NationStates Jolt Archive

To start I am an Athiest by choice. I will not explain my reasoning. I just am.
The Question I have is this.

Can't we just leave each other alone in are beliefs. Is it nessecery to force beliefs upon each other. I don't pin this on any specific group, all are guilty of it. I would like to hear everyones OPINION on this. No arguments please just a friendly exchange of ideas on how to get along with each other with out killing each other.

Religion are for sissies... You're probably the small, frail kids who gets beaten up in school. Noone wants to help you, so you get this imaginary friend, which you at some point decides to name God. Now you have a jolly old friend, but that's just another reason for people to throw stuff at you!

EDIT: To answer your question, I would say that it's in our blood. We need an enemy, and we don't care who it is... Catholics, muslims, buddhists... We all want to wage war on another.

People tend (to try) to force their beliefs on others when they believe what others are doing is wrong. Almost everyone with some sense of right and wrong would include among their lists of wrongs 'letting something wrong take place'. If someone believes that, for example, killing innocent people against their will is wrong, and that letting a wrong take place is wrong, then they wouldn't stand by idly while cult leaders sacrificed children to their gods. The logic above applies to the majority of humanity.

Unfortunately one of the tenets of Christianity and Mohammedianity (in light of the recent cartoon issue I am renaming Islam) is that the religion should be spread across the world to all unbelievers.

Unfortunately one of the tenets of Christianity and Mohammedianity (in light of the recent cartoon issue I am renaming Islam) is that the religion should be spread across the world to all unbelievers.

Ok These God's Give us free will but tell us to believe in what they say. Does this not sound kinda a dumb way to go about things. If you want someone to blindly follow don't give them free will.

To start I am an Athiest by choice. I will not explain my reasoning. I just am.
The Question I have is this.

Can't we just leave each other alone in are beliefs. Is it nessecery to force beliefs upon each other. I don't pin this on any specific group, all are guilty of it. I would like to hear everyones OPINION on this. No arguments please just a friendly exchange of ideas on how to get along with each other with out killing each other.

The was I see it, I have a lot more athiests trying to save me from stupidity of believing in something that, based on our flawed five senses, does not exist. They try to explain to me that I am a sheep, and a tool of a huge organization, and obviously a member of the unenlightend, and unwashed, mass of ingnorance. They try and tell me I am what is wrong with this country, and that it is us who are leading our world off a cliff into the apocolypse.

Me, I just want to raise my family, be good and faithful to a God that I can not see, hear, smell, taste, or touch, but believe in nonetheless because of the good I see it doing my family. I don't care at all if others do not believe.

That's all

The was I see it, I have a lot more athiests trying to save me from stupidity of believing in something that, based on our flawed five senses, does not exist. They try to explain to me that I am a sheep, and a tool of a huge organization, and obviously a member of the unenlightend, and unwashed, mass of ingnorance. They try and tell me I am what is wrong with this country, and that it is us who are leading our world off a cliff into the apocolypse.

Me, I just want to raise my family, be good and faithful to a God that I can not see, hear, smell, taste, or touch, but believe in nonetheless because of the good I see it doing my family. I don't care at all if others do not believe.

That's all
I appluad you. It is your right to have your beliefs. As i said i don't pick any groups out. All are guilty of forceing there beliefs. No one should force there way of thinking on any one else.

Religion is great, its a wonderful thing. I happen to be an atheist. But religion has given us, I believe, the original concept of morality. Unfortunately, certain people think that their ideas are so great that everyone should believe them. Just look at the US - Democracy's great here, so let's force it down EVERYONE'S throats!! Or communism, or the internal combustion engine, or free long distance calling, or anything. We all take pride in our ideas and on some level want to spread them. That's why we're on this forum.

So in answer, no, we cannot get along, and the problem is our pride.

So in answer, no, we cannot get along, and the problem is our pride.


Execellent answer

A good analogy is this;

a man pays 200 pounds for acupuncture to cure his cold.
he spends a weeks hard earned cash on this treatment and cant go to the pub on friday...his mates ask him where he was on friday and he says getting acupuncure, his freinds laugh at him for spending a weeks wages to have needles stuck in him, he replies "of course it works, im feeling better allready i think its amazing"
i believe that religion is for the idealogicly insecure. you are unique and vunerable with your own strong views.

Because religous people are the only people with the sight to realise the plight good people like yourself are in. And before you say it, it IS possible to be good and not religous and I used to be an Atheist so I know what it's like. We try to convert people, because anyone I have "converted" (I don't like using the word) will agree their lives - and their afterlives - have improved greatly.

Because religous people are the only people with the sight to realise the plight good people like yourself are in.

Here is a reason people argue and fight. This is the i am better then everyone else defense.

this is how i see it; beyond my own confusion with god and religion i am an atheist. i have my reasons, but this is what i know. every religion has the same basic principles such as be nice to people, don't steal, kill, and sleep with your buddy's wife/husband. the main source of conflict is whose imaginary friend is better. its a classic case of good ideas becoming beliefs and that is when things get messy. you can change an idea when a new or better one comes along(every one thought that the world being flat was a good idea until they were proven wrong.) its much harder to change your beliefs in something and that is what usually starts wars, crusades and general unpleasantries. this is my advic; stick with what you feel is right and good and if some day we find that there really is a god then you'll be all set. if not, then at least you were a good person and made the world around you a little better.

While there certainly is a great deal of unwarranted evangelizing in society, I think the major problem is that many people just can't stand to listen to other's opinions.

Can't we just leave each other alone in [our] beliefs.

Most of us do.

STOP!

Religion IS NOT the only group that forces it's beliefs upon others! Many people on this board are trying to show religion as evil, as a propaganda machine. Realistically though all peoples do this, all ideological viewpoints have their agendas and purposes. Why do we try to convince people of our beliefs? Why do you tell the man on the bridge not to jump just yet? You convince them to help them despite them not understanding. You do it because you want the best for them, and, like a mother, you want the best even if they do not know what is best for themselves. That is why we preach, whine, complain, yell, debate, and argue. We do it for each other, to teach the truth that each of us knows. Why do we feel the need to do this? Probably because of our humanity.

- Veritas

STOP!

Religion IS NOT the only group that forces it's beliefs upon others!

- Veritas
If youll note i never said they were the only group i said every group even athiest try to push there views on to everyone else

I think atheism is a system of belief dedicated to it's own sense of smug superiority.

Not believing in God doesn't make you smarter.

I think atheism is a system of belief dedicated to it's own sense of smug superiority.


Please do not bash others belifes here this is a discussion on finding out why people push there beliefs on to others. Not what beleife is better then another.

Honestly, I've never met an atheist who was both open minded and intelligent.

Most of the kids here have an argument that ammount to "LOL, GOD IS SILLY,"

Honestly, I've never met an atheist who was both open minded and intelligent.

Most of the kids here have an argument that ammount to "LOL, GOD IS SILLY,"

I am an athiest and reguard my self as both open minded and intelligent. I don't think belief in God is silly. Now you have met a open minded and intelligent athiest. Please do not bash others beliefs and stick to the topic.

I am an athiest and reguard my self as both open minded and intelligent. I don't think belief in God is silly. Now you have met a open minded and intelligent athiest. Please do not bash others beliefs and stick to the topic.
You're the first.

As far as it goes, I'm only defensive about my faith when it's prodded at by others, and more times than not those others are the "GOD IS SILLY" type atheists.

To start I am an Athiest by choice. I will not explain my reasoning. I just am.
The Question I have is this.

Can't we just leave each other alone in are beliefs. Is it nessecery to force beliefs upon each other. I don't pin this on any specific group, all are guilty of it. I would like to hear everyones OPINION on this. No arguments please just a friendly exchange of ideas on how to get along with each other with out killing each other.
My opinion is that some people have a hard time with statements of belief that are worded as fact, even though that is the proper means of portraying beliefs. They seem to have no concept of the difference between an objective statement and what is a subjective opinion portrayed as an objective statement. So they are seen as being "forcing" to believe what is deemed a fact, when in fact it is a belief.

As far as it goes, I'm only defensive about my faith when it's prodded at by others, and more times than not those others are the "GOD IS SILLY" type atheists.

I will agree often the most noticed speaker for a group is often the one that should keep there mouth shut.

To start I am an Athiest by choice. I will not explain my reasoning. I just am.
The Question I have is this.

Can't we just leave each other alone in are beliefs. Is it nessecery to force beliefs upon each other. I don't pin this on any specific group, all are guilty of it. I would like to hear everyones OPINION on this. No arguments please just a friendly exchange of ideas on how to get along with each other with out killing each other.

Well in my view there are two types of religious discussions on this forum, and neither of them fit what you say.

No one here "forces" their views onto anyone else. What there is is debate. This debate takes two forms. Firstly the person who explains what their religion is about or their point of view is about and then people question it, and they answer the questions and then people ask questions regarding the answer and so on and so on. The other sort is the nastier sort, where one person of one religion states their reason why they think another religion is wrong/bad and debate ensues.

My opinion is that some people have a hard time with statements of belief that are worded as fact, even though that is the proper means of portraying beliefs. They seem to have no concept of the difference between an objective statement and what is a subjective opinion portrayed as an objective statement. So they are seen as being "forcing" to believe what is deemed a fact, when in fact it is a belief.


Excellent line of reasoning.

This brings up and old phrase i like.

"There is always three sides to any situation. My side, your side and the truth."

god(any god, but specially the christian god) is Santa Claus for the grown ups

Here's how I see it:

I'd rather live my life believing in God and find out that it doesn't exist, rather than not believing in God and find out that it all does exist.

I heard that somewhere, or probably read it, but the very quote just struck true with me. At least if I were wrong, I'd simply cease to be. If I'm right, then by God, I'm where I want to be.

Honestly, I've never met an atheist who was both open minded and intelligent.
Are you certain that none of the open-minded and intelligent people you met are atheists? I would have though that most intelligent atheists will realise that there's little point aguing about the existence (or otherwise) of god, so unless you specifically ask them if they believe in god then you won't find out.

Here's how I see it:

I'd rather live my life believing in God and find out that it doesn't exist, rather than not believing in God and find out that it all does exist.

I heard that somewhere, or probably read it, but the very quote just struck true with me. At least if I were wrong, I'd simply cease to be. If I'm right, then by God, I'm where I want to be.
Unless you've picked the wrong god, in which case you might end up spending all eternity in hell. Pascal's Wager is a flawed argument.

Unless you've picked the wrong god, in which case you might end up spending all eternity in hell. Pascal's Wager is a flawed argument.

That makes me wonder...

If the general belief of the location of heaven is upward, then why is hell in an absolute domain, such as below the crust of Earth?

If the general belief of the location of heaven is upward, then why is hell in an absolute domain, such as below the crust of Earth?
That's called a prescientific belief. Now we know that the Earth is a sphere, stars are just other suns and that the universe looks very similar everywhere, most religious people believe in a transcendental Heaven and Hell.

Are you certain that none of the open-minded and intelligent people you met are atheists? I would have though that most intelligent atheists will realise that there's little point aguing about the existence (or otherwise) of god, so unless you specifically ask them if they believe in god then you won't find out.

Personally i usually don't go around flaunting my belief but for this thread i wanted everyone to know upfront so i can't say im hiding anything.

Are you certain that none of the open-minded and intelligent people you met are atheists? I would have though that most intelligent atheists will realise that there's little point aguing about the existence (or otherwise) of god, so unless you specifically ask them if they believe in god then you won't find out.


An excellent point indeed. Most intelligent, level headed, mature individuals don't discuss religion, regardless of their faith or lack there of. I believe it is the fanatics and attention seekers (who are usually promoting something for their own benefit) are the ones that we read about in the paper or pass on the street pushing their "truth".

Alot of people realize how small the world is becoming, and that there are people of other cultural backgrounds around every corner. Many people are beginning to realize that a certain amount of respect is required for us all to live here together.

hmmm... it seems that I have converted into an optimist...

An excellent point indeed. Most intelligent, level headed, mature individuals don't discuss religion, regardless of their faith or lack there of. I believe it is the fanatics and attention seekers (who are usually promoting something for their own benefit) are the ones that we read about in the paper or pass on the street pushing their "truth".

Alot of people realize how small the world is becoming, and that there are people of other cultural backgrounds around every corner. Many people are beginning to realize that a certain amount of respect is required for us all to live here together.

hmmm... it seems that I have converted into an optimist...

I have no problems with level headed discussions or debates on religion. It is the fanatics and attention seekers that have a tendency to cause the major problems.

I really do try to leave people alone unless they approach me about it.

oh I agree. It just seems that everytime there is a discussion, it leads to a full blown fight.

I would call myself a nontheist. I currently attend a catholic college, and let me just say that the discussion groups usually leave me in a corner by my self. lol.:headbang: