NationStates Jolt Archive


Does anyone actually call themselves a "theistic agnostic"?

Vegas-Rex
15-02-2006, 00:53
This has been argued about repeatedly, but I've never seen it with a thread of its own. It's basically an issue of definitions, and what it boils down to is this: does atheist mean lack of belief in a deity, or active disbelief in a deity? Where do agnostics fit in?

The two major camps on this issue are, as far as I've seen, these:

1. Atheist means lack of belief in a deity. You either believe or you don't believe, even if you're agnostic. Agnostics either believe in a god or don't, they simply aren't sure their side is correct. They are classified as either theistic agnostics or atheistic agnostics.

2. Atheist means disbelief in a deity. As such, agnostic is a separate category, neither theistic nor atheistic.

Thrown into this is another classification system, one for atheists. It classifies atheists as either explicit (I.E., active disbelief independent of evidence) or implicit, which can probably best be described as making an educated guess based on general trends that there isn't a deity. Such an atheist would be swayed if someone could manage to find actual evidence of a deity, but only then.

The question is, where in this system do agnostics fit in? Are they simply another word for implicit atheist? Is there a difference? And can someone be an atheistic/theistic agnostic, or is agnostic a separate category? Futhermore, the subject of the attached poll: does anyone actually classify themselves in either of those categories?

I would guess that they do not, as agnostics usually consider themselves agnostic so as to not be considered either an atheist or a theist. Anyway, here's my solution:

THE SOLUTION: break the field up into three categories.
1. Explicit Atheist: has faith in the nonexistence of gods.
2. Implicit Atheist: makes the educated guess that there are no gods based on their understanding of the universe.
3. Agnostic: does not feel they have enough information to make an educated guess.

Three clearly differentiated categories. Now, we can hopefully avoid hijacking other people's threads to argue about this.
Vegas-Rex
15-02-2006, 01:34
7 people vote but no-one responds? Even the person who I predicted would not exist? People argue about this stuff all the time in other threads, it's amusing that when there actually is a thread dedicated to this no-one posts.

Anyway...BUMP!
Kzord
15-02-2006, 01:42
I'll post since I don't understand the poll. Anyway, judging by your descriptions, "implicit atheist" is the best description for me.
Vegas-Rex
15-02-2006, 01:56
I'll post since I don't understand the poll. Anyway, judging by your descriptions, "implicit atheist" is the best description for me.

The poll is about which terms you use based on which category you're in. It's my hypothesis that the people who use terms like "theistic/atheistic agnostic" are mostly atheists trying to get agnostics to choose a side, and as such those terms aren't really a good way of categorizing people as they don't represent what they think they are. I'm trying to collaborate a system that people won't have to constantly hijack threads to argue over.
Rangerville
15-02-2006, 02:00
I'm an Agnostic, and that's the only term i use. I don't know if i believe in God, there is no concrete evidence either way, so i'm on the fence about the whole thing. I consider myself to be part skeptic and part believer when it comes to most things.
Vegas-Rex
15-02-2006, 02:17
I'm an Agnostic, and that's the only term i use. I don't know if i believe in God, there is no concrete evidence either way, so i'm on the fence about the whole thing. I consider myself to be part skeptic and part believer when it comes to most things.

That's why I think the terms "theistic agnostic" and "atheistic agnostic" aren't useful: most agnostics think of themselves as neutral, not part of one side or the other.