NationStates Jolt Archive

I was watching Lou Dobbs' program on CNN yesterday and he covered a summit held by Mexican groups, representatives of the Mexican government, and others who wish to promote illegal immigration into the US. Among these groups were people who want to take over the US Southwest claiming that it belongs to Mexico, and groups that advocated all people of European descent leaving the continent.

The funny thing is that they had no problem with calling the people opposed to illegal immigration racists, yet they didn't feel that calling for Europeans to leave was racist at all. It seems to me, especially if you listen to such sources as Voz de Aztlan, that there is some serious racism among Mexicans directed against people of European descent.

Below is a transcript of the Lou Dobbs report on the summit.

DOBBS: Tonight, this nation's open border movement has found itself some new friends. These border security opponents joined forces this weekend with their Mexican government counterparts at a rally in California. They even won the support of a high-ranking Mexican government official who decided to make the trip across the border.

Casey Wian reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Latino groups from both sides of the U.S. Mexico border held a summit to demonstrate opposition to the Sensenbrenner security border security legislation. Organizer Armando Navarro began by quoting Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, prediction a socialist revolution stretching from the tip of South America to northern Canada.

Then came a procession of open borders activists, including the Brown Berets and MEChA, the radical Latino college group that advocates returning the American Southwest to Mexico. "We are a community without borders," says this Chicago activist.

There were signs proclaiming North America a stolen continent and saying all of those of European descent here are the real illegal aliens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not their land. This is not their continent. This is our continent.

WIAN: Even the conference program said it was being held in Riverside California, Aztlan, the name given to the American Southwest by those who claim it rightfully belongs to Mexico. So it was no surprise that Mexican state senator Raymundo Cardenas attended to demonstrate Mexico's opposition to the Sensenbrenner bill. It calls for tougher criminal penalties against illegal aliens and their employers, and for a wall along 700 miles of the Southwest border.

Mexico plans to send an official anti-Sensenbrenner delegation to Washington this week.

The speaker of California's state assembly also chimed in through a videotaped message.

FABIEN NUNEZ, CALIFORNIA ASSEMBLY SPEAKER: I'm honored to fight against the Sensenbrenner approach to immigration policy. This legislation is a flashback to those failed polarizing policies of the past.

WIAN: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT even made the summit agenda thanks to a group of open borders advocates now caravaning from Tijuana to Washington, D.C.

ALEJANDRO HAMADA, GENTE UNIDA: They will be in Atlanta protesting before the CNN studios, the Lou Dobbs racist program that they have there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey...

UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Ho, ho...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lou Dobbs...

UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: ... has got to go.

WIAN: And here they are protesting in Atlanta, even though the program originates from New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT is in good company. Open borders advocates have also announced a boycott of Wisconsin cheese because Wisconsin is the home state of Congressman Sensenbrenner, chief sponsor of the border security bill -- Lou.

DOBBS: This is extraordinary. This is taking on quite a, if you will, a racist tone, suggesting that -- making a delineation between Europeans and Hispanics. This kind of language is remarkable. WIAN: It really is, considering the fact that a lot these open border activists call the Sensenbrenner border security bill and any other effort to tighten border security racist, yet they're saying all Europeans should -- or all people of European descent should go back to Europe.

DOBBS: It's remarkable, and it is probably helpful to the public to understand the impulses that are at work here with these open border activists, whether it be Aztlan, MEChA, whatever the group might be. Many of them with extraordinarily close ties, if not direct links, to the Mexican government.

WIAN: Lots of messages from these groups. Lots of scary messages. The one thing is, they're not very unified.

They -- a lot of them are calling for simply relaxing immigration laws, many others are calling for no borders. So I guess as long as there's so disjointed, they may not be as big a threat -- Lou.

DOBBS: Casey Wian, we thank you, sir.

Well they're right about the Soutwest. It was forcibly annexed. It wasn't a sale or a fair exchange. Mexico has a claim to that area.

As to European descendants leaving the continent, that's just stupid. And racist.

Well they're right about the Soutwest. It was forcibly annexed. It wasn't a sale or a fair exchange. Mexico has a claim to that area.

As to European descendants leaving the continent, that's just stupid. And racist.
Considering that Mexicans themselves are mostly of European decent...out with all of you bastards! Only the aboriginals get to stay!:D

Considering that Mexicans themselves are mostly of European decent...out with all of you bastards! Only the aboriginals get to stay!:D
Well at least that makes some sense. Most Mexicans, AFAIK, are mixed European and aboriginal.

Oh, and the Voz de Azatlan is a huge proponent of La Reconquista...the reconquest...which is a very extreme view. Take their 'appeal' with a grain of salt. They by no means represent the majority of latinos.

Now tht's funny. You find me a Mexican without european heritage in their genes and I'll find you a magical three-toed leprechan and we'll cross-breed them. :p

Unless in their fragile little minds they don't consider Spanish conquistadores to be European.

Here's a silly question; What language were they ranting in? Spanish, maybe? :p

Don't you know how PCness works? You can't be racist against the majority. If a white man complains about any racism against him, he's a whiner. If a black man complains, there's protests and boycotts. If a muslim complains, there's riots and murderous mobs. that's how PCness works. People ignore the Christain white man who knows English, unless he's a criminal.

Oh, and the Voz de Azatlan is a huge proponent of La Reconquista...the reconquest...which is a very extreme view. Take their 'appeal' with a grain of salt. They by no means represent the majority of latinos.
:mp5:
I can see that plan of action working...
yeahh.. I think Chuck Norris, Mr. T and Steven Seagal handeling that problem quite handidly with a blow torch, a junkyard, a few guns and a musical montage....

Doesn't it dawn on them that they are descendent from the original European invaders, the Spanish?

They called those of European descent "illegal aliens," which in a sense they are. I don't see any demand for them to leave.

A continental socialist revolution with open borders and indigenous rights.... I would fight for that.

They called those of European descent "illegal aliens," which in a sense they are. I don't see any demand for them to leave.

A continental socialist revolution with open borders and indigenous rights.... I would fight for that.
Lou disagrees with you.

yet they're saying all Europeans should -- or all people of European descent should go back to Europe.

Lou disagrees with you.

Apparently. I didn't see anything in the report that suggested it, though.

I think he's engaging in an unjustified extension of the "aliens" statement.

I think they meant for white people to leave. Which is a good idea, I think. Yes, all white people leave the Southwest, give it back to Mexico, and watch it all go to shit, because the Mexican government is corrupt, and their citizens for the most part are semi-literate ignoramuses suitable only for cheap labor.

Apparently. I didn't see anything in the report that suggested it, though.

I think he's engaging in an unjustified extension of the "aliens" statement.
Who knows. I couldn't find an actual transcript of the summit on the web. I looked for a couple of minutes and got only one news story covering it. Not the Lou Dobbs one.

I think they meant for white people to leave. Which is a good idea, I think. Yes, all white people leave the Southwest, give it back to Mexico, and watch it all go to shit, because the Mexican government is corrupt, and their citizens for the most part are semi-literate ignoramuses suitable only for cheap labor.
Hooray for racism disguised as...um...ethinicly based-stereotypes? No, no...um...disguised as nationally-based generalisations? No, no...um...oh wait...it isn't disguised at all.

Has anyone seen the video of Mexican military troops crossing the US border to guard drug shipments?

Here's a story about the illegal border crossings by Mexican soldiers.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0203incursions0203.html

What can you say?
Racists are everywhere, those damn bastards (nothing personal, but I am personal)

Doesn't it dawn on them that they are descendent from the original European invaders, the Spanish?
Nonetheless, latinos generally consider themselves to be a separate 'race'. "La Raza" refers to this, a mestizo people, with mixed European, aboriginal, and African blood. They are no more 'Spanish' as in from Spain than Phillipinos are...despite the fact that both latinos, and many filipinos have Spanish last names.

Hooray for racism disguised as...um...ethinicly based-stereotypes? No, no...um...disguised as nationally-based generalisations? No, no...um...oh wait...it isn't disguised at all.
Well, there's nothing wrong with racism as long as it's not directed at me. :)


Just kidding. Dubya's being a dick.

Well it was Mexican territory, and thatis what America is afraid of. That more Latin or Mexican people arrive in that area, Mexico will just take it over again.

Hooray for racism disguised as...um...ethinicly based-stereotypes? No, no...um...disguised as nationally-based generalisations? No, no...um...oh wait...it isn't disguised at all.

I'm not racist against Mexicans. Give them some good education and proper nutrition and they'll be fine. Unfortunately, most of them have neither right now, which is why they are good only for cheap labor.

Well it was Mexican territory, and thatis what America is afraid of. That more Latin or Mexican people arrive in that area, Mexico will just take it over again.
I suppose you think we should just give up territory that we've controlled for over a hundred years then? Maybe those US citizens born there should just say goodbye to their US citizenship and be content with the corruption and poverty that comes with Mexican citizenship?

I suppose you think we should just give up territory that we've controlled for over a hundred years then?
Sure...we could always create an 'USian homeland' somewhere...like maybe in the middle of Africa...

Sure...we could always create an 'USian homeland' somewhere...like maybe in the middle of Africa...
Why the middle? How about in Nigeria. They've got oil. We like oil. It's perfect.

I'm not racist against Mexicans. Give them some good education and proper nutrition and they'll be fine. Unfortunately, most of them have neither right now, which is why they are good only for cheap labor.

No one is "good" for cheap labor.

I'm not racist against Mexicans. Give them some good education and proper nutrition and they'll be fine. Unfortunately, most of them have neither right now, which is why they are good only for cheap labor.
You have to admit...this is a much better way to get your point across, though I'd change 'are good for' to 'only end up being'.

You have to admit...this is a much better way to get your point across, though I'd change 'are good for' to 'only end up being'.

Point taken.

No one is "good" for cheap labor.

They sure as hell aren't good for medical or law schools. Thus they end up being good for cheap labor. It will take a generation or two until they get educated like every other immigrant group in America for them to be "good" for the more intellectually stimulating professions.

They sure as hell aren't good for medical or law schools. Thus they end up being good for cheap labor. It will take a generation or two until they get educated like every other immigrant group in America for them to be "good" for the more intellectually stimulating professions.

And I repeat: no one is "good" for cheap labor.

It is perhaps true that some of them lack the capability to perform most forms of skilled labor. Unskilled labor, however, need not be - and should not be - "cheap labor."

Oh no, Mexicans are racist!




1. Everyone's racist.
2. I'd be racist too if people called me spic and beaner all day.

Oh no, Mexicans are racist!




1. Everyone's racist.
2. I'd be racist too if people called me spic and beaner all day.
It's just that if a white person or group makes a racist statement the whole world instantly knows about it and condemns it. If anyone else makes a racist statement it's hardly addressed at all. That's discrimination and discrimination is wrong.

Now I know that there aren't businesses with signs in the windows saying "Crackers need not apply", but still if you're going to be against racism you should be against racism regardless of who's the racist and who's the victim.

Having said that, let me post this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Song: Everyone's A Little Bit Racist Lyrics



Both:
Everyone's a little bit racist
Sometimes.
Doesn't mean we go
Around committing hate crimes.
Look around and you will find
No one's really color blind.
Maybe it's a fact
We all should face
Everyone makes judgments
Based on race.

Princeton:
Now not big judgments, like who to hire
or who to buy a newspaper from -

Kate Monster:
No!

Princeton:
No, just little judgments like thinking that Mexican
busboys should learn to speak goddamn English!

Kate Monster:
Right!

Both:
Everyone's a little bit racist
Today.
So, everyone's a little bit racist
Okay!
Ethinic jokes might be uncouth,
But you laugh because
They're based on truth.
Don't take them as
Personal attacks.
Everyone enjoys them -
So relax!

Princeton:
All right, stop me if you've heard this one.

Kate Monster:
Okay!

Princeton:
There's a plan going down and there's only
one paracute. And there's a rabbi, a priest...

Kate Monster:
And a black guy!

Gary Coleman:
Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Kate?

Kate Monster:
Uh...

Gary Coleman:
You were telling a black joke!

Princeton:
Well, sure, Gary, but lots of people tell black jokes.

Gary Coleman:
I don't.

Princeton:
Well, of course you don't - you're black!
But I bet you tell Polack jokes, right?

Gary Coleman:
Well, sure I do. Those stupid Polacks!

Princeton:
Now, don't you think that's a little racist?

Gary Coleman:
Well, damn, I guess you're right.

Kate Monster:
You're a little bit racist.

Gary Coleman:
Well, you're a little bit too.

Princeton:
We're all a little bit racist.

Gary Coleman:
I think that I would
Have to agree with you.

Princeton/Kate Monster:
We're glad you do.

Gary Coleman:
It's sad but true!
Everyone's a little bit racist -

All right!

Kate Monster:
All right!

Princeton:
All right!

Gary Coleman:
All right!
Bigotry has never been
Exclusively white

All:
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
Even though we all know
That it's wrong,
Maybe it would help us
Get along.

Princeton:
Oh, Christ do I feel good.

Gary Coleman:
Now there was a fine upstanding black man!

Princeton:
Who?

Gary Coleman:
Jesus Christ.

Kate Monster:
But, Gary, Jesus was white.

Gary Coleman:
No, Jesus was black.

Kate Monster:
No, Jesus was white.

Gary Coleman:
No, I'm pretty sure that Jesus was black-

Princeton:
Guys, guys...Jesus was Jewish!

Brian:
Hey guys, what are you laughing about?

Gary Coleman:
Racism!

Brian:
Cool.

Christmas Eve:
BRIAN! Come back here!
You take out lecycuraburs!

Princeton:
What's that mean?

Brian:
Um, recyclables.
Hey, don't laugh at her!
How many languages do you speak?

Kate Monster:
Oh, come off it, Brian!
Everyone's a little bit racist.

Brian:
I'm not!

Princeton:
Oh no?

Brian:
Nope!

How many Oriental wives
Have you got?

Christmas Eve:
What? Brian!

Princeton:
Brian, buddy, where you been?
The term is Asian-American!

Christmas Eve:
I know you are no
Intending to be
But calling me Oriental -
Offensive to me!

Brian:
I'm sorry, honey, I love you.

Christmas Eve:
And I love you.

Brian:
But you're racist, too.

Christmas Eve:
Yes, I know.
The Jews have all
The money
And the whites have all
The power.
And I'm always in taxi-cab
With driver who no shower!

Princeton:
Me too!

Kate Monster:
Me too!

Gary Coleman:
I can't even get a taxi!

All:
Everyone's a little bit racist
It's true.
But everyone is just about
As racist as you!
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
And everyone stopped being
So PC
Maybe we could live in -
Harmony!

Christmas Eve:
Evlyone's a ritter bit lacist!

those assholes should make their country better instead of makin ours worse just cuz there women are sluts and are too busy :fluffle: and makin babies that fill the streets with homelessness

those assholes should make their country better instead of makin ours worse just cuz there women are sluts and are too busy :fluffle: and makin babies that fill the streets with homelessness
I don't know where to start, so I'll just ask you to stop.

It's just that if a white person or group makes a racist statement the whole world instantly knows about it and condemns it. If anyone else makes a racist statement it's hardly addressed at all.
Really? Because when David Ahenakew ( http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/07/08/ahenakew050708.html), a First Nations man, made racist statements about Jews, not only did it become front page news, but he ended being convicted of a hate crime. We constantly hear about Farrakhan's 'reverse racism'...and people complain ALL THE TIME about 'reverse racism', (I just wish they'd call it racism...calling it reverse racism is like saying it's not racism...like using inflammable to mean flammable) often using it to justify their own racism.

I think they meant for white people to leave. Which is a good idea, I think. Yes, all white people leave the Southwest, give it back to Mexico, and watch it all go to shit, because the Mexican government is corrupt, and their citizens for the most part are semi-literate ignoramuses suitable only for cheap labor.

I'm glad we cleared up that racism issue.

I don't know where to start, so I'll just ask you to stop.
you know it's true. those idiots are too lazy to fix their own country and make our bussinessmen greedy assholes that work them to the bone

Really? Because when David Ahenakew ( http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/07/08/ahenakew050708.html), a First Nations man, made racist statements about Jews, not only did it become front page news, but he ended being convicted of a hate crime. We constantly hear about Farrakhan's 'reverse racism'...and people complain ALL THE TIME about 'reverse racism', (I just wish they'd call it racism...calling it reverse racism is like saying it's not racism...like using inflammable to mean flammable) often using it to justify their own racism.
I'll give you Farrakhan, but that Ahenakew guy? I've never heard of him. I'll bet if I ask most people around my home town all I'll get are puzzled looks. Meanwhile if I ask why Jimmy the Greek was fired from his network TV sports thing I'm sure quite a few people will remember his statement about how Black atheletes have an advantage because the slave-master would breed the strongest slaves for the fields.

Impowerment. The OP has asked you to cease and desist with your racist comments. What you are doing is flame baiting, and agains the ToS.

It's just that if a white person or group makes a racist statement the whole world instantly knows about it and condemns it. If anyone else makes a racist statement it's hardly addressed at all. That's discrimination and discrimination is wrong.

Now I know that there aren't businesses with signs in the windows saying "Crackers need not apply", but still if you're going to be against racism you should be against racism regardless of who's the racist and who's the victim.

Having said that, let me post this.

Bulllshit.

When Nagin made his "chocolate city" comment, it was world-wide news.

Perhaps you should check the tint of your glasses.

Well they're right about the Soutwest. It was forcibly annexed. It wasn't a sale or a fair exchange. Mexico has a claim to that area.

As to European descendants leaving the continent, that's just stupid. And racist.
If mexico wasnt a bitch and actually had an army they could try to fight the us for the land back but they wouldn't win. Its like if a bully steals your lunch money, if you try to take it back you get your ass beat, its teh same way for mexico, they need to know there role, as well as all those damm taco stuffers.

you know it's true. those idiots are too lazy to fix their own country and make our bussinessmen greedy assholes that work them to the bone
1) They can't fix their own country. Their governemnt is corrupt and willing to use force to preserve it's power.

2) Nobody made our businessmen greedy assholes. They've always been greedy assholes.

Bulllshit.

When Nagin made his "chocolate city" comment, it was world-wide news.

Perhaps you should check the tint of your glasses.
Yeah, I guess you're right on that.

I'll give you Farrakhan, but that Ahenakew guy? I've never heard of him. I'll bet if I ask most people around my home town all I'll get are puzzled looks. That would be because he's Canadian...most Canadians will remember the story.


Meanwhile if I ask why Jimmy the Greek was fired from his network TV sports thing I'm sure quite a few people will remember his statement about how Black atheletes have an advantage because the slave-master would breed the strongest slaves for the fields.Jimmy the who? Never heard of him. I guess some stories are country specific.

If mexico wasnt a bitch and actually had an army they could try to fight the us for the land back but they wouldn't win. Its like if a bully steals your lunch money, if you try to take it back you get your ass beat, its teh same way for mexico, they need to know there role, as well as all those damm taco stuffers.
Either the racists are coming out of the woodwork on this one, or it's the same person using multiple puppets.

Yeah, I guess you're right on that.
You know what I tend to notice, personally? Racist jokes about natives. You know what a black person is likely to notice? Racist comments about blacks. The same goes for everyone. Things that apply to you get your attention more than things that apply to someone else. That doesn't necessarily mean what you are noticing happens MORE. It's just how you see things.

You know what I tend to notice, personally? Racist jokes about natives. You know what a black person is likely to notice? Racist comments about blacks. The same goes for everyone. Things that apply to you get your attention more than things that apply to someone else. That doesn't necessarily mean what you are noticing happens MORE. It's just how you see things.
You're probably right. The jokes don't usually bother me though. It's the humorless racism that bothers me.

I was watching Lou Dobbs' program on CNN yesterday and he covered a summit held by Mexican groups, representatives of the Mexican government, and others who wish to promote illegal immigration into the US. Among these groups were people who want to take over the US Southwest claiming that it belongs to Mexico, and groups that advocated all people of European descent leaving the continent.

The funny thing is that they had no problem with calling the people opposed to illegal immigration racists, yet they didn't feel that calling for Europeans to leave was racist at all. It seems to me, especially if you listen to such sources as Voz de Aztlan, that there is some serious racism among Mexicans directed against people of European descent.

Below is a transcript of the Lou Dobbs report on the summit.

Is that the entire Lou Dobbs report?

Nothing in it is evidence of the racism other than Lou saying it is.

Is that the entire Lou Dobbs report?

Nothing in it is evidence of the racism other than Lou saying it is.
That's the only part relevant to this discussion. I happen to trust Lou.

You're probably right. The jokes don't usually bother me though. It's the humorless racism that bothers me.
Says the man who enjoys dead baby jokes.

One person's humour is another's....not humour.

That's the only part relevant to this discussion. I happen to trust Lou.

Who the hell is Lou? Would you trust him alone with your girlfriend? While she was passed out, and he pumped full of Viagra? Huh? Huh? Would you?

Says the man who enjoys dead baby jokes.

One person's humour is another's....not humour.
That's the thing. I enjoy all jokes. Racist, sexist, homophobic, disgusting, whatever, they're all good as long as they're funny (to me). Racism on it's own is just ugly.

Who the hell is Lou? Would you trust him alone with your girlfriend? While she was passed out, and he pumped full of Viagra? Huh? Huh? Would you?
Lou is the TV news guy with balls. He's not worried about being PC, he's not worried about criticizing the administration (even when their approval ratings were high) and he actually seems to care about the American people.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/dobbs.lou.html

Lou is the TV news guy with balls. You avoided my more important question. Would you trust those Viagra engorged balls with your passed out girlfriend?

You avoided my more important question. Would you trust those Viagra engorged balls with your passed out girlfriend?
Sure. I trust him. I get the impression that he's a guy who tries to do the right thing.

Sure. I trust him. I get the impression that he's a guy who tries to do the right thing.
Alright then. Pointless point proved. Moving on now.

I'm on serious cold medication. Just ignore me:)

Alright then. Pointless point proved. Moving on now.

I'm on serious cold medication. Just ignore me:)
Nice! Is it that cool prescription kind with the nice floaty feelings or is it that really trippy store bought kind?

Nice! Is it that cool prescription kind with the nice floaty feelings or is it that really trippy store bought kind?

Actually, it's a pine gum remedy my aunt makes. I've been drinking pine resin tea, and have pine resin unguent smeared on my chest and throat, and I'm chewing pine gum. I smell like Lysol, which is getting me a lot of weird looks, consider I'm native, and there's the stereotype about drinking lysol...yeah, anyway. It is pretty potent stuff...and makes your head all floaty and weird...but that could be the overwhelming smell more than anything...:) Anyway. It works. Maybe it's because I end up hating the smell so much, I force myself to get better.

And I repeat: no one is "good" for cheap labor.

It is perhaps true that some of them lack the capability to perform most forms of skilled labor. Unskilled labor, however, need not be - and should not be - "cheap labor."

Are you suggesting that the streetsweeper be payed the same amount as the doctor? By "cheap labor" I mean minimum wage labor with minimum health benefits and such because in every society there has to be a minimum, unless it's in a Communist society, in which case the minimum is disguised behind mind-numbing propaganda.

Are you suggesting that the streetsweeper be payed the same amount as the doctor? By "cheap labor" I mean minimum wage labor with minimum health benefits and such because in every society there has to be a minimum, unless it's in a Communist society, in which case the minimum is disguised behind mind-numbing propaganda.

I'm suggesting you stop while you are behind. You just keep digging the hole deeper.

There are Mexican doctors. And there are Mexican doctors just as skilled as U.S. doctors.

I'm suggesting you stop while you are behind. You just keep digging the hole deeper.

There are Mexican doctors. And there are Mexican doctors just as skilled as U.S. doctors.
First of all, this was a response to another completely different topic.

Secondly, The U.S. has the best health care facilities in the world, and our pharmaceutical companies invent all kinds of new and wonderful drugs to combat disease. Are there Mexican doctors as skilled as US. doctors? Absolutely. Are the best Mexican doctors as skilled as the best US doctors? Not by a long shot. Does Mexico have the best doctors? Not at all. The same goes for lawyers, engineers, entrepenuers, teachers, and scientists. I'm not saying that Mexico doesn't have talented people, it does. It also has way too many corrupt people who incidentally happen to run the government.

Bulllshit.

When Nagin made his "chocolate city" comment, it was world-wide news.

Perhaps you should check the tint of your glasses.

I got one name for you.. Al Sharpton. He is the spokesman for double standards. And he does so with effectiveness. Look no farther then the black community if you want to see a blind eye to racism (or how some might say "reverse racisim")

I got one name for you.. Al Sharpton. He is the spokesman for double standards. And he does so with effectiveness. Look no farther then the black community if you want to see a blind eye to racism (or how some might say "reverse racisim")

Meh.

Please show where Al Sharpton has made racist comments and not been criticized for it.

EDIT: link (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=566)

As news spread of the slaying of Concetta Russo-Carriero ý and the motivation behind it ý the town of White Plains was outraged. The crime even drew commentary from black firebrand Rev. Al Sharpton, who called Grant's targeting of whites "a sick and racist mentality that cannot be tolerated in our society." At the same time, Sharpton also condemned a recent white-on-black attack in Howard Beach, N.Y., reminding his listeners that "whether the assailants are white, black or Latino, none of us is safe unless all of us are safe."

First of all, this was a response to another completely different topic.

Secondly, The U.S. has the best health care facilities in the world, and our pharmaceutical companies invent all kinds of new and wonderful drugs to combat disease. Are there Mexican doctors as skilled as US. doctors? Absolutely. Are the best Mexican doctors as skilled as the best US doctors? Not by a long shot. Does Mexico have the best doctors? Not at all. The same goes for lawyers, engineers, entrepenuers, teachers, and scientists. I'm not saying that Mexico doesn't have talented people, it does. It also has way too many corrupt people who incidentally happen to run the government.
No, what you're saying is that Mexican professionals, no matter how 'talented' are simply not as good as USian professionals. Wow. Just wow.

Voz de Aztlán is a very extremist and racist group. They don't like anyone unless they are direct-line descendants from Tezcatlipoca or something, even though most of them are of mixed blood.

Aztlán is the mythical place from where the Aztecs suppossedly came before settling in the valley of Mexico, where Mexico City is now. They don't really want to see the place returned to Mexico, but want it to be its own nation.

DCD, I read the news of the incursion. It seems to me it could have been an honest to goodness mistake from the AFI (which is not the army, nor connected to the army), which are not that uncommon from both sides, but it's hard to know since the Mexicans don't seem to be looking into it. All the rest, about the drug trafficking, is pure speculation from the guy who was there and speaks little Spanish.

First of all, this was a response to another completely different topic.

Secondly, The U.S. has the best health care facilities in the world, and our pharmaceutical companies invent all kinds of new and wonderful drugs to combat disease. Are there Mexican doctors as skilled as US. doctors? Absolutely. Are the best Mexican doctors as skilled as the best US doctors? Not by a long shot. Does Mexico have the best doctors? Not at all. The same goes for lawyers, engineers, entrepenuers, teachers, and scientists. I'm not saying that Mexico doesn't have talented people, it does. It also has way too many corrupt people who incidentally happen to run the government.

You load sixteen tons an' what do you get? Another day older deeper and debt...

Voz de Aztlán is a very extremist and racist group. They don't like anyone unless they are direct-line descendants from Tezcatlipoca or something, even though most of them are of mixed blood.

Aztlán is the mythical place from where the Aztecs suppossedly came before settling in the valley of Mexico, where Mexico City is now. They don't really want to see the place returned to Mexico, but want it to be its own nation.

DCD, I read the news of the incursion. It seems to me it could have been an honest to goodness mistake from the AFI (which is not the army, nor connected to the army), which are not that uncommon from both sides, but it's hard to know since the Mexicans don't seem to be looking into it. All the rest, about the drug trafficking, is pure speculation from the guy who was there and speaks little Spanish.
The news story I quoted is one thing, but I saw an interview with a sheriff in an Arizona county that borders Mexico. He had shot video of what appeared to be Mexican soldiers on US territory and had witnessed them guarding a Humvee full of bales of marijuana. Unfortunately it was TV news and I don't even remember the TV station nor do I have a link that deals with it.

Are the best Mexican doctors as skilled as the best US doctors? Not by a long shot. Does Mexico have the best doctors? Not at all. The same goes for lawyers, engineers, entrepenuers, teachers, and scientists. I'm not saying that Mexico doesn't have talented people, it does. It also has way too many corrupt people who incidentally happen to run the government.
Not only that, but it's difficult for Mexico (and many other countries) to retain their best talent. Distinguished professionals can very easily emigrate to the US where they can earn a lot more money than they could in Mexico.

You load sixteen tons an' what do you get? Another day older deeper and debt...
I also enjoy the fact that the US spends the most per capita on their health care system...which is privitised, and supposed to be more effecient and cheaper than a public health care system. OOPS!

Not only that, but it's difficult for Mexico (and many other countries) to retain their best talent. Distinguished professionals can very easily emigrate to the US where they can earn a lot more money than they could in Mexico.
Once they cross the border, do they become better professionals I wonder? Is there some magic power at the border?

Voz de Aztlán is a very extremist and racist group. They don't like anyone unless they are direct-line descendants from Tezcatlipoca or something, even though most of them are of mixed blood.

Aztlán is the mythical place from where the Aztecs suppossedly came before settling in the valley of Mexico, where Mexico City is now. They don't really want to see the place returned to Mexico, but want it to be its own nation.

DCD, I read the news of the incursion. It seems to me it could have been an honest to goodness mistake from the AFI (which is not the army, nor connected to the army), which are not that uncommon from both sides, but it's hard to know since the Mexicans don't seem to be looking into it. All the rest, about the drug trafficking, is pure speculation from the guy who was there and speaks little Spanish.

The Southern Poverty Law Center watches Voz de Aztlan as a hate group.

Ethnic Nationalism
Tiny Chicano group pushes racism and homophobia (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=186)

(DCD, it appears Lou was at least partially right. On the other hand, the group is clearly being criticized for its racism.)

I also enjoy the fact that the US spends the most per capita on their health care system...which is privitised, and supposed to be more effecient and cheaper than a public health care system. OOPS!
Well it's pretty efficient at earning profits. My doctor prescribed Nexium for my acid reflux. If I had to pay for it out of pocket it would cost $150 for thirty pills.

The news story I quoted is one thing, but I saw an interview with a sheriff in an Arizona county that borders Mexico. He had shot video of what appeared to be Mexican soldiers on US territory and had witnessed them guarding a Humvee full of bales of marijuana. Unfortunately it was TV news and I don't even remember the TV station nor do I have a link that deals with it.
Yes, I read the reports in the Mexican news sites. The US protested formally but there are no indications that it was actually the Mexican Army involved in that one, and it possibly was drug traffickers using military fatigues and Humvees, which are not that difficult to get.

In fact, if they were very well armed it's very likely that they were drug traffickers. The Mexican Army is on a tight budget, you see.

The Southern Poverty Law Center watches Voz de Aztlan as a hate group.

Ethnic Nationalism
Tiny Chicano group pushes racism and homophobia (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=186)

(DCD, it appears Lou was at least partially right. On the other hand, the group is clearly being criticized for its racism.)
Yeah, I guess everybody gets condemned for racism. Maybe I just don't notice it as often with non-white groups.

Well it's pretty efficient at earning profits. My doctor prescribed Nexium for my acid reflux. If I had to pay for it out of pocket it would cost $150 for thirty pills.
Ack...well your government is pretty good at blocking generic drugs too...what the hell is with that?

Yes, I read the reports in the Mexican news sites. The US protested formally but there are no indications that it was actually the Mexican Army involved in that one, and it possibly was drug traffickers using military fatigues and Humvees, which are not that difficult to get.

In fact, if they were very well armed it's very likely that they were drug traffickers. The Mexican Army is on a tight budget, you see.
Yeah, that seems to be a probable explanation.

Once they cross the border, do they become better professionals I wonder? Is there some magic power at the border?
No, but it contributes to Mexico not having the "best of" (although the remaining ones are still pretty damn good) which is what I think Dubya was refering to.

Others argue that doctors in Mexico and other undeveloped countries are better, since they don't rely so much on machines, big laboratories and other modern technology, making them better at diagnosis and such.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it.

Yeah, that seems to be a probable explanation.
Stop being so bloody reasonable.

Stop being so bloody reasonable.
Ok, Here goes.

THE ILLEGALS ARE STEALING OUR BEST JOBS AND COMMITING EVERY CRIME IN AMERICA!!!!!!!! WE NEED TO MINE THE BORDERS AND BE READY TO SHOOT ANYONE WHO DOESN'T SPEAK ENGLISH LIKE A NATIVE!!!!!!

Better?

Ahh, I hope I'm alive when Whites become a minority and start demanding jobs through Affirmative Action. Ahh the irony.

OK, I have a question. what do they think should be done about people like me who are an approximate 50/50 mix of European and Native American? Should I be split in half? :confused: Seems like it would hurt. :(

Ahh, I hope I'm alive when Whites become a minority and start demanding jobs through Affirmative Action. Ahh the irony.

Don't start on that hobgoblin.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9170439&postcount=89
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9140528&postcount=62
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8465983&postcount=3

OK, I have a question. what do they think should be done about people like me who are an approximate 50/50 mix of European and Native American? Should I be split in half? :confused: Seems like it would hurt. :(

We ship you to Japan!

:D

I also enjoy the fact that the US spends the most per capita on their health care system...which is privitised, and supposed to be more effecient and cheaper than a public health care system. OOPS!

We spend a lot of money on Medicare, but yeah, health care should not be privatised(or at least it should be really cheap so that most people could afford it).

No, what you're saying is that Mexican professionals, no matter how 'talented' are simply not as good as USian professionals. Wow. Just wow.

Exactly. In most cases that's exactly what I'm saying. Why do you think the US is coming up with all these advancements, and Mexico isn't? If you could see beyond your politically correct bullshit, you would realize that it's because we have better infrastructure, better technology, better opportunities, and better professionals.

I can't believe that I'm arguing whether Mexico or the United States is more advanced, this is ridiculuous. You aren't worth my time, and I've got homework to do, so that I can become a skilled *professional*. Logging off.

Ok, Here goes.

THE ILLEGALS ARE STEALING OUR BEST JOBS AND COMMITING EVERY CRIME IN AMERICA!!!!!!!! WE NEED TO MINE THE BORDERS AND BE READY TO SHOOT ANYONE WHO DOESN'T SPEAK ENGLISH LIKE A NATIVE!!!!!!

Better?Yes. That's more what I expect to hear from USians:)

Ahh, I hope I'm alive when Whites become a minority and start demanding jobs through Affirmative Action. Ahh the irony.
They'll have to go through something akin to slavery, cultural assimilation etc first though.

OK, I have a question. what do they think should be done about people like me who are an approximate 50/50 mix of European and Native American? Should I be split in half? :confused: Seems like it would hurt. :(
Don't worry. We'll probably accept you as native, even if you aren't a full blood. You can stay.

Don't start on that hobgoblin.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9170439&postcount=89
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9140528&postcount=62
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8465983&postcount=3
I agree with your stance on affirmative action, and I feel it is a necessary tool in order to insure fairness in hiring practices.

However, I can't let you off the hook for one of your reasons for defending it.

Nor is it true that whites suffer from affirmative action. According to the U.S. Commerce Department, there are 1.3 million unemployed Black civilians and 112 million employed White civilians (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2000). Thus, even if every unemployed black worker in the United States were to displace a white worker, only 1% of whites would be affected. Furthermore, affirmative action pertains only to job-qualified applicants, so the actual percentage of affected whites would be a fraction of 1%

This isn't a fair way to look at a problem in society. Judging by your stance on a variety of issues, I can reasonably assume you wouldn't think it just if the government were to intern Muslims in America, in order to insure security, and use as an excuse that they only did it to less than 1% of the said population.

Like I said, I agree with AA, but I don't agree with justifications that people use, if those justifications go against said persons ethical standards.

Maybe when you try to prove a point, you should try using only data that supports your point AND is consistent with your views?

(I may be wrong about your moral standards. If I am, please feel free to correct me)

THE ILLEGALS ARE STEALING OUR BEST JOBS AND COMMITING EVERY CRIME IN AMERICA!!!!!!!! WE NEED TO MINE THE BORDERS AND BE READY TO SHOOT ANYONE WHO DOESN'T SPEAK ENGLISH LIKE A NATIVE!!!!!!?

Most teenagers these days don't speak English like natives...so killing them sounds like a reasonable, well thought out plan. Well played, DCD.

I can't believe that I'm arguing whether Mexico or the United States is more advanced, this is ridiculuous. You aren't worth my time, and I've got homework to do, so that I can become a skilled *professional*. Logging off.
That isn't the argument at all. Your argument seems to be that all professions rely on wealth and 'better infrastructure' as indicators of their 'advancement'. Oddly enough, you can be a great teacher without a videoconferencing suite, a laptop and a room full of computers. Even odder...you can have all those things, and be a terrible teacher.

Wealth and better infrastructure do NOT guarantee better professionals across the board.

Edit: Oh, and Cuba has arguably made more advancements in medicine that is actually NECESSARY than the US has, and helped more people outside of their own borders with said medicine (re: not impotency aids, nor weight loss pills, but rather, vaccines) and I doubt you'd ever say they had a better infrastructure than the US.

Ahh, I hope I'm alive when Whites become a minority and start demanding jobs through Affirmative Action. Ahh the irony.
It'll probably end up like Brazil. A few rich white folks at the top, a few poor white folks at the bottom along with the darker skinned people. It seems we're already moving toward the third world model. The middle class doesn't seem to be getting bigger. It seems it's shrinking.

Most teenagers these days don't speak English like natives...so killing them sounds like a reasonable, well thought out plan. Well played, DCD.
There's no point in killing teenagers. That's just a waste. I'm sure we can find uses for the more attractive ones. Look at Britney Spears and Christina Aguilara. They seem completely useless, but they've generated alot of wealth from middle aged men who like to stare at teen girls in slutty attire.

I agree with your stance on affirmative action, and I feel it is a necessary tool in order to insure fairness in hiring practices.

However, I can't let you off the hook for one of your reasons for defending it.



This isn't a fair way to look at a problem in society. Judging by your stance on a variety of issues, I can reasonably assume you wouldn't think it just if the government were to intern Muslims in America, in order to insure security, and use as an excuse that they only did it to less than 1% of the said population.

Like I said, I agree with AA, but I don't agree with justifications that people use, if those justifications go against said persons ethical standards.

Maybe when you try to prove a point, you should try using only data that supports your point AND is consistent with your views?

(I may be wrong about your moral standards. If I am, please feel free to correct me)

Good points.

But my point that you critique was merely dismissing the myth that white are stastically significantly harmed by affirmative action. There are many reasons why that myth is untrue, but one is that it is stastically not possible for there to be as much displacement of whites as is complained about. I did not mean in saying so that AA did any such thing or that it would be OK if it did.

BTW, I am pleasantly surprised to have someone else actually support AA. :)

There's no point in killing teenagers. That's just a waste. I'm sure we can find uses for the more attractive ones. Look at Britney Spears and Christina Aguilara. They seem completely useless, but they've generated alot of wealth from middle aged men who like to stare at teen girls in slutty attire.
Couldn't we actually get some quality sluts though? I mean, someone who doesn't look like a shit stain (Britney) without 20 lbs of makeup and plastic breasts?

Good points.

But my point that you critique was merely dismissing the myth that white are stastically significantly harmed by affirmative action. There are many reasons why that myth is untrue, but one is that it is stastically not possible for there to be as much displacement of whites as is complained about. I did not mean in saying so that AA did any such thing or that it would be OK if it did.

BTW, I am pleasantly surprised to have someone else actually support AA. :)
Well, let thy chest swell in pride, because you are one of the reasons I am a supporter of it. I always thought it a good idea, but I never knew the specifics. you have enlightened me.

But, I swear to god, if you EVER tell anyone that, I will fucking deny it and call you a filthy liar. ;) (and I still support the war :D )

But, I swear to god, if you EVER tell anyone that, I will fucking deny it and call you a filthy liar. ;) (and I still support the war :D )
I must be getting you mixed up with someone...because I always thought you were a reactionary right-wing closet racist....????

Well, let thy chest swell in pride, because you are one of the reasons I am a supporter of it. I always thought it a good idea, but I never knew the specifics. you have enlightened me.

Wow. That does make me proud. :)

But, I swear to god, if you EVER tell anyone that, I will fucking deny it and call you a filthy liar. ;) (and I still support the war :D )

Understood. We'll keep it a secret between us. ;)

Honestly for me sometimes many people from USA IS racist...You always have the images of us latinos with those big hats and eating beans and stuff...Also with a moustache..That image for me, as a latin american, is disgusting, and southwest was from mexico...Look at one of your states..."California" look a bit lower, in Mexico "Baja California", also, you've taken our identity...The name of your country shouldnt be "United States Of America" it should be "United States of North America" because a little souther, in mexico, they're also a federation of states....And whats up with people calling you americans or your land america?America is a country, the name of its origin isnt even English, Saxon or from the USA, its from Italy or Spain, i dont remember...It was of a man called "Americo Vespucio" that made the maps for america...NOT NORTH AMERICA OR THE USA, it was the part conquered by the Spaniards and Portuguese, not the Saxons or English.
Down to the racism :gundge:

Im hispanic by birth. But it end's there. Im AMERICAN. MY DAD CAME TO THE USA LEGALLY AND PROUDLY. THE MEXICANS THAT ARE CRYING ABOUT TEXAS AND CALIFORNIA BEIGING THERES, NEED TO GET OVER IT. WHY IS IT THAT WE (THE UNITED STATES) HAVE TO CATER TO MEXICAN ILLEGALS, BUT WHEN BRASILIANS OR OTHER PEOPLE FROM SOUTH AMERICAN COUNTRIES, TRY TO ILLEGALY MOVE INTO MEXICO. THE MEXICAN GOV. HAS LAWS TO SHOOT ON SITE. THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT HAS THE MILITARY AS BORDER PATROL. IM JUST SICK OF MEXICO AND THERE B.S..( WE ARE THE RACEIST'S BECAUSE WE ARE LEGAL CITIZENS' OF THE UNITED STATES?) I SAY ILLEGAL GO HOME... YOU ARE NOT WELCOMED IN MY COUNTRY... LIKE I SAID MY POPS IS FROM MEXICO. HE LEFT MEXICO AND ENTERD THE USA THE "LEGAL" WAY. "DOWN WITH THE ZOG MACHINE"... BY BEIGING PC IN THIS COUNTRY IT IS MAKEING US WEAK."TIME TO GET RID OF THE ACLU WHO ONLY DEFENDS CRIMINALS AND ILLEGALS. BERKLEY ALSO NEEDS TO GO.. DOWN WITH THE ZOG MACHINE.... BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN. BE LIKE THE AUSTRALIANS TAKE THE MATTER INTO YOUR HANDS. USA,USA,USA...

Racism knows no boundaries, it is a worldwide symptom of the present social paradigm.

THINK LESS, LIVE MORE!

Im hispanic by birth. But it end's there. Im AMERICAN. MY DAD CAME TO THE USA LEGALLY AND PROUDLY. THE MEXICANS THAT ARE CRYING ABOUT TEXAS AND CALIFORNIA BEIGING THERES, NEED TO GET OVER IT. WHY IS IT THAT WE (THE UNITED STATES) HAVE TO CATER TO MEXICAN ILLEGALS, BUT WHEN BRASILIANS OR OTHER PEOPLE FROM SOUTH AMERICAN COUNTRIES, TRY TO ILLEGALY MOVE INTO MEXICO. THE MEXICAN GOV. HAS LAWS TO SHOOT ON SITE. THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT HAS THE MILITARY AS BORDER PATROL. IM JUST SICK OF MEXICO AND THERE B.S..( WE ARE THE RACEIST'S BECAUSE WE ARE LEGAL CITIZENS' OF THE UNITED STATES?) I SAY ILLEGAL GO HOME... YOU ARE NOT WELCOMED IN MY COUNTRY... LIKE I SAID MY POPS IS FROM MEXICO. HE LEFT MEXICO AND ENTERD THE USA THE "LEGAL" WAY. "DOWN WITH THE ZOG MACHINE"... BY BEIGING PC IN THIS COUNTRY IT IS MAKEING US WEAK."TIME TO GET RID OF THE ACLU WHO ONLY DEFENDS CRIMINALS AND ILLEGALS. BERKLEY ALSO NEEDS TO GO.. DOWN WITH THE ZOG MACHINE.... BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN. BE LIKE THE AUSTRALIANS TAKE THE MATTER INTO YOUR HANDS. USA,USA,USA...

"Down with the ZOG machine"? Maybe you'd be more comfortable with the Aztlan crowd. I'd certainly be more comfortable without you.

"DOWN WITH THE ZOG MACHINE"... BY BEIGING PC IN THIS COUNTRY IT IS MAKEING US WEAK."TIME TO GET RID OF THE ACLU WHO ONLY DEFENDS CRIMINALS AND ILLEGALS. BERKLEY ALSO NEEDS TO GO.. DOWN WITH THE ZOG MACHINE.... BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN. BE LIKE THE AUSTRALIANS TAKE THE MATTER INTO YOUR HANDS. USA,USA,USA...Wow...aside from all the shouting, and the US slogans, this kind of jumped out at me. ZOG ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government), hey? So you're one of those. So...are the Jews encouraging illegal immigration? Is that the link?

Snip


someone needs a timeout in the brainwash machine.

You guys are the real racists....Its cause of your bully country that the rest is bad....

You guys are the real racists....Its cause of your bully country that the rest is bad....
Grow up dude. US interventions in Latin America were motivated by two things. Greed and anti-communism. It would have been the same if you were whiter than us.

Besides, other than take some land, what the fuck have we ever done to Mexico? What have we ever done to Mexico that can be construed as racist?

Possibly that image you've created for us as poor guys and people with moustaches and hats.... =/ get to know us first....You also qualifie us as dumb people with no education, though i know 3 languages, i come from a fighting family...and im more inteligent than most USA boys my age...im 12 :/

Possibly that image you've created for us as poor guys and people with moustaches and hats.... =/ get to know us first....You also qualifie us as dumb people with no education, though i know 3 languages, i come from a fighting family...and im more inteligent than most USA boys my age...im 12 :/
Your age shows in your angry posts.

You're upset because of sombreros and moustaches? Deal with it. It's called a stereotype. Every group has them. Whether you're a WASP, a WOP or a Wetback there's some image that the world imagines you must fit.

You know three languages, great. There are plenty of Americans who do as well. So what?

You come from a fighting family? So what?

You're more intelligent than most American boys your age? If you are fluent in three languages I'd say your more intelligent than most boys your age regardless of nation of origin. Maybe you could apply that intelligence to understand yourself and people in general better.

I must be getting you mixed up with someone...because I always thought you were a reactionary right-wing closet racist....????
I think that because of the subjects discussed here, and the amount of animosity in this forum, that sometimes we ALL take positions too far, just to be on the other side of the person we disagree with.

I think you'd be pleasently surprised with who I really am in real life. I LOVE ALL people, I fight for peoples rights, I protect animals, I HATE the religious right, I am an environmentalist, and I'm half Native American.

Strange what ya learn about someone when you take 5 minutes to quit calling them a "Bushite", and actually ask them who they are.

Well it was Mexican territory, and thatis what America is afraid of. That more Latin or Mexican people arrive in that area, Mexico will just take it over again.

Well if they care to start the war we will finish it. Let them try and retake it. The Mexican army wouldn't last a day against the LAPD. Then the regular army would just have to clean up the mess.

As an American I am not afraid of Mexicans taking over the SW US. As I'm not afraid of over half of SF being Asians. They are all Americans including myself. I bet if you really get down to it and had them pick sides. The vast majority would not pick Mexico's side in a fight. Therefore the arguement that "Mexican's" are taking over is really just retarded.

These groups that people are talking about in this thread are a bunch of racists as same as the KKK, black panthers of old and the likes of the rest of the racism based hate groups. They need to be labled correctly and not given the time of day.

I think that because of the subjects discussed here, and the amount of animosity in this forum, that sometimes we ALL take positions too far, just to be on the other side of the person we disagree with.

I think you'd be pleasently surprised with who I really am in real life. I LOVE ALL people, I fight for peoples rights, I protect animals, I HATE the religious right, I am an environmentalist, and I'm half Native American.

Strange what ya learn about someone when you take 5 minutes to quit calling them a "Bushite", and actually ask them who they are.

True 'dat. Lesson learned (once again).

Possibly that image you've created for us as poor guys and people with moustaches and hats.... =/ get to know us first....You also qualifie us as dumb people with no education, though i know 3 languages, i come from a fighting family...and im more inteligent than most USA boys my age...im 12 :/
It's not like we don't have stereotypes in Mexico. Just remember a few months ago all the controversy surrounding the Memín Pinguín stamps.

Or all the jokes involving gringos.

Your age shows in your angry posts.

You're upset because of sombreros and moustaches? Deal with it. It's called a stereotype. Every group has them. Whether you're a WASP, a WOP or a Wetback there's some image that the world imagines you must fit.

You know three languages, great. There are plenty of Americans who do as well. So what?

You come from a fighting family? So what?

You're more intelligent than most American boys your age? If you are fluent in three languages I'd say your more intelligent than most boys your age regardless of nation of origin. Maybe you could apply that intelligence to understand yourself and people in general better.
The thing I wish to state is that YOU get your identity by stealing other peoples identity...Look at an earlier post to see that :/ .
Also, stereotyping is bad, I just want people to stop using it, earlier posts were clearly stereotyping us...You called our women whores and you said we had lots of drugs, and guess what?"Americans" wich isnt the correct word, nor is "Northamerican" because...What would be canadians then?Im not sure what the correct name would be, prolly, if you're stereotyping us I should call you "Gringo"?No, I'll just say this, People from united states smokes a lot more and gets on hi a lot more than latin americans.
AND STOP HAVING DAMN STEREOTYPES ABOUT US!!!!!!

It's not like we don't have stereotypes in Mexico. Just remember a few months ago all the controversy surrounding the Memín Pinguín stamps.

Or all the jokes involving gringos.
Hmm yeah, but we don't have them as much as them...We dont have a stereotype of a fat guy with a hamburger and coke carrying a machine gun and killing muslims...I personally dont use those gringo jokes, noone in my school does..But they use black people jokes, wich I dislike....What i mean by them losing their identity is, whats their language? english, where does it come from? england, while in Latin america we have more indian language and more indians proportionnaly, we take care of them instead of killing them and using western films as propaganda (they sort of were used).

Exactly why I don't like Mexicans...

If its because all my arguing lol, IM NOT MEXICAN
Im just latin american ;)

Hmm yeah, but we don't have them as much as them...We dont have a stereotype of a fat guy with a hamburger and coke carrying a machine gun and killing muslims...I personally dont use those gringo jokes, noone in my school does..But they use black people jokes, wich I dislike....What i mean by them losing their identity is, whats their language? english, where does it come from? england, while in Latin america we have more indian language and more indians proportionnaly, we take care of them instead of killing them and using western films as propaganda (they sort of were used).
Maybe not that particular one, but we do stereotype a lot. For example, you're stereotyping by saying that people in the US stereotype more than us, or by saying they're racists, or imperialists.

Most of them are just relaxed people trying to make a living, just like everyone else everywhere in the world.

Please, in Latin America we use Spanish. Don't get me started on treatment towards natives, especially in Mexico. Your sole statement of "we take care of them" speaks volumes about how natives are seen in Mexico, like a museum piece.

And Mexico had as many indian wars as the US. Take a look at the history of Yucatán in the 19th C; the persecutions against Yaquis, Apaches, and Navajos in Sonora and Chihuahua, well into the 20th C. Native nations in Mexico don't have self rule, unlike in the US or Canada. It's true that treatment towards natives in the US is not perfect, but it's way ahead than anything we have in Mexico. You speak about the languages, and certainly lately there have been efforts to preserve them, but apart from Nahuatl and a couple of Mayan dialects, they are doing badly. Dozens have disappeared completely.

And let's not get into other groups. What about that group of Spanish Muslims in Chiapas that were threatened with deportation for getting together to practice their religion? The constant harassment and even expulsion that converted evagelicals in rural communities go through, including death threats and assault? The discrimination against homosexuals and AIDS victims all over the country?

No, dude, the US may not be perfect, but Mexico is also very very far from perfection, and it's time that Mexicans take a good look at ourselves instead of blaming others (including the government) for our shortcomings.

Damn mexicans and their glass candies...

Besides, other than take some land, what the fuck have we ever done to Mexico? What have we ever done to Mexico that can be construed as racist?

Come on. "Other than take some land"? Stealing half a country is significant.

The Mexican-American War was inspired by and justified with vicious racism - the "Manifest Destiny" of the Anglo-Saxon race to claim more and more of the continent.

The US has continuously intervened in Mexican politics ever since. With the exception of the 1914 incursion, it hasn't usually been as blatant as it's been elsewhere - we never funded terrorist death squads there, to my knowledge - but it's had an effect. Some of Mexico's most incompetent and destructive leaders have been US stooges.

we take care of them instead of killing them

We don't kill them any more. Nor do we do a particularly good job taking care of them, but I don't think (with a few exceptions, and speaking more of the government than the people) you are doing a very good job either. The Zapatistas don't seem to think so, certainly.

Now tht's funny. You find me a Mexican without european heritage in their genes...

Check the country-side, if the rest of the Americas can produce them, so can Mexico.

If mexico wasnt a bitch and actually had an army they could try to fight the us for the land back but they wouldn't win. Its like if a bully steals your lunch money, if you try to take it back you get your ass beat, its teh same way for mexico, they need to know there role, as well as all those damm taco stuffers.

#1) Mexico has an army.

#2) A bunch of dead Americans and Mexicans won't make the fact that the US stole their land any less wrong. But, personally I think the idea of land ownership is flawed, so any fighting over any land is retarded.

I also enjoy the fact that the US spends the most per capita on their health care system...which is privitised, and supposed to be more effecient and cheaper than a public health care system. OOPS!

You can't just take the per capita expenditures and extrapolate an efficiency metric from it. There are many reasons why the US might have a higher per-capita expenditure rate on health care.

Part of the problem in the United States is that health insurance is used for everything from major medical procedures to emergencies to seeing the doctor for a yearly checkup. If our insurance companies did not have to cover the additional expenses of doctor visits, etc., health care expenditures would be lessened since it is always more inefficient to pipe money through an intermediary.

It's not necessarily a question of whether private or public is more efficient, it's a question of whether multiple competing entities compared against a monopoly is more efficient. It will not always be the same in every case. However, if you compare a public monopoly to a private monopoly, the public monopoly will always be more inefficient.

So, the question is, is the healthcare system cheaper and more efficient as a monopoly or as a group of competing entities? It might not be immediately apparent, but we can attempt to examine the possibilities. Given that my health needs are very likely different than your needs which are different than my girlfriend's needs which are different than our neighbors' needs, etc., it's not immediately apparent that a monopoly will be an appropriate solution given the disparate needs of the constituents. However, since the premiums of mostly healthy people are used to pay for the costs of those less fortunate, a monopoly may, in the end, fare better. However, if I had Type I diabetes, I might want to sign up with an insurance company that catered to my needs (had good doctors in their network, worked with drug companies to provide insulin, etc.) instead of an all-purpose insurance company that may or may not cover all the bases appropriately.

I'm not quite answering the question as much as I am posing it differently. I think it would be appropriate to experiment with such a system. The most important thing to do when considering this issue is to set your emotions aside. The most passionate feelings will not make up the difference in an inefficient system.

If a fully privatized healthcare system ended up being a monopoly, does that mean we should make it a public system? As I mentioned before, funneling money through an intermediary is always less efficient than sending money directly. Since the very definition of a public system would be to send the money through the government as an intermediary, it would be less efficient than a privatized system where I pay the doctor out of my own pocket.

The thing I wish to state is that YOU get your identity by stealing other peoples identity...Look at an earlier post to see that :/ .
Also, stereotyping is bad, I just want people to stop using it, earlier posts were clearly stereotyping us...You called our women whores and you said we had lots of drugs, and guess what?"Americans" wich isnt the correct word, nor is "Northamerican" because...What would be canadians then?Im not sure what the correct name would be, prolly, if you're stereotyping us I should call you "Gringo"?No, I'll just say this, People from united states smokes a lot more and gets on hi a lot more than latin americans.
AND STOP HAVING DAMN STEREOTYPES ABOUT US!!!!!!
No we don't. We're the United States of America. We call ourselves Americans for short. It's not stealing. It just makes sense.

Grow up and calm down.

http://www.icug.us/hispanic/000925panch.jpg

Are you really offended because of that?

Hmm yeah, but we don't have them as much as them...We dont have a stereotype of a fat guy with a hamburger and coke carrying a machine gun and killing muslims...I personally dont use those gringo jokes, noone in my school does..But they use black people jokes, wich I dislike....What i mean by them losing their identity is, whats their language? english, where does it come from? england, while in Latin america we have more indian language and more indians proportionnaly, we take care of them instead of killing them and using western films as propaganda (they sort of were used).
You folks don't kill Indians? I think alot of the ELZN people would disagree.

EIGTH.- The EZLN calls upon the national and international civil
society not to be fooled by the Mexican government war games and to
demand the end of the Indigenous peoples extermination and the
enforcement of the San Andres Agreements.

http://old.thing.net/wwwboard1/messages/591.html

I think that because of the subjects discussed here, and the amount of animosity in this forum, that sometimes we ALL take positions too far, just to be on the other side of the person we disagree with.

I think you'd be pleasently surprised with who I really am in real life. I LOVE ALL people, I fight for peoples rights, I protect animals, I HATE the religious right, I am an environmentalist, and I'm half Native American.

Strange what ya learn about someone when you take 5 minutes to quit calling them a "Bushite", and actually ask them who they are.
Whoa there you...you...Man in Black you! I just want to clear my name for a moment...I have never, not once, and never do I intend to use the term 'Bushite'. It's too lame.

And I AM pleasantly surprised by some of the truer aspects of your nature that seem to be creeping through...I had no idea you were a fellow neechie, for one:), and well...yeah, you just seemed awfully right wing, intolerant and extreme. I guess that's part of you taking a position too far...I tend to assume that people mean what they say, because other than a few strange moments (as HerPower, but also as trolling Sinuhue), I don't actually take a position I don't support.

But this isn't the first time I've been surprised by someone...Santa Barbara, Whispering Legs (aka Deep Kimchi), Syniks and others have taught me that even though I may disagree with someone (and lately, I disagree with DK A LOT), they still have some good points to make, and just dismissing them outright is kind of pointless. I guess I'll toss you on the pile of people I'll actually listen to from time to time:)

while in Latin america we have more indian language and more indians proportionnaly, we take care of them instead of killing them and using western films as propaganda (they sort of were used).
Whoa Nelly! You take care of your 'indians'? Tell that to the 100,000 Quiche Maya in Guatemala who have been murdered by various dictatorships...yes, the US overthrew Arbenz, and supported these dictators, but it wasn't the gringos pulling the triggers, raping the women, and commiting horrible atrocities against the Quiche people. Ask Rigoberta Menchu Tum how she feels about how Latin Americans have treated 'their indians'. Ask the Mapuche of Chile and Argentina how well they've been treated. Ask the Aymara of Bolivia how well they've been treated...even as a majority population, racism against indios in that country is sickening. The Spaniards massacred indians at a rate not even the US was able to match...hence the need to import black slaves to replace the dead indian workers. At least in the US and in Canada, we 'indians' have recognised claim to land, and have begun a process of reconciliation. That is still to happen throughout most of Latin America...the notable exception being in Chiapas where the native people got sick of waiting and SEIZED what was rightfully theirs.

It's just that if a white person or group makes a racist statement the whole world instantly knows about it and condemns it. If anyone else makes a racist statement it's hardly addressed at all. That's discrimination and discrimination is wrong.

Now I know that there aren't businesses with signs in the windows saying "Crackers need not apply", but still if you're going to be against racism you should be against racism regardless of who's the racist and who's the victim.

.

Of course the Lib's response to that thinking is that "minorities cannot be racist because they hold no power"...with the enphasis being that "racist" as contemplated here is limited
to the "racial supremist" connotation.

Which is but one of the many flavors of racism.

"racially biased" is probably a safer term to use in describing the concept as manifested in minorities...

And BOY are they. Just one more proof that under the skin we are all very much alike.