NationStates Jolt Archive

So fifteen years ago today, hundreds of civilians were killed in Iraq.

Just as well Hussein is in the dock, yea?






Pity it was the Americans then... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/13/newsid_2541000/2541107.stm)

So fifteen years ago today, hundreds of civilians were killed in Iraq.

Just as well Hussein is in the dock, yea?

Pity it was the Americans then... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/13/newsid_2541000/2541107.stm)
There is a difference between killing civilians on purpose 'cause you're evil, and killing civilians by accident because you're criminally incompetent.

There's also an interesting issue involving the pretence that you did not arm the guy and pay him to fight a war for 8 years which killed a million people.

There is a difference between killing civilians on purpose 'cause you're evil, and killing civilians by accident because you're criminally incompetent.

You assume they're not evil.

There is a difference between killing civilians on purpose 'cause you're evil, and killing civilians by accident because you're criminally incompetent.
Yea...one's murder, the other's manslaughter.

But that's OK...as long as it was only manslaughter and not murder :rolleyes:

When it's 'our side', it's just collateral damage. A little 'oops, we didn't mean it' and it all goes away. And nothing will ever convince the rank and file to doubt that the end justify the means.

There's also an interesting issue involving the pretence that you did not arm the guy and pay him to fight a war for 8 years which killed a million people.
"Oops, we all make mistakes".

"Oops, we all make mistakes".
And assume We have the right to forget, while Others do not. ;)

There is a difference between killing civilians on purpose 'cause you're evil, and killing civilians by accident because you're criminally incompetent.

So who is who in this senario?

So who is who in this senario?
One is US and the other is THEM. The scenario will remain the same, but the 'good side' and the 'bad side' is up to the media to name.

*humps your leg...how've you been?*

I guess no one wants to touch this topic. Ah well. Let's sweep it under the rug. Oh...that's where we found it?

One is US and the other is THEM. The scenario will remain the same, but the 'good side' and the 'bad side' is up to the media to name.

*humps your leg...how've you been?*

:p

I've not been wonderful. And your sexy fine self? Did I tell you i was banned from the forum for a week while you were gone?

Oh and I'm not sure but i think the Mods all became puritans while we weren't looking so be sure not to do any cybersex (even jokingly) or post any pictures that would corrupt a 6 year old.

:p

I've not been wonderful. And your sexy fine self? Did I tell you i was banned from the forum for a week while you were gone?

Oh and I'm not sure but i think the Mods all became puritans while we weren't looking so be sure not to do any cybersex (even jokingly) or post any pictures that would corrupt a 6 year old.Hmmm...I've been told recently about this puritan streak...I'll try to tone it down, but it's going to be hard. And wet. Sorry...that just slipped out. And in. DAMN IT!

Hmmm...I've been told recently about this puritan streak...I'll try to tone it down, but it's going to be hard. And wet. Sorry...that just slipped out. And in. DAMN IT!

*despite his obvious excitement he runs the other direction*

So fifteen years ago today, hundreds of civilians were killed in Iraq.

Just as well Hussein is in the dock, yea?






Pity it was the Americans then... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/13/newsid_2541000/2541107.stm)


In their defence, it could be difficult to tell the difference between an air-raid shelter and a military bunker.

*despite his obvious excitement he runs the other direction*
TG.

TG.

reciprocation :fluffle:

In their defence, it could be difficult to tell the difference between an air-raid shelter and a military bunker.
In Saddam Hussein's defence it could be difficult to tell the difference between a civilian and a would be assassin.

In Saddam Hussein's defence it could be difficult to tell the difference between a civilian and a would be assassin.

What? This statement confuses me.

What? This statement confuses me.
What's confusing about it?

What's confusing about it?

What does Saddam Hussen have to do with the accidental bombing of an air raid shelter?

What does Saddam Hussen have to do with the accidental bombing of an air raid shelter?
It was just an example of how your statement was rather silly. I could have used anybody, but seeing as you were attempting to defend an atrocity in Iraq by Americans, I thought Hussein was more relevant.

One of many, many examples that reveal the lie in the apologetics about "liberation" and "human rights" passed on by the purveyors of state propaganda.

The people in power are monsters.

It was just an example of how your statement was rather silly. I could have used anybody, but seeing as you were attempting to defend an atrocity in Iraq by Americans, I thought Hussein was more relevant.

Well, of course he could not tell the difference. I was not defending their obviously bad intellegence. Obviously, they either thought it was something it wasn't or they just missed their target. Wasting a sortie on a civilian target would not make military sense.

Now I don't propose an answer, but how exactly would anyone propose to storm a city without killing civilians? If you'd like to send in ground troops, by all means, that's your position, but look at it from a politician's view:

Option 1) Massive seige - low troop casualties, high probability of success, high civilian casualties.

Option 2) Ground forces invasion - high troop casualties, lower probability of success, lower civilian casualties.

If you choose option two do you have any idea how much worse the voter backlash will be? Unfortunately, our politicians earn a living by choosing the option least likely to earn them emnity amonst those who have a say in their political future.

There is a difference between killing civilians on purpose 'cause you're evil, and killing civilians by accident because you're criminally incompetent.
true

Yeah, imagine the US, joined by a coalition of 31 countries, bombing a FUCKING MILITARY BUNKER!!!!!!!!

What could they ever have been thinking bombing a MILITARY BUNKER in the middle of a war! How dumb can you get, right? :rolleyes:

One American intelligence officer said the bunker had been transmitting military signals until the moment the bombs hit.

Another US spokesperson in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, suggested Saddam had deliberately created a human shield - a tactic he has used before - to inflame international opinion against allied air strikes.

The Baghdad shelter manager said: We didn't have a single military man in the shelter. It is allocated to civilians."

According to intelligence sources the shelter was built during the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s with a 10 to 15-foot thick concrete ceiling, reinforced with steel, designed to withstand electro-magnetic pulses from a thermo-nuclear blast.

Quite MiB! Don't you know you're not suppose to interrupt an America-Bash thread with facts? :rolleyes: :D

Quite MiB! Don't you know you're not suppose to interrupt an America-Bash thread with facts? :rolleyes: :D

Yeah and dont mention the signal relay station in the basement generating all sorts of radio traffic the listeners picked up on, which led the bombing planners to assume it was a military bunker.


Still I'm still waiting for the 'US armed Saddam' crew to tell us which US factories made the soviet/chinese/french weapons the Iraqi's used in the the Iran war, and in the 1990 Kuwaiti war.

Quite MiB! Don't you know you're not suppose to interrupt an America-Bash thread with facts? :rolleyes: :D
Ooops! My bad!


*puts on Che shirt* DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO AMERICA!!


Better? :D

Yeah and dont mention the signal relay station in the basement generating all sorts of radio traffic the listeners picked up on, which led the bombing planners to assume it was a military bunker.


Still I'm still waiting for the 'US armed Saddam' crew to tell us which US factories made the soviet/chinese/french weapons the Iraqi's used in the the Iran war, and in the 1990 Kuwaiti war.

the same weapons that were used to kill american,french and british troops in the ousting of saddam the benevolent from kuwait.

and why on earth would military planners intensionally target a civilian bunker?

why waste the smart bomb on a non miltary target,and if so..public relations wise..it would be a disaster..

it was a mistake at worse,and probably a legit target that saddam used to create(and boy the america bashers wasted no time in proving him right)that it would anger the world.

i dont doubt for 1 second that insane murderer would hesitate a heartbeat,to sacrifice innocent people to gain any advantage.

oh,and it was a war...?

When it's 'our side', it's just collateral damage. A little 'oops, we didn't mean it' and it all goes away. And nothing will ever convince the rank and file to doubt that the end justify the means.

I agree with you. Modern American society is pretty much the same as in the 1950s - Propagandal filth in every mind, and absolute devotion to the state.

Pathetic, to say the least.

The only "propagandal filth" I'm seeing in this thread, Spartan is the moronic drivel you and your compatriots are spewing out.

Let's put a little fact on the table, shall we?

The US, as leader of a UN SPONSORED AND AUTHORIZED coalition, utilized an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF FORCE in order to first attempt to convince Iraqi forces to withdraw, and, when they would not, to second remove those forces from the soil of the sovereign nation of Kuwait.

Part of modern war is the elimination of command and control facilities. One such facility also happened to contain an air raid shelter.

Thus, through the stupidity of the Iraqi civil defence, both the C&C facility (which was no longer in use, but could have been recommissioned in about an hour) and the shelter were destroyed in a perfectly legitimate and reasonable strike.

I swear though, I don't know why we bothered. The whole kid-glove approach is only so that there's less outrage among the pacifist morons. But since that doesn't seem to matter, and everything we do, no matter how carefully calculated, no matter with what care for avoiding civilian casualties, no matter what international support, is always WRONG, then I suggest we stop trying.

Next time, let's just ensure there are no US casualties. Assuming it's Iraq again, we'll just turn the whole country into a glass crater. Would that satisfy the whiners?

The only "propagandal filth" I'm seeing in this thread, Spartan is the moronic drivel you and your compatriots are spewing out.

Let's put a little fact on the table, shall we?

The US, as leader of a UN SPONSORED AND AUTHORIZED coalition, utilized an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF FORCE in order to first attempt to convince Iraqi forces to withdraw, and, when they would not, to second remove those forces from the soil of the sovereign nation of Kuwait.

Part of modern war is the elimination of command and control facilities. One such facility also happened to contain an air raid shelter.

Thus, through the stupidity of the Iraqi civil defence, both the C&C facility (which was no longer in use, but could have been recommissioned in about an hour) and the shelter were destroyed in a perfectly legitimate and reasonable strike.

I swear though, I don't know why we bothered. The whole kid-glove approach is only so that there's less outrage among the pacifist morons. But since that doesn't seem to matter, and everything we do, no matter how carefully calculated, no matter with what care for avoiding civilian casualties, no matter what international support, is always WRONG, then I suggest we stop trying.

Next time, let's just ensure there are no US casualties. Assuming it's Iraq again, we'll just turn the whole country into a glass crater. Would that satisfy the whiners?

if my kid dont die for aforementioned whiners..yes..i am all for the glass theory...fuck them,we are nice(we suck) we are nicer(we still suck)fuck them...and there hypocritic governments,making money offf our kids dying,go emo on your fucking own gov and quit putting it on the us,you all,and can you tell i am sick of it,the wise ones of the world,cant trace the hypocracy home?
or is it easier to blame the us..sad as all shit,supposed wise ones,the euros,looking down their noses at us,while our sons die,to fight a fight they are too scared or stupid to fight...yet we are bad,and there own gov is making money off it,but we are bad..lol...yet they wont throw stones in there own homes,but will throw at us,and we are doing the dying...kinda like ww2 again...pathetic.
not to say there was not euros that stood up during ww2,but now...it is so easy to be anti american(i hate bush by the way)and not realise that your own country created the problem as much as we did...but it is easier to blame the americans..and not look inside?wtf is that...pussy crap...yea america is a whore...as is all of the pooh pooh sayers of america....sad shit.
and hypocritical,and as usual..pussy crap,but what else do you exspect from the appeasers...if hitler won,everyone would have said america was bad,like now...but since we won..now we were there friends..as long as we rebuilt...but ...i am sick of this..i want to be an isolationist..screw everyone...and muhammud too.
i hate too say it..but europe aint our friend either..nt from these boards at least,shills for our enemies at best.

i have spent my life trying to be a mediator and a go between,but the pathetic left,blame america no matter what has sickened me to the point..i cant care less what happens to europe....and i am from there...lol...:confused:

The only "propagandal filth" I'm seeing in this thread, Spartan is the moronic drivel you and your compatriots are spewing out.

Let's put a little fact on the table, shall we?

The US, as leader of a UN SPONSORED AND AUTHORIZED coalition, utilized an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF FORCE in order to first attempt to convince Iraqi forces to withdraw, and, when they would not, to second remove those forces from the soil of the sovereign nation of Kuwait.

Part of modern war is the elimination of command and control facilities. One such facility also happened to contain an air raid shelter.

Thus, through the stupidity of the Iraqi civil defence, both the C&C facility (which was no longer in use, but could have been recommissioned in about an hour) and the shelter were destroyed in a perfectly legitimate and reasonable strike.

I swear though, I don't know why we bothered. The whole kid-glove approach is only so that there's less outrage among the pacifist morons. But since that doesn't seem to matter, and everything we do, no matter how carefully calculated, no matter with what care for avoiding civilian casualties, no matter what international support, is always WRONG, then I suggest we stop trying.

Next time, let's just ensure there are no US casualties. Assuming it's Iraq again, we'll just turn the whole country into a glass crater. Would that satisfy the whiners?

it is time to teach the pacifist morons...what sadam would have...or pol pot or stalin..orname your scum du jour...america the shitty hasnt..but yes...go hate us..we wont kill you...saddam will...but at least you can piss off your parents being anti establishment with the us...we wont kill ya..we will just turn you into whores and pussies...stalin will straight up kill ya..as will the hero che..or mao...or who ever you twits think is the next coming of fairness.

i will get kicked for this..so what..if thats what it takes..to make a point with whiney ass dumb asses..so be it.

you will defend muslim outrages like 911....the crap with the danes..cause we are evil,blah blah blah...yet you wont give america..the 1 country that liberated you ,to speak the time of day..lol...be careful for what you wish for...
i am going to listen to evil music now..the same music that will get you killed in iran...but thats cool...freedom fighters...hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

your hatred/jealosy of america is blinding you..tell me i am wrong?

i want iranians/muslims/buddhists/taoists to pray to there gods,and leave me be...apparently...a bunch of you would prefer americans to be hung at the stake for being free,and setting you free....as long as nuts get the upper hand...i hope you get what you wish for!

if my kid dont die for aforementioned whiners..yes..i am all for the glass theory...fuck them,we are nice(we suck) we are nicer(we still suck)fuck them...and there hypocritic governments,making money offf our kids dying,go emo on your fucking own gov and quit putting it on the us,you all,and can you tell i am sick of it,the wise ones of the world,cant trace the hypocracy home?
or is it easier to blame the us..sad as all shit,supposed wise ones,the euros,looking down their noses at us,while our sons die,to fight a fight they are too scared or stupid to fight...yet we are bad,and there own gov is making money off it,but we are bad..lol...yet they wont throw stones in there own homes,but will throw at us,and we are doing the dying...kinda like ww2 again...pathetic.
not to say there was not euros that stood up during ww2,but now...it is so easy to be anti american(i hate bush by the way)and not realise that your own country created the problem as much as we did...but it is easier to blame the americans..and not look inside?wtf is that...pussy crap...yea america is a whore...as is all of the pooh pooh sayers of america....sad shit.
and hypocritical,and as usual..pussy crap,but what else do you exspect from the appeasers...if hitler won,everyone would have said america was bad,like now...but since we won..now we were there friends..as long as we rebuilt...but ...i am sick of this..i want to be an isolationist..screw everyone...and muhammud too.
i hate too say it..but europe aint our friend either..nt from these boards at least,shills for our enemies at best.

i have spent my life trying to be a mediator and a go between,but the pathetic left,blame america no matter what has sickened me to the point..i cant care less what happens to europe....and i am from there...lol...:confused:



Greetings

I´m kinda sorry you feel that way, seems like you´ve been trapped in a mediastorm. Its not good entertaining tv to show people that likes USA, its more entertaining to show the negative part.

Theres no anti-american feelings in the european populations, generally speaking. Somehow the anti-american subject has been used, especially, by the French and German goverment for the sake of domestic politics. I guess it was done to make leaders look strong and independent. Funny, if you think about France( just one example) and where they would have been without USaid in ww2. The french and German gov. have been leadsingers in the anti-american choir for the last couple of years and mainly, if not only, for domestic reasons.:rolleyes:

We have the same idi... in Danish politic, if theres not enough support for their issues ( and there usually aren´t ) they just add a "little" anti-american spice and there you go: one very independent and strong Politician:headbang:

Recently Germany changed goverment ( had their first female gov. leader ever :) ) and the anti-american tone has allready been lowered.

Don´t make the mistake off only listening to those who yells out loudest.

Well that kinda goes with everything, doesn´t it?

Like the few extreme Jewish, Christians, Muslims, etc, etc ,etc dont represent all.

The majorty of the European people likes USA and the American people. Seems like the older brother thing, not always understood, sometimes irritating, but admired and apreciated.

I, for once, apreciate and likes USA, like many other countries.

That the US are willing to risk their son sons and daughters in conflicts and peacekeeping missions ( many of them UN ) all over the world is too be admired and worshipped. Of course there are foreign politics involved but anyway!!! no one else does it that scale. ( I remember seen the US armed forces helping after the tsunami as one of the first, seems like some countries got a short memory! ).

Enough sweettalking for one day, im not sure you can take more

Thank you for that, Hard Work and Freedom. It's always nice to know that you are appreciated.

I really don't have a problem with various nations not joining the "Coalition of the Willing" (doesn't that title just make you want to barf? What were they thinking?). The current war is basically unjustifiable, and it's reasonably fair to criticize the current administration.

What really honks me off is threads like these, where anything American, and any good we've done, is utterly discounted and belittled by small-minded, envious idiots. If someone wants to post a criticism of something the US did wrong, go ahead. I might even post in agreement. But don't pore over the records looking for something to make the US look bad even when we were doing something good and righteous - it's just shows your petty jealousies.

So fifteen years ago today, hundreds of civilians were killed in Iraq.

Just as well Hussein is in the dock, yea?






Pity it was the Americans then... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/13/newsid_2541000/2541107.stm)

So the fact that Saddam Hussein uses women and children as human shields to protect his military infastructure and then exploits their deaths for the purpose of anti-US propaganda are good reasons why he should be left in power?