NationStates Jolt Archive

I have a lot of friends who are teachers, most of them teach highschool, but my friend (let's call her Kelly) teaches 4th grade, she has basically taken over the class of a teacher who got fired, and is trying to get the kids "caught up". In the school system she is in the curiculum is based on passing the standardized test, so that the school can get more funding. She is upset that she can't teach what needs to be taught, because she is forced to teach to the test. There is an attitude that if it's not on the test it's not important.

I helped her grade papers yesterday because she had gotten behind, all of the assignments that I graded were for reading comprehension. It was basically read the story, and bubble in the answers. Out of 18 questions most kids were missing between 12 and 14 questions. :eek: I asked her "can't these kids read?"
and she said "probably not"

She gets out her little sliding grade thingy, and starts to actually grade the papers, I see the one she is working on and they got 8 out of 30 right, and she writes 50% on it.

I said "no wonder they can't read, thier teacher can't even do basic math"

"I can too, we aren't allowed to give them less than a 50"

"why not?"

"No Child Left Behind"

I don't get it, how exactly is this helping these kids? Oh, did I mention that they reworked the grade scale so that 50 is a low D?!

These kids are in 4th grade, they can't read, can't write ( I graded some essays too) they aren't being pushed to do any better, and they are only learning things so the school can get some extra $$......and then they aren't even graded correctly.

I don't think the education system needs more money, I think it needs people who are less interested in money and more interested in teaching kids, no offense to my friend but she didn't even seem to care that the kids can't read.

Essay question on one of the papers

1 Why is rekindle a word that a firefighter doesn't like to hear?
"Because he would have to re-do his homework"

:headbang:

It's not only sad, it's tragic. I was so happy to hear that my younger son and his wife are planning on homeschooling their two lil guys, even though the schools here seem to be above most of the "kid processing" some other schools have a problem with.

I wouldn't be able to homeschool my children... too costly to maintain a decent standard of living that way, though it would be good since most public schools are an insult to those with any real intelligence and don't just follow sheep mentality.

1 Why is rekindle a word that a firefighter doesn't like to hear?
"Because he would have to re-do his homework"
I dunno, I think that could pass of as a "cute" pun were you looking for such things. Definitely better then the jokes I was thinking of in fourth grade.

It's not only sad, it's tragic. I was so happy to hear that my younger son and his wife are planning on homeschooling their two lil guys, even though the schools here seem to be above most of the "kid processing" some other schools have a problem with.
I couldn't believe what I was hearing, the district she works for is one of the top in the state (not the crappy one I went to) now, I suppose I know why

thier grading scale

100-85 A
84-70 B
69-55 C
55-50 D
F doesn't exist

The grading scale at the school system I went to, and the one my 4 year old went to before we pulled her out

100-90 A
89-80 B
79-70 C
69-60 D
59-0 F
That's still pretty leinient but at least there is a failing grade.......

"I can too, we aren't allowed to give them more than a 50"Did you mean less than? :confused:

I wouldn't be able to homeschool my children... too costly to maintain a decent standard of living that way, though it would be good since most public schools are an insult to those with any real intelligence and don't just follow sheep mentality.
what good is a decent standard of living if your children aren't being taught to read?

Yeah, we don't have nice things like the "public school parents", we only have 1 car, we don't have Ipods, my kids don't get 'new' clothes every month, and my husband had to take out a student loan to go back to college, but my kids can read.

Did you mean less than? :confused:
yep, will fix.

We also need to cut back on the whole 'social promotion' thing. They're not gonna learn everything if you give them a by through the social promotion system

Isn't private schooling a cheaper option than home schooling? I went to a private school (British curriculum), and I must say they are infinitely better than public schools.

So are Grammar Schools.

Isn't private schooling a cheaper option than home schooling? I went to a private school (British curriculum), and I must say they are infinitely better than public schools.
the only private school here that I trust is $27,000 a year, per kid, I have 2 kids so that's 54,000 a year. I can't afford that. The cheaper private schools around here are like 4,500 a quarter, but they are all fundamentalist Christian schools and don't teach science.

I make my own curiculum now, but next year I am buying some, it will only be about 1,500 for both girls. ;)

I couldn't believe what I was hearing, the district she works for is one of the top in the state (not the crappy one I went to) now, I suppose I know why

thier grading scale

100-85 A
84-70 B
69-55 C
55-50 D
F doesn't exist

The grading scale at the school system I went to, and the one my 4 year old went to before we pulled her out

100-90 A
89-80 B
79-70 C
69-60 D
59-0 F
That's still pretty leinient but at least there is a failing grade.......

On the second one is it a full 4.0 for a 90%? Or do they differniate for A- B+ etc. I think most of the schools use the second one as a loose guideline. In Michigan the only schools that have a harder grading scale then that is the catholic highschools who set failing at under 70%. My College while the discretion for grading is nearly all left to the professors roughly follow the second one.

the only private school here that I trust is $27,000 a year, per kid, I have 2 kids so that's 54,000 a year. I can't afford that. The cheaper private schools around here are like 4,500 a quarter, but they are all fundamentalist Christian schools and don't teach science.

I make my own curiculum now, but next year I am buying some, it will only be about 1,500 for both girls. ;)
I see your point then. My private schooling was around $15 000 a year, which is considered somewhat expensive over in Europe. Just hope you have the patience for both kids. :p

On the second one is it a full 4.0 for a 90%? Or do they differniate for A- B+ etc. I think most of the schools use the second one as a loose guideline. In Michigan the only schools that have a harder grading scale then that is the catholic highschools who set failing at under 70%. My College while the discretion for grading is nearly all left to the professors roughly follow the second one.
straight 4.0 for a 90% :(

We have our own grading scale at home, my 4 year old helped me do it. She says "if you can't do better than 65% then you really don't know what you are doing" so 64% and below is an F.

My College while the discretion for grading is nearly all left to the professors roughly follow the second one.Ah, the grading system of my university is too...
We get interesting things like: There's X problems. You won't finish all of them. You need to solve Y problems correctly to pass. Whoever solves the most gets a 1.0, and it goes down the line that way. (Grading scale is 1.0 to 5.0, whereby 5.0 is failing)

straight 4.0 for a 90% :(

We have our own grading scale at home, my 4 year old helped me do it. She says "if you can't do better than 65% then you really don't know what you are doing" so 64% and below is an F.
Well one good thing in this. Your kids are setting higher standards for themselves then everyone else has around them.

but a full 4.0 at a 90% is just a little ridicoulus, especially for elementary school.

Well one good thing in this. Your kids are setting higher standards for themselves then everyone else has around them.

but a full 4.0 at a 90% is just a little ridicoulus, especially for elementary school.
I know, my husband goes to school and he has a 3.83 and that's because he didn't get 100% in one of his classes. I think he is doing pretty well, since he is working full time and pulling full time coarse load, and still has time for me and the kiddos (sorry, I have to brag on him a little I am so proud)

Ah, the grading system of my university is too...
We get interesting things like: There's X problems. You won't finish all of them. You need to solve Y problems correctly to pass. Whoever solves the most gets a 1.0, and it goes down the line that way. (Grading scale is 1.0 to 5.0, whereby 5.0 is failing)
Yeah that's one thing about universities...since grading is left entirely up to the professors. You can get a variety of weird grading systems.

I know, my husband goes to school and he has a 3.83 and that's because he didn't get 100% in one of his classes. I think he is doing pretty well, since he is working full time and pulling full time coarse load, and still has time for me and the kiddos (sorry, I have to brag on him a little I am so proud)
Yeah that is good. I just slept through all of my classes for the day (thankfully, there all pretty easy, well they would be hard in reading intensity and comprehension but thankfully, latin prepped me really well for mythology and well I can understand philosophy well enough that class discussions is just me listening to kids ramble on).

Wow, good topic. I was once temping at a company and interviewed to stay on; it was relatively informal since I was already friendly with the manager interviewing me; we got on to talking about philosophies and he told he his rationale behind homeschooling his kids; he said, "My wife homeschools our kids. People somtimes asks me, 'what makes you think you are qualified to homeschool your children?' I tell them, 'Think back to your own education. How many teachers did you have that opened your mind and interested you in a whole new world? Maybe a couple? Most people say they feel lucky to have had one or two. Now, how many teachers have you had that did just the opposite?" And, thus, he rested his case.

There is mention of the financial burden of homeschooling. I don't yet have children to homeschool, but I have already left my native north America because I wouldn't subject kids of mine to the mind-washing-numbing-conforming of western society, nor do I want that for myself. I have crafted plans to open an international boarding school that organizes a curriculum based on hands-on cultural immersion in languages, arts, and history and global travel. A formidable several of my friends find themselves facing the same dilemma of the prospect of their children's educations, and they have signed on to the project as teachers and administrators. The cumulative vision is magnificent.

While I have chosen to leave 'the system' being discussed, there is merit in contemplating how to fix the existing immediate problems. Eight years ago, I worked in California to abolish the state-mandated limit to the number of publicly-funded charter schools which offer educational alternatives to ordinary public schools. I am very interested to hear more personal experiences regarding the development of this system.

Personally, I value travel a paramount catalyst of maturation and wisdom. I would love to see global travel standarized as part of public education.

I wouldn't be able to homeschool my children... too costly to maintain a decent standard of living that way, though it would be good since most public schools are an insult to those with any real intelligence and don't just follow sheep mentality.
Oddly enough, 'homeschooling schools' are being set up to deal with the problem of parents who want to homeschool, but can't afford it. Sounds crazy, no? Actually, what it means is that a teacher is hired (how? well, homeschoolers get funding too) to teach a multi-level group (from kindergarten to grade 12) of kids. The schedule is set up by the parents. I've seen some such 'homeschools' where the kids are given instruction for 3 days, and are at home the other two out of the 'school week', or where the kids are in school just mornings, or whatever. The class size is small, and the space is often 'donated' (an empty office in a rural town for example, or someone's basement), and the parents take turns helping out with the instruction, help out with the supplies and so on.

So what do you get? A teacher who has the right amount of students, who has good parental support, and students that have flexible and meaningful instruction. It's pretty sad that these 'alternative schools' are doing what public education was once able to (before the massive funding cuts).

I help out a teacher I know in her Special ed class, now some special ed kids, (Not the one in the class I'm helping) will NEVER be able to read, but Bush still expects them too. Instead of trying to teach them things so they can do SOMETHING when they grow up. (Heck even trash collecting or something) we have to try and teach them something they can't learn. ARGH!

What next?
"Sure they're in a Coma, BUT WE'LL TEACH THEM TO READ!"

Isn't private schooling a cheaper option than home schooling? I went to a private school (British curriculum), and I must say they are infinitely better than public schools.
I can only speak for Canada...we don't have private schools. We have 'charter schools' which are still publicly funded, but may include religious or 'other' training in addition to the curriculum. For all schools, public or private, there are small fees...usually a couple of hundred of dollars per student (which can still be too much for some parents) for things like field-trips and so on. Parents who homeschool their kids are eligible for funding as well...their supplies (distance education courses, text books and so on) are usually paid for with public funds). So it's not really a case (yet) of which is more expensive, just which works best for you. Not everyone can afford to homeschool, and miss out on the income lost.

I make my own curiculum now, but next year I am buying some, it will only be about 1,500 for both girls. ;)
Do you mean courses, instead of curriculum? I'm not sure how it works in the US...don't your states have a state-approved curriculum? As in, the learning goals that must be achieved in order to say you've taken such and such a course? In Canada, all students have to meet the provincial or territorial curriculum regardless of what textbooks or resources they use...so if in Social Studies, you have to learn about communism, it isn't really important what resources you use to teach the concept as long as the student can demonstrate that he or she understands what communism is.

Oddly enough, 'homeschooling schools' are being set up to deal with the problem of parents who want to homeschool, but can't afford it. Sounds crazy, no? Actually, what it means is that a teacher is hired (how? well, homeschoolers get funding too) to teach a multi-level group (from kindergarten to grade 12) of kids. The schedule is set up by the parents. I've seen some such 'homeschools' where the kids are given instruction for 3 days, and are at home the other two out of the 'school week', or where the kids are in school just mornings, or whatever. The class size is small, and the space is often 'donated' (an empty office in a rural town for example, or someone's basement), and the parents take turns helping out with the instruction, help out with the supplies and so on.

So what do you get? A teacher who has the right amount of students, who has good parental support, and students that have flexible and meaningful instruction. It's pretty sad that these 'alternative schools' are doing what public education was once able to (before the massive funding cuts).

we have something like that, it's our homeschool co-op. Parent's teach the kids, it's $10 to enroll and then $5 a class, on one day a week, classes change 2 times a year, right now my 4 year old is learning sign language, ballet, spanish, and reading. I help teach history, and ethics. It's cheap, and it gets my kids some time with other kids. ;)

I can only speak for Canada...we don't have private schools. We have 'charter schools' which are still publicly funded, but may include religious or 'other' training in addition to the curriculum. For all schools, public or private, there are small fees...usually a couple of hundred of dollars per student (which can still be too much for some parents) for things like field-trips and so on. Parents who homeschool their kids are eligible for funding as well...their supplies (distance education courses, text books and so on) are usually paid for with public funds). So it's not really a case (yet) of which is more expensive, just which works best for you. Not everyone can afford to homeschool, and miss out on the income lost.
Sounds a bit like France. I think they only have five private schools there; most education is either public or, in some rare cases, homeschooling.

we have something like that, it's our homeschool co-op. Parent's teach the kids, it's $10 to enroll and then $5 a class, on one day a week, classes change 2 times a year, right now my 4 year old is learning sign language, ballet, spanish, and reading. I help teach history, and ethics. It's cheap, and it gets my kids some time with other kids. ;)
I think this is incredibly important...that kids have that time to interact with their peers. I've seen some cases of homeschooled kids being incredibly isolated, but on the whole, homeschooled kids have parents who really make the effort to get them out and active.

Do you mean courses, instead of curriculum? I'm not sure how it works in the US...don't your states have a state-approved curriculum? As in, the learning goals that must be achieved in order to say you've taken such and such a course? In Canada, all students have to meet the provincial or territorial curriculum regardless of what textbooks or resources they use...so if in Social Studies, you have to learn about communism, it isn't really important what resources you use to teach the concept as long as the student can demonstrate that he or she understands what communism is.
my state doesn't, some states do. Basically my state says that they have to learn reading, writing, math, and state history. I teach all of that and more. There is basically no regulation here, unless she gets back into public school then they will test her and no matter what grade level they test her at she will get put in with "kids her age".

I have been "unschooling" this year, but next year I am buying text books for math, history, and science. I am still looking for a reading program I like.

I'm already dreading the educational choices for my little goofball. It's very important to me that he attends public school. I'd also like him to get a first-class education. That being the case, I think I'm going to do what my mother did for me; Supplement his education at home.

But what I'm dreading most is knocking heads on school policy. I foresee trouble in that department. *nod*

I'm already dreading the educational choices for my little goofball. It's very important to me that he attends public school. I'd also like him to get a first-class education. That being the case, I think I'm going to do what my mother did for me; Supplement his education at home.
You learn nothing special at a public school that can't be compensated for by participating in a team sport and knowing how to make a molotov cocktail.

I'm already dreading the educational choices for my little goofball. It's very important to me that he attends public school. I'd also like him to get a first-class education. That being the case, I think I'm going to do what my mother did for me; Supplement his education at home.

But what I'm dreading most is knocking heads on school policy. I foresee trouble in that department. *nod*

That's what I do. I purchased some workbooks and use some online worksheets to give my daughter. She loves it because I use the extra work in order for her to earn computer privileges, trips to McD'S, television time. We kind of "play school" and it gives her access to more advanced subjects and hopefully she will have the jump on them once her class begins learning those subjects.

But alas....I am one of those head butting parents. My daughter has been in her new school less than a month and I've already been to "visit" the pricipal and teacher three times. I'm taking a big stick next time. Well, an even bigger stick I should say.

You learn nothing special at a public school that can't be compensated for by participating in a team sport and knowing how to make a molotov cocktail.

I disagree. For no other reason than if I wedgie my kid myself, I might get in trouble with DCF. :p

That's what I do. I purchased some workbooks and use some online worksheets to give my daughter. She loves it because I use the extra work in order for her to earn computer priveleges, trips to McD'S, television time. We kind of "play school" and it gives her access to more advanced subjects and hopefully she will have the jump on them once her class begins learning those subjects.
better be careful, if you teach your kids too much it annoys the teachers

But alas....I am one of those head butting parents. My daughter has been in her new school less than a month and I've already been to "visit" the pricipal and teacher three times. I'm taking a big stick next time. Well, an even bigger stick I should say.
yeah, my 4 year old's teacher told me once (before we pulled her out) that I was "too involved" with her schooling, because I wanted to know what they were learning so I could help her practice it at home.

For the benefit of non-Americans, how old are children in "4th grade"?

That's what I do. I purchased some workbooks and use some online worksheets to give my daughter. She loves it because I use the extra work in order for her to earn computer priveleges, trips to McD'S, television time. We kind of "play school" and it gives her access to more advanced subjects and hopefully she will have the jump on them once her class begins learning those subjects.

But alas....I am one of those head butting parents. My daughter has been in her new school less than a month and I've already been to "visit" the pricipal and teacher three times. I'm taking a big stick next time. Well, an even bigger stick I should say.

That bad? :eek:

For the benefit of non-Americans, how old are children in "4th grade"?
10-11 I think.

better be careful, if you teach your kids too much it annoys the teachers


yeah, my 4 year old's teacher told me once (before we pulled her out) that I was "too involved" with her schooling, because I wanted to know what they were learning so I could help her practice it at home.

haha....well her teacher annoys me, so i guess we're even;)

For the benefit of non-Americans, how old are children in "4th grade"?

Approximately 9.

That bad? :eek:


Indeed.....be prepared for infuriating incidents that take place at school. I am sure I will end up on meds before she starts 3rd grade.

haha....well her teacher annoys me, so i guess we're even;)
yeah. It's your kid who has to put up with her most though, my kid got in trouble for reading during reading time. The teacher met with me "most kids don't know how to read until 8 or 9 around here, having a 4 year old reading makes the other kids uncomfortable" :rolleyes:

10-11 I think.
Approximately 9.

Well, whichever one it is, kids that old should be able to read! Bloody hell...

yeah. It's your kid who has to put up with her most though, my kid got in trouble for reading during reading time. The teacher met with me "most kids don't know how to read until 8 or 9 around here, having a 4 year old reading makes the other kids uncomfortable" :rolleyes:


Tell her your daughter isnt there to make the other kids comfortable. She's there to receive an education. That is ridiculous Smunk. *shakes head*

Well, whichever one it is, kids that old should be able to read! Bloody hell...
my math could be off

let see

K 5-6
1st 7-8
2nd 8-9
3rd 9-10
4th 10-11

nope looks right.

one of the questions..

"The dog pursued the cat." What does pursue mean?
A) chase
B) read
C) jump
D) listen

most of them chose B or D only one kid chose A, but he chose A for all the answers on his packet so I don't think he really knew.

Tell her your daughter isnt there to make the other kids comfortable. She's there to receive an education. That is ridiculous Smunk. *shakes head*
she probably wouldn't have called me about it, but she told my daughter to put the book away because it might "hurt others feelings, and they wouldn't feel good about themselves if she can read and they can't"

so she did, later in the day the teacher asked her a question and she just sat there the teacher said "why don't you answer?"

and my kid says "I was going to, but I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings"

the teacher called because my kid was "being a smart ass"

I pulled her out of school the next day. ;)

most of them chose B or D only one kid chose A, but he chose A for all the answers on his packet so I don't think he really knew.

That's amusing in a tragic kind of way. When I was 10-11 I was working on making my handwriting neat, not bloody learning how to read. And I didn't even go to a particularly good school. I mean, what do kids do at these American schools? When I was four, literacy and mathematics was all we did. What else would a school use the time for?

yeah. It's your kid who has to put up with her most though, my kid got in trouble for reading during reading time. The teacher met with me "most kids don't know how to read until 8 or 9 around here, having a 4 year old reading makes the other kids uncomfortable" :rolleyes:

Purely horrific.

That's amusing in a tragic kind of way. When I was 10-11 I was working on making my handwriting neat, not bloody learning how to read. And I didn't even go to a particularly good school. I mean, what do kids do at these American schools? When I was four, literacy and mathematics was all we did. What else would a school use the time for?
apparently the parents just send them for free babysitting. If they go into school with no vocabulary, I suppose it's hard to catch up, and it's even harder on the teachers having to deal with the trouble makers. My daughter was so bored in PreK that she was getting into trouble. I sat in on her class one day (the teacher wasn't very happy about it) but they were learning the color blue, 6 months into school and they knew 2 colors (red and yellow) and could count to 5.........no wonder my kid was bored. My 2 year old knows about 30 colors, and can count to 100. I had my 4 year old tested, she has the vocabulary of an 11 year old. Some of the kids in her class didn't even have the vocabulary of a 2 year old. Most of them couldn't tell you thier name, how old they were, or what city they lived in. I think parents just sit them down in front of Winnie the Pooh and then ship them off to school for the teachers to take care of.

Some of the kids in her class didn't even have the vocabulary of a 2 year old. Most of them couldn't tell you thier name, how old they were, or what city they lived in. I think parents just sit them down in front of Winnie the Pooh and then ship them off to school for the teachers to take care of.

Idiots. Why to they even have kids in the first place? Probably because of the sex education they didn't receive... it's a viscious circle.

Idiots. Why to they even have kids in the first place? Probably because of the sex education they didn't receive... it's a viscious circle.
it really is.

I think most people who have kids around here want the kids, but don't want to be parents. It's hard work if you do it right, and they don't think they should have to work at all, much less work hard.

I had a parent tell me the other day "I grounded him from the TV and he just kept watching it anyway" and I said why didn't you take the TV out of the living room and put it in the garage? They said "because then I couldn't watch TV"
:rolleyes:

my kid got in trouble for reading during reading time.
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/traurig/sad-smiley-007.gif

I think most people who have kids around here want the kids, but don't want to be parents. It's hard work if you do it right, and they don't think they should have to work at all, much less work hard.
Raising the kids is what I think makes the idea of having children appealing. Do these parents just want something cute to have around (they should get pets)?

I had a parent tell me the other day "I grounded him from the TV and he just kept watching it anyway" and I said why didn't you take the TV out of the living room and put it in the garage? They said "because then I couldn't watch TV"
:rolleyes:

According to all the American TV programs I've seen, grounding is supposed to involve being stuck in one's room, which pretty much fixes the problem without needing to move the TV.

According to all the American TV programs I've seen, grounding is supposed to involve being stuck in one's room, which pretty much fixes the problem without needing to move the TV.
most of the time they are stuck in thier rooms, sometimes you can get grounded from something (like grounded from the TV means you lose your TV privilages)

My kids have to earn thier privilages, either they earn them or they don't, they aren't ever going to "lose" something.

If you go to work you earn a check, if you don't then you don't get paid, that's how it works at my house. The way it works at her house is her kid gets everything he wants then if he screws up she takes something away. Basically it's like him not showing up for work, getting a check, then if he steals from the company they fine him $2.

my math could be off

let see

K 5-6
1st 7-8
2nd 8-9
3rd 9-10
4th 10-11

nope looks right.

you messed up at 1st grade.

K 5-6
1st 6-7
2nd 7-8
3rd 8-9
4th 9-10
5th 10-11
6th 11-12
7th 12-13
8th 13-14
9th 14-15
10th 15-16
11th 16-17
12th 17-18

you messed up at 1st grade.

K 5-6
1st 6-7
2nd 7-8
3rd 8-9
4th 9-10
5th 10-11
6th 11-12
7th 12-13
8th 13-14
9th 14-15
10th 15-16
11th 16-17
12th 17-18
yep, I see that now. thanks. :)

Just more proof that "you get what you pay for". If you would rather hoard your $ than allow the next generation a chance at success through good education (i.e. allow the government to fund schools to the logical level they requier in the form of *gasp* tax dollars) you are a despicable human being, period.

There is no reason, other than evil, unabashed greed (:D ) for allowing this to continue. Children deserve a better chance at making it in this world as adults. And, telling them to 'suck it up' because you're not willing to part with a small percentage of your income is abhorant. What's more important? That you have that smidgen of extra cash to fund your next vacation/appliance purchase/gasoline stop/whatever? Or, that this country's posterity be ensured a respectable place in the world by allowing for a proper learning environment for its children?

If you decide the former, go back to Dickens' version London where you belong!

better be careful, if you teach your kids too much it annoys the teachers


yeah, my 4 year old's teacher told me once (before we pulled her out) that I was "too involved" with her schooling, because I wanted to know what they were learning so I could help her practice it at home.


How sad! My daughter’s first grade teacher is always using above "grade level" materials in class to challenge her. In her school, in grades 3-5, they level kids in reading and math classes based on skill, not age. It increases the individual attention when students need it, and allows the students a certain degree of self-directed education, within the state prescribed curriculum.

And A through F grades for early elementary students? That seems a bit ridiculous. My daughter's report card has about 50 skills that they are graded on: Doesn't meet objectives, Meets objectives, and Exceeds objectives. Each of these is qualified with "Accomplishes tasks independently" or "Needs support." If a student is genuinely getting only 50% of their task done with accuracy, that needs to be addressed more than four times a year.

We've always "supplemented" our children's education at home. We just call it parenting. I've never met a teacher who didn't appreciate that, and more are beginning to expect it.

the only private school here that I trust is $27,000 a year, per kid, I have 2 kids so that's 54,000 a year. I can't afford that. The cheaper private schools around here are like 4,500 a quarter, but they are all fundamentalist Christian schools and don't teach science.

I make my own curiculum now, but next year I am buying some, it will only be about 1,500 for both girls. ;)

I was actually homeschooled before it was cool and trendy and everyone was doing it. Back when people said "Homeschooling? What's that?" And also back when the school district had never heard of it, and we just worked out a way where we were working with them. We worked it out so we borrowed whatever books of theirs we wanted - just like the kids in school did - and returned them at the end of the year. And we had a teacher there agree to review some work, and interview us every year to "prove" we were getting a decent education. We used other things too, but we used the public school curriculum as a guideline and basis for our schooling.

Thoughts?

I have a lot of friends who are teachers, most of them teach highschool, but my friend (let's call her Kelly) teaches 4th grade, she has basically taken over the class of a teacher who got fired, and is trying to get the kids "caught up". In the school system she is in the curiculum is based on passing the standardized test, so that the school can get more funding. She is upset that she can't teach what needs to be taught, because she is forced to teach to the test. There is an attitude that if it's not on the test it's not important.

I helped her grade papers yesterday because she had gotten behind, all of the assignments that I graded were for reading comprehension. It was basically read the story, and bubble in the answers. Out of 18 questions most kids were missing between 12 and 14 questions. :eek: I asked her "can't these kids read?"
and she said "probably not"

She gets out her little sliding grade thingy, and starts to actually grade the papers, I see the one she is working on and they got 8 out of 30 right, and she writes 50% on it.

I said "no wonder they can't read, thier teacher can't even do basic math"

"I can too, we aren't allowed to give them less than a 50"

"why not?"

"No Child Left Behind"

I don't get it, how exactly is this helping these kids? Oh, did I mention that they reworked the grade scale so that 50 is a low D?!

These kids are in 4th grade, they can't read, can't write ( I graded some essays too) they aren't being pushed to do any better, and they are only learning things so the school can get some extra $$......and then they aren't even graded correctly.

I don't think the education system needs more money, I think it needs people who are less interested in money and more interested in teaching kids, no offense to my friend but she didn't even seem to care that the kids can't read.

Essay question on one of the papers

1 Why is rekindle a word that a firefighter doesn't like to hear?
"Because he would have to re-do his homework"

:headbang:

In texas High Schools, the kids dont seem to be quite that stupid, and the grading system is not that lenient, but the management is just as "test-only" focused. we spend 90% of classes working on stuff just because it will be in the TAKS (texas assessment of knowledge and skills) and many of the teachers simply skip whole sections of the book because they are not in the TAKS. whats the point of a 1000 page textbook if you read 400 pages?

no offence, but i really really hope that you are in mississippi or something, and not like Conneticut.

Grades at my school: 100-90=A 90-80=B 80-70=C 70- below= fail

she probably wouldn't have called me about it, but she told my daughter to put the book away because it might "hurt others feelings, and they wouldn't feel good about themselves if she can read and they can't"

so she did, later in the day the teacher asked her a question and she just sat there the teacher said "why don't you answer?"

and my kid says "I was going to, but I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings"

the teacher called because my kid was "being a smart ass"

I pulled her out of school the next day. ;)

*evil giggle* man, Smunkee, you must be doing something right. I like your kid already. I don't think I could come up with a better comeback myself.

Why wouldn't the teacher think that your kid being able to read would inspire the other kids to learn too, not make them feel bad. Why is it that smart (or even average) people have to dumb themselves down to "level the playing field" instead of the stupid people trying to keep up, and just doing as well as they can? No wonder our educational system is in ruins. I say scrap self-esteem and feeling good ideals, and we'll be better off.

Just more proof that "you get what you pay for". If you would rather hoard your $ than allow the next generation a chance at success through good education (i.e. allow the government to fund schools to the logical level they requier in the form of *gasp* tax dollars) you are a despicable human being, period.

There is no reason, other than evil, unabashed greed (:D ) for allowing this to continue. Children deserve a better chance at making it in this world as adults. And, telling them to 'suck it up' because you're not willing to part with a small percentage of your income is abhorant. What's more important? That you have that smidgen of extra cash to fund your next vacation/appliance purchase/gasoline stop/whatever? Or, that this country's posterity be ensured a respectable place in the world by allowing for a proper learning environment for its children?

If you decide the former, go back to Dickens' version London where you belong!

you think that a system where teachers dont expect better than 50% comprehension and where parents dont even notice that their 9 year olds cant read will be cured by putting more money into it?

that school district needs a complete overhaul.

I was actually homeschooled before it was cool and trendy and everyone was doing it. Back when people said "Homeschooling? What's that?" And also back when the school district had never heard of it, and we just worked out a way where we were working with them. We worked it out so we borrowed whatever books of theirs we wanted - just like the kids in school did - and returned them at the end of the year. And we had a teacher there agree to review some work, and interview us every year to "prove" we were getting a decent education. We used other things too, but we used the public school curriculum as a guideline and basis for our schooling.

Thoughts?
The public school curriculum is problematic here, they don't study things that I think my kids need to know (like fractions, evolution, World War 2, the contenental congress, ect.) because they are not on "the test". I have some guidelines from the local college on "things a child needs to know by 3rd grade" that I am basing my lesson plans on now, and my husband's aunt is a chld development counselor so she has provided me with a lot of information regarding what skills (emotional, physical, educational) my girls need to have.

The public schools here don't send home books anymore, they have what they call "class sets" to save money, that way instead of having to buy books for 8 classes of 40 kids, they only have to buy 20 books (the kids work in a team of 2)

I always say though, do whatever works, so if it worked out for you I suppose it was a good thing.

Why wouldn't the teacher think that your kid being able to read would inspire the other kids to learn too, not make them feel bad. Why is it that smart (or even average) people have to dumb themselves down to "level the playing field" instead of the stupid people trying to keep up, and just doing as well as they can? No wonder our educational system is in ruins. I say scrap self-esteem and feeling good ideals, and we'll be better off.
I wonder what good is self esteem if it's false anyway.

I mean what's the good of giving a kid a "good grade" if they didn't earn it, so that they won't "feel bad", do they really think that's going to work out in the real world?

I don't have to "make my kids feel good" they have high self esteem because they actually have things to like about themselves.

Myself having been homeschooled from 4th through 8th grades, I can assure most people here that I learned more in those few years than I ever would have learned in the public education system. Much of that comes from the freedom my parents gave me to learn what I chose to, when I chose to. Not only that, I wound up teaching myself all my subjects between 5th and 8th grades (with assistance from my parents if I needed it).

When I reentered the public school system in the middle of the 8th grade at 14 (I was skipped from 1st to 2nd when I moved to the US from Australia), I was 1 question short of skipping pre-algebra and moving up to the algebra class (adv math for 8th graders) and I'd not even finished my pre-algebra book at home. How? Still not quite sure, probably has to do with having taught myself complex problems based on paying attention to the surrounding details.

Throughout high school, I took as many advanced / AP classes as I could. My senior year alone, I took AP Calc, AP English, AP European History, Analytical Geometry, AP Physics III, AP Spanish... Sure, I didnt have a 4.0 GPA...but, then again, I never really did homework in most of my classes and survived by aceing the tests (sure made many of my teachers a little frustrated...)

Now that I've been to college (for a bit) and in the Air Force (for a longer bit) and had to complete not only my initial Tech School, but continued job education through 2 different Career Development Courses (think correspondence education), I firmly believe being homeschooled has helped me more than any public education in the US would have. It's not what I learned while homeschooled, it's that I developed the ability to teach myself. The last CDC test I took (just a few weeks), I scored an 80 on. And that was studying less than half the information on the test (lost the first of the two volumes the test was over).


The answer to Public Education's problems is not "No Child Left Behind"... The answer is to drop more money into the education system and let the teachers choose how they teach. Take the money constraints away, let the teachers just worry about teaching what needs to be taught. Put more teachers in the classrooms, lower the student:teacher ratio, etc.

Think of what the school system could have been like if we'd spent as much on it as we've spent on the 'war' in Iraq...


(I apologize if my post isnt coherent / grammatically correct...I just woke up)

I'm already dreading the educational choices for my little goofball. It's very important to me that he attends public school. I'd also like him to get a first-class education. That being the case, I think I'm going to do what my mother did for me; Supplement his education at home.

But what I'm dreading most is knocking heads on school policy. I foresee trouble in that department. *nod*
what town are you in again? Berlin has a good school system, as does West Hartford, the HK area, and if you can afford and/or deal with the people down there, the greenwich area. I know for high school there is Xavier, and Mooreland Hill does a good job too (just a very small school which will probably be closing soon)

Ah, the grading system of my university is too...
We get interesting things like: There's X problems. You won't finish all of them. You need to solve Y problems correctly to pass. Whoever solves the most gets a 1.0, and it goes down the line that way. (Grading scale is 1.0 to 5.0, whereby 5.0 is failing)

At my college each professor made their own grading scale. I was majoring in mathematics, and I had one professor who taught statistics among other things, who had the oddest grading scheme I've ever seen. He would take each of his tests ahead of time, and if he could complete it all correctly in the time allotted, he'd make it harder and longer until he couldn't. Then he gave it to us. Then he curved it so whoever did best (and in that same range) got A's, and most people (and everyone around that average) got C's, and the other grades were awarded accordingly.

For some reason he got the nickname "Dean, the flunking machine."

I had another test by a semi-insane and eccentric but genius professor, which was multiple choice... in the sense that all the options were given, but he might give you options A-X, pick five. Every one you miss that is correct is -1, every one you pick that is wrong is -1, and you can earn up to 5 points for the question. It was an interesting test. There were 150 possible points, but it had the "normal" grading scale of 90 or above was an A, and 80-90 was B and so forth. The funny thing was, he had to curve it, because most of the class failed. He didn't think that was okay though, so anyone he curved up, he gave a huge extra-credit project (including finding out the correct answers to every question on the test) to "make up" for it.

Now if only they'd have these people in the public schools, and not worry about "self esteem" maybe we'd be better off.

At my college each professor made their own grading scale. I was majoring in mathematics, and I had one professor who taught statistics among other things, who had the oddest grading scheme I've ever seen. He would take each of his tests ahead of time, and if he could complete it all correctly in the time allotted, he'd make it harder and longer until he couldn't. Then he gave it to us. Then he curved it so whoever did best (and in that same range) got A's, and most people (and everyone around that average) got C's, and the other grades were awarded accordingly.

This makes perfect sense. An "A" student is supposed to be above the average student. A "C" student is supposed to be average. Anyone below a "C" is below average - points are only added for standardization purposes...


For some reason he got the nickname "Dean, the flunking machine."

I had another test by a semi-insane and eccentric but genius professor, which was multiple choice... in the sense that all the options were given, but he might give you options A-X, pick five. Every one you miss that is correct is -1, every one you pick that is wrong is -1, and you can earn up to 5 points for the question. It was an interesting test. There were 150 possible points, but it had the "normal" grading scale of 90 or above was an A, and 80-90 was B and so forth. The funny thing was, he had to curve it, because most of the class failed. He didn't think that was okay though, so anyone he curved up, he gave a huge extra-credit project (including finding out the correct answers to every question on the test) to "make up" for it.

Now if only they'd have these people in the public schools, and not worry about "self esteem" maybe we'd be better off.
I concur, whole-heartedly. More self-esteem will come from kids receiving the grades they've earned, rather than everyone earning the same grade so we dont hurt anyone's feelings (sounds an awful lot like PC gone overboard...)

The public school curriculum is problematic here, they don't study things that I think my kids need to know (like fractions, evolution, World War 2, the contenental congress, ect.) because they are not on "the test". I have some guidelines from the local college on "things a child needs to know by 3rd grade" that I am basing my lesson plans on now, and my husband's aunt is a chld development counselor so she has provided me with a lot of information regarding what skills (emotional, physical, educational) my girls need to have.

The public schools here don't send home books anymore, they have what they call "class sets" to save money, that way instead of having to buy books for 8 classes of 40 kids, they only have to buy 20 books (the kids work in a team of 2)

That's completely horrifying. I thought we were "educating" kids, not just getting them through a test or two, so they can be idiot adults. How do kids do homework without books? On a computer? (Somehow I doubt it.) Just with papers sent home? That sounds even more expensive than books.

I guess the library is your friend. I know we supplemented the school books with MANY other books, from the library, or from other places. (My dad is a bookseller by profession, so we had access to books much more easily than most people.) I'll have to look into what the options are around here, then. I'm told my state has very lenient homeschooling laws, and people move here to homeschool. I'm not 100% sure that's a good thing - it means you can teach your kid nothing, and nobody's gonna complain. But then, that's not really that different from the public schools, so I shouldn't be surprised.

a teacher got fired?

i thought teachers were so unionized, even if they got in trouble their job just got crappy, didnt think they could just be fired

I have a lot of friends who are teachers, most of them teach highschool, but my friend (let's call her Kelly) teaches 4th grade, she has basically taken over the class of a teacher who got fired, and is trying to get the kids "caught up". In the school system she is in the curiculum is based on passing the standardized test, so that the school can get more funding. She is upset that she can't teach what needs to be taught, because she is forced to teach to the test. There is an attitude that if it's not on the test it's not important.

I helped her grade papers yesterday because she had gotten behind, all of the assignments that I graded were for reading comprehension. It was basically read the story, and bubble in the answers. Out of 18 questions most kids were missing between 12 and 14 questions. :eek: I asked her "can't these kids read?"
and she said "probably not"

She gets out her little sliding grade thingy, and starts to actually grade the papers, I see the one she is working on and they got 8 out of 30 right, and she writes 50% on it.

I said "no wonder they can't read, thier teacher can't even do basic math"

"I can too, we aren't allowed to give them less than a 50"

"why not?"

"No Child Left Behind"

I don't get it, how exactly is this helping these kids? Oh, did I mention that they reworked the grade scale so that 50 is a low D?!

These kids are in 4th grade, they can't read, can't write ( I graded some essays too) they aren't being pushed to do any better, and they are only learning things so the school can get some extra $$......and then they aren't even graded correctly.

I don't think the education system needs more money, I think it needs people who are less interested in money and more interested in teaching kids, no offense to my friend but she didn't even seem to care that the kids can't read.

Essay question on one of the papers

1 Why is rekindle a word that a firefighter doesn't like to hear?
"Because he would have to re-do his homework"

:headbang:


-is glad he was in 4th grade during the clinton administration-Yeah My sister is in 7th grade, and seriously half of the students in here school are very capable of doing great, but they focus too much on the testing crap and consequently most of the kids are doing poorly in areas that they should have no problem with..Basic math, reading, writing, spellling, etc... Its really sad..Luckily sis takes after me and we don't have to worry about her doing poorly. :D

... I can assure most people here that I learned more in those few years than I ever would have learned in the public education system. Much of that comes from the freedom my parents gave me to learn what I chose to, when I chose to. ... It's not what I learned while homeschooled, it's that I developed the ability to teach myself. ...

Yes, yes, yes, yes, YES! I couldn't agree more. I tried taking a (supposedly very challenging private school) high school chemistry class, because my mom didn't think she could really do it justice without a lab. She thought I'd learn more in a school. So I sat in the back row, read the textbook and did my homework during the lectures (which were useless) and aced tests and homeworks. I then complained to my mom that it was too easy and I was bored, and why were we paying good money for this? She talked to the teacher, who said to give it some more try, and see if it didn't get harder. I just started turning in my homeworks as the end of the class when he assigned them. And continued getting the highest grade in the class without studying. At the end of the first semester, I went back and said I hadn't studied once, and I was quitting to go actually learn things, whether or not they liked it. I mean, lab was fun, but the experiments you do in high school aren't exactly all that interesting.

Anyway, I don't blame you if you quit reading that. Suffice it to say, school was boring and too easy when I was used to challenging myself. And the "social interaction" gained by it was with people with whom I did not care to be friends. It was a small private christian school and they were the ones who were always "holier than thou" stuck up little rich kids who made the news their senior year by writing "F*** [schoolname]" in red paint on their school, and throwing eggs out the windows at the camera crews. Yeah, great friends. Or not.

The answer to Public Education's problems is not "No Child Left Behind"... The answer is to drop more money into the education system and let the teachers choose how they teach. Take the money constraints away, let the teachers just worry about teaching what needs to be taught. Put more teachers in the classrooms, lower the student:teacher ratio, etc.

Now for the disagree part. "No child left behind" is dumb, as far as I know what it is. And teachers should choose how they teach. They need more teachers, less students, and more discipline without worrying about being PC. Or being sued. But I don't think we get that primarily by freeing them up from money contraints. A hundred years ago, kids were taught with FAR less money, and far more result. Throwing money at the schools isn't going to fix them. Yes, put more teachers in the classrooms, yes lower the student:teacher ratio, but take that money from the money used to buy fancy new buildings, playground equipment (go buy balls at the dollar store and tell them to be inventive), or whatever other junk they're actually buying with the money you'll throw at them.

At least in the district I'm currently in, they just asked for a HUGE budget (think millions) for all sorts of peripheral things, including buildings they don't even need yet, and renovations for buildings that were renovated ten years ago, but just aren't "cool" and "modern" anymore, (not like they're wanting to remove asbestos or anything) and other peripherals. But they're not giving it to teachers, or anything actually educational. Just to making the idiots more comfortable in their idiocy.

*climbs off her soapbox amid the catcalls and waves cheerfully*

a teacher got fired?

i thought teachers were so unionized, even if they got in trouble their job just got crappy, didnt think they could just be fired
well, she was a second year teacher, they have a policy in that school board that you only have a 2 year contract when you first start, kinda like probation, she didn't pass thier standards I guess, she wasn't going to get hired for next year and so she quit showing up, since she missed 3 weeks straight they fired her.

That's completely horrifying. I thought we were "educating" kids, not just getting them through a test or two, so they can be idiot adults. How do kids do homework without books? On a computer? (Somehow I doubt it.) Just with papers sent home? That sounds even more expensive than books.

they don't have homework, most of the time. I know someone who is in 9th grade and she has to pay $20 a semester for "copy fees" so that they can send home worksheets for geometry. She says they write a lot of essays, but she doesn't do it, since homework is only 10% of her grade, then if she aces everything else, she still gets an A and has a 4.0


I guess the library is your friend.
oh yeah, in more ways than one. They have daytime classes that are free for homeschoolers, weekend book readings, and overnight science camps for like $7.00

The local history, and science musuems have cheap classes for homeschoolers, last week they had a medical examiner come up and we could all 'autopsy' earthworms and ask questions about anatomy, it only costed $12 to cover the disection tray and the worm. (we didn't get to go because I was sick, but they are doing frogs in March)

The zoo is free on Mondays through the end of March so we will be taking advantage of that too, there are classes that are free for kids about animals, the environment, ect.

I don't think my kids would have this many experiences in public school, they are quite happy to get dragged around to all this stuff ;)

The education system, in any Country, is only as good as what is invested in it, and I don't just mean money.
The biggest problem I've found (I was a child minder for a while, and my ex is a teacher) is that many parents tend to think of school more as just somewhere to put their kids during the day so they don't have to bother with them. It's a waste of time complaining about an education system that doesn't have your children reading/writing et al by the time they're 8/10/whatever if when they join school they can barely talk. I've seen kids joining our local infant school at 5 and they can't even say their own name properly, so trying to teach them to do maths is, sadly, put to a secondary priority whilst the teachers are forced to do the things that the parents should already have done.

The local history, and science musuems have cheap classes for homeschoolers, last week they had a medical examiner come up and we could all 'autopsy' earthworms and ask questions about anatomy, it only costed $12 to cover the disection tray and the worm. (we didn't get to go because I was sick, but they are doing frogs in March)

Reminds me of the time I dissected an opossum we found dead in the yard. We think it got hit by a car and crawled away to die. Other than the smell, it was really cool. Big enough to really be able to see its parts easily, and I learned things with that I'm sure I'll never forget.

The education system, in any Country, is only as good as what is invested in it, and I don't just mean money.
The biggest problem I've found (I was a child minder for a while, and my ex is a teacher) is that many parents tend to think of school more as just somewhere to put their kids during the day so they don't have to bother with them. It's a waste of time complaining about an education system that doesn't have your children reading/writing et al by the time they're 8/10/whatever if when they join school they can barely talk. I've seen kids joining our local infant school at 5 and they can't even say their own name properly, so trying to teach them to do maths is, sadly, put to a secondary priority whilst the teachers are forced to do the things that the parents should already have done.

So the real question is how do you cure parents of their apathy?

I think most people who have kids around here want the kids, but don't want to be parents. It's hard work if you do it right, and they don't think they should have to work at all, much less work hard.
Raising the kids is what I think makes the idea of having children appealing. Do these parents just want something cute to have around (they should get pets)?

From the sound of it, they wouldn't even put in the necessary effor to properly train and take care of pets - it does take some effort.

Why wouldn't the teacher think that your kid being able to read would inspire the other kids to learn too, not make them feel bad. Why is it that smart (or even average) people have to dumb themselves down to "level the playing field" instead of the stupid people trying to keep up, and just doing as well as they can? No wonder our educational system is in ruins. I say scrap self-esteem and feeling good ideals, and we'll be better off.

Some people just have that mentality I suppose - and always have. When my mother was in 2nd grade, she was the youngest person in the class. The teacher originally refused to give her the A she had earned because the older kids might feel bad about having a younger child do better than them. Needless to say, my grandmother was in her office and talking to the principle the next day.

Of course, NCLB has just increased this mentality. If we want all children on the same level at the same time, it means we have to dumb down to the lowest common denominator, instead of paying attention to the fact that all children of the same age are not going to be at the same level - and shouldn't.

just found out that my state (in an effort to help kids math skills) are trying to pass a bill in the Senate that says that teens have to score a certain percentile on the math portion of the standardized test to be able to get thier driver's license.

not that it's entirely on topic, but what does math have to do with driving? it seems to me like they are worried that the kids aren't motivated enough to learn it so they are going to dangle the license in front of them like a carrot in front of a horse. :rolleyes:

I don't think the education system needs more money, I think it needs people who are less interested in money and more interested in teaching kids, no offense to my friend but she didn't even seem to care that the kids can't read.
Well, teachers have to make a living too, no matter how shabby it is.
Your kids bomb the standardised test, you get your teaching status examined. Better hope you have tenure.

It has been like this long time, long before No Child Left Behind. Teachers always taught to the test, while supposedly they wern't "supposed to." And after failing a grade so many time, teachers would just pass kids so they didn't have to deal with them. Well, they did at my redneck school. I was in elementary level classes with pre-teens and teens.

yeah. It's your kid who has to put up with her most though, my kid got in trouble for reading during reading time. The teacher met with me "most kids don't know how to read until 8 or 9 around here, having a 4 year old reading makes the other kids uncomfortable" :rolleyes:

W. T. F! I thought my old school was bad, but at least most of the kids could read by fourth grade! (Of course, many of my former classmates read on a second-grade level, but still...)

In texas High Schools, the kids dont seem to be quite that stupid, and the grading system is not that lenient, but the management is just as "test-only" focused. we spend 90% of classes working on stuff just because it will be in the TAKS (texas assessment of knowledge and skills) and many of the teachers simply skip whole sections of the book because they are not in the TAKS. whats the point of a 1000 page textbook if you read 400 pages?

no offence, but i really really hope that you are in mississippi or something, and not like Conneticut.

Grades at my school: 100-90=A 90-80=B 80-70=C 70- below= fail

Oh, yes, the TAAS and TAKS tests, banes of my existence from third through ninth grades. I will gladly vouch for Klitvilia's assertion that most teachers in Texas will not teach anything not found on the TEKS (the state-imposed guidelines that were/are tested on the TAAS/TAKS test), especially in the younger grades. Given my personal experience, I also say that American education in general and standardized testing in particular are geared entirely towards the least common denominator, much to the detriment of advanced classes and gifted education.

If standardized testing is must be used, I would much rather see standardized initial and final exams replace high-stakes mega-tests such as the TAKS test. The final exam would test mastery of (and perhaps insight into) the subject material, while the initial exam would allow students who already know the course material to get credit for the class and accelerate into a more advanced class. :)

I wonder what good is self esteem if it's false anyway.

I mean what's the good of giving a kid a "good grade" if they didn't earn it, so that they won't "feel bad", do they really think that's going to work out in the real world?

I don't have to "make my kids feel good" they have high self esteem because they actually have things to like about themselves.

I think the problem is our society's viewpoint that there is a set place at which any given student should be. Your children are obviously very intelligent and will be able to learn material more quickly than a student who needs more time. Does that mean that we should berate the other child? Of course not! We should make sure they know that people learn at different rates, and find something they do excel in (be it sports/crafts/whatever) and give some time to that as well so that they know their strengths.

I hate to say it, because it isn't popular, but every human being should not graduate high school by 18. Every person should not go to college. The only way to ensure these things is to dumb it all down to the least common denominator. What should happen is that a given person's strengths should be found, and each should work hard on his weaknesses as well.


I always said I would send my kids to public schools, but with things the way they are now, I don't think it'll happen. I don't think my fiance and I will be able to really do well on a single income, especially with him planning on going back to school when I get out, so it looks like private school it is.... *sigh*

I think the problem is our society's viewpoint that there is a set place at which any given student should be. Your children are obviously very intelligent and will be able to learn material more quickly than a student who needs more time. Does that mean that we should berate the other child? Of course not! We should make sure they know that people learn at different rates, and find something they do excel in (be it sports/crafts/whatever) and give some time to that as well so that they know their strengths.
berate them? no. I don't believe in it. I also don't believe in lying to a child, if they can't read, tell them "we need to practice your reading" don't just tell them they can and then throw them out into the world without even literacy and leave them wondering the rest of thier life what is wrong with them. I have heard it so many times "I made straight A's in school and then when I got out of highschool nobody would hire me, I don't understand"

People need to know thier strengths and weaknesses, if they are ever going to get better.

what town are you in again? Berlin has a good school system, as does West Hartford, the HK area, and if you can afford and/or deal with the people down there, the greenwich area. I know for high school there is Xavier, and Mooreland Hill does a good job too (just a very small school which will probably be closing soon)

Unfortunately, for personal reasons(Lamely that my wife is very paranoid about the internet), I can't say. However, I know of a few decent school systems in the area and generally speaking, Connecticut is not bad as far as public schools go. About the biggest concerns are environmental. For some reason, in the 40s and 50s, some dummies decided that old landfills and waste dumps would be good places to build new schools. :p

Unfortunately, for personal reasons(Lamely that my wife is very paranoid about the internet), I can't say. However, I know of a few decent school systems in the area and generally speaking, Connecticut is not bad as far as public schools go. About the biggest concerns are environmental. For some reason, in the 40s and 50s, some dummies decided that old landfills and waste dumps would be good places to build new schools. :p
ah yes...must protect the younger goofball...but in your house, I think it is more to protect the criminal. Someone might try to break into the house and end up in a tiger pit filled with pudding or get a shot to the nuts

but yeah, outside the major cities, pretty much all the schools are above national average. Environmental stuff is always fun too...like when I was cleaning the lights in our auditorium, and discovered that they were filled with asbestos. yum. And I just kept working and kept my mouth shut.

ces't la vie.

Problem with homeschooling is it keeps way to much influence with parents and destroys kids socially. They need to see different approaches to life and find their own beliefs. It also tends to be a huge leap from homeschooling to college or the workforce.

Wow, all of this is new to me. In my experience, No Child Left Behind (which I hate) has not affected the schools I have had any experience with like that, like creating the need to change the grading scale. I am 2 years out of HS, and our grading scale was the basic one (90-100A, 80-89B, etc.). At my mom's school, it is the same way.

I am a product of 13 years of public school education, and I think I turned out fine. Really, just because one "bad" incident happens doesn't mean that that is the way it is going to be the whole time. That would be faulty logic.

Problem with homeschooling is it keeps way to much influence with parents and destroys kids socially. They need to see different approaches to life and find their own beliefs. It also tends to be a huge leap from homeschooling to college or the workforce.
My problem with public schools is that my kid has to be around idiots.

Kids who are homeschooled are not "destroyed socially" in fact most of them do better socially.

It's not a huge jump from homeschooling to college any more than it is from regular school to college, homeschooled kids do better in college since they are used to working alone without a teacher breathing down thier necks.

Yeah, sad. I should become a teacher...I'd be a revolutionary teacher and a good one too. It sucks I have other things to do in life. :( Anyway...the American school system needs a huge overhaul starting with expelling kids with lower than a 70% true final average of major courses.

Wow, all of this is new to me. In my experience, No Child Left Behind (which I hate) has not affected the schools I have had any experience with like that, like creating the need to change the grading scale. I am 2 years out of HS, and our grading scale was the basic one (90-100A, 80-89B, etc.). At my mom's school, it is the same way.

I am a product of 13 years of public school education, and I think I turned out fine. Really, just because one "bad" incident happens doesn't mean that that is the way it is going to be the whole time. That would be faulty logic.
I am not talking about one bad incident, I am talking about an entire school distric's policy. Literacy in my state is almost last in the nation, I think I have a right to be worried about 4th graders that can't read. As far as "teaching to the test" it goes on in almost every state in America, and has been for a while.

I don't think that everyone who went/goes to public schools is illiterate or stupid (heck I went to public schools) I am just saying that it's a problem for me to send my kid if they are going to mess with everything so that they can get more money so that they can just teach more of "what's on the test" so that they can get more money next year.

See.. Only problem with being homeschooled is the fact that most parents have no idea what their talking about.

OH.. And most kids happen to be preety smart or up to date with most of other generations, only problem is that we dont feel like doing useless bookwork or take crap from some teacher that believes they have some strange and higher calling just cause their "teachers".

Problem with homeschooling is it keeps way to much influence with parents and destroys kids socially. They need to see different approaches to life and find their own beliefs. It also tends to be a huge leap from homeschooling to college or the workforce.

This is really only true if the parents, in addition to homeschooling, or perhaps as a part of it, shelter their children from other people and other views. Some homeschooling parents certainly do this - it is the entire reason to do it for some - but I doubt that all do.

Wow, all of this is new to me. In my experience, No Child Left Behind (which I hate) has not affected the schools I have had any experience with like that, like creating the need to change the grading scale. I am 2 years out of HS, and our grading scale was the basic one (90-100A, 80-89B, etc.). At my mom's school, it is the same way.

It sounds like your school hasn't really changed much yet. The problem is that this type of thing is the logical result of NCLB. You cannot truly "leave no child behind" without dumbing things down to the level of the slowest student.

I am a product of 13 years of public school education, and I think I turned out fine. Really, just because one "bad" incident happens doesn't mean that that is the way it is going to be the whole time. That would be faulty logic.

I was in public schools from 2nd grade on, and I am fine as well. Of course, my mother went out of her way to move us to a district with good schools. Even there, I had a few problems, but most of the teachers, at least in the upper level classes, were actually good teachers. The thing is that the "bad" incidents seem to be adding up - to the point that even I, a person who said she would absolutely put her children in public schools, don't think I will unless things improve drastically.

My problem with public schools is that my kid has to be around idiots.

And that's just the administration..... hehe

Yeah, sad. I should become a teacher...I'd be a revolutionary teacher and a good one too.

Unless you found a great school, you'd end up getting fired rather quickly, and would never get tenure, if you didn't walk the line. =(

I have a lot of friends who are teachers, most of them teach highschool, but my friend (let's call her Kelly) teaches 4th grade, she has basically taken over the class of a teacher who got fired, and is trying to get the kids "caught up". In the school system she is in the curiculum is based on passing the standardized test, so that the school can get more funding. She is upset that she can't teach what needs to be taught, because she is forced to teach to the test. There is an attitude that if it's not on the test it's not important.

I helped her grade papers yesterday because she had gotten behind, all of the assignments that I graded were for reading comprehension. It was basically read the story, and bubble in the answers. Out of 18 questions most kids were missing between 12 and 14 questions. :eek: I asked her "can't these kids read?"
and she said "probably not"

She gets out her little sliding grade thingy, and starts to actually grade the papers, I see the one she is working on and they got 8 out of 30 right, and she writes 50% on it.

I said "no wonder they can't read, thier teacher can't even do basic math"

"I can too, we aren't allowed to give them less than a 50"

"why not?"

"No Child Left Behind"

I don't get it, how exactly is this helping these kids? Oh, did I mention that they reworked the grade scale so that 50 is a low D?!

These kids are in 4th grade, they can't read, can't write ( I graded some essays too) they aren't being pushed to do any better, and they are only learning things so the school can get some extra $$......and then they aren't even graded correctly.

I don't think the education system needs more money, I think it needs people who are less interested in money and more interested in teaching kids, no offense to my friend but she didn't even seem to care that the kids can't read.

Essay question on one of the papers

1 Why is rekindle a word that a firefighter doesn't like to hear?
"Because he would have to re-do his homework"

:headbang:

:eek:

The more I hear things like this, the more convinced I become that when I have children, there's no way in hell they're going to attend American public schools.

My boyfriend is going to school right now to get his teaching credential, and the stories he tells me only reinforce my low opinion of the American public education system. The credential program he's in is known for teaching the "practical" side of becoming a teacher, but he has yet to learn anything even remotely useful. He is going to be a high school biology teacher. This semester, he is taking a class on literacy in schools, how to effectively use computers in your classroom, and a class that's supposed to help him apply for jobs. The literacy class seems to be about bringing your kids up to the appropriate reading level, and dumbing down your teaching for those who wouldn't otherwise be able to understand. The computer class is a complete joke, the professor is basically "teaching" them how to use the internet. :rolleyes: In the class that's supposed to help him with jobs and resumes, the teacher doesn't actually teach them anything, and once started the class with a five minute meditation session. No joke. And this is supposed to be one of the better credential programs in the state.

As part of the credential program, he does student teaching in the mornings. Last semester it was at a high school where he was teaching honors biology to 9th and 10th graders, this semester it's at a charter school where he teaches general science to eighth graders, and introductory bio to ninth graders. Both of the schools are ranked among the best in our region, and I am appalled. When he was teaching the honors biology class, two thirds of the class failed the first test that he gave them. When I asked him if it was a hard test, he gave it to me to look over, and having never taken biology in my life I could have passed it if I'd taken 30 minutes to memorize some definitions. He said that he was going to have to curve the test by 20%, so that if you actually got a 70%, the grade would be bumped to a 90%. I asked why he was going to reward students for not studying, and he said that he wasn't allowed to fail that many students.

In his science class this semester, he's actually teaching the students elementary physics. However, his students can't do algebra. You can imagine how well that's working out. His biology class is only slightly better. He gave a test two weeks ago where a girl came to class on test day and asked if she could take it later. When asked why, she said that she not only didn't understand the material, but also hadn't studied. Another student asked if he could explain the material; he asked what material and they said "all of it". It boggles the mind, it really does.

I'm becoming more and more grateful that I attended schools overseas where I had the freedom to take classes suited to my level of learning.

:headbang:

And that's just the administration..... hehe
yep. I would never call a kid an idiot, as far as I am concerned kids are works in progress, adults on the other hand I have no problems calling them idiots when they act like idiots.

This is why I love New Zealand. Not only do we start school at age 5 (another whole year at school ZOMG noes!), but our schooling is generally better, despite the ***-arse NCEA piece-o'-sheeyite system Trevor Mallard decided to foist on the public school kiddies way back in 2002.

Here's how my schooling has worked out so far:
Age 5-10: Devonport Primary School (and proud of it!)
Age 11-14: Junior College of New Zealand. (Private school).
Age 14-17 (i.e now): Senior College of NZ. (Private school, part of same school group as JCONZ).

Sounds like what the Yankees need is an extra year at school and a good old fashioned dose of common sense. :p

ah yes...must protect the younger goofball...but in your house, I think it is more to protect the criminal. Someone might try to break into the house and end up in a tiger pit filled with pudding or get a shot to the nuts



I'm still trying to talk my wife into letting me install the trap door. :p

100-90 A
89-80 B
79-70 C
69-60 D
59-0 F



That's the one we have in my school, we live in Maryland, in the U.S. So, I don't know. It may be just some school districts that are struggling. It really is sad how stupid people are becoming

One more reason I'm not having children.

Ah, the joys of testings. How I lothe thee. From making so that I must conform my curriculum and teachings to thy dictates, to the doom of low scores always hanging over my dinner plate (and ability to fill it).

Ah, the joys of testings. How I lothe thee. From making so that I must conform my curriculum and teachings to thy dictates, to the doom of low scores always hanging over my dinner plate (and ability to fill it).

I understand your view, but they really don't have a choice. I mean, they have to make sure that all the kids are being taught everything, and that there won't be any gaps. However, I do believe that if time permits they should be allowed to permit them extra. Not only that, but being a 9th grader, the tests that we are supposed to take at the end of the classes are stupid. Their questions are vague.

That's the one we have in my school, we live in Maryland, in the U.S. So, I don't know. It may be just some school districts that are struggling. It really is sad how stupid people are becoming

It really depends on the school district you attend. Some are worse than others and some just have it much worse than others. A person can't compare a school in Northern Virginia to a school in central D.C.

However, the U.S. makes up for its school system by having some of the best colleges in the world. They are'nt impossible to get into either.

I understand your view, but they really don't have a choice. I mean, they have to make sure that all the kids are being taught everything, and that there won't be any gaps. However, I do believe that if time permits they should be allowed to permit them extra. Not only that, but being a 9th grader, the tests that we are supposed to take at the end of the classes are stupid. Their questions are vague.
There are far better ways to find out if there are gaps than testing though.

For example, right now my 3rd year students (US 9th grade) are studying for their high school entrance exams. High stakes tests, very high stakes. They have been spending most classes from January cramming for these damn tests. Every class brings a mock English exam with grammar for them to bang their brains over.

However, except for a few kids, I cannot really say that they have a comfortable level of English. They would get flustured if I asked them "What's your favorite food?" But, because of the goal of getting them to past the entrance exams, we can't actually consentrate on speaking and listening, or actual communication. English is reduced to a subject of memorizing rules and spitting them out on the page.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing, the district she works for is one of the top in the state (not the crappy one I went to) now, I suppose I know why

thier grading scale

100-85 A
84-70 B
69-55 C
55-50 D
F doesn't exist

The grading scale at the school system I went to, and the one my 4 year old went to before we pulled her out

100-90 A
89-80 B
79-70 C
69-60 D
59-0 F
That's still pretty leinient but at least there is a failing grade.......

I'd like to see these kids survive on the Grade Scale I had through grade school...

A = 100-96
B = 95-91
C = 90-86
D = 85-79
E = <79

I'd like to see these kids survive on the Grade Scale I had through grade school...

A = 100-96
B = 95-91
C = 90-86
D = 85-79
E = <79

eww...thats awful. Where did you attend school?

eww...thats awful. Where did you attend school?

Virginia Beach, VA.... That was our grading scale in the early 80's

Virginia Beach, VA.... That was our grading scale in the early 80's
Hawaii... graduated Late 80's

and that scale brings back soo many memories.

Hawaii... graduated Late 80's

and that scale brings back soo many memories.

Ahh, you guys had it too.... Back when you pretty much had to stay below a 20% margin of error in order to pass (as opposed to today, where if you manage to get 1/2 right you pass)...

What is sad, because of social promotion, for the most part, now-a-days, even if they do less than 50% they still slide through the system... Where my wife teaches, the school isn't even allowed to make a child repeat a grade unless the parent OK's it....

It's so different now, it's a system where Laptops are provided to kids under the guise of supporting kids who do not have internet access at school [even though pretty much any parent who cannot afford to have a computer nor internet access at school, can't pay the fee for the laptop issuance], where the libraries are almost empty, where kids no longer have access to textbooks outside of the classroom, and parents no longer take an interest in their children't education [though do take an interest on what grades "the teacher is giving" their children].

The problem with the US public school system, is none other than the US citizen, the average US citizen does not care about education...