NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm starting to think it's not going to remain a War on Terror, but become a War on Islam.

At first, on 9/11, people were talking about nuking the middle east, even normal, non-racist people were talking about them "sand niggers" and bombing the "towelheads."

Then they toned down some. It became about the terrorists. The extremists.

Nowadays people talk about "Islamicists." But the line between them and Muslims seems to be drawn increasingly thinner by many people, in general. Some of them even just on this board, I'm sure, will be happy to express their opinions about what a violent, barbaric religion Islam is (and why Muslims should all be deported).

And of course, this plays into the extremists' hands. They want Jihad, they want the West to destroy itself making war on all Islam.

So my question is, is that what you want? Just have a nice big all-out war between whites/Westerners/democracists/Americans and Muslims/a-rabs/Islamicists/terrorists?

I don't, but I'm realizing that, when it comes to a battle of public opinion between Fear and Reason... Fear wins every time.

I'd personally think figuring out a way to evangelize to them without getting everyone killed would work a whole lot better than fighting, what, a couple billion people? When you've got those kind of numbers in a war, that destroys a humungous chunk of the world's population, even when it's over, you'll of dealt more damage than every terrorist attack that's ever happened just about. And what does that third option mean, "Melkor"?

No.

No. No one in there right mind WANTS war its just sometimes war is Needed.

It is not a war with Islam but rather a war with jihadis. The fact that some Lefties can't tell the difference is the Left's problem rather than anyone else's. And in case you didn't know it...kamekaze attacks on trade centers, firebombings on nightclubs in Bali and attempts to censor the press that come from Tehran do not qualify as friendly acts so I would count the war as having already started. Good of you to finally notice that something's going on. :rolleyes:

No, I really would like to keep the peace between nations and religions. Especially ones inside of said nation's borders.

Humanity loves a good war. Since homo habilis picked up a rock and saw it breaking the bones of a rotted meal, to the days of IEDs and 4GW.

If all goes well, the best I can hope for is to stay out of the way.

It is not a war with Islam but rather a war with jihadis. The fact that some Lefties can't tell the difference is the Left's problem rather than anyone else's. And in case you didn't know it...kamekaze attacks on trade centers, firebombings on nightclubs in Bali and attempts to censor the press that come from Tehran do not qualify as friendly acts so I would count the war as having already started. Good of you to finally notice that something's going on. :rolleyes:

1)Thats not what the question asked.
2)Iran had nothing to do with the Bali bombings or September 11th. Are you trying to link them?

The fact that some Lefties can't tell the difference is the Left's problem rather than anyone else's.
To be quite honest, I think the Right has more trouble with that than the Left.

Every religion has its wackos, just some (wackos, that is) tend to be more active than others.

Ordinarily, I would have voted no, but "Melkor" is too seductive an option.

Detroit1, Hookogi, IDF, I noticed you voted yes but didn't make a post. Is that because you can't really justify or make an argument for war, or do you just like to click the "yes" button in polls for fun?

Never gonna be such a war anyway. Islam is a religion, no state these days can legally declare war on a religion, only on another state. So for this to happen there would have to be some serious and major reforms to not just international law, but the basic international etiquite that has set itself up throughout most of the worlds nations these base hundred years.

Of course if there was a war, the Muslims get the support of this Pagan simply because such a war would be incredibly dumb. And I like the Arab world.

To be quite honest, I think the Right has more trouble with that than the Left. Oh really? I notice that whenever I refered to the jihadis there would always be a few leftists going "Wah! Wah! Wah! How dare you condemn the cute, fluffy Muslims. Wahhhhhhh!" Funny how that works. :p

*snicker* ^~^

So in order to educate the Left why don't I post something to help make clear that there *is* a distinction? ^_~

http://www.nrc.nl/opinie/article215732.ece

And of course, this plays into the extremists' hands. They want Jihad, they want the West to destroy itself making war on all Islam.



Huh? Please Explain.

Who "wants" war, ever? War sucks ass. The kid down the street dies, your friend dies, and families are torn asunder forevermore. War bytes. War's the devil. Sometimes it's necessary. Usually it's not.

Oh really? I notice that whenever I refered to the jihadis there would always be a few leftists going "Wah! Wah! Wah! How dare you condemn the cute, fluffy Muslims. Wahhhhhhh!" Funny how that works. :p

*snicker* ^~^

So in order to educate the Left why don't I post something to help make clear that there *is* a distinction? ^_~

http://www.nrc.nl/opinie/article215732.ece
Here's the reason they probably do that:
They realize you can't figure out the distinction for yourself and you will end up killing a bunch of innocents. Kinda like how you did and do in Iraq?

No. No war, please. See? I said the magic word even! ;)

And you know there is a song commin' on...

War - Huh!
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing

Oh really? I notice that whenever I refered to the jihadis there would always be a few leftists going "Wah! Wah! Wah! How dare you condemn the cute, fluffy Muslims. Wahhhhhhh!" Funny how that works. :p
Ahem...care to point me to it?

And I also have a set of links for you.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,399840,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,399653,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,399263,00.html (This is from the same lady that your link is from...not that I know what that has to do with the Left)
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,399965,00.html (This is from a smart guy whom I admire much)
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,400117,00.html (And this is one that is against the cartoons having been published)

Here's the reason they probably do that:
They realize you can't figure out the distinction for yourself and you will end up killing a bunch of innocents. Kinda like how you did and do in Iraq?

So take a good look at the "innocents" you defend.
:rolleyes:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004448.htm

So take a good look at the "innocents" you defend.
:rolleyes:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004448.htm

Oh, you did not just use Michelle Malkin to back up your point!

The Rights version of Michael Moore.

So take a good look at the "innocents" you defend.
:rolleyes:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004448.htmThe "innocents" he's "defending" are in "Iraq" and not the "UK"...

Oh, you did not just use Michelle Malkin to back up your point!

The Rights version of Michael Moore.

No, Michael Moore was never anything but a liar. Malkin's a careful researcher and her data tends to have a better accuracy rating than the New York Times or the BBC does. But thanks for reminding me of one reason that the Far Left is so eager to embrace dhimmitude. You are as much into censorship and preventing people from reading "forbidden knowledge" as the Jihadis are. :p

(This is a hypothetical answer because it is a hypothetical situation)

Well you all know which side I would be on in that war. I am Muslim before I am American and my loyalties are to Allah before the United States.

I imagine myself doing everything imaginable to preserve the peace and stop the war. I imagine I would go out like so many of my kind before: putting flowers in the barrels of soldiers's guns.

If I am not nearly immediately shuffled off to some internment camp, I suppose I would end up getting shot while trying to stop one of my brothers in Islam from shooting someone else.

This is not a war I would want. I like some of you and to think of you as "enemy" would be alien to me.

So ... no ... I don't want that war. I don't care to speculate on who would win or what the outcome would be because I already know that nobody would win and the outcome would be global shame.

No, Michael Moore was never anything but a liar. Malkin's a careful researcher and her data tends to have a better accuracy rating than the New York Times or the BBC does. But thanks for reminding me of one reason that the Far Left is so eager to embrace dhimmitude. You are as much into censorship and preventing people from reading "forbidden knowledge" as the Jihadis are. :p

ROFLMFAO!

*wipes tears away from eyes*

Ahhh...ahh....ah...
Thanks. I needed a good laugh... :D

So in order to educate the Left why don't I post something to help make clear that there *is* a distinction? ^_~


There is a disctinction. You don't make it.

That is your problem.

Malkin's a careful researcher and her data tends to have a better accuracy rating than the New York Times or the BBC does.
Whatever the source, your argument is rather weak. You post pictures of people that no one on this forum has defended, and claim we all do.

If you want to see innocents, there are much better pictures around.

Like these kids:
http://www.kfj.at/integration/Bilder/KG-Imst-02.jpg
They are a mix of German, Turkish and other kids, and they learn both German and Turkish in bilingual Kindergarten. Dhimmitude it is then.

Like these kids:
http://www.kfj.at/integration/Bilder/KG-Imst-02.jpg


I'd defend them.

So take a good look at the "innocents" you defend.
:rolleyes:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004448.htm

Wow! 8 pictures of assholes!

That sure does make me believe that every one of the 28,000+ dead Iraqis is guilty of crimes whose punishment is death. Yes it does. Good job, I'm a convert - if you're dead, you must be guilty (and a terrorist).



This post has been sponsored in part by Dripping Sarcasm, Inc.

The "innocents" he's "defending" are in "Iraq" and not the "UK"...

*sigh*

The fact that he would extend his defending to the kidnappers of Jill Caroll hardly make his case any better. :rolleyes:

That said, I have yet to see any jihadi anywhere whose boots went unlicked by some eager leftist would ever fail to lick. Sad but true. The Far Left really is the Dhimmitude faction. :p

But you might be interested in an Iraqi's opinion on these jihadis. :)

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/archives/2006_02_01_healingiraq_archive.html#113917375913497178

I want Melkor to smite the middle east with Grond.

Failing that, I say war. I want to deploy out, raise my c7a1(for the americentric, m16a2 with a target dot scope), pull the trigger, and GET SOME!

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=war

So take a good look at the "innocents" you defend.
:rolleyes:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004448.htm
Oh. Well perhaps you'd like to take a look see atv some of the USA's more admirable qualities:
http://dcmrg.english.ucsb.edu/WarnerTeach/E172/images/Boston.tea.party.1746.jpg Terrorism + Racism, good combo patriots :headbang:
http://www.hangmansknot.com/images/pic_lynched.jpg Who doesn't love a good lynching? Buy a flag commemerating the great event!
http://jimwestphoto.com/galleryRaceRelations/c-rw-02-07.jpg Ohhh, here's a fine American citizen.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/01/11/wabuse11a.jpg I'm glad our soldiers are doing so much good in Iraq. And they are so forgiving to Iraqis!
http://radfilms.com/radimages_gallery_nazis.JPG Another set of great Americans. Ones from the current administration's own heart I am sure.

This post has been sponsored in part by Dripping Sarcasm, Inc.

Awesome! I own stock in them!

That said, I have yet to see any jihadi anywhere whose boots went unlicked by some eager leftist would ever fail to lick. Sad but true. The Far Left really is the Dhimmitude faction. :p


I happen to be extremely and radically far Left. Even LaRouche is too conservative for my tastes.

Show me once where I have ever licked Jihadi boots.

Take yer broad brush and cram it, ugly. :p

That said, I have yet to see any jihadi anywhere whose boots went unlicked by some eager leftist would ever fail to lick. Sad but true. The Far Left really is the Dhimmitude faction. :p
You know that adding a smiley doesn't make it any less trolling, don't you?

Show me what you're talking about.

(This is a hypothetical answer because it is a hypothetical situation)

Well you all know which side I would be on in that war. I am Muslim before I am American and my loyalties are to Allah before the United States.

I imagine myself doing everything imaginable to preserve the peace and stop the war. I imagine I would go out like so many of my kind before: putting flowers in the barrels of soldiers's guns.

If I am not nearly immediately shuffled off to some internment camp, I suppose I would end up getting shot while trying to stop one of my brothers in Islam from shooting someone else.

This is not a war I would want. I like some of you and to think of you as "enemy" would be alien to me.

So ... no ... I don't want that war. I don't care to speculate on who would win or what the outcome would be because I already know that nobody would win and the outcome would be global shame.


I applaud this post. It's going up in a blog.

I applaud this post. It's going up in a blog.

Wow really? Nifty! Send me a link :)

That said, I have yet to see any jihadi anywhere whose boots went unlicked by some eager leftist would ever fail to lick. Sad but true. The Far Left really is the Dhimmitude faction.

Who are these 'lefties' you keep talking about? The Kennedys? The pinko commies? The Liberal Gay Hippie Jewish Black Southpaw Women Bootlickers Union of Nantucket? (No offence ment if anyone on this board is a member.) Ronald Reagan? It's difficult to tell when I don't know how far right you are...

Oh, by the way, I don't believe that the lack of disctinction is something that one side of the political spectrum is worse at than the other...

Do you WANT War with Islam?

No, not really. I'd rather stop the people who blow stuff up for fun and a sexier afterlife. :sniper:

Where there's war, there are civilian casualties. Asking for a war without civilian casualties is like asking for an aircraft carrier without a bottom. It has never happened.

I think we started waging war on Islam when we put Israel where it is and started screwing with their land and politics because they have oil.

Nowadays people talk about "Islamicists." But the line between them and Muslims seems to be drawn increasingly thinner by many people, in general. Some of them even just on this board, I'm sure, will be happy to express their opinions about what a violent, barbaric religion Islam is (and why Muslims should all be deported).

why yes... whatever could have given us that idea?

http://www.mtv.com/shared/promoimages/think/daily_news/cartoon_reaction_060207/180x180.jpg
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/CC93CDFD-FF84-40AB-B6E6-C6D2DF4D3DE8/111545/CF3E0BAC5B7A4B9EBC7F2A16126BB678.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41298000/jpg/_41298682_cartoonbody.jpg
http://www.middle-east-online.com/pictures/big/_15667_danish-consulate-6-2-06.jpg

it will forever remain a mystery...

why yes... whatever could have given us that idea?

http://www.mtv.com/shared/promoimages/think/daily_news/cartoon_reaction_060207/180x180.jpg
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/CC93CDFD-FF84-40AB-B6E6-C6D2DF4D3DE8/111545/CF3E0BAC5B7A4B9EBC7F2A16126BB678.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41298000/jpg/_41298682_cartoonbody.jpg
http://www.middle-east-online.com/pictures/big/_15667_danish-consulate-6-2-06.jpg

it will forever remain a mystery...

You're right. The news media is really big about showing that terrorists and Muslims are the same thing.

You're right. The news media is really big about showing that terrorists and Muslims are the same thing.

the news media? or the muslims themselves?

it seems they just don't get it.

it seems they just don't get it.

What don't I get?

Just to make things more controversial, ABORTION IS EVIL RAR, It's killing innoncent people, but killing adults is fine, they're evil! JIHAD JIHAD! GOD wants them to die, but they say God wants us to die. God hates everybody!! Blind faith in the media and the leadership!!! Conformity is the only answer, kill everything, except unborn babies!!!

Oh, sorry, I was being right-wing mentallity.

First of all, as a man who sees God used as a reason to kill people, as a being who hates the non-believers, and considers all non-christians evil, I have to say fuck that God. I would have to say Satan must be the lesser of two evils if that's how God is.

War is never necessary, but go ahead and tell yourself that it is. It takes one wrong side to start a war, and the other has to participate, true. But this time America is the wrong side, we're not being attacked in our country. Iraq is defending itself, and honestly being smashed by an opressor. When was the last major terrorist attack, September 11th? Iraq wasn't part of that. It's ironic that right wing people should talk about distinction problems, eh? War on terror is also hilarious. "Let's slaughter the population of country because a few of their people killed a few of our people. That makes us the greater good."

All this war is doing is proving to the world that were [I]way better at Terrorism than anybody else.:mp5: :sniper: :gundge:

I think we need to get rid of Iran and Israel. 2 BIG PROBS. I dont want war but I think it might be needed.

Wow really? Nifty! Send me a link :)

Oh, it's nothing big. All of 20 people will read it. And it's nothing more than an 18 year old's xanga. But alas, http://www.xanga.com/something_normal is where you can find it.

What don't I get?

that you know what? we're not bound by your silly little rules. this is the 21st century, a time for freedom, and understanding, not rioting over some goddamned cartoon.

it's a fucking cartoon. get over it.

you know how many times jesus, or moses, or god, or even buddha have been put cartoons or whatever? countless times.

i don't see those folks rioting.

muslims say (probably thruthfully) that their religion does not endorse hatred or violence. then my question is - what the hell has happened to islam?

I don't want a war. People sould be free to say, or believe, what they wish.

What I would like is for the silent majority of muslims to actively join my side in this.

I think we need to get rid of Iran and Israel. 2 BIG PROBS. I dont want war but I think it might be needed.
Israel yes, Iran is fine as long as they sit in their corner reading the Qu'ran and not make nukes.

we're not bound by your silly little rules.

When have I ever said you were?

this is the 21st century, a time for freedom, and understanding, not rioting over some goddamned cartoon.

A time for freedom ... except the freedom to be Muslim, eh? Well, ok then.

it's a fucking cartoon. get over it.

... and when did I riot or burn anything?

you know how many times jesus, or moses, or god, or even buddha have been put cartoons or whatever?

Don't know ... don't care.

i don't see those folks rioting.

Look harder.

what the hell has happened to islam?

People like you continue spreading lies about it and broadbrushing 1.5 billion people based on the actions of less than 10,000 people. That's what happened.

I ask again ...

What don't *I* get?

that you know what? we're not bound by your silly little rules. this is the 21st century, a time for freedom, and understanding, not rioting over some goddamned cartoon.

it's a fucking cartoon. get over it.

you know how many times jesus, or moses, or god, or even buddha have been put cartoons or whatever? countless times.

i don't see those folks rioting.

muslims say (probably thruthfully) that their religion does not endorse hatred or violence. then my question is - what the hell has happened to islam?

There is no more or less understanding in the world than there has ever been. 21 is just a number.

And by the same token, since now we're going to talk about a comic strip, this comic strip is just picking a fight for the sake of a fight. Like the NRA going to Denver ten days after the Columbine shootings, like the KKK having a rally in Skokie, Illinois, a large jewish and african american community. It's like, "Let's see how much shit we can start!" Both sides of the comic thing need to sit down and shutup. It's ridiculous on all ends of the issue.

I did not mean you personnally. i don't know you, and have no idea what you do or do not get. i am merely saying what i have observed - maybe based on a minority, but certainly the most active.

When have I [muslims] ever said you were?

through the actions seen in the last couple of weeks, i would say that many muslims expect the west to follow their laws.


A time for freedom ... except the freedom to be Muslim, eh? Well, ok then.

the freedom to oppress? not one guaranteed by anyone.

... and when did I riot or burn anything?

i don't know.

Don't know ... don't care.

why not? they are precedents. i was just saying that the muslim response has been an extreme one for a rather mundane situation.


People like you continue spreading lies about it and broadbrushing 1.5 billion people based on the actions of less than 10,000 people. That's what happened.

i think it has less to do with people's perceptions and more to do with what the world sees and hears overseas. when the west sees riots over cartoons, we have to wonder, "why?".

but that wasn't my point. my point was that if islam is, as it is claimed, being purposefully misinterpreted by the likes of bin laden, it is largely in part to the hatred of the west evident in many muslims who, unlike you, really know nothing about this great land.

Both sides of the comic thing need to sit down and shutup. It's ridiculous on all ends of the issue.

really? i don't see anything ridiculous anout publishing an editorial cartoon.

snip!


The fact remains that lots of people all over the world have gone ballistic over this cartoon, when it really shouldn't have provoked that. I mean, some countries (At least I THINK a country besides Iran, but definitely Iran) have cut ties with the nation that printed the cartoon! You don't see hordes of Christians out there burning embassies when someone prints a cartoon of Jesus blowing up Planned Parenthood, do you?

*sigh* I'd take Islam more seriously if it didn't take itself TOO seriously all the time. This violent rioting doesn't help their image, and some people are going to take the actions of a few as the actions of many. I hope that doesn't happen, but you know people...

The fact remains that lots of people all over the world have gone ballistic over this cartoon, when it really shouldn't have provoked that. I mean, some countries (At least I THINK a country besides Iran, but definitely Iran) have cut ties with the nation that printed the cartoon! You don't see hordes of Christians out there burning embassies when someone prints a cartoon of Jesus blowing up Planned Parenthood, do you?

*sigh* I'd take Islam more seriously if it didn't take itself TOO seriously all the time. This violent rioting doesn't help their image, and some people are going to take the actions of a few as the actions of many. I hope that doesn't happen, but you know people...Most of the people going ballistic and burning stuff down were looking for an excuse anyway or were pushed in that direction by the local government.

really? i don't see anything ridiculous anout publishing an editorial cartoon.

It becomes ridiculous when publishing it is entirely obnoxious, and no longer serves a purpose. All it's doing is pissing off a whole lot of people, and not making a legitimate statement in the process. Like I said. NRA after Columbine, KKK in Skokie. Sure, you have the right to, but don't do it for the sake of being an asshole.

Most of the people going ballistic and burning stuff down were looking for an excuse anyway or were pushed in that direction by the local government.

So it was merely governments hostile to Europe and the West egging the people into a good old-fashioned riot? Well, that sounds better than independent choice... kinda.

but that wasn't my point. my point was that if islam is, as it is claimed, being purposefully misinterpreted by the likes of bin laden, it is largely in part to the hatred of the west evident in many muslims who, unlike you, really know nothing about this great land.

I wanted to harp on this for a moment ...

You say "many" ... what do you mean?

There are, by most counts, 1.2 to 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.

How "many" of those are the kinds of which you speak? How "many" are rioting over cartoons? How "many" are strapping on bombs? How "many" are hijacking airplanes?

Compare your "many" to the total.

I'm guessing it's less than 0.2%. With such a minority, why are you worried?

The fact remains that lots of people all over the world have gone ballistic over this cartoon

Define "lots".

Try to remember that the 99.999999999% of peaceful Muslims are not news worthy. Turn off your TV and define "lots".

So it was merely governments hostile to Europe and the West egging the people into a good old-fashioned riot? Well, that sounds better than independent choice... kinda.Or areas where there is a lack of security. Lebanon is everything but safe. Coincidentally, the Danish Consulate was in a Christian neighborhood, and there has been much enmity in Lebanon...

Sure, you have the right to, but don't do it for the sake of being an asshole.

i don't think they were published with the goal of being an asshole. they were published because the cartoonist was tryin to get a point across.

i mean, have you seen the cartoons? they're harmless.

http://www.uriasposten.net/pics/JP-011005-Muhammed-Westerga.jpg

not worth a riot in my book...

Define "lots".


Perhaps an insignificant majority of the whole Muslim population, but enough to riot in numerous cities and burn embassies and the like.

The same "lots," I'd say, as the number of soldiers killed at Antietam Creek.

EDIT: On average, at each hotspot.

Most of the people going ballistic and burning stuff down were looking for an excuse anyway or were pushed in that direction by the local government.

I don't mean to suck up, but Laerod is one insightful individual. I've noted that to myself for months, but never said anything about it. Props to you, Laerod.

Everything that happens in an environment influences a person. One cannot ignore all the other stimuli being placed on the muslim communities who are reacting the way they are to the cartoon. It may just be the straw that breaks the camel's back. That is in no way meant to have any pun in it. It's just a fitting expression.

not worth a riot in my book...

That's because you're seeing it through your eyes.

Is there anything you feel passionate about? Anything at all? Are you a pro-choice advocate or women's rights or pro-Bush? Does the image of Michael Jackson dangling his baby from a balcony make you want to slap him?

Do you have no personal cause?

Have you never been riled up by an image?

If you say no, I'll call you a liar.

Perhaps an insignificant majority of the whole Muslim population

Then you cannot paint us all with the same brush. Just as a beard does not a philosopher make, so it is true that a news camera does not a religion make.

There are, by most counts, 1.2 to 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.

How "many" of those are the kinds of which you speak? How "many" are rioting over cartoons? How "many" are strapping on bombs? How "many" are hijacking airplanes?


enough to make a difference


I'm guessing it's less than 0.2%. With such a minority, why are you worried?

because ".2%" of 1.5 billion people is a lotta people.

i don't think they were published with the goal of being an asshole. they were published because the cartoonist was tryin to get a point across.

i mean, have you seen the cartoons? they're harmless.

http://www.uriasposten.net/pics/JP-011005-Muhammed-Westerga.jpg

not worth a riot in my book...

Recently a Texas high school did a play about Pentecostal Snake Handlers. I read the script, saw snapshots of the sets. It could find nothing in there that would be offensive. However, when you are of the faith that is being depicted, whether or not it is in a negative manner, you look for the abuse and offense. There were angry letters written to the school, newspaper articles printed in the local papers. It was the same thing on a more local scale. People see something that relates to them specifically, and it isn't positive, they get offended. Happens with anyone. Not expressly Muslims, and not intrinsically harmless.

enough to make a difference

A difference in what?

because ".2%" of 1.5 billion people is a lotta people.

The same percentage of Muslims who use terror and suicide bombings and violence is the same percentage of humans who rape little girls.

Should we wipe out the human race now?

I'm thinking you need to focus on individuals and stop broadbrushing. I know it's more comfortable to broadbrush, but be warned that some day the brush will be on you.

Then you cannot paint us all with the same brush. Just as a beard does not a philosopher make, so it is true that a news camera does not a religion make.

I agree. Unfortunately, others cannot see past the news cameras, and that is the fundamental problem at hand here. As is happening increasingly, it seems, what we watch is all we know.

enough to make a difference

Especially with such caucocentric portrayals of them. I come from a Catholic family. I can count more offenses of christianity against the world than any other religious group. It's all a matter of the eyes you're seeing through, and the western world is seeing through the eyes of a media system that would make Edward R. Murrow cringe.

There were angry letters written to the school, newspaper articles printed in the local papers.

angry letters... angry rioters burning embassies.

I agree. Unfortunately, others cannot see past the news cameras, and that is the fundamental problem at hand here. As is happening increasingly, it seems, what we watch is all we know.

Aye ... and this is a fundamental problem with humans in general.

angry letters... angry rioters burning embassies.

Same emotions. Different political climates. Besides, there's a big difference between burning an embassy and burning a high school.

I am reminded of the minister who told his youth group to beat up gothic kids. Then 20 of them jumped 4 of their gothic high school classmates and hospitalized them. 2 might have died, I'll have to check the story again. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan. Everyone is equally violent. Who the flavor of the month is the question of who gets the highlight reels.

A difference in what?

oh, honestly. do you do this in normal conversation? *sigh*

i meant that the number of people you implied is more than adequate for the campaigns of terror run by the terrorists.

I know it's more comfortable to broadbrush, but be warned that some day the brush will be on you.

if you ever quit your day job, you could always write fortune cookies messages.


that was a joke. don't get all angry. just a joke.

Same emotions. Different political climates.

different levels of rationality.

and from your reaction to the snake handlers' complaints, different levels of success.

oh, honestly. do you do this in normal conversation? *sigh*


Unfortunately, as a Muslim, yes I do. This is a normal day to day thing. Because a couple thousand people have made the news, I now have to spend at least 2 hours out of any 24 hour period defending the fact that I'm Muslim.

I pray you never have to do the same.

i meant that the number of people you implied is more than adequate for the campaigns of terror run by the terrorists.

Fine. So long as we call them "terrorists" and not "Muslims".

if you ever quit your day job, you could always write fortune cookies messages.

I'd only send out billions that said, "That Wasn't Chicken". ;)

that was a joke. don't get all angry. just a joke.

The fact that you think you have to qualify that is what makes me so aggravated. I have a delightful and witty sense of humor. Unfortunately, you think that because you're talking to a Muslim, you have to qualify when something is a joke.

It's why I hate Jihadists so fuckin' much. Every move they make puts it one step closer to my son having to wear an arm badge in public.

different levels of rationality.

and from your reaction to the snake handlers' complaints, different levels of success.

The complaints were coming from devout christians of all denominations. I don't think a single snake handler was present. It was the Dallas area, not Bufu.

Should we wipe out the human race now?


Yes.

Yes.

HAHAHAHA! Oh man, thank you for the much needed comic relief. What timing!

Unfortunately, as a Muslim, yes I do. This is a normal day to day thing. Because a couple thousand people have made the news, I now have to spend at least 2 hours out of any 24 hour period defending the fact that I'm Muslim.

I pray you never have to do the same.

no, no, no, not that. the making me define every single term, even when i believe it is adequatly clear what i meant.

The fact that you think you have to qualify that is what makes me so aggravated. I have a delightful and witty sense of humor. Unfortunately, you think that because you're talking to a Muslim, you have to qualify when something is a joke.

well, you were disagreeing so much, that i figured if i didn't, you'd take it as an insult and get even more offended.

was it based on you being a muslim? maybe. it's hard to say. i just added it to my post at the last minute. interpret it as you will.

It's why I hate Jihadists so fuckin' much. Every move they make puts it one step closer to my son having to wear an arm badge in public.

Perhaps that is why they're doing everything they do. A group that's stereotyped and repressed will become like a cornered animal, and that's when they'll be the ones all the Muslims listen to. Or at least they might hope for that.

The basic question is flawed in its assumption that Islam is a monolithic entity. It is not, just as Christianity is not, just as white people are not.
Not only are few white non-muslim people going to support a war against islam, but few non-white muslims are going to support a war against "the West"

Perhaps that is why they're doing everything they do. A group that's stereotyped and repressed will become like a cornered animal, and that's when they'll be the ones all the Muslims listen to. Or at least they might hope for that.

I know when I get tired of hearing from people trying to convert me to christianity from my secular awesomeness, I sometimes lose patience with them and put down the Principle of Charity, and my understanding, and I word-slap the hell out of their blind sheep join-us-so-you-don't-burn-in-hell-because-we-love-you-and-jesus-died-for-you-you-ungrateful-sinning-wretch asses...

I'm human. Sometimes enough is enough, and I want them to shut the fuck up. Sure, ideally, no one would ever resort to that, but to ask anyone to be more than human, which is to say, less than flawed, is just foolish.

Ain't no different with the Islamic community that is sick and tired of putting up with the judeo-christian centered opinions of them.

That's because you're seeing it through your eyes.

Is there anything you feel passionate about? Anything at all? Are you a pro-choice advocate or women's rights or pro-Bush? Does the image of Michael Jackson dangling his baby from a balcony make you want to slap him?

Do you have no personal cause?

Have you never been riled up by an image?

If you say no, I'll call you a liar.

Yeah of course I have been riled up by an image. But I didn't go out with a sign demanding the extermination of that person's people, I didn't go out and burn down an embassy and I didn't demand that people apologise for exercising their right to free speech. And I've been pretty damn offended by some things.

Yeah of course I have been riled up by an image. But I didn't go out with a sign demanding the extermination of that person's people, I didn't go out and burn down an embassy and I didn't demand that people apologise for exercising their right to free speech. And I've been pretty damn offended by some things.

And how would you react if you were living in poverty so deep that you had no A/C, no education, and no running water?

Of course you didn't. You could express your indignation from the comfort of your own home on high speed internet from a state of the art computer with ice in your scotch and cable television.

Yeah of course I have been riled up by an image. But I didn't go out with a sign demanding the extermination of that person's people, I didn't go out and burn down an embassy and I didn't demand that people apologise for exercising their right to free speech. And I've been pretty damn offended by some things.

The things you were offended by weren't breaking laws that are holy to you (in all probability). It's a culture. And it just so happens that it's the culture of a people that Western civilization is constantly pissed off at. You get anyone from any culture pissed off enough, and they'll react by burning embassies. Besides, I've heard plenty of Americans calling for the extermination of plenty of people. That is nothing new, and to take it more seriously because it's coming from muslim extremists is just such a hypocrisy.

And how would you react if you were living in poverty so deep that you had no A/C, no education, and no running water?

Of course you didn't. You could express your indignation from the comfort of your own home on high speed internet from a state of the art computer with ice in your scotch and cable television.

Well, I don't have aircon, and its 32 degrees here.

I don't have high speed internet (I'm on dial-up), I don't have a state of the art computer (can't afford one), I don't drink scotch, and we only have cable coz we choose to live in a poorer area so we can afford the comforts of life.

And funnily enough, I don't see the south Americans (who are devoutly Christian for a significant part) rioting every time Jesus or God gets joked about (even though its against their religion too.) I don't see all the Samoans in my area burning down buildings because someone drew a funny picture of Jesus (even though they are devoutly Christian). I don't see the Japanese, Koreans, Chinese etc. holding Days of Anger and burning down embassies in their countries every time Buddhism is made fun of.

I honestly don't see the point in rioting over cartoons. I happen to agree that it is despicable that the media is positioning the world to believe that the small few doing these actions are representative of the majority of Muslims (having known some decidedly non-terroristy, misogynistic etc. Muslims). But it's still wrong to threaten people who don't agree with your beliefs.

The things you were offended by weren't breaking laws that are holy to you (in all probability). It's a culture. And it just so happens that it's the culture of a people that Western civilization is constantly pissed off at. You get anyone from any culture pissed off enough, and they'll react by burning embassies. Besides, I've heard plenty of Americans calling for the extermination of plenty of people. That is nothing new, and to take it more seriously because it's coming from muslim extremists is just such a hypocrisy.

So what? So because they weren't holy to me, I don't have a right to be pissed? I am constantly pissed off at the sexist, and sometimes overtly misogynistic way women are represented in the media. As a woman who drinks, I was horrified at the police commissioner for NSW who said that drink spiking was a myth, perpetuated by women who drink like men and then can't deal with the consequences. I didn't threaten to exterminate his family, or the police force. I didn't burn down the police building in my neighbourhood. I wrote a letter to the newspaper, and to magazines, relating my own opinions about drink spiking.

What you are doing is suggesting that it is appropriate for people to threaten violence against others, and to carry out that violence, because their religious beliefs are threatened. Do you support those Christians who call for the extermination of abortion providers and pro-choicers, because their existence is an insult to that particular Christian belief?

So what? So because they weren't holy to me, I don't have a right to be pissed? I am constantly pissed off at the sexist, and sometimes overtly misogynistic way women are represented in the media. As a woman who drinks, I was horrified at the police commissioner for NSW who said that drink spiking was a myth, perpetuated by women who drink like men and then can't deal with the consequences. I didn't threaten to exterminate his family, or the police force. I didn't burn down the police building in my neighbourhood. I wrote a letter to the newspaper, and to magazines, relating my own opinions about drink spiking.

Never said you didn't have the right to be angry. You do. I'm with you there, the things you listed there offend me as well. But they do not incite the kind of anger that an attack on the basis of the structure of your life and belief system does. It is a matter of how important the issue is to an individual. If their existence is based on an idea, and that idea is attacked, well shit, no wonder they're burning things.

What you are doing is suggesting that it is appropriate for people to threaten violence against others, and to carry out that violence, because their religious beliefs are threatened. Do you support those Christians who call for the extermination of abortion providers and pro-choicers, because their existence is an insult to that particular Christian belief?

No, no, no. I am not suggesting that it is appropriate for people to threaten violence against others, or carry out that violence, for ANY reason. My point is not to justify the actions of the few, but to refute the opinion of the many based on the actions of the few.

Never said you didn't have the right to be angry. You do. I'm with you there, the things you listed there offend me as well. But they do not incite the kind of anger that an attack on the basis of the structure of your life and belief system does. It is a matter of how important the issue is to an individual. If their existence is based on an idea, and that idea is attacked, well shit, no wonder they're burning things.



No, no, no. I am not suggesting that it is appropriate for people to threaten violence against others, or carry out that violence, for ANY reason. My point is not to justify the actions of the few, but to refute the opinion of the many based on the actions of the few.

Yeah. As I said in an earlier post, I think it is a shame that the media attempts to portray the actions of these few as representative of the many. But I still hope that the few that are advocating violence and burning buildings get punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Never said you didn't have the right to be angry. You do. I'm with you there, the things you listed there offend me as well. But they do not incite the kind of anger that an attack on the basis of the structure of your life and belief system does. It is a matter of how important the issue is to an individual. If their existence is based on an idea, and that idea is attacked, well shit, no wonder they're burning things.


Well, see drinking alcohol is a part of my existence. Clubbing is a part of my existence. So I felt my existence was under attack. Since this minister basically said, "Girls, if you dare to consume alcohol, and then you get raped, its your own damn fault." That is a direct attack on my freedoms, and my lifestyle.

Well, see drinking alcohol is a part of my existence. Clubbing is a part of my existence. So I felt my existence was under attack. Since this minister basically said, "Girls, if you dare to consume alcohol, and then you get raped, its your own damn fault." That is a direct attack on my freedoms, and my lifestyle.

You'll get no argument from me about the media sucking butt and the perpetrators of violence deserving punishment for not finding a better outlet for their displeasure.

I also say fuck that minister.

When a person is born and raised with only one supreme law that divinely demands never to be deviated from, and the world they see IS that law, and everyone in that world they see sees the same thing, then they are completely encapsulated within that Holy ordinance. When an outsider takes a pen and draws a cartoon that says to their Divinity, "Fuck y'all," it is vastly offensive. Alcohol may be a part of your existence, but their religion comes as close as anything can to actually BEING their existence. We look at serial rapists the way they look at blasphemers.

Long range culture shock is what this deal is.

You'll get no argument from me about the media sucking butt and the perpetrators of violence deserving punishment for not finding a better outlet for their displeasure.

I also say fuck that minister.

When a person is born and raised with only one supreme law that divinely demands never to be deviated from, and the world they see IS that law, and everyone in that world they see sees the same thing, then they are completely encapsulated within that Holy ordinance. When an outsider takes a pen and draws a cartoon that says to their Divinity, "Fuck y'all," it is vastly offensive. Alcohol may be a part of your existence, but their religion comes as close as anything can to actually BEING their existence. We look at serial rapists the way they look at blasphemers.

Long range culture shock is what this deal is.

It doesn't give them an excuse to advocate genocide. Whoever they are. Catholics feel the same about their religion. They didn't start advocating the mass-murder of Americans because Dan Brown wrote a book. And if they did, I'd have the same opinion of those Catholics as I do of the few Muslims who are advocating genocide over cartoons.

It was not the inclusion of alcohol, but rather the inherent misogyny against women, the "you-get-raped-its-your-own-damned-fault-you-stupid-whore-now-get-back-in-the-kitchen-where-you-belong" mentality. I can't help being a woman. So to me, its the same thing. And whilst I abhor serial rapists, I would not call for the genocide of an entire nation of people, because they happened to have a few serial rapists in them. I also wouldn't call for the death of the rapists.

Firstly about the comic thing, I think both sides are at fault. Thr press does have the freedom of speech on their side. But what I think most people forget in our moder age is that with freedom comes the responsibilty to use that freedom. Again and again I have seen the media abuse this freedom. Not checking the story on the miners, CNN spending the whole day reporting about the Runaway bride, the unfaltering biased attitudes some stations develop. However I also thin that the muslim reaction is unjustified, yes it is against their religon to have holy figures depicted. But killing people, burning embassies? I don't think their is a just cause for that, even if what an earlier post said was true, that this comic was just the straw that broke the camel's back, I still don't think it was justified. However I have taken an even dimmer view on the french media, because a magazine reprinted the comics. They knew that these comics had incited so much trouble and they went ahead and reprinted them.

Seondly, there is no person in this world that wants war. Some people may want their belief to be triumphant, or their nation to become stronger. But no one wants war.

Thirdly, I am an agnostic maronite christian. I live in America and have plenty of muslim friends. I have jewish friends, and (*gasp* here is the hard part for some folks in this world) we all are able to get along fine, even when discussing religon and politics. What I feel is that if people were able to be more open minded, and see other people's point of view, this world we be a much better place.

No religion should have such a grip upon the minds of so many people.

It doesn't give them an excuse to advocate genocide. Whoever they are. Catholics feel the same about their religion. They didn't start advocating the mass-murder of Americans because Dan Brown wrote a book. And if they did, I'd have the same opinion of those Catholics as I do of the few Muslims who are advocating genocide over cartoons.

It was not the inclusion of alcohol, but rather the inherent misogyny against women, the "you-get-raped-its-your-own-damned-fault-you-stupid-whore-now-get-back-in-the-kitchen-where-you-belong" mentality. I can't help being a woman. So to me, its the same thing. And whilst I abhor serial rapists, I would not call for the genocide of an entire nation of people, because they happened to have a few serial rapists in them. I also wouldn't call for the death of the rapists.

Well, you're not as angry. These people are really fucking angry.

I mean, I got really pissed off at the whole christian kids beating the goth kids up because the Lord wanted them to or some shit... I wanted to personally get my gothic sunday best on and hop in a royal purple Dodge Neon and drive down to the Bible Belt and hack some skulls with my fancy replica longsword. There are many times where I am convinced that their religious doctrine makes them morally worse than my secular humanist non-doctrine because of the fact that I never badmouth anyone's way of life, unless it expressly harms another human being. But sometimes, and it happens to everyone, we just get pushed over a line of anger. Some of us go as far as to burn buildings. It happens anywhere for any reason. The cartoon is just international and well-publicized. We all have our breaking points, and I totally stopped paying attention to what I was writing.

If I became incoherent, disregard most of everything after that point.

Yeah, lemme try it all again.

Mare Serenus, you are spot on about the comic issue. Over-reaction to a lack of Journalistic Responsibility. Both sides are demerited.

That Runaway Bride thing was so ridiculous. Was there ANY significance at ALL to that? Fuck, someone went missing, fine, air it. But it turns out she ran away? Cut the sensationalist BS! That example alone makes me want to electroshock the collective whole of American "Journalism."

I point to Devon Avenue in Chicago, and I pose the question, "How can the rest of you people not get along?" For those of you who don't know Chicago's Devon Avenue (probably a great deal of you), it is a street on Chicago's North side that is loaded with Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, and Jews. It is crowded and loaded with traffic at ALL times of the day, stores and restaurants of all those different cultures next door to one another... The perfect example of "Can't we all just get along?"

No religion should have such a grip upon the minds of so many people.
[Imagine] no religion too.
Nothing to kill or die for.
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace.

[Imagine] no religion too.
Nothing to kill or die for.
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace.
Why do I picture you as a white blond-haired middle-aged man with shiney white teeth who would normally try and convert me to Christianity but today decided to convert me to atheism?

And there'd be no peace. Don't kid yourself.

It is not a war on Islam but a war on terroristic radicals. Islam is actually a religion of peace sure it had it's start with war but Catholisicm has had many wars. Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet of god but not a son. It was actually the Vatican that started the war with Islam and even after they lost they still tried. When we say "raghead" or "sand ******" it's beacuase that is what most of the terrorist dress like, not because they are islamic.

:) (good people) :mp5: (terrorist) :sniper: (american army)

Why do I picture you as a white blond-haired middle-aged man with shiney white teeth who would normally try and convert me to Christianity but today decided to convert me to atheism?

And there'd be no peace. Don't kid yourself.
perhaps it's because im tired...i dunno

you're right, there will never be peace, but hey; you imagine me as a white blond-haired middle-aged man with shiney white teeth, so why can't you imagine world peace? :D

No I don't want war. But I think Iran does.

Hold on Listen for a second.

The President of Iran is contantly pulling things that are solely designed to piss off the International Community. I have to think why? Is it stupidity?
No I think he wants to Goad the West into a war, using that war he will turn that into an excuse to Rally all Muslims (Even the moderate ones) to rise up and destroy the west, not to mention the rest of the middle east would side on him eventually, in the process, Israel would be destroyed, I have a feeling he doesn't care how many of his people die, as long as Israel is destroyed in the end. Not Stupid, but sick and insane? yes.

It is not a war on Islam but a war on terroristic radicals. Islam is actually a religion of peace sure it had it's start with war but Catholisicm has had many wars. Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet of god but not a son. It was actually the Vatican that started the war with Islam and even after they lost they still tried. When we say "raghead" or "sand ******" it's beacuase that is what most of the terrorist dress like, not because they are islamic.

:) (good people) :mp5: (terrorist) :sniper: (american army)
lol nice job being the most sterotypical noob with the two gun smilies in your first post, all you're missing is the :gundge:! props, and welcome to NS!

Thanks for the props but really if i didn't know better i'd say that Islam is probably the most believable religions because it's book was written by the actual person that was said to have heard "god" unlike in Christianity where the Bible was written almost half a century after the death of "Christ".

NO

If you turn that chart sideways it looks like a one fingered salute!!

http://www.rencentral.com/jul_aug_vol1/onefinger.jpg

No I don't want war. But I think Iran does.

Hold on Listen for a second.

The President of Iran is contantly pulling things that are solely designed to piss off the International Community. I have to think why? Is it stupidity?
No I think he wants to Goad the West into a war, using that war he will turn that into an excuse to Rally all Muslims (Even the moderate ones) to rise up and destroy the west, not to mention the rest of the middle east would side on him eventually, in the process, Israel would be destroyed, I have a feeling he doesn't care how many of his people die, as long as Israel is destroyed in the end. Not Stupid, but sick and insane? yes.

Makes sense.

Interesting way to look at it thats for sure.

But then on the other side mankind's nature is that of a destructive one. If we are not killing eachother we are doing something to change the world around us. Mankind is the only animal to change it's surroundings the rest of the world adapts to its environments. But with out war there is no longer any use for soldiers such as myself if i'm not at war or preparing for it the only other thing i really do is play video games or go out with my girlfriend.

as the brilliant mathimatician Albert Einstien once said, "as long as ther is human beings, there will always be war."

as the brilliant mathimatician Albert Einstien once said, "as long as ther is human beings, there will always be war."
or, "i know not with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but I know WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones"

or, "i know not with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but I know WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones"

I heard a similar version. "If WWIII is fought with nuclear weapons, then WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones."

I'm starting to think it's not going to remain a War on Terror, but become a War on Islam.

At first, on 9/11, people were talking about nuking the middle east, even normal, non-racist people were talking about them "sand niggers" and bombing the "towelheads."

Then they toned down some. It became about the terrorists. The extremists.

Nowadays people talk about "Islamicists." But the line between them and Muslims seems to be drawn increasingly thinner by many people, in general. Some of them even just on this board, I'm sure, will be happy to express their opinions about what a violent, barbaric religion Islam is (and why Muslims should all be deported).

And of course, this plays into the extremists' hands. They want Jihad, they want the West to destroy itself making war on all Islam.

So my question is, is that what you want? Just have a nice big all-out war between whites/Westerners/democracists/Americans and Muslims/a-rabs/Islamicists/terrorists?

I don't, but I'm realizing that, when it comes to a battle of public opinion between Fear and Reason... Fear wins every time.
I'm disappointed in you. This is unworthy of many of the other posts you have made, most of which gave at least a nod in the direction of logic.

I don't want a war against Islam, or a war against anyone, for that matter. What I personally want is for everyone in the world to learn to settle differences in a calm, logical manner through diplomatic channels. 9/11 proved that there are a number of high-visibility Muslims who totally reject this approach. The continuing idiocy of many in the Muslim world ( what does the word "cartoons" bring to mind? ) only serves to add fuel to this particular fire.

What it boils down to is: if you attack the US, you will get your ass kicked. And yes, it's just that simple.

And while I'm at it, why raise such hell about Christianity in other posts when it's fairlly obvious from where I sit that the real threat is militant Islamism?

But then on the other side mankind's nature is that of a destructive one. If we are not killing eachother we are doing something to change the world around us. Mankind is the only animal to change it's surroundings the rest of the world adapts to its environments. But with out war there is no longer any use for soldiers such as myself if i'm not at war or preparing for it the only other thing i really do is play video games or go out with my girlfriend.

My idol, George Bernard Shaw:
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

I'm even reminded of (Speaking of video games) Metal Gear Solid. I don't remember who, but someone said that the world always needs soldiers. That without war, the warriors lose purpose.

The concept that many humans have that they are exempt from nature, and above the animal, is mankind's greatest delusion.

What it boils down to is: if you attack the US, you will get your ass kicked. And yes, it's just that simple.
What you mean to say is, if a person loosely affiliated with you attacks the US, we will kick you ass.

Or maybe you meant to say that if we don’t like you, you get your ass kicked.

And while I'm at it, why raise such hell about Christianity in other posts when it's fairlly obvious from where I sit that the real threat is militant Islamism?

Because I'm not sitting where you are.

I'm disappointed in you. This is unworthy of many of the other posts you have made, most of which gave at least a nod in the direction of logic.

Au contraire. This is just as logical. You see, I've noticed that some people DO want war with all Islam. For example, 1) the "Islamicists" and 2) the people who voted "yes" on this poll. Observation and inquiry is all this is. Two things that logically should be done now and then, no?

And while I'm at it, why raise such hell about Christianity in other posts when it's fairlly obvious from where I sit that the real threat is militant Islamism?

What are you talking about?

And I don't think the real threat is militant Islamism. I think that problem is highly overrated by the media because of publicity and convinience.

it is incorrect to label a regilion as militant so therefore they are called Terrorist sure a person can act on there own or even in a group it is just that they apply the ideals of something that they shouldn't to their cause as a justification. These terrorist will be taken care of but we need time we can't not crunch numbers in a war. The last time we did that was Vietnam and in Korea many simply just pretend it din't happen or just forgot. There needs to be support from both politics and the people for this war. Sure there are bad people fighting for the wrong reasons on the good side but it is just the same with the Terrorist there are some good people fighting under misunderstood presumptions. It take the collective of the one to create the all.

Au contraire. This is just as logical. You see, I've noticed that some people DO want war with all Islam. For example, 1) the "Islamicists" and 2) the people who voted "yes" on this poll. Observation and inquiry is all this is. Two things that logically should be done now and then, no?

And I don't think the real threat is militant Islamism. I think that problem is highly overrated by the media because of publicity and convinience.
Anyone who seeks war without adequate justification is simply wrong, IMHO.

There are several thousand familiy members of 9/11 victims ( as well as lots of others ) who would take serious issue with the idea of militant Islamism being "highly overrated by the media."

Because I'm not sitting where you are.
I don't know you, but from the tone of that response I would tend to be very thankful that you aren't.

Anyone who seeks war without adequate justification is simply wrong, IMHO.


Well, now I agree.


There are several thousand familiy members of 9/11 victims ( as well as lots of others ) who would take serious issue with the idea of militant Islamism being "highly overrated by the media."

Then they can make their arguments on this thread.

Victims are not the most unbiased and rational people. Of COURSE some of them would disagree. But I think some of them would not. Not everyone who has a family member involved in a terrorist related death feels that having Islam in the news press every day thereafter is some kind of good or bad thing. It's just the news press, choosing what sells as always. Right now, tragedy and Islamic anger sells.

It's also interesting to note how the media never gave a shit about NY Firefighters until 9/11. And doesn't give a shit about them now. You really think they don't blow things up, ignore other things, pick and choose based purely off what's going to get the most attention, sell the most papers?

I don't know you, but from the tone of that response I would tend to be very thankful that you aren't.

I have seen in my lifetime, and taken issue with, more troubles with Christianity than Islam. I feel much more threatened by Christianity than I do Islam, and to even suggest that I'm feeling threatened by either of them to a level of discomfort is stretching it. Religion matters too little to me.

I also refuse to see 9/11 as hallowed in any way. I felt that way early in 2003, when it became a tool, and I still feel that way. I know plenty of 9/11 victim families who are currently more upset at the American government for fighting wars in their dead loved ones' names than they currently are that their loved ones are even dead. Don't go playing the 9/11 card anymore. It's time to close that book.

Today's war is just a strategical thing. Religion is not the real reason why Americans and their allies fight against the Djihadis and 'evil' countries amd every
intelligent people know it...

it is incorrect to label a regilion as militant so therefore they are called Terrorist sure a person can act on there own or even in a group it is just that they apply the ideals of something that they shouldn't to their cause as a justification. These terrorist will be taken care of but we need time we can't not crunch numbers in a war. The last time we did that was Vietnam and in Korea many simply just pretend it din't happen or just forgot. There needs to be support from both politics and the people for this war. Sure there are bad people fighting for the wrong reasons on the good side but it is just the same with the Terrorist there are some good people fighting under misunderstood presumptions. It take the collective of the one to create the all

it is incorrect to label a regilion as militant so therefore they are called Terrorist sure a person can act on there own or even in a group it is just that they apply the ideals of something that they shouldn't to their cause as a justification. These terrorist will be taken care of but we need time we can't not crunch numbers in a war. The last time we did that was Vietnam and in Korea many simply just pretend it din't happen or just forgot. There needs to be support from both politics and the people for this war. Sure there are bad people fighting for the wrong reasons on the good side but it is just the same with the Terrorist there are some good people fighting under misunderstood presumptions. It take the collective of the one to create the all

If anyone had anything to say about this, they would have said so the first time you posted it. If you must, refer people back to your post, don't just repost it.

I am to bed. Felt good to debate, everyone. Guten nacht.

Most of the people going ballistic and burning stuff down were looking for an excuse anyway or were pushed in that direction by the local government.

The problem just gets bigger when Western Media in general highlights these Gonna Burn Shit Anyways fruitcakes and says to the effect "Hey everyone, this is what your Average Muslim is like!" Then it just sets the stage for the "Brown Skin = Terrorist" or "Islam is Evil" Diseases.

mine f uped and i couldn't see it on my comp so i did it again but yeah

1. I have seen in my lifetime, and taken issue with, more troubles with Christianity than Islam. I feel much more threatened by Christianity than I do Islam, and to even suggest that I'm feeling threatened by either of them to a level of discomfort is stretching it. Religion matters too little to me.

2. I also refuse to see 9/11 as hallowed in any way. I felt that way early in 2003, when it became a tool, and I still feel that way. I know plenty of 9/11 victim families who are currently more upset at the American government for fighting wars in their dead loved ones' names than they currently are that their loved ones are even dead. Don't go playing the 9/11 card anymore. It's time to close that book.
1. What brought that on? Are you assuming I'm a Christian?

2. Bullshit. 9/11 isn't a "card," nor should it be used as a political football, but it's definitely NOT something I want to ever forget. Ever.

The problem just gets bigger when Western Media in general highlights these Gonna Burn Shit Anyways fruitcakes and says to the effect "Hey everyone, this is what your Average Muslim is like!" Then it just sets the stage for the "Brown Skin = Terrorist" or "Islam is Evil" Diseases.
Gauthier, have you been drinking again? Tsk!

The media now a days are some of the biggest fucktards on the planet just looking for better rattings why didn't they show tons of footage on the Riots in France? because they found out that terrorist are much better at spreading fear than people half way across the globe in a different country. i believe the media are very much like terrorist spreading fear every way possible. If you watch the national news all most the entire broadcast is about something negative and someone bitching about it!

1. What brought that on? Are you assuming I'm a Christian?

2. Bullshit. 9/11 isn't a "card," nor should it be used as a political football, but it's definitely NOT something I want to ever forget. Ever.

1. No. You had asked in another post what the bit about Christianity was for. I had been using it as an example in an earlier tangential debate on this thread. When you said the threat was Militant Islam, I presented that other point. No assumptions about your own religion were made. We're golden there.

2. Agreed on the political football. I present many of the references being made to it in regards to many of the world events lately. I certainly won't forget it either. But the way it has been abused has turned it from what should have been a tragedy to be given a plaque has become a tool used to justify many an action or theory that would otherwise have no legitimate justification, and the use of said tragedy is a stretch in itself. Political self-aggrandizement is the order of the day when 9/11 is used.

Edit: Ok, seriously now, I'm going to sleep. If you reply, I won't be able to read it or comment on it until tomorrow, sorry.

The media now a days are some of the biggest fucktards on the planet just looking for better rattings why didn't they show tons of footage on the Riots in France? because they found out that terrorist are much better at spreading fear than people half way across the globe in a different country. i believe the media are very much like terrorist spreading fear every way possible. If you watch the national news all most the entire broadcast is about something negative and someone bitching about it!

Yup, it's a bastardous, parasitic profession. and I'm studying it.

Gauthier, have you been drinking again? Tsk!

Do you have an actual point of rebuttal to my observation or are you just wanking to your own perceived self-righteousness as usual Forrest?

No.

If only we could ask the whole population this, then those who voted yes are put on some kind of battle royale type island with the radical Muslims who fit the media stereotype. Last man standing. Granted most of the racist ass holes depend on their precious guns for courage, and probably wouldn't do very well without them, but it would be highly entertaining and the world be a lot more peaceful, humane and likely more intelligent place.

I'm disappointed in you. This is unworthy of many of the other posts you have made, most of which gave at least a nod in the direction of logic.

I don't want a war against Islam, or a war against anyone, for that matter. What I personally want is for everyone in the world to learn to settle differences in a calm, logical manner through diplomatic channels. 9/11 proved that there are a number of high-visibility Muslims who totally reject this approach. The continuing idiocy of many in the Muslim world ( what does the word "cartoons" bring to mind? ) only serves to add fuel to this particular fire.

What it boils down to is: if you attack the US, you will get your ass kicked. And yes, it's just that simple.
Well Iraq didn't attack the US but the US kicked their ass anyways, and in reference to 9/11, the vast majority of "high-visibility Muslims " who took part were from Saudi Arabia, yet there was no ass kicking there.

As far as diplomacy is concerned, you have supported the Iraq war and anyone who opposes it is somehow "anti-American". After witnessing some of your rants in here I truly wonder if you really know what diplomacy is?

Somehow, I just don't see you as a peace lover or crusader. However, that is only my humble opinion and I am sticking to it.

I want Melkor to smite the middle east with Grond.

Good reference. Who should play the part of Fingolfin? Zarqawi?

I think we started waging war on Islam when we put Israel where it is and started screwing with their land and politics because they have oil.
Neither of these things are to do with Islam.

Israel yes, Iran is fine as long as they sit in their corner reading the Qu'ran and not make nukes.
Just because the people of Israel are immigrants?

*sigh* I'd take Islam more seriously if it didn't take itself TOO seriously all the time. This violent rioting doesn't help their image, and some people are going to take the actions of a few as the actions of many. I hope that doesn't happen, but you know people...
Definitely. We just need to remember that most Muslims view these types in the same way most Christians view Falwell and Phelps. They're extremist bigots, not representatives of the majority.

Does the image of Michael Jackson dangling his baby from a balcony make you want to slap him?

Do you have no personal cause?

Have you never been riled up by an image?

If you say no, I'll call you a liar.
In fairness, the image of Jackson dangling his baby was a photo of a real event and not a cartoon. And it still wasn't worth rioting over.

The same percentage of Muslims who use terror and suicide bombings and violence is the same percentage of humans who rape little girls.

Should we wipe out the human race now?

Looks like a straw man. Funky Evil is not at all suggesting Hitler-eque policies of wiping out all Muslims.

I am curious as to the reaction I would get in the U.S. if I were to publish cartoons lampooning the events of 9/11.

I could title the series "911 is a Joke".

It would be worth a shot. I wonder how many death threats I'd get.

Yes. Try suicide bombing an armoured column, or burning a flag when the street is destroyed...:)

Yes. Try suicide bombing an armoured column, or burning a flag when the street is destroyed...:)

You do realise that happy smilies don't detract from the fact that you are a revolting bigot don't you?

You do realise that happy smilies don't detract from the fact that you are a revolting bigot don't you?

I would rather say they compound them...

I wonder how many death threats I'd get.

see? death threats.

as opposed to angry mobs with torches who are about to actually bring death to people.

I would rather say they compound them...

You acknowledge what you are and even seem to be proud of it? I pity you.

Am I for war? Not really. Am I for having the Muslim religion evolve out of the Crusade era, very much so.


Also, if Muslims do not want people thinking that they are terrorists, then a good place to start would be less killing and/or death threats.

You acknowledge what you are and even seem to be proud of it? I pity you.

Oh, my word, you truly are gracious. Where do you live incidentally, it is not suburbia is it?

I am curious as to the reaction I would get in the U.S. if I were to publish cartoons lampooning the events of 9/11.

I could title the series "911 is a Joke".

It would be worth a shot. I wonder how many death threats I'd get.
You'd be labeled as an anti-American Communist who deserves to die, if you're not labelled that already for merely disagreeing with bush, in which case you'd not only be deserving of death, but a slow and painful death lasting fifty years. They would then proceed to throw your body in a ditch somewhere, then wrap themselves up in the flag and hang upside down from under their front porches.

Am I for war? Not really. Am I for having the Muslim religion evolve out of the Crusade era, very much so.

Also, if Muslims do not want people thinking that they are terrorists, then a good place to start would be less killing and/or death threats.

Well put.

Those few radical protesters that hit the street, burned flags and burned embassies only confirmed what the cartoons depicted.

It like that you're diagnosed to be in denail and you confirm that by answering it with 'No, that's not true.'


Some people :rolleyes: .

And how would you react if you were living in poverty so deep that you had no A/C, no education, and no running water?
Of course you didn't. You could express your indignation from the comfort of your own home on high speed internet from a state of the art computer with ice in your scotch and cable television.
Those 0,01% of muslims who hold the power are the ones who want the jihad, and the ones the war is against. They have so much money I can't even dream of but don't care enough to build an aqueduct and some desalinization plants, instead they spend it for propaganda and enforcement of inhumane laws, and to buy pieces of the western world.
They don't want anyhing to interfere with their regimes: heavy censorship on information, or how else could they avoid insurrections? So you guess why they have no education in the first place.
What strikes me as insane are the islamists living in civilized countries thinking that peace and isolationism will help the conditions of those oppressed.
They crave a war, but think that the west is their enemy and side with their oppressors.
Aren't you ashamed of not moving a finger to change that? If the answer is yes, then this conversation is over. Hope you understand why I think this war is acceptable. (edit: spelling)

see? death threats.

as opposed to angry mobs with torches who are about to actually bring death to people.

But as far as I can tell, still nothing more then death threats so far - at least as far as the cartoon-controvercy is concerned (and material damage, but no killing). The only casualties so far have been among some of the protesters.

Oh, my word, you truly are gracious. Where do you live incidentally, it is not suburbia is it?

I'm certainly more gracious than somebody who wants to deport every Muslim in the west and then launch nuclear weapons at the Middle East.

You can't resist the urge to profle people can you? If you can't do it by religion you'll do it by location. I live near Cambridge, make of that what you will.

the framing of the question makes answering the poll stupid.

I am curious as to the reaction I would get in the U.S. if I were to publish cartoons lampooning the events of 9/11.

I could title the series "911 is a Joke".

It would be worth a shot. I wonder how many death threats I'd get.
Newsflash; America, contrary to its self-image, is not the land of the free.

Actually,,,

I'd like a war against all major relations but it be a war of words not a war of guns.

Actually,,,

I'd like a war against all major relations but it be a war of words not a war of guns.

Yes, the parents will be the first to go, then the siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents. The war on relations will be a glorious one...

Actually,,,
I'd like a war against all major relations but it be a war of words not a war of guns.
That's very noble, but you've seen how muslims react to words huh?

I'm starting to think it's not going to remain a War on Terror, but become a War on Islam.

At first, on 9/11, people were talking about nuking the middle east, even normal, non-racist people were talking about them "sand niggers" and bombing the "towelheads."

Then they toned down some. It became about the terrorists. The extremists.

Nowadays people talk about "Islamicists." But the line between them and Muslims seems to be drawn increasingly thinner by many people, in general. Some of them even just on this board, I'm sure, will be happy to express their opinions about what a violent, barbaric religion Islam is (and why Muslims should all be deported).

And of course, this plays into the extremists' hands. They want Jihad, they want the West to destroy itself making war on all Islam.

So my question is, is that what you want? Just have a nice big all-out war between whites/Westerners/democracists/Americans and Muslims/a-rabs/Islamicists/terrorists?

I don't, but I'm realizing that, when it comes to a battle of public opinion between Fear and Reason... Fear wins every time.


My thoughts on this, taken from a thread I posted in earlier today. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468388)

On foreign policy, it could be said that I have drifted right-wards. I don't buy into the "kill all the browns" bullshit anymore then I do "kill all the blacks, reds, yellows, whites, or the motherfucking off shades of beige." I expect our government to do exactly what it's supposed to do, see to it that our enemies are killed in times of war by whatever means necessary. I feel that we desperately need to shut the hell up and look at things without the ideological blinders. Every time I see a racist asshole talk about Arabs and the obligatory apologist telling him the same "not all Muslims are terrorists" line or "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" I grimace a little. People at large need to stop pissing over the semantics and realize that not all Muslims are terrorists, not all terrorists are Muslims, but SOME ARE. I'm not saying that they are inferior, I'm not saying that they are evil because they are a different race or religion then me, I'm not saying that they are animals. I just want society at large to realize that these people have sold themselves to the darkest and most brutal demons of our nature. These are people who see ignorance, oppression, and brutality not only as a way of life, but as a moral responsibility that must be inflicted on others. I understand perfectly that they are a pitifully small minority and I'm pretty damn sure they understand that as well. Unfortunately, this only makes them all the more dangerous because it forces them into acts of subversion, social manipulation and overt planned acts intended to instill paranoia and terror. We need to identify these people in certain terms, we need to find them, we need to eliminate them with extreme prejudice, and we need to leave those that desire to live in peace and prosperity to do so unmolested.

I will only want a war on Islam if Islam declares war on us. Otherwise, I'll only support war against the extremists who use the religion as justification to attack us...there isn't a widespread Islamic attack going on, so apparently Islam hasn't declared war on us.

It's not a question, at this point, of whether I want a war against Islam. Islam, at least extremist Islam has already brought the war to us. Whether it's wanted or not, it's here.

It's not a question, at this point, of whether I want a war against Islam. Islam, at least extremist Islam has already brought the war to us. Whether it's wanted or not, it's here.
they brought the war to us? no, no, no. this war started long before any terrorist attack. It started when we brought Israel to them.

they brought the war to us? no, no, no. this war started long before any terrorist attack. It started when we brought Israel to them.

Yes, because worthless real estate is such an affront to their honour that they must continue the petty feud into this day and age.

Yes, because worthless real estate is such an affront to their honour that they must continue the petty feud into this day and age.
worthless?

Yes, because worthless real estate is such an affront to their honour that they must continue the petty feud into this day and age.


Don't know about you, but I'm attached to my abode, humble though it might be. And as they are still under occupation, I think it was somebody else who kept the "feud" going.

Yes. Try suicide bombing an armoured column, or burning a flag when the street is destroyed...:)

You could try suiciding yourself along with all the other emo fags of your worthless generation of pretentious filth. :)

What do you think of that? Admit it... you've always thought that bottle of sleeping pills your mom uses looks awfully comforting on the dark nights when you have nothing better to do than look like a big bad bigot on an anonymous forum for no other reason than to bring attention to your miserable little life.

Edit: :)

worthless?

Yeah, there was a good bit of it that was inarable, there's not exactly OIL, and Jerusalem wasn't even in the possession of the Israelis until AFTER the arabs attacked them.

Yeah, there was a good bit of it that was inarable, there's not exactly OIL, and Jerusalem wasn't even in the possession of the Israelis until AFTER the arabs attacked them.
Then why is the U.S. solidly standing by Israel's side at all costs? There must be something good there.

Then why is the U.S. solidly standing by Israel's side at all costs? There must be something good there.

Campaign funds? ;)

That's very noble, but you've seen how muslims react to words huh?

Muslims in poorly educated communities. If we where as poorly educated as they are we might have acted the same way.

Then why is the U.S. solidly standing by Israel's side at all costs? There must be something good there.

It's a secure coastal base in the middle of what is considered hostile territory.

It's a secure coastal base in the middle of what is considered hostile territory.
and what made that territory hostile? perhaps the fact we put Israel right there?

and what made that territory hostile? perhaps the fact we put Israel right there?

I don't think it was that as much as it was the next 60 years' events. Both the US (and USSR, although they were more active in Africa) had a habit of getting rid of local leaders (you know, the ones the people wanted) and replacing them with friendly dictators who kept the oil flowing...that pissed them off more than Israel ever could.

I don't think it was that as much as it was the next 60 years' events. Both the US (and USSR, although they were more active in Africa) had a habit of getting rid of local leaders (you know, the ones the people wanted) and replacing them with friendly dictators who kept the oil flowing...that pissed them off more than Israel ever could.
Which is exactly part of the reason why we put Israel there (the other is because of the Zionist Jews high up in our own government, but im not gonna get into that) so my point stands, what would we be doing there in the first place if they didn't have oil?

You could try suiciding yourself along with all the other emo fags of your worthless generation of pretentious filth. :)

What do you think of that? Admit it... you've always thought that bottle of sleeping pills your mom uses looks awfully comforting on the dark nights when you have nothing better to do than look like a big bad bigot on an anonymous forum for no other reason than to bring attention to your miserable little life.

Edit: :)

D'you know, thats the best I've heard so far

and what made that territory hostile? perhaps the fact we put Israel right there?

You're forgetting the long memory factor. The West never exactly did Islam any favours, especially didn't give self government to them very well. And of course they haven't exactly cared to build up their own people. And so it's all around a mess and everyone's contributed to the problem so why bother trying to sort it out now when you know noone really wants to get to the root of the problem.

So just start WWIII and hope we kill 'em all and let God sort out the nuclear winter wasteland that the Earth becomes. And hopefully we'll avoid having any mutants by having everyone simply go kaput.

Which is exactly part of the reason why we put Israel there (the other is because of the Zionist Jews high up in our own government, but im not gonna get into that) so my point stands, what would we be doing there in the first place if they didn't have oil?

You say that like wanting Armageddon to happen is a bad thing...

You're forgetting the long memory factor. The West never exactly did Islam any favours, especially didn't give self government to them very well. And of course they haven't exactly cared to build up their own people. And so it's all around a mess and everyone's contributed to the problem so why bother trying to sort it out now when you know noone really wants to get to the root of the problem.
Exactly...so why are we in Iraq trying to make a "free and democratic Middle East?"
So just start WWIII and hope we kill 'em all and let God sort out the nuclear winter wasteland that the Earth becomes. And hopefully we'll avoid having any mutants by having everyone simply go kaput.
YAY!!!!! that sounds fun!!

You say that like wanting Armageddon to happen is a bad thing...
naw, look at my above post!

I don't really want a war but, I want to go around yelling Crusade! and Kill the infedles! and fun stuff like that. They've been enjoying t for the past half century. Except the yell Jihad! which is a cool word. JIHAD! I mean CRUSADE!

"War on Islam?" I say that you can't declare war on a religion, just as you can't declare war on a tactic (ala the "War on Terrorism"), since both are abstract ideas rather than material objects. You can declare war on the practitioners of said religion or said tactic, but you can't declare war on the religion or tactic itself.

Therefore, my vote has to go for Melkor. In fact, it would go for Melkor even if evil Valar weren't cool. :cool:

-----

As to the question of "Do you want a war on the practitioners of Islam", I will reply with a question of my own: "What are the alternatives?"

If I have to choose between a global war on the Muslims and being ruled over by a totalitarian theocracy headed by fundamentalists (be they Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or from some other religion), then I will gladly accept a nuclear war with the Muslims. Even if the war fails to prevent the rise of said totalitarian theocracy, I'll still have a chance of getting killed off first.
If I have to choose between a global war on the Muslims and at least somewhat peaceful coexistence with Muslims in which the Western world maintains personal freedoms, then I will gladly accept peaceful coexistence.

As to the question of "Do you want a war on the practitioners of Islam", I will reply with a question of my own: "What are the alternatives?"

If I have to choose between a global war on the Muslims and being ruled over by a totalitarian theocracy headed by fundamentalists (be they Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or from some other religion), then I will gladly accept a nuclear war with the Muslims.

The problem here is, being ruled over by a totalitarian theocracy of fundamentalist Christians OR Jews will MEAN nuclear war with the Muslims. That's not a pair of alternatives you've given, those two things go hand in hand. Religious fundamentalism + totalitarianism = bloody war.



So, of those who want war with the Muslims, I ask you: would you be the ones fighting and dying? Do you serve in the military? Does any of your family?

Or are you like so many other armchair generals, so happy to advocate wars but just so long as it doesn't disturb your cozy life in front of the TV eating Fritos and masturbating (the cheesy grit makes it feel extra thrilling, eh)?

The problem here is, being ruled over by a totalitarian theocracy of fundamentalist Christians OR Jews will MEAN nuclear war with the Muslims. That's not a pair of alternatives you've given, those two things go hand in hand. Religious fundamentalism + totalitarianism = bloody war.



So, of those who want war with the Muslims, I ask you: would you be the ones fighting and dying? Do you serve in the military? Does any of your family?

Or are you like so many other armchair generals, so happy to advocate wars but just so long as it doesn't disturb your cozy life in front of the TV eating Fritos and masturbating (the cheesy grit makes it feel extra thrilling, eh)?

Yes, I was in the military, and I've killed Muslims before. Killing them is more satisfying than masturbation, IMHO. I have plenty of relatives currently over in Iraq and Afghanistan, and more than a few friends there as well. They all want to be over there.

You see, Islam requires religious imperialism. "Us" vs. "Them" in their minds. It's inescapable.

So whether you may want a war or not, the majority of the world's Muslims see their religion as under attack by Western values (or lack thereof). So they don't all want to kill us, but plenty do. And most of the rest will tacitly approve, or actually support it by donating money or hiding people in their villages.

Yes, I was in the military, and I've killed Muslims before. Killing them is more satisfying than masturbation, IMHO

Wow.

And I thought people like you were a fucking stereotype

You see, Islam requires religious imperialism. "Us" vs. "Them" in their minds. It's inescapable.

Right. So if THEY think it, YOU must think it too. Makes sense, from the standpoint of total childlike idiocy.


So whether you may want a war or not, the majority of the world's Muslims see their religion as under attack by Western values (or lack thereof).

I'm starting to see their point.

So they don't all want to kill us, but plenty do. And most of the rest will tacitly approve, or actually support it by donating money or hiding people in their villages.

Hmm, I think I approve too. I'll masturbate everytime a US soldier gets shot in the line of his duty. What do you think of that?

It's about time someone realized this is the never ended conflict of Muslims wanting to kill every last Christian, Jew, or Westerner on God's Green Earth.:mp5:
At the end of this conflict, the Terrorists will be dead, or we will be dead. But I'm going to do all in my power to see that I'm not dead.:sniper:

Hmm, I think I approve too. I'll masturbate everytime a US soldier gets shot in the line of his duty. What do you think of that?

That's ok - better make like a windmill and catch up.

As for me, I don't masturbate - I prefer the real thing.

And remember this - every time a US soldier is killed or wounded, 28 Iraqi insurgents actually die. No insurgency has ever suffered a casualty rate so high - the VietCong lost 8 insurgents for every US soldier killed (not wounded).

Other than roadside bombs and kidnapping female journalists and killing old women who were humanitarian leaders, the insurgency is out of cards.

I didn't ask them to invade Kuwait back when I was in the service. And I don't recall doing anything that justified having them fly planes into US buildings.

I'm rather glad that the plan for Iran involves the use of submarine launched ballistic missiles and nuclear warheads - instead of stupidly occupying the country.

If they want a fight - if they want a confrontation - they'll certainly get one. But we, and not they, will survive it. In fact, it's likely that none of them will survive.

That's ok - better make like a windmill and catch up.

As for me, I don't masturbate - I prefer the real thing.

I prefer the real thing - assuming you mean sex, and not rape or shooting people - but I also masturbate. I'm versatile!

And remember this - every time a US soldier is killed or wounded, 28 Iraqi insurgents actually die. No insurgency has ever suffered a casualty rate so high - the VietCong lost 8 insurgents for every US soldier killed (not wounded).

That's nice, but if you're talking about a war on Islam, this pissant insurgency is just a battle and not at all the war. A war can be won even without winning a single battle. Especially a war between a religion and the enforcing arm of a temporary democratic administration.

The problem here is, being ruled over by a totalitarian theocracy of fundamentalist Christians OR Jews will MEAN nuclear war with the Muslims. That's not a pair of alternatives you've given, those two things go hand in hand. Religious fundamentalism + totalitarianism = bloody war.
So, of those who want war with the Muslims, I ask you: would you be the ones fighting and dying? Do you serve in the military? Does any of your family?

I hope it won't end with nukes, and no I'm not a soldier, but I respect those soldiers very much for what they do, do you?
You see, Islam requires religious imperialism. "Us" vs. "Them" in their minds. It's inescapable.
Right. So if THEY think it, YOU must think it too. Makes sense, from the standpoint of total childlike idiocy.
In a thread somewhere I've asked an islamist "what do you think about people trying to teach you that jihad is bad by waging war to you?" and got no reply. My answer would have been that they are desperate, they've tried everything else and failed, now that's the last resort.
So if THEY think it (that imperialism Us vs. Them is necessary) would you still support debate? Until when? Would you rather die an innocent than fight?

I didn't ask them to invade Kuwait back when I was in the service. And I don't recall doing anything that justified having them fly planes into US buildings.
.

So you thus link a secular state with a dictator once approved by the US with a bunch of Jihadis whose head was once trained and approved of by the US. Theres is a link there as we can see, but not the one you'd like to imply.

So you thus link a secular state with a dictator once approved by the US with a bunch of Jihadis whose head was once trained and approved of by the US. Theres is a link there as we can see, but not the one you'd like to imply.

There is a link, but not the one you think I would put up.

Both are the product of an uncivilized culture, and they have a terminal inability to live by the standards of the West - not saying that the West is perfect, but it's far better than the strongman governments produced by Arab countries, and supremely better than a group of madmen who want to re-establish the Caliphate.

We're still suffering from the illusion that we can civilize them. That's the problem.

They don't want to be civilized. Not only that, they want to tear down and destroy our way of life, taking advantage of us along the way.

There is a link, but not the one you think I would put up.

Both are the product of an uncivilized culture, and they have a terminal inability to live by the standards of the West - not saying that the West is perfect, but it's far better than the strongman governments produced by Arab countries, and supremely better than a group of madmen who want to re-establish the Caliphate.

We're still suffering from the illusion that we can civilize them. That's the problem.

They don't want to be civilized. Not only that, they want to tear down and destroy our way of life, taking advantage of us along the way.

Iran under the Shah and Iraq were both supported by the United States at one time. I'd say "And you wonder why..." except you don't.

Your attitude was shared by Britain, Spain and United States, who carried that Superiority Complex and White Man's Burden into an almost successful effort to completely exterminate the various native people of North, Central and South America as well as the colonization of Africa.

But hey, I'm just talking to a genodical freak who gets off on killing Muslims. Why not be honest and just kill everyone you think is Muslim, man woman and child? After all, they're all terrorists according to you and you'd just be defending your country from the Evil Caliphate™.

And if the Religious Right gets their wish from Shrub to open up a Muslim Concentration Camp in the U.S. you'd have a promising career there you'd really enjoy.

:rolleyes:

Iran under the Shah and Iraq were both supported by the United States at one time. I'd say "And you wonder why..." except you don't.

Your attitude was shared by Britain, Spain and United States, who carried that Superiority Complex and White Man's Burden into an almost successful effort to completely exterminate the various native people of North, Central and South America as well as the colonization of Africa.

But hey, I'm just talking to a genodical freak who gets off on killing Muslims. Why not be honest and just kill everyone you think is Muslim, man woman and child? After all, they're all terrorists according to you and you'd just be defending your country from the Evil Caliphate™.

And if the Religious Right gets their wish from Shrub to open up a Muslim Concentration Camp in the U.S. you'd have a promising career there you'd really enjoy.

:rolleyes:

I don't have to like the way the world is turning out to tell you what's going to happen.

I think you confuse my prediction about what will happen next with what I like.

Case in point - it looks like the official end game of the US is to fire submarine launched ballistic missiles at Iran - just as I predicted.

Doesn't mean I like it - just means I'm right.

Hold on to your seat, Gauthier. If Europe doesn't take all the Jews back to Europe in the next two years, Iran is going to waste Israel with nuclear weapons.

Then all hell will break loose. I'm not saying I like it, Gauthier - but you are powerless to stop it.

The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

I don't have to like the way the world is turning out to tell you what's going to happen.

I think you confuse my prediction about what will happen next with what I like.

Case in point - it looks like the official end game of the US is to fire submarine launched ballistic missiles at Iran - just as I predicted.

Doesn't mean I like it - just means I'm right.

Hold on to your seat, Gauthier. If Europe doesn't take all the Jews back to Europe in the next two years, Iran is going to waste Israel with nuclear weapons.

Then all hell will break loose. I'm not saying I like it, Gauthier - but you are powerless to stop it.

The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

Ok, enough panic mongering. It'll take Iran about ten years to develop nuclear weapons without sanctions.

No. No one in there right mind WANTS war its just sometimes war is Needed.

In the days of old, lots of people wanted war. War was a great way to get rid of debtors, freaks, deviates, and masses of poor who otherwise did not add anything to the fiefdom. They collected all their "undesireables" and the other nation/dutchy/feudal lord did the same thing, and each leader of each army told their army of all the horrible things the other army was saying about their mothers. Then they gave them sharp sticks and ran them at one another. For good measure, they kept a bunch of archers back on both sides, and rained arrows down to do it up right.

Ok, enough panic mongering. It'll take Iran about ten years to develop nuclear weapons without sanctions.

No, no, its going to be two years, just as Iraq was WMD capable in 45 minutes:rolleyes:

Both are the product of an uncivilized culture, and they have a terminal inability to live by the standards of the West - not saying that the West is perfect, but it's far better than the strongman governments produced by Arab countries, and supremely better than a group of madmen who want to re-establish the Caliphate.
.

O thats a good one. Barely out of middle ages they become a subject of the Turks, and then their "noble" Western successors, from whom they observed how modern methods can be used to brutalise a population, while mouthing platitudes at the same time. And after the second world war, and the end of the age of out-right empires, who was busy undermining their attempt to fully exploit their own resources, or make sure their national interests were subjugated to anothers? From Saddam to the shah, if they're "uncivillised" its because of what the West had done and is doing.

And remember the West is only better for those who live in it. Start going south of the US of A to Latin America and theres hundreds of thousands of graves of those who had the "light of the freeworld" turn its attention towards them, while the "humanitarian" Western nations did little to stop it.

And remember the West is only better for those who live in it. Start going south of the US of A to Latin America and theres hundreds of thousands of graves of those who had the "light of the freeworld" turn its attention towards them, while the "humanitarian" Western nations did little to stop it.

That's why it should be our goal to spread sustainable economic growth, civil rights, and democracy to these regions. Otherwise, we'll never defeat terrorism and the Middle East will remain trapped in a cycle of oppression, ignorance, and poverty under the regional tyrants. Of course, it was the West that put most of them in to power, but that doesn't mean we can't right what we did wrong in the past.

That's why it should be our goal to spread sustainable economic growth, civil rights, and democracy to these regions. Otherwise, we'll never defeat terrorism and the Middle East will remain trapped in a cycle of oppression, ignorance, and poverty under the regional tyrants. Of course, it was the West that put most of them in to power, but that doesn't mean we can't right what we did wrong in the past.

And how are these rights etc to be spread or these wrongs righted (and by who)?

And how are these rights etc to be spread or these wrongs righted (and by who)?

By opening up markets both in the West and in the Middle East, as well as reducing our dependence on oil to remove our reason for supporting the regimes there. The goal should be economic sustainability without oil, since that is the backbone of repression in the region.

Ultimately, the world's biggest oil consumers will have to take responsibility for the mess we created in our quest for the stuff.

By opening up markets both in the West and in the Middle East, as well as reducing our dependence on oil to remove our reason for supporting the regimes there. The goal should be economic sustainability without oil, since that is the backbone of repression in the region.

Ultimately, the world's biggest oil consumers will have to take responsibility for the mess we created in our quest for the stuff.

Seems a reasonable enough idea, and getting away from oil is a nessecity at some stage. (I confess I was dreading an American flag smilie style response there - its too late after a long day for that kind of thing.)

Those who say people in the West don't react violently when things they believe in are slighted in some way have very short memories.

The Columbine massacre is an example of Westerners who killed other students because they felt wronged.

Abortion clinic bombings and the assassination of abortion doctors is another example.

Gay bashing. Jew bashing. Muslim bashing (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/02/13/muslim-montreal060213.html). Poor bashing. Black bashing. And yes, I'm referring to the violent kind, like the gay friend who was left a paraplegic after being jumped by 'Christian' homophobes in Ohio. Oh, and how about the men who rape women because they feel women have somehow usurped their proper role?

The Westerners who respond violently due to faith, alienation, racism, etc clearly do not exemplify the non-violent majority. They do not speak for us, and we would not accept being considered as being the same as them, even if we share some of their beliefs. We should not make the mistake of assuming that extremist Muslims exemplify all of Islam either.

Those who do make that assumption and call for war or other violent acts - or participate in violent acts, such as stabbing the imam (link above) - are behaving as extremely as those they condemn.

The sane people are still writing letters to the editor.

I hope it won't end with nukes, and no I'm not a soldier, but I respect those soldiers very much for what they do, do you?

Not really. Should I?

Respect is earned, not given. People I don't know have no reason to have or desire my respect.

I'm one of these anti-Americans who doesn't believe being in the military deserves extra special respect (verbal asslicking every time the subject is brought up).


In a thread somewhere I've asked an islamist "what do you think about people trying to teach you that jihad is bad by waging war to you?" and got no reply. My answer would have been that they are desperate, they've tried everything else and failed, now that's the last resort.
So if THEY think it (that imperialism Us vs. Them is necessary) would you still support debate? Until when? Would you rather die an innocent than fight?

I'm not sure I understand your question. You're asking me, if they think it it, should I think it? ... or, if they think it, would I stop debating?

As for either dying or fighting, that is a false dichotomy symptomatic of the dualistic mindset that leads radical buffoons on both sides to do what they do and think what they think. For example, referring en masse to the other side as "barbaric" or "uncivilized" or "subhuman" or any other of a number of worse labels. As if all people under some arbitrary subset (practitioner of Islam, for example) can be summed up with a single word.

war ... hoo haw, what is it good for? absolutely nothing, sing it again y'all ...

war ... hoo haw, what is it good for? absolutely nothing, sing it again y'all ...
Been singin' it since the second page, mate! ;)

War
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing

Been singin' it since the second page, mate! ;)

War
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
\I jes' found it ...

Hoow Haw! Absolutely nothing!

Religious wars are basically wars over who has the better imanginary friend. So no I dont want a war on Islam, I do however dont mind war against extremist groups like al-Qaeda.

War
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing[/QUOTE]
Except ensuring world peace....

War
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Except ensuring world peace....[/QUOTE]

Whic it has done with amazing success ... hoo haw!

\I jes' found it ...

Hoow Haw! Absolutely nothing!
It's still a good song... :p

*sings along*
You tell 'em
Nothing! Say it, Say it, Say it!
War, good God now!
What is it good for?

Absolutley Nothing!

Those who say people in the West don't react violently when things they believe in are slighted in some way have very short memories.
The Columbine massacre is an example of Westerners who killed other students because they felt wronged.
Abortion clinic bombings and the assassination of abortion doctors is another example.
Gay bashing. Jew bashing. Muslim bashing (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/02/13/muslim-montreal060213.html). Poor bashing. Black bashing. And yes, I'm referring to the violent kind, like the gay friend who was left a paraplegic after being jumped by 'Christian' homophobes in Ohio. Oh, and how about the men who rape women because they feel women have somehow usurped their proper role?
The Westerners who respond violently due to faith, alienation, racism, etc clearly do not exemplify the non-violent majority. They do not speak for us, and we would not accept being considered as being the same as them, even if we share some of their beliefs. We should not make the mistake of assuming that extremist Muslims exemplify all of Islam either.
Those who do make that assumption and call for war or other violent acts - or participate in violent acts, such as stabbing the imam (link above) - are behaving as extremely as those they condemn.
The sane people are still writing letters to the editor.
The difference is that we don't get pats in the back for doing the right thing for God...

I'm not sure I understand your question. You're asking me, if they think it it, should I think it? ... or, if they think it, would I stop debating?
I've asked what good is going to do debating with those that think it.
As for either dying or fighting, that is a false dichotomy symptomatic of the dualistic mindset that leads radical buffoons on both sides to do what they do and think what they think. For example, referring en masse to the other side as "barbaric" or "uncivilized" or "subhuman" or any other of a number of worse labels. As if all people under some arbitrary subset (practitioner of Islam, for example) can be summed up with a single word.
Hope you do realize that the soldiers stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan are no longer fighting other soldiers, but still there are extremists who attack them regularly.
You are making a false semplification saying that we are referring "en masse" on the islam problem, eventually increasing the problem.

That said, I have yet to see any jihadi anywhere whose boots went unlicked by some eager leftist would ever fail to lick. Sad but true. The Far Left really is the Dhimmitude faction. :p

Sorry, but you truly should go out and get some information about the history of your "right" friends.
Then you might find out who was "licking the boots" of Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein for years. And you might also see what other "terrorists" where on the payment lists of the CIA...

War is a crime. Nothing can change that. Killing is a crime. Nothing can change that.

Maybe Ignorance should be a crime, too. At least in democracy where those ignorant voters decide about the future of the world.

Its the American way...

Fund them - arm them - train them - then bomb them.

We are a very very violent society. Have been since our country was founded. Back in the early days of our country, Americans were considered "terrorists" for our ambush attacks on the British ect.

Though I voted yes, my position is actually that I doubt we will have a choice.

Islam really is the poster child for "Religions that do not play well with others", beating out Christianity by a wide margin (a feat in itself). It has a continuous history of expansion by the sword, and while many of the more enlightened Islamic rulers (such as Salah al-Din and Suleiman the Magnificent) have espoused and conducted policies of tolerance, they are far outnumbered by the more radical and intolerant demagogues such as we currently espy each day on our nightly news shows.

Radical Islam is on the rise because, like fundamentalist Christianity, it provides the believer with a fantasy world in which they can basically do no wrong and are the hero in all cases. Better yet, any one you don't like is The Devil, and can be dealt with without mercy.

In short, it is a licence to give in to the most basic instincts of man with needing to bother with that pesky conscience thing.

Radical Islam also has, like Stalinism and Maoism, a need for an Enemy, a place to direct all that unfocussed anger. The target of choice happens to be us.

We can hope that the sane, sensible type of Islam that has dominated that religion for nearly half a millenium will recover it's feet. Indeed, in much of Islam, such as Malaysia and Indonesia, Radicalism is unpopular and largely unsupported. But I don't think that's what's going to happen.

I unfortunately suspect that Radical Islam is going to push the Western Democracies to the wall. Last time that happened, we destroyed most of Europe, China and Japan sorting it out.

If it comes to it, the West will do what is necessary fr survival. We may not like ourselves much at the end of it; but the real question is whether Islam will survive at all.

In many parts of the world there has been an ongoing war between Islam and other faiths, In the Molucca's and the Philipines (Catholic vs Muslim), in Sudan (southern Christians vs Islamic north), in parts of Ethiopia (orthodox vs Somali muslims) and India (rivalry between Hindu and Muslim), many of these sruggles have been ongoing for a long time, islam and war is nothing new and the fact that the Islamists have turned there attentiopn away from SE asia and Kashmir towards Irag and Chechenya is just a widening of the wars of religion, regardless of your faith or for that matter non faith we are in the midst of a clash of civilisation that goes back to the Caliph Omar and his defeat of the Eastern Romans and the Sassanids.

Islamists have decalred war on the west and its values and we our duty bound to defend our rights and cultural values in the face of this most pernicious of enemies, the time for compromise has passed, the twin towers should serve as a symbol of how far apart we are and the need to fight a war with Victory over Islam being the goal, we must prevail not they.

The West and Islam are entirely likely to go to war. Why do I think it's a good thing? Because whoever wins will do so by uniting the majority of the worlds most powerful forces behind them. One of the two will succeed in wiping out selfish individualism as an appropriate way to run the world/government/life. One of the two will bring a tidal wave of transnationalism and pan-globalism. The one that does, wins, alongside the rest of humanity.

Technology will probably advance as well. The Cold War drove us to the moon. How far might we get this time? Admittedly this coming conflict is unlikely to involve a technological race, but other advances may be made - christian moderation and ecumenicism? A reawakening of cultural pride? An end to racial conflict? Whoever the victor is, the strongest and most effective culture will dominate. The side that can most benefit mankind will be the winner.

Personally, I'd say Islam has the head start on us. It's like the Cold War; Communism as a philosophy couldn't fulfill people's desire for freedom (or wealth. Or moral guidance. Or anything else, for that matter) and thus lost out to the Capitalist system which could fulfill more human desires. Western Culture offers a lifestyle thats economically rich, but morally and spiritually bankrupt. We are taught to defeat others to get ahead and to take care of ourselves before our community. Islam may not have quite the monetary access of the American Dream but it does attempt to build a community beyond national borders or racial and tribal groups. When it comes to uniting people for a conflict, I know who has the advantage.

The weakness and selfishness of the western democracies will have us voting for defence cuts and anti-security liberal "freedoms" right up until the point the crescent flies over the white house. I might quit eating bacon right now.

Personally, I'd say Islam has the head start on us. It's like the Cold War; Communism as a philosophy couldn't fulfill people's desire for freedom (or wealth. Or moral guidance. Or anything else, for that matter) and thus lost out to the Capitalist system which could fulfill more human desires. Western Culture offers a lifestyle thats economically rich, but morally and spiritually bankrupt. We are taught to defeat others to get ahead and to take care of ourselves before our community. Islam may not have quite the monetary access of the American Dream but it does attempt to build a community beyond national borders or racial and tribal groups. When it comes to uniting people for a conflict, I know who has the advantage
You forget women? I think the islamists are morally bankrupt, just look at the structure of their society and the punishments for acts we almost don't consider crimes (having your hand cut-off for shoplifting comes to mind, and how political and spiritual dissent is handled).
I believe most of the moderate islamists will shift, or already are, on our side, hopefully.

Islam has made repeated offenses against Christianity, it is a miracle that a jihad or Crusade hasn't been declared yet. I, for one, am tired of their racism and hatred of Jews, as well as their proclaimed love of Allah. In my opinion, Muhammed was a selfish, opwer hungry, arab who knew that he could play o of the peoples love of material things and war. So, he created Islam, a religion that supports genocide and secular pleasures. More importantly, it promotes mindless racism against non-muslims. The Koran openly calls as non-muslims infidels, and nothing but death and destruction has come out af any Islamic nation in the past 500 years. Another Crusade WILL occur, and this time, Mecca will burn.

Personally, I believe that Islam is more of a cult than a religion. It seems to be an ideology, fascist and even Nazi like Hitlers. Not all Muslims are evil, but the cowards who cover their faces and call for Jihad must be dealt with. Although there is one cause for all this hatred in the world.

RELIGION

It is not a war with Islam but rather a war with jihadis. The fact that some Lefties can't tell the difference is the Left's problem rather than anyone else's. And in case you didn't know it...kamekaze attacks on trade centers, firebombings on nightclubs in Bali and attempts to censor the press that come from Tehran do not qualify as friendly acts so I would count the war as having already started. Good of you to finally notice that something's going on. :rolleyes:

To call SB a "leftie" is laughable at best... n00b! LOL

You need to read more of peoples material before you go throwing stoopid shite like that around.

Islam has made repeated offenses against Christianity, it is a miracle that a jihad or Crusade hasn't been declared yet. I, for one, am tired of their racism and hatred of Jews, as well as their proclaimed love of Allah. In my opinion, Muhammed was a selfish, opwer hungry, arab who knew that he could play o of the peoples love of material things and war. So, he created Islam, a religion that supports genocide and secular pleasures. More importantly, it promotes mindless racism against non-muslims. The Koran openly calls as non-muslims infidels, and nothing but death and destruction has come out af any Islamic nation in the past 500 years. Another Crusade WILL occur, and this time, Mecca will burn.

Amen.

I don't want any wars with Islam, but it would be nice if all the DECAPITATIONS and BOMBINGS stopped.

Hey, don't religion bash. Although I agree that Islam is more of a cult then a religion, you cannot blame faith for hatred. Without faith, hatred would run rampant. Muslims kill Christians, it is a simple fact that to prevent this injustice Chrisitians will figth back. Thus, we have the Crusades. Islam is taking actions that will inevitably lead to another Crusade, rather it be to defent Isarael from those Jihading madmen, or to end the madness once and for all

As for building the dome of the rock on the Western Wall, taer it down, Jerusalem is a Jewish and Chrisitian city, Islam has NO RIGHT AT ALL to it!

In the words of Pope Urban II,
"Dieus Li Vult!!!"
GOD WILLS IT! CRUSADE! DEFEND OUR JEWISH BORTHERS! SAVE THE SOULS OF THE OPPRESSED!

Islam is again trying to dominate the world, as they did more than 1000 years ago! Only the heroic actions of Christendom saved Europe from becomming puppets of the evil religion! Chrisitanity must again unify! Christendom must be formed again! Protestant brothers, Orthodox comrades, we must put aside our differences to defend Judaism from radical Islamic nations, such as Iran. We must save the souls of the common people! CRUSADE!

Hey, don't religion bash. Although I agree that Islam is more of a cult then a religion, you cannot blame faith for hatred. Without faith, hatred would run rampant. Muslims kill Christians, it is a simple fact that to prevent this injustice Chrisitians will figth back. Thus, we have the Crusades. Islam is taking actions that will inevitably lead to another Crusade, rather it be to defent Isarael from those Jihading madmen, or to end the madness once and for all

Erm Muslims couldn't kill christians because there would be NO RELIGION! Hope I've cleared it up for you.

Islam is again trying to dominate the world, as they did more than 1000 years ago! Only the heroic actions of Christendom saved Europe from becomming puppets of the evil religion! Chrisitanity must again unify! Christendom must be formed again! Protestant brothers, Orthodox comrades, we must put aside our differences to defend Judaism from radical Islamic nations, such as Iran. We must save the souls of the common people! CRUSADE!

Erm yeah. Let's save the Jews? I hope you're not referring back to history because there's very little us 'Christians' (In '' thingies because I'm atheist) have done to help Jews. Our Kings used to borrow money from them then kill them to settle the debt.

Atheist are worse then Islams

We should identify the major nongovernment havens of terrorists and arrest them. Then we should try to make peace with Islamic nations, at least try to extend the olive branch.

No, I am talking about a less-political Crusade, one aimed mostly at Iran, to halt the growth of Islam. We must smash the head of the serpent into the ground, and Israel won't complain when their main enemy is destroyed.

In the words of Pope Urban II,
"Dieus Li Vult!!!"
GOD WILLS IT! CRUSADE! DEFEND OUR JEWISH BORTHERS! SAVE THE SOULS OF THE OPPRESSED!

'Borthers' is brothers and Definitely defend them.
Reclaim the land ceded to the hateful palestinians by the Glorious Nation of Israel.

In the name of G-D

1st Crusade, 2nd Crusade, 3rd Crusade, need I go on?

Atheist are worse then Islams
And would you rather have an atheist be in your country, or have your family killed by a Islamic Suicide Bomber?

let's start the Modern Crusade. It's aims will be to prevent the Violence of Islam reaching Non-Islamic Countries. We shall have a peace conference with Osama Bin-Laden, and feast them with Pork and Beef!

War with the Islamic world? No.

War with terrorists (IE, those who attack the institutions of freedom, the West, etc.)... okay.

Or maybe we can spray some sort of airborne/chemical version of valium on the entire middle east... those who aren't jihadists shouldn't be affected so much, but those who are would hopefully be settled down a tad.

Maybe we could put pork in every terrorists dinner? And at every point ask violent protesters if they want a bacon butty from the paki shop!

The difference is that we don't get pats in the back for doing the right thing for God...

And who pats the moderate Muslims on the back? If anything they get patted down everywhere they go, or more seriously they get ignored in favor of the screaming, frothing at the mouth "Kill the Infidels" fruitcakes that make for bigger news ratings and a more acceptable Western perception of Muslims as a whole.

Anyone else ever pondered that the human race has no natural population controls except war? Now, I don't approve of war on moral grounds, and certainly not a war over something as stupid as religious differences. However, look at history; we have population boom interspaced with periods of disease and war that control that growth. Now we have peace and eradication of diseases. Except we keep reproducing faster than we die. And then people complain about world hunger and disease in the same breath. You know, a little smallpox could do us some good. Practically every species has a related pox. Now we don't. Look what a mess we've made, now.
Hehe, got a little off the topic of war there :D

And who pats the moderate Muslims on the back? If anything they get patted down everywhere they go, or more seriously they get ignored in favor of the screaming, frothing at the mouth "Kill the Infidels" fruitcakes that make for bigger news ratings and a more acceptable Western perception of Muslims as a whole.
So you don't, what about me?

I wanted to post Malachi chapter 1, 4-7 King James version for the crowd, just so you know that I don't get pats in the back either, and the screaming scares me too, ah well, here it is:
4: Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
5: And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.
6: A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?
7: Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible.
:eek: :confused:

The last thing I ever want to see in my lifetime is a War on Islam or any other religion for that matter! This whole cultural clash is horrible! Why can't we just bitterly co-exist and make money off of eachother?

No. Not at all. I have no real problems with Islam.

I don't but..
some people don't know when to STFU and go home and play with themselves..

they end up getting :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :sniper: if they are lucky.
those poor bastards who aren't get this guy....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/81/ChuckNorris.jpg/335px-ChuckNorris.jpg

And would you rather have an atheist be in your country, or have your family killed by a Islamic Suicide Bomber?
It's great that you don't speak for all atheists, as they generally prove to have a higher standard of what comes out of their mouths...

No, I am talking about a less-political Crusade, one aimed mostly at Iran, to halt the growth of Islam. We must smash the head of the serpent into the ground, and Israel won't complain when their main enemy is destroyed.

Sorry, but this isn't a serpent. 'Tis a hydra situation you're talking here.

I really wish God would intervene and kill us all. It would save a lot of conflict, suffering, and frustration and God could finally retire. Or, shall I say semi-retire, unless he'd like to take the rest of the planets out too. :)

No I don't want war. But I think Iran does.

Hold on Listen for a second.

The President of Iran is contantly pulling things that are solely designed to piss off the International Community. I have to think why? Is it stupidity?
No I think he wants to Goad the West into a war, using that war he will turn that into an excuse to Rally all Muslims (Even the moderate ones) to rise up and destroy the west, not to mention the rest of the middle east would side on him eventually, in the process, Israel would be destroyed, I have a feeling he doesn't care how many of his people die, as long as Israel is destroyed in the end. Not Stupid, but sick and insane? yes.

Or another possibility is that the President of Iran realizes that America/Israel will inevitably start a war with his nation so he is setting the stage to make so that the war will like an attack on Islam guided by Israel so that when the war begins he'll be able to rally Muslims to his defence and against the attackers.

The last thing I ever want to see in my lifetime is a War on Islam or any other religion for that matter! This whole cultural clash is horrible! Why can't we just bitterly co-exist and make money off of eachother?

Because once the middle east runs out of oil, they will have no major exports, effectively crippling them for decades. As far as just co-existing (forgetting making money) yea, that ought to be possible, except that the human genepool has unfortunately precipitated beings called fundamentalists who can't just leave other people alone. Seriously, if you think that these people are going to burn in hell, anyway, why does an untimely death in this world matter at all? So in that respect, yes, we ought to be able to coexist. If you think that other people are going to be eternally punished for their beliefs: good for you, I hope it helps you sleep at night. But don't start killing them for dissagreeing.
Of course, there's also the Israel problem. That's a different matter. I don't expect coexistence there. I don't care about religious differences, you go ANYWHERE and take a chunk out of a country and bring in a bunch of people from another continent and people are gonna be pissed. I don't suspect any of my fellow Americans would like to see a new country be created where your state is right now and have it populated with civil war victims from an African country. Think about it.

Or another possibility is that the President of Iran realizes that America/Israel will inevitably start a war with his nation so he is setting the stage to make so that the war will like an attack on Islam guided by Israel so that when the war begins he'll be able to rally Muslims to his defence and against the attackers.

A nice theory that is belied by the fact that radical Islamics attacked the U.S. on 9/11, blew up the U.S.S. Cole, blew up a club in Bali, etc. Sorry, I have no doubt that if Iran develops a nuke weapon, they will use it on the U.S. or Israel if they can in a first strike mode. They will make the first strike and then blame it on U.S./Israeli policy and justify the first strike on their lack of an ability to withstand a full out U.S. assualt and first strike. They will say they acted in a "pre-emptive" mode. They will act like the lawyer and the paralegal; to wit:

A lawyer in a hot air balloon, with an hour to make it to a meeting with an important client is lost. He descends and spots a woman on the ground and yells out to her, "Excuse me, can you tell me where I am? I have an important meeting to get to."

The woman replies "Your about 40 feet in the air at around Latitude 57 degrees and Longitude 43 degrees"

"You must be a paralegal" says the man in the balloon.

"Yes, I am, how did you know?" asked the woman.

"Because you told me exactly what I asked to know without giving me any useful information. I'll now be late for my meeting since I still don't know where to go." the man replied.

"Well, you must be a lawyer." said the woman

"I am, how did you know?" asked the man.

"because you got in the situtation you're in as the result of a lot of hot air, you arranged the appointment you are now going to miss, you have no clue what to do now, but it is MY fault." she replied.

Iran and radical Islamics are the lawyer - they will create the mess, but then blame it on the paralegal - the U.S. and western civilization. Radical Islamics blame the west and jews for everything that is wrong in their culture/countries and refuse to accept any blame for their own actions or lack of actions. Yeah, the U.S., Israel and other western countries have screwed the Islamic world in the past, but what has the Islamic world done to overcome their adversity - use suicide bombers to kill their own and innocent women and children? I hardly call that introspection or issue resolution. No, radical Islam is out to destroy civilization as the west knows it and impose a "Holy Islamic Empire" form of government everywhere. If they can't achieve this goal, then they are quite happy to kill everyone, everywhere. Radical Islam needs no reason to kill you. Keruvalia - the minute you try to stick a flower in the muzzle of your radical Islamic brother's gun he'll blow your ass away in the name of the same Allah you worship with him.

I don't but..
some people don't know when to STFU and go home and play with themselves..

they end up getting :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :sniper: if they are lucky.
those poor bastards who aren't get this guy....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/81/ChuckNorris.jpg/335px-ChuckNorris.jpg

No kidding.

And The Mighty Chuck has a look that says "I want to roundhouse someone in this ring, in this suit for that K&G Superstore Commercial."

...and attempts to censor the press that come from Tehran do not qualify as friendly acts so I would count the war as having already started. Good of you to finally notice that something's going on. :rolleyes:

And there's no censorship of the press in the United States? When did Dick's friend get shot, and when did we find out? Or maybe they're just slow... like in not reading some silly report entitled "Bin Laden *DETERMINED* to Strike Within U.S."

War with Islam: bad idea, did it already, ended in stalemate before it got corrupted (see also "crusades, the").

I wanted to harp on this for a moment ...

You say "many" ... what do you mean?

There are, by most counts, 1.2 to 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.

How "many" of those are the kinds of which you speak? How "many" are rioting over cartoons? How "many" are strapping on bombs? How "many" are hijacking airplanes?

Compare your "many" to the total.

I'm guessing it's less than 0.2%. With such a minority, why are you worried?

Sure, why would anyone be worried? Really, when talking about people strapping on bombs and hijacking airplanes, how many does it take before it becomes a problem that must be dealt with??? Certainly it is the tiny minority that is the problem, but it is still a problem.
Unless we are willing to live with that kind of thing, the only real option is to eliminate that tiny minority. Sadly, easier said than done.