NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, another "give Cabra some advice" thread.
If I start to bother/bore you, please just ignore it.

Many of you will know it already, I'm currently in a long-distance sort-of relationship with a married man. No, I'm not trying to break up his marriage, and yes, I know, I am "the other woman". I'm fine with that. I sometimes would like to be able to see him now and then (so far, we met once, 1.5 years ago), but otherwise it was a perfect relationship for me. It started as a friendship, and just grew closer and closer.

Until he found the other other woman. Which, as such, wouldn't have been that bad either, had he not tried to end our friendship a few days after he met her. I had been away for a few days at that time, so I felt the betrayal especially hard. And I finally managed to convince him not to give up this friendship.

I asked him to end it, he refused. I asked him, after he had met her for the first time, not to meet her again at least until we had had a chance to meet again, he refused. I asked him if I could join them, he refused (well, and she refused. And it wasn't the best idea to begin with). I asked him not to tell me about it, but he half-refused, and it's no good anyway, as it just makes me paranoid, really.

His point of view is "I'm sorry, but come to terms with it or end the friendship"

And frankly, I don't know what to do. I can't do either. I've struggled these past few months to come to terms with it, and failed miserably.
I don't want to end the friendship, it means the world to me. And, in fairness, I still get a lot back from it.

Is there any third option I could try? I really don't know what to do any more...

Well, if she's more local and he feels it's going to be a meaningful relationship, you'll just have to get used to it. Met once, 1.5 years ago? Real love trumps that, I'm afraid.

Well, if she's more local and he feels it's going to be a meaningful relationship, you'll just have to get used to it. Met once, 1.5 years ago? Real love trumps that, I'm afraid.

He doesn't love me, I know that.
Doesn't change the fact that I do, though.



I'm pathetic.

He doesn't love me, I know that.
Doesn't change the fact that I do, though.

I'm pathetic.
Nah, you're just lonely. One day maybe you'll meet someone real. Though I speak as someone who is probably working late on Tuesday. :(

Nah, you're just lonely. One day maybe you'll meet someone real. Though I speak as someone who is probably working late on Tuesday. :(

See, that's where I get really pathetic. I don't want to meet someone real. I tried a few times over the 2.5 years I've known my married friend, and always ended it again as I was seriously lying to myself about wanting to be with somebody else... and I didn't want other people to be hurt by that.

Ok, another "give Cabra some advice" thread.
If I start to bother/bore you, please just ignore it.

Many of you will know it already, I'm currently in a long-distance sort-of relationship with a married man. No, I'm not trying to break up his marriage, and yes, I know, I am "the other woman". I'm fine with that. I sometimes would like to be able to see him now and then (so far, we met once, 1.5 years ago), but otherwise it was a perfect relationship for me. It started as a friendship, and just grew closer and closer.

Until he found the other other woman. Which, as such, wouldn't have been that bad either, had he not tried to end our friendship a few days after he met her. I had been away for a few days at that time, so I felt the betrayal especially hard. And I finally managed to convince him not to give up this friendship.

I asked him to end it, he refused. I asked him, after he had met her for the first time, not to meet her again at least until we had had a chance to meet again, he refused. I asked him if I could join them, he refused (well, and she refused. And it wasn't the best idea to begin with). I asked him not to tell me about it, but he half-refused, and it's no good anyway, as it just makes me paranoid, really.

His point of view is "I'm sorry, but come to terms with it or end the friendship"

And frankly, I don't know what to do. I can't do either. I've struggled these past few months to come to terms with it, and failed miserably.
I don't want to end the friendship, it means the world to me. And, in fairness, I still get a lot back from it.

Is there any third option I could try? I really don't know what to do any more...
Well, I'm the last person to give relationship advice... so all I can offer right now is... :fluffle:

See, that's where I get really pathetic. I don't want to meet someone real. I tried a few times over the 2.5 years I've known my married friend, and always ended it again as I was seriously lying to myself about wanting to be with somebody else...
That's the sort of committment issue that is way out of my area. I'm tempted to say, settle for "less" and see how it goes. You may find after a while you get a lot more out of it. But I'll leave the advice to someone else.

Well, I'm the last person to give relationship advice... so all I can offer right now is... :fluffle:

And that's a lot, really. Thank you. :fluffle:

after thinking about it... I would say...

let go. It's hard and I know it's not easy. but holding on too tight can cause resentment, and that can be more painful than what it is now. :(

but again, remember, you're talking to one who is a newbie when it comes to relationships.

Who says you have to quit cold turkey? I'd be looking out for someone closer to home, and gradually wean yourself off this guy. (This guy is bad news.)

You are nothing but a mistress. You're not a friend to him. Deal with it. Don't go all "but I love him" and "we're such good friends." You know what you are: nothing but a mistress. And you've just discovered how easily replaceable you are.

If you can't live with this, stop doing so, then.

Speaking from a male perspective, the fact he's married, has you and then got himself yet another indicates to me that he has no intention of ever committing to anyone or anything. He's the sort of guy who is always going to be on the lookout for more, no matter how much a woman does her best to satisfy him. He gets off not on commitment but the idea of having lots of women want him and being able to pick and choose who to be with at that particular moment.

Very trite and cliched, but you are better off without him. He's selfish, immature and unable to commit. And I doubt he'll ever be able to.
I flatted with a guy like that. Even when he had a gorgeous g/f who would do anything for him, he was still out chasing other women.
Funnily enough, when they finally broke up, he got all obsessed over her and practically started stalking her. When he found out we had shagged a couple of times (once when she turned up and he was at his other g/f's house, the other time when he was passed out drunk in the lounge) he got furious* and threw me out of the flat (unfortunately the lease was in his name so he could do that). So I know first hand what goes through a man like that's mind.


Speaking personally, I've known an extremely wonderful and beautiful woman for coming up to 3 years now. We immediately clicked the first time we met. We've had sex once, and it was bloody fantastic I might add. I could easily fall totally in love with her, except for one thing: She's married with a kid.
And I've had to force myself to accept that it's in her best interest to stay that way. Her husband's a really nice guy (though he is 15 years older than her), who's totally supportive of her. I can't in all honestly offer that. I still want to travel and do lots of other shite before I 'settle down'. So an affair with her, as awesome as it would be, would be an incredibly selfish thing to do, as it would screw her life up (but not mine) if and when it got found out. I care too much for her to do that, even though I can't help having huge pangs of regret over what would be a fantastic few months/years.
You meet the right person at the wrong time/wrong place. Just have to recognise that, deal with it and move on.



*Didn't help when I mentioned how much more she enjoyed the sex with me than him. What can I say? I have an evil streak.

He doesn't love me, I know that.
Doesn't change the fact that I do, though.



I'm pathetic.

First off, you're NOT pathetic.

Second, HE'S MARRIED! And he's CHEATING ON HIS WIFE! Doesn't that shock you?

I know you're probably going to hate me for saying this, but the truth hurts: You need to dissociate yourself from this man. Now, I know that's going to be hard - I have EXTREMELY strong feelings for a good female friend of mine, but I've chosen not to pursue it because of certain differences (I'm a Christian, she's a Darwinist - ie it's not going to work anyway).

I think, in your case, you need to completely break off contact. He's not interested. Either you sever the ties or you get your heart completely shattered. I'd advise the first choice.

Oh, and best of luck. :fluffle:

I don't want to end the friendship, it means the world to me.

Why ?

And, in fairness, I still get a lot back from it.

Like what ?

Those two questions are pretty important.

Maybe you could beat her up.... if she's not from anywhere near you, find an NS poster who does live near (there's bound to be someone) and convince him/her to beat up that other other woman

And :fluffle:

Now, I know that's going to be hard - I have EXTREMELY strong feelings for a good female friend of mine, but I've chosen not to pursue it because of certain differences (I'm a Christian, she's a Darwinist - ie it's not going to work anyway).

Become a Roman Catholic - problem solved ;)

I don't want to end the friendship, it means the world to me.

Why ?

And, in fairness, I still get a lot back from it.

Like what ?

Those two questions are pretty important.

I'll totally second this. The answers to this are basically what makes you hang on to this "relationship" and put the rest of your life on hold. Honestly looking at the situation and asking yourself what you get out of it and what makes this situation seemingly more preferrable than any of your other options would be the first thing to do.

ETA: Actually, I'm pretty sure you've already done that, so - from an outsiders perspective, - the question remains if you were really, really honest when doing it, including facing potential uncomfortable truths about yourself (I'm not saying there are any, obviously, not even knowing you, but I'd guess there were, seeing as how unhappy you seem with the arrangement and yet how you hang on it. I know if I were in that situation there'd probably be a lot more to it on my part in terms of "issues" than meets the eye.)

Let him go. If he's not willing to put time into your relationship, friendship or not, he's not worth it. You shouldn't have to go chasing after friends, it should be a meeting.

No, you're not pathedic for wanting to keep a friendship, because it does hurt. But chase him now, and he'll just hurt you again. And he'll keep on doing so till you finally let him go.

Hopefully though, after you leave, he'll figure out what an idiot he was to give you up and will come back with that understanding.

First off, you're NOT pathetic.

Second, HE'S MARRIED! And he's CHEATING ON HIS WIFE! Doesn't that shock you?

I know you're probably going to hate me for saying this, but the truth hurts: You need to dissociate yourself from this man. Now, I know that's going to be hard - I have EXTREMELY strong feelings for a good female friend of mine, but I've chosen not to pursue it because of certain differences (I'm a Christian, she's a Darwinist - ie it's not going to work anyway).

I think, in your case, you need to completely break off contact. He's not interested. Either you sever the ties or you get your heart completely shattered. I'd advise the first choice.

Oh, and best of luck. :fluffle:

No, it doesn't shock me. And that's not really my problem...
The problem I have is that he is not willing to accept any sort of compromise regarding the second person.

Why ?



Like what ?

Those two questions are pretty important.

I didn't mention that, so I ought to be fair here:
He is spending and incredible amount of time with me. And I'm not talking a few evenings a week, I'm talking around 8 hours a day. We chat online while at work, and at night as well. As things are, he is spending actually more time with me than with his wife, or even with this other woman. I've been working up some childhood traumas in the last few years and months, and he helped me through a lot there. I'm an easily depressed person, and he makes sure to be there, listen to me, and help me wherever he can.
We are extremely close, he is the first person I ever really completely trusted in my life. Which kind of makes the situation double hard. I wouldn't say he betrayed that trust, he's always been completely honest.

its time to move on.

its one thing to be second and quite another to be a distant 3rd in his life.

relationships sometimes just run their course. this one has. there is no sense trying to keep what is no longer there. its not good for you.

you need to be "single" for a while and re-center yourself. yeah it sucks now. it will suck for a while. what other choice do you have? once you find yourself again you can maybe look for a new man. it may take a while before you are ready to extend yourself again.

if you are interested in a relationship you have to move on. he already has. all you can be is stuck in the past. you need a future.

Let him go. If he's not willing to put time into your relationship, friendship or not, he's not worth it. You shouldn't have to go chasing after friends, it should be a meeting.

No, you're not pathedic for wanting to keep a friendship, because it does hurt. But chase him now, and he'll just hurt you again. And he'll keep on doing so till you finally let him go.

Hopefully though, after you leave, he'll figure out what an idiot he was to give you up and will come back with that understanding.

The problem about ending that friendship is.... I would hurt myself. More than I'm able to bear, I fear.

its time to move on.

its one thing to be second and quite another to be a distant 3rd in his life.

relationships sometimes just run their course. this one has. there is no sense trying to keep what is no longer there. its not good for you.

you need to be "single" for a while and re-center yourself. yeah it sucks now. it will suck for a while. what other choice do you have? once you find yourself again you can maybe look for a new man. it may take a while before you are ready to extend yourself again.

if you are interested in a relationship you have to move on. he already has. all you can be is stuck in the past. you need a future.

He keeps telling me that I'm still number 2 where friendship is concerned. That I'm in no way behind her.
And yet I worry... :(

He keeps telling me that I'm still number 2 where friendship is concerned. That I'm in no way behind her.
And yet I worry... :(
its not like you have to act today. you know in your heart where you really stand with him. over the next few weeks you will know what you have to do. you dont have to rush it. it will happen on its own.

its not like you have to act today. you know in your heart where you really stand with him. over the next few weeks you will know what you have to do. you dont have to rush it. it will happen on its own.

That's some good advice, thank you.
I tend to rush things sometimes, or to force decisions... I'm trying to stop doing that.

I hate to be the mean one, but did you really think that a man who would cheat on his wife was going to treat you with any type of respect? You are worth more than being someone's after thought, someone's "what I do when I am not with the one I cared enough to commit to". So, he doesn't want to be your friend, good. You deserve better friends than that. It's hard to let go, it's hard to move on, but you really are going to just have to do it anyway. Life will suck for a while, but when you get over it(and you will) you will find someone worthy of your time and attention and life will be better than ever.

He keeps telling me that I'm still number 2 where friendship is concerned.

You're not his friend. You are his mistress. Stop deluding yourself.

You're not his friend. You are his mistress.

This is 100% correct.

If you can't live with the way it is, stop having contact with him. Otherwise, just accept it for what it is.

There is no 'magic bullet' that is going to make him fall in love with you. It sounds like you are just someone he has cybersex with. You should deal with it as it is. Not as you wish it to be.

Being "the other woman" is a losing proposition under any and all conditions. End the relationship, no matter how much it hurts at the time, concentrate on becoming the best "you" you can be. Eventually someone much better will become attracted to you because you're your own person, and they'll be a thousand times better because they'll love you for who and what you are.

You deserve better friends than that. It's hard to let go, it's hard to move on, but you really are going to just have to do it anyway. Life will suck for a while, but when you get over it(and you will) you will find someone worthy of your time and attention and life will be better than ever.

"You deserve..." I hate those words. I honestly don't want what everybody thinks I deserve, sorry.
And, no, I've no intention on finding anybody. I never had. He is just the one person who actually invested the better part of one year just being there for me and gaining my friendship before anything moved from friendship to sexual relationship.
So, if I end that, one thing is for sure, I will not go around looking for some substitute.

Being "the other woman" is a losing proposition under any and all conditions. End the relationship, no matter how much it hurts at the time, concentrate on becoming the best "you" you can be. Eventually someone much better will become attracted to you because you're your own person, and they'll be a thousand times better because they'll love you for who and what you are.
I agree. The best you can ever get in this relationship is #2, and you deserve to be #1, why spend the time being less than you are worth?

So, if I end that, one thing is for sure, I will not go around looking for some substitute.

And for an alternative ? Not dumping him, but having someone else besides him ?

"You deserve..." I hate those words. I honestly don't want what everybody thinks I deserve, sorry.
okay, so what do you want?



And, no, I've no intention on finding anybody. I never had. He is just the one person who actually invested the better part of one year just being there for me and gaining my friendship before anything moved from friendship to sexual relationship.
So, if I end that, one thing is for sure, I will not go around looking for some substitute.
if being alone is preferable to you than do that for a while, there isn't anything wrong with it. Just because someone spends time with you doesn't mean they love you, and even if they love you they can still treat you badly Why set your self up for dissappointment over someone who will never give you first place in thier life? don't you think you are worth being someone's #1?

I agree. The best you can ever get in this relationship is #2, and you deserve to be #1, why spend the time being less than you are worth?
Verily, the great and wise Smunkeeville hath sayed a sooth! :D

Being "the other woman" is a losing proposition under any and all conditions. End the relationship, no matter how much it hurts at the time, concentrate on becoming the best "you" you can be. Eventually someone much better will become attracted to you because you're your own person, and they'll be a thousand times better because they'll love you for who and what you are.

I know you mean well, thank you for that.
But that's just what I meant about lying to myself and others. There's no point in being loved if you don't love back, is there?

I know you mean well, thank you for that.

But that's just what I meant about lying to myself and others. There's no point in being loved if you don't love back, is there?
Nope.

okay, so what do you want?
if being alone is preferable to you than do that for a while, there isn't anything wrong with it. Just because someone spends time with you doesn't mean they love you, and even if they love you they can still treat you badly Why set your self up for dissappointment over someone who will never give you first place in thier life? don't you think you are worth being someone's #1?

I might be, I don't know. But I do know I don't want to be. I absolutely hate being somebody's sole center of attention.

I think the way things are, they are not perfect, but thinking about it, I don't have the slightest problem at all with being number 2. I wouldn't even have started the relationship if I had.
The problem I have is, as Fass put it quite bluntly, the fear of being replaced.

You're not his friend. You are his mistress. Stop deluding yourself.

I don't agree with you on much, Fass, and although you put it harshly, you're pretty much right. Cabra, you've put yourself in a position where you can be easily hurt and used by this guy, and then abandon and forgotten. He's married, you can't have what you want, and it's as easy as that. You need to move on, or there is a chance that you will destroy yourself.

And for an alternative ? Not dumping him, but having someone else besides him ?

No applicants right now... otherwise, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I might be, I don't know. But I do know I don't want to be. I absolutely hate being somebody's sole center of attention.

I think the way things are, they are not perfect, but thinking about it, I don't have the slightest problem at all with being number 2. I wouldn't even have started the relationship if I had.
The problem I have is, as Fass put it quite bluntly, the fear of being replaced.
and you will always have reason to fear being replaced when you are in a relationship with this man, that's what he does, that's his M.O.

He replaced his wife with you, he replaced you with another woman, he will replace her with someone else, you will always be trying to get back into what you think is your "rightful place" while he will always be looking for the "next new thing". I understand not wanting to be someone's sole center of attention, but wouldn't you rather be in a relationship where you always know where it stands? not worrying about being tossed aside?

No applicants right now... otherwise, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Clarification: I meant for friendship and spending time together - not for any further arrangements (though those would probably be a nice bonus).
Unless you chat with other people too in those 8 hours a day you spend with him, I think it would be wise if you tried to get some.

and you will always have reason to fear being replaced when you are in a relationship with this man, that's what he does, that's his M.O.

He replaced his wife with you, he replaced you with another woman, he will replace her with someone else, you will always be trying to get back into what you think is your "rightful place" while he will always be looking for the "next new thing". I understand not wanting to be someone's sole center of attention, but wouldn't you rather be in a relationship where you always know where it stands? not worrying about being tossed aside?

Wrong kind of question ;)
The question is would I rather have a relationship with him, including the fear of being tossed aside, or do I just want any relationship with anybody, with the security of not being tossed aside.
I answered that myself a few hours ago, I'd rather have the relationship with him, including the downsides.

Clarification: I meant for friendship and spending time together - not for any further arrangements (though those would probably be a nice bonus).
Unless you chat with other people too in those 8 hours a day you spend with him, I think it would be wise if you tried to get some.

While I'm not the most social of persons, I'm not completely isolated, either. I do have friends besides him ;)

Wrong kind of question ;)
The question is would I rather have a relationship with him, including the fear of being tossed aside, or do I just want any relationship with anybody, with the security of not being tossed aside.
I answered that myself a few hours ago, I'd rather have the relationship with him, including the downsides.
what's so great about him that you put yourself through this? stress out over being replaced and end up deciding that even though he treats you like crap that you would want to stay with him?

I don't understand.......

what's so great about him that you put yourself through this? stress out over being replaced and end up deciding that even though he treats you like crap that you would want to stay with him?

I don't understand.......

Apart from my feelings for him?

Apart from my feelings for him?
why do you choose to stay with someone who doesn't meet your requirements?

I used to be in an abusive relationship, he would beat the crap out of me, almost killed me once, I loved him, I had feelings for him, but laying in the hospital it occured to me that my feelings were not helping the relationship any at all, I was relying on my feelings to make up for the crap he put me through, it's not worth it. It was hard to leave him, it hurt emotionally, but now 8 years out I realize that I was in a losing situation, feelings aside that relationship was never going to get better, I was always going to be in fear, I was never going to have what I wanted.

why do you choose to stay with someone who doesn't meet your requirements?

I used to be in an abusive relationship, he would beat the crap out of me, almost killed me once, I loved him, I had feelings for him, but laying in the hospital it occured to me that my feelings were not helping the relationship any at all, I was relying on my feelings to make up for the crap he put me through, it's not worth it. It was hard to leave him, it hurt emotionally, but now 8 years out I realize that I was in a losing situation, feelings aside that relationship was never going to get better, I was always going to be in fear, I was never going to have what I wanted.

He meets most of my requirements... and now that you put it that way, this is the only requirement he doesn't meet.

He is incredibly patient, he is supportive in most things I do, he is a creative inspiration (he makes music, I paint and draw, and we can work together brilliantly, despite the distance), he keeps telling me to try and find a "real" boyfriend as he thinks it would be better for me (why is it so hard to make people understand that I simply don't want this?), he does help and support me a lot with my fits of depression and my nightmares.

... now I feel mean to kick up a fuss about the one instance when he doesn't meet my requirements... :(

He meets most of my requirements... and now that you put it that way, this is the only requirement he doesn't meet.

He is incredibly patient, he is supportive in most things I do, he is a creative inspiration (he makes music, I paint and draw, and we can work together brilliantly, despite the distance), he keeps telling me to try and find a "real" boyfriend as he thinks it would be better for me (why is it so hard to make people understand that I simply don't want this?), he does help and support me a lot with my fits of depression and my nightmares.

... now I feel mean to kick up a fuss about the one instance when he doesn't meet my requirements... :(
but it would be just as easy to find someone who does all that, and meets all your requirements.

I could have said the same thing (and I actually did) about my abusive boyfriend, he loved me, he was supportive, he told me I was beautiful, he always bought me little presents, he listened to me when I was mad at my mom, he helped me move out of my parents house, he was always there when I needed him, only one minor thing, he would get drunk and hit me with a tire iron, I mean it didn't even happen too often, just like once a week and it was my fault anyway because I made him mad.

see how ridiculous that sounds? I believed it too, when I was in that situation it looked like the good outweighed the bad, I though there was nobody else that would be so good to me, I thought I didn't even deserve what good I was getting, one bad thing in all that good.........

I can see now that I was rationalizing. You are doing the same thing, you want someone who will be with you, someone who will stay with you, someone who won't replace you, and you can't seem to see that this is not the guy for that senario, you say you are okay being #2, but I think you probably aren't, you are rationalizing, you think that's all you can get, you think that you don't deserve more, maybe you don't ,but you want it.....why not get what you want?

but it would be just as easy to find someone who does all that, and meets all your requirements.

I could have said the same thing (and I actually did) about my abusive boyfriend, he loved me, he was supportive, he told me I was beautiful, he always bought me little presents, he listened to me when I was mad at my mom, he helped me move out of my parents house, he was always there when I needed him, only one minor thing, he would get drunk and hit me with a tire iron, I mean it didn't even happen too often, just like once a week and it was my fault anyway because I made him mad.

see how ridiculous that sounds? I believed it too, when I was in that situation it looked like the good outweighed the bad, I though there was nobody else that would be so good to me, I thought I didn't even deserve what good I was getting, one bad thing in all that good.........

I can see now that I was rationalizing. You are doing the same thing, you want someone who will be with you, someone who will stay with you, someone who won't replace you, and you can't seem to see that this is not the guy for that senario, you say you are okay being #2, but I think you probably aren't, you are rationalizing, you think that's all you can get, you think that you don't deserve more, maybe you don't ,but you want it.....why not get what you want?

Because the thing I want is him promising that he won't meet the other woman before we meet again (we planned that in a few weeks). And I can't get that.

Because the thing I want is him promising that he won't meet the other woman before we meet again (we planned that in a few weeks). And I can't get that.
and you won't, even if he does promise, his promise is meaningless, he promised his wife to be with her only forever (wedding vows) and yet he has been with you, even if he promises you have no reason to trust him, and every reason to think he is lying.

it's the same as when my abuser would say "I am so sorry, it will never happen again" the fact that it ever happened should have been a big clue to me that it would happen again, that he was lying, and even if he wasn't lying that it would happen again because the man (and I use that word loosely) had no self control at all.

and you won't, even if he does promise, his promise is meaningless, he promised his wife to be with her only forever (wedding vows) and yet he has been with you, even if he promises you have no reason to trust him, and every reason to think he is lying.

it's the same as when my abuser would say "I am so sorry, it will never happen again" the fact that it ever happened should have been a big clue to me that it would happen again, that he was lying, and even if he wasn't lying that it would happen again because the man (and I use that word loosely) had no self control at all.

Actually, I don't think he did promise that. They never had a church wedding, only a civil marriage. I'm still trying to find the exact words, but I don't think they include anything about fidelity.

And I would believe him. He never broke a single promise to me yet. That's actually more than can be said about myself.

Actually, I don't think he did promise that. They never had a church wedding, only a civil marriage. I'm still trying to find the exact words, but I don't think they include anything about fidelity.

And I would believe him. He never broke a single promise to me yet. That's actually more than can be said about myself.
you are making excuses for him. When you are married, church or otherwise it's generally accepted that you won't cheat. Does his wife know about you? I doubt she does, you want to know why? because he is cheating on her.

Apart from my feelings for him?

You seem to think he's the only man you could ever have feelings for. Anyone else think that's true? Anyone? Buehler?

You said you were happy to be the second woman, and he's this great, honest guy, and you have this great relationship - but do you think he's been honest with his wife? He's not honest. He's not great. He's a liar and a cheat. And now you're all upset he's cheating on you? You already knew he was a cheat. What makes you any better than his wife? You used to have that spark of "I'm cheating, and this is new and different" but it's been a while, and that faded. I'm sure that happened when he got married too, but with his wife "Wow, this is new and different, I like it..." and then it fades, and you get used to it. He's used to you now too, and you're surprised you're being replaced/supplemented?

Also, there's no way you really know this guy if you've only met once. I had a friend via the interent whom I'd met through a mutual friend. He's a great guy. I got to know him really well, just chatting, and talking on the phone, but never meeting. I seriously thought there was a shot with us. So did he. So we met. He's still a great guy, but after meeting him the once, I realised there's a whole side to a person you only get to know in person. You can be anyone on the internet, but you're never your whole person except in person. If you've only met this guy once, there's a whole side of him you've only met once, and don't know at all. Don't fool yourself into thinking you know him that well.

you are making excuses for him. When you are married, church or otherwise it's generally accepted that you won't cheat. Does his wife know about you? I doubt she does, you want to know why? because he is cheating on her.

So? I'm not replacing her, never have, never will.

...he keeps telling me to try and find a "real" boyfriend as he thinks it would be better for me (why is it so hard to make people understand that I simply don't want this?)...

It sounds like he enjoys the friendship, but isn't interested (at least not anymore) in it being a relationship past just being friends. If you're ok with just being friends, I don't see why you can't keep being friends. As long as you're not stringing yourself along in hopes that you're not REALLY just friends. It sounds like the friendship is therepudic and perhaps even mutually beneficial. Great. Just don't make yourself the "other woman" when he doesn't even want that.

Oh, and listen to his advice... it sounds like maybe you listen to everything else, except the one thing you don't want to hear. "I'm not your boyfriend." Sure, he's a cheater, but he apparently doesn't want to cheat with you anymore. He's probably more of the one-night-stand kind of cheater. (Or one-week or whatever.)

You should've listened to Dr. Phil I think it was last week. Some guy was talking about wanting to marry his "other woman" in addition to his wife. For some reason, his wife wasn't ok with that, even though he and the "other woman" were. I don't usually listen to Dr. Phil, but he really went off on them.

So? I'm not replacing her, never have, never will.
isn't that depressing? someone who says they love you, yet they are not willing to actually be with you?

I still don't understand what exactly you are getting out of this relationship besides low self esteem, and stress, and getting used to being used.

isn't that depressing? someone who says they love you, yet they are not willing to actually be with you?

I still don't understand what exactly you are getting out of this relationship besides low self esteem, and stress, and getting used to being used.

He doesn't love me.
And even if he did, I don't think I would want him around me physically all the time.

Low self esteem? *lol If one thing, this relationship has blown my self-esteem through the roof. You haven't know me before, but let me tell you that before that, I wouldn't even have had enough self-etsteem to even post my opinions on a forum like this...

Ok, another "give Cabra some advice" thread.
If I start to bother/bore you, please just ignore it.

Many of you will know it already, I'm currently in a long-distance sort-of relationship with a married man. No, I'm not trying to break up his marriage, and yes, I know, I am "the other woman". I'm fine with that. I sometimes would like to be able to see him now and then (so far, we met once, 1.5 years ago), but otherwise it was a perfect relationship for me. It started as a friendship, and just grew closer and closer.

Until he found the other other woman. Which, as such, wouldn't have been that bad either, had he not tried to end our friendship a few days after he met her. I had been away for a few days at that time, so I felt the betrayal especially hard. And I finally managed to convince him not to give up this friendship.

I asked him to end it, he refused. I asked him, after he had met her for the first time, not to meet her again at least until we had had a chance to meet again, he refused. I asked him if I could join them, he refused (well, and she refused. And it wasn't the best idea to begin with). I asked him not to tell me about it, but he half-refused, and it's no good anyway, as it just makes me paranoid, really.

His point of view is "I'm sorry, but come to terms with it or end the friendship"

And frankly, I don't know what to do. I can't do either. I've struggled these past few months to come to terms with it, and failed miserably.
I don't want to end the friendship, it means the world to me. And, in fairness, I still get a lot back from it.

Is there any third option I could try? I really don't know what to do any more...

Emotions aside. Do you need to be with someone who is incapable of fidelity? I'm not talking about friendship, you can have a great many friends, it's not cheating. But this man has a supposed committed relationship with his wife which he seems unable to honor and then he wants to drop your friendship when he finds something better and closer to home. A little clear thinking is needed here. Put hormones, need, and other simulacrums of love aside and ask yourself where you want to be in the future, in a real, committed relationship with someone who cares about you, about whom you care, or waiting for the scraps of a jerk.

It sounds like he enjoys the friendship, but isn't interested (at least not anymore) in it being a relationship past just being friends. If you're ok with just being friends, I don't see why you can't keep being friends. As long as you're not stringing yourself along in hopes that you're not REALLY just friends. It sounds like the friendship is therepudic and perhaps even mutually beneficial. Great. Just don't make yourself the "other woman" when he doesn't even want that.

Oh, and listen to his advice... it sounds like maybe you listen to everything else, except the one thing you don't want to hear. "I'm not your boyfriend." Sure, he's a cheater, but he apparently doesn't want to cheat with you anymore. He's probably more of the one-night-stand kind of cheater. (Or one-week or whatever.)

You should've listened to Dr. Phil I think it was last week. Some guy was talking about wanting to marry his "other woman" in addition to his wife. For some reason, his wife wasn't ok with that, even though he and the "other woman" were. I don't usually listen to Dr. Phil, but he really went off on them.

He says he is. He's just also interested in that woman. One of my problems is that I'm not yet ready to be just friends. I may be at some later stage, I hope.

Cabra-
let me get this situation straight...

you are in a friendship with a man whom is married that you used to be in a romantic relationship with, whom found a new "friend" and you are upset because you are being replaced with this new friend and not really all that upset that you are the second woman (so to speak) in his life, you don't like the way things are but you don't feel that you deserve more, and you aren't going to get yourself out of this situation because you don't believe that you really deserve any better and it doesn't matter that he is a liar and a cheat because you love him and yet it's okay with you that he doesn't love you?

Cabra-
let me get this situation straight...

you are in a friendship with a man whom is married that you are in a romantic relationship with, whom found a new "friend" and you are upset because you fear you are being replaced with this new friend and not really all that upset that you are the second woman (so to speak) in his life,

Almost correct so far, I corrected in bold. From here on it gets a bit wrong, though.


you don't like the way things are but you don't feel that you deserve more, and you aren't going to get yourself out of this situation because you don't believe that you really deserve any better and it doesn't matter that he is a liar and a cheat because you love him and yet it's okay with you that he doesn't love you?

I don't feel I don't deserve more. I'm pretty sure I do. I just don't want more. And yes, it's ok that he doesn't love me.

I don't feel I don't deserve more. I'm pretty sure I do. I just don't want more. And yes, it's ok that he doesn't love me.
it doesn't seem okay with you if he doesn't love you, you love him (or have said at least that you have feelings for him) but you don't want to be "replaced" if he has no feelings for you then how exactly are you being "replaced" if you had no standing to begin with. It seems like a very uneven relationship, he is getting everything he wants, and you are left with nothing, that can't make you happy.

it doesn't seem okay with you if he doesn't love you, you love him (or have said at least that you have feelings for him) but you don't want to be "replaced" if he has no feelings for you then how exactly are you being "replaced" if you had no standing to begin with. It seems like a very uneven relationship, he is getting everything he wants, and you are left with nothing, that can't make you happy.

I said he doesn't love me, not he has no feelings for me.
It is slightly uneven, he is getting all he wants, and I get all I want minus one thing.

lets get out of the moral judgements of this. its not productive.

you have a "no strings" relationship with this man. you both know that its not permanent. its for as long as it works for both of you. it is what it is.

the great part of this kind of relationship is that you dont have to put up with each others crap. you only see each other when you want to. you never have to deal with his bad breath. you arent bound to each others bad habits. no worry about whether or not you should have seperate or joint bank accounts. none of it. only the good parts when you want them.

these relationships work for you or they dont. when they dont, you move on. you dont bind yourself to a no strings relationship. if this new woman is a deal breaker, you have to be strong enough to say so. if he chooses her over you, you know that you werent important enough to him to keep. then you have your answer eh?

if its not good for you, its not good. that is the bottom line in this kind of relationship. it makes no sense to stay when its not working for you.

I said he doesn't love me, not he has no feelings for me.
It is slightly uneven, he is getting all he wants, and I get all I want minus one thing.
k. I guess we are not going to agree here. I hope things work out for you, I don't see this relationship ending any way but badly for you, but I will hope otherwise.

lets get out of the moral judgements of this. its not productive.

you have a "no strings" relationship with this man. you both know that its not permanent. its for as long as it works for both of you. it is what it is.

the great part of this kind of relationship is that you dont have to put up with each others crap. you only see each other when you want to. you never have to deal with his bad breath. you arent bound to each others bad habits. no worry about whether or not you should have seperate or joint bank accounts. none of it. only the good parts when you want them.

these relationships work for you or they dont. when they dont, you move on. you dont bind yourself to a no strings relationship. if this new woman is a deal breaker, you have to be strong enough to say so. if he chooses her over you, you know that you werent important enough to him to keep. then you have your answer eh?

if its not good for you, its not good. that is the bottom line in this kind of relationship. it makes no sense to stay when its not working for you.

Yes... I think it's still good for me, despite it all.

Yes... I think it's still good for me, despite it all.
like i said before, youll know that soon enough. you have to be strong in any relationship or you just get walked on. you have to stand up for your bottom line needs and if they arent met, you need to let him know and be willing to end it if he cant meet them.

it might just take time to know if you can accept his new relationship or if you need to take a stand.

k. I guess we are not going to agree here. I hope things work out for you, I don't see this relationship ending any way but badly for you, but I will hope otherwise.

At least you can then tell me you told me so ;)

You know what you should do (break it off with him) now do it!


And if you aren't stong enough to break up with him, then you know who you'll have to blame for your continued heartache.

But you already know all of this.

Really, I think the title of the thread says it all. What do you want us to say, Cabra? You should do it, you don't want to - are we supposed to help you get it together to do it, or dissuade you from thinking you ought to?

Really, I think the title of the thread says it all. What do you want us to say, Cabra? You should do it, you don't want to - are we supposed to help you get it together to do it, or dissuade you from thinking you ought to?

Good question... I think what I needed was to sort my own thoughts and feelings out, to figure out which way to go.

first of all, :fluffle:


second, get out of this relationship. He is abusive. Heavily. Not in the physical sense, but in the emotional sense. He has his wife, you, and another woman. He is playing all of them against eachother trying to get a benefit for himself. Although he helps you, it does not seem like he does it for you, but instead for himself. He is abandoning his wife. He is playing games. He is disrespecting all of you horribly. You deserve to be respected. And I know you hate being told you deserve something, but guess what? It is true. You deserve respect. You deserve to be treated like a decent human being. This man does not, nor will he ever, understand that or honor it.

At least you can then tell me you told me so ;)
I would never do that. ;) (not to a friend at least)

wish i had some advice for you, CW... i feel i'm not in a position (or experienced enough) to give you anything more than a fluffle and a cuddle :fluffle: :fluffle:

this must be very difficult for you :(
but pay attention to all these other people... they probably know what they're talking about :P

wish i had some advice for you, CW... i feel i'm not in a position (or experienced enough) to give you anything more than a fluffle and a cuddle :fluffle: :fluffle:

this must be very difficult for you :(
but pay attention to all these other people... they probably know what they're talking about :P

Hey, a fluffle and a cuddle helps a lot, too. :fluffle: :fluffle:

From a completely rational (and normal) perspective, they are right. My problem is, I'm not what you might call normal in that respect. And in a way, I'd be cutting my lifeline... a promise is a promise.

Hey, a fluffle and a cuddle helps a lot, too. :fluffle: :fluffle:

From a completely rational (and normal) perspective, they are right. My problem is, I'm not what you might call normal in that respect. And in a way, I'd be cutting my lifeline... a promise is a promise.
reminds me of a friends quote..."Make love, not sense"...Advice tends to be rational. Implementing advice tends to be anything but.

You know what is right for you. You are smart and capable. Do what you need to do to make the most of your life.

I'll be blunt, because I'm never not blunt.

He doesn't care enough about his own wife to respect her. He treats her like trash. She got with the other other woman, so he's treating you like trash. Chances are the other other woman will also be treated like trash.

He is someone that will never get things straight since he can't commit to one.

Cut off all contact, it's for the better, you don't deserve to do this to yourself.

I'll be blunt, because I'm never not blunt.

He doesn't care enough about his own wife to respect her. He treats her like trash. She got with the other other woman, so he's treating you like trash. Chances are the other other woman will also be treated like trash.

He is someone that will never get things straight since he can't commit to one.

Cut off all contact, it's for the better, you don't deserve to do this to yourself.

Why is everybody always going on about commitment? I couldn't care less about that, honestly. He had other girlfriends before me, I always knew he was going to have others besides me. It's just the fact that I fear being replaced, that's all.

reminds me of a friends quote..."Make love, not sense"...Advice tends to be rational. Implementing advice tends to be anything but.

You know what is right for you. You are smart and capable. Do what you need to do to make the most of your life.

Thank you. :fluffle: