NationStates Jolt Archive

U.S. charges pair as China spies
Taiwanese, French citizens indicted in military equipment scheme

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Taiwanese citizen has been indicted as an agent of the People's Republic of China in a lengthy indictment returned by a federal grand jury in Florida, federal officials announced in Washington Friday.

The man, identified as Ko-Suen Moo of Taipei, is charged with being a covert Chinese agent, and working with a Frenchman to try to ship sophisticated high-tech military equipment from the United States to China.

Moo and Serge Voros of Paris have been indicted in Miami, Florida with attempting to export an F-16 aircraft engine, Black Hawk helicopter engines, cruise missiles, and air-to-air missiles to China, according to a statement released by Immigration and Customs Enforcement authorities.

Moo is in federal custody in Florida. Voros remains at large.

Moo also faces bribery, money laundering and obstruction of justice charges in the schemes alleged in a nine-count indictment.

The indictment says Moo and Voros had been negotiating to deliver the equipment to China for two years. During one of at least two trips from Taiwan to the United States, Moo allegedly transferred $140,000 to pay for the delivery of the fighter aircraft engine to an airstrip on the Chinese mainland.

"This case raises particular concerns given some of the items to be exported," said Jesus Torres of ICE.

Officials of the Department of Homeland Security and the Defense Department said the investigation was conducted jointly by ICE and the Defense Criminal Investigative Service.

If convicted on all counts the defendants could be sentenced to a total of more than 40 years in prison.



ok well maybe not steal.....

With all the security measures this country has been taking, how in the hell did these two douches think they would get away with such a thing. I know the other guy is still on the loose, but he probably wont get really far.

Jackasses :rolleyes:

A Taiwanese and a Frenchman working as Chinese spies?

WTF?

A Taiwanese working as a Chinese spy?

WTF?


thought it was really strange too, hence the thread.

Stuff happens.

Wouldn't it have been easier for china to barter with pakistan, or one of the other multitudes of F-16 users, to try and get a good look at the engine? Unless these are prototypes or such.

Edit: Just as a sidenote, the French are cracking me up in the asian market. They have sold Mirage 2000's to India and Taiwan, and there is a possibility to export either 2000's or Rafale's to china. Would be funny as hell to see Taiwanese 2000-9's going up against Chinese Rafale's. They are raking money in from asian conflicts, its beautiful.

I think they're probably doing this for their own personal interest. I believe they're they're trying to sell American techology to the Chinese gov't and make money out of that. I don't really think they're spies for the PRC. A Taiwanese and a Frenchmen, WTF?

Btw, what a jackass they are.

Couldn't they just buy it from the US, i mean even if they didn't want to have an import dependence on the US for the engines, the Chinese could just reverse engineer the technology from a few if they brought some right?...

China already has Blackhawks and alot of that technology.
This doesn't make much sense.

I'm a bit surprised. It's not like F-16s & Blackhawks are cutting edge technology.

I'm a bit surprised. It's not like F-16s & Blackhawks are cutting edge technology.
Yeah I was about to say isn't the F-16 kind of old now to be trying to steal its secrets?

ok well maybe not steal.....

With all the security measures this country has been taking, how in the hell did these two douches think they would get away with such a thing. I know the other guy is still on the loose, but he probably wont get really far.

Jackasses :rolleyes:
Did you make that up, I think you did...

Did you make that up, I think you did...


link to article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/09/china.spy.indictment/

Yeah I was about to say isn't the F-16 kind of old now to be trying to steal its secrets?


Maybe they figured since it was old technology, no one would notice or pay attention.

link to article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/09/china.spy.indictment/
Fair enough, but even still it is a little strange

Maybe they figured since it was old technology, no one would notice or pay attention.
Valid point, and any boost to a nations technology no matter how little is a plus.

Valid point, and any boost to a nations technology no matter how little is a plus.


The F-16 and Black Hawk may be old, but they can still kick some serious ass.

Not all F-16's use the same engine. They were probably talking about this:

BLOCK 60 UPGRADE

The Block 60 F-16E/F, which is being developed for the United Arab Emirates, features extra payload and range, in part due to the new F110-132 engine being developed by General Electric, which produces 145kN of thrust.

F-16 engines are different depending on the Block. They might have one block's(or group of block's for that matter) engines, but not anothers.

Fair enough, but even still it is a little strange


that's why i post it. because who the hell wants to read normal news?

Yeah, there are import restrictions (understandably, perhaps), which meant that the Chinese had to use Russian engines (just as strong, just heavier) in the J-10 fighter.
Getting their hands on a new US engine would have helped their research along quite nicely.

As for the nationality - that's the spy business for you. They (ie foreign intelligence services) also have American spies. Important ones.

Like this dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Philip_Hanssen

I personally like the German attempts at espionage on US soil in WWI and WWII. Those always ended comically.

The Soviet spies in England...what were they called...I almost made a movie on them....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Five

Great material.

This is the spying game. No rules - just results. :)

I personally like the Nazi attempts at espionage on US soil in WWI and WWII. Those always ended comically.

The Soviet spies in England...what were they called...I almost made a movie on them....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Five

Great material.

Psst... The Nazi party was created after WWI, which ended in 1918.
I just thought you might want to know that, since the Nazis couldn't do anything when they didn't exist.

Psst... The Nazi party was created after WWI, which ended in 1918.
I just thought you might want to know that, since the Nazis couldn't do anything when they didn't exist.
Psst...that's what they want you to think....

Psst...that's what they want you to think....

Lol, conspiracy theories abound eh?

Anyway, I find it odd that people missed that China already has Blackhawk helicopters. So why they're stealing the engine for them makes not alot of sense. Unless they're just looking for spare parts.

Heard about this, they were trying too steal plans/technology from the B-2 stealth bomber. :rolleyes:

Heard about this, they were trying too steal plans/technology from the B-2 stealth bomber. :rolleyes:
What are you rolling your eyes for? Isn't that what spies are for?

What are you rolling your eyes for? Isn't that what spies are for?
I was rolling my eyes because, even though it's what spying's about, you don't try and steal classified info off a nation that:A: is suspcicous your country and B: are at war so security and intelligence services are at a high state of alert to anything suspect.

China already has access to F-16s and pretty much anything that US gives to Pakistan.

I was rolling my eyes because, even though it's what spying's about, you don't try and steal classified info off a nation that:A: is suspcicous your country and B: are at war so security and intelligence services are at a high state of alert to anything suspect.

You do when the guy you bribed is out of power and his wife doesn't look like a promising prospect to replace him. Besides, this is only one attempt that got busted. With between 3000 and 6000 chineese front compaines still out there what are the chances of their only attempt failing. I'd be willing to bet that for every useful idiot caught there are 10 more that pull it off.