NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/10/iraq.intelligence/index.html

In an article published on Friday in the journal Foreign Affairs, Paul R. Pillar, the CIA's national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005, called the relationship between U.S. intelligence and policymaking "broken."

"In the wake of the Iraq war, it has become clear that official intelligence analysis was not relied on in making even the most significant national security decisions, that intelligence was misused publicly to justify decisions already made," Pillar wrote.

So, I guess we can all agree that a concerted effort is going to be made soon to attack Mr Pillar's credibility? I'm sure "liberal" is going to be thrown at him, true or not. Maybe it will be found that his wife had a tupper-ware party with George Tenet's wife, and she suggested his name then...so he couldn't have possibly deserved his former position.

Oh yeah...he's ex CIA...so he's only saying this to get back at the Bush administration...yeah, that's it.

Oh, and I'm sure "But Clinton!" will appear soon or later. Maybe even a "but Washington!"

I'm sorry. You have said something in total contravention of offical party dogma.


The party will now destroy you.


In the meantime, it's faithfull will simply assume that you were a pinko commie liberal mole the whole time, and that you have an agenda, and will ignore your statements untill official notification is given as to why they get to dismiss you.



Facts are irrelevant. Partisanship is all that matters.

Agreed.

Colin Powell, Robin Cook, Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neill would all like to welcome Mr. Pillar to the club of former insiders who have resigned and broken ranks in disgust with the neoconservative pimps who are running the whitehouse.

intelligence has been broken for a really long time.

its sorta like "intelligent design" the administration (and not just THIS administration) decides what they want the result to be, then they only believe the intelligence that support that conclusion.

how can they ever get it right when they do things this way?

intelligence has been broken for a really long time.

its sorta like "intelligent design" the administration (and not just THIS administration) decides what they want the result to be, then they only believe the intelligence that support that conclusion.

how can they ever get it right when they do things this way?

They only worry about winning elections. And they do that because their supporterts think in the same manner.

They only worry about winning elections. And they do that because their supporterts think in the same manner.
Abso-f*cking-lutely.
*nods*

They only worry about winning elections. And they do that because their supporterts think in the same manner.
yeah
and this POLITICS costs us the lives of 2500 servicemen and women, with thousands more to come as they estimate we will have to be in iraq for a minimum of 10 more years

and it costs us hundreds of billions of dollars that we now have to cut from medicaid and education and who knows what else even though we have a record high budget and deficit.

and now perhaps this same tainted intelligence is going to get us into an unwinnable war in iran.

yeah
and this POLITICS costs us the lives of 2500 servicemen and women, with thousands more to come as they estimate we will have to be in iraq for a minimum of 10 more years

and it costs us hundreds of billions of dollars that we now have to cut from medicaid and education and who knows what else even though we have a record high budget and deficit.

and now perhaps this same tainted intelligence is going to get us into an unwinnable war in iran.

How many roads must a man walk down
Before you call him a man?
Yes, 'n' how many seas must a white dove sail
Before she sleeps in the sand?
Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannon balls fly
Before they're forever banned?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

How many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, 'n' how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, 'n' how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

How many years can a mountain exist
Before it's washed to the sea?
Yes, 'n' how many years can some people exist
Before they're allowed to be free?
Yes, 'n' how many times can a man turn his head,
Pretending he just doesn't see?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,
The answer is blowin' in the wind.

And again the crickets chirp from the right side of the aisle.

<snip>The answer is blowin' in the wind.
hey, im listening to that right now! ...weiiird :eek:

And again the crickets chirp from the right side of the aisle.


<republicans advocate>But all administrations do it so I don't see any reason to even complain about it, plus Saddam was a bastard so we HAD to get rid of him. WMDs or not. Ties to AQ or not. What do you love Saddam? You love saddam dont you? you bastards :mad: </republicans advocate>

hey, im listening to that right now! ...weiiird :eek:


<CIA>i know :eek: </CIA>

<republicans advocate>But all administrations do it so I don't see any reason to even complain about it, plus Saddam was a bastard so we HAD to get rid of him. WMDs or not. Ties to AQ or not. What do you love Saddam? You love saddam dont you? you bastards :mad: </republicans advocate>
yeah lol, even though we helped put him in power.

yeah lol, even though we helped put him in power.


<republicans advocate>so we need to clean up our mess. now lets go bomb the rest of the world where uS policy has caused damage (i.e. pretty much every 3rd world country where strife exists) </republicans advocate>

It seems republicans are being caught out more and more often with the inconvenience of the facts. What's worse, their opponents seemed to have wised up a bit and are no longer allowing the right to control the terms of the debate. (Case in point, the defense of "He's not the first" is increasingly being shot down by "And perhaps that was wrong then too, but we know about this one..")

The new tactic seems to be simply to pretend the inconvenient fact hasn't been brought to light, and thereby allow it to sink into obscurity.

You mean to say there are former members of the CIA who haven't turned up drowned in Chesapeake Bay?

Wow.

And again the crickets chirp from the right side of the aisle.
Nary a peep from good ol' Deep Kimchi or Man In Black or Greenlander. Sad state of affairs, them. :(

Nary a peep from good ol' Deep Kimchi or Man In Black or Greenlander. Sad state of affairs, them. :(

Man in Black's actually made a couple of quite liberal comments recently, it's quite worrying.:eek:

Perhaps we ought to just remove all foreign support, stay in our borders, kick out the UN, and let the rest of the world screw itself over when we stop allowing them to piggyback off of us.

I'm not particularly busy at the moment? Do you want me to start ranting and foaming at the mouth and call you all 'Liberal pinko hippes' for a bit? I could also question your patriotism and the love for your country.

Perhaps we ought to just remove all foreign support, stay in our borders, kick out the UN, and let the rest of the world screw itself over when we stop allowing them to piggyback off of us.
If by piggybacking you mean trade, then I'd suggest that stopping it would hurt the US more than it would hurt the rest of the world.
If by piggybacking you mean something to do with politics, I'd be interested to hear what you mean.

Bush Admin monkied with the intel reading the headline my first thought was: "and what about AMD?"intelligence has been broken for a really long time.agreed, the CIA has shown its complete incompetence often enough. just remember the pakistani nuclear tests from 1998, sparking a new nuclearweaponsrace with india, the US were taken completely by surprise, because the CIA had had no idea or remember all the terrorattacks since 1983, the CIA has been utterly incompetent and all that while the agency supposedly has the best and most sophisticated equipment in the world: ability to intercept all electronic communication, U2-planes, spysattelites etc.official intelligence analysis was not relied on in making even the most significant national security decisionsthat is the very idea of politics: that decisions are political. it is not important, what objectively the best course of action would be, because if you could base everything on calculations and analyses, we would not need elections, we would have a panel of studied experts or maybe even a computer, that would make all decisions based on the hard facts and keep personal preference outside of the decisionmakingprocess.

i think deep kimchi is on his european vacation. isnt he?

i dont know that its that the CIA is imcompetent so much as it is being used as a political tool

for example, we really knew that there were no wmd in iraq. we had weapons inspectors that actually did their job. when it was done. the CIA made claims of additional (non-existant) weapons that had to be found. when those weapons were show to be non-existant, they insisted that there were yet MORE to be found.

plus easily disproven fictions like the iraqis trying to assassinate former president bush and the POW status of scott speicher.

they know the truth, they are participating in a poliical agenda that involves deceiving the american (and world) public.

Man in Black's actually made a couple of quite liberal comments recently, it's quite worrying.:eek:
ZOIKS!
Now i've gotta see the Forum Archives ... unless, you or someone else here happened to have copied them ... ;)

I'm not particularly busy at the moment? Do you want me to start ranting and foaming at the mouth and call you all 'Liberal pinko hippes' for a bit? I could also question your patriotism and the love for your country.
Sure! You just need to include a few non sequitirs and some outrageous lapses of judgment, plus a few talking points, and you're a sure ringer!

i think deep kimchi is on his european vacation. isnt he?
That would explain it. Funny thing, my first impression upon reading that was of Chevy Chase. I needn't explain further ...
Also, DK's a coveted poster in the sense that he has a LOT of explaining to do about a few things ... first and foremost he owes Muravyets a few concise responses.

That would explain it. Funny thing, my first impression upon reading that was of Chevy Chase. I needn't explain further ...
Also, DK's a coveted poster in the sense that he has a LOT of explaining to do about a few things ... first and foremost he owes Muravyets a few concise responses.
so did i!

although i imagine kimchi as more of the crazy redneck cousin played by randy quaid rather than the bumbling nerd played by chevy chase. with a suitably hot wife, of course.

so did i!

although i imagine kimchi as more of the crazy redneck cousin played by randy quaid rather than the bumbling nerd played by chevy chase. with a suitably hot wife, of course.
*FLORT*
Hahaha!
Well, he's been notified. I've asked how his vacation was, since he started a new thread on Iran today.
Nothing yet.