NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is it that we today - in the Western world, at least - a scared to death of the thought of children being exposed to anything with sexual context?
Really, I can't help wondering... why do some of us assume that it would disturb kids to see their parents naked? Or other people, for that matter? Why do we assume that we have to protect them? From what? Is the sexual act in any way unnatural? Haven't children all over the planet and all over the centuries and millenia seen and heard their parents or other family members having sex? Keep in mind, the suburbial duplex with 3 bedrooms is a very recent invention indeed, my grandmother grew up on a farm that had one big bedroom for her entire family.

Do kids honestly mind so much? A friend of mine once told me how her 3 year old had caught her and her boyfriend in the act. The girl though it was a game and great fun and wanted to play herself, my friend spent half an hour explaining to her what that game was and why she couldn't play. Doesn't honestly sound like a very disturbed and troubled reaction to me. So, what is it? Why do we think it's important to let our kids grow up completely detached from anything sexual, only to hit the full scale with "the talk" once they reach a certain age?

Because we live in societies where it is more acceptable to see men cut each others' throats than hold each others' hands?

Because we live in societies where it is more acceptable to see men cut each others' throats than hold each others' hands?

I can't help but feeling that we're pretty fucked up indeed. :(

Teenage pregnancy. Abortion. Bad mothers, bad fathers. The USA is filled with enough uneducated, unwanted, stupid people. We don't need more.

I don't think sex is unnatural, I think it's for adults. I really do think it would damage my kids if I sat them down with a porn video. Maybe I am naive though.

Absolutely. I never really understood what exactly the basis for this negative obsession with sex ed, porn, masturbation, sexual conversation, sex between consenting minors, etc. was about. Who cares? Once you reach puberty, it's a natural part of living existence, and I fail to see how exactly it's any more 'immoral' than eating or breathing.

Teenage pregnancy. Abortion. Bad mothers, bad fathers. The USA is filled with enough uneducated, unwanted, stupid people. We don't need more.

I must be one of those stupid people, then. I fail to see the connection between this statement and the question?

Why is it that we today - in the Western world, at least - a scared to death of the thought of children being exposed to anything with sexual context?
Speak for your own particular corner of the "Western world". We're not a patch-quilt of cookie-cutter societies, after all.

I don't think sex is unnatural, I think it's for adults. I really do think it would damage my kids if I sat them down with a porn video. Maybe I am naive though.

Well, some porn is rather disturbing. And I'm not talking about deliberate confrontation... I'm just wondering why we hide in the closet before kids? If your kids saw two dogs mating in the street, would that damage them? Does it damage them to see you kiss your husband? Would it damage them if they saw either of you naked?

I've never wanted to see my folks naked. If I accidentally did see one or both of them naked it would be somewhat disturbing to me.

I think what people are avoiding is the exposure to the sexual stereotypes and bullshit everyone is all about. They don't want their kid going through their most impressionable stages while watching dudes grab girl's asses and talk about ramming them later while the girls just giggle. Naked parents? That isn't a problem but people can't draw the line between that and the corrupt attitude society has towards sex and thus deny all of it. By corruption I mean the mainstream patriarchal mentality of treating women like slutty baby ovens. In addition to this the hyper-sensitive religious fueled ferver against sex as a natural act is equally as bad. With abstinance as the only "formal" education kids get and the media full of stupid bitches like Spears flooding everything people are just plain afraid of even trying to sort through all the garbage out there in reference to sex. Teaching a normal middle ground without turning your kid into an abuser or abusee is increasingly difficult as one side tells you sex is evil and the other tells you men should just take what they can get and girls should go around presenting themselves like a selection at the deli.

Pretending it doesn't exist is much easier.

Superstition. Mostly centered around the religious but it has also infected even the critical thinking atheists.

Teenage pregnancy. Abortion. Bad mothers, bad fathers. The USA is filled with enough uneducated, unwanted, stupid people. We don't need more.
And keeping kids in the dark about sex will help this how, exactly?

Teenage pregnancy. Abortion. Bad mothers, bad fathers. The USA is filled with enough uneducated, unwanted, stupid people. We don't need more.


That has everything to do with it, there is enough people making out and having babies which end up in prison and whatnot as they suck money away from people who work hard all their lives to end up with nothing put taxes (to fund welfare programs for them). That has to do with it because people just see other people making out and then they see it and being young they are like monkeys and little kids. If the big people want it then they act it out without really finding out anything..... Else.

Because we live in societies where it is more acceptable to see men cut each others' throats than hold each others' hands?What a great, and sad, insight into our culture.

I raised my kids a bit differently than what your post ( OP ) discusses. Although it bothered my wife, I insisted that we answer every question our kids asked, regarless of the subject, including sex. We tired to answer the question as it was asked without a lot of extraneous additional information. If they asked other questions because the first one raised them in their minds, then we answered those too. And there was none of this euphemistic language either, like saying "sleep together" instead of "having sex." They all grew up to be very well-adjusted adults, so we must have done something right. :)

I've never wanted to see my folks naked. If I accidentally did see one or both of them naked it would be somewhat disturbing to me.

I grew up with seeing my parents naked in the bathroom, sometimes french kissing or even slightly fondling each other, and I was running around naked myself a lot in summer. Up until around the time I was 7 or 8. My parents marriage deteriorated, and all of a sudden nobody was naked any more. Around that time, I started to gain weight, and my father took that as opportunity to completely destroy my selfesteem and body image... and a few other things.

It didn't ever disturb me to see naked people, but after that period in my life (it lasted until I was 15 and my parents seperated), I was extremely shy about being naked myself. Up until recently, that is.

Teenage pregnancy. Abortion. Bad mothers, bad fathers. The USA is filled with enough uneducated, unwanted, stupid people. We don't need more.

....all caused by kids brought up to know nothing about sex until they're in the throes of exploratory adolescence, aren't given comprehensive education on the subject, and fall into natural primitive patterns based on rebellion against limits - deceived and bombarded with religious anti-sex implications, they react by becoming irresponsible and wild. Kids can be knowledgeable about sex, have sex, indulge in a promiscuous school culture - but they can still be responsible, if they're given the proper grounding and education. On the other hand, kids can be repressed, restricted, and lied to, and will probably end up being irresponsible and ignorant.

It's always better to combine liberty and education/responsibility - give them the freedom and the information, just make sure they use it safely - than to combine ignorance and strict limits. The former leads to a healthier, happier, freer, and more rationally based culture.

Well, some porn is rather disturbing. And I'm not talking about deliberate confrontation... I'm just wondering why we hide in the closet before kids? If your kids saw two dogs mating in the street, would that damage them? Does it damage them to see you kiss your husband? Would it damage them if they saw either of you naked?
hey, if they ask I answer. My 4 year old can explain conception, pregnancy and birth, with mostly proper terminology. I don't think it damages them when we are at the gym and I change into my swimsuit in front of them, at least I hope it doesn't. They think it's gross when my husband and I kiss, so we do it more often to annoy them. ;)

I raised my kids a bit differently than what your post ( OP ) discusses. Although it bothered my wife, I insisted that we answer every question our kids asked, regarless of the subject, including sex. We tired to answer the question as it was asked without a lot of extraneous additional information. If they asked other questions because the first one raised them in their minds, then we answered those too. And there was none of this euphemistic language either, like saying "sleep together" instead of "having sex." They all grew up to be very well-adjusted adults, so we must have done something right. :)
I agree with the using of straight forward language, I remember when I was about 6 I was afraid to sleep in the same room with my male cousins because I thought I would get pregnant.

I agree with the using of straight forward language, I remember when I was about 6 I was afraid to sleep in the same room with my male cousins because I thought I would get pregnant.

I'm sure that would make fundie parents happy - sleep in the same room, you might start sleeping in the same bed. If that happens, you might choose to suddenly, spontaneously turn gay and have sex! :eek:

hey, if they ask I answer. My 4 year old can explain conception, pregnancy and birth, with mostly proper terminology. I don't think it damages them when we are at the gym and I change into my swimsuit in front of them, at least I hope it doesn't. They think it's gross when my husband and I kiss, so we do it more often to annoy them. ;)

*lol
This isn't so much about knowledge, more about normality, and what kids will grow up to consider normal.
We played that game, too, as kids, yelling "Gross!" and making retching sounds when our parents kissed... only to realise later on how harsh things had become when they no longer did that.
My mother grew more and more shy as we grew up. For example, she never had "the talk" with me. I just found a book on my bed one day. But once she regarded us as grown up, around the time I was 16, she started encouraging us ever so slightly. I think she wanted to make sure that her own shyness wouldn't rub off on us, that we would try a few things before deciding what was best for us (unlike herself) She was always worried that any of us might end up not trying enough and settling to early into marriage, only to see it break up again like she did.

Meh, it necver bothered me and my parents, i saw lots naked people (Mainly men though-cricket club/rugby club/football club changing rooms, my dads a sports fantic-like me) and it never hurt me. I mean, i didn't suddenly become gay or anything, i don;'t see whats the big deal.

But what I do see is that many, many people balive seeing people kill each other is better thans seeing an act of love.

I'm sure that would make fundie parents happy - sleep in the same room, you might start sleeping in the same bed. If that happens, you might choose to suddenly, spontaneously turn gay and have sex! :eek:
I asked my mom "how do women get pregnant?" and she said "they have to sleep with a man"

My grandma finally explained it all to me, after 3 hours of refusing to take a nap.

I happen to enjoy both sex and violence, but rarely together. Any way, neither should be conducted by children, they should grow up honest, not all messed up like me.

*lol
This isn't so much about knowledge, more about normality, and what kids will grow up to consider normal.
sex is a normal part of marriage, that's all my kids need to know about what's normal right now. :p

I asked my mom "how do women get pregnant?" and she said "they have to sleep with a man"

My grandma finally explained it all to me, after 3 hours of refusing to take a nap.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Dammit. Sorry. I know, my default assumptions are afflicted with gender-centrism.

sex is a normal part of marriage, that's all my kids need to know about what's normal right now. :p

if they're young, you're right. kids grow up fast enough these days with all the crap in the news, not to mention what they'll hear in school tomorrow...

if they're young, you're right. kids grow up fast enough these days with all the crap in the news, not to mention what they'll hear in school tomorrow...
what they hear in school is from me (homeschool) but yeah, they are very young (2 and 4) although my 4 year old has already "ruined everything" for a few parents at church by telling other kids her age "the truth" she really wasn't going to let that "babies come from storks" thing fly at the zoo. :p

It all boils down to control, order, etc. I think sex, in particular, represents a kind of intrusion of nature into what we perceive as an orderly and controlled realm beyond the "messiness" and "barbarism" of the organic, the triumph of emotion and sensation over formality and restraint.

what they hear in school is from me (homeschool) but yeah, they are very young (2 and 4) although my 4 year old has already "ruined everything" for a few parents at church by telling other kids her age "the truth" she really wasn't going to let that "babies come from storks" thing fly at the zoo. :p
Your going to be popular!

It all boils down to control, order, etc. I think sex, in particular, represents a kind of intrusion of nature into what we perceive as an orderly and controlled realm beyond the "messiness" and "barbarism" of the organic, the triumph of emotion and sensation over formality and restraint.

Actually, that's a very good thought... I was just going to point out that the more "civilised" a culture gets, the more sex becomes a taboo of sorts..

Your going to be popular!
I am so unpopular with the crazy mom club around here it's funny. 10 year old asks me about the tampon machine in the bathroom once, her mom turned bright red, and told me to "explain" so I did, apparently she didn't want me to really explain. :rolleyes: she still ducks her head when we pass eachother.

snip what snip


Hi Smunkeeville

Interesting left leaning Christian insite you have there. I hate legalistic dogmatic Christianity. To bad more Christians couldn't as vocal and liberal as you.

Kids are so sweet that way. The world is stll new to them.

Homeschooling sex education. ;)

I am so unpopular with the crazy mom club around here it's funny. 10 year old asks me about the tampon machine in the bathroom once, her mom turned bright red, and told me to "explain" so I did, apparently she didn't want me to really explain. :rolleyes: she still ducks her head when we pass eachother.
Honestys the best policy, I don't understand why people are so hooked up about sex. Luckly arouehre it ain't so bad, people take it as part of life. Kids wander in and out of changing rooms all the time and every 7 year old knows where babies come from. (Mainly coz the teachers tells them when they ask).

But in other places I;'ve been it's not so good. i ramber one place, Bramley Pheonix RUFC when a 5 year old girl walked into our changing rooms, we all smiled at her and tried to cover up as best we could (Hey, we just played a match-we showered) but then ehr mum ran in and dragged her out and then screamed at us for 'Corrupting' her 'angel'!

Actually, that's a very good thought... I was just going to point out that the more "civilised" a culture gets, the more sex becomes a taboo of sorts..

Apart from the Romans. It took the worlds greatest civilisation to come up with the orgy. What have we done to top that?

Hi Smunkeeville

Interesting left leaning Christian insite you have there. I hate legalistic dogmatic Christianity. To bad more Christians couldn't as vocal and liberal as you.

Kids are so sweet that way. The world is stll new to them.

Homeschooling sex education. ;)
left-leaning?! liberal?! :eek:

not me!

I am the Christian Conservative Republican homeschool mom with 2 kids and an SUV!

I once read an article that in certain areas of Japan, the family all gets into a hot bath(a spa like thing) and talk about what happened during their day. It's apparently very relaxing, so I think it's all about training from the beginning.

Apart from the Romans. It took the worlds greatest civilisation to come up with the orgy. What have we done to top that?

Filmed it?

And the Romans were actually a very puritan race when it came to sex. Excesses like these can rarely be found in societies that are open about sex. Think Victorian brothels, think Geishas, think Harems....

I am so unpopular with the crazy mom club around here it's funny. 10 year old asks me about the tampon machine in the bathroom once, her mom turned bright red, and told me to "explain" so I did, apparently she didn't want me to really explain. :rolleyes: she still ducks her head when we pass eachother.

WTF? Tampons aren't even sexual. Clearly "crazy" isn't an exaggeration.

left-leaning?! liberal?! :eek:

not me!

I am the Christian Conservative Republican homeschool mom with 2 kids and an SUV!

You claim conservativism, but the things you say don't reflect it. As for christianity, most of America is christian, and that wouldn't be possible if your democrat party wasn't primarily christian.

Filmed it?

And the Romans were actually a very puritan race when it came to sex. Excess like these can rarely be found in societies that are open about sex. Think Victorian brothels, think Geishas, think Harems....

Really? Well apart from the orgies and the all male naked public baths I know little of Rome.

Though I doubt kids had much to do with that.

WTF? Tampons aren't even sexual. Clearly "crazy" isn't an exaggeration.
sure, but I went into the whole discussion about why women have periods which included "sex"



You claim conservativism, but the things you say don't reflect it. As for christianity, most of America is christian, and that wouldn't be possible if your democrat party wasn't primarily christian.
how so?

how so?

I will assume that was directed at the first sentence. You do not seem to disregard civil rights for the sake of morality. Maybe you just don't post about it. Furthermore you do not seem to advocate censorship.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but perhaps your "conservativism" is merely the result of a desire to follow the social norms of the people around you.

sure, but I went into the whole discussion about why women have periods which included "sex"

I don't think anyone is gonna ask you to babysit their kids. Which is good for you really. That and all the kids are gonna think you're the 'cool mom' who's open bout sex.

Filmed it?

And the Romans were actually a very puritan race when it came to sex. Excesses like these can rarely be found in societies that are open about sex. Think Victorian brothels, think Geishas, think Harems....

Geisha were primarily entertainers. Whether or not they had sex with their clients was up to them.

I will assume that was directed at the first sentence. You do not seem to disregard civil rights for the sake of morality. Maybe you just don't post about it. Furthermore you do not seem to advocate censorship.
true and true.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but perhaps your "conservativism" is merely the result of a desire to follow the social norms of the people around you.
I desire to live how I want to, I would hope that America woudl be a country that affords that freedom to just about everyone (excluding people like serial killers of course)

if you look at my sig. I am really closer to the middle than people assume when I say I am conservative. I really think that the government needs to leave people alone, but since that's not going to happen I would rather deal with people who want the government to leave me alone rather than people who want to get into telling me how to raise my kids, what I can or can't say, or how it's "okay" for me to feel about something. ;)

Teenage pregnancy. Abortion. Bad mothers, bad fathers. The USA is filled with enough uneducated, unwanted, stupid people. We don't need more.


It is true. Studies have shown that in the United States, impoverished and, quite frankly, idiotic members of society have a significantly greater number of children than intellectual members.

Sex is bad, it creates more children, who we have to protect from sex... It's the bottomless pit, people!

I really think that the government needs to leave people alone, but since that's not going to happen I would rather deal with people who want the government to leave me alone rather than people who want to get into telling me how to raise my kids, what I can or can't say, or how it's "okay" for me to feel about something. ;)

I'm not sure what you mean. Or are you just summarising what you've already posted? (that sentence sounds like a criticism but it isnt)

Sex is bad, it creates more children, who we have to protect from sex... It's the bottomless pit, people!
Sex doesnt create kids, pregnancy does.

I don't think anyone is gonna ask you to babysit their kids. Which is good for you really. That and all the kids are gonna think you're the 'cool mom' who's open bout sex.
yeah, I was the "cool adult" when my husband was a youth minister, I think I heard more about the sex lives of teenagers that year than I ever wanted to know, kids would bring thier friends to church "you gotta talk to her about it, I swear she won't get mad, really talk to her, she will drive you to planned parenthood I promise", it got me into a lot of trouble;)

I actually do get called to babysit, mostly though because kids who won't stay at anyone else's house want to stay with me, kids love me, I have no clue why.

I can't decide whether we're scared to death or embracing it. I mean, here you have your MTV with women in thong bikinis, and here you have a big brew-hah-hah over the Janet Jackson "nip slip." Where do we stand?! IT'S SO CONFUSING!:headbang:

I'm not sure what you mean. Or are you just summarising what you've already posted? (that sentence sounds like a criticism but it isnt)
let's just say I have "issues" with the Left around here, locally mostly, but yeah, you don't write a book called "it takes a village" if you want to leave people alone about thier kids if you catch my drift. I think I am getting too far off topic though. ;)

yeah, I was the "cool adult" when my husband was a youth minister, I think I heard more about the sex lives of teenagers that year than I ever wanted to know, kids would bring thier friends to church "you gotta talk to her about it, I swear she won't get mad, really talk to her, she will drive you to planned parenthood I promise", it got me into a lot of trouble;)

I actually do get called to babysit, mostly though because kids who won't stay at anyone else's house want to stay with me, kids love me, I have no clue why.

Sounds good. If ever I have kids you'll be the first I ask to babysit. Although that would entail a transatlantis flight.........

Sex doesnt create kids, pregnancy does.

And sex creates pregnancy. Nice to be obvious isn't it?

Geisha were primarily entertainers. Whether or not they had sex with their clients was up to them.

I know. Actually, Geishas are among the most civilised excesses any civilisation ever came up with... they could decide wether or not they would agree to have sex with a client. Therefore, the promise of possible sex was always there. It is a very, very subtle form indeed, but definitely one of the most arousing as well.

And sex creates pregnancy. Nice to be obvious isn't it?
Yes.
Yes it is

I don't think sex is unnatural, I think it's for adults. I really do think it would damage my kids if I sat them down with a porn video. Maybe I am naive though.

But, based on what you have said before, you have already begun to explain sex and what it entails to them. You aren't trying to hide the fact that they even have sex organs from them either.

A kid's first knowledge of sex (or even vision of sex) should certainly not come from a porn. But if a child sees a painting of a naked woman, or even a naked couple in an embrace, will it damage them?

Personally, I don't feel that most people in 'the Western world' are that bothered. Obviously I'm not saying its just Americans who get hung up on sex education - every society has its own notions of decency - but from over here it does seem you guys consider it more of an issue than many others. Here we at least get some sex ed at school. You don't hear many people in Britain basicially arguing that 'what kids don't know can't hurt them', at least on sex ed.
Although it is odd that we seem - like most countries - to have increasing rates of STDs despite ever increasing sex ed / STD awareness campaigns.

Myself I find it difficult to settle on a position on sex education, how kids should be 'introduced' to the idea of sex etc. Although I am against silly euphemisms like 'sleeping together', as already discussed (by others) earlier in the post.

But if a child sees a painting of a naked woman, or even a naked couple in an embrace, will it damage them?Only if it falls on them.
Or if their parents scar them for life over it.

I raised my kids a bit differently than what your post ( OP ) discusses. Although it bothered my wife, I insisted that we answer every question our kids asked, regarless of the subject, including sex. We tired to answer the question as it was asked without a lot of extraneous additional information. If they asked other questions because the first one raised them in their minds, then we answered those too. And there was none of this euphemistic language either, like saying "sleep together" instead of "having sex." They all grew up to be very well-adjusted adults, so we must have done something right. :)

My mother did the same thing. She always answered questions, and got me books when I was old enough to read them and ask more. My aunts were shocked by her openness with me, and told her more than once that I would be a sex-crazed fiend in high school. Interestingly enough, I never had sex in high school - and only kissed one guy. I've had two sexual partners - and I'm engaged to the second.

But, based on what you have said before, you have already begun to explain sex and what it entails to them. You aren't trying to hide the fact that they even have sex organs from them either.

A kid's first knowledge of sex (or even vision of sex) should certainly not come from a porn. But if a child sees a painting of a naked woman, or even a naked couple in an embrace, will it damage them?
For that matter, would it damage a kid to see a glimpse of nipple or even mons pubis on film - ? I saw lots of naked titties on Monty Python when I was under-five. Didn't mess up my head.

A kid's first knowledge of sex (or even vision of sex) should certainly not come from a porn. But if a child sees a painting of a naked woman, or even a naked couple in an embrace, will it damage them?
nope.

The USA of today has both a sexualised pop-culture and moral outrage about pre- and extramarital sex - which is could interprete as two things that are actually reactions to each other.

But what I don't understand is why the adults who rate movies give teen comedies which hint at irresponsible sexual acts but are not open about it friendlier ratings than dramas which are open about it and deal with the consequences. What kind of message do they think this is sending? :headbang:

[QUOTE=Naked parents? That isn't a problem but people can't draw the line between that and the corrupt attitude society has towards sex and thus deny all of it. By corruption I mean the mainstream patriarchal mentality of treating women like slutty baby ovens. [/QUOTE]

Here! Here! Sister! Well put!

let's just say I have "issues" with the Left around here, locally mostly, but yeah, you don't write a book called "it takes a village" if you want to leave people alone about thier kids if you catch my drift. I think I am getting too far off topic though. ;)

Well, I have a rough knowledge of the american left, but not of your local left (unsurprisingly) so I can't comment on them. As for the book (which I had never previously heard of, so will have to make assumptions on the contents thereof), I'd say that leaving families alone is fine if there are good parents (as you seem to be), but not all children have a good family and non-intervention can be very bad for them.

On topic:
If I had children, I would give them a logical unemotional viewpoint on sexual matters rather than trying to instill fears, etc. in them.

For that matter, would it damage a kid to see a glimpse of nipple or even mons pubis on film - ? I saw lots of naked titties on Monty Python when I was under-five. Didn't mess up my head.


Dobbs! Good to see you, I have been wondering where you've been. Hope all is well.

Yeah I watched a lot of Benny Hill as a kid and that show was all about sex and I... well I'm not a good example :p

Civilisation is the seperation of, and conquest, of mankinds base emotions and actions. This is evidenced by the outlawing of killing another human (redefined as murder), indeed the very concept of law itself. But, as animals, humans have basic drives. To hunt and kill for food, to protect the weak members of the family and to procreate. Sexual reproduction is the means of procreation we have evolved with, so it is a base 'desire'. This leads to 'civilised' people locking away this act as a 'dirty' or 'immoral' thing. The Romans, as a case in point, were extremly puritan in many respects. They believed, however, in excess as a form of worship, so they got drunk had had orgies. Interesting dichotomy. But, the Romans never shielded children from this aspect of life. As adulthood was reached in Rome typically about the age of thirteen to fifteen, the 'children' of this age bracket were encouraged to pursue a healthy sex life.
These days, of course, adulthood is not reached until, in the case of the Republic, eighteen and many other nations place it at twenty-one. I find that the most strange thing in all of this debate. Why is it that at the age of fifteen, or less, it is deemed acceptable to see people being shot, stabbed, beaten and blown up in a movie, when the exposing of a bare breast is restricted to over eighteens? Why is it that nearly eight years after the average male has reached puberty, he still can't buy Playboy in some states in the US? What the hell is wrong with us as a society that we can't just be responsible?
Many will argue that to expose youngsters to sex or sexual content will promote promiscious behaviour. Abstenence is the only way forward etc. What a load of bull. Abstenence was the preferred method of sex ed here for decades and we have the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe. What works better, open, honest and frank discussions? Or the 'only behind closed doors' mentality the world has adopted? I am lucky to have a mother who was open about the subject, who took it upon herself to educate myself and my siblings about sex, the dangers inheirent in todays society and the respect that should be given to a partner. I don't have kids. I'm twenty four. Of the twenty eight people in my class in my last year of Secondary school, only seven of us don't have children. Can you guess the ones whose parents relied on the State to provide sex education for their kids?

let's just say I have "issues" with the Left around here, locally mostly, but yeah, you don't write a book called "it takes a village" if you want to leave people alone about thier kids if you catch my drift. I think I am getting too far off topic though. ;)

I haven't read the book, but I often use the phrase, "It takes a village." I don't use it to suggest that anyone should be telling a parent how to raise their children, but instead to indicate my viewpoint that it takes more than one or two people to raise a well-adjusted person. The best situation, I think, is when many of the adults in the family are involved in the child's life, as are family friends and such. A child needs exposure to many different role models. I don't think just "mommy and daddy" are enough.

Only if it falls on them.

LOL

For that matter, would it damage a kid to see a glimpse of nipple or even mons pubis on film - ? I saw lots of naked titties on Monty Python when I was under-five. Didn't mess up my head.

I don't think it will damage them at all. I don't think it would be damaging to society to allow more nudity in general, although I am (probably due to society's viewpoint) a personally very modest person.

Of course, nudity can lead to funny situations with children. My parents would shower with me when I was very young, so I obviously asked the, "Why is daddy different from mommy?" question and wanted to know what the extra body part daddy had was. My mother and father explained, but I must not have fully comprehended. In the grocery store a few weeks later, the lady in line behind us was laughing over a tabloid about a man with a tail. My response? "My daddy has a tail! He calls it a penis!" My mother said the look the checkout girl gave her may have been the oddest look she ever got. But I soon learned that penis != tail. hehe

But what I don't understand is why the adults who rate movies give teen comedies which hint at irresponsible sexual acts but are not open about it friendlier ratings than dramas which are open about it and deal with the consequences. What kind of message do they think this is sending?

That's a darm good question!

Of course, nudity can lead to funny situations with children. My parents would shower with me when I was very young, so I obviously asked the, "Why is daddy different from mommy?" question and wanted to know what the extra body part daddy had was. My mother and father explained, but I must not have fully comprehended. In the grocery store a few weeks later, the lady in line behind us was laughing over a tabloid about a man with a tail. My response? "My daddy has a tail! He calls it a penis!" My mother said the look the checkout girl gave her may have been the oddest look she ever got. But I soon learned that penis != tail. hehe
Before I pulled my 4 year old out of PreK I got a call from her teacher who was very disturbed, they had been talking about men and women and she asked my kid "what's the difference between men and women?" I think she was looking for "men are taller, can grow beards, have deep voices" type of answer but my kid says "men have penises, boys do too but they are smaller, my daddy has a penis" she freaked out. She asked my daughter "how do you know daddy has a penis?" my daughter replied "how is it that you don't know? he is a man, men have penises, daddy is a man, he has a penis, are you stupid or something?"

Before I pulled my 4 year old out of PreK I got a call from her teacher who was very disturbed, they had been talking about men and women and she asked my kid "what's the difference between men and women?" I think she was looking for "men are taller, can grow beards, have deep voices" type of answer but my kid says "men have penises, boys do too but they are smaller, my daddy has a penis" she freaked out. She asked my daughter "how do you know daddy has a penis?" my daughter replied "how is it that you don't know? he is a man, men have penises, daddy is a man, he has a penis, are you stupid or something?"


Hah! That's one smart four year old. :) And good at the old put down too.

Can't fault the logic of a child though, out of the mouth of babes and all that.

Damn, I still find it funny, even after reading it three times. :D

Before I pulled my 4 year old out of PreK I got a call from her teacher who was very disturbed, they had been talking about men and women and she asked my kid "what's the difference between men and women?" I think she was looking for "men are taller, can grow beards, have deep voices" type of answer but my kid says "men have penises, boys do too but they are smaller, my daddy has a penis" she freaked out. She asked my daughter "how do you know daddy has a penis?" my daughter replied "how is it that you don't know? he is a man, men have penises, daddy is a man, he has a penis, are you stupid or something?"

Awesome! These types of things are a big part of the reason I love being around kids. The worst part is that the teacher probably made her feel like she had done something wrong by talking about it. Sounds like a school I would pull my child (if I had one) out of too.

Awesome! These types of things are a big part of the reason I love being around kids. The worst part is that the teacher probably made her feel like she had done something wrong by talking about it. Sounds like a school I would pull my child (if I had one) out of too.
yeah, the last straw was when my kid got in trouble for reading.....during reading time.

Before I pulled my 4 year old out of PreK I got a call from her teacher who was very disturbed, they had been talking about men and women and she asked my kid "what's the difference between men and women?" I think she was looking for "men are taller, can grow beards, have deep voices" type of answer but my kid says "men have penises, boys do too but they are smaller, my daddy has a penis" she freaked out. She asked my daughter "how do you know daddy has a penis?" my daughter replied "how is it that you don't know? he is a man, men have penises, daddy is a man, he has a penis, are you stupid or something?"

ROFLMAO. That is beautiful, Smunkee.

To answer the main question, I think we have a problem because we have this stereotypical view of children as pure, virtuous innocents that must be sheltered from a cold, corrupt, and irredeemable world. Conversely, once a child becomes aware and embraces elements of said corruption, he/she becomes irredeemably damaged and corrupted him/herself. Now, to be honest, I'm a lot more pure and virtuous now than I was at five, and I think most people would say the same thing: I lie less, I have a better understanding of right and wrong, and I have a greater willingness to act upon it. But people just don't associate their own experiences with the larger virtuous innocent/hellspawn dichotomy and say "Gee, that myth really does not work". Most don't even see a myth at work. So we get social policies based on protecting our children from a hint of the corrupting influence in sex rather than based on how children actually are, as well as policies that treat kids as virtual plague victims in need of quarantine if they show signs of corruption.

yeah, the last straw was when my kid got in trouble for reading.....during reading time.
how does that work?

how does that work?
same reason I got in trouble in Kindergarten for reading, because she was actually reading, not looking at the pictures, not chewing on the book, but reading, and it made the other kids "feel dumb" and it made the teacher "uncomfortable". I actually ended up getting suspended because I went into a 5 year old's rant about how maybe the other kids are dumb and how I went to school to learn and not to worry about stupid people's feelings, my kid though much more passive aggressive (she gets that from her dad) she just put the book away and later when the teacher asked her a question, she didn't answer, when the teacher asked why, she said "well, I was going to, but I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings"

same reason I got in trouble in Kindergarten for reading, because she was actually reading, not looking at the pictures, not chewing on the book, but reading, and it made the other kids "feel dumb" and it made the teacher "uncomfortable". I actually ended up getting suspended because I went into a 5 year old's rant about how maybe the other kids are dumb and how I went to school to learn and not to worry about stupid people's feelings, my kid though much more passive aggressive (she gets that from her dad) she just put the book away and later when the teacher asked her a question, she didn't answer, when the teacher asked why, she said "well, I was going to, but I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings"

smart kid:)
thats rediculos, the teacher should have left her alone.

same reason I got in trouble in Kindergarten for reading, because she was actually reading, not looking at the pictures, not chewing on the book, but reading, and it made the other kids "feel dumb" and it made the teacher "uncomfortable". I actually ended up getting suspended because I went into a 5 year old's rant about how maybe the other kids are dumb and how I went to school to learn and not to worry about stupid people's feelings, my kid though much more passive aggressive (she gets that from her dad) she just put the book away and later when the teacher asked her a question, she didn't answer, when the teacher asked why, she said "well, I was going to, but I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings"

Oh man. Sarcasm at four. :D

Oh man. Sarcasm at four. :D
can I blame Marvin from THHG? I read it to her for bedtime stories.......

same reason I got in trouble in Kindergarten for reading, because she was actually reading, not looking at the pictures, not chewing on the book, but reading, and it made the other kids "feel dumb" and it made the teacher "uncomfortable". I actually ended up getting suspended because I went into a 5 year old's rant about how maybe the other kids are dumb and how I went to school to learn and not to worry about stupid people's feelings, my kid though much more passive aggressive (she gets that from her dad) she just put the book away and later when the teacher asked her a question, she didn't answer, when the teacher asked why, she said "well, I was going to, but I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings"

Your daughter's such a smart-aleck! I like her. If you're ever in my area and need a babysitter... =)

I had a teacher once in 5th grade stop calling on me because I asked too many questions, and pointed out to her when I had learned something differently. Strangely enough, she's also the teacher who turned me in for writing mean things about a girl who was rather cruel to me in my notebook, instead of saying them out loud (and they weren't even that mean - just made fun of her last name and called her self-centered, basically), where my principal told me it is better to insult people in person so they can't prove it. Bleh.

On a slightly more related note, hehe, it was against the rules at my school to show any affection between students, no matter how innocent it may have been. I had a teacher who had to scold two classmates for holding hands during reading time, even though they were both reading and doing no more than holding hands. They were "going out," which, at the time meant, "saying they were boyfriend/girlfriend and maybe getting something more than the stock Valentine for each other in February." Bleh

Your daughter's such a smart-aleck! I like her. If you're ever in my area and need a babysitter... =)

I had a teacher once in 5th grade stop calling on me because I asked too many questions, and pointed out to her when I had learned something differently. Strangely enough, she's also the teacher who turned me in for writing mean things about a girl who was rather cruel to me in my notebook, instead of saying them out loud (and they weren't even that mean - just made fun of her last name and called her self-centered, basically), where my principal told me it is better to insult people in person so they can't prove it.
I got kicked out of geometry for trying to explain to my teacher that theorems are always true, kicked out of US History for trying to explain to the teacher that there weren't 52 states in the United States of America, kicked out of Physics for asking what was inbetween sub-atomic particles, and I once got a "in your own opinion" question wrong in English class. :headbang:

I have bad luck with the public schools here, I should have known better than to let my kid go.

can I blame Marvin from THHG? I read it to her for bedtime stories.......

I think its awesome. How long until your kid is winning all the debates on nationstates?

I've had a four-year-old try to guilt-trip me (not very well though - he kept using the same threat and then not going through with it).

I also used to teach my cousin stuff when he was younger - stuff that I hadn't learnt until much later.

My mother did the same thing. She always answered questions, and got me books when I was old enough to read them and ask more. My aunts were shocked by her openness with me, and told her more than once that I would be a sex-crazed fiend in high school. Interestingly enough, I never had sex in high school - and only kissed one guy. I've had two sexual partners - and I'm engaged to the second.
Looks like your mother raised a very wise daughter. :)

yeah, the last straw was when my kid got in trouble for reading.....during reading time.Hehe, that happened to me yesterday. I got kicked out of TAAB (basically a free block but you have a room that you stay in) for teaching people how do the math homework...yet the people that were talking got to stay.

I must be one of those stupid people, then. I fail to see the connection between this statement and the question?

Its really simple, and evident in todays society.. the more children are exposed to sex, and sexually filled content, the more likely they are to engage in sexual activity themselves in their youth. At ages by which they are unable to make informed decisions, because they cannot fully understand the implications of the acts they engage in. Kids then in turn express themselves in more sexual manners and expose themselves to more risk of sexual abuse by outside forces. Have you ever been to a sweet sixteen.. you would this this reality (in self expression) exposed.

same reason I got in trouble in Kindergarten for reading, because she was actually reading, not looking at the pictures, not chewing on the book, but reading, and it made the other kids "feel dumb" and it made the teacher "uncomfortable". I actually ended up getting suspended because I went into a 5 year old's rant about how maybe the other kids are dumb and how I went to school to learn and not to worry about stupid people's feelings, my kid though much more passive aggressive (she gets that from her dad) she just put the book away and later when the teacher asked her a question, she didn't answer, when the teacher asked why, she said "well, I was going to, but I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings"

:D I love it. shes brilliant

Its really simple, and evident in todays society.. the more children are exposed to sex, and sexually filled content, the more likely they are to engage in sexual activity themselves in their youth. At ages by which they are unable to make informed decisions, because they cannot fully understand the implications of the acts they engage in. Kids then in turn express themselves in more sexual manners and expose themselves to more risk of sexual abuse by outside forces. Have you ever been to a sweet sixteen.. you would this this reality (in self expression) exposed.

So, what you are saying is that as todays kids are in fact less exposed to normal sexual behaviour and are being protected front and back by parents who get hysteric at the first hint of anything sexual, they are more likely to engage in irresponsible sexual activities?
I think you may have a point there... and the only way of correcting that would be to go back to an open, healthy, unashamed attitude to sex.

Really, I can't help wondering... why do some of us assume that it would disturb kids to see their parents naked? Or other people, for that matter?
Sauna. Finland. Lots of naked people with kids.

Your kids great, Smunkeeville, clever witty, and sarcastic. perfect. I often think that we presume too many kids are dumb, kids are actually more clever than a lot of people baliove but we don't challange them enough. At five I could read perfectly, and I knew just about the british legal code, (Hey, my mums a barrister, if she leaves her books lying about what does she expect me to read?) Yet often I got books in class taken away from me because they where two hard. Why would i be reading them if they wehre too hard.

We have a sence in our society thats kids are the puest, lovelist most innocent things in the world and we don't want that innocentce spoiled. All I can say is-have you ever had a conversation with a 6 year old boy? They know more swearwords than i do!