NationStates Jolt Archive

Rammstein is just not metal. Metal is a bunch of guys screaming and beating the crap out of their guitars; Rammstein has style and rhythm.

Rammstein is just not metal. Metal is a bunch of guys screaming and beating the crap out of their guitars; Rammstein has style and rhythm.


From this post alone I can tell two things:

1. I still think Rammstien sucks.

2. You know nothing about metal.

From this post alone I can tell two things:

1. I still think Rammstien sucks.

2. You know nothing about metal.
You are correct, sir.

From this post alone I can tell two things:

1. I still think Rammstein sucks.

2. You know nothing about metal.

Seconded...

Rammstein is just not metal. Metal is a bunch of guys screaming and beating the crap out of their guitars; Rammstein has style and rhythm.

They also have beautiful manners & a lovely fashion sense.

I've listened to what you call "metal". It made my brain ache.

Now industrial metal, that's where it's at. Links zwo drei vier!

Rammstein is just not metal. Metal is a bunch of guys screaming and beating the crap out of their guitars; Rammstein has style and rhythm.

So what genre woudl you put Rammstein in out of those that get prizes at the grammys (no idea what the genres are there.

You my freind really need to lsiten to soem Yingwe Malmstein...

Or better yet froget all your hang ups and get into dragon force...

So what genre woudl you put Rammstein in out of those that get prizes at the grammys (no idea what the genres are there.)

No idea.

yawngie malsteam suck! so do all of these iceland newzeland bands like cardle of filth, BUNCH OF NERDS! you want death metal you listen to a real band like DEICIDE! BUT AS FOR RAMMSTEIN! RAMMSTEIN, KICK'S ASS WHILE DRINKING JAGERMISTER.. BUT THEY ARE NOT METAL. THEY ARE MORE OF IN THE CATAGORY WITH KMFDM.,AND KMFDM SUCK!!!

Industrial metal.

Case closed.

Industrial metal.

Case closed.

Rammstein actually call themselves "Tanz-Metal", so...

But Rammstein, IMO, is very different from metal, at least from the metal I've heard.

Rammstein actually call themselves "Tanz-Metal", so...

But Rammstein, IMO, is very different from metal, at least from the metal I've heard.
you either heard crappy Black Metal (note: not al Black Metal is crappy) or something like slipknot (which, though it's called "nu-metal", has nothing to do with actual Heavy Metal)

Rammstein actually call themselves "Tanz-Metal", so....
Tanz-Metal.

Handbanging isn't dancing. Not even by a stretch.

Rammstein actually call themselves "Tanz-Metal", so...

But Rammstein, IMO, is very different from metal, at least from the metal I've heard.

I'd say it's their call. They make the music after all.

I'd say it's their call. They make the music after all.
not necessarily, if I for example make a techno record with dog barks for vocals, and I call it classic baroque opera, that doesn't make it true ;)

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

shush, we're educating him.

not necessarily, if I for example make a techno record with dog barks for vocals, and I call it classic baroque opera, that doesn't make it true ;)
:p

Think of One is a really good band from Belgium I think. You like 'em?

shush, we're educating him.

some would say this is an impossible endeavor.

not necessarily, if I for example make a techno record with dog barks for vocals, and I call it classic baroque opera, that doesn't make it true ;)

Yeah ok, but under normal circumstances, it's their call.:rolleyes:

Think of One is a really good band from Belgium I think. You like 'em?
actually, I've even never heard of them :confused:

actually, I've even never heard of them :confused:
http://www.thinkofone.be/

Could be Dutch. Despite what the link says.

Who the hell put Rammstein in the Metal category at the Grammies?
Yeah, that was me. Sorry.

http://www.thinkofone.be/

Could be Dutch. Despite what the link says.
oh, doesn't seem to be my style, really :p

They Like David Bovee???

Metal is a bunch of guys screaming and beating the crap out of their guitars

Not all metal has "screaming". Actually, most doesn't.

And not all metal has guitars having the crap beaten out of them. Some doesn't even have guitars. http://www.apocalyptica.com/

See?

And who the hell made you the authority on metal in the first place?

oh, doesn't seem to be my style, really :p
I just thought I'd ask someone from there.

Every German I've talked to doesn't like Rammstein.

Its just interesting to see. :p

Hell Metal is used to describe anything, as is Pop and R'n'B and so on..the grammy's suck anyhow..oh by the way Rammstein rule!! (helps if you speak german however)

Has anybody ever heard of Seventh?

I just thought I'd ask someone from there.

Every German I've talked to doesn't like Rammstein.

Its just interesting to see. :p

i am half german and i like Rammstein;)

i am half german and i like Rammstein;)
I'm quarter German, and I like Rammstein.

I've never physically talked to you, unless you're an Afro-Deutch from Somalia and can speak six languages that I met on one of the trollies in London. :p

I'm quarter German, and I like Rammstein.

I've never physically talked to you, unless you're an Afro-Deutch from Somalia and can speak six languages that I met on one of the trollies in London. :p

I'm half and I like them.

You heard it right here! Conclusive scientific proof that to like Rammstein, you must have some German ancestry, but not too much.

I'm quarter German, and I like Rammstein.

I've never physically talked to you, unless you're an Afro-Deutch from Somalia and can speak six languages that I met on one of the trollies in London. :p

Bavarian-Filopino to be precise (somalian! uhrggg) and i can speak 4 languages ;) as for the trollies its possible

Rammstein isn't too bad, not my favorite either.

If you want to listen to some good metal though I recommend Death. Now there's a band who knew how to play.

Rammstein isn't too bad, not my favorite either.

If you want to listen to some good metal though I recommend Death. Now there's a band who knew how to play.

Now there was a metal band! :)

Never heard of them!

Yeah, that was me. Sorry.

Do you choose all the categories, or only metal? Because I have some real issues with the alleged "best music" that is selected across all of the genres.

You heard it right here! Conclusive scientific proof that to like Rammstein, you must have some German ancestry, but not too much.
That's the trend in my unscientific polling. :p

Bavarian-Filopino to be precise (somalian! uhrggg) and i can speak 4 languages as for the trollies its possible
Maybe. It could have been in one of the art museums. In Paddington station. On the walk by the Tims. In that one bar, or maybe the other one. I was only in London for a couple days, and man, is that hot in the summer. No cooling, anywhere! I fled in a diaspora to Scotland, mate.

out of interest, who else was nominated for the metal category?

That's the trend in my unscientific polling. :p


Maybe. It could have been in one of the art museums. In Paddington station. On the walk by the Tims. In that one bar, or maybe the other one. I was only in London for a couple days, and man, is that hot in the summer. No cooling, anywhere! I fled in a diaspora to Scotland, mate.

Yeah london can be uncomfortable in the summer, i tend to run away to spain or portugal myself during that time of year were its less humid but hotter!

out of interest, who else was nominated for the metal category?

Slipknot, and some other guys we haven't heard of.

Slipknot, and some other guys we haven't heard of.
oh jesus Slipknot suck, together with Linkin Park..all corporate suckers, what was it Bill Hicks said about corporate rock? all 'sucking satans cock'...

Do you choose all the categories, or only metal? Because I have some real issues with the alleged "best music" that is selected across all of the genres.
Actually, I got some beef with Mr. I V Stalin as well.

I have to ask, why is rap music? Its like 3rd grade poems put to a lethargic electronic beat.
Since you are quoting this, you either are agreeing with me, or are about to say what a stupid ignorant idiot I am. I suggest you do neither.

I have to ask, why is rap music? Its like 3rd grade poems put to a lethargic electronic beat.

Some - uh, most - of it, yeah. But there is rap that carries a message or just plain sounds good. That's what music should be about, right?

Try Public Enemy, N.W.A, Cypress Hill (who also have some metal-ish songs...), Corporate Avenger, Deltron 3030...


Since you are quoting this, you either are agreeing with me, or are about to say what a stupid ignorant idiot I am. I suggest you do neither.

Eh, i've never been one to follow suggestions.

Some - uh, most - of it, yeah.
That was my meaning. ;)

Icelandic, Swedish, French, and Spanish rap, while cheesy, often make me giggle with amusement.

That was my meaning. ;)

Icelandic, Swedish, French, and Spanish rap, while cheesy, often make me giggle with amusement.

Theres plenty of good spanish rap out there but the ones that really crack me up is German and Polish rap, oh my god!!

Theres plenty of good spanish rap out there but the ones that really crack me up is German and Polish rap, oh my god!!
Drop names of Poloc rappers, please.

Icelandic rap

Hey, Quarashi is good! :p

Drop names of Poloc rappers, please.

I will have to ask my polish colleagues at work but i have seen a number of them on MTV Polska, i can name drop some really awful germans ones if you want instead

Drop names of Poloc rappers, please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_hip_hop

Wikipedia = your friend. :p

Wikipedia = your friend. :p
Who needs a social life with Wiki?!

[/COLOR]Actually, I got some beef with Mr. I V Stalin as well.

I have to ask, why is rap music? Its like 3rd grade poems put to a lethargic electronic beat.
Since you are quoting this, you either are agreeing with me, or are about to say what a stupid ignorant idiot I am. I suggest you do neither.

I don't have a problem with the categories, more with the "winners". (Did I dodge your bullet?)

Why don't they just call them Most Popular, instead of Best. I hardly think the best music/musicians win these awards.

Who needs a social life with Wiki?!

Hehehehe. :p

Why don't they just call them Most Popular, instead of Best. I hardly think the best music/musicians win these awards.

I am of the firm belief that the Grammies stopped using artistic ability as a means to determine the winners sometime around 1973. Ever since then, total album sales has been the first, last, and only criteria necessary.

As for Rammstein...I LOVE 'em. First heard them on the Mortal Kombat: Annihilation soundtrack, and I now own all four albums. I like that, unlike most bands, they have managed to make each album sound different without drastically changing their initial musical style.

(Did I dodge your bullet?)
I was using slugs and not shot. My bad. :p Yes.
Why don't they just call them Most Popular, instead of Best. I hardly think the best music/musicians win these awards.
Well, there's always that question here in my mind as well, such as in threads:

"Best Country", "Best Battle", "Best City", and "Best Beer".

"Best" is becoming a synonym for "popular" just like "Facist" is becoming a metaphor for anything slightly inconvient. Just like there cannot be a best canidate in political elections. There's only a better one, and after them there will always be someone better.

I was using slugs and not shot. My bad. :p Yes.

Well, there's always that question here in my mind as well, such as in threads:

"Best Country", "Best Battle", "Best City", and "Best Beer".

"Best" is becoming a synonym for "popular" just like "Facist" is becoming a metaphor for anything slightly inconvient. Just like there cannot be a best canidate in political elections. There's only a better one, and after them there will always be someone better.

The only argument I have there is semantic. "Best" isn't becoming synonymous with "most popular", it has long been so.

The only argument I have there is semantic. "Best" isn't becoming synonymous with "most popular", it has long be so.
Classic music is the only exception to this rule.

Classic music is the only exception to this rule.

Eh, how would you know, though? There were probably plenty of brilliant composers that never got the patronage they deserved and their works are lost to the ages.

As for Rammstein...I LOVE 'em. First heard them on the Mortal Kombat: Annihilation soundtrack, and I now own all four albums. I like that, unlike most bands, they have managed to make each album sound different without drastically changing their initial musical style.
Rammstein rock, they are unique and have tongue in cheek humour so typical of germany that the rest of the world just does not knows exists...

Eh, how would you know, though? There were probably plenty of brilliant composers that never got the patronage they deserved and their works are lost to the ages.
According to Plato, they would be the best.
Are we talking seriously? I wasn't.

According to Plato, they would be the best.
Are we talking seriously? I wasn't.

*shrugs*

Meh. Too bad if we weren't. :p

Rammstein rock, they are unique and have tongue in cheek humour so typical of germany that the rest of the world just does not knows exists...
We have typical tongue-in-cheek humour? :eek:

We have typical tongue-in-cheek humour? :eek:

Yep, well some do....maybe not in bayern

Unfortunately, Grammy voters are not cultured enough to understand the distinctions between death metal, black metal, industrial metal, goth metal, etc. etc., and all metal bands are lumped together. It is an unfortunate consequence.

Unfortunately, Grammy voters are not cultured enough to understand the distinctions between death metal, black metal, industrial metal, goth metal, etc. etc., and all metal bands are lumped together. It is an unfortunate consequence.
Its probably something to do with the word "metal."

They should get more creative, and call it, "Loshglosh!" or "Freudenshötten!" That way, when there's a catergory called, "Nya Kaupunki Vaqueros," I can vote assured that I know exactly what I'm voting for.

Why!? Why even bother!? If you know nothing of metal why would even bother giving awards for it? You'll only suceed in stealing recognition from those who deserve it! Damn you Stalin! Damn you!

i think the Grammys just generally get it wrong...

Who votes for them? I don't think I've ever agreed with a Best Album award. Has U2 even put any songs on the radio?

By all means, if there's good music on that CD, let's hear it on the radio.

They should have won for Joshua Tree and/or Rattle and Hum... both great LPs.

Of course to get your songs on american radio, your record company has to pay the radio stations a very large backhander...

The alst U2 album was OK but i'm not much of a U2 fan so can't comapre it to apst stuff. it didi get quite abit of radio play here in the UK though.

Rammstein is just not metal. Metal is a bunch of guys screaming and beating the crap out of their guitars; Rammstein has style and rhythm.
By style and rythym, do you mean overindulgent and talentless shit? If so, you are 100% correct, sir.




Look, TOOL won a grammy for best metal a few years ago. I personally wouldn't naturally place them as metal, but when you look at the categories available at the grammys, there's nowhere else to put them.

By style and rythym, do you mean overindulgent and talentless shit? If so, you are 100% correct, sir.




Look, TOOL won a grammy for best metal a few years ago. I personally wouldn't naturally place them as metal, but when you look at the categories available at the grammys, there's nowhere else to put them.

Rammstein kick ass, as do Tool. Its all very well to divide music into more and more tiny niche genres but the grammys can hardly be expected to have half a dozen different categories for different kinds of metal. or not metal as the case may be.

Its better to win a prize for something your not than to not get nominated at all.

It really doesn't matter whether it's metal or not if you ask me. The good stuff is in the Classical genre if you ask me. In a few years, you'll outgrow heavy metal and realize that, I bet.

Besides, Wagner > Rammstein

Industrial metal.
Case closed.
No. Rammstein is most certainly NOT metal, nor are they "industrial metal". Red Harvest is industrial metal. People simply don't understand what metal is.

EVERYONE should go to this site:
http://metal-archives.com/

They have over 39,000 metal bands listed, and if anyone tries to submit Rammstein as a metal band I guarantee you'll get laughed at.

No. Rammstein is most certainly NOT metal, nor are they "industrial metal". Red Harvest is industrial metal. People simply don't understand what metal is.
Guess what. Today, while checking out CDs of a band called Garmarna from the library, I was looking around for their CDs where they should be, in the "Popular Music" section that covers metal, rock, pop, techno, and whatnot. But only one CD was there, and I wanted to take the whole collection home for the weekend. So, I check out the catalog. Garmarna's CDs are in "Popular Music", "Traditional", and "World".

Who is to say that Rammstein is not metal?

Who is to say that Rammstein is not metal?
Me and tens of thousands of other metal fans. If you want good German metal, check out Sodom, Destruction, Kreator, and Blind Guardian. Don't get me wrong, I like Rammstein. They're a good groovy dance band, but I hate it when people call them metal. :headbang:

Me and tens of thousands of other metal fans. If you want good German metal, check out Sodom, Destruction, Kreator, and Blind Guardian. Don't get me wrong, I like Rammstein. They're a good groovy dance band, but I hate it when people call them metal. :headbang:

Yeah Kreator is great..and talking of german bands i must confess i used to love Halloween, not the same sort of metal kreator but metal never the less.

Yeah Kreator is great..and talking of german bands i must confess i used to love Halloween, not the same sort of metal kreator but metal never the less.
I've heard of Helloween, is that the same as Halloween? Maybe I'm confused.... :confused:

I don't know much about metal, possibly thats cause I live near seattle, which gave the world both the birth and death of metal in mainstream "popular" music.

I agree that wagner kicks @ss, If only peter jackson had decided to film wagners version of der ring instead of tolkein's

I've heard of Helloween, is that the same as Halloween? Maybe I'm confused.... :confused:

Helloween;)

For fuck's sake, they nominated Jethro Tull for best metal album one year. Jethro Fucking Tull! Can you believe it?

For fuck's sake, they nominated Jethro Tull for best metal album one year. Jethro Fucking Tull! Can you believe it?
Christ there is no way that could be considered metal in anyway!! am sure we can get consus on that

Alright, I admit it. I put them in that catagory.

Alright, I admit it. I put them in that catagory.

gone on tell us why :p

To see if anyone actually dances to them. :)

Rammstein is just not metal. Metal is a bunch of guys screaming and beating the crap out of their guitars; Rammstein has style and rhythm.

1. You obviously don't have a clue what metal is.
2. You obviously have never listened to real metal.
3. You obviously have never listened to Rammstein.

I don't know much about metal, possibly thats cause I live near seattle, which gave the world both the birth and death of metal in mainstream "popular" music.

Oh really?
I suppose its debateable, but "metal" as we know it can be directly traced, to The Who.
While The Who were not a metal band, anyone who has heard "Live at Leeds", can tell you that thier cover of "Young Man Blues", is most definately metal.

The first album to really be entirely metal as we know it, would have to be Black Sabbaths first self-titled debut.
That was in 1970.
From there thier sound got progressivley heavier, and by far they were the heaviest band around at the time.

So, Black Sabbath, arent from Seattle...that distinction goes to Birmingham England.
You can call the Birmingham chamber of commerce and thank them.

I will list a long line of quotes, direct from Wiki. It explains why Rammstein is metal. Which is a bloody simple concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rammstein
Rammstein is a German industrial metal band formed in 1994. Their musical style, which they have dubbed Tanz-Metall ("Dance Metal"), incorporates elements of metal, industrial and electronic music. Their songs are performed almost exclusively in German.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Metal_music
Heavy metal, sometimes referred to as simply metal, is a form of music characterised by aggressive, driving rhythms and highly amplified distorted guitars. Its origins lie in the hard rock bands who between 1967 and 1974 took blues and rock and created a hybrid with a heavy, guitar-and-drums-centered sound. From the late 1970s on, many bands would fuse this sound with a revival of European classical music. Heavy metal had its peak popularity in the 1980s, during which many of the now existing subgenres first evolved. Although not as commercially successful as it was then, heavy metal still has a large world-wide following of fans known by terms such as metalheads, headbangers and moshers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_metal
Industrial metal is a musical genre which draws elements from industrial music and heavy metal music. Industrial metal music is usually centered around metal guitar riffs and industrial synthesizer/sequencer lines, as well as heavily-distorted vocals. This term is used quite loosely, describing everything from industrial bands sampling metal riffs to heavy metal groups augmented with sequencers. Industrial metal encompasses industrial subgenres such as aggro-industrial and coldwave (see list of industrial music subgenres) and often overlaps some elements of nu-metal and post-punk.

It is difficult to distinguish many industrial metal artists and industrial rock because both genres leave much room for ingenuity and creativity. By convention, all industrial metal artists may be more vaugely described as industrial rock as well, but not all industrial rock artists are properly described as industrial metal. This is ironic considering industrial metal emerged before industrial rock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_music
Industrial music is a loose term for a number of different styles of electronic and experimental music. First used in the mid 1970s to describe the then-unique sound of Industrial Records artists, a wide variety of artists and labels have since come to be called "Industrial". This definition may include Avant-garde performance artists such as Throbbing Gristle, Einstürzende Neubauten and Laibach; noise projects like Merzbow or Whitehouse; electronic body music/elektro acts such as Front 242, Skinny Puppy, KMFDM and Nitzer Ebb; electronic rock acts like Nine Inch Nails or Ministry; or writers J.G. Ballard and William S. Burroughs.

The term was meant by its creators to evoke the idea of music created for a new generation of people, previous music being more agricultural. Specifically, it referred to the streamlined process by which the music was being made, although many people later interpreted the word as a poetic reference to an "industrial" aesthetic, recalling factories and inhuman machinery. On this topic, Peter Christopherson of Industrial Records once remarked, "the original idea of Industrial Records was to reject what the growing industry was telling you at the time what music was supposed to be."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_music
Electronic music is a loose term for music created using electronic equipment. Any sound produced by the means of an electrical signal may reasonably be called electronic, and the term is sometimes used that way -- in music where acoustic performance is the norm, even the introduction of electronic amplifiers may touch off discussions of electronic music (jazz and folk music, for example, have gone through a good deal of argument about the topic).

As a category of criticism and marketing, however, 'electronic music' refers to music produced largely by electronic components, such as synthesizers, samplers, computers, and drum machines. Theoretically, the music could include any of an array of other "instruments". Some later electronic music may also be referred to as computer music because the use of software has allowed manipulated sounds to be processed and sequenced digitally and conveniently, in contrast to analog synthesizers that use electrical hardware to manipulate signals. Recently, a number of software synthesizers have been designed to specifically emulate the sound of vintage analog instruments. Even more recently, many audio programming languages have been created for sound synthesis.
Which leads us back to the "Tanz-Metal"....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Metal_music
Although most heavy metal fans would disagree with the term "dance," there are certain body movements that are nearly universal in the metal world, including headbanging, moshing, and various hand gestures such as devil horns. Stage diving, air guitar and crowd surfing are also practiced. With the advent of the metalcore genre, hardcore dancing, characterized by swinging of the arms, the "two-step", spinkicks and overall ninja-like nature, has been minutely annexed by listeners of both heavy metal and metalcore. In recent years, hardcore dancing has become more popular. Along with this are coalitions against hardcore dancing, usually founded by fans of less commercial genres of metal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_dancing
Hardcore dancing is a form of mosh (or slamdancing), an activity performed in a mosh pit at hardcore music shows. Generally the dancing is done to certain visceral parts of hardcore songs specially written to make the audience move around. Common names for these parts are "breakdowns", "beatdowns", and "two-steps."

Some common derogative terms for said dance are "Ninja Dancing" (named becuase the dancers look like they are fighting invisible Ninja), "Karate Dancing", and "Straight-edge Ballet".

The practice grew mostly out of the East Coast hardcore scene, especially in New York City. Besides the usual mosh pit routine of pogoing and crashing into each other, participants enjoyed floorpunching to the beat when a slower, more groovy riff was being played. During shows by bands like Gorilla Biscuits, Agnostic Front, Sheer Terror, and Killing Time, this style of dancing was common. In the following years as bands incorporated slower syncopated, metallic rhythms into their songs, the modern "breakdown" and the dancing that went with it was introduced. Sometimes called "kickbox moshing" by its detractors, hardcore dancing now included violent windmills with the arms, karate style spinkicks, and "crowdkills", the act of simply tackling a group of non dancing onlookers, sometimes into the wall. Early Earth Crisis and Biohazard shows were extremely common areas for such activity. Nowadays hardcore dancing is mostly done by fans of the extreme "toughguy" or "metalcore" versions of hardcore (see Hatebreed, Caliban, Blood for Blood, Neglect, and Death Threat.)

The two-step is also common in hardcore dancing. It is used exclusively during mid-tempo punk rock styled riffs and beats (for a good example of such a beat listen to "Pushed Too Far" by Sick Of It All, the verses to "Minor Threat" by Minor Threat, "Overcome" by Terror or "Wake the Dead" by Comeback Kid.) Much like the two step in breakdancing or country line dancing, it involves placing one foot in front of the other and hopping forward onto it, then repeated with the other foot, etc. Combined with forward thrusts by the arm opposite to the forward-stepping foot, the dance creates a sort of "running in place" illusion. The move is commonly practiced and refined to look slick or interesting. The "two step," was taken by another form of dancing known to ska music, "skanking."
This definition doesn't really put a high bar on dancing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance
Dance (from Old French dancier, perhaps from Frankish) generally refers to human movement either used as a form of expression (see also body language) or presented in a social, spiritual or performance setting.

Dance is also used to describe methods of non-verbal communication between humans or animals (bee dance, mating dance), motion in inanimate objects (the leaves danced in the wind), and certain musical forms or genres. People who dance are called dancers and the act of dance is known as dancing. An event where dancing takes place may be called a dance. Choreography is the art of making dances, and the person who does this is called a choreographer.

So, people can dance to metal. Wohoo.

[QUOTE=BackwoodsSquatches]Oh really?
I suppose its debateable, but "metal" as we know it can be directly traced, to The Who. While The Who were not a metal band, anyone who has heard "Live at Leeds", can tell you that thier cover of "Young Man Blues", is most definately metal. The first album to really be entirely metal as we know it, would have to be Black Sabbaths first self-titled debut...(snip)[QUOTE]

I think you are dead right, Birmingham, home of heavy metal:cool:

There's too many different types of one type of genre. It's weirdness.

And I don't listen to music in which the vocals are of a language I don't speak. *Goes back to listening to Hikaru Utada songs totally hipocritically*

Well, there are a lot of people, including wikipedia, that claim Frank Zappa is a classical composer (as if, those people must not have heard either Zappa or classical in any real quantity). I suppose it's not too surprising if Rammstein gets put in the wrong category by people unfamiliar with metal.