NationStates Jolt Archive

Since some of you don't know the definition of "issue".

The biggest exception on the list is the FN FAL, of which a version is manufactured currently in Brazil.

And the G3 which hasn't quite been removed entirely from circulation in the Bundeswehr and the Spanish army.

The U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, 1917 Model.

I dunno why, but that rifle has always been sexy to me.

Props to the Lee-Enfield, though. Hot!

Not that old, dammit!

Why do I even bother any more. You folk are hopeless....

Not that old, dammit!

Why do I even bother any more. You folk are hopeless....

Oh you want modern crap? Fine ... the M1A1 Carbine.

If you want 21st century ... well, too bad ... you won't top the WWII weapons for reliability and weather resistance.

Oh you want modern crap? Fine ... the M1A1 Carbine.

If you want 21st century ... well, too bad ... you won't top the WWII weapons for reliability and weather resistance.

Did you just say you'd want to take a .30-caliber M1 carbine? You're aware of how small the bullets those things shoot are, right?

How is the AK-47/AKM not also an exception to the old rule. There are more of this rifle in use in the world than any other assault rifle, and it is still in use in Russia. Seems to be as much an exception as the G3, if not more. That is if I understand your meaning.

My personnal vote is for the M1 Garand, also known as "the rifle that won the war." Even Patton considered it to be the finest military weapon of all time.

How is the AK-47/AKM not also an exception to the old rule. There are more of this rifle in use in the world than any other assault rifle, and it is still in use in Russia. Seems to be as much an exception as the G3, if not more. That is if I understand your meaning.

In Russia, the AKM is mostly used by "Spetsnaz" and other special formations, not by front-line troops. The AK-74 and (soon) the AK-74M is the most common battle rifle among Russian soldiery.

As for the AKM still being in use, yes, it is. But not with any nation that poses much of a threat to anything but their neighbors.

My personnal vote is for the M1 Garand, also known as "the rifle that won the war." Even Patton considered it to be the finest military weapon of all time.

That's only because Patton died before they rolled out the M14. :D

Did you just say you'd want to take a .30-caliber M1 carbine? You're aware of how small the bullets those things shoot are, right?

With the exception of the AK-47, I'd take an American made rifle over anything else in geurilla(sp) warfare. It ain't the size of the bullet, it's the rifle that shoots them ... and if the rifle can crawl through mud, slime, sewage, and filth yet still shoot that smaller bullet ... well I'll take it over any modern rifle that jams if you sneeze on it any day.

Oh! Let's not forget the Browning Assault Rifle (BAR).

Sweet piece of machinery there.

With the exception of the AK-47, I'd take an American made rifle over anything else in geurilla(sp) warfare. It ain't the size of the bullet, it's the rifle that shoots them ... and if the rifle can crawl through mud, slime, sewage, and filth yet still shoot that smaller bullet ... well I'll take it over any modern rifle that jams if you sneeze on it any day.

Er... I thought the M14 was just a heavily modified M1 Garand. That and I'd sooner trust my life to the M1 Garand than to the M1 Carbine.

AKM. Best rifle of that generation. Lighter, smaller, and much more suitable for automatic fire than any of the NATO rifles.

The SMLE - Lee Enfield .303 used by British & Commonwealth forces in WWI & WWII. A tough, reliable bolt action rifle with excellent accuracy, stopping power & in the hands of well trained soldiers, a very good rate of fire.

Actually all of the rifles mentioned are still in production and service...

New M14s are being produced (mainly SOPMOD varients, but most of the old stock is being being remanufactured into DMRs).
The G3 is still in service with Norway and a number of other nations, HK still produces a few each year mostly in specialist varients.
FN-FAL still serves with many armed forces, DS arms of the US still produces a wide range of varients under the SA58 name. Brazil doesn't use the basic FN-FAL but 2 local versions the Imbel MB-80 and 83 IIRC one in 7.62x51mm and one in 5.56x45mm
The AKM is still widely used by russian second line troops and some special forces (who never really took to the 5.45mm round), in addition to most of the former soviet client states.

AGAnauten.de (a funny website made for people about to start military service in Germany) says:
G3
Die Braut des Soldaten. Man(n) trifft damit auf 3 Meter Entfernung garantiert ein Scheunentor.
The bride of the soldier. Guaranteed to hit a barn door from three metres away.

G36
Das Nachfolgermodell der G3. Wurde eingeführt, da die meisten der G3's schon doppelt so alt wie die Schützen waren. Geschossen wird nun mit Erbsenpistolenkaliber und man kann ein Scheunentor schon auf 4 Meter Entfernung treffen. Ein echter Fortschritt also...
Mori Samo meint:
Neues Standardgewehr der Bundeswehr; ist schneller, besser, leichter als das G3 und wenn die Batterie leer ist, bist du gearscht.
Successor to the G3. Was introduced because most G3s were twice the age of the soldiers. Now fires in peashooter calibre and is thus guaranteed to hit a barn door from four metres. A real improvement then...
Mori Samo says:
New standard rifle of the Bundeswehr. Faster, better, lighter than the G3, and if the battery is empty, you're fucked.

The AK-47.

New M14s are being produced (mainly SOPMOD varients, but most of the old stock is being being remanufactured into DMRs).

These are actually classified as being either M21s or M24s. (I'm certain about the former, but not the latter.)

The G3 is still in service with Norway and a number of other nations, HK still produces a few each year mostly in specialist varients.

The G3 has been replaced by the G36 in the Norewegian army. If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that I pointed out that the G3 was still being used, but that it was nearly phased out.

FN-FAL still serves with many armed forces, DS arms of the US still produces a wide range of varients under the SA58 name. Brazil doesn't use the basic FN-FAL but 2 local versions the Imbel MB-80 and 83 IIRC one in 7.62x51mm and one in 5.56x45mm

Civvies versions=/=Service rifles. And I mentioned the Brazilian variant(s) as an exception.

The AKM is still widely used by russian second line troops and some special forces (who never really took to the 5.45mm round), in addition to most of the former soviet client states.

Most of the Soviet client states use licensed versions of the AK-74. (The German version, in particular, was called the MPi AK-74.) Some use the AKM, but, again, not many of those nations would be listed on a poll for the second best military on earth.

*snip*
New standard rifle of the Bundeswehr. Faster, better, lighter than the G3, and if the battery is empty, you're fucked.

Battery? As in a battery for a torch?

Battery? As in a battery for a torch?
Meh, I'm not a specialist, but I think they're just taking the piss out of the thing because it's so high-tech. I think the whole aiming mechanism runs on power though.

Meh, I'm not a specialist, but I think they're just taking the piss out of the thing because it's so high-tech. I think the whole aiming mechanism runs on power though.

Red dots require batteries. Unless you're in the field for a couple of years, though, that shouldn't be a problem. And if you don't like the integral red dot, you can always replace the scope with a railed carry handle with full-fledged irons.

Meh, I'm not a specialist, but I think they're just taking the piss out of the thing because it's so high-tech. I think the whole aiming mechanism runs on power though.

Ah, I understand now.

Since some of you don't know the definition of "issue".

The biggest exception on the list is the FN FAL, of which a version is manufactured currently in Brazil.

And the G3 which hasn't quite been removed entirely from circulation in the Bundeswehr and the Spanish army.

Actually, the Spanish Army uses the CETME, of which the G3 is a license made copy. BOOYAH! Great choices, though!
I thought you asked for 'old' rifles. Here, we are only going back to fifty years or so. I really like my Lee-Enfield No. I Mk III. Reliable, tough, fairly accurate, and, arguably, the longest used military rifle still in active service, as it is still issued to reserve units and police in the Indian army.

Actually, the Spanish Army uses the CETME, of which the G3 is a license made copy. BOOYAH! Great choices, though!
I thought you asked for 'old' rifles. Here, we are only going back to fifty years or so. I really like my Lee-Enfield No. I Mk III. Reliable, tough, fairly accurate, and, arguably, the longest used military rifle still in active service, as it is still issued to reserve units and police in the Indian army.

When I said old, I meant old. Not ancient. :p

And I was under the impression that the CETME was being phased out in favor of the G36.

These are actually classified as being either M21s or M24s. (I'm certain about the former, but not the latter.)
Nope wrong, the M-14 DMR is different to the M-21/24. While it can be hard to pin down an actual configuration the basic principle is an M-14 with an Aimpoint or ACOG sign, apparently widely used by the USMC in afghanistan, there is also the SOPMOD M-14 with its rails and folding stock


The G3 has been replaced by the G36 in the Norewegian army. If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that I pointed out that the G3 was still being used, but that it was nearly phased out.
You got me on that one (darn norwegians only having pictures of G3s on thier webby). The G-36 is actually spains second attempt at ditching the CETME/G3 they tried a 5.56mm version of the CETME (think HK 33) in the early 80s but from what i an gather it didin't go down too well



Civvies versions=/=Service rifles. And I mentioned the Brazilian variant(s) as an exception.
A Large number of the DSA versions are most defiantly not civilian while it is doubtful they actually export a particualrly large volume of rifles they do supply spare parts for the large number of existing FN-FAL users (ie msot of the African members of the commonwealth)



Most of the Soviet client states use licensed versions of the AK-74. (The German version, in particular, was called the MPi AK-74.) Some use the AKM, but, again, not many of those nations would be listed on a poll for the second best military on earth.
Well apparent from those who came up with thier own weird and wonderful varientions on the classic AK-47 design like the czechs and romanians. The vast majority of african clients states only ever received a small number of AK74s sos till use the AKM.

Of course if you use the Brazilian Imbel rifles as exceptions for the FN-FAl (they are more than a little different in some parts) then we can always use the AK-74 as an excption for the AKM...

As to the G-36 the german versions actually have 2 sights, the powered 2x (or is it 3x) sight and a none powered reflex sight, the Spanish version (it hink they went with the export G-36E) has a powered 1.5x red dot sight plus iron sights in the carrying handle.

When I said old, I meant old. Not ancient. :p

And I was under the impression that the CETME was being phased out in favor of the G36.

You probably should have specified something like assault rifles, or automatic rifles then.

Nope wrong, the M-14 DMR is different to the M-21/24. While it can be hard to pin down an actual configuration the basic principle is an M-14 with an Aimpoint or ACOG sign, apparently widely used by the USMC in afghanistan, there is also the SOPMOD M-14 with its rails and folding stock

You mean the EBR? Enhanced Battle Rifle?
I'm still pretty certain that all the M14s in the US arsenal (excepting a handful used by the SEALS for cold weather training) were converted into M21/24s and it is the M21/24 that is the DMR.

Of course if you use the Brazilian Imbel rifles as exceptions for the FN-FAl (they are more than a little different in some parts) then we can always use the AK-74 as an excption for the AKM...

Then I guess I shoulda put the SKS up, instead of the AKM.

You probably should have specified something like assault rifles, or automatic rifles then.

I thought that the choices would have made what I was looking for obvious....

Actually isn't the M-24 a modified Remington 700?

You mean the EBR? Enhanced Battle Rifle?
I'm still pretty certain that all the M14s in the US arsenal (excepting a handful used by the SEALS for cold weather training) were converted into M21/24s and it is the M21/24 that is the DMR.



Then I guess I shoulda put the SKS up, instead of the AKM.

Well the SKS was never as widespread as the AK and i was just beign a bit of dick for which i appologuise.

The M-14s in use today are actually pretty confusing, the Army uses the M-21/24, the marines use the M-14DMR (which on more research is actually closer to the M-21 what with it having a sniper stock and a leupold scope, i think the marines are just beign annoying as they never went for the M-21 originally IIRC). then random units seem to being issued with old M-14A2s and bolting aimpoints on them (seems to be the rangers and marines msotly) soem are gettign shortened "scout" versions (against often with aimpoints) and then there is the SOPMOD that depending on what you read and the exact manufacurer is actually an M1A or an M14 scout and is or isn't actually used by US special forces...

Actually isn't the M-24 a modified Remington 700?

it is actually, i think we are getting confused with soem sort of imporved M-21 i can vaguely remember soemthign about one of those soemwhere.

Marlin 1895 in 45-70.

Mosin-Nagant 189?-1933, those were some awsome rifles. Practically indestructable, good range and accuracy, maybe not as high-quality as the K-98, but the Russians built something like five million MN's during WWII alone ;)
Seriously, though, I bought one of the older Mosin-Nagants once, did the good 'ol Fencepost test, apparently after at least sixty years of zero-maintenance the rifle worked fine except for a slightly sticky action, and we solved that when we cleaned the rifle out.
The Garand is nice, but it has its problems. like reloading issues and going "PING!" when your clip is empty. I personaly would prefer my enemy not to know that Im reloading :P

I tend to prefer my Lee-Enfield (no.4 mk1). It's just so sexy. Not like that new-fangled crap.

My second choice would be the m-14. Mostly because I have one of those, too.

The AK all the way.
Offcourse i'll be happy with any of those Russian rifles Mosin Nagant 1891/30, SKS Simonov, PPsH41(not a rifle but excellent anyway)

The G3 is still being produced and sold by Pakistan(Pakistani Ordnance Factory) which had until a few years ago, one of the best Asian armies(and they thank General Zia for that)

NOTHING beats the unmatched power of the Avtomat Kalashnikov! It can be buried seven years in the ground, and still work when dug up again! Name just ONE weapon, who can do that!!

NOTHING beats the unmatched power of the Avtomat Kalashnikov! It can be buried seven years in the ground, and still work when dug up again! Name just ONE weapon, who can do that!!

Sharps rifle in 45-70.

I'm a sucker for the Kar. 98 (I think that's close to what it's called)

It was the first rifle I ever fired and I just love it above all others.

Sharps rifle in 45-70.

Perhaps, but who can resist the "dakkadakkadakka" sound of the 47...?

Perhaps, but who can resist the "dakkadakkadakka" sound of the 47...?

Who can resist the huge hole the 45-70 puts in things?

Who can resist the huge hole the 45-70 puts in things?

Chuck Norris, he kicks holes in the bullets...