NationStates Jolt Archive

Considering how many people love Europe, would YOU consider it the "Utopia" of Planet Earth? Why?

Utopia is a dream that will never be realised.

For a start, Europe varies greatly depending on what part you're in, and secondly, I pity anyone with too little imagination (or sanity) to think of a better Utopia.

Poll added. Sorry for the strict choices. =/

Utopia can only exist without humans.

There are certain countries in Europe that I'd much prefer living in, but a utopia? I think not.

Considering how many people love Europe, would YOU consider it the "Utopia" of Planet Earth? Why?
Not only no, but HELL no! :p

The "Utopia" of planet earth is a small coastal village in mexico.



Sorry I can't be more specific, but if I was, it wouldn't be "Utopia" for very much longer.

Oh, yeah, the Balkans are a GREAT place to live.

Even if you exclude the Balkans and other such 'inconvinient' places east of Germany, Europe is far from a Utopia, despite what some people might say. Most European countries are having quite a bit of trouble, as much as, if not more, than the US is going through now. Look at Spain and Britain, both having suffered terrorist attacks within the last few years, look at France, having huge riots lasting for weeks. Look at much of Eastern Europe, with their lovely economies and assorted political/economic problems.
Look at how Russia has apparently decided that maybe the Soviet Union wasnt so bad, cutting its exports to the Ukraine and (recently) to Europe (although not nearly as much).
So, if Europe consisted of France, Germany, Italy, and Britain, I wouldnt MIND living there, I would put it at about the same level as the US, but the whole socialism thing doesnt work for me. Call it McCarthyism if you will, as long as you dont mind my calling European capitolism the bastard child of Marx :P

Not only no, but HELL no! :p

It's not utopia, but tuscany is pretty nice and that's in europe.

It's not utopia, but tuscany is pretty nice and that's in europe.
And funnily enough...named for the Etruscans...which is close to Eutrusca.

I prefer it to the rest of the planet, but it can be improved greatly.

Utopia is a dream that will never be realised.
Of course it won't! Not with nay-sayers like you around. We need a purge.

It is, one must concede, as close to one as humnaity can attain without a universal suicide.

It is, one must concede, as close to one as humnaity can attain without a universal suicide.
...no....not really (or at least I hope it isn't...what a sad world it would be!)

...no....not really (or at least I hope it isn't...what a sad world it would be!)

where else then?

Utopia can only exist without humans.

i think its more like "utopia can only exist with no more than one human"

where else then?
Maybe we should narrow it down a little, cause Europe as a whole...
I just don't see the utopian part.

But maybe that's cause I don't care so much for material things?
People need to learn to be happy with what they got... cheer up, dammit! :p

i think its more like "utopia can only exist with no more than one human"
Make that two :D

Maybe we should narrow it down a little, cause Europe as a whole...
I just don't see the utopian part.

But maybe that's cause I don't care so much for material things?
People need to learn to be happy with what they got... cheer up, dammit! :p

Which negates the entire concept of self advancement and human endeavour. no?

Which negates the entire concept of self advancement and human endeavour. no?
Depends on what kind of advancement you're talking about... technology? definitely! material wealth? just as futile.
enjoying life? now that's something we should strive for :D

Depends on what kind of advancement you're talking about... technology? definitely! material wealth? just as futile.
enjoying life? now that's something we should strive for :D

Entirely dependant upon what engenders one's enjoyment. I happen to find material and emotional affairs as enjoybale.

Utopia can only exist without humans.

I agree with this. Utopia is a perfect place, and humans could never be perfect so they wouldn't fit in. Wouldn't a Utopia be boring though? Because in a Utopia we wouldn't have a nationstates forum where we can bitch about the problems of the world!

Utopia? Buggery no!

But then, I think Utopia wouyld be a shite place to live, which sort of negates the concept, which means that would not be utopia. eat paradox!


Nah, it is not Utopia, it is not even particularly good. But most places are worse and there isnt anywhere that seems better (to me).


As such..... Vote Lionstone!

Of course it's a Utopia. All of those muslims rioting in France were actually just 'celebrating' their wonderful lives. Hooray Europe! :rolleyes:

Soon to be eclipsed by Asia...

It will be, it will be..
As will the entire world when I rule, muahahaa.

Well its helluva alot better than the rest of the world.....

The European Union is Paradise on Earth.


http://www.coleurop.be/content/studyprogrammes/pol/images/EP1.jpg


Believe. Obey. Conform.

I don't know about that, but in my opinion it is the only part of the earth that's worth preserving.

It certainly is the utopia of planet Jupiter. Those other moons are just dreadful, and the planet itself has miserable weather.

Lol, there's actually a Utopia, TX and Utopia, FL

Eutopia, eh?

Not really. There are a lot of problems in Europe, including unemployment, economic growth, inflation, immigrant poverty, religious/social tensions, and many more. Until those problems are addressed, Europe will not be a utopia any moreso than the United States or Japan.

However, I believe models like the EU will enable countries to leverage their talents, resources, and infrastructures both against each other as well as the world. Ultimately, economic cooperation across borders will prove to be the best model for creating a world economy.

I've never been to Europe, and some European countries do sound pretty cool but I'm sure they're just like here in the US in the way that they all have things that are great about them and things that suck. Technically when it was created the United States was supposed to be a utopia on earth, where anyone from any background or lifestyle could come and be accepted.
heh, we sure fucked that one up, didn't we? =P

HAHA! HAHAHA! Europe, utopia!? HAHAHAHA!

Excuse my French, but Europe just fucking sucks right now. Utopia is somewhere in the US/Canada.

HAHA! HAHAHA! Europe, utopia!? HAHAHAHA!

Excuse my French, but Europe just fucking sucks right now. Utopia is somewhere in the US/Canada.
Ever been to Europe? Do you even have a passport? :p

The "Utopia" of planet earth is a small coastal village in mexico.



Sorry I can't be more specific, but if I was, it wouldn't be "Utopia" for very much longer.

Ah, so you've been to Rosarito? :p

Bad joke, sorry.

Ever been to Europe? Do you even have a passport? :p

Dude, Paris is burning. City burning, no utopia. End of fucking story.

Dude, Paris is burning. City burning, no utopia. End of fucking story.

A utopia can be viewed as not a set of rules or laws, but rather a collection of just mechanisms by which fair rules or laws can be established, depending on changing circumstances.


EDIT: you will also notice as the original question is framed we are not discussing an actual utopia, but rather the best option - the place which most closely approximates an actual utopia.

A utopia can be viewed as not a set of rules or laws, but rather a collection of just mechanisms by which fair rules or laws can be established, depending on changing circumstances.

Paris is still on fire.

EDIT: And Europe still doesn't come even close.

Paris is still on fire.

A statement which is entirely correct in every respect apart from the slight detail that Paris isn't on fire.

Dude, Paris is burning. City burning, no utopia. End of fucking story.
You're just a kid, and you don't know shit. End of story.

I have actually lived a bit here, and taken the time to go travelling around it. I work for a European multinational. Europe is pretty cool. It has its slums, it has its leafy suburbs, and it works.

Paris is still on fire.

EDIT: And Europe still doesn't come even close.
Wouldn't Prussia be IN Europe? :rolleyes: Or is it in outer space?

No, I don't think it is. The only Utopia would be a perfect greenhouse in Antarctica, the only place where Man hasn't fucked it up entirely, and still, that ozone hole looks pretty damn big...

A statement which is entirely correct in every respect apart from the slight detail that Paris isn't on fire.

When there's an entire sector of Paris that people are scared to go to, I'd say it's not utopia.

When there's an entire sector of Paris that people are scared to go to, I'd say it's not utopia.

And the name of this sector is? And which people are scared to go there?


Aside from the fact that this is all somewhat akin to point to a pile of dung in the back of a shitter in Bumfuck, Idaho and saying - look! people don't want to tread in this! the USA can't be utopia!

And the name of this sector is? And which people are scared to go there?
I'm guessing the 11th or 20th districts, and the people scared to go there are white American tourists who only came for the restaurants and if time allows, a couple of hours in the Louvre.

Been there, seen plenty of that. :(

europe sucks ? , paris is still on fire ? , do any of people who say this stuff even live in europe of have been to europe . first of to me europe is great and not just Ireland and Italy and france where i spend most of my time , but eastern europe too ( i planing to trip to slovakia and czech republic ( being to the czech before its great ) if anyway ones wonder its to go see ireland play in their euro 2008 , of course i will also be going to germany too ( to see ireland play and for the world cup ( to see italy play lol ( i am half italian ) , so yea like i was saying i consider all of europe great , considering i have been from one end of it ( ireland live here, to the other end went to russia and finland , also lived in italy for a while so thats kinda the bottom of it ) and well i am not going to say its utopia or anything , but its best place on earth to me , for the people , culture , history,

so i dont mind if you dont like europe but i dont go on saying other parts of the world are crap or suck , in fact their some that sounds great ( would not mind going to asia or canada ) .

oh and if you still dont think europe is a nice place to live go to those sites


http://www.rte.ie/business/2004/1117/ireland.html
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6529893

,oh and while i am at it i would like to offer my suport for denmark and for freedom of speech

You're just a kid, and you don't know shit. End of story.

I have actually lived a bit here, and taken the time to go travelling around it. I work for a European multinational. Europe is pretty cool. It has its slums, it has its leafy suburbs, and it works.

Any place with slums is no utopia.

Any place with slums is no utopia.
Name any major city without slums then.

Not only no, but HELL no! :p

Seconded.

And the name of this sector is? And which people are scared to go there?

Dish Town. I don't know what's it's really called. Rampant crime and shit.

Name any major city without slums then.

Regardless, any place with slums wouldn't count as Utopia. Move along.

Seconded.
Not that either of you would have put forward an argument...

Name any major city without slums then.

There isn't one. I never said there wasn't. But Europe sure as hell has them. And that's why it's not utopia.

Dish Town. I don't know what's it's really called. Rampant crime and shit.

Do you know where it is in Paris? We should be able to work this out with a map.

Googling 'dish town' + 'Paris' doesn't seem to give any relevant results.

Any place with slums is no utopia.
You can't have winners without losers. You can have Utopia. It's just that not everyone gets to experience it at the same time. ;)

There isn't one. I never said there wasn't. But Europe sure as hell has them. And that's why it's not utopia.
There are nations within it though, like Switzerland, Monaco or some of the Scandinavian ones that approach being a utopia.

You can't have winners without losers. You can have Utopia. It's just that not everyone gets to experience it at the same time. ;)
No, technically you can't have utopia. It means no place.

No, technically you can't have utopia. It means no place.
Tell that to Max Barry. You CAN have a utopia. :mad:

Tell that to Max Barry. You CAN have a utopia. :mad:
Its Greek etymology is ou + topos, meaning no place. It means no such place. I do not care what Max Barry says or doesn't say.

There are nations within it though, like Switzerland, Monaco or some of the Scandinavian ones that approach being a utopia.
Switzerland has a rising poverty rate and integration problems, thanks to its economy which is just as "Socialist" as some of the others. Not that the Yankees here ever pick up on that.
Monaco - well, perhaps. Keeping everyone who isn't loaded out is a way to get there, I suppose.
And although I like the Scandianvian nations, which have some very well laid-out government programs and manage to grow without creating too huge a wealth gap, they still don't quite make "utopia" in my book.

Since utopia depends on what you like, the definition changes anyway. Some might consider the Vatican "utopia", others the Kibbutzim in the old days, and again others might have thought Nazi-Germany was utopian.

No, technically you can't have utopia. It means no place.


It should be noted that the word appears in apostrophes as far as this thread goes, though.

Do you know where it is in Paris? We should be able to work this out with a map.

Googling 'dish town' + 'Paris' doesn't seem to give any relevant results.

Yeah, I googled it too. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure it's in Paris. But it was definitely in France.

I do remember one sector of France, though, full of "troubled" immigrants and high in crime. Name doesn't come to mind.

It should be noted that the word appears in apostrophes as far as this thread goes, though.
Yes, usually. Just pointing out that the word itself implies place that cannot exist.

Since utopia depends on what you like, the definition changes anyway. Some might consider the Vatican "utopia", others the Kibbutzim in the old days, and again others might have thought Nazi-Germany was utopian.
Precisely. The countries I mentioned are the ones which seem most close to utopian to me.

Yeah, I googled it too. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure it's in Paris. But it was definitely in France.

I do remember one sector of France, though, full of "troubled" immigrants and high in crime. Name doesn't come to mind.

So when you declare 'Paris is still on fire' you really mean 'Urrr... some place in France what I can't remember the name of because all them foreign places are all the same anyhow has a higher than average crime rate'.

Yes, usually. Just pointing out that the word itself implies place that cannot exist.

Yeah, but the word has become muddled with eutopia, and the actual lineage of the word 'utopia' is pretty much just pedantry. 99% of the time people mean 'eutopia' when they use the word 'utopia' - in essence changing the meaning of the word 'utopia' and cutting it off from its historical roots.

Its Greek etymology is ou + topos, meaning no place. It means no such place. I do not care what Max Barry says or doesn't say.
There is no God but Max, and [violet] is His Prophet. :mad:

Yeah, but the word has become muddled with eutopia, and the actual lineage of the word 'utopia' is pretty much just pedantry. 99% of the time people mean 'eutopia' when they use the word 'utopia' - in essence changing the meaning of the word 'utopia' and cutting it off from its historical roots.
They mean ideal place, I get it. Paradise would be a better word for it then.

There is no God but Max, and [violet] is His Prophet. :mad:
Pseudo-gods and their followers :rolleyes:

Pseudo-gods and their followers :rolleyes:
JIHAAAD! INFIDELS! :mp5:

(Yeah, it's nearly 4am and I am shamelessly taking the piss)

JIHAAAD! INFIDELS! :mp5:

(Yeah, it's nearly 4am and I am shamelessly taking the piss)
No mercy to those who oppose us! :eek:

Not that either of you would have put forward an argument...

Europe's way too left-wing for my tastes.

I'm proud to live in a country that kicked your collective Euro-asses in the revolution, both world wars, and the Spanish-American War also. How could a place where chicks that don't shave their armpits and everyone's afraid to go to war be any better than the land of the free and home of the brave, wherein we have the right to keep and bear arms and the right to buy whatever kind of medical insurance we want? And we've got nukes, too! All Europe's got is a shitload of white flags. Enjoy rotting in hell, Euro-trash.

I'm proud to live in a country that kicked your collective Euro-asses in the revolution, both world wars, and the Spanish-American War also. How could a place where chicks that don't shave their armpits and everyone's afraid to go to war be any better than the land of the free and home of the brave, wherein we have the right to keep and bear arms and the right to buy whatever kind of medical insurance we want? And we've got nukes, too! All Europe's got is a shitload of white flags. Enjoy rotting in hell, Euro-trash.
Wow. A troll. :) And one of the dumbest I've ever seen. They should give you your own zoo.

Europe's way too left-wing for my tastes.
In other words:
I'm proud to live in a country that kicked your collective Euro-asses in the revolution, both world wars, and the Spanish-American War also. How could a place where chicks that don't shave their armpits and everyone's afraid to go to war be any better than the land of the free and home of the brave, wherein we have the right to keep and bear arms and the right to buy whatever kind of medical insurance we want? And we've got nukes, too! All Europe's got is a shitload of white flags. Enjoy rotting in hell, Euro-trash.

:D

I'm proud to live in a country that kicked your collective Euro-asses in the revolution, both world wars, and the Spanish-American War also. How could a place where chicks that don't shave their armpits and everyone's afraid to go to war be any better than the land of the free and home of the brave, wherein we have the right to keep and bear arms and the right to buy whatever kind of medical insurance we want? And we've got nukes, too! All Europe's got is a shitload of white flags. Enjoy rotting in hell, Euro-trash.
You can't legally drink until 21 and you can't legally fuck when you're 16? Freedom where it counts, my friend. Also, reported.

I have only a tiny thing to add to this, a lot of people have said things like "utopia is an ideal" or "utopia can only be achieved by removing the people" and both are in their way wrong.

The entire point of uptopia is that it is the perfect place for all people to live in, and it is important that it is several people living there. THusly people must be present, indeed even if utopia required the citizen ship of only one person they in turn would desire more, boosting the population.

And secondly utopia is not an ideal, it is more a paradox like the numerical concept of infinity. It is, if you like the human condition to want and desire for things we cannot have, thus making ourselves the greatest cause of imperfection in our own lives. There is a very good reason that utopia means nowhere place.

PS. The Utopia in the book, very horrible place, i certainly wouldnt want to live there.

I'm proud to live in a country that kicked your collective Euro-asses in the revolution, both world wars, and the Spanish-American War also.

The Great War and World War II were both wars against Europe?

Enjoy rotting in hell, Euro-trash.
You're off to a really bad start in perhaps 5 of your original 9 posts. You may be accepted on other forums, but on this one we expect at least a veneer of politeness. Knock it off, or you'll find your NS career to be a short one.

I'm proud to live in a country that kicked your collective Euro-asses in the revolution
Actually, France helped us out enormously in the revolution, many historians dont think we would have survived without France's aid.
, both world wars
WWI: Does anyone have to remind you that 1) the US was not fighting Europe? and more importantly 2) the US got there when the war had already basically hit a stalemate, and they did little to force the outcome of the entire war other than theyre moral support.

WWII:The United States would have never stood a chance without Britain holding out so long. And Hitler actually would have (had he not been a lunatic) been able to crush the allied landing in Normandy had he ordered his reserves into the area. Even still, the allies would have had no chance without Russia pushing Hitler around in the east.
, and the Spanish-American War also.
Hey! I didnt know that the US conquered Spain! Oh wait, they didnt. They merely freed a country they would later dispise... weird how we work for only what matters to them at the time...:rolleyes:
How could a place where chicks that don't shave their armpits and everyone's afraid to go to war
Wait, hold it! People who dont like killing other people!? :eek: They must be evil! :rolleyes:

Disclaimer: Let it be known that I am an American, and although I love this country, I dont agree with this guy in the slightest and had to make it known. We arent ALL like that.;)

I find it quite amusing that a region directly or indirectly responsible for much of the pain and suffering in the world today could ever be considered a utopia.

Did anyone realize Utopia spelled backwards is Aipotu? What is the significance of Aipotu you ask? Well, Aipotu backwards spells Utopia which is a pretty good thing to have your name spell backwards. If you can find Aipotu that would be the first place I would look for utopia.

Did anyone realize Utopia spelled backwards is Aipotu? What is the significance of Aipotu you ask? Well, Aipotu backwards spells Utopia which is a pretty good thing to have your name spell backwards. If you can find Aipotu that would be the first place I would look for utopia.

Lol... that is a worthy first post. I like. :)

I'm proud to live in a country that kicked your collective Euro-asses in the revolution, both world wars, and the Spanish-American War also. How could a place where chicks that don't shave their armpits and everyone's afraid to go to war be any better than the land of the free and home of the brave, wherein we have the right to keep and bear arms and the right to buy whatever kind of medical insurance we want? And we've got nukes, too! All Europe's got is a shitload of white flags. Enjoy rotting in hell, Euro-trash.

*Smiles down condescendingly to the ignorant little troll*

Aww...cute. I love your grasp of history especially - really "interesting". Just goes to prove how great your education system is over there, eh?

Anyway, I think Europe is the continent with the most amount of countries i'd like to live in. I wouldn't like to live in the US in north America, although would pick Canada over many European nations. Wouldn't like to live in Australia, but would go for New Zealand. Wouldn't like to live in South America, Africa, Asia or Antartica period.

Therefore, it's my favourite continent, but I don't think it's any kind of utopia.

*Smiles down condescendingly to the ignorant little troll*

Aww...cute. I love your grasp of history especially - really "interesting". Just goes to prove how great your education system is over there, eh?

Anyway, I think Europe is the continent with the most amount of countries i'd like to live in. I wouldn't like to live in the US in north America, although would pick Canada over many European nations. Wouldn't like to live in Australia, but would go for New Zealand. Wouldn't like to live in South America, Africa, Asia or Antartica period.

Therefore, it's my favourite continent, but I don't think it's any kind of utopia.
Hey, just because OUR education system accepts idiots and attempts to better them doesnt make it worse than yours in any fashion except statistically. And I hate statistics.

Hey, just because OUR education system accepts idiots and attempts to better them doesnt make it worse than yours in any fashion except statistically. And I hate statistics.
And... All the european systems throw every non-straight A student in the gutter? Fascinating.

And... All the european systems throw every non-straight A student in the gutter? Fascinating.
Exactly. Education in Europe is only for smart kids. :D

In other words:
I'm proud to live in a country that kicked your collective Euro-asses in the revolution, both world wars, and the Spanish-American War also. How could a place where chicks that don't shave their armpits and everyone's afraid to go to war be any better than the land of the free and home of the brave, wherein we have the right to keep and bear arms and the right to buy whatever kind of medical insurance we want? And we've got nukes, too! All Europe's got is a shitload of white flags. Enjoy rotting in hell, Euro-trash.

:D

Unlike the troll you quoted, I have nothing against Europeans. The Europeans are good people, and I admire and respect them and their countries. Their governments just aren't my cup of tea.

BAHAHAHAHA sorry, but a utopia is impossible, in large groups anyways. And sorry but Europe although a fun place to visit, i'm much happier in the US.

Yes. And I'm happier in Europe :p .

I just want to say something about the post by Skynnard Rules; Okay, the guy's a moron. However, people on this site constantly berate and ridicule the United States and Americans. Not once have I seen anyone threaten to censor these people, and the first person to say anything rude and derogatory towards Europeans (although ignorant, and factually incorrect in most areas), get numerous 'troll' comments and a threat from a moderator.

This thread could have been subtitled 'Do you think Europeans are the master race?'. After all, Europe is a product of Europeans. Where's the threat from the moderators there? Where's this priniciple of freedom of speech that Europeans have so famously been professing?

Dude, Paris is burning. City burning, no utopia. End of fucking story.

Strange. I happen to work in Paris and live just outside Paris, and it doesn't look "on fire" to me.

Since you've avoided the question about whether you've ever travelled to Europe, and whether you've even got a passport, I'll take your silence as a negative. I've been to nine foreign countries, four of them outside my native continent. Before speaking nonsense, get to know what you're talking about.

Japan is my Utopia. It's got culture, it's got a great government. It's perfect. Of course i you mix it with a conservaive UK we have the perfect world. And if we included cuba we would be too perfect:p
The United Cupan. I can see it now. SMoking a few Havana honeys while playing with a handheld console on a pefect British day. Ah!:rolleyes: Why can't it be real?

Overall, I would say that Europe is the best (or less worse) part of the planet. At least the core Europe, with the social systems.

But EU is far, far from being perfect. And the EU, while it could be a wonderful step forward, allowing people of Europe to unite and stand against neoliberal globalization, bringing the best of each country in all the other ones, is currently doing the exact opposite. EU is forcing european countries to disband their social systems, to accept the rules of neoliberal globalization, and creates competition between the people of Europe, which results in a downward spiral...

And never forget that the EU is completly antidemocratic, the European Parliament having very few power... and EU leaders care so less about democracy that they are doing their best to impose to every their horrible "Constitution", even if it was rejected massively by the people of two founding members: France and Netherlands.

Japan is my Utopia. It's got culture, it's got a great government. It's perfect. Of course i you mix it with a conservaive UK we have the perfect world. And if we included cuba we would be too perfect:p
The United Cupan. I can see it now. SMoking a few Havana honeys while playing with a handheld console on a pefect British day. Ah!:rolleyes: Why can't it be real?

Ahh, if only the world was smaller, than the UK, Cuba and Japan, all more or less equally distant from each other, could all be together.

But uhm... a perfect british day? not likely to get those, are you? I suppose when they do occur, they're pretty good, but they're so rare though!

And never forget that the EU is completly antidemocratic, the European Parliament having very few power... and EU leaders care so less about democracy that they are doing their best to impose to every their horrible "Constitution", even if it was rejected massively by the people of two founding members: France and Netherlands.

I tried reading the constitution. It made no sense to me and I don't see its purpose.

But, having said that, the EU parliament IS democratic. The people in it are voted in by the citizens of the EU from the various member states.