NationStates Jolt Archive

And this is one those times....

read..(note the numbers..those are things i want to discuss later on)

Pastors hope to spread Gospel, hasten End Time

By Louis Sahagun

Los Angeles Times

INGLEWOOD, Calif. — Pastors of some of the largest evangelical churches in America met Tuesday in Inglewood to polish strategies for starting 5 million new churches worldwide in 10 years, an effort they say they hope will hasten the End Time.
The Rapture and Second Coming of Jesus have always been the ultimate goal of evangelicalism. (1) But when that would occur was any Christian's guess.

The Global Pastors Network's "Billion Souls Initiative" aims to shorten the path to Judgment Day by partnering church resources with the latest communications systems to spread the Gospel of Jesus.

In an interview at Faith Central Bible Church in Inglewood, James Davis, president of the campaign, said, "Jesus Christ commissioned his disciples to go to the ends of the Earth and tell everyone how they could achieve eternal life. (2)As we advance around the world, we'll be shortening the time needed to fulfill that great commission.

"Then, the Bible says, the end will come."

Added Davis: "The current generation may actually live long enough to see this."

Faith Central Pastor Kenneth Ulmer, who leads an Inglewood congregation of 10,000, agreed, but said church leaders have differing opinions of what to expect.

"Meeting our goal has messianic dimensions. It will certainly mean some kind of new world order," he said. "I believe when that time comes, the power of peace will be greater than the power of war, the power of love will be greater than the power of hate, and fullness will be greater than poverty and hunger." (3)
The pastors group, which represents combined congregations numbering in the tens of thousands, was launched in 2001 by Bill Bright, founder of Campus Crusade for Christ. Bright died in 2003.

Over the past five years, more than 20,000 church leaders have attended Global Pastors Network events across the nation. Among them were key executives of Pat Robertson's 700 Club, National Evangelical Association President Ted Haggard and the Rev. Jerry Falwell. (4)

"Next year will usher in a new dimension for us," Ulmer said. "We'll be kicking it all into gear internationally with a wedding of technology and vision. We'll be sponsoring major events in Singapore, the Ukraine, South America and Africa."

The movement is already taking on political dimensions.

In late January, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani spoke to the pastors group in Orlando, Fla., on what it takes to be a leader in time of crisis, which is the subject of his new book. Giuliani, a practicing Catholic and supporter of abortion rights and gay rights, is weighing a possible 2008 presidential bid.

"There were those who questioned some of Giuliani's philosophies, and some members would rather not have invited him," Ulmer said. "But for most of us, he was invited to inspire, inform and enrich our leaders."

1)I honestly never knew the Goal of evangelism was to usher in a time of death, suffering, disease etc.. I thought it was to spread the words of Jesus Christ.

2)Believe it or not, the main goal of preaching the word is not to save people from hell..I mean there is truth to that. But when Christ came I don't think he had much of the after life in his message. It was more about being closer to God. (read Marcus Borg's Meeting Jesus again for the first time"

3)Obviously they forgot the countless wars, death, slaughter or millions, disease, and ungodliness that will come with the "New World Order".

4)No suprise at who is leading this


Finally I would like to apologize to everyone on behalf of Chrisitianity. There are some people in our group that really are idiots. I mean they make me ashamed to be called a Christian. So please don't listen to anyone like that, they really are not providing the whole truth of Christianity. Once again I am sorry.

Thomas

It's never too late to stop being one.

I think it would be worthwhile to note that the Bible talks about just such "false prophets" and how evil they will be, in the name of Christ.

(Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray." which they probably use themselves to refer to other people, but more likely in my opinion, refer to people like them.)

Just because they claim to be Christians doesn't make them so. Just like people who are bombing people in the name of Islaam doesn't make them really Islaamic, necessarily. Lunatics generally identify themselves with some group or other - that doesn't make it the group's fault. It also works the other way around - most any group has lunatics which identify themselves with it. It's only when the group becomes made of a majority of lunatics we need to worry.

It's never too late to stop being one.


heh..Im not going to stop being one because of some loons, no matter how embarrassed. But I will ask the people of this forum to stand against those type of people and protest their works.

These loons need psychiatric help.

Excuse me... have you heard the Bad News about Jesus Christ? :D

I think it would be worthwhile to note that the Bible talks about just such "false prophets" and how evil they will be, in the name of Christ.

(Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray." which they probably use themselves to refer to other people, but more likely in my opinion, refer to people like them.)

Just because they claim to be Christians doesn't make them so. Just like people who are bombing people in the name of Islaam doesn't make them really Islaamic, necessarily. Lunatics generally identify themselves with some group or other - that doesn't make it the group's fault. It also works the other way around - most any group has lunatics which identify themselves with it. It's only when the group becomes made of a majority of lunatics we need to worry.


Hah, I think we need to start to worry. All the largest churches are becoming this way. Its really sad at how they can manipulate their followers in such a way...

Excuse me... have you heard the Bad News about Jesus Christ? :D

Jesus is coming, LOOK BUSY! :p

heh..Im not going to stop being one because of some loons, no matter how embarrassed. But I will ask the people of this forum to stand against those type of people and protest their works.
...
Hah, I think we need to start to worry. All the largest churches are becoming this way. Its really sad at how they can manipulate their followers in such a way...
One can believe that Christ is God Incarnate without being a Christian, you know. The word "Christian" is just an associative label. It's not necessarily a rejection of your principles to refuse to align with those who claim to represent Jesus.

Jesus is coming, LOOK BUSY! :p
*Minimises the pron queue*

I accept you apology for what Christianity tried to do to my religion and people.

1)I honestly never knew the Goal of evangelism was to usher in a time of death, suffering, disease etc.. I thought it was to spread the words of Jesus Christ.

2)Believe it or not, the main goal of preaching the word is not to save people from hell..I mean there is truth to that. But when Christ came I don't think he had much of the after life in his message. It was more about being closer to God. (read Marcus Borg's Meeting Jesus again for the first time"

3)Obviously they forgot the countless wars, death, slaughter or millions, disease, and ungodliness that will come with the "New World Order".

4)No suprise at who is leading this

1)You didn't know it, because it's not true. Just because some idiot says it doesn't make it true.

2)That's not a bad point. But you'll notice that the "great commission" was only mentioned once, but things like "don't be afraid" and "love one another" which were said over and over, repeatedly, again and again, are still ignored and not taken seriously. Everyone's so gung-ho about taking over the world, they forget to obey what Jesus said were the greatest commandments: "Love the Lord your God", and "love your neighbor as yourself."

3)I seriously don't think anyone should be looking for a "new world order" and if/when one comes, I think it'll be a BAD thing, not a good one. And I think those who say "oh, great, death, famine, war! The end must be coming!" should look at the past two thousand years, which have been FILLED with death, famine, war and other atrocities. People in WW1 thought it must be the end times, because nothing could get worse than the entire world being at war, right? What egotistical EVIL freaks.

4)Yep. Anything with thier names attached (or Harold Camping, or any number of other psychotics) should NOT be considered Christian in the Christ/Bible/Personal Faith sort of way.

Finally I would like to apologize to everyone on behalf of Chrisitianity. There are some people in our group that really are idiots. I mean they make me ashamed to be called a Christian. So please don't listen to anyone like that, they really are not providing the whole truth of Christianity. Once again I am sorry.

I'm also feeling some second-hand embarrassment over that type of behavior. I think apologizing is a little too far, tho. What needs to happen is that people like you and me need to stand up and say: "These people are fringe. These are the crazy uncles of the Christian community, the ones we only acknowledge at family reunions, and only then because Dad's watching. We haven't given them the authority to speak for us all. Sharing the good news is a good idea, but a true Christian would trust that God had the whole 'Revelations' thing well in hand, and would not entertain the misplaced messianic notion that he could somehow bring it about himself if he breeds a better army of Jehovah's witnesses. Please excuse our... er... 'special' uncles, dear reader, and kindly go on with your day."

Yours, &tc.

No i expect you to apologize.

Because, see when the first poster apologized, it didn't diminish what happened hundreds of years ago to my people, but it made be better at least. ;)

Hah, I think we need to start to worry. All the largest churches are becoming this way. Its really sad at how they can manipulate their followers in such a way...

Yeah, I think THEY fall under the category of Matthew 7:21-23 "On that day many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'"

heh..Im not going to stop being one because of some loons, no matter how embarrassed. But I will ask the people of this forum to stand against those type of people and protest their works.

The entire point of christianity is 'teh end time'. Nothing more. The only reasons why christians spread the jesus thing is so that they'll be 'saved' at 'teh end time.' Moreover, 'teh end time' is really what all christians are desperate to have happen, because without it Jesus can never establish his kingdom.

Christianity, like Islam and Judaism, has nothing to do with spreading 'love' or 'peace': If that does in fact happen - which seems contrary to the experience of history - it is merely incidental to the firm expectation of 'teh apocalpyse.' You know, that joyous day when the righteous will see the wicked (basically anyone not them) cast into the pit of fire. (To be fair to the jews, I don't think they expect the non jews to go to the pit; but they are bound to have some type of eschatological myth involving a super jew kingdom, and an 'teh end time' type event.)

In conclusion, if you want to spread love an peace, you will be far better doing so as an atheist, because you will not be hindered by the attendant silliness - and schadenfreude - of montheism. Especially 'teh end time'. However, if you really need to adhere to some quasi-mythical figure to fell legitimate in your path to create harmony and eliminate suffering, may I recommend buddihsm.

You're obviously too sensitive for old fashioned monotheism.

Friend, my name's Paul but that doesn't make me responsible for every crime commited by anyone called Paul and I certainly don't have to apologise for them.

You don't have to apologise for the actions of these fanatics.

Friend, my name's Paul but that doesn't make me responsible for every crime commited by anyone called Paul and I certainly don't have to apologise for them.
's just as well, too. But, out of curiosity, suppose people banded together to form an Organised Name Society. Would you change your name if a group of representative Pauls decided they wanted to end existence in the name of Paul?

Yeah, I think THEY fall under the category of Matthew 7:21-23 "On that day many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'"
I'm ashamed whenever jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, or any of the other Pharasees that go by the name of Christian open their mouths. Anyone that actually studies the scriptures can see that, as in the time of Jesus, those that claim to have the most religious knowledge actuallly have the least. I hang my head in total shame when I hear the words "fundamentalist christian". They have no knowledge of the fundamentals and they certainly don't follow the teaching of Christ.

Doing this is like declaring that Christianity is the only true faith around, while currently, its a belief that all religions are motored by "blind faith".

's just as well, too. But, out of curiosity, suppose people banded together to form an Organised Name Society. Would you change your name if a group of representative Pauls decided they wanted to end existence in the name of Paul?

I'd hyphenate my name to show that I was a Paul and not all Pauls are evil while simultaneously declaring my distaste for the actions of my name brothers.

Who am I kidding? I'd be the one leading the mighty Paul army on its namocidal rampage...

Just because they claim to be Christians doesn't make them so. Just like people who are bombing people in the name of Islaam doesn't make them really Islaamic, necessarily. Lunatics generally identify themselves with some group or other - that doesn't make it the group's fault.
Yes it does, in this case. Theistic religions give credence and respectability to the idea that it's makes sense to irrationally believe in things for which there is no evidence and which are neither provable nor disprovable. They provide a ready-made audience of potential followers for those who want to take the irrationality just one stage further, and are a magnet for such nutcases.

Yes it does, in this case. Theistic religions give credence and respectability to the idea that it's makes sense to irrationally believe in things for which there is no evidence and which are neither provable nor disprovable. They provide a ready-made audience of potential followers for those who want to take the irrationality just one stage further, and are a magnet for such nutcases.

Nut cases will always find a reason to be nut cases, religion just provides better music.

Christians look forward to the end of times not because of the suffering, but because after those dark times Christ will come back to rule forever and Christians will live happily ever after. Everyone else will go to hell, of course, but since they were sinner to begin with it's not like it would be a big loss.

One of the conditions that has to be fulfilled before Christ can come is that the entire world must be evangelized, that is, everybody should have at least heard the about Christ and his Promise and that stuff. They will try to convert you so that you too can be saved, but often just getting you to listen is enough for them.

Usually this type of belief is benign. Problem is when the end doesn't come soon enough and some of the most impatient start killing a few people or making suicide pacts to see if Jesus will hurry.

Who am I kidding? I'd be the one leading the mighty Paul army on its namocidal rampage...
What about the John, George, and Ringo armies?

In an interview at Faith Central Bible Church in Inglewood, James Davis, president of the campaign, said, "Jesus Christ commissioned his disciples to go to the ends of the Earth and tell everyone how they could achieve eternal life. (2)As we advance around the world, we'll be shortening the time needed to fulfill that great commission.

Wait. Are these guys stupid? I mean I'd say they're 3 times my age and I probably know more about Christianity than they do. God has set a day for the end of the world. Nothing we do can change that. They think that as feeble humans we can persuade God to give us less time? That makes no sense. I actually don't want to see the end of the World. Because that will mean all hope is lost for non-Christians. Sigh.

I think it would be worthwhile to note that the Bible talks about just such "false prophets" and how evil they will be, in the name of Christ.

(Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray." which they probably use themselves to refer to other people, but more likely in my opinion, refer to people like them.)

Just because they claim to be Christians doesn't make them so. Just like people who are bombing people in the name of Islaam doesn't make them really Islaamic, necessarily. Lunatics generally identify themselves with some group or other - that doesn't make it the group's fault. It also works the other way around - most any group has lunatics which identify themselves with it. It's only when the group becomes made of a majority of lunatics we need to worry.

You're right. I also read (I think in Revelation) that somebody will actually claim to be Jesus (and succeed, I know many of you like to say you're him!) before it is all over. Something like 'the man of lawlessness'...

"The Rapture and Second Coming of Jesus have always been the ultimate goal of evangelicalism."
How can they be soarrogant as to believe that they have an effect on these events?

No i expect you to apologize.

Because, see when the first poster apologized, it didn't diminish what happened hundreds of years ago to my people, but it made be better at least. ;)
Well then. Whomever you and "your people" are, you all better get to apologizing about every bad thing you ever fucking did to ANYBODY, because I'll be damned if I'll apologize to a fellow wrong-doer.

If we didn't have any control over what was done to "your people", why should we have to make up for it? "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son", or more commonly, the sins of the fathers shall not be visited upon the sons. We do not punish one generation for the sins of another.

And this is one those times....

read..(note the numbers..those are things i want to discuss later on)



1)I honestly never knew the Goal of evangelism was to usher in a time of death, suffering, disease etc.. I thought it was to spread the words of Jesus Christ.

2)Believe it or not, the main goal of preaching the word is not to save people from hell..I mean there is truth to that. But when Christ came I don't think he had much of the after life in his message. It was more about being closer to God. (read Marcus Borg's Meeting Jesus again for the first time"

3)Obviously they forgot the countless wars, death, slaughter or millions, disease, and ungodliness that will come with the "New World Order".

4)No suprise at who is leading this


Finally I would like to apologize to everyone on behalf of Chrisitianity. There are some people in our group that really are idiots. I mean they make me ashamed to be called a Christian. So please don't listen to anyone like that, they really are not providing the whole truth of Christianity. Once again I am sorry.

Thomas

I am thrilled to know that there are Christian who agree with me that these guys are loonies. Thank you Thomas, you just spared me years of grief.:fluffle:

How can they be soarrogant as to believe that they have an effect on these events?



Yeah same thought here..Nothing but arrogance and as someone before stated, only God will determine when the end truly is, not people.

I am thrilled to know that there are Christian who agree with me that these guys are loonies. Thank you Thomas, you just spared me years of grief.:fluffle:
If you engaged in these conversations often, you'd know that most Christians consider these guys loonies. Thomas isn't exactly a minority in that.

Simonist']If you engaged in these conversations often, you'd know that most Christians consider these guys loonies. Thomas isn't exactly a minority in that.


Shh..let me bask in the moment of praise..hehe

I am thrilled to know that there are Christian who agree with me that these guys are loonies. Thank you Thomas, you just spared me years of grief.:fluffle:


Hey i do what i can to get the fluffle.....but seriously it is becoming increasingly less common ,IMO, to see christians that go against what the main stream big dogs are saying... its scary to think that the modern church is becoming like laodecia....lukewarm in faith and all that...hmm wait..they might just be ushering the end times :rolleyes:

Hey i do what i can to get the fluffle.....but seriously it is becoming increasingly less common ,IMO, to see christians that go against what the main stream big dogs are saying... its scary to think that the modern church is becoming like laodecia....lukewarm in faith and all that...hmm wait..they might just be ushering the end times :rolleyes:
I think that would depend largely on denomination. I haven't noticed any changes in the policies and teachings of the Protestant churches around here, but the Catholic Church couldn't really be called "lukewarm in faith", at least not our Diocese.....

Oh, and here, fluffle-slut....fluffles galore :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Simonist']I think that would depend largely on denomination. I haven't noticed any changes in the policies and teachings of the Protestant churches around here, but the Catholic Church couldn't really be called "lukewarm in faith", at least not our Diocese.....

Oh, and here, fluffle-slut....fluffles galore :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:


Well i mean i have seen preaching shift from the good ol red in the face baptist preachers to more like the teachings of Joel Osteen, which is on my watch list...

and thanks..i am having a flufflgasm right now :D

Excuse me... have you heard the Bad News about Jesus Christ? :D

Yeah, so it turns out he was in a pretty bad car accident. Petey and Pauley told him not to buy a late 80's Firebird, but it was like $800, and J thought he could fix it up for a fun ride.

Sigh...we kinda tried to tell him that fixing a break line isn't like casting out demons, but he said he bought some kind of Chilton manual or something, so, what can you do...

Joel Osteen

Him and his father .... *shudder* .... *cringe* ....


Anyway, don't be ashamed to be Christian. Even with all the insanity over suicide bombings and Danish charicatures, I'm not in any way ashamed to be Muslim.

Christianity is a beautiful thing. Jesus's message was one of love, peace, and hope. Can't go wrong there.

Anyway, don't be ashamed to be Christian. Even with all the insanity over suicide bombings and Danish charicatures, I'm not in any way ashamed to be Muslim.

Christianity is a beautiful thing. Jesus's message was one of love, peace, and hope. Can't go wrong there.

Wish we heard more of that kind of religion.

Nut cases will always find a reason to be nut cases, religion just provides better music.

Exactly...or at least right up until Stryper.

Why would they want to speed up the end of times?

Hell, wouldn't they be incapable of doing that, seeing as this god of theirs would pick its moment to end the world?

The end times will come with or without man's intervention. to try and hasten this, assuming you will be saved is vain and a sin, in my opinion.

While spreading the gospel to heathen cultures and those who have heard it not is indeed good, their motives are questionable.

Not every group in the christian faith has a unified belief, a strength most Islam nations or people have. that is why their numbers are larger i think. not so much that they have more followers, but that our followers are divided and a unifacation of the christians is in order.

Jesus had very simple messages for his followers (Christan=Christ Like I Am, or i follow in christ's footsteps). he loved all, unbelieving and believing alike. i have friend who are wiccan and although they have stabbed me in the back, slandered me and wounded me physically i love them the same. to be unforgiving to those around you is a sin, which God will hold you accountable for. however, to stay around such evil intent is ludicrous. the past should always be considered so that it does not become the future.

Teach love, compassion, charity, forgiveness, family, understanding, knowledge, peace with yourself and those around you, animal kindness, grace, humility and justice. these things the Lord, our God, praises.

Emulate the Christ-child to the best of your ability, ask forgiveness when you fall short, this is all that can be expected. if these people have indeed fallen short of the glory of his righteousness, as all humans do, they can find their way back onto the path of the Holy and seek forgiveness from all.

Hate the sin and the malice, not the person (or sinner). these are my beliefs and i carry them throughout my days. when the end comes, i will greet God and his Son as allies and friends for i have tried to do their work in my life and in my heart.

Rich :D

Finally I would like to apologize to everyone on behalf of Chrisitianity.

I don't accept your apology. But that is because YOU have nothing to apologize for. If you believe an occultist, an atheist, or whatever, will go to Heaven based on their DEEDS, I not only say you don't need to apologize, I also say you need cookies. *Hands Zilam a bag of cookies* :)

The end times will come with or without man's intervention. to try and hasten this, assuming you will be saved is vain and a sin, in my opinion.

While spreading the gospel to heathen cultures and those who have heard it not is indeed good, their motives are questionable.

Not every group in the christian faith has a unified belief, a strength most Islam nations or people have. that is why their numbers are larger i think. not so much that they have more followers, but that our followers are divided and a unifacation of the christians is in order.

Jesus had very simple messages for his followers (Christan=Christ Like I Am, or i follow in christ's footsteps). he loved all, unbelieving and believing alike. i have friend who are wiccan and although they have stabbed me in the back, slandered me and wounded me physically i love them the same. to be unforgiving to those around you is a sin, which God will hold you accountable for. however, to stay around such evil intent is ludicrous. the past should always be considered so that it does not become the future.

Teach love, compassion, charity, forgiveness, family, understanding, knowledge, peace with yourself and those around you, animal kindness, grace, humility and justice. these things the Lord, our God, praises.

Emulate the Christ-child to the best of your ability, ask forgiveness when you fall short, this is all that can be expected. if these people have indeed fallen short of the glory of his righteousness, as all humans do, they can find their way back onto the path of the Holy and seek forgiveness from all.

Hate the sin and the malice, not the person (or sinner). these are my beliefs and i carry them throughout my days. when the end comes, i will greet God and his Son as allies and friends for i have tried to do their work in my life and in my heart.

Rich :D
By George, I think you've got it. :)

Yeah, I think THEY fall under the category of Matthew 7:21-23 "On that day many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'"
The interesting thing is that this passage is used in one of Jack Chick's more memorable cartoons to dismiss other Christians of other denominations who are 'doing mighty works in God's name' ie. founding orphanages and actually helping people, rather than the obviously preferable witnessing and 'saving people' to speed up this rapture doohickey.
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0041/0041_01.asp

The interesting thing is that this passage is used in one of Jack Chick's more memorable cartoons to dismiss other Christians of other denominations who are 'doing mighty works in God's name' ie. founding orphanages and actually helping people, rather than the obviously preferable witnessing and 'saving people' to speed up this rapture doohickey.
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0041/0041_01.asp
Giuseppe?
*what difference would it make?*
;)

Nut cases will always find a reason to be nut cases, religion just provides better music.
Precisely. But when the music is a version of what so many people are already listening to, many of them don't recognize the nutcases as nutcases.

Quit Apologizing, for starters.

It's obvious that these morons have no clue about the bible at all.

(Matt. 24)
verse 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

So, don't worry. :)