NationStates Jolt Archive

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_en_mo/film_g_rated_gender)

Woop-de-fricking-doo...stupid femenists should shut up and get a job. Have they ever considered maybe females only want to be in a movie if it is romantic or sexual in nature. Also, the study focused on top-making films, not all films.

When a civil rights group runs out of real issues to protest, it will complain about trivialities instead.

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_en_mo/film_g_rated_gender)

Woop-de-fricking-doo...stupid femenists should shut up and get a job. Have they ever considered maybe females only want to be in a movie if it is romantic or sexual in nature. Also, the study focused on top-making films, not all films.

Disney seems to have young male characters without mothers...mom is dead or just never mentioned.

What's up with that?:(

Disney seems to have young male characters without mothers...mom is dead or just never mentioned.

What's up with that?:(
Well it just wouldn't be such a touching story of modern-day redemption if the mother was there whipping everybody's butts into shape. Unless she was an alcoholic or drug abuser. But by and large, that seems a little too hardcore for Disney.

Well why don't the people who want more female characters start writing some screenplays? It seems to me that would solve the problem with alot less whining.

Disney seems to have young male characters without mothers...mom is dead or just never mentioned.

What's up with that?:(
Well Disney is a front for the Gay Agenda (tm). Therefore they show kids without mothers in order to make the children of gay male parents more comfortable.

Well why don't the people who want more female characters start writing some screenplays? It seems to me that would solve the problem with alot less whining.

As if feminists would whine...

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_en_mo/film_g_rated_gender)

Woop-de-fricking-doo...stupid femenists should shut up and get a job. Have they ever considered maybe females only want to be in a movie if it is romantic or sexual in nature. Also, the study focused on top-making films, not all films.
Um, the "feminists" in this case are individuals who are being paid to study the sex representation in G-rated films. In other words, they are doing their jobs.

As much as I'm inclined to rag on feminists out of sheer principle(the whole maintaining an opinion simply because one's opponents do not cease to be insipid thing), they may have a minor point here.

Minorities and women are woefully underepresented in TV and movies and the like. This is well known and documented. Is this right? Probably not. I mean, unless there is a real artistic reason for it, why have less black people or less women than you have WASPs? It sends the wrong message.

But is it important enough to get in a major fuss about? Doubtful. I can think of much worse abuses of equality than who Disney casts in their next movie.

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_en_mo/film_g_rated_gender)

Woop-de-fricking-doo...stupid femenists should shut up and get a job. Have they ever considered maybe females only want to be in a movie if it is romantic or sexual in nature. Also, the study focused on top-making films, not all films.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. The bolded statement is moronic, bordering on mysogynistic.

Let's see. A study shows that women are underrepresented in the movies, so feminists are stupid and unemployed?

:rolleyes:

Well Disney is a front for the Gay Agenda (tm). Therefore they show kids without mothers in order to make the children of gay male parents more comfortable.
According to my backwards southern neighbors at our vacation property in Arkansas, AARP is actually the front of the Gay Agenda. Disney's just a sad pawn.

I really don't get the toy story thing though. Well I do, but it is a bit weird. Firstly a number of the toys cannot be said to have a gender. Second they're toys of a BOY! And thirdly, did the guy who said this not realise the little bit of humour the creators of toy story were putting in with Bo Peep's behavior?

Um, the "feminists" in this case are individuals who are being paid to study the sex representation in G-rated films. In other words, they are doing their jobs.

Damnit! If people don't read the sources they post that means that I have to!

Well Disney is a front for the Gay Agenda (tm). Therefore they show kids without mothers in order to make the children of gay male parents more comfortable.


that makes sense

Studios make films to earn money. If male characters outnumber female ones by so much perhaps they feel that having more female leads will draw fewer people in the audience.

Disney seems to have young male characters without mothers...mom is dead or just never mentioned.

What's up with that?:(

Ya, Bambi....oh wait, his mother was his sole parental figure.

Well, Simba's mother played no role in the Lion King......damn it she did. Her and the lionesses were Simba's little army.

Of course, its not like the majority of Disney movies have strong female leads or anything, right?

And if these findings are true, do you think it has something to do with consumer demographics? As in who buys most of the useless shit in this country?


And were these people paid to conduct a study, or paid to find a result?

Ya, Bambi....oh wait, his mother was his sole parental figure.

Well, Simba's mother played no role in the Lion King......damn it she did. Her and the lionesses were Simba's little army.

Of course, its not like the majority of Disney movies have strong female leads or anything, right?

And if these findings are true, do you think it has something to do with consumer demographics? As in who buys most of the useless shit in this country?


And were these people paid to conduct a study, or paid to find a result?
I assumed, in much a different light, that they were referring to the number of recent, especially live-action Disney films that may have had mostly strong male leads. Not that I care or pay attention, but working at a movie theatre you kinda notice these types of things. Live-actions films, as far as Disney is concerned, are usually the ones that they'll either try to market to the older children or the male children, ergo female leads will be less prominent by far.

From TFA: "We're showing kids a world that's very scantly populated with women and female characters," said actress Geena Davis, founder of See Jane, a program of the advocacy group Dads & Daughters that encourages balanced gender representation in entertainment for children.

Huh??? Women are the primary caregivers for almost all children! I've seen statistics that show fathers communicating with their children for only a few minutes each day. Most elementary school teachers are women. We need more male representation for kids, not less.

How will seeing a preponderance of male cartoon characters for a 2 hour movie somehow diminish the role of women to children?

There are more important things to complain about than this. Move along.

Huh??? Women are the primary caregivers for almost all children! I've seen statistics that show fathers communicating with their children for only a few minutes each day. Most elementary school teachers are women. We need more male representation for kids, not less.

How will seeing a preponderance of male cartoon characters for a 2 hour movie somehow diminish the role of women to children?

There are more important things to complain about than this. Move along.
But, as has already been touched on, there's more to G-rated films than just cartoons, and that's where most of the statistics are likely pulled from. Besides, do you think it'll create balance in a child's mind if in their real life they barely see Dad, but in the movies there is little or no mention/appearance/interaction with Mom? It'll only serve to confuse them a bit.

If you think there are more "important" things to complain about, simple solution -- don't bother reading this thread.

Huh??? Women are the primary caregivers for almost all children! I've seen statistics that show fathers communicating with their children for only a few minutes each day. Most elementary school teachers are women. We need more male representation for kids, not less.

How will seeing a preponderance of male cartoon characters for a 2 hour movie somehow diminish the role of women to children?

There are more important things to complain about than this. Move along.

Nice to agree with someone on an issue. People really need to find more things to do with their time then complain about something as insignificant as this, find themselves something worthwhile to whine about.

Ya, Bambi....oh wait, his mother was his sole parental figure.

Well, Simba's mother played no role in the Lion King......damn it she did. Her and the lionesses were Simba's little army.

Of course, its not like the majority of Disney movies have strong female leads or anything, right?

And if these findings are true, do you think it has something to do with consumer demographics? As in who buys most of the useless shit in this country?


And were these people paid to conduct a study, or paid to find a result?

After Bambi's mother dies, who takes care of Bambi?

Snow White: A helpless woman cursed by another woman. Saved by a man, and seven males.

Cinderella: A helpless woman punished by other women. Saved by a man.

The Little Mermaid: A helpless woman cursed by another woman. Saved by a male.

So, we have women shown to be either helpless or evil. Great.:rolleyes:

Personally, I think people should look out for what they wish for. Look at all these 'predominantly male' television shows. Who's the jackass in 'According to Jim', 'All in the Family', 'The Jeffersons', 'Good Times', 'The Simpsons', etc.

The Simpsons are the perfect example. Both the males in that show are dumb criminals. They generally show Maggie as more intelligent than Bart or Homer.

In Roseanne, the one who always knows what's going on and runs the house? Roseanne, of course.

Jim on According to Jim is an idiot, a liar and sometimes a criminal.

The War at Home, again an idiot, a criminal and a liar.

Malcolm in the Middle, Mom is a bitch, but dad is an idiot and frankly dangerous.

The King of Queens, almost the same as Malcolm in the Middle.

Yes, Dear, again, dumbass fathers and smart and generally clear-headed mothers.

Yep. Those men on TV are definitely getting all the good press. I say we can give all of those roles to women.

After Bambi's mother dies, who takes care of Bambi?

Snow White: A helpless woman cursed by another woman. Saved by a man, and seven males.

Cinderella: A helpless woman punished by other women. Saved by a man.

The Little Mermaid: A helpless woman cursed by another woman. Saved by a male.

So, we have women shown to be either helpless or evil. Great.:rolleyes:

Actually, in the Little Mermaid, she more or less saves herself.

[QUOTE=Kroisistan] I mean, unless there is a real artistic reason for it, why have less black people or less women than you have WASPs? It sends the wrong message.
QUOTE]

Probably because, in the western countries that these films are usually set in, there are actually less black people than white, well...in the uk anyway. As for women, I have no clue...

I'm surprised they're complaining about the fact that women are not given as much screen time as men and not the fact that the majority of stuff coming out doesn't have a complete family in it.
Freaky Friday... Divorced Mom
Finding Nemo... Mom get's eaten
Land Before Time.... no complete family for any of those dinosaurs.
Dinosaur... orphaned Dinosaur.
Annie... Orphaned Girl.

and try to count how many Disney animated films have a complete family in them. Of all of em, I bet you can't get a third of what they made.

After Bambi's mother dies, who takes care of Bambi?is that his father? or the leader of the herd. not mentioned, so at worse, a foster father, at best his father. but then again where was he when the mother was still around? portrayal of male: no place in the family.
Snow White: A helpless woman cursed by another woman. Saved by a man, and seven males.after the woman barges into the men's home (dwarves) and proceeds to dictate to them how they should live. the fact that they outnumber her 7-1 and the fact that she is the intruder does not concern her. and the fact that the Hunter dumps her in the woods and doesn't even accompany her to protect her... Portrayal of Men: WhimpsCinderella: A helpless woman punished by other women. Saved by a man.step mother... where's the father... portrayed as an imbicile

The Little Mermaid: A helpless woman cursed by another woman. Saved by a male.and father is portrayed as insensitive bully.So, we have women shown to be either helpless or evil. Great.:rolleyes:and men are shown and stupid, whimps, evil or just plain incompetant.

You have to get the children while they're young and still open to manipulation. It really doesn't surprise me that Disney would have this sort of mindset. I mean, look at the rampant aristocracy in Disney movies. Every character seems to be a prince or princess.

iPortrayal of Men: Whimpsstep mother... where's the father....
Just wanted to touch on that one -- the father is dead. That's where the father is. Should you someday decide to read the actual story, you'll have a better grasp on the entire Cinderella situation, not just the Disney version.

Now, can we quit arguing Disney-specific movies? A lot of those are portrayals of much older fairy tales, ergo they're not directly responsible for many of the negative family portrayals. Really, guys, one would think your parents never actually read stories to you as children.

Simonist']Just wanted to touch on that one -- the father is dead. That's where the father is. Should you someday decide to read the actual story, you'll have a better grasp on the entire Cinderella situation, not just the Disney version.

Now, can we quit arguing Disney-specific movies? A lot of those are portrayals of much older fairy tales, ergo they're not directly responsible for many of the negative family portrayals. Really, guys, one would think your parents never actually read stories to you as children.
ahh, but several versions had the father alive, not just Disney, including adapted plays. but I won't argue the point.

as for having read stories as children... Disney has "Altered" Tales to suit their needs. Little Mermaid? The original had a very VERY different ending. MULAN? the Version I read also ended differently. Hunchback of Notre Dame anyone?

Disney has altered tales to suit their needs, and their versions become the more popular ones.

After Bambi's mother dies, who takes care of Bambi?

No one. Who set fire to the forrest? A man. Who shot up the other animals? A man.

Snow White: A helpless woman cursed by another woman. Saved by a man, and seven males.

OK one exception.

Cinderella: A helpless woman punished by other women. Saved by a man.

What man saved her? She had the other shoe. The fairy godmother hooked her up. It was her own perserverance that got her through it all.

The Little Mermaid: A helpless woman cursed by another woman. Saved by a male.

Its been a long time since I've seen it, but all I remember the guy doing is landing the killing blow. The girl saved his life too.

So, we have women shown to be either helpless or evil. Great.:rolleyes:

Well, if you actually watch the movies, you'd have a different opinion.

Um, the "feminists" in this case are individuals who are being paid to study the sex representation in G-rated films. In other words, they are doing their jobs.
Really Bottle, it seems every time someone has a different view to your own, you resort to your favourite tactics of sound logic and solid reasoning.

What is the world coming to when someone cant whine that people doing their jobs ought to stop whining and get a job without you bringing reality into the issue? :p

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying little girls want more G rated films with females they can look up to. Villainizing the people saying such a thing is the real waste of time.

And I should care, why...?

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying little girls want more G rated films with females they can look up to. Villainizing the people saying such a thing is the real waste of time.

They're entitled to their opinions, as are we all. I still say children need more positive male role models. Preferably IRL, as opposed to just in the movies.

They're entitled to their opinions, as are we all. I still say children need more positive male role models. Preferably IRL, as opposed to just in the movies.
How about more positive people in general... male and female in equal quantities?

Yes, it's great to have positive role models and all, but let's face it a lot of these tales are watched because the people in them are idiots and that makes it funny. Part of what was great about Finding Nemo is the father is freaked-out scared all the time and Ellen's character forgets everything every five minutes. What does come across is most of these movies and shows that show all of these people generally as idiots or insensitive or wimps or mean or whatever, is that the parents often turn out to care very much about their kids. The main characters are redeeming because they become nice people or are nice people and it makes us love them as characters. That is positive. The rest of it is just make the whole thing more entertaining.

HOLY SHIT!

So cartoons and children's movies are NOT ACCURATE PORTRAYALS OF STARK REALITY??????

Fuck, I wish *I'd* thought of that!

How about more positive people in general... male and female in equal quantities?

I'm a single mom. Trying to raise a boy. I see the same thing with other single moms. Absent father-ism is rampant. Even kids whose dads are at home with them spend a heck of a lot less time interacting with them - on average - than their mothers do.

If a child's teachers are women, caregivers are women, primary parent is a woman... women are carrying the day in his life... I say he needs more male role models. And not the on-screen kind.

HOLY SHIT!

So cartoons and children's movies are NOT ACCURATE PORTRAYALS OF STARK REALITY??????

Fuck, I wish *I'd* thought of that!

ROTFL!!!

I'm a single mom. Trying to raise a boy. I see the same thing with other single moms. Absent father-ism is rampant. Even kids whose dads are at home with them spend a heck of a lot less time interacting with them - on average - than their mothers do.

If a child's teachers are women, caregivers are women, primary parent is a woman... women are carrying the day in his life... I say he needs more male role models. And not the on-screen kind.
There might be a point to that. But what does it have to do with what is on-screen?

My point is, movies affect kids how much?
And... the presence of men affect kids how much?

If there are more men in the movies, yay. Great. Maybe that's where they all went. If that's where we have to take our sons so we can point and say, "See that guy? That's an example of a good man!" it sucks, but so be it. Better than nothing.

IMO, a fatherhood movement would be a better use of time than studying the percentage of time that actors of either sex appear on camera. If I were a father I'd start one, but I'm not. I'm just a mom doing the best I can and hoping for better.

Snow White: A helpless woman cursed by another woman. Saved by a man, and seven males.

Cinderella: A helpless woman punished by other women. Saved by a man.

The Little Mermaid: A helpless woman cursed by another woman. Saved by a male.

So, we have women shown to be either helpless or evil. Great.:rolleyes:

That is too true. But then again these stories were written by men years and years ago. Women had no rights at that time.

My point is, movies affect kids how much?
And... the presence of men affect kids how much?

If there are more men in the movies, yay. Great. Maybe that's where they all went. If that's where we have to take our sons so we can point and say, "See that guy? That's an example of a good man!" it sucks, but so be it. Better than nothing.

IMO, a fatherhood movement would be a better use of time than studying the percentage of time that actors of either sex appear on camera. If I were a father I'd start one, but I'm not. I'm just a mom doing the best I can and hoping for better.

Good for you. Your child(ren?) seems to be getting the best of care from a female perspective. But, yes, I can't possibly see how watching men on screen can in any way compensate. I mean when I was a young kid I wasn't even aware of how unbalanced television was in terms of male and female. I wanted entertainment, not a reflection of reality.

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_en_mo/film_g_rated_gender)

Woop-de-fricking-doo...stupid femenists should shut up and get a job. Have they ever considered maybe females only want to be in a movie if it is romantic or sexual in nature. Also, the study focused on top-making films, not all films.
Ok, so we should stop examining culture? I think, yes, this is a relatively small issue. However it is indicative of a wider issue within society, namely gendered representation in the media. Generally we see individuals who are sex-typed as successful and appropriate, and I think we need to see more gender independence out there. But I'm just a stupid "femenist" right? :rolleyes:
And I HATE when people put all feminists in one basket and... UGH!!! :mad:

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_en_mo/film_g_rated_gender)

Woop-de-fricking-doo...stupid femenists should shut up and get a job. Have they ever considered maybe females only want to be in a movie if it is romantic or sexual in nature. Also, the study focused on top-making films, not all films.

You took the exaserbation right out of my mouth...

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_en_mo/film_g_rated_gender)

Woop-de-fricking-doo...stupid femenists should shut up and get a job. Have they ever considered maybe females only want to be in a movie if it is romantic or sexual in nature. Also, the study focused on top-making films, not all films.
When you consider that the vast majority of teachers and childminders encountered by children are female, this is not a problem.

My point is, movies affect kids how much?
And... the presence of men affect kids how much?
A quick skim through the link will quickly show that it isnt just G rated movies, but rather G rated movies as well (as adult movies, tv, media in general).

If there are more men in the movies, yay. Great. Maybe that's where they all went. If that's where we have to take our sons so we can point and say, "See that guy? That's an example of a good man!" it sucks, but so be it. Better than nothing.
:confused: Toy Story is not a story about males remaining in the family home but rather a story about the adventure and 'personal growth' the two main (male) protragonists gain by leaving the family home. Most media portrayals that show men in the home and being available to their families are 'fish out of water' type plots. How you think portraying 'outside the home' as the most natural and exciting domain for males is or could be some kind of a panacea for male absence in the family as is a mystery to me.

IMO, a fatherhood movement would be a better use of time than studying the percentage of time that actors of either sex appear on camera.
Another one? What makes you think it will be any more successful than the existing ones so long as we are saturated with media portrayals that overwhelmingly indicate that males are best suited and happiest just about anywhere but the family home?

If I were a father I'd start one, but I'm not. I'm just a mom doing the best I can and hoping for better.
I dont see what not being a father has to do with it unless of course you are under the impression that whales started 'Whale Watch'....:confused:

My point is, movies affect kids how much?
And... the presence of men affect kids how much?

If there are more men in the movies, yay. Great. Maybe that's where they all went. If that's where we have to take our sons so we can point and say, "See that guy? That's an example of a good man!" it sucks, but so be it. Better than nothing.

IMO, a fatherhood movement would be a better use of time than studying the percentage of time that actors of either sex appear on camera. If I were a father I'd start one, but I'm not. I'm just a mom doing the best I can and hoping for better.
But this isn't the point of the study. Other studies are dedicated to that particular problem. If a child's only role model is coming at them from a movie screen, there is more of a problem there than the sex of the character.

As a role model to your own child, what exactly is wrong with a child identifying with a character on screen and saying, "Just like my mom."?

I really just see the article as a call for more female oriented G rated movies without all the condemnation of men oriented G rated movies some of the other posters are seeing. I fail to see the problem.

Personally, I think people should look out for what they wish for. Look at all these 'predominantly male' television shows. Who's the jackass in 'According to Jim', 'All in the Family', 'The Jeffersons', 'Good Times', 'The Simpsons', etc.

The Simpsons are the perfect example. Both the males in that show are dumb criminals. They generally show Maggie as more intelligent than Bart or Homer.

In Roseanne, the one who always knows what's going on and runs the house? Roseanne, of course.

Jim on According to Jim is an idiot, a liar and sometimes a criminal.

The War at Home, again an idiot, a criminal and a liar.

Malcolm in the Middle, Mom is a bitch, but dad is an idiot and frankly dangerous.

The King of Queens, almost the same as Malcolm in the Middle.

Yes, Dear, again, dumbass fathers and smart and generally clear-headed mothers.

Yep. Those men on TV are definitely getting all the good press. I say we can give all of those roles to women.

You're missing a big point though. All of the shows you list here are comedies. Comedies are intended to make people laugh. Successful jokes put people in unusual, unexpected, or exaggerated scenarios. The whole point of the family dynamics is comedies to show how wrong they are - and by subtle implication show how there is something wrong with families that aren't 'normal' - ie: that if a family doesn't have a wise workaholic father as its the indisputable head and a dutiful June Cleaver mother, then it's somehow worth making jokes about.

Why not compare a list of soap opera families - no wait those are deliberately dysfunction. Dramatic families? No, they deliberately go looking for dirt.

Oops, I nearly forgot the first rule of show biz. If you show people 'normal', they get bored and change the channel.

So if sex roles are completely distinct from gender, how is this a problem? So long as the messages in these movies are universal and not emblematic of a phallo-centric mindset, then it shouldn't matter if there were no women ever in those movies. I didn't notice any particular gynophobia in Buzz Lightyear, but maybe I just wasn't looking for it.

It could be that the male-centeredness is what gives them the G rating. Men seeing women doing anything could be seen as some form of subtle sexual innuendo whereas men (heterosexual at least) don't look at other men that way. I'm not saying it's difficult to make a G rated cartoon with strong female characters, but it's safer not too, especially when there are people out there that make pictures of Snow White and the Seven Dwarves gangbang.

The report says the disparity diminishes the importance of women in children's eyes, because men outnumber women 3 to 1 in films.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, some boys sre growing up with no contact with men (and positive male role models) until they reach their teens.
Guess that's not important.

What's important is that a bunch of dumb-ass movies have more men than women in them. (I'd use the rolley-eye icon here, but I'm sick of the sight of it in this forum)

Well why don't the people who want more female characters start writing some screenplays? It seems to me that would solve the problem with alot less whining.
It's just that easy...Just hit print and wait for the royalty checks...

Simonist']According to my backwards southern neighbors at our vacation property in Arkansas, AARP is actually the front of the Gay Agenda. Disney's just a sad pawn.
well its true, AARP members rarely have sex for procreation. sex without the primary motivation of procreation leads to unnatural sexual behavior (cuz its not fer its natural purpose). and we all know unnatural sexual behavior is just a somewhat archaic term for homosexuality.

therefore,
- old people = gay,
- aarp = the gay mafia,
- and last but not least the pink pistols are the armed wing of the grey panthers.

You're missing a big point though. All of the shows you list here are comedies. Comedies are intended to make people laugh. Successful jokes put people in unusual, unexpected, or exaggerated scenarios. The whole point of the family dynamics is comedies to show how wrong they are - and by subtle implication show how there is something wrong with families that aren't 'normal' - ie: that if a family doesn't have a wise workaholic father as its the indisputable head and a dutiful June Cleaver mother, then it's somehow worth making jokes about.

Why not compare a list of soap opera families - no wait those are deliberately dysfunction. Dramatic families? No, they deliberately go looking for dirt.

Oops, I nearly forgot the first rule of show biz. If you show people 'normal', they get bored and change the channel.

What and Disney movies aren't? Look at any movies and shows. Fathers are very rarely shown to be as together as mothers in movies, shows, etc. Fathers are usually the ones that are never around and who don't know what's going on. It's always the mother that understands her kids and actually helps them.

Women are sometimes shown as positive, but pretty much the only time when men are shown positively both are shown positively.

If the story calls for a female, hire a female. If you need a black guy, get a black guy. Don't include someeone just to appear tolerant, it'll most likely stick out like a sore thumb and degrade the film. Same with hiring someone for a job. Look at the qualifications, not their race or sex.