NationStates Jolt Archive

There are now 6,000 AMerican soldiers who have deserted their units because of the iraq war.

There are twenty known to be hiding in Canada, but it is suspected that their could be as many as 200 to 1,000 more hiding in Canada.

So what do you guys think?

The war can't be to moral and righteous if soldiers are leaving.

And to give soldiers credit, I am in my army, but if I had to go to Iraq i wouldn't go. However, if i was called to Afghanistan I would go.

Source?

CTV news, Canadian News.

They might have something in America, unsure.

Yeah, even being the anti-Iraq War guy that I am, I find this sort of hard to believe.

Campaign to give army deserters refuge persists
Updated Wed. Jun. 22 2005 11:13 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

NDP MP Bill Siksay is lending his support to a campaign aimed at allowing a growing number of American military deserters to find refuge in Canada.

According to the British Columbia MP, the issue resonates with a lot of Canadians.

For example, Siksay told CTV's Canada AM early Wednesday, Canadians are widely opposed to the prison abuse reported at the Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay prisons.

"They're (also) outraged at the failure to produce any weapons of mass destruction, since that was one of the main reasons for going into this war," he added.

So far, that support has translated into 15,000 signatures on a petition organized by the community-based War Resisters Support Campaign.

"There's huge public support for these war resisters in Canada," Siksay said.

Joshua Key is one of dozens of U.S. soldiers who fled their army to seek refuge in Canada. After an eight-month tour in Iraq, Key said he couldn't face a return trip.

When asked whether that's not just part of the job, Key told Canada AM his Iraq tour wasn't exactly what he enlisted for.

In June, 2005 this was done.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1119448188359_114857388/?hub=Canada

There are now 6,000 AMerican soldiers who have deserted their units because of the iraq war.

A small minority that the Army could have done without.


There are twenty known to be hiding in Canada, but it is suspected that their could be as many as 200 to 1,000 more hiding in Canada.

So...?

The war can't be to moral and righteous if soldiers are leaving.
Blahck! It was never moral or righteous, this doesn't highlight jack.

And to give soldiers credit, I am in my army, but if I had to go to Iraq i wouldn't go. However, if i was called to Afghanistan I would go.

To point out the obvious, your a canadian soldier [ I presume ] which has a much different upbringing/view then an American. If you want to betray your comrades, then thats your own skeleton in the closet.

What is so different about a Canadian soldier and an America soldier?

Canadian army personel oppose going to Iraq, and we are not going into Iraq, any time soon.

Here's (http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=11236&fcategory_desc=Veterans%20and%20Military%20Personel) what I turned up.

It's not exactly "new" news... and the article says it's a number supplied by the Pentagon. Why, would giving out information like that at a time when America is at war with an abstract noun constitute... treason?

What is so different about a Canadian soldier and an America soldier?


1) As a generalization, we're more fanatical.
2) Different cultures and upbringings effect your outlook, its moot to say your a "soldier" in relation to the actions of American soldiers - because you aren't one.


Canadian army personel oppose going to Iraq, and we are not going into Iraq, any time soon.

1) You didn't need a comma at the end.
2) I doubt that your non-involvement has anything to do with personell sentiment.

No, I have been speaking to other Canadian soldiers, and nearly 80% wouldn't go to Iraq.

Now along with myself, over 60% of who I talked to, around about 1,000 in all would go to Afghanistan.

And that is your personal opinion about if I an a soldier or not, but I am not really interested in your personal opinion.

I am stating facts, you are stating gas.

I can accept the six thousand number. But I would be curious to see how it compares to "peace-time" desertion rates. I mean, people are always deserting. They get in flaps, throw episcopis and bugger off.

I am sure that the peacetime rate is not zero, after all, and it's quite possible that the number of desertions that are can be attributed directly to iraq is not that significant.

No, I have been speaking to other Canadian soldiers, and nearly 80% wouldn't go to Iraq.

Now along with myself, over 60% of who I talked to, around about 1,000 in all would go to Afghanistan.

It's politicians who make the decision's to go or not to go to war, not soldiers - Personell opinion has nothing to do with non-involvement.

And that is your personal opinion about if I an a soldier or not, but I am not really interested in your personal opinion.

Then you shouldn't have included the bit about you being a soldier.



I am stating facts, you are stating gas.

*sniffle* Owwwwie!!!!!(:rolleyes:)

I am just saying that I am not interested in your personal opinion. You can say all you want, I am not going to lie and say i'm not a soldier.

Also, back to the politicians, I think it would be pretty hard for them to send soldiers anywhere the vast majority, I am saying like 80% or 90% do not want to go because it is the soldier with the gun and they have the little way of doing a coup de etate. However, that wouldn't happen in Canada or America.

There are now 6,000 AMerican soldiers who have deserted their units because of the iraq war.

There are twenty known to be hiding in Canada, but it is suspected that their could be as many as 200 to 1,000 more hiding in Canada.

So what do you guys think?

The war can't be to moral and righteous if soldiers are leaving.

And to give soldiers credit, I am in my army, but if I had to go to Iraq i wouldn't go. However, if i was called to Afghanistan I would go.

That is the most illogical thing I have ever heard. Soldiers have desserted during every war. Just because a few people are cowards or are against something doesn't make it immoral or unrighteous.

These soldiers of sullied the very honor of what it means to serve in our military. I hope they rot in hell.

These soldiers of sullied the very honor of what it means to serve in our military. I hope they rot in hell.


Amen.

There are now 6,000 AMerican soldiers who have deserted their units because of the iraq war.

There are twenty known to be hiding in Canada, but it is suspected that their could be as many as 200 to 1,000 more hiding in Canada.

So what do you guys think?

The war can't be to moral and righteous if soldiers are leaving.

And to give soldiers credit, I am in my army, but if I had to go to Iraq i wouldn't go. However, if i was called to Afghanistan I would go.
I wouldn't go to either war now. The Taliban did need to be toppled, but once we invaded Iraq, I would've deserted to Russia via Iran or something.

These soldiers of sullied the very honor of what it means to serve in our military. I hope they rot in hell.
:rolleyes:

It takes a lot of strength to make the decision to leave your unit, knowing full well what it means.

These soldiers of sullied the very honor of what it means to serve in our military. I hope they rot in hell.

and whats more they've betrayed there fellows in their unit, so amen.

I am just saying that I am not interested in your personal opinion. You can say all you want, I am not going to lie and say i'm not a soldier.

:rolleyes: No one asked you if you were a soldier, nor do I think you would've been asked; thus it wasn't a lie just something you added to your argument that had no basis as we're different countrys, militarys, and cultures.


Also, back to the politicians, I think it would be pretty hard for them to send soldiers anywhere the vast majority, I am saying like 80% or 90% do not want to go because it is the soldier with the gun and they have the little way of doing a coup de etate.

If they tried a rebellion, your government would just call for international support; which they would most likely get. It isn't "difficult" to get soldiers to go somewhere they dont want to go if you dish out the funds that arm, protect{armor}, feed, and house them.:rolleyes:

Hey, truth or not, all I can say is that anybody who deserts is a criminal, deserving the Death Penalty.

~ Romandeos.

These soldiers of sullied the very honor of what it means to serve in our military. I hope they rot in hell.
Can you define "the very honor of what it means to serve in (your) military"? What of the American veneration for the individual whose inherent moral sense prevents him from taking a course of action he knows to be wrong? When did the hero become the hierarchical structure the individual must needs rail against?

:rolleyes:

It takes a lot of strength to make the decision to leave your unit, knowing full well what it means.

Decision or not, they have a duty. Desertion should = treason and they should die.

Decision or not, they have a duty. Desertion should = treason and they should die.
Care to answer any of my three questions?

Decision or not, they have a duty. Desertion should = treason and they should die.
Sorry mate, that might work when you talk to a bunch of conservatives - not with me.

The only real and enduring duty a person has is to their own ideals. Not someone else's, and especially not an organisation that couldn't give any less of a shit about what you or I believe to be right.

What if the military told the soldier to shoot up a Kindergarten and blame it on terrorists? Would he have to fulfil his duty, or should he refuse?

No, I have been speaking to other Canadian soldiers, and nearly 80% wouldn't go to Iraq.

Now along with myself, over 60% of who I talked to, around about 1,000 in all would go to Afghanistan.

And that is your personal opinion about if I an a soldier or not, but I am not really interested in your personal opinion.

I am stating facts, you are stating gas.

Does that include if Canada's forces were mobilized for Iraq as part of a UN peacekeeping force?

They get iffy when you say the U.N or a peacekeeping mission.

Sorry mate, that might work when you talk to a bunch of conservatives - not with me.

I'm not even conservative. Nor am I a liberal either.

The only real and enduring duty a person has is to their own ideals. Not someone else's, and especially not an organisation that couldn't give any less of a shit about what you or I believe to be right.

I do know that if your in the military, you follow the legal orders of your commanders.

What if the military told the soldier to shoot up a Kindergarten and blame it on terrorists? Would he have to fulfil his duty, or should he refuse?

In this case yes.

I do know that if your in the military, you follow the legal orders of your commanders.
And this goes only for legality, as defined by some lawyers a long way away? In a time when things once considered to be illegal are getting done again thanks to some creative interpretation on the part of the White House?

Nothing German Soldiers did in WWII was actually illegal for them. The laws either didn't apply or didn't exist as such.
All they might have had was their own belief in what is right and what is wrong, and their own judgement. Thousands deserted and were killed. Today, they are considered "heroes" in Germany.

Why do soldiers bother deserting in this day and age? With DADT, all you have to do is kiss your bunkmate and you're out.

I'm not even conservative. Nor am I a liberal either.
I do know that if your in the military, you follow the legal orders of your commanders.
In this case yes.
So I'm guessing no, you won't be answering any of my three questions.

They get iffy when you say the U.N or a peacekeeping mission.

So it's really only as part of an 'occupation force'. What if the Iraq government requested aid from Canada?

I think the problem is a different one. Or even several different ones.



People who join up to the military (outside of times of 'the draft') should not be joining just "to get a degree", which seems to me to be the whole reason why that lady in the engineers/whatever who got lost, captured, and rescued from an Iraqi hospital ever joined in the first place... (For example, and only based on what I have heard reported, who knows whether there was an aggressive recruitment-drive, peer-pressure, dire financial straits if she tried to stay on civvie-street or any number of other things, all of which are problems in their own right.)

I have never been involved in the military. Mainly because my circumstances were never such that I would have found it preferable to enlist. And this would have been the modern British Army, an army that I thoroughly respect (Ok, so I would have loved to be a 'flyboy' in the RAF, and the Royal Navy only passed below my conceptual radar due to me being so far from the sea, so lets take the Army as a shortcut for "all branches of the military"...), even if it doesn't have all the expensive 'toys' that the US lot has...

(My Dad was in the army. That was in times of National Service, here in the UK, and he could well have gone to Korea in another roll of the 'dice of life', but his time was served on our own shores, so I can't even claim reflected glory from his "honorable combat record" or anything. But this was "the draft" anyway, does not apply to the argument I am posing.)

There's no such thing as 'risk-free soldiering', however. At the sharp end, and when push comes to shove, if your comrades cannot count on you, how are you going to count on your comrades? For a soldier to desert means that some part of the system of soldiering has broken down. This certainly might include the levels of command (the guys who asked the generals to arrange for troops to enter a country, requiring units to enter dangerous systems and possibily causing the death of individuals), but might it not as symptomatic of social circumstances that 'forced' these individuals into the military, even though they were not commited enough to follow official orders.

In Britain we have it too... Areas of near-poverty (or even actual poverty) where joining the Army is merely an escape, and we do also encourage Bright Young Things (TM) to join up in Officer capacities, but from my POV (distinctly slanted, when it comes to all things American, because only the really tall things about your culture stand out above the horizon, as I look out upon you from our shores) the US system has been doing a much worse job of ensuring that enlistees are suitable for the whole-kaboom of military life. And even [I]having to filter out the ones that shouldn't be there (whether you end up doing so or not) is a sad inditement upon the situations that pursuade said individuals that their only choice is the military.

Ok, so if everyone thought like I did, hardly anyone would be joining up at all, but please don't take from this response the message that "I don't think we should have armies", as this is not what I intend, but where there is a deserter, there's probably several times as many who should not have been enlisted but haven't the courage to break from the servitude they found themselves in. This is largely independant of the current policies/actions of the government in charge (though this might change the ratios, accordingly).

[And I don't advocate the death penalty for deserters, nor do I expect that the armed forces will be sent on utterly arbitrary (if not downright unneccessary or even morally wrong) killing sprees such as in the Kindergarten straw-man that was mentioned, but I see it as a symptom... And like excessive sweating might indicate either a fever or the house burning down around them, but you'd be better off using antibiotics than firehoses if there's no sign of smoke or flames in or immediately outside the room, the issue needs to be looked at properly.]

I do know that if your in the military, you follow the legal orders of your commanders.
In this case yes.

The jury at Nuremburg disagrees with you. Following orders is no excuse for an atrocity.

And this goes only for legality, as defined by some lawyers a long way away? In a time when things once considered to be illegal are getting done again thanks to some creative interpretation on the part of the White House?

I may not know that much about the military but what I do know about it is that there is a thing called the UCMJ. Not sure what it stands for but I have heard people talking about it.

Nothing German Soldiers did in WWII was actually illegal for them. The laws either didn't apply or didn't exist as such.

From my understanding, the German Army pretty much did nothing wrong. It was the SS there were doing the illegal activity.

All they might have had was their own belief in what is right and what is wrong, and their own judgement. Thousands deserted and were killed. Today, they are considered "heroes" in Germany.

I know nothing of German history nor military.

The jury at Nuremburg disagrees with you. Following orders is no excuse for an atrocity.

Notice I said legal orders!

Follow an illegal order and your just as guilty as the commander. That was what I got out of Nuremburg.

I may not know that much about the military but what I do know about it is that there is a thing called the UCMJ. Not sure what it stands for but I have heard people talking about it.
From my understanding, the German Army pretty much did nothing wrong. It was the SS there were doing the illegal activity.
I know nothing of German history nor military.
If I wasn't determined to get an answer, I'd feel hurt by your refusal to acknowledge my earlier questions.

No, I have been speaking to other Canadian soldiers, and nearly 80% wouldn't go to Iraq.

Now along with myself, over 60% of who I talked to, around about 1,000 in all would go to Afghanistan.

And that is your personal opinion about if I an a soldier or not, but I am not really interested in your personal opinion.

I am stating facts, you are stating gas.

What kind of pussy unit are you in?

I may not know that much about the military but what I do know about it is that there is a thing called the UCMJ. Not sure what it stands for but I have heard people talking about it.
It's the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and it could be changed at any time if the politicians choose to, I believe.
I'd be pretty certain that Ike didn't have waterboarding in mind when he wrote about the fair treatment of prisoners - but that's what I mean by creative interpretation.

From my understanding, the German Army pretty much did nothing wrong. It was the SS there were doing the illegal activity.
Oh, they did. Plenty of things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht

I know nothing of German history nor military.
You should have a look. It's a great example of patriotism and "sense of duty" taken too far, and it might do a lot to help you understand the way Germany in particular and Europe more generally acts.

If I wasn't determined to get an answer, I'd feel hurt by your refusal to acknowledge my earlier questions.

Then ask your questions again.

*tries to calm herself down*

So it's really only as part of an 'occupation force'. What if the Iraq government requested aid from Canada?

Maybe, it's 50/50.

Good on them.

Maybe, it's 50/50.

Okay, so it's basically if canada unilterally decides to join the US/UK against world opinion and for no reason. It's not a steadfast refusal to deploy to Iraq per se.

Given the sentiments I have heard from other canadians, I can understand the feeling. And it's really only a hypothetical for the foreseeable future anyway. People might feel different if, or when, such orders were actually given.

Then ask your questions again.
I don't see why. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10388207&postcount=21)

I don't see why. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10388207&postcount=21)

1) To serve your nation faithfully.

2) Doesn't matter when you are in the military

3) uh?

Okay, so it's basically if canada unilterally decides to join the US/UK against world opinion and for no reason. It's not a steadfast refusal to deploy to Iraq per se.

Given the sentiments I have heard from other canadians, I can understand the feeling. And it's really only a hypothetical for the foreseeable future anyway. People might feel different if, or when, such orders were actually given.

The only reason we didn't go in the first place was because it wasn't UN approved, plus Afganistan was keeping us busy. We even sent a team to scout the area out for possible deployment of a brigade or regiment size force to Iraq.

Decision or not, they have a duty. Desertion should = treason and they should die.

You say it SHOULD equal treason. Which tells me you know it doesn't.

You shouldn't make judgements when you're so testy. It clouds your reason. And makes you sound like a fascist.

I don't see why. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10388207&postcount=21)

Yah. I can answer that. When you join the millitary, you give up that individuality. Certainly, the millitary people in my family made it clear to me that when before you join it is made abundantly clear to you that you are subject to Queens General Order No. 2: And if and when told, you put on a blue suit, go wherever you are told and kill people. Your opinions don't enter into it.

If you can't accept that, then don't join.

You say it SHOULD equal treason. Which tells me you know it doesn't.

You shouldn't make judgements when you're so testy. It clouds your reason. And makes you sound like a fascist.

Yea I know :(

It is uncharacteristic of me. My horomones are out of wack.

The only reason we didn't go in the first place was because it wasn't UN approved, plus Afganistan was keeping us busy. We even sent a team to scout the area out for possible deployment of a brigade or regiment size force to Iraq.

I actually don't have a beef with canada for not going. As far as I can tell, most canadians were opposed, and it certianly wasn't part of their nato commitment, so it's no big deal, really.

(I have a beef with some canadians for their rhetoric about Iraq, but that's a seperate issue really).

You talking to me.

And to the other guy who said about what pussy unit am i in. We have 1/3 of are unit in Afghanistan.

3) uh?
I'll take two out of three.

1) So then, "the very honor of what it means to serve in our military -is- to serve our nation faithfully", right? All your words apart from the connecting 'is'. What I don't understand is, no matter how consciously or subconsciously you're aware of it, America has become a stratified, service-oriented consumer culture. Your reasoning seems recursive to me, as well.

2) So, in the case of an individual whose inherent moral sense prevents him from taking a course of action he knows to be wrong, who also happens to be in the military, it "doesn't matter" when that individual is in the military. People should be made to follow unethical or immoral orders expressly because they're in the military. I see what you're saying.

Night, people.

I'll take two out of three.

1) So then, "the very honor of what it means to serve in our military -is- to serve our nation faithfully", right? All your words apart from the connecting 'is'. What I don't understand is, no matter how consciously or subconsciously you're aware of it, America has become a stratified, service-oriented consumer culture. Your reasoning seems recursive to me, as well.

Not sure where your going with this.

2) So, in the case of an individual whose inherent moral sense prevents him from taking a course of action he knows to be wrong, who also happens to be in the military, it "doesn't matter" when that individual is in the military. People should be made to follow unethical or immoral orders expressly because they're in the military. I see what you're saying.

If an order is illegal then they are obligated by law to disobey it. The military should not follow illegal orders. If a soldier objects to an order given, it doesn't automatically make it illegal. Being shipped off to fight terroristism in Iraq is not an illegal order I believe.

Night, people.

Good Night :)

As an American soldier and combat veteran, I think they are cowards and should have their citizenship revoked if they fled to another country. The ones caught within the US should have the maximum punishment applied to a deserter in time of war.

These soldiers of sullied the very honor of what it means to serve in our military. I hope they rot in hell.
I would not go that far but if they were not up for the job they should have not signed up

Personly I dislike the war and if the us gov said I had to partake I would go tell them to fuck themselfs ... but once you agree to do a job follow through with it

I would not go that far but if they were not up for the job they should have not signed up

Personly I dislike the war and if the us gov said I had to partake I would go tell them to fuck themselfs ... but once you agree to do a job follow through with it

I agree 100%

As an American soldier and combat veteran, I think they are cowards and should have their citizenship revoked if they fled to another country. The ones caught within the US should have the maximum punishment applied to a deserter in time of war.

That might hold water if we were at a state of war, wouldn't it....

BTW, anyone know how you join the Canadian military?

As an American soldier and combat veteran, I think they are cowards and should have their citizenship revoked if they fled to another country. The ones caught within the US should have the maximum punishment applied to a deserter in time of war.
However is the war in Iraq a legal war? Or is it a war based on fraud? Until congress yanks the rug from bush soldiers in the USA are forced to go. You have a problem with the war...vote for different congresspeople!

20:1 When you go to war against your enemies and see chariotry1 and troops2 who outnumber you, do not be afraid of them, for the Lord your God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, is with you. 20:2 As you move forward for battle, the priest3 will approach and say to the soldiers,4 20:3 “Listen, Israel! Today you are moving forward to do battle with your enemies. Do not be fainthearted. Do not fear and tremble or be terrified because of them, 20:4 for the Lord your God goes with you to fight on your behalf against your enemies to give you victory.”5 20:5 Moreover, the officers are to say to the troops,6 “Who among you7 has built a new house and not dedicated8 it? He may go home, lest he die in battle and someone else9 dedicate it. 20:6 Or who among you has planted a vineyard and not benefited from it? He may go home, lest he die in battle and someone else benefit from it. 20:7 Or who among you10 has become engaged to a woman but has not married her? He may go home, lest he die in battle and someone else marry her.” 20:8 In addition, the officers are to say to the troops, “Who among you is afraid and fainthearted? He may go home so that he will not make his fellow soldier’s11 heart as fearful12 as his own.” 20:9 Then, when the officers have finished speaking,13 they must appoint unit commanders14 to lead the troops.

Not only are the deserters doing right by their morality, they're also doing good by the Lord! :p

I would not go that far but if they were not up for the job they should have not signed up

Personly I dislike the war and if the us gov said I had to partake I would go tell them to fuck themselfs ... but once you agree to do a job follow through with it

People quit jobs every day for a variety of reasons, including not liking their job description.
I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to change their minds. If they want to do the job, that's fine. If they see the reasons for going to war as dodgy, and continue to think for themselves, rather than being spoon-fed information, that's fine, too. I'll never understand the military mindset that you HAVE to do what you're told, all the time, and never think for yourself. What are those people fighting for? A civilization they don't actually belong in? They fight for freedoms for others that they are themselves denied? It's ridiculous.

People quit jobs every day for a variety of reasons, including not liking their job description.
I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to change their minds. If they want to do the job, that's fine. If they see the reasons for going to war as dodgy, and continue to think for themselves, rather than being spoon-fed information, that's fine, too. I'll never understand the military mindset that you HAVE to do what you're told, all the time, and never think for yourself. What are those people fighting for? A civilization they don't actually belong in? They fight for freedoms for others that they are themselves denied? It's ridiculous.
All that is reasons I would not sign that contract

Its more akin to contract work ... they sign agreement for a time and work commitment they are bound to uphold their end to the contract or suffer the penalties

I would absolutly not be willing to fufill that contract so I wont sign it
(I am not talking about individual orders but leaving the military is deffinatly breaking the terms of the contract ... personaly I think the tearms do and should to some extent include non agreement with ALL the commands but leaving goes beyond that)

There are now 6,000 AMerican soldiers who have deserted their units because of the iraq war.

There are twenty known to be hiding in Canada, but it is suspected that their could be as many as 200 to 1,000 more hiding in Canada.

So what do you guys think?

The war can't be to moral and righteous if soldiers are leaving.

And to give soldiers credit, I am in my army, but if I had to go to Iraq i wouldn't go. However, if i was called to Afghanistan I would go.
Since the US military is all volunteer now, I have no idea why anyone would become a deserter, unless they decided they made a mistake by enlisting. But even then, desertion is certainly no way to go.

Personally, I wouldn't want anyone fighting alongside me who would rather become a deserter than fulfill their comittment. I wouldn't be able to trust them. As far as I know, the desertion rate in the Army, at least, is lower now than it has been for any other period in our history.

When you sign on the dotted line, you are making a comittment for the period of time to which you agree. It's a legal contract and must be honored the same as a mortgage on a house or a non-disclosure agreement for an employer. Not only is it a matter of legal comittment, it's a matter of honor. It also means that you sign on to go where the military sends you, not just to those places you like.

BTW, anyone know how you join the Canadian military?

You probably just have to be a commonwealth citizen and qualified.

As an American soldier and combat veteran, I think they are cowards and should have their citizenship revoked if they fled to another country. The ones caught within the US should have the maximum punishment applied to a deserter in time of war.
I would prefer they be assigned to some onerous task for twenty years or so, like maybe policing up all the used condoms in the Bronx or something. :D

Since the US military is all volunteer now, I have no idea why anyone would become a deserter, unless they decided they made a mistake by enlisting. But even then, desertion is certainly no way to go.

Personally, I wouldn't want anyone fighting alongside me who would rather become a deserter than fulfill their comittment. I wouldn't be able to trust them. As far as I know, the desertion rate in the Army, at least, is lower now than it has been for any other period in our history.

When you sign on the dotted line, you are making a comittment for the period of time to which you agree. It's a legal contract and must be honored the same as a mortgage on a house or a non-disclosure agreement for an employer. Not only is it a matter of legal comittment, it's a matter of honor. It also means that you sign on to go where the military sends you, not just to those places you like.

This is scary you sound like me

Now if there was a draft in place my opinion would change

But not in this situation

This is scary you sound like me

Now if there was a draft in place my opinion would change

But not in this situation
I was exposed to the results of the Draft while a Company Commander in Vietnam. While the vast majority of those drafted served with honor, all too many of them made personal survival their only goal and simply hunkered down for their 12 months in an effort to avoid getting hurt. I'll take an all-volunteer force any day.

I was exposed to the results of the Draft while a Company Commander in Vietnam. While the vast majority of those drafted served with honor, all too many of them made personal survival their only goal and simply hunkered down for their 12 months in an effort to avoid getting hurt. I'll take an all-volunteer force any day.
Me as well

A war of defense while I dont like it would be justified in my opinion though (but we will save these arguements for another thread)

The just of my opinion in this matter is if you voulenteered you signed a contract

While that contract should include some leyway in individual orders (to a resonable extent) desertion is most deffinatly renegging on your contract

And there are penalties for said contract breakage

I would prefer they be assigned to some onerous task for twenty years or so, like maybe policing up all the used condoms in the Bronx or something. :D

They use condoms in the bronx?:D