NationStates Jolt Archive

Wounded Soldier Billed for Bloodied Body Armor
By ALLISON BARKER, AP

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (Feb. 8) - A former U.S. soldier injured in Iraq says he was forced to pay $700 for a blood-soaked body armor vest that was destroyed after medics removed it to treat shrapnel wounds to his arm

First Lt. William "Eddie" Rebrook IV, 25, had to leave the Army because of his injuries. But before he could be discharged last week, he had to scrounge up cash from his buddies to pay for the body armor or face not being discharged for months. Rebrook was billed because a supply officer failed to document that the vest had been destroyed more than a year ago as a biohazard.

"I last saw the (body armor) when it was pulled off my bleeding body while I was being evacuated in a helicopter," Rebrook told his hometown newspaper, The Charleston Gazette. "They took it off me and burned it."

Rebrook's story spurred action Tuesday from U.S. Sens. Robert C. Byrd and Jay Rockefeller, both West Virginia Democrats.

"I've been in touch with his family, and I've already written (Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld) to request that they immediately refund his money and review this horrendous policy," said Rockefeller, a member of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. "I'm shocked that he has been treated this way by our military."

Byrd questioned Gen. Peter Schoomaker, chief of staff of the Army, on Tuesday during a Senate Armed Services Committee budget hearing.

How can it be that the Defense Department, which is requesting $439 billion in this budget, has to resort to dunning a wounded soldier for $700 to replace a piece of body armor?" Byrd asked.

Schoomaker called Rebrook's story unusual and promised Byrd to "correct it if there's any truth to it."

Rockefeller said he first met Rebrook when he was an ROTC cadet at a Charleston high school and later nominated him to the U.S. Military Academy in West Point, N.Y., where he graduated with honors. Rebrook then spent four years on active duty, including six months in Iraq.

Rebrook's mother, Beckie Drumheler, said soldiers who serve their country and put their lives on the line deserve better. "My son loved the Army and was proud of serving his country. For any soldier to be treated like this is outrageous," she said.

Rebrook was standing in the turret of a Bradley Fighting Vehicle when a roadside bomb exploded Jan. 11, 2005. The explosion fractured his arm and severed an artery. His arm never completely recovered despite seven operations. He still has range-of- motion problems and pain.

Rebrook said he tried to get a battalion commander to sign a waiver for the Kevlar vest, but the officer declined. He was told he would have to supply statements from witnesses to verify the body armor was taken from him and burned.

His story has prompted donations from residents. A local radio station raised $700 within 90 minutes Tuesday, and one woman dropped off a $200 check by his mother's home.

"I thought that was pretty nice that people care," said Rebrook's stepfather, Charles Drumheler.

Rebrook's father, Ed Rebrook, a Charleston lawyer, said while the donations were appreciated, his son did not plan to accept them.


They always try to screw you over on a tecnicality here is a perfect example.

YAY for the US army!

And the follow up to that is that there is no story.
From the Houston Chronicle:

Sen. Robert C. Byrd, D-W.Va., questioned Gen. Peter Schoomaker, chief of staff of the Army, on Tuesday during a Senate Armed Services Committee budget hearing, and today an Army official said Rebrook would get refunds for the $510 vest and its contents, worth about $50.

Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, spokesman for the First Cavalry Division at Fort Hood, Texas, said there have been at least 21 similar cases. "In all of those cases, not one soldier was held accountable for items lost in combat," he said.

If they charge them for the medical procedures, maybe they'll stop getting hurt all the time.

...

Hey, it made sense when Limbaugh said it, didn't it?

And the follow up to that is that there is no story.
From the Houston Chronicle:
But he was held accountable and was charged more than it was worth. So you are saying the US army is full of shit on policy?

And the follow up to that is that there is no story.
From the Houston Chronicle:
How is there no story? The fact that a US senator had to get involved to get the poor guy's money back kinda indicates a pretty major screw-up on the Army's part there.

But he was held accountable and was charged more than it was worth. So you are saying the US army is full of shit on policy?

1) He wasn't charged more than it was worth. If you can find documentation of this, please share it. (Note: A rounded number from an AOL news story doesn't count.)

2) If the paperwork showed that it was lost while in his possession, and not destroyed, he is responsible for it. This error was corrected.

If they charge them for the medical procedures, maybe they'll stop getting hurt all the time.

...

Hey, it made sense when Limbaugh said it, didn't it?

LOL

1) He wasn't charged more than it was worth. If you can find documentation of this, please share it. (Note: A rounded number from an AOL news story doesn't count.
Even AOL knows $560 doesn't round to $700.

And the follow up to that is that there is no story.
From the Houston Chronicle:
It's not a non-story, it happened. It's bureaucracy, this shit happens. I wouldn't see it as "Army is teh evil" but rather Army is burecratic and as such this kind of shit does happen. Do you really, honestly think this would have had such a hunky dory resolution had not a senator gotten involved and all the publicity? No, bureaucracy does what it does. The fact that after all that attention the Army fixed it without hesitation (though there is the discrepancy between $700 and $560) does go to the not evil, just bureaucratic.

And the follow up to that is that there is no story.
From the Houston Chronicle:

Actually, the follow up shows that only when two United States Senators got involved was the situation rectified. But nice attempt.

Even AOL knows $560 doesn't round to $700.

Well, they know that the few thousand that my wife invested with them rounded to $912. :p

Yay bureaucracy!

Reminds me of stories my pa told me about his days in the service and the shit they pulled on him and his men.

Haha pwnt. :D

Paperwork in action.

How is there no story? The fact that a US senator had to get involved to get the poor guy's money back kinda indicates a pretty major screw-up on the Army's part there.
That's what Congressmen do. They intervene in a lot of government offices for constituents. Mostly, they expedite a resolution. In this case, I'm pretty certain that an Army JAG would have eventually found that the Army erred, but this way it was worked out more quickly.

Why didn't they charge him for the CFV?:p

But he was held accountable and was charged more than it was worth. So you are saying the US army is full of shit on policy?
Actually, pal, if you read the second paragraph of my quoted text, you'll find that NO solder out of the 21 that have been mistakenly charged for combat losses has been held accountable. I know that's asking a lot, though.

The policy in the Marine Corps was that if you lose it, you buy it. But we had a smart supply officer in my squadron. We wrote off every loss to combat. Hell, we were in a war zone, why not cut back on paperwork.

"Aaargh, I'm shot in the arm! Quick, take my body armour off, I can't afford to spill blood on it!"

If the terrorists don't get you, the army bureaucrats will.

If you've ever watched the movie version of MASH, you'll remember that guy sitting in the jeep when Hawkeye and Trapper went to Japan. His only line in the movie was "God Damn Army". Satire wouldn't be so funny if there wasn't some truth to it.

Now, the Lieutenant has another war story that he can tell at the bar.

Why are they charging the guy at all? I mean isn't putting his life on the line for his country enough?

Why are they charging the guy at all? I mean isn't putting his life on the line for his country enough?

I guess they have balance the defense budget somehow.

If you've ever watched the movie version of MASH, you'll remember that guy sitting in the jeep when Hawkeye and Trapper went to Japan. His only line in the movie was "God Damn Army". Satire wouldn't be so funny if there wasn't some truth to it.

Now, the Lieutenant has another war story that he can tell at the bar.
He was on Fox News this morning as a guest of the morning show.

He evidently had a whole year to turn in the loss paperwork, but never did (he was evidently quite healthy enough to go back to light duty, which means he could well fill out paperwork). Even when he was totally recovered, he still didn't bother to fill it out - he blames the supply officer.

Hey, a clue here. If you sign for equipment, it's not the supply officer's responsibility to fill out the paperwork for your equipment. You lose it when you're wounded - fine. But a year is enough to fill it out (unless you're crippled in some way, which he most definitely was not a year later).

After that, the supply officer and your commander will fill out a Statement of Charges.

Part of the reason they're so strict on body armor is that guys are selling it on EBay - there are 10 to 15 sets available on EBay every day - and CID is constantly looking for people who do this.

Unless you fill out the paperwork and say, "I was wounded and lost it in the line of duty", you're going to be paying for it.

Due to the stink he raised, he's not going to have to pay for it now - but it would have been easier to fill out the paperwork a long time ago - it's only one side of one sheet of paper.

Why are they charging the guy at all? I mean isn't putting his life on the line for his country enough?
It's all because his battalion has a future IRS auditor for a supply officer. Like I said, our SUPO was a great guy. The Marines let him write off anything that was lost in a combat area. So he did. Apparently this guy acts like the shortages come out of his own pocket.

One thing is for sure, the extra attention that he has received will not reflect favorably on his marks for initiative. A 'CONGRINT" is a Congressional Interest message and it usually results in everyone going to battle stations before the IG arrives. The CONGRINT combined with all the media attention is going to weigh heavily on the SUPO and Batt CO.

He was on Fox News this morning as a guest of the morning show.

He evidently had a whole year to turn in the loss paperwork, but never did (he was evidently quite healthy enough to go back to light duty, which means he could well fill out paperwork). Even when he was totally recovered, he still didn't bother to fill it out - he blames the supply officer.

Hey, a clue here. If you sign for equipment, it's not the supply officer's responsibility to fill out the paperwork for your equipment. You lose it when you're wounded - fine. But a year is enough to fill it out (unless you're crippled in some way, which he most definitely was not a year later).

After that, the supply officer and your commander will fill out a Statement of Charges.

Part of the reason they're so strict on body armor is that guys are selling it on EBay - there are 10 to 15 sets available on EBay every day - and CID is constantly looking for people who do this.

Unless you fill out the paperwork and say, "I was wounded and lost it in the line of duty", you're going to be paying for it.

Due to the stink he raised, he's not going to have to pay for it now - but it would have been easier to fill out the paperwork a long time ago - it's only one side of one sheet of paper.
I rarely possessed a piece of body armor, since I was in the air wing. I didn't realize it was so desirable. It's uncomfortable, hot, and heavy. Mine usually stood in a corner. The only exception was when we did Team Spirit. Then I used it to prop up the end of my cot that kept sinking in the mud.

I rarely possessed a piece of body armor, since I was in the air wing. I didn't realize it was so desirable. It's uncomfortable, hot, and heavy. Mine usually stood in a corner. The only exception was when we did Team Spirit. Then I used it to prop up the end of my cot that kept sinking in the mud.

Well, the IBA stuff is lighter (not that it's not eventually hot and heavy) than what we wore in the good old days.

16 pounds instead of 24. And it comes with hard plates that you put in the vest to stop rifle fire.

I've always wondered why pilots wore body armor - I figure that the aircraft is far more likely to be hit in a way that disassembles the whole thing, or that shreds something larger and mechanically vital - as opposed to putting some shrapnel through the pilot.

I might be wrong though. If you're flying low enough and releasing weapons on ground targets at short range, you might get peppered by ground fire.

I mean, if a 23mm shell comes into the cockpit and bursts, you're not likely to get much protection from an armor vest.

Well, the IBA stuff is lighter (not that it's not eventually hot and heavy) than what we wore in the good old days.

16 pounds instead of 24. And it comes with hard plates that you put in the vest to stop rifle fire.

I've always wondered why pilots wore body armor - I figure that the aircraft is far more likely to be hit in a way that disassembles the whole thing, or that shreds something larger and mechanically vital - as opposed to putting some shrapnel through the pilot.

I might be wrong though. If you're flying low enough and releasing weapons on ground targets at short range, you might get peppered by ground fire.

I mean, if a 23mm shell comes into the cockpit and bursts, you're not likely to get much protection from an armor vest.

I guess for say fighter pilots, body armour is pointless. For low flying helicopter pilots who might get hit by small arms, it's useful I guess.

I guess for say fighter pilots, body armour is pointless. For low flying helicopter pilots who might get hit by small arms, it's useful I guess.

I'm thinking that it gives the ground attack pilot some sense of comfort - then again, maybe not.

Well, the IBA stuff is lighter (not that it's not eventually hot and heavy) than what we wore in the good old days.

16 pounds instead of 24. And it comes with hard plates that you put in the vest to stop rifle fire.

I've always wondered why pilots wore body armor - I figure that the aircraft is far more likely to be hit in a way that disassembles the whole thing, or that shreds something larger and mechanically vital - as opposed to putting some shrapnel through the pilot.

I might be wrong though. If you're flying low enough and releasing weapons on ground targets at short range, you might get peppered by ground fire.

I mean, if a 23mm shell comes into the cockpit and bursts, you're not likely to get much protection from an armor vest.
Helo pilots are the only ones that I've ever seen wearing body armor. There isn't enough room for a tactical jet crewmember to put the stuff on. When it comes to unaimed or visually aimed gunfire, you just hope that it misses. Actually, you hope it all misses, however it's aimed. Nothing more exciting than jinking through a bunch of tracers.

We were always issued field gear for exercises because we were trying to be tactical and forward-deployed. I think it was really just a way to inventory the stuff.

I'm thinking that it gives the ground attack pilot some sense of comfort - then again, maybe not.

In an A-10 Warthog, no point. the entire cockpit is armoured.

Depends on the vehicle I guess. Helicopters which don't have much armour like the light ones might need to have a little extra protection for the pilot. Some US humvees aren't exactly armoured either.

Helo pilots are the only ones that I've ever seen wearing body armor. There isn't enough room for a tactical jet crewmember to put the stuff on. When it comes to unaimed or visually aimed gunfire, you just hope that it misses. Actually, you hope it all misses, however it's aimed. Nothing more exciting than jinking through a bunch of tracers.

We were always issued field gear for exercises because we were trying to be tactical and forward-deployed. I think it was really just a way to inventory the stuff.

Supply has a way of getting other people to sign for stuff, maintain stuff, and clean stuff.

That way they can sit back in the supply room and read Hustler.

I heard an interview with the soldier involved. He didn't blame the US military. He said that he forgot to dothe paperwork and the rest is bureaucracy. It appears to me that other people are now using his story for political gain.

I heard an interview with the soldier involved. He didn't blame the US military. He said that he forgot to dothe paperwork and the rest is bureaucracy. It appears to me that other people are now using his story for political gain.

I saw the same interview, and posted earlier in this thread.

He had a whole year to fill out the paperwork, and just didn't do it.

I saw the same interview, and posted earlier in this thread.

He had a whole year to fill out the paperwork, and just didn't do it.
I finally read your .sig. The corollary to that is "Thus, we can shop for programmer that aren't very good, but don't cost very much, either."

Shame on anyone that wants to use a spiral development model.

I finally read your .sig. The corollary to that is "Thus, we can shop for programmer that aren't very good, but don't cost very much, either."

Shame on anyone that wants to use a spiral development model.

Screw spiral. Agile is the only method that works.

Screw spiral. Agile is the only method that works.
Just a shade better than hacking. Although, I do believe that every software project has an 'Agile' phase, whether it's planned or not.

Just a shade better than hacking. Although, I do believe that every software project has an 'Agile' phase, whether it's planned or not.
Have you ever been in a true Agile shop? Many say they are, but most are hackers.

Have you ever been in a true Agile shop? Many say they are, but most are hackers.
No, in fact I don't do much software development at all. I finally got into a position that allows me to do real development on control and RF systems. I paid my dues as a software engineer at Lockheed. That was a strict 2167-style shop. But it deteriorated into hacking as deadlines approached and things didn't work. Shortly after I left, the division awarded itself a CMM level 3 status after having failed the level 2 eval.

No, in fact I don't do much software development at all. I finally got into a position that allows me to do real development on control and RF systems. I paid my dues as a software engineer at Lockheed. That was a strict 2167-style shop. But it deteriorated into hacking as deadlines approached and things didn't work. Shortly after I left, the division awarded itself a CMM level 3 status after having failed the level 2 eval.

I change hats between being a contract lawyer for my company and the hired gun they send to other companies to straighten out projects that are in disaster mode.

Haven't failed yet - and haven't had the people resort to hacking either.

I change hats between being a contract lawyer for my company and the hired gun they send to other companies to straighten out projects that are in disaster mode.

Haven't failed yet - and haven't had the people resort to hacking either.
I want to contract my services back to this company. They are pretty generous with their fee scale, plus I'd get double for this trip I'm about to go on. Maybe when the kids are out of college ...

I'm in the Navy, and I can totally relate to the kind of bullshit that happened to the Lt. The military does that kind of ridiculous crap all the time.

Why didn't they charge him for the CFV?:p
No one brave*enough to answer this aye?or stupid enough