NationStates Jolt Archive

From a recent exchange of email with a friend who was in the service and is in uni right now. I would be interested to hear your advice on this, one way or the other. IMHO, some professors think that learning is a secondary priority, and in order to get a good grade, you have to adopt the political persuasion of the professor - to fail to do so is to court failure. In my past experience, I just drop the class, or in some cases, go to the dean. I haven't been disappointed in my method, but I'm wondering what you would do.

As a thought exercise, if you're a left leaning person, imagine that you're at Baylor University, and the course you're required to take to get your degree is only taught by a tenured clone of Rush Limbaugh.

As alot of you know, i am a college student in what is referred to as "North-by-god-Carolina". well my flag incident was one situation, now i hve another-

A FEMALE instructor that i have is a little disturbing. complete with the butch hair, carhartt jeans, and the rhetoric that goes with it all. a friend of mine has her as well for a different class, and said the instructor came in this morning and asked the following question(s)-

"So, whats going on in the world today?? How many soldiers are dead?? and better yet, who cares???"

wow. i am not even gonna touch this one. i would drop her class, but i need it to graduate. so i just sit in there, do my work, and keep my mouth shut.

And here's some advice he got from some others:

Figure out a way to impress upon her the irony that she, as person who leads a decidedly “alternative lifestyle” would advocate hostility and discrimination towards another marginalized element of American society, ….the military.

Or open door her to one of the administrators and express outrage over her insensitivity in the matter. She is in effect, creating a “hostile environment” for you. That’s the stuff lawsuits are made of.

Fight fire with fire, Applestyle.

And this:

Well , it is unfortunate that you are in this position but I am certain many people are put in similar positions whether it is a much needed college course, asshole supervisors, or other scenarios.

She is in complete control of your grade. As bad as it may seem the best thing to do is to keep quiet, ride out the course, and do your best to get the best possible grade.

College professors have a great deal of latitude in grading students. Voicing your opinions could go a long way in damaging your chance at getting a fair grade.

I had several college professors that I hated but they were in control of my grade and they were the only ones to teach the classes I needed. I swallowed my pride and kept my mouth shut.

Maybe at the end of the course you will be lucky and get a teacher evaluation.

Being insulted and made uncomfortable is part of growing up. I deal with it every day, as an American, many people view me as if they had a stigma. They don't see me for who I really am.

As for your friend who was in the service, he should stand up to the teacher within the bounds of the institution. That is something I do. Be the counter balance to her, and if she lowers the grade, then there needs to be something done about it. So, instead of backing down and walking away, I would ride out the storm. Open mouth, or not.

What's a student to do? Get over yourself.

You're going to have teachers who you don't like, don't agree with, or cannot stand. Happens to the best of us. I had teachers flat out tell me I should drop out of college and go find a man to take care of me. So what? It's a few months of your life. Chill out, open your mind a bit, and see what you can learn from the situation. Even jackasses will usually have something to teach you.

If I know I'm going to have a problem with the teacher I'm going to drop the class. If I can get another teacher, that is...

A graduate degree from college such as a Baccalaureate shows two things:

1] That have proven academic knowledge in a variety of topics with focus on one or two.

2] That you have been able to put up with, and complete courses to the satisfaction of, the most obnoxious, demanding, and moronic people on the planet: college professors.

My advice to your friend: While 1 is nice, 2 is the most important lesson anyone can learn. Buck up, stick it through, and graduate Summa Cum Laude regardless of politics.

I'd give the same advice to a Liberal or Conservative and everywhere in between.

If I know I'm going to have a problem with the teacher I'm going to drop the class. If I can get another teacher, that is...

Uh huh ... going to take that attitude into the job market? Quit and find a new job because there's a boss you don't like?

Won't work for you very long.

Don't drop ... learn to survive it. It will make you a better person.

Personally I would ignore it just like I have done with all my bad professors.

They are out there, do good in the class and keep your head down

It would depend on the material being taught, what sort of class discussions occur (if any), how open the teacher is to being chalenged.

I had a very similar situation in high school (with reversed ideologies, of course) where the teacher even physically threatened me. But since it was an algebra class, he had no control over my final mark, as long as I did the work correctly. Mind you, an algebra class is not an appropriate forum for these kinds of debates (not that he cared), and since his supervisor agreed with him that I was the problem, that wasn't an option for me.

Anyway, I hope your friend finds a solution to her (his?) problem.

Turn up to you lecturers drunk. Then you wont mind it!

Uh huh ... going to take that attitude into the job market? Quit and find a new job because there's a boss you don't like?

Won't work for you very long.

Don't drop ... learn to survive it. It will make you a better person.
Yeah, and not only should you learn to survive it but you should learn how to accept the situation.

We all have to learn to get by in a world with a lot of people we dislike. You have to find a way to chill out about it, otherwise you'll give yourself a heart attack trying to rage against every person who thwarts you or pisses you off. You WILL encounter people who are both annoying and also powerful. You will have to deal with people who have authority over you and choose to use it in ways that are just plain irritating. Your attitude in these situations will be every bit as important as your actions.

I remember back in the day, having trouble with a certain political philosophy professor who was enamored with Mao and Maoism. The class was a general survey of political ideologies, not a class solely on Maoism.

I ended up keeping my mouth shut, and got a B. Ok. But my friend, who didn't think Mao was all that, was taking the same professor the next semester, so we got a Mao jacket and cap, and a copy of the Little Red Book, and did some research to find some harangues that had been translated into English.

My friend took the class, and dressed appropriately. It was a real hoot for all the other students, but the professor was unfazed - he really, really thought my friend was serious about liking Mao - didn't pick up that it was complete ridicule.

He got an A. He never turned in any of his papers, and he never showed up for his mid-term.

Go figure.

From a recent exchange of email with a friend who was in the service and is in uni right now. I would be interested to hear your advice on this, one way or the other. IMHO, some professors think that learning is a secondary priority, and in order to get a good grade, you have to adopt the political persuasion of the professor - to fail to do so is to court failure. In my past experience, I just drop the class, or in some cases, go to the dean. I haven't been disappointed in my method, but I'm wondering what you would do.
I would picket her class, grades be damned.

It would depend on the material being taught, what sort of class discussions occur (if any), how open the teacher is to being chalenged.

I had a very similar situation in high school (with reversed ideologies, of course) where the teacher even physically threatened me. But since it was an algebra class, he had no control over my final mark, as long as I did the work correctly. Mind you, an algebra class is not an appropriate forum for these kinds of debates (not that he cared), and since his supervisor agreed with him that I was the problem, that wasn't an option for me.

Anyway, I hope your friend finds a solution to her (his?) problem.
i agree, its hard to tell what should be done if we dont know what the class is about. perhaps this proffessor was trying to stir up debate?

The whole purpose of going to University or College is to be critical. Critical thinking is the lifeblood of a university environment. It is your job to sit there, take in what this lecturer is saying, and respond with "Why? Why does this person think this way? What is it that is influencing them, and do I agree? If I don't agree, why don't I?"

The idea is to ask as many questions as possible, and you must question everything. My University's motto is "Question every Angle", and you should do just that. You are critical of her position in regards to the military, but you should be critical of your friends, as you stated he was in the military. Im not sure how your college/university system works, but if we suspect a professor of fudging our marks up here, we can petition to have our marks reviewed or even remarked by a second person.

I would picket her class, grades be damned.

Better yet ... burn her embassy!

Oh come on, Eut. I know you find conspiracy in the term "liberal arts" and won't use shampoo that says "apply liberally" on the bottle, but suggesting that a Veteran of our Armed Forces deliberately fail out of college is completely out of left field.

Oh wait ... not left ... NOT LEFT ... I meant to say "other than right field" ... *runs and hides*

;)

I would picket her class, grades be damned.

Picketting classes is an appropriate response to asking questions?

Better yet ... burn her embassy!

Oh come on, Eut. I know you find conspiracy in the term "liberal arts" and won't use shampoo that says "apply liberally" on the bottle, but suggesting that a Veteran of our Armed Forces deliberately fail out of college is completely out of left field.

Oh wait ... not left ... NOT LEFT ... I meant to say "other than right field" ... *runs and hides*

;)
[ pelts Keru with small copies of the Constitution ] :p

It's not suggesting that anyone "fail." It's suggesting that some things are more important than compromising principle for a "grade." I would like to think that all my other grades would be sufficiently high to keep my ancient butt in school. :D

Picketting classes is an appropriate response to asking questions?
Picketing Army bases ( or the funerals of fallen soliders! ) is an appropriate response to a distaste for war? Get real.

Picketing Army bases ( or the funerals of fallen soliders! ) is an appropriate response to a distaste for war? Get real.

And the relevance of this is what, exactly?

The whole education system is bullshit from K to infinity, just get the fuck over it and finish the class.

And am I the only person who realizes we are juding this person on a single statement. Not two, not three, not even a description of the class, just a single statement taken and pasted out of context. The only other thing we have is a description of her as a dyke. Oh no, a college professor is a dyke who made a single statement about the troops posted out-of-context on a forum by some one known to be deceptive to insult people, release the hounds!

Well, here's the advice I gave:

If you decide to take this up the chain of command "creating a hostile learning environment" is the way to go. That stuff is serious. Which college do you go to again? PM me if you dont want to say outloud.

And remember, when writing a paper that has the potential to be rebutted... always lead with the rebuttal....and then follow it up with why the rebuttal is untrue. " (Describe the incident simply, briefly, just as you did here then) I understand that my earlier involvement in recovering a United States Flag from being burned during a protest on campus may make my letter seem somewhat suspect as simple troublemaking, however, I believe my report is fair. The comment was neither provoked nor solicited and clearly was not intended to provide fodder for debate.

I no longer feel comfortable or welcome in her class. I do not feel she is welcoming of me or honors my viewpoint as she does the opinion others in the class. She shows a callous lack of concern for the viewpoints of the hardships endured the men and women of the Armed Forces of the United States, many of whom attend classes on our campus, and the adversity they and their families face during these difficult times. Not to mention those families she offended by insinuating their deaths are not worth mourning. I am extremely discouraged. Her classroom is not a welcoming environment that fosters learning and honors the equality of all people."


Cc. president
vice president
campus legal
her boss
maybe a newspaper or two

You know... something like that. Sorry, I didnt spell check it.

Remember, no one would be allowed to get away with a statement like, "How many people were raped on campuses across the US today, Who Cares?"

My advice is take everything Kimchi has ever posted with a grain of salt and do your own research into the subject so as to get the whole story. In such cases where you can't do that, don't give a rat's ass about what he is saying.

The whole education system is bullshit from K to infinity, just get the fuck over it and finish the class.

And am I the only person who realizes we are juding this person on a single statement. Not two, not three, not even a description of the class, just a single statement taken and pasted out of context. The only other thing we have is a description of her as a dyke. Oh no, a college professor is a dyke who made a single statement about the troops posted out-of-context on a forum by some one known to be deceptive to insult people, release the hounds!


I guess you want me to post his other emails, where it's quite clear that the statement she made was a rhetorical question, and that it wasn't the first statement she made where she wished that all American soldiers would die in greater and greater numbers.

I guess you want me to post his other emails, where it's quite clear that the statement she made was a rhetorical question, and that it wasn't the first statement she made where she wished that all American soldiers would die in greater and greater numbers.
Well, it wouldn't make me believe you are any less than a partisan hack; however, it would help me to believe this is more than a slanderous, knee-jerk reaction topic designed to rile up anger you can eventually redirect at liberals in general.

And am I the only person who realizes we are juding this person on a single statement. Not two, not three, not even a description of the class, just a single statement taken and pasted out of context. The only other thing we have is a description of her as a dyke. Oh no, a college professor is a dyke who made a single statement about the troops posted out-of-context on a forum by some one known to be deceptive to insult people, release the hounds!

That's kinda what I was thinking. I really don't see that there is a problem here, after reading just that one statement from The Student.

And am I the only person who realizes we are juding this person on a single statement. Not two, not three, not even a description of the class, just a single statement taken and pasted out of context....
My opinion remains the same. Stick out.

And, yes, I did realise that.

From a recent exchange of email with a friend who was in the service and is in uni right now. I would be interested to hear your advice on this, one way or the other. IMHO, some professors think that learning is a secondary priority, and in order to get a good grade, you have to adopt the political persuasion of the professor - to fail to do so is to court failure. In my past experience, I just drop the class, or in some cases, go to the dean. I haven't been disappointed in my method, but I'm wondering what you would do.
Well, IF the teacher actually made such a statement, then she has issues.

However, it also appears that your friend has issues as well:

A FEMALE instructor that i have is a little disturbing. complete with the butch hair, carhartt jeans, and the rhetoric that goes with it all.

What the hell does that mean?

Also, it is apparent that the derogatory statement wasn't made directly to your friend, but to a friend of your friend:

a friend of mine has her as well for a different class, and said the instructor came in this morning and asked the following question(s)-

"So, whats going on in the world today?? How many soldiers are dead?? and better yet, who cares???"
So it appears that we are getting this not second hand from your friend but third hand from the friend of your friend.

And as far as advice from another friend of your friend:

"Figure out a way to impress upon her the irony that she, as person who leads a decidedly “alternative lifestyle” would advocate hostility and discrimination towards another marginalized element of American society, ….the military."
How ironic indeed. Fight discrimination with discrimination?

And bottom line, IF a "FEMALE" teacher has "butch hair", does that make her a lesbian? What does any perceived sexual orientation have to do with the alledged comment?

Since YOUR friend didn't actually hear the alledged comment, my advice to him would be to just let it go.

Well, here's the advice I gave:

If you decide to take this up the chain of command "creating a hostile learning environment" is the way to go. That stuff is serious. Which college do you go to again? PM me if you dont want to say outloud.

...

Remember, no one would be allowed to get away with a statement like, "How many people were raped on campuses across the US today, Who Cares?"

Perhaps coming from Canada I am a bit biassed, but "creating a hostile learning environment" wouldn't fly if any of my professors made a similar statement, even something like the last one. The professor is not directly assaulting the student, that is, not going up to him or her and trying to force a conversation on the topic. She is in fact expressing an opinion on world events, which may even be the topic of this class.

Such expression is perfectly alright in any Univeristy, and going up to the Dean, Vice-Deans, or any other administration would merely result in you wasting the time of someone who could have done something more important instead.

Newspapers may or may not ignore something like this, depending on how they think the readers will like/not like it. Written with the proper slant I'm sure some would take it, though I do wonder as to what effect.

Understand too, that I am not making these arguments without basis, as proof some excerpts from my university harassment policy (University of Toronto).

The Statement of Institutional Purpose also affirms that

these rights (of freedom of speech, academic freedom and freedom of research) are meaningless unless they entail the right to raise deeply disturbing questions and provocative challenges to the cherished beliefs of society at large and of the university itself.

I beliece this directly addresses the matter at hand. On the other side of things, what can raise trouble is something along the lines of the proffessor coming into class and saying, "How many niggers were shot to death today?" or something of similar intent. That would clearly fall under most university racial harassment policies. To be more specific, anything that falls under the below quote would be groups for what you were suggesting.

This principle is further explained in the University's Statement on Human Rights which states that the University

acts within its purview to prevent or remedy discrimination or harassment on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, marital status, family status, receipt of public assistance or record of offence.

The only mention of something even remotely like the example being considered harassment would come from the below.

According to the Human Rights Commission, offensive or threatening comments or behaviour which create a "poisoned environment" in the workplace or in the provision of services or accommodation, whether or not amounting to harassment, may violate the right to equal treatment without discrimination.

Which is seems to suggest a more personal assault than a general comment someone does not agree with.

Needless to say, this is a Canadian university, so policies may be somewhat different in the OP's school.

My advice to the OP though, deal with it. In most cases no one is even forcing you to go to class (I have been in no University classes where lectures are mandatory). If you really can't handle her, you can suck it up, study from the book and only show up for exams.

Sources: http://www.utoronto.ca/govcncl/pap/policies/harass.html

Needless to say, not spell checked, proofread, or in any way edited.

Jeesh. Thank God I reconsidered doing my Masters in an American university.
I'll just stick to my part of the planet thank you very much. A little too.... biased on all counts for my liking.

I guess you want me to post his other emails, where it's quite clear that the statement she made was a rhetorical question, and that it wasn't the first statement she made where she wished that all American soldiers would die in greater and greater numbers.
I think IF the teacher has stated that "she wished that all American soldiers would die in greater and greater numbers", then you would have posted that first and not this third hand comment from a friend of your friend?

I am inclined to agree with Teh_pantless_hero's comment on all of this.

Well, it wouldn't make me believe you are any less than a partisan hack; however, it would help me to believe this is more than a slanderous, knee-jerk reaction topic designed to rile up anger you can eventually redirect at liberals in general.
Like your reliable knee-jerk reaction to anything that might hint at liberals being wrong? ;)

What the hell does that mean?

Yeah, I have to admit that I wondered about that too...why the overwhelming emphasis that it is a FEMALE who is daring to offend a student? Why the emphasis on her appearance? It comes across as a case in which a student simply has a problem with a particular sort of FEMALE, and is angry that this FEMALE has a measure of authority over him.

I honestly haven't had any problems like that. One of my classes in first year, International Relations, was taught by a neo-con, and I did really well in it in spite of his political viewpoint and my essays disagreeing with that viewpoint. (I even handed in my essay late and he waived the mark-down :p) I've never been marked down because I disagree with the viewpoint of a particular lecturer or tutor before. (Well, not to my knowledge, but I certainly haven't noticed it).

Your friend's teacher is in bad form: that was a senseless comment anyway. If he suspects a problem, there *should* be somewhere at his university that he can go to and file an anonymous complaint. I know we can over here, but I understand the US system is somewhat different.

The appropriate response to being offended it to burn down a few embassies, and threated to behead people.

Judging by the way she dresses, he should torch the consulate for the Isle of Lesbos.

Like your reliable knee-jerk reaction to anything that might hint at liberals being wrong? ;)
More like my knee-jerk reaction to your repeated, half-baked attempts to slander liberals in general.

Like, the McCain vs Obama thing. You link McCain's site where he attacks Obama and you use it as some kind of thing to attack liberals. Then, lo and behold, Obama has the full fucknig exchange on his site and McCain looks like an asshat.

Then here, you provide "evidence" that a "liberal," supposedly gay college teacher hates our troops and thus that must obviously mean liberals are evil. Upon closer examination, you only have a single statement from here, acquired through a friend of a friend in addition to the insinuation she is gay by the way she cuts her hair. Then another reference by a friend of a friend of a friend.

You are so full of shit, I can't even think of a proper metaphor. And I like metaphors.

Yeah, I have to admit that I wondered about that too...why the overwhelming emphasis that it is a FEMALE who is daring to offend a student? Why the emphasis on her appearance? It comes across as a case in which a student simply has a problem with a particular sort of FEMALE, and is angry that this FEMALE has a measure of authority over him.

Had to put in his email unedited, so you would have some perspective.

I take it less as an indication of the gender, and more of an indication of the person's politics.

This is not, by far, the first remark of a similar nature by the professor - it's a consistent, daily, repeated rant that US soldiers should die, and the faster the better, because she doesn't like them.

Now, sit in the class with a visibly military haircut and appearance.

If I was a professor, and said that "blacks should die, and the faster the better," because I didn't like them, and you were a black student sitting in the class, and I made such remarks daily, would you consider that to be a hostile environment, or would you think that you should just grow up?

If I was a professor, and said that "liberals should die, and the faster the better (channeling Ann Coulter)" and you were a liberal at heart, and I made such remarks daily, would you consider that to be a hostile environment, or would you think that it's just part of getting a college eduction - learning how to take political hatred in the ass for your betterment.

From a recent exchange of email with a friend who was in the service and is in uni right now. I would be interested to hear your advice on this, one way or the other. IMHO, some professors think that learning is a secondary priority, and in order to get a good grade, you have to adopt the political persuasion of the professor - to fail to do so is to court failure. In my past experience, I just drop the class, or in some cases, go to the dean. I haven't been disappointed in my method, but I'm wondering what you would do.

As a thought exercise, if you're a left leaning person, imagine that you're at Baylor University, and the course you're required to take to get your degree is only taught by a tenured clone of Rush Limbaugh.

And here's some advice he got from some others:

And this:

Professors who use their position to further their political platform are abusing their position. Tell your friend to get a microcasette recorder and record the lectures. Wait until the grade is in and then turn the teacher in. If you changed the statement of the professor to "how many women were raped today? Better yet, who cares?", the answer would be obvious. The professor sought to make a political and offensive statement that would not have been heard if not for her position in the University. I would absolutely report her for the abuse of her position.

Professors who use their position to further their political platform are abusing their position. Tell your friend to get a microcasette recorder and record the lectures. Wait until the grade is in and then turn the teacher in. If you changed the statement of the professor to "how many women were raped today? Better yet, who cares?", the answer would be obvious. The professor sought to make a political and offensive statement that would not have been heard if not for her position in the University. I would absolutely report her for the abuse of her position.

Might be in danger of breaching copyright law in that scenario.

This is not, by far, the first remark of a similar nature by the professor - it's a consistent, daily, repeated rant that US soldiers should die, and the faster the better, because she doesn't like them.
Again, I am not going to call you a liar, but I do believe IF the above comment was true, you would have posted that rather than your original post, which at best is only third hand information.

Perhaps you are over reaching here a tad?

If I was a professor, and said that "liberals should die, and the faster the better (channeling Ann Coulter)" and you were a liberal at heart, and I made such remarks daily, would you consider that to be a hostile environment, or would you think that it's just part of getting a college eduction - learning how to take political hatred in the ass for your betterment.

For the better of course... since I've already dealt with things like that. Just sit through it, express your own opinions, and discover new views on the world. After one year of university, I changed from the Liberal Party to the NDP, with some support for the new minority conservative government, because of what I have learned through my professors.

Im not saying you should base your views on other people's, but rather use their views to form your own.

Again, I am not going to call you a liar, but I do believe IF the above comment was true, you would have posted that rather than your original post, which at best is only third hand information.

Perhaps you are over reaching here a tad?

Nope, these emails have been circulating about her since the start of the semester.

It's second-hand, not third-hand. And we don't have "her side".

Had to put in his email unedited, so you would have some perspective.

I take it less as an indication of the gender, and more of an indication of the person's politics.

This is not, by far, the first remark of a similar nature by the professor - it's a consistent, daily, repeated rant that US soldiers should die, and the faster the better, because she doesn't like them.

Now, sit in the class with a visibly military haircut and appearance.

If I was a professor, and said that "blacks should die, and the faster the better," because I didn't like them, and you were a black student sitting in the class, and I made such remarks daily, would you consider that to be a hostile environment, or would you think that you should just grow up?

If I was a professor, and said that "liberals should die, and the faster the better (channeling Ann Coulter)" and you were a liberal at heart, and I made such remarks daily, would you consider that to be a hostile environment, or would you think that it's just part of getting a college eduction - learning how to take political hatred in the ass for your betterment.
how does this person's physical appearance have anything to do with their politics? i think it shows enormous ignorance to assume that a female with a 'butch' haircut will automatically have particular political views or that everyone will know that your freind is an ex-serviceman from his appearance. i know several pacifists who have a 'military haircut and appearance'.

the opening post did not mention that this was a consistent occurrence and by including it so late in the argument without any direct quotes and only your paraphrasing it appears that you are clutching at straws to back up your argument.

Might be in danger of breaching copyright law in that scenario.

Um, how? You are permitted to tape record the classes in public universities and to use those recordings provided you do not (re)broadcast them for profit. You would have a really hard time proving that I am not allowed to collect evidence for my case.

As pointed out in this thread, we have to really on third-hand knowledge of these allegations. In the case of a recording, it become first-hand and definitely frees the University's hand and allows them to act. I don't like the flavor of this student's assessment of the teacher, but the student is not in a position of authority can and sometimes is abused, the teacher is.

There is a line that shouldn't be crossed. Suggesting that peoples' deaths, any peoples' deaths, are something that are not worth concern is beyond the pale.

the opening post did not mention that this was a consistent occurrence and by including it so late in the argument without any direct quotes and only your paraphrasing it appears that you are clutching at straws to back up your argument.
I believe the OP was asking an opinion, and displayed a scenario.
What's happening is, some members of the replying audience do not like the scenario.
They want it more politcally correct. And they seem to have a history with DK.

Um, how? You are permitted to tape record the classes in public universities and to use those recordings provided you do not (re)broadcast them for profit. You would have a really hard time proving that I am not allowed to collect evidence for my case.


Well, maybe in the States. I know in a lot European universities unless you have a physical disability that requires you to record the lectures, it would be tantamount to breaking copyright law.

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiments in general- I'm merely suggesting that that course of action might be a bit 'grey' as a response.

how does this person's physical appearance have anything to do with their politics? i think it shows enormous ignorance to assume that a female with a 'butch' haircut will automatically have particular political views or that everyone will know that your freind is an ex-serviceman from his appearance. i know several pacifists who have a 'military haircut and appearance'.

the opening post did not mention that this was a consistent occurrence and by including it so late in the argument without any direct quotes and only your paraphrasing it appears that you are clutching at straws to back up your argument.
My exact sentiments.

I believe the OP was asking an opinion, and displayed a scenario.
What's happening is, some members of the replying audience do not like the scenario.
They want it more politcally correct. And they seem to have a history with DK.
i realise that, but my initial reaction to the op was to think that this professor was making a contrary statement to stir up debate. i just wanted to point out the possibility of this misunderstanding, although this might be pointless as both sides seem to be indulging in a circular argument that involves pointless ideology bashing, and is influenced by a history (which you pointed out) between them.

From a recent exchange of email with a friend who was in the service and is in uni right now. I would be interested to hear your advice on this, one way or the other. IMHO, some professors think that learning is a secondary priority, and in order to get a good grade, you have to adopt the political persuasion of the professor - to fail to do so is to court failure. In my past experience, I just drop the class, or in some cases, go to the dean. I haven't been disappointed in my method, but I'm wondering what you would do.

As a thought exercise, if you're a left leaning person, imagine that you're at Baylor University, and the course you're required to take to get your degree is only taught by a tenured clone of Rush Limbaugh.


I'm of the mindset that college is EXACTLY the place where students should be exposed to a wide variety of viewpoints. That is a part of learning too. ad you find it every field.

Take economics and you'll have various professors who adhere to varying pet theories and expound upon them at length.

Take Computer science and you will invariably run into that one dweeb who thinks that Prolog was the greatest language ever developed and make you use it for things to which it is ill-suited. Or, worse yet, they have a bracket fetish and insist on Lisp.

Political editorialism? If it is germaine to the subject then by all means have Limbaughs AND Jesse Jackson proponents there forcing you to find something you agree with them on.

But your case doesn't state that this professor's viewpoints are germaine to the course. Indeed, he states that it has been possible to ignore it and just do the wor thus far. So these opinions may be unwanted by the student, but if they are teaching Calculus then it is not likely to affect the marking. No, all I hear is that the person finds a second-hand account of a statement made by someone who'se lifestyle they clearly disagree with to be offensive, and they want to whine about it.

To which my answer is: if you can't deal with people you disagree with having a position over you for four four months - you're gonna have a rough time in the job market.

Grow up, do the work, pass the course, and get on with your life.

Oh yes, and that first "suggestion?"

Figure out a way to impress upon her the irony that she, as person who leads a decidedly “alternative lifestyle” would advocate hostility and discrimination towards another marginalized element of American society, ….the military.


Oh yes. Military people are just as "marginalized" as homosexuals in society.

Can't we all remember all those ballots in '04 looking for constitutional ammendments banning the military from marrying?

And all we hear day in and day out is about those queers being "heros".... not like the rude things soldiers get called.

But hey, as you are sitting there getting your free education after your relaxed admission thanks to the GI Bill, and enjoying the subsidized medical care via the VA, sit there and stew about how all the damn homos got so much more from society than you did.

And yes I firmly believe that any serving soldier has more than earned all of these benefits - I'm just using them to make a point.


The point being that anyone who tries to say that society treats soldiers the way they treat homosexuals clearly NEEDS a better education.....

i realise that, but my initial reaction to the op was to think that this professor was making a contrary statement to stir up debate. i just wanted to point out the possibility of this misunderstanding, although this might be pointless as both sides seem to be indulging in a circular argument that involves pointless ideology bashing, and is influenced by a history (which you pointed out) between them.
Don't sweat it, I wasn't addressing just you.

Nevertheless, with the given scenario, this whole debatting thing about the OP's contents are rather moot. It was an opinion question. It just shows how creative and energized the Generalites of NS are, getting all wound up over something as trivial as this.

She sounds like me.
Everyday in school I said something like that.
And I cheered when the towers where bombed.

My opinions didn't affect the grades and the teatchers where always offended
but remained professional and abowe all polite.

It's whimpish to be afraid of the educations opinions and worse bow to it.

The schools have a duty to educate and sadly
a duty to censure and brainwash us with democratic values
but you can't have both.

If ever the later (politics in anyway) gets in the way of
the former( education)
then it's not worth having.

If society is not nice to be I rather go on welware and stop caring about my life which cannot be worth having
and that is exactly what happens here in sweden.

We must have freedrom of speach
and different opinions between students and ducators must be encouraged
and homogenous opinions toned down
in order to prevent segregation and
preserve our multicultural values.

Don't sweat it, I wasn't addressing just you.

Nevertheless, with the given scenario, this whole debatting thing about the OP's contents are rather moot. It was an opinion question. It just shows how creative and energized the Generalites of NS are, getting all wound up over something as trivial as this.
at least it's entertaining:D

What to do?
Allways respect the three R's: Rebel, Resist, Revolt:D

at least it's entertaining:D
That's why I keep coming back! :p

These sort of threads always confuse me.

How is actually possible for a lecturer's opinions and possible relationship, be it good or bad, with the student to actually affect the grades? don't american colleges/unis have blind marking and external invigilators and auditors?

yes i could understand how such stuff might make the lectures not terribly enjoyable which may have a impact on your motivation but a tthe end of the day if you do the work and do the exams how can thier bias affect you?

These sort of threads always confuse me.

How is actually possible for a lecturer's opinions and possible relationship, be it good or bad, with the student to actually affect the grades? don't american colleges/unis have blind marking and external invigilators and auditors?

yes i could understand how such stuff might make the lectures not terribly enjoyable which may have a impact on your motivation but a tthe end of the day if you do the work and do the exams how can thier bias affect you?

I always wondered that as well.

You are permitted to tape record the classes in public universities

Wanted to add to that "with the permission of the professor".

Wanted to add to that "with the permission of the professor".
Depends on the school.

Some universities grant that right to students (as long as the recording is not for publication, i.e., you're not going to post it somewhere and make money, or write a book from it).

Depends on the school.

Ah! Yes ... add that as well.

Depends on the school.

Some universities grant that right to students (as long as the recording is not for publication, i.e., you're not going to post it somewhere and make money, or write a book from it).
Its best to err on the side of caution at any rate, the internet probably isn't the best place to get concrete info on your University copyright laws :p

Depends on the school.

Some universities grant that right to students (as long as the recording is not for publication, i.e., you're not going to post it somewhere and make money, or write a book from it).

At public universities, it is generally allowed. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any university in the big ten that required you to get the permission of the professor. Either way, I don't think you'd need it in this case, since the professor doesn't have to give you permission to gather evidence against them.

A graduate degree from college such as a Baccalaureate shows two things:

1] That have proven academic knowledge in a variety of topics with focus on one or two.

2] That you have been able to put up with, and complete courses to the satisfaction of, the most obnoxious, demanding, and moronic people on the planet: college professors.

My advice to your friend: While 1 is nice, 2 is the most important lesson anyone can learn. Buck up, stick it through, and graduate Summa Cum Laude regardless of politics.

I'd give the same advice to a Liberal or Conservative and everywhere in between. I have to completely and utterly agree with you on this one...though I'd like to add to your #2 'college professors and fellow students'. Not all of them of course...but some of the shit you need to learn to put up with is going to come from the mouths of those sitting next to you as well. Pick your battles. In school, they don't tend to be worth pursuing.

I have to completely and utterly agree with you on this one...though I'd like to add to your #2 'college professors and fellow students'. Not all of them of course...but some of the shit you need to learn to put up with is going to come from the mouths of those sitting next to you as well. Pick your battles. In school, they don't tend to be worth pursuing.

I think it depends on whether or not your willing to face the consequences of said battle. I would be. I think people who abuse their positions need to be dragged behind cars. Ok, maybe not dragged, but they definitely should be required to discontinue abusing their position.

In terms of the topic itself...a professor broadcasting a belief that is extremely offensive to you, and perhaps supported by others in your class...I don't know what you should do. I've been in a situation where a professor's comments about the repression of natives actually incited incredible and open animosity towards all of us natives in the class, and THAT was pretty damn scary. As long as I wasn't required to agree with views that I found abhorrent, I would probably let it go...ay...but that's a tough one. If the prof was espousing racist, misogynist, etc views constantly, I might ask them in private to cut it out. I certainly wouldn't call them out during class. But I would be distinctly uncomfortable challenging the prof on this, yes, for a fear of my grades. I'd have to weigh the following: which would make me more uncomfortable? Listening to hate, or speaking up about it?

I think it depends on whether or not your willing to face the consequences of said battle. I would be. I think people who abuse their positions need to be dragged behind cars. Ok, maybe not dragged, but they definitely should be required to discontinue abusing their position.
I don't see it as an 'abuse of position', but rather, something that should be kept separate from the course. Meaning, if in private, I sat with this prof over beer, and heard them say some objectionable things, that is one thing. Hearing it in class is another. In my experience, University students are extremely prickly and confrontational. They don't usually 'let things go'. BUT...if many of the students simply agree with the prof, then yes, it can be very hard to call them out on their behaviour. Still...education is not meant to be hand-fed to you, nor are you supposed to be comfortable all the time. I've been in courses where the conservative view was pushed to an extreme point...I hunkered down and got my work done. I hated the course, but I DID learn.

As a thought exercise, if you're a left leaning person, imagine that you're at Baylor University, and the course you're required to take to get your degree is only taught by a tenured clone of Rush Limbaugh.

What has being left-wing got to do with anything? This teacher, while vaguely political, does not sound particularly left-wing.

I don't see it as an 'abuse of position', but rather, something that should be kept separate from the course. Meaning, if in private, I sat with this prof over beer, and heard them say some objectionable things, that is one thing. Hearing it in class is another. In my experience, University students are extremely prickly and confrontational. They don't usually 'let things go'. BUT...if many of the students simply agree with the prof, then yes, it can be very hard to call them out on their behaviour. Still...education is not meant to be hand-fed to you, nor are you supposed to be comfortable all the time. I've been in courses where the conservative view was pushed to an extreme point...I hunkered down and got my work done. I hated the course, but I DID learn.

I think they have every right to say such things to me in a personal conversation. This professor used their class as a platform for political and, in my opinion, offensive comments. There is a grave difference. I definitely think that if you use your job or career to launch your ideas into the spotlight that you should be prepared for the reaction to those ideas to affect your job or career. If I'm a racist and a singer, for example, and I get in front of a group of people and tell them how native americans are inferior, I would expect that to affect my album sales no matter how much people like my music. This is no different. She used her job. The consequences of the action should affect her job.

My advice to him would be, grow up and get over yourself.

People will personally dislike you in life. They can be colleagues, subordinates, superiors, friends of friends, probably half the partners you have, and a fair number of random people you only ever have to deal with once. Not only that, but your actions through life will probably piss off a whole bunch of people who unknown to you, will bitch about you.

And they can be teachers too. Nothing surprising there. Just try to meet the course requirements.