NationStates Jolt Archive

So, Harper was sworn in this morning as the new Prime Minister of Canada, and announced his cabinet.

And after the hard-fought campaign, it is nice to see that he is making every effort to differentiate his party from the previous.

I mean, after running a campaign predicated on coasting on the accusations against the other party of being corrupt to the core, the best response surely is to appoint Vic Toews and his elections spending conviction to head up Justice right?

And after accusing the Liberal's of using bribery to convince Belinda to swap parties as evidenced by her being given a Cabinet post, how do they reward former Liberal David Emerson who just crossed the floor to their side?

Well - make him Minister of International Trade of course!


Complaints about military procurement under the Liberals? Appoint a retired officer who went straight from his position IN the army doing procurement to a position selling to the military for the people he had been buying from! Shall we start the betting pool on how long until the first complaint of favouritism and/or conflict of interest arrives in the mail?



Of course, there was ONE appointment that I found most amusing of all. Stockwell Day got handed Public Safety.

He'll be able to break that old wetsuit out of retirement just in time for this summer's water safety ads.... lol.


So it's Minority Power - The Sequel, on now at a parliament near you (well, near me anyway). Wonder how it will stack to the original?

What a depressing thing to return from Cuba to. Harper as PM:(

Damnit, I forgot about this shit... -.-; damn, am I glad I had some fun this weekend; what a horrible thing to wake up to on Monday morning...

Welcome Prime Minister Harper. I like saying that if only to rub the Liberals nose in it. You pissed on the Canadian Public once too often and now you have to sit in opposition.Hope you like it, you're going to be there awhile. The fact that a Liberal crossed the floor to the Conservatives is sweet, suck on that Belinda, you Liberal Whore:sniper: . Sure you got elected but what good is going to do you. You are going to quickly become another face in the crowd. The only attention you are going to get is to show your tits.Go away please.

Sounds good.

I mean, they couldn't possibly f--- this up as bad as the last 13 years, right? They would have to add anthrax to the water or something.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

Damnit, I forgot about this shit... -.-; damn, am I glad I had some fun this weekend; what a horrible thing to wake up to on Monday morning...

You think you've got it bad, imagine his wife. She gets to see that every morning.

Welcome Prime Minister Harper. I like saying that if only to rub the Liberals nose in it. You pissed on the Canadian Public once too often and now you have to sit in opposition.Hope you like it, you're going to be there awhile. The fact that a Liberal crossed the floor to the Conservatives is sweet, suck on that Belinda, you Liberal Whore. Sure you got elected but what good is going to serve. You are going to quickly become another face in the crowd. The only attention you are going to get is to show your tits.

Perhaps you could reserve your criticisms of public figures to statements that do not border on misogyny.

why am i not surprised that the die-hard liberals are as bad at losing in Canada as they are in America?

While we're at it, let us review the comments from the Conservative party when Belinda crossed the floor shall we?


"The governing party is corrupt, it is in the process of ruining the nation's finances with the biggest vote-buying spree in Canadian history ... and it's doing tremendous damage to the cause of federalism in Quebec."
--Stephen Harper

"This is just another action, another moment, that breeds cynicism of electors."
--New Brunswick Conservative Premier Bernard Lord

"She sort of defined herself as something of a dipstick, an attractive one, but still a dipstick, with what she's done here today. She is, at the end of the day, going to paint herself as something of a joke."
--Ontario Conservative Bob Runciman

"I think it shows there are two kinds of people in public life -- people with principle and people like Belinda Stronach,"
--B.C. Conservative MP James Moore

"It has everything to do with the fact she was offered a plum job and Paul Martin is offering every bribe he can to cling on to power,"
--Ontario Conservative MP Pierre Poilievre

"To me, what it is, it's a little rich girl basically whoring herself out to the Liberals,"
--Conservative member of the Alberta legislature Tony Abbott


Anyone think that they'll say the same sorts of things about Mr. Emerson?




Me neither.

I reserve the right to to criticize Belinda Stronach any way i feel like it. The fact that she sold her political soul to the governing party for a shot at power demonstrates to me she rightfully deserves the title''political whore'', whether she is one in real life i don't know or care..but she is a Liberal so who knows.

why am i not surprised that the die-hard liberals are as bad at losing in Canada as they are in America?

Bad at losing?

I'm not angry or upset, indeed I find this amusing as hell!


By these appointments (including one unelected person who they will be required to find a by-election for), they have taken the air out of a lot of their last election platform - and they did so while in an unsolidified minority position. It WILL be used to nullify some of their ammo for the next round.


The Conservatives were in a great position for the past two elections: As a new party they could criticise the Liberal record with no associated baggage of their own, and still all they could manage was a very soft minority win. Well, that advantage is going to start to dissipate now, and they have to back up their rhetoric with actions.


And it will be interesting to see how they go about it with this group of Ministers.

Bad at losing?

I'm not angry or upset, indeed I find this amusing as hell!


By these appointments (including one unelected person who they will be required to find a by-election for), they have taken the air out of a lot of their last election platform - and they did so while in an unsolidified minority position. It WILL be used to nullify some of their ammo for the next round.


The Conservatives were in a great position for the past two elections: As a new party they could criticise the Liberal record with no associated baggage of their own, and still all they could manage was a very soft minority win. Well, that advantage is going to start to dissipate now, and they have to back up their rhetoric with actions.


And it will be interesting to see how they go about it with this group of Ministers.

Me, I'm waiting to see what country Stephistan will try to apply for asylum in.

Since it won't be the US, where do you think Steph will apply?

ooh - Steph the Refugee From Canada...

Me, I'm waiting to see what country Stephistan will try to apply for asylum in.

Since it won't be the US, where do you think Steph will apply?

ooh - Steph the Refugee From Canada...



Funny - I don't recall reading any posts by Stephistan promising to pull a Baldwin and threaten to run away if she didn't get what she wanted. Indeed, she strikes me as an ardent nationalist who would never begin to entertain such a thought.


On the other hand, YOUR obvious fixation with her seems rather interesting. She must really have got under your skin for you to keep making posts entirely about what you assume her reaction will be to things.

And I'd bet that amuses her as much is it would me if I collected my own little puppy-troll.

Funny - I don't recall reading any posts by Stephistan promising to pull a Baldwin and threaten to run away if she didn't get what she wanted. Indeed, she strikes me as an ardent nationalist who would never begin to entertain such a thought.


On the other hand, YOUR obvious fixation with her seems rather interesting. She must really have got under your skin for you to keep making posts entirely about what you assume her reaction will be to things.

And I'd bet that amuses her as much is it would me if I collected my own little puppy-troll.

hee-hee. deep kimchi likes stephistan!!
*runs away giggling like a schoolgirl*

And after accusing the Liberal's of using bribery to convince Belinda to swap parties as evidenced by her being given a Cabinet post, how do they reward former Liberal David Emerson who just crossed the floor to their side?

Well - make him Minister of International Trade of course!

AUUGGHHHHH !!!

I couldn't BELIEVE this when I heard it this morning. Curse David Emmerson - He's my MP, though I have a clear concioence since I didn't vote for him. But I'm being represented by a sleazy Conservative now. Gross.

Funny - I don't recall reading any posts by Stephistan promising to pull a Baldwin and threaten to run away if she didn't get what she wanted. Indeed, she strikes me as an ardent nationalist who would never begin to entertain such a thought.


On the other hand, YOUR obvious fixation with her seems rather interesting. She must really have got under your skin for you to keep making posts entirely about what you assume her reaction will be to things.

And I'd bet that amuses her as much is it would me if I collected my own little puppy-troll.


I was considering her vehement opposition, and end-of-the-world stance on the idea that anyone other than the Liberals being elected to power.

I rather enjoy seeing Canadians rub it in her face.

I was considering her vehement opposition, and end-of-the-world stance on the idea that anyone other than the Liberals being elected to power.

I rather enjoy seeing Canadians rub it in her face.


That's nice.


Except that she didn't start this thread, nor has she posted to it that I can see.

So how about you save your childish little vendatta with her for somewhere slightly more relevant, you know - like maybe somewhere that you can have it out directly with her in dialogue instead of trying to hijack my thread with it.


Thanks.

Since my bloody MP just crossed the floor, everyone has to be nice to me today.

Since my bloody MP just crossed the floor, everyone has to be nice to me today.

Bet you wouldn't be upset if your MP had been a Conservative crossing to the Liberals or NDP...

While we're at it, let us review the comments from the Conservative party when Belinda crossed the floor shall we?

Aww, you forgot the most important one:

"At least dogs are loyal" ~Brokenhearted Beau And NS MP, Peter MacKay

Crossing the floor before the House even sits seems pretty low to me. At least Belinda had the whole budget thing as an excuse. This time it is an unabashed power-grab. He is lucky we do not have a recall.

I am glad that this is a minority, I figure that the Cons will not do anything too terrible to the country before the next election in a few months. I am glad that Stocky got Public Safety. I plan on working at FAC someday, and I think MacKay is a better choice (Nova Scotian solidarity and all).

It will be interesting to see how our new Minister of Environment does. The party does not exactly have a reputation for being environmentally conservative, but one can always hope...

It will be interesting to see how our new Minister of Environment does. The party does not exactly have a reputation for being environmentally conservative, but one can always hope...

She will do fine, she is after all the sexiest female member of Parliament.

...I am glad that Stocky got Public Safety....


I wonder if his grandmother is?

"I would expect the support of the party no matter what happens... even if I were to kill my grandmother with an axe."
--Stockwell Day.


But at least he didn't get Education...

"God's law is clear: standards of education are not set by government, but by God, the Bible, the home and the school."
--Stockwell Day

Or Health..

"Women who become pregnant through rape or incest should not qualify for government-funded abortions unless their pregnancy is life-threatening."
--Stockwell Day

Or anything related to science...

"As a Christian, I acknowledge the lordship of Jesus Christ over the whole universe ... I believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God and every word in it, cover to cover, is true."
--Stockwell Day

Or... pretty much anything for that matter. Mind you, he's one of the first Ministers I expect who will make a verbal gaffe or two in the upcoming months.

Hate to break it to you, but convincing other party members to cross the floor when forming a minority government is a time-honoured parliamentary tradition. Name calling is a part of the parliamentary game. As for Belinda Stronach, she was competing for Conservative party leadership not long before crossing the floor, during a critical vote where one or two votes mattered. That's a difference.

Now seriously folks, how could someone in good conscience vote for the Liberal party yet again... we live in a multi-party system, vote for the NDP if you can't stomach Harper. The only real democratic practice we have, is our one vote we get to throw out the bozos who keep screwing things up. Of course if you want to use your vote to endorse it...

You think you've got it bad, imagine his wife. She gets to see that every morning.

Good enough to have two kids :)

I placed my ballot in the box with the same thought I now have in my head:

"Don't blame me, I voted Green."

I placed my ballot in the box with the same thought I now have in my head:

"Don't blame me, I voted Green."

I have to say, Harris got a bum deal on the televised debate. Not that I voted for them, but they had someone riding in every jurisdiction, and they were excluded from the televised debates anyway. With over 4% of the national vote, he should have been entitled to his moment of CBC spotlight. Now who voted for the moderators...

What I find sorta funny is that the order of canada ceremony seems to be more informative then the swearing in a of cabinet ministers.

I won't go into great detaill but it feels weird. I feel old. I 'm guessing it is a face peole will have to get use to or probably around a year. The first budget shold be interesting.. and will there be that 1% GST drop, I like my 25 or howeer many dolllars a year.. I would have to spend 25000$ to get that much money in savings...

I wonder if his grandmother is?

"I would expect the support of the party no matter what happens... even if I were to kill my grandmother with an axe."
--Stockwell Day.


But at least he didn't get Education...

"God's law is clear: standards of education are not set by government, but by God, the Bible, the home and the school."
--Stockwell Day

Or Health..

"Women who become pregnant through rape or incest should not qualify for government-funded abortions unless their pregnancy is life-threatening."
--Stockwell Day

Or anything related to science...

"As a Christian, I acknowledge the lordship of Jesus Christ over the whole universe ... I believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God and every word in it, cover to cover, is true."
--Stockwell Day

Or... pretty much anything for that matter. Mind you, he's one of the first Ministers I expect who will make a verbal gaffe or two in the upcoming months.

I pretty much think Stockwell Day is a danger to society, AND his own party. Personally, I voted NDP, but I for one am happy to see a conservative minority instead of the liberals. However, I can stomach the conservative party only so long as they're moderate, fiscal conservatives; not social conservative fundamentalist jesusfreaks psychotic homophobe racist sexist pigs like Stockwell.

I'm disappointed with Mr.Harper for choosing him. He worked hard to project the image of a moderate, serious, conservative party. People like Stockwell Day will make them appear like morons the minute they open their mouths. I can only hope there aren't too many of those in Mr.Harper's cabinet.

Bet you wouldn't be upset if your MP had been a Conservative crossing to the Liberals or NDP...
No anyone that crosses the floor two weeks after an election to accept a cabinet post is a sleazeball. I wouldn't be pleased with anyone who did the same - it is a totall betrayal, that isn't even based on an important policy issue.
Emmerson must have been planning this for ages - he just knew that he wouldn't get elected in Vancouver Kingsway if he ran for the Conservatives.
Shame on him.

I reserve the right to to criticize Belinda Stronach any way i feel like it. The fact that she sold her political soul to the governing party for a shot at power demonstrates to me she rightfully deserves the title''political whore'', whether she is one in real life i don't know or care..but she is a Liberal so who knows.So, how do you feel about Mr. Emerson? 2 weeks after being elected as a Liberal, in a riding that hasn't elected a conservative since 1958 - where the Conservative party got a whole 19% of the vote, he jumps to the Conservative party before spending even one day in opposition.

At least in Newmarket-Aurora, there was a mere 700 vote difference between the Libs and the CPC in 2004 - much, much less than 1% of the popular vote. In Emerson's riding, the Libs had 22% more of the popular vote than the CPC.

Do you really want to talk about which of these people were more opportunist? Which one was more of a 'political whore'?

No anyone that crosses the floor two weeks after an election to accept a cabinet post is a sleazeball. I wouldn't be pleased with anyone who did the same - it is a totall betrayal, that isn't even based on an important policy issue.
Emmerson must have been planning this for ages - he just knew that he wouldn't get elected in Vancouver Kingsway if he ran for the Conservatives.
Shame on him.Rumour has it that Harper approached him, not Emerson approaching Harper (not that that is any excuse). Apparently, Harper wanted an MP from one of the big cities (Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, etc), and as a blue Grit, Emerson fit the bill.

This theory is backed up by the appointment of the un-elected Michel Fortier (who wasn't even a electoral candidate!) who was named to Minister of Public Works portfolio by way of a quick elevation to a Senate seat. Fortier is a Harper staff member from...Montreal.

The CPC seem determined to get representation in the big cities.

Yay Conservative government! :cool:

Even though I think Emerson's move to the CPC was a terrible move (I mean, come on, the CPC claimed they would clean things up, but on the first frigging day they give a floor-crosser a cabinet seat, and hand a Senate patronage appointment (and the Public Works portfolio) to a party insider from Quebec. Starting to look like a lot of political "same old, same old" to me. They could still have had Emerson sit as an Independent, declare his intention to go Conservative, and then run a by-election -- you know, all those things they suggested when Stronach crossed the floor -- and kept their noses clean instead of just looking like the new Liberal party) it actually does a good thing for the NDP.

If Peter Milliken continues as Speaker of the House, then the NDP have enough seats to hold the balance of power - a much stronger position than they were in immediately after the election. And yeah, if Emerson and the CPC had done what they said they would (run a by-election to see if constituency agrees with the move), Ian Waddell would probably win that seat back for the NDP. So that wouldn't hurt my feelings either. ;)

I pretty much think Stockwell Day is a danger to society, AND his own party. Personally, I voted NDP, but I for one am happy to see a conservative minority instead of the liberals. However, I can stomach the conservative party only so long as they're moderate, fiscal conservatives; not social conservative fundamentalist jesusfreaks psychotic homophobe racist sexist pigs like Stockwell.

I'm disappointed with Mr.Harper for choosing him. He worked hard to project the image of a moderate, serious, conservative party. People like Stockwell Day will make them appear like morons the minute they open their mouths. I can only hope there aren't too many of those in Mr.Harper's cabinet.

Well, it's not like Mr. Harper doesn;t have a few quotes to select from: Especially if you match up his actions today with his election platform of the past few months.

Against an appointed Senate... and then appoints someone to it just so he can have a cabinet minister from Montreal?

Historically speaking, his adherence to Stockwell's point of view is also pretty well documented:

"Then there is the Progressive Conservative party, the PC party, which won only 20 seats. Now, the term Progressive Conservative will immediately raise suspicions in all of your minds. It should... They were in favour of gay rights officially, officially for abortion on demand. Officially -- what else can I say about them? Officially for the entrenchment of our universal, collectivized, health-care system and multicultural policies in the constitution of the country."

"In terms of the unemployed, of which we have over a million-and-a-half, don't feel particularly bad for many of these people. They don't feel bad about it themselves, as long as they're receiving generous social assistance and unemployment insurance."

I mean, why even bother appointing a minister for health when his opinion is:

"Resume provincial responsibility for health-care policy. If Ottawa objects to provincial policy, fight in the courts... [E]ach province should raise its own revenue for health... "

and

"It's past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act."


And why doesn't he equivalence Belinda's defection with Emerson's? Because Vancouver citizens don't matter to him:

"You have to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from Eastern Canada; people who live in ghettos and are not integrated into Western Canadian society."



The fun part of today's appointments? Many Albertans are very upset that they only got four cabinet posts after electing Conservatives in every single riding. Hell, Quebec got more - which puts Steviie right into that very same "pandering to Quebec" league that they have been complaining about with the Liberals for decades.

Harper has to walk a very narrow path to keep his Western core happy, but also appeal to enough Easterners to win enough seats to form government. I'm not sure that his selections today did him any favours in that department.

So the much-ballyhooed Tory promise of *ahem* "accountability in Government" is off to a predictable start.

Keep an eye peeled for outright graft in Quebec ridings who picked the right pony. You heard it here first...

Yay Conservative government! :cool:... on a doggy leash.

Btw, I have to bark at Emerson for betraying his constituents. I know he wanted to help Prince Rupert and it's new container port, that Gordo's olympic, and Ridley Terminal. But really, does his constituents want a Conservative MP?

I am glad that Stocky got Public Safety.

The reason I am glad is that it is a portfolio with very little purpose in existing. The bureaucracy (The RCMP et al) manage to keep up safe without too much help from whoever tops the pyramid. I view the cup as half full and hope that this way Day will feel content to sit at the Cabinet table while his hands are conveniently tied. Besides, now we have a reason to keep him off those dangerous jetskis.

Rumour has it that Harper approached him, not Emerson approaching Harper (not that that is any excuse). Apparently, Harper wanted an MP from one of the big cities (Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, etc), and as a blue Grit, Emerson fit the bill.

This theory is backed up by the appointment of the un-elected Michel Fortier (who wasn't even a electoral candidate!) who was named to Minister of Public Works portfolio by way of a quick elevation to a Senate seat. Fortier is a Harper staff member from...Montreal.

The CPC seem determined to get representation in the big cities.
I agree with your theory regarding cabinet representation in all the big cities - but I think it's a wron-headed one on Harper's part. Imagine if a Prime Minister built a cabinet out of people that were elcted to his/her party! What a concept! Boy what a slap in the face to the 10 Conservative MPs in Quebec that were actually sent to the house of commons. They cannot represent their voters in cabinet, but a partisan upstart is there to look out for the people of Montreal, who did not choose Stephen Harper at all.

I agree with your theory regarding cabinet representation in all the big cities - but I think it's a wron-headed one on Harper's part. Imagine if a Prime Minister built a cabinet out of people that were elcted to his/her party! What a concept! Boy what a slap in the face to the 10 Conservative MPs in Quebec that were actually sent to the house of commons. They cannot represent their voters in cabinet, but a partisan upstart is there to look out for the people of Montreal, who did not choose Stephen Harper at all.

Boy, what a slap in the face? Lawrence Cannon, Maxime Bernier and Josee Verner were all given cabinet positions - so what are you talking about?

Boy, what a slap in the face? Lawrence Cannon, Maxime Bernier and Josee Verner were all given cabinet positions - so what are you talking about?
The fact that quebec always has been, and probably alwys will be overrepresented in government - but this should at least be through its voted representatives. And this from the guy who's been screaming for senate reform since his political career began.

Did the Conservatives just all of a sudden shift to centre? They cancelled the privatization of Ridley Terminal. Good move Harper, now stop pretending to be an NDP'er. :D

Harper before: Promised an elected senate.

Harper now: Appointed Michel Fortier to the senate. Even worst, appointed to Harper's cabinet even he is not an elected MP.

I hate you Harper. :headbang:

"I'm going to be Stephen Harper's worst enemy. We're going to stir the pot and you better believe we are going to make a heck of a lot of noise."

-- David Emerson, January 23rd, when he was elected as a Liberal.


"People want a member of Parliament who can help them, who gets things done. I feel I can have the most impact in cabinet, particularly when they are asking me to join them."

-- David Emerson, Feb. 6, 2006, when he joined Stephen Harper's Conservative cabinet.


I'm not sure how to spin this actually.. is David Emerson another example of the Liberal mentality of corruption or an early example of the Conservative mentality of corruption? Either way, I voted NDP.

The fact that a Liberal crossed the floor to the Conservatives is sweet, suck on that Belinda, you Liberal Whore:sniper: . Sure you got elected but what good is going to do you. You are going to quickly become another face in the crowd. The only attention you are going to get is to show your tits.Go away please.
Wow, what a sexist, offensive and unnecessary set of things to say.
It does show a nice set of double standards, however, when a woman changes parties, she's a whore, when a man does, he's to be congratulated.

Did the Conservatives just all of a sudden shift to centre? They cancelled the privatization of Ridley Terminal. Good move Harper, now stop pretending to be an NDP'er. :D
They're going to be reasonable this time. They want to give the impression that they're not going to fuck us up, then when the minority government falls people will think "oh, well, those conservatives weren't so bad" and then given a majority, they will analy rape us.

They're going to be reasonable this time. They want to give the impression that they're not going to fuck us up, then when the minority government falls people will think "oh, well, those conservatives weren't so bad" and then given a majority, they will analy rape us.

Right, afterall it is their goal to make everyone in Canada hate them once they get a majority. Thus, ruining the Conservative Party for 20 years at least.

Some of the things you lefties say can be really amusing.

I'm not sure how to spin this actually.. is David Emerson another example of the Liberal mentality of corruption or an early example of the Conservative mentality of corruption? Either way, I voted NDP.Not a bad question to ask. Well, he was always a bit of a blue grit, so I go for the latter version. In any event, my concience too, is clear.

If the conservatives touch my CBC, I will personally march down to ottawa and force Stephen Harper to listen to Wiretap, ideas, Quirks&quarks, DNTO, and Cross Country Checkup until he gives up.

Right, afterall it is their goal to make everyone in Canada hate them once they get a majority. Thus, ruining the Conservative Party for 20 years at least.
Please - the conservatives are already coming out with things that were not mentioned during the campaign, but are suddenly #1 priorities. Like raising the age of consent. If they had a free reign, Canadians would regret it, and fast.

Right, afterall it is their goal to make everyone in Canada hate them once they get a majority. Thus, ruining the Conservative Party for 20 years at least.

There is precedent for that actually.. we call him Mulrooney.

Please - the conservatives are already coming out with things that were not mentioned during the campaign, but are suddenly #1 priorities. Like raising the age of consent. If they had a free reign, Canadians would regret it, and fast.

How is raising the age of consent evil? If Canadians did regret the choice, then they can change it in 4 years if they get a majority. We live in a Democracy, not a Dictatorshop.

Please - the conservatives are already coming out with things that were not mentioned during the campaign, but are suddenly #1 priorities. Like raising the age of consent. If they had a free reign, Canadians would regret it, and fast.

So you support letting adult men and women have sex with 14 and 15 year olds? And obviously, you didn't read Toews' comments about a "close-in age" meaning people under 18 would still be allowed the same sexual freedoms?

Right, afterall it is their goal to make everyone in Canada hate them once they get a majority. Thus, ruining the Conservative Party for 20 years at least.

Some of the things you lefties say can be really amusing.
:rolleyes:
So the conservatives are going to be certain to push the unpopular socially conservative issues this time around then? Or will they be waiting for next round?

How is raising the age of consent evil? If Canadians did regret the choice, then they can change it in 4 years if they get a majority. We live in a Democracy, not a Dictatorshop.
5 years max.

:rolleyes:
So the conservatives are going to be certain to push the unpopular socially conservative issues this time around then? Or will they be waiting for next round?

You do realize that, for the most part, the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party are the same? You won't even give the Conservatives a chance, yet you don't mind the Liberals remaining in power after all they did.

You do realize that, for the most part, the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party are the same? You won't even give the Conservatives a chance, yet you don't mind the Liberals remaining in power after all they did.
No, the liberals fucked up hugely. I think that we should get rid of this first past the post crap, get rid of the bloc as a federal party (really, they don't belong) and allow some legitimate minor parties a shot at getting in power.

However, the Liberals aren't headed by a guy who wants to deny rights to minorities or who has issue with abortion as it is, so it makes them slightly less evil.

And also, while both parties may be fiscally conservative at the moment, the liberals are socially progressive while the conservatives are socially backwards.

You do realize that, for the most part, the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party are the same? You won't even give the Conservatives a chance, yet you don't mind the Liberals remaining in power after all they did.
I was more than happy to give them a chance, and to some extent, I still am. Lets just say I've lost a good amount of respect and trust just from yesterday's debacle alone. And actually no - back in the days of the progressive conservatives, maybe the similarity was greater, but now the two parties fiscal and social positions are very different.

How is raising the age of consent evil? If Canadians did regret the choice, then they can change it in 4 years if they get a majority. We live in a Democracy, not a Dictatorshop.

actually, one might argue that once a party gets majority, it's the same as a dictatorship in Canada, with party solidarity and all.

and for your information, it's 5 years in Canada, not 4 like in the states.

and for your information, it's 5 years in Canada, not 4 like in the states.technically it is 5, but hardly anyone waits that long.

actually, one might argue that once a party gets majority, it's the same as a dictatorship in Canada, with party solidarity and all.

and for your information, it's 5 years in Canada, not 4 like in the states.

Most times it is only for 4 years though. The Prime Minister of Canada has more power then anyother Western Democratic leader, so even without a majority he is pretty much a dictator.

Most times it is only for 4 years though. The Prime Minister of Canada has more power then anyother Western Democratic leader, so even without a majority he is pretty much a dictator.

with a minority, the other parties at least can put some kind of a leash on the PM. but with a majority, the government can strip away all of our rights without us being able to do anything about it. the system needs change, and i really don't think Harper is going to bring it. He's just going to fuck up this country even more.

Wester Bloc all the way. Let's see Ottawa survive without oil, forestry, and wheat. Bastards.

with a minority, the other parties at least can put some kind of a leash on the PM. but with a majority, the government can strip away all of our rights without us being able to do anything about it. the system needs change, and i really don't think Harper is going to bring it. He's just going to fuck up this country even more.

Wester Bloc all the way. Let's see Ottawa survive without oil, forestry, and wheat. Bastards.

Well, I think the Armed Forces and the United States might have something to say about. Along with every Province and every Democracy in the world.

with a minority, the other parties at least can put some kind of a leash on the PM. but with a majority, the government can strip away all of our rights without us being able to do anything about it. the system needs change, and i really don't think Harper is going to bring it. He's just going to fuck up this country even more.

Wester Bloc all the way. Let's see Ottawa survive without oil, forestry, and wheat. Bastards.


If the citizens of Ontario had felt that way 80 years ago, Alberta as a province would have dissapeared in the dustbowls of the Great Depression. As it is, we are still the only other province to continually recieve less than we give in Federal money.

We just aren't whiners about it like SOME provinces we could mention. No, some provinces more closely resemble the lottery winner who won't give a nickel to the same siblings that helped them out for their whole lives until those lucky numbers came in, and who suddenly think they are better than the rest of their family for what ammounts to little more than dumb luck.

Ottawa - the city - is in no danger of failing to survive. If Canada DID ever bust up, Ontario would manage just fine. And Ottawa along with it.

the americans are a bit too strained with Iraq, Afganistan, N. Korea, and Iran to be caring about Canada. Besides, with the non-withstanding clause sitting there, the governments could do this legally!

As for Alberta, I DO believe they need to share. (I'm not a Tory hick, I'm a BC hippie.) But you cannot deny that there is WAY to much power resting in Eastern Canada. New Brunswick and Nova Scotia both get 10 seats in the Senate, whereas the western provinces each get 6. Even PEI, who is pretty much non-existent in Canada, gets 4 seats!

Wester Bloc all the way.WHAT!!! You voted for these loonys!

WHAT!!! You voted for these loonys!

No. NEVER would i vote conservatives. EVER! I just think Canada's giving Quebec way to much, and ignoring everywhere else. (and i'm not old enough to vote, even though i would've liked to make Esquimalt an NDP holding. 6 votes difference. 6!)

You do realize that, for the most part, the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party are the same?Economical: For the most part

Social: Way different
You won't even give the Conservatives a chance.We already did. Happy?

You won't even give the Conservatives a chance.
Hell no! Down with the fascists and warmongerers!

I'm not sad one bit the Liberals lost. I'm rather sad to see they were replaced by another bunch of corrupt businessmen (and women, evidently) but it was all too easy to predict. It's the same since over 150 years. A dictatorship of class.

I boycotted the elections and I'm pretty satisfied to see we were close to 40% to do the same.

http://www.pcr-rcpcanada.org/
http://www.pcr-rcpcanada.org/en/whoarewe.php

May we destroy the bourgeois State and its institutions!

If the citizens of Ontario had felt that way 80 years ago, Alberta as a province would have dissapeared in the dustbowls of the Great Depression. As it is, we are still the only other province to continually recieve less than we give in Federal money.

We just aren't whiners about it like SOME provinces we could mention. No, some provinces more closely resemble the lottery winner who won't give a nickel to the same siblings that helped them out for their whole lives until those lucky numbers came in, and who suddenly think they are better than the rest of their family for what ammounts to little more than dumb luck.

Ottawa - the city - is in no danger of failing to survive. If Canada DID ever bust up, Ontario would manage just fine. And Ottawa along with it.

HERE! HERE! :)

Hell no! Down with the fascists and warmongerers!

I'm not sad one bit the Liberals lost. I'm rather sad to see they were replaced by another bunch of corrupt businessmen (and women, evidently) but it was all too easy to predict. It's the same since over 150 years. A dictatorship of class.

I boycotted the elections and I'm pretty satisfied to see we were close to 40% to do the same.

http://www.pcr-rcpcanada.org/
http://www.pcr-rcpcanada.org/en/whoarewe.php

May we destroy the bourgeois State and its institutions!
You're crazy. Really.

I rather excercise my right to vote rather than joining some silly "boycott the elections" crap.

Harper before: Promised an elected senate.

Hark, good socialist sir! You, of all people, should know an elected senate doesn't pop up overnight. ;)

Hark, good socialist sir! You, of all people, should know an elected senate doesn't pop up overnight. ;)heh, I know but read it again.

Harper now: Appointed Michel Fortier to the senate. Even worst, appointed to Harper's cabinet even he is not an elected MP.Really, does this sound ethical to you? What good did Mr. Fortier do to this country?

Promising an elected senate while appointed a conservative insider, does this really contradict each other?

The Conservatives are simply playing by the established rules of the game, which admittedly suck. Trust me, I was suprised when the Toronto Sun blasted Harper, and the Star more or less defended him. I felt like I was in Bizarro world.

At any rate, regarding some earlier posts:

- It's only been been a week, and already someone is blasting them, for allegedly pursuing their mandate, in an incorrect order... So what if the age of consent law is suddenly TOP priority? This isn't a morality law, it's designed to help deter sexual predators who target children on the internet, if you observe the related post on the page that we were sent to. Previous Liberal governments repeatedly got into power by promising to do the opposite of what they eventually ended up doing.

- As to the conservatives 'social policy'; Yes, the conservative party has its share of wingnuts. Harper had the unfortunate task of trying to forge a national alternative to the Liberals, and suceeded handily. He has to make compromises with the wingnuts in the party in order to hold it together. A 'free vote' on same sex marriage is just that, democracy in action, which Paul Martin was too spineless to let Parliament even debate. The supreme court will throw it out anyway. As to abortion, get real, it's here to stay. It's a Liberal smear tactic. Contrary to popular belief, Harper is not Bush Lite.

- It's time for Alberta to pony up. The west wanted in, now they are. Pay your dues fellas.

- 'Boycotting the elections' is codeword for, 'I'm too lazy to go to the polls'. Vote for the Marxist-Leninist party if you don't like the big 3. Inaction and indifference is what keeps the big machine going. Especially the generation that frequents internet forums. Come on, don't let the boomers decide your fate forever.

All I'm saying is, give the Conservatives a chance. They're working in the established system and trying to affect change. I'm as pissed off as anyone about some of his cabinet choices, but this is a party that wants to win more elections. They know that Republican-style government won't hold water here.

The Conservatives are simply playing by the established rules of the game, which admittedly suck. Trust me, I was suprised when the Toronto Sun blasted Harper, and the Star more or less defended him. I felt like I was in Bizarro world.

At any rate, regarding some earlier posts:

- It's only been been a week, and already someone is blasting them, for allegedly pursuing their mandate, in an incorrect order... So what if the age of consent law is suddenly TOP priority? This isn't a morality law, it's designed to help deter sexual predators who target children on the internet, if you observe the related post on the page that we were sent to. Previous Liberal governments repeatedly got into power by promising to do the opposite of what they eventually ended up doing.

- As to the conservatives 'social policy'; Yes, the conservative party has its share of wingnuts. Harper had the unfortunate task of trying to forge a national alternative to the Liberals, and suceeded handily. He has to make compromises with the wingnuts in the party in order to hold it together. A 'free vote' on same sex marriage is just that, democracy in action, which Paul Martin was too spineless to let Parliament even debate. The supreme court will throw it out anyway. As to abortion, get real, it's here to stay. It's a Liberal smear tactic. Contrary to popular belief, Harper is not Bush Lite.

- It's time for Alberta to pony up. The west wanted in, now they are. Pay your dues fellas.

- 'Boycotting the elections' is codeword for, 'I'm too lazy to go to the polls'. Vote for the Marxist-Leninist party if you don't like the big 3. Inaction and indifference is what keeps the big machine going. Especially the generation that frequents internet forums. Come on, don't let the boomers decide your fate forever.

All I'm saying is, give the Conservatives a chance. They're working in the established system and trying to affect change. I'm as pissed off as anyone about some of his cabinet choices, but this is a party that wants to win more elections. They know that Republican-style government won't hold water here.

Yes, the way Harper appointed Fortier is established rules. However it is also part and parcel of the established rules that he has put as centerpiece of his campaigning as something that needs changing. Now, a person's credibility takes a hit when it turns out that they are happy to use the rules when it suits their advantage after complaining about the body for years.

So, calling him on his hypocricy is fair game.

all the mroe so since the appointment was made simply so he could say that he had a cabinet minister from Montreal so he could claim to be representing that city - even when the citizens of that city made it very clear at the ballot box that they feel that his party does NOT represent their best interests.

And when the person in questions tells CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/02/07/fortier-michael060207.html) that he did not run because he did not WANT to run, then clearly this is a minister without constituency nor any desire to represent his local constituents.

No, it is just an attempt to pander to Quebec and to reward a crony - BOTH practices that were levelled as accusations against the Liberals during the campaign.

Frankly, there is a lot of political damage done here to Harper's credibility. And personal credibility is EVERYTHING in a leader.

Frankly, there is a lot of political damage done here to Harper's credibility. And personal credibility is EVERYTHING in a leader.

I 100% agree with you on that. Except Jean Chretien campaigned on scrapping GST and Free trade, and won 3 straight majorities regardless of doing the opposite. Harper's in a difficult minority position - this recent shuffle will strengthen his position in Parliament and help him push through the platform he was elected on. If he ends up pushing for an elected Senate through all this, I think the public will generally forget about it. As I see it, if he delivers on most of what he's promised, he'll win a second time around.

I 100% agree with you on that. Except Jean Chretien campaigned on scrapping GST and Free trade, and won 3 straight majorities regardless of doing the opposite. Harper's in a difficult minority position - this recent shuffle will strengthen his position in Parliament and help him push through the platform he was elected on. If he ends up pushing for an elected Senate through all this, I think the public will generally forget about it. As I see it, if he delivers on most of what he's promised, he'll win a second time around.


Chretien had the advantage of a) public hatred of Mulrooney (hey - even Harper had abandonned Lyin Brian by then), and vote-splitting on the right as Reform bled off conservative votes.

And, more to the point, Chretien's failures on policy are one thing (and yes - were worth calling him on), but the centerpiece of Harper's campaign was exactly the issues of personal credibility, dirty politics, and cronyism. Shooting his own centerpiece out from under himself in his first day in office is a very odd way to go about securing one's position.

with a minority, the other parties at least can put some kind of a leash on the PM. but with a majority, the government can strip away all of our rights without us being able to do anything about it. the system needs change, and i really don't think Harper is going to bring it. He's just going to fuck up this country even more.

Wester Bloc all the way. Let's see Ottawa survive without oil, forestry, and wheat. Bastards.

Excuse me?

Since when did Alberta sell Oil to the rest of Canada? No no, they get far more money selling it to the U.S. who turns it right around and sells it to the rest of Canada. Gee, thanks Alberta. Wheat? Thats what Manitoba and Saskatchawan are for. Forestry eh... I always thought BC was big on the forestry industry... but so is Ontario. Isn't Alberta all prairie?

How can you people (And now Im lumping you folks in with Quebec) actually believe that you want to seperate from Canada? What do you have to gain, besides a huge bill for all those hospitals, railroads, airports, bus terminals, public works, and highways that the federal government practically gave to you.

Enjoy your oil while it is a commodity at the current level of need. It won't last forever, and when your economy collapses, Canada will be right here, to welcome you back into the family, like the Rebel son who tried to live by himself for a week.

Chretien had the advantage of a) public hatred of Mulrooney (hey - even Harper had abandonned Lyin Brian by then), and vote-splitting on the right as Reform bled off conservative votes.

And, more to the point, Chretien's failures on policy are one thing (and yes - were worth calling him on), but the centerpiece of Harper's campaign was exactly the issues of personal credibility, dirty politics, and cronyism. Shooting his own centerpiece out from under himself in his first day in office is a very odd way to go about securing one's position.

This is my point - the centrepiece of Chretien's platform was scrapping the GST and Free Trade, the reasons why Lyin' Brian was so hated in the first place, and he still remained in power. (The centrepiece of Harper's platform is primarily, IMHO, accountability to taxpayers and transparency in government, as a result of AdScam, etc. Senate reform was not in his 'top 5' issues.)

Vote splitting can happen on the Left side of the equation as well, a la' Liberal/NDP. I don't think anybody thought Harper would win the election in the first place. I hate his 'appointments' as well. That doesn't mean the electorate won't put him back in power. Only time will tell.

Actually, pretty much EVERYONE predicted a Harper win. Some even predicted a majority.

The question next time around is how many of the millions of "punish the Liberals" votes will feel that the party needs a second spank, and how many will return to their roots.

What a depressing thing to return from Cuba to. Harper as PM:(

you were in an oppressive communist country... have returned to a democracy... and you're depressed?

enjoy your tax cut! invest wisely!

hehe

you were in an oppressive communist country... have returned to a democracy... and you're depressed?

enjoy your tax cut! invest wisely!

hehe
I wonder when democracy will return to the US?

I kid I kid

hehe

Excuse me?

Since when did Alberta sell Oil to the rest of Canada? No no, they get far more money selling it to the U.S. who turns it right around and sells it to the rest of Canada. Gee, thanks Alberta. Wheat? Thats what Manitoba and Saskatchawan are for. Forestry eh... I always thought BC was big on the forestry industry... but so is Ontario. Isn't Alberta all prairie?

How can you people (And now Im lumping you folks in with Quebec) actually believe that you want to seperate from Canada? What do you have to gain, besides a huge bill for all those hospitals, railroads, airports, bus terminals, public works, and highways that the federal government practically gave to you.

Enjoy your oil while it is a commodity at the current level of need. It won't last forever, and when your economy collapses, Canada will be right here, to welcome you back into the family, like the Rebel son who tried to live by himself for a week.

WESTERN bloc, meaning everything WEST of Manitoba at least. has a choice of joining the east or now, since they are right stuck in the middle. And no, please stop referring to me like I live in Alberta. I DON"T. I live in Victoria, and am a proud NDP supporter.

As for Quebec, sure, why not. I don't really want this country to seperate. I just want the Western Bloc movement to gain some momentum to get the federal government sweating to give us stuff. Hey, that's what the Quebecers are doing right now, isn't it? 2 referendums and they still haven't seperated, and they probably never will. They're just using this seperation thing to make the feds give them stuff and get attention.

As for Alberta. I DO believe they are being stupid with the oil money. They COULD save for a rainy day instead of giving everybody $400 for doing nothing. But hey, maybe that's why I don't live in Alberta.

I agree with your theory regarding cabinet representation in all the big cities - but I think it's a wron-headed one on Harper's part. Imagine if a Prime Minister built a cabinet out of people that were elcted to his/her party! What a concept! Boy what a slap in the face to the 10 Conservative MPs in Quebec that were actually sent to the house of commons. They cannot represent their voters in cabinet, but a partisan upstart is there to look out for the people of Montreal, who did not choose Stephen Harper at all.
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you - I was just trying to understand why Harper did what he did.

Pulling Emerson out of the Liberal party and putting him in Cabinet ignores a number of other BC MPs that have worked long and hard for the party. It's not like BC has a shortage of Conservative MPs. James Moore from Port Moody (Greater Vancouver Area) was the Amateur Sport Critic - he would probably have been a good choice to be in charge of the Olympics instead of Emerson. And Moore has been considered a 'rising star' in the Conservative party for a while.

As for Emerson's ability to handle the softwood lumber issue, Chuck Strahl (who was given Agriculture) is a former logger.

And let's not forget party stalwart Jay Hill, who would also be an excellent cabinet member. He is MP for the economically important (oil and gas) BC region of Prince George-Peace River.

In other words, BC didn't need Emerson to have a strong voice in cabinet. His job could have been done by any of the MPs listed above, and Moore is even in the GVA - just not the Vancouver metro area.

Excuse me?

Since when did Alberta sell Oil to the rest of Canada? No no, they get far more money selling it to the U.S. who turns it right around and sells it to the rest of Canada. Gee, thanks Alberta. Wheat? Thats what Manitoba and Saskatchawan are for. Forestry eh... I always thought BC was big on the forestry industry... but so is Ontario. Isn't Alberta all prairie?

How can you people (And now Im lumping you folks in with Quebec) actually believe that you want to seperate from Canada? What do you have to gain, besides a huge bill for all those hospitals, railroads, airports, bus terminals, public works, and highways that the federal government practically gave to you.

Enjoy your oil while it is a commodity at the current level of need. It won't last forever, and when your economy collapses, Canada will be right here, to welcome you back into the family, like the Rebel son who tried to live by himself for a week.
Oh good grief. Alberta sells oil to the rest of Canada as well as exports it. So does BC. So does Quebec, Saskatchewan, Nfld, and New Brunswick, for that matter. Why do you think Alberta was so upset about the NEP? (Even though they ultimately benefitted from it because it allowed them to gain control of the local oil companies instead of having them all owned by the US.)

Separatists make up less than 2% of the Albertan population and even less in the rest of the western provinces. Quit lumping the rest of us in with those loud-mouth whiners.

Actually, pretty much EVERYONE predicted a Harper win. Some even predicted a majority.

The question next time around is how many of the millions of "punish the Liberals" votes will feel that the party needs a second spank, and how many will return to their roots.

I was referring to when the election was first called (when he made his 'free vote on traditional marriage' claims), but point taken.

[slice]..., even though i would've liked to make Esquimalt an NDP holding. 6 votes difference. 6!)

What are you blathering about? I worked on Garrison's campaign and am very disappointe that he lost, but I can guarantee you that he lost to Keith Martin by more than 6 votes.

http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/riding/277/

Keith Martin, Liberal - 20,761 votes or 34.93% of the popular vote
Randall Garrison, NDP - 18,600 votes or 31.3% of the popular vote

That's a difference of 2,161 votes or 3.63% of the popular vote.

What are you blathering about? I worked on Garrison's campaign and am very disappointe that he lost, but I can guarantee you that he lost to Keith Martin by more than 6 votes.

http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/riding/277/

Keith Martin, Liberal - 20,761 votes or 34.93% of the popular vote
Randall Garrison, NDP - 18,600 votes or 31.3% of the popular vote

That's a difference of 2,161 votes or 3.63% of the popular vote.

i swear it was not that much. But then again, my memory might be misled.

Excuse me?

Since when did Alberta sell Oil to the rest of Canada? No no, they get far more money selling it to the U.S. who turns it right around and sells it to the rest of Canada. Gee, thanks Alberta. Wheat? Thats what Manitoba and Saskatchawan are for. Forestry eh... I always thought BC was big on the forestry industry... but so is Ontario. Isn't Alberta all prairie?

How can you people (And now Im lumping you folks in with Quebec) actually believe that you want to seperate from Canada? What do you have to gain, besides a huge bill for all those hospitals, railroads, airports, bus terminals, public works, and highways that the federal government practically gave to you.

Enjoy your oil while it is a commodity at the current level of need. It won't last forever, and when your economy collapses, Canada will be right here, to welcome you back into the family, like the Rebel son who tried to live by himself for a week.

Apologize for your ignorance. I mean it. Say we do obtain a higher profit from trading with the United States. You don't control the oil sans. No, the government does. Do not personally flame us Albertans who happen to enjoy living a bountiful life $400.00 richer every now and again. "You people". I thought we erradicated that phrase when 'us kinds of people' began to realize that is blatant verbal abuse, slander, and is not to be taken from anyone, no matter how nobel they believe themselves to be. Attempt reading the constitution. We all love trees; hey we need the oxygen so that our politicians can shout, yell, and then go crawling up to eachother imploring for forgiveness.

Alright, put it this way. I blame (the rest of) Canada. Cough up, perhaps we'll be nicer in the future.

Cough up? Why is it that Ontario is one of the few provinces that don't actually get their full refund from the federal government. I'm sorry, but I will not apologize. More and more I hear of Albertans "flaming" eastern Canadians.

I love BC, I love Saskatchawan, and I love Manitoba. But when I read letters to the editor in the Toronto Star from Albertans telling us to "Grow up, and change our vote for once" kinda upsets me.

Ignorance? Hardly. This entire country has an superority complex, and I will be the first to admit that I too suffer from this disease. The problem is that with the type of government we have, we all jockey for money from the Federal Government. While I am perturbed with this form of events, I still do not like the form of government below the border. What to do? I have no idea. I think, Canada as a whole, should get over itself, and we should start working together. Yes Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver try to get the most attention, but thats because they are huge population centers. And I believe I just stumbed across the reason why the "Western Bloc" wants in... they have no major city representation. Calgary is a big city, and so is Edmonton, so I guess we could say the oil thing is a way of equalization.

Im just rambling at this point, but its also helping me get my own idea of how Canada is working together. I love Canada, but we have some serious problems, specifically with Nationalism. Everyone is bitter towards another province (Ontario Vs. Quebec, BC vs. Quebec, Alberta vs. Quebec :p)

Its almost as if we live in different countries already; And In regards to the "you people comment" I generally shun the whole P.C. thing nowadays, too much of a double-standard.

Having gone on such a uncoordinated, misguided rambling, maybe I should list some good things about Canada, and make everyone happy, province wise:

1. British Colombia: Excellent Diversity, and beautiful landscape. People are hardworking and socially minded.
2. Alberta: Economic prowess, and very environmentally consciencious (sp?). More importantly: Lots of good Rugby players.
3. Saskatchawan: Hardy, and can take a good joke.
4. Manitoba: Good sports about that whole Metis thing... yeah. Often forgotten about, which is quite unfortunate.
5. Ontario: Skip, as I live there.
6. Quebec: Friendly, and competative in a good way. I do like how they protect their heritage, and are a very proud group of Canadians. Lots of nice energy production too.
7. Newfoundland and Labrador: For some reason, a lot of members of the Canadian Armed Forces I've met are from Newfoundland. Also, great fishing industry (and Oil)
8. New Brunswick: Beautiful, and exceptionally nice people, very friendly.
9. Nova Scotia: Also quite Beautiful, and very scottish... its a good thing.
10. PEI: Screw PEI. KIDDING; I love those potatoes, but also their very tight-knit community. I wish we could have that here :(

So, Im crazy. But, how about, from now on, we all post something we like about a province different from ours. I think we (including myself... especially) look at the negatives of each others provinces far too much, and it can really tear us apart. (NDP Rocks.)



In short, this post made no sense.

i swear it was not that much. But then again, my memory might be misled.
A 6 vote difference would have triggered an automatic recount. Which didn't happen.

Ah well, although I would have prefered Garrison to win, Martin has been and will continue to be a good MP. I just disagree with some of his positions (and in some cases, stridently disagree).

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you - I was just trying to understand why Harper did what he did.

Pulling Emerson out of the Liberal party and putting him in Cabinet ignores a number of other BC MPs that have worked long and hard for the party. It's not like BC has a shortage of Conservative MPs. James Moore from Port Moody (Greater Vancouver Area) was the Amateur Sport Critic - he would probably have been a good choice to be in charge of the Olympics instead of Emerson. And Moore has been considered a 'rising star' in the Conservative party for a while.

As for Emerson's ability to handle the softwood lumber issue, Chuck Strahl (who was given Agriculture) is a former logger.

And let's not forget party stalwart Jay Hill, who would also be an excellent cabinet member. He is MP for the economically important (oil and gas) BC region of Prince George-Peace River.

In other words, BC didn't need Emerson to have a strong voice in cabinet. His job could have been done by any of the MPs listed above, and Moore is even in the GVA - just not the Vancouver metro area.

Moore especially must be pissed at this move. Indeed, he was one of the MOST vocal about the impropriety of such an event in the Stronach case and one of the loudest requestors for procedural changes where this sort of thing should lead to a by-election.

How did he put it at the time? Oh yes:

"I think it shows there are two kinds of people in public life -- people with principle and people like Belinda Stronach,"

Besides, Emerson was part of the Liberal team already working on the softwood issue was he not? And how many times did Harper make political hay with the inability for the Liberals to get it settled? He implied - if not clearly stated - outright incompetence by the Liberals in regard to this issue.


So poaching someone involved with it already and giving him the same damn thing to work on seems VERY strange. You don't normally hire part of what you say is "the problem" in the hopes of arriving at "the solution" do you?

Alright, put it this way. I blame (the rest of) Canada. Cough up, perhaps we'll be nicer in the future.

You blame the rest of canada for what?

Giving a nice deal so that you got to be the richest province in the country by virtue of retaining the bulk of revenues from mineral rights taxation?

You blame us that this hasn't quite allowed you to have a negative sales tax whereby the province subsidizes you if you buy something?

Or you blame us that you only got back $400 from Ralph?


Or do you blame us all for the federal tax dollars that went into researching oil sands extraction techniques that now enrich your coffers?

Or is it that you blame us for being there and shifting revenue to your province to help stuggling ranchers and farmers for decades in the early part of the last centure?

No, no - none of that's good enough.


Nope - you want the provinces who AREN'T as wealthy as you to "cough up" even more.

:rolleyes:

Excuse me?

Since when did Alberta sell Oil to the rest of Canada? No no, they get far more money selling it to the U.S. who turns it right around and sells it to the rest of Canada. Gee, thanks Alberta. Wheat? Thats what Manitoba and Saskatchawan are for. Forestry eh... I always thought BC was big on the forestry industry... but so is Ontario. Isn't Alberta all prairie?

How can you people (And now Im lumping you folks in with Quebec) actually believe that you want to seperate from Canada? What do you have to gain, besides a huge bill for all those hospitals, railroads, airports, bus terminals, public works, and highways that the federal government practically gave to you.


Tell me; please; did the feds pull the hospitals out of their butts? Did they get them out of box of crackerjacks? Tell me, is there some magical incantation that speak in hushed tones that produces the wonders of healthcare? Or did they just take money from the provinces?


Also, please go back to school and restudy geography. Too much was said on Yonge street, and not enough on your fellow provinces. Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba are all primarily Forest. Thank your teachers for the great edumication!

You blame the rest of canada for what?

Giving a nice deal so that you got to be the richest province in the country by virtue of retaining the bulk of revenues from mineral rights taxation?

You blame us that this hasn't quite allowed you to have a negative sales tax whereby the province subsidizes you if you buy something?

Or you blame us that you only got back $400 from Ralph?


Or do you blame us all for the federal tax dollars that went into researching oil sands extraction techniques that now enrich your coffers?

Or is it that you blame us for being there and shifting revenue to your province to help stuggling ranchers and farmers for decades in the early part of the last centure?

No, no - none of that's good enough.


Nope - you want the provinces who AREN'T as wealthy as you to "cough up" even more.

:rolleyes:

I believe I mis-represented my opinion slightly, as I digressed to a basic and simple rant. However, to clarify, I blame the rest of Canada for whining about how it doesn't get a share of the "Ralphbucks". Personally, I don't. I don't get the rebate dollars. This does not anger nor upset me at all. So peace. When the BC finally picks themselves up from being trod on by the Americans, from dragging softwood like deadweight, then perhaps Alberta will be envying them. Perhaps the East will profit from all that water it knows it has, and once it actually realizes it, begins to find its own method of profit. Yet, even the Northwest Territories may actually attract enough tourists to buy those beautiful diamonds, and even invest in a pair of moose dung earrings or two.

I guess we'll find out.

But you know what? I find no point in arguing between provinces. That makes us as bad as the US and state rivalry. :confused:

We are Canadian, no doubt about it. Make the most of it, whether we be under a liberal, conservative, NDP, BQ, or FSM (Flying Spagetti Monster) government.

Last time I checked, this country was about acceptance and unity. Why don't we act on that for a change? (Not a pun. Nooooo....) :D