NationStates Jolt Archive

...about materialism?

After reading some of the posts in this forum, and particularly some directed at me, I want to know why some people feel that materialism is so inherently evil.

And not just materialism. Why is it so bad that some people care more about their car, or makeup, or clothing than about what some Danish newspaper did, or who won the Palestinian elections?

What is so wrong with caring about looking good, and wearing Rip Curl, or Sass and Bide, or Levis? What is so evil about being aware of current fashion trends, and reading Vogue or Cleo instead of Time or New Scientist?

Why do people feel a need to trash me in the street, and make assumptions about my knowledge of the world, because I like to wear a denim miniskirt and makeup?

Why is it okay to discriminate against people who happen to know which end of a razor to use? Who put time and effort into their appearance? Who enjoy clothes and makeup and fashion and cars and top 40 music, and who could care less about whether the US was right to go into Iraq or whether socialism is a better system of economics than capitalism?

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?

What is so evil about being aware of current fashion trends, and reading Vogue or Cleo instead of Time or New Scientist?
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Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?
It goes with the territory. One group creates the conditions necessary for a comfortable life, another enjoys it, oblivious. Our smugness is merely compensation for a lack of recognition.

Not evil, won't do you much good a few years from now.

I'm kind of a material person, but I consider it silly and a bit wrong for people to have material values as their prime concern in life.


It might just be that I'm a socially-minded intellectual/music nerd though.

It goes with the territory. One group creates the conditions necessary for a comfortable life, another enjoys it, oblivious. Our smugness is merely compensation for a lack of recognition.

I believe it was people many years ago that created the necessary conditions for a comfortable life. And you know what, I'm sick of people ridiculing me and my friends for the fact that we choose to dress in a certain way, and party, and enjoy life.

I don't enjoy life, oblivious, and neither do my friends. I happen to be a teacher, and most of my friends happen to be construction workers, labourers, retail staff, electricians, mechanics, and of course, teachers. Their contribution to your comfortable life is not something to be ridiculed or laughed off, because they choose not to watch CNN or BBC. Without them, you wouldn't be able to sit in your ivory towers and solve all the world's problems.

I believe it was people many years ago that created the necessary conditions for a comfortable life. And you know what, I'm sick of people ridiculing me and my friends for the fact that we choose to dress in a certain way, and party, and enjoy life.

I don't enjoy life, oblivious, and neither do my friends. I happen to be a teacher, and most of my friends happen to be construction workers, labourers, retail staff, electricians, mechanics, and of course, teachers. Their contribution to your comfortable life is not something to be ridiculed or laughed off, because they choose not to watch CNN or BBC. Without them, you wouldn't be able to sit in your ivory towers and solve all the world's problems.


I don't sit in an ivory tower, I live in the city. There are train tracks behind my house and heroin freaks down my street.

i can see why you would be annoyed at people dissing you on the street for looking good. thats probably just jealousy

but if you dont care about the world why do you come HERE?

I don't sit in an ivory tower, I live in the city. There are train tracks behind my house and heroin freaks down my street.

Hence why I was not replying to you.

There is nothing wrong with materialism; people want to have things and live comfortably. However, blind materialism is dangerous because it leads to a populace that is either unwilling or unable to take actions and precautions necessary to ensuring that these material comforts as well as the freedom to enjoy them remain...with the result quite possibly being severe hardship. The most dangerous populace is the uninformed populace.

However, there is no conflict between intellectual discussion and interest in more "mundane" things; honestly, it's impossible to be a well rounded individual without a wide variety of interests and experiences. Plus, overemphasis on one aspect of life often leads to a wide variety of social and psychological difficulties.

It's when you sacrifice your intellect and your knowledge of current events in favor of pursuing blind materialism that there is a problem, because what happens in politics, economics, or world affairs can and most likely will affect you, and being blind to the very real dangers and opportunities in the world can hurt your lifestyle quite badly. A basic comprehension of the world is necessary to maximize your ability to enjoy other things.

i can see why you would be annoyed at people dissing you on the street for looking good. thats probably just jealousy

but if you dont care about the world why do you come HERE?

I care about the world, I never said I didn't. Most people, because of the way I dress and talk, assume that I know nothing about world affairs or international relations, or politics. I don't like that assumption. I also don't like seeing my friends ridiculed because they care more about John Howard taking away government assistance, or making it harder for them to do their jobs than they do about the war in Iraq, or the refugees, or the Palestinian elections.

Their contribution to your comfortable life is not something to be ridiculed or laughed off, because they choose not to watch CNN or BBC. Without them, you wouldn't be able to sit in your ivory towers and solve all the world's problems.
I help make sure countries have electricity. I don't own a television. Ivory tower, solving the world's problems? Last week I was doing electrical testing on control panels. But yeah. And creating the conditions for a comfortable life is a daily task, actually.

I believe it was people many years ago that created the necessary conditions for a comfortable life. And you know what, I'm sick of people ridiculing me and my friends for the fact that we choose to dress in a certain way, and party, and enjoy life.

I don't enjoy life, oblivious, and neither do my friends. I happen to be a teacher, and most of my friends happen to be construction workers, labourers, retail staff, electricians, mechanics, and of course, teachers. Their contribution to your comfortable life is not something to be ridiculed or laughed off, because they choose not to watch CNN or BBC. Without them, you wouldn't be able to sit in your ivory towers and solve all the world's problems.Hmm.. I'm nonmaterialistic and I do enjoy life. Maybe your peception that you need those material things is what's holding you back.

I'm not saying I live without material things but I don't need fashion or flash to be happy and I recognize that overt consumption has a price and usually someone less fortunate pays it. So I live with less, help those less fortunate when I can and am happy with who I am.

I could buy a new car and the latest styles but why? My old van gets me where I need to go when I don't ride my bike and my simple old clothes are comfortable. Besides I like making people have to look beyond my appearance to see the real me.

If they can't do that, they're probably not worth knowing...

I care about the world, I never said I didn't. Most people, because of the way I dress and talk, assume that I know nothing about world affairs or international relations, or politics. I don't like that assumption. I also don't like seeing my friends ridiculed because they care more about John Howard taking away government assistance, or making it harder for them to do their jobs than they do about the war in Iraq, or the refugees, or the Palestinian elections.

Okay, we'll be going nowhere like this, time for a new element


A) Get over it.
B) Go out and stop it
c) Go shopping and keep on complaining about it.



P.S. On another note, hey cool! I'm Sometimes Deadly!

Tsk, enough of that. We're sidelined by society and labelled as nerds for a reason. We're allowed to be smug.

Snip

Look, I tend to agree, being a teacher and all. But I don't see how this translates to the free licence to ridicule those who care more about those mundane things than about world events. I see that kind of ridiculing a lot on this forum.

I have yet to see one of my friends ridicule someone who has opinions or knowledge about the wider world. They actually respect people like you. However, I see many people who have that knowledge, ridicule and laugh at people who care more about the latest Nike shoes or Diesel jeans, or hot mobile phone than about things that don't affect them. The Danish cartoons don't affect my friend the electrician in Australia who has to work weekends doing jobs because of the bad management of Energex in Queensland.

Tsk, enough of that. We're sidelined by society and labelled as nerds for a reason. We're allowed to be smug.Get off the sidelines and demand playing time!

Hmm.. I'm nonmaterialistic and I do enjoy life. Maybe your peception that you need those material things is what's holding you back.

I'm not saying I live without material things but I don't need fashion or flash to be happy and I recognize that overt consumption has a price and usually someone less fortunate pays it. So I live with less, help those less fortunate when I can and am happy with who I am.

I could buy a new car and the latest styles but why? My old van gets me where I need to go when I don't ride my bike and my simple old clothes are comfortable. Besides I like making people have to look beyond my appearance to see the real me.

If they can't do that, they're probably not worth knowing...

I never said that I needed those material things to enjoy life. But they are how I choose to enjoy life. I LIKE clothes. I LIKE looking good. I help those less fortunate all the time. I loan money, I help my friends move, I volunteer at my sports club, I give my clothes and old toys to a friend who can't afford them for her children. But my appearance, my wearing makeup and shopping and buying clothes and drinking coffee in cafes is part of who I am. I have a right to do those things without getting ridiculed for them. Without getting told I'm a terrible, vacuous, shallow person for them.

Look, I tend to agree, being a teacher and all. But I don't see how this translates to the free licence to ridicule those who care more about those mundane things than about world events. I see that kind of ridiculing a lot on this forum.

I have yet to see one of my friends ridicule someone who has opinions or knowledge about the wider world. They actually respect people like you. However, I see many people who have that knowledge, ridicule and laugh at people who care more about the latest Nike shoes or Diesel jeans, or hot mobile phone than about things that don't affect them. The Danish cartoons don't affect my friend the electrician in Australia who has to work weekends doing jobs because of the bad management of Energex in Queensland.

Because the lastest Nike sheos don't have any possible effect on something that might end up in history books, or that you'll even remeber a decade from now. your freind should be worried about Energex and Queenland, not shoes.

I never said that I needed those material things to enjoy life. But they are how I choose to enjoy life. I LIKE clothes. I LIKE looking good. I help those less fortunate all the time. I loan money, I help my friends move, I volunteer at my sports club, I give my clothes and old toys to a friend who can't afford them for her children. But my appearance, my wearing makeup and shopping and buying clothes and drinking coffee in cafes is part of who I am. I have a right to do those things without getting ridiculed for them. Without getting told I'm a terrible, vacuous, shallow person for them.

what do you want more? your stuff, or respect? If you want stuff, deal with the ridicule. Seriously, deal with it, you think only you people get ridiculed for no good reason? Have some kinda civil rights protest, or get over it.

Look, I tend to agree, being a teacher and all. But I don't see how this translates to the free licence to ridicule those who care more about those mundane things than about world events. I see that kind of ridiculing a lot on this forum.

That's wrong, and I would personally never do it unless their opinions were hateful/bigoted, and even then I would attempt to show them that their opinions were wrong through facts rather than insults. However, people should always make sure they have some footing in regard to an event before forming an opinion on it. Opinions driven by lack of knowledge, or even worse sensationalized bits, are the worst kind.

I have yet to see one of my friends ridicule someone who has opinions or knowledge about the wider world. They actually respect people like you. However, I see many people who have that knowledge, ridicule and laugh at people who care more about the latest Nike shoes or Diesel jeans, or hot mobile phone than about things that don't affect them. The Danish cartoons don't affect my friend the electrician in Australia who has to work weekends doing jobs because of the bad management of Energex in Queensland.

There's nothing wrong with being interested in those things; companies wouldn't make them if we didn't want them...and they are interesting. Honestly, for all of the time I spend discussing politics on here, I very rarely do so offline unless someone else brings it up...it's refreshing to talk about other things.

In regard to your friend, the issues he deals with are as important as any other. If anything, pocketbook issues are the most important because they affect everything else around you personally...you can't enjoy material things or do many fun things without money, and without free time you can't enjoy those things or discuss politics or current events.

Look, I tend to agree, being a teacher and all. But I don't see how this translates to the free licence to ridicule those who care more about those mundane things than about world events. I see that kind of ridiculing a lot on this forum.

I have yet to see one of my friends ridicule someone who has opinions or knowledge about the wider world. They actually respect people like you. However, I see many people who have that knowledge, ridicule and laugh at people who care more about the latest Nike shoes or Diesel jeans, or hot mobile phone than about things that don't affect them. The Danish cartoons don't affect my friend the electrician in Australia who has to work weekends doing jobs because of the bad management of Energex in Queensland.The Danish cartoons don't effect me either... directly.

But the world is getting smaller and most events do effect us all in some small way. Knowing a bit about the world you have to live in is simply a favorable survival trait.


It's only one small planet, but if it's fucked up, where will you and your offspring live?

Because the lastest Nike sheos don't have any possible effect on something that might end up in history books, or that you'll even remeber a decade from now. your freind should be worried about Energex and Queenland, not shoes.

They're part of the culture of our time and are an emblem of our economic system; if anything, cultural trends provide the best window in to the values and experiences of an era.

Tsk, enough of that. We're sidelined by society and labelled as nerds for a reason. We're allowed to be smug.

I was a nerd all through high school. Trust me, I understand. It wasn't until I matured a little that I began to see what I am talking about now. I started to become fashion conscious, I began to wear makeup, and all of a sudden, people started treating me like an idiot. They laughed at me, told me I'd be better off going shopping and leaving the important stuff to people who actually knew what they were talking about, and to go touch up my lip gloss. The same people who a few years before treated me with respect at the forums on homelessness in Brisbane city that I went to, and the Security Council and debating competitions I participated in.

Get off the sidelines and demand playing time!

I cbf. I never liked being the centre of attention all that much anyway.

I was a nerd all through high school. Trust me, I understand. It wasn't until I matured a little that I began to see what I am talking about now. I started to become fashion conscious, I began to wear makeup, and all of a sudden, people started treating me like an idiot. They laughed at me, told me I'd be better off going shopping and leaving the important stuff to people who actually knew what they were talking about, and to go touch up my lip gloss. The same people who a few years before treated me with respect at the forums on homelessness in Brisbane city that I went to, and the Security Council and debating competitions I participated in.
Then they're morons for judging you on nothing more than your appearance, plain and simple.

It's only the "its not cool to be interested in politics so I won't be" attitude that annoys me, really. I'm sorry, but it's extremely irritating when some of us would like to see society (and by extension, the world) changed for the better, but most people - the people with the power to help such change and make a real difference - couldn't give two shits.

They're part of the culture of our time and are an emblem of our economic system; if anything, cultural trends provide the best window in to the values and experiences of an era.

Then this era sucks far as I can see it, I doubt it ends up in a history book though.

I was a nerd all through high school. Trust me, I understand. It wasn't until I matured a little that I began to see what I am talking about now. I started to become fashion conscious, I began to wear makeup, and all of a sudden, people started treating me like an idiot. They laughed at me, told me I'd be better off going shopping and leaving the important stuff to people who actually knew what they were talking about, and to go touch up my lip gloss. The same people who a few years before treated me with respect at the forums on homelessness in Brisbane city that I went to, and the Security Council and debating competitions I participated in.

Alright, WHAT is the misunderstanding here?

Then they're morons for judging you on nothing more than your appearance, plain and simple.



Yes people are morons, donn't expect that to change soon, so adapt, thicken the skin or shed the frills.

I never said that I needed those material things to enjoy life. But they are how I choose to enjoy life. I LIKE clothes. I LIKE looking good. I help those less fortunate all the time. I loan money, I help my friends move, I volunteer at my sports club, I give my clothes and old toys to a friend who can't afford them for her children. But my appearance, my wearing makeup and shopping and buying clothes and drinking coffee in cafes is part of who I am. I have a right to do those things without getting ridiculed for them. Without getting told I'm a terrible, vacuous, shallow person for them.I don't know you enough to call you shallow and vacuous.

But I like looking good too, only I don't feel the need for latest fashion and makeup to do it. I just stay in shape and keep myself clean.

Guess what? It works, I look good.

But I suspect what you really are talking about is projecting a specific image not just looking 'good'...

All I can say about that is you may just have to suck it up and accept the price for that image...

what do you want more? your stuff, or respect? If you want stuff, deal with the ridicule. Seriously, deal with it, you think only you people get ridiculed for no good reason? Have some kinda civil rights protest, or get over it.

See this is what I am talking about. Now imagine if I said:

"What do you want more, your culture or respect? Seriously, deal with it, you think only you people get ridiculed for no good reason? Have some kinda civil rights protest or get over it."

What if I replaced it with race, or religion, or political belief? What's the difference?

I happen to walk a line where I care about the world, but I also care about having nice things, fashionable clothes, wearing makeup. Why does that mean I don't deserve respect as a person?

Try living/staying in India for a while. You'll *quickly* realize that materialism has its roots in sanity. However, people are shallow when posessions and clothes are all they concern themselves with. Having stuff is good, but it shouldn't be the focus.

The Danish cartoons don't affect my friend the electrician in Australia who has to work weekends doing jobs because of the bad management of Energex in Queensland.
Damn right. I missed out too, because I had to go away on business. Sometimes you just have to prioritise.

As for how people treat you, just deal with the generalisations. People learn that I'm an engineer, they form the opinion that I'm some sort of nerd. People learn that I play online games, they form the opinion that I'm some sort of violent fantasist. People learn that I hike and run, they form the opinion that I'm some sort of masochist. It's all quite misleading until they get to know the rest of the story. Thus I avoid making judgements regarding others. But defensiveness and a persecution complex are spotted easily.

Then this era sucks far as I can see it, I doubt it ends up in a history book though.

I don't know; I think we're really at the tipping point of a period of rapid technological, social, and economic change comparable to the start of the Industrial Revolution in the 18th century. If anything, this is one of the most important parts of the "Information Revolution" that has been germinating since the development of the first minicomputers.

See this is what I am talking about. Now imagine if I said:

"What do you want more, your culture or respect? Seriously, deal with it, you think only you people get ridiculed for no good reason? Have some kinda civil rights protest or get over it."

What if I replaced it with race, or religion, or political belief? What's the difference?

I happen to walk a line where I care about the world, but I also care about having nice things, fashionable clothes, wearing makeup. Why does that mean I don't deserve respect as a person?

African-American, proud of it, I get it already. I choose culture, I don't need their respect, so I get over it, how about you? I never said you don't deserve it, but you aren't about to get it, so get over it. or change it. Liberal, and i choose that over respect, so i get over the ridicule. Atheist, and I choose that, so I get over being called a godless heathen. Now, what do you pick? Because complaints are old.

I don't know; I think we're really at the tipping point of a period of rapid technological, social, and economic change comparable to the start of the Industrial Revolution in the 18th century. If anything, this is one of the most important parts of the "Information Revolution" that has been germinating since the development of the first minicomputers.

If we can get past fundies trying to stop the ungodly science, otherwise we'll just fall back down the hill we've climbed.

I don't know you enough to call you shallow and vacuous.

But I like looking good too, only I don't feel the need for latest fashion and makeup to do it. I just stay in shape and keep myself clean.

Guess what? It works, I look good.

But I suspect what you really are talking about is projecting a specific image not just looking 'good'...

All I can say about that is you may just have to suck it up and accept the price for that image...

It's not an image, it's part of who I am. I wear makeup. I don't judge girls who don't. I wear fashionable clothes because I like fashion. Not because I'm a fashion plate who runs out and buys the latest fashion because everyone else is wearing it (example: short shorts are really in at the moment - I am aware of this, however I look terrible in them, therefore I choose not to wear them). I like the feeling of going into a change room and trying on clothes. I love carrying home all my new clothes and planning out when I'm going to wear them, and talking about them. It's not an image. It's who I am. And I'm sick of getting ridiculed for it.

African-American, proud of it, I get it already. I choose culture, I don't need their respect, so I get over it, how about you? I never said you don't deserve it, but you aren't about to get it, so get over it. or change it. Liberal, and i choose that over respect, so i get over the ridicule. Atheist, and I choose that, so I get over being called a godless heathen. Now, what do you pick? Because complaints are old.

*Standing F-ing Ovation* Right On!!

It's not an image, it's part of who I am. I wear makeup. I don't judge girls who don't. I wear fashionable clothes because I like fashion. Not because I'm a fashion plate who runs out and buys the latest fashion because everyone else is wearing it (example: short shorts are really in at the moment - I am aware of this, however I look terrible in them, therefore I choose not to wear them). I like the feeling of going into a change room and trying on clothes. I love carrying home all my new clothes and planning out when I'm going to wear them, and talking about them. It's not an image. It's who I am. And I'm sick of getting ridiculed for it.

Get over it. Again, I repeat this, you aren't about to change yourself, the world isn't changing anytime soon. Remaining choice? Get over it.

And not just materialism. Why is it so bad that some people care more about their car, or makeup, or clothing than about what some Danish newspaper did, or who won the Palestinian elections?

Why do people feel a need to trash me in the street, and make assumptions about my knowledge of the world, because I like to wear a denim miniskirt and makeup?

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?
You have every right to totally ignore anything you choose, and to be just as materialistic as you like. Anyone who "trashes you in the street" is simply being unkind and abusive.

One thing you have to keep in mind regarding this forum is that many of the people posting here fancy themselves intellectuals, which in many cases means they somehow have the right to look down their noses at those whom they percieve as not intellectual. I was invited to leave a thread on here simply because I had the sheer audacity to question the practicality of something, the OP telling me that "this thread is for intellectuals, please leave." :rolleyes:

If you have no interest in politics or intenational relations or religion, that's certainly your perogative. But you should expect some few others to look at you as though you have no ability to think.

Then they're morons for judging you on nothing more than your appearance, plain and simple.

It's only the "its not cool to be interested in politics so I won't be" attitude that annoys me, really. I'm sorry, but it's extremely irritating when some of us would like to see society (and by extension, the world) changed for the better, but most people - the people with the power to help such change and make a real difference - couldn't give two shits.

I hate people who make a choice not to be informed, because of a particular image they are trying to put out. But some people just don't like it. Some people love their cars. Some people love clothes. Some people love politics. There is nothing wrong with any of them.

It's not an image, it's part of who I am. I wear makeup. I don't judge girls who don't. I wear fashionable clothes because I like fashion. Not because I'm a fashion plate who runs out and buys the latest fashion because everyone else is wearing it (example: short shorts are really in at the moment - I am aware of this, however I look terrible in them, therefore I choose not to wear them). I like the feeling of going into a change room and trying on clothes. I love carrying home all my new clothes and planning out when I'm going to wear them, and talking about them. It's not an image. It's who I am. And I'm sick of getting ridiculed for it.

THE MORE YOU TALK, the more utterly, utterly, UTTERLY shallow you appear. *Retch*

If we can get past fundies trying to stop the ungodly science, otherwise we'll just fall back down the hill we've climbed.

Every revolution has had its reactionary element trying to stop it, but the inexorable march towards technological progress that has characterized humanity since its development of agriculture and writing has ensured they will be overcome as soon as enough people realize how invaluable the technology has.

Even so, today's fundies are nothing more than a weak shadow of their predecessors during Galileo's or Copernicus' time. Even Islamic fundamentalists are ultimately fighting a losing battle, and will eventually be defeated as well. The key is to never waver from our commitment to innovation.

THE MORE YOU TALK, the more utterly, utterly, UTTERLY shallow you appear. *Retch*
And you should insult her because ... ???

I was invited to leave a thread on here simply because I had the sheer audacity to question the practicality of something, the OP telling me that "this thread is for intellectuals, please leave." :rolleyes:
Wow. That really is stupid. :eek:

*Standing F-ing Ovation* Right On!!

*bow* thank you milady, and has our patron saint missed this?

Every revolution has had its reactionary element trying to stop it, but the inexorable march towards technological progress that has characterized humanity since its development of agriculture and writing has ensured they will be overcome as soon as enough people realize how invaluable the technology has.

Even so, today's fundies are nothing more than a weak shadow of their predecessors during Galileo's or Copernicus' time. Even Islamic fundamentalists are ultimately fighting a losing battle, and will eventually be defeated as well. The key is to never waver from our commitment to innovation.

I suppose your right, but they do throw a bit of a wrench in things, slows us up a bit.

You have every right to totally ignore anything you choose, and to be just as materialistic as you like. Anyone who "trashes you in the street" is simply being unkind and abusive.

One thing you have to keep in mind regarding this forum is that many of the people posting here fancy themselves intellectuals, which in many cases means they somehow have the right to look down their noses at those whom they percieve as not intellectual. I was invited to leave a thread on here simply because I had the sheer audacity to question the practicality of something, the OP telling me that "this thread is for intellectuals, please leave." :rolleyes:

If you have no interest in politics or intenational relations or religion, that's certainly your perogative. But you should expect some few others to look at you as though you have no ability to think.
This thread is for intellectuals, please leave.:D

I hate people who make a choice not to be informed, because of a particular image they are trying to put out. But some people just don't like it. Some people love their cars. Some people love clothes. Some people love politics. There is nothing wrong with any of them.

Sure, they help the economy, not everyone sees that, because people are stupid, and that's something to be dealt with, one way or another.

Wow. That really is stupid. :eek:

Elitism creates a discussion environment as blind and repressive as ignorance...the only difference is to whom each label applies.

I suppose your right, but they do throw a bit of a wrench in things, slows us up a bit.

I guess changing the world can never be easy; at least those people only slow us down rather than stop us entirely...

You have every right to totally ignore anything you choose, and to be just as materialistic as you like. Anyone who "trashes you in the street" is simply being unkind and abusive.

One thing you have to keep in mind regarding this forum is that many of the people posting here fancy themselves intellectuals, which in many cases means they somehow have the right to look down their noses at those whom they percieve as not intellectual. I was invited to leave a thread on here simply because I had the sheer audacity to question the practicality of something, the OP telling me that "this thread is for intellectuals, please leave." :rolleyes:

If you have no interest in politics or intenational relations or religion, that's certainly your perogative. But you should expect some few others to look at you as though you have no ability to think.

Thanks for informing me. I'll bear that in mind...

Maybe we should start an "average persons thread - no intellectuals allowed".

And you should insult her because ... ???

Not an insult. Just as I see it. I'll explain: She talks and talks about how cruel the world is to her because she likes material things. She says she's not shallow. Then she proceeds to be about as shallow as it's possible to be. "I AM my clothes. Makeup is WHO I am." (not a direct quote). *yech*

This thread is for intellectuals, please leave.:D
This thread was started by a materialist, please bite my ass! :D

Not an insult. Just as I see it. I'll explain: She talks and talks about how cruel the world is to her because she likes material things. She says she's not shallow. Then she proceeds to be about as shallow as it's possible to be. "I AM my clothes. Makeup is WHO I am." (not a direct quote). *yech*
So you don't like it. That still doesn't give you the right or the justification for insulting her. Where's all that "tolerance" you leftist dweebs are constantly carping about, eh???

Thanks for informing me. I'll bear that in mind...

Maybe we should start an "average persons thread - no intellectuals allowed".

Or you could, you know, ignore every intellectual posts...like....you know....MINE that I still wait for you to answer because I'd love to see you squirm, flee or admit you're wrong. (That last one never happens)

Thanks for informing me. I'll bear that in mind...

Maybe we should start an "average persons thread - no intellectuals allowed".
LOL! Perhaps so. The problem with that would be trying to define what an "average" person is. :D

I guess changing the world can never be easy; at least those people only slow us down rather than stop us entirely...

Here here! To our scientists! Muddling through!

Or you could, you know, ignore every intellectual posts...like....you know....MINE that I still wait for you to answer because I'd love to see you squirm, flee or admit you're wrong. (That last one never happens)
I've always thought it would be very comforting to always be correct about everything and be able to look down my nose at others. Unfortunately, I care too much about others to do so.

I hate people who make a choice not to be informed, because of a particular image they are trying to put out. But some people just don't like it. Some people love their cars. Some people love clothes. Some people love politics. There is nothing wrong with any of them.
Good, we agree on that point at least.

And there is nothing inherently wrong about that, only when it reaches an irrational point. Everyone does it to some degree. I collect music, for example. I however don't see this as more important to my life than any other matter. There are situations where i'd be happy to give up whatever I own if it would achieve some desired effect.

For some people, this isn't possible and their possessions - or want of possessions - dominate their life beyond all. This is the "materialism" that upsets me.

As for not liking politics, I confess that at times I find it an incredibly dull and dreary affair. This doesn't remove the fact that politics is something that I feel everyone should be involved in, because there is no way you can get out of it affecting your life.

(sorry if i'm not very clear. I had to rewrite that a few times for it to vaguely make sense. I haven't slept for a while.)

I've always thought it would be very comforting to always be correct about everything and be able to look down my nose at others. Unfortunately, I care too much about others to do so.

Never said I was correct about everything, but I've a good feeling about this one, and our good lady jade seems to feel the same way.

So you don't like it. That still doesn't give you the right or the justification for insulting her. Where's all that "tolerance" you leftist dweebs are constantly carping about, eh???

I'm tolerant, greatly so.. but in the face of Phenominal Contradictions I do not idly stand by to let the hypocracy continue unabated. If that makes me a "leftist" then.. so what? That makes you "right," then. Be glad.

Not an insult. Just as I see it. I'll explain: She talks and talks about how cruel the world is to her because she likes material things. She says she's not shallow. Then she proceeds to be about as shallow as it's possible to be. "I AM my clothes. Makeup is WHO I am." (not a direct quote). *yech*

Actually, I was simply saying that those things are component parts of who I am. In reply to someone who suggested that I was putting out an image. I also happen to have an interest in world affairs, Shakespeare, and can speak Japanese. I studied Linguistics at university, alongside my education degree. I belonged to my school's debating team, played clarinet and tenor saxophone, and did Girl guides and brownies. I made my state team in my chosen sport as a junior. I could go on and on about all the component parts of my personality. I am hoping to start an Amnesty International student group at the school I am working at. But as the OP and the discourse in this thread would imply, I am discussing the assumptions made about me and my friends because of one particular part of our personalities. Hence the focus on that specific part to the exclusion of all the others.

Now, why don't you stop making assumptions about me and insulting me based on my comments about one specific part of my personality?

Actually, I was simply saying that those things are component parts of who I am. In reply to someone who suggested that I was putting out an image. I also happen to have an interest in world affairs, Shakespeare, and can speak Japanese. I studied Linguistics at university, alongside my education degree. I belonged to my school's debating team, played clarinet and tenor saxophone, and did Girl guides and brownies. I made my state team in my chosen sport as a junior. I could go on and on about all the component parts of my personality. I am hoping to start an Amnesty International student group at the school I am working at. But as the OP and the discourse in this thread would imply, I am discussing the assumptions made about me and my friends because of one particular part of our personalities. Hence the focus on that specific part to the exclusion of all the others.

Now, why don't you stop making assumptions about me and insulting me based on my comments about one specific part of my personality?


I DID THAT ALREADY! Read it! Honestly, you just want us all to feel sorry for you like Eut, well you're not so lucky, you're not some lonely suffering tormented soul, can you get that? Or maybe you are that shallow, and you really can't understand that, which would make these peoples assumptions correct, so prove them wrong and speak on it.

I'm tolerant, greatly so.. but in the face of Phenominal Contradictions I do not idly stand by to let the hypocracy continue unabated. If that makes me a "leftist" then.. so what? That makes you "right," then. Be glad.
No, it makes me correct.

Your arrogance is showing.

Actually, I was simply saying that those things are component parts of who I am.

And I say you minimize yourself. You're obviously a bright person. Your clothes are NOT what draws people to you. YOU are. Not the clothes, not the makeup. Your personality, your intelligence. You're not made of clothes. You're made of things that are priceless. That's all I wanted to say.

African-American, proud of it, I get it already. I choose culture, I don't need their respect, so I get over it, how about you? I never said you don't deserve it, but you aren't about to get it, so get over it. or change it. Liberal, and i choose that over respect, so i get over the ridicule. Atheist, and I choose that, so I get over being called a godless heathen. Now, what do you pick? Because complaints are old.

Was this the post to which you were referring?

I think that everyone deserves respect, no matter what their choices. I respect anyone who makes any choice. I also don't ridicule people who make other choices than me. And I don't really see what my culture, religion or political bias has to do with my getting respect.

And I say you minimize yourself. You're obviously a bright person. Your clothes are NOT what draws people to you. YOU are. Not the clothes, not the makeup. Your personality, your intelligence. You're not made of clothes. You're made of things that are priceless. That's all I wanted to say.


Potterpuppetpals.com! Watch Dumbledore! And then say it's not about the clothes.

And I say you minimize yourself. You're obviously a bright person. Your clothes are NOT what draws people to you. YOU are. Not the clothes, not the makeup. Your personality, your intelligence. You're not made of clothes. You're made of things that are priceless. That's all I wanted to say.

Yeah I know. I am far more than the sum of my parts. Something many people on here and in real life don't seem to recognise.

Was this the post to which you were referring?

I think that everyone deserves respect, no matter what their choices. I respect anyone who makes any choice. I also don't ridicule people who make other choices than me. And I don't really see what my culture, religion or political bias has to do with my getting respect.

Okay, now listen here. I AGREE. but what people deserve isn't what they always get, and isn't what you get, and complaints are not gonna solve your propblems, fixing it or getting over it is. So pick one of those and do it.

I think that everyone deserves respect, no matter what their choices. I respect anyone who makes any choice. I also don't ridicule people who make other choices than me. And I don't really see what my culture, religion or political bias has to do with my getting respect.
Any human being deserves respect and compassion simply because they are. It's the state of being, not the degree of some illusory "intellectualism."

Or maybe you are that shallow, and you really can't understand that, which would make these peoples assumptions correct, so prove them wrong and speak on it.

Dinaverg, I feel my time is wasted here. I'm moving on. Good luck *cough*

Dinaverg, I feel my time is wasted here. I'm moving on. Good luck *cough*

I think I can get it, thanks. *nod*

I DID THAT ALREADY! Read it! Honestly, you just want us all to feel sorry for you like Eut, well you're not so lucky, you're not some lonely suffering tormented soul, can you get that? Or maybe you are that shallow, and you really can't understand that, which would make these peoples assumptions correct, so prove them wrong and speak on it.

I never said I was a lonely, suffering, tormented soul. I was ranting. I also don't want people to feel sorry for me, and I don't see that Eutrusca does. I see that he sees the hypocrisy in whining leftists and rightists arguing that they are so unfairly ridiculed and put upon in society, and then accusing anyone who takes an interest in things other than politics of being vacuous and shallow.

By the way, you need to learn to use commas.

You're obviously a bright person.

That's not what you were saying before, by the by.

Caring about how one looks and the other things you mentioned is not bad, evil or any other negative adjective. It the worship of those things that turns it into materialism. At least that is what it means to me. I really doubt that you worship the material world.

That's not what you were saying before, by the by.
I see you're not in need of any help. :D

That's not what you were saying before, by the by.

One last reply, then. Because you didn't show it.

I see you're not in need of any help. :D

No, but I appreciate it all the same. :D

One last reply, then. Because you didn't show it.

Gee, thanks for proving my point about assumptions.

I never said I was a lonely, suffering, tormented soul. I was ranting. I also don't want people to feel sorry for me, and I don't see that Eutrusca does. I see that he sees the hypocrisy in whining leftists and rightists arguing that they are so unfairly ridiculed and put upon in society, and then accusing anyone who takes an interest in things other than politics of being vacuous and shallow.

By the way, you need to learn to use commas.

Yeah, I get that idea from you telling everyone about your problems, as though only you and your friends have them. Yes, the ridicule is unfair, but it's not about to go away on it's own, so go out and stop it, stop bringing it on yourself, or get over it.

And yes, I overuse them. I do it whenever I would pause when I'm talking, maybe I don't need it, maybe I need something else, maybe I need a preriod in somespots, but this doesn't seem the time for that. It's apparently not so bad as to stop you from reading it, but you still seem to miss the point.

Gee, thanks for proving my point about assumptions.

And my point, people make assumptions, and you don't like it, so options:


1) Stage a protest and stop the assumptions.
2) Lose the frills and stop the assumptions towards you.
3) Get over it.


So. What do you choose? Complain is no longer an option *though you'lll do it anyways*

I am leftist and very tolerant of others' viewpoints and actions. Doesn't mean I can't insult them or poke fun at them.






Tolerance doesn't require being fake.

Tolerance doesn't require being fake.

Need I say more? Nope.

And my point, people make assumptions, and you don't like it, so options:


1) Stage a protest and stop the assumptions.
2) Lose the frills and stop the assumptions towards you.
3) Get over it.


So. What do you choose? Complain is no longer an option *though you'lll do it anyways*

Well, I don't like protests, since they cause more problems than they solve. I'm not prepared to lose an important part of my personality. And why should I get over it. I'm quite sure you wouldn't get over it if I assumed that you were a gang member from South Central just because you were African American.

I'm allowed to say what I want on these forums as long as it complies with forum rules. I've done that. So I'm gonna complain all I like.

Well, I don't like protests, since they cause more problems than they solve. I'm not prepared to lose an important part of my personality. And why should I get over it. I'm quite sure you wouldn't get over it if I assumed that you were a gang member from South Central just because you were African American.

I'm allowed to say what I want on these forums as long as it complies with forum rules. I've done that. So I'm gonna complain all I like.


Protests are the number one way in all of history to right the wrongs of the government! How could you EVER be anti-protest?! The power to protest is arguably the greatest power an US citizen has!

I'm allowed to say what I want on these forums as long as it complies with forum rules. I've done that. So I'm gonna complain all I like.

Complain away. See who cares in the end.

Protests are the number one way in all of history to right the wrongs of the government! How could you EVER be anti-protest?! The power to protest is arguably the greatest power an US citizen has!

Agreed. Absolutely. No question.

Well, I don't like protests, since they cause more problems than they solve. I'm not prepared to lose an important part of my personality. And why should I get over it. I'm quite sure you wouldn't get over it if I assumed that you were a gang member from South Central just because you were African American.

I'm allowed to say what I want on these forums as long as it complies with forum rules. I've done that. So I'm gonna complain all I like.

Actually,yeah, I would, considering it's a stupid assumption.

And I rest my case, you're not mad, or sad, or angered, you don't want to solve your problems, just whine about them. Suddenly, it seems these people's assumptions aren't too far off in this case. I think we're done here, unless I missed something?

And I rest my case, you're not mad, or sad, or angered, you don't want to solve your problems, just whine about them. Suddenly, it seems these people's assumptions aren't too far off in this case. I think we're done here, unless I missed something?

Thank You for that. Time to return to a world of sanity and reason.

Thank You for that. Time to return to a world of sanity and reason.
Would you like directions? It's obvious you've lost your way. :)

who could care less about whether the US was right to go into Iraq or whether socialism is a better system of economics than capitalism?


There's no need to trash anyone, and I'm sure all of us are guilty of at least some materialism. But if you could care less about weighty decisions affecting the lives of millions in your own country and others...then, honestly, what did we fight for democracy for? A democracy is not just a static thing that's "there" and always will be. If its citizens are wholly apathetic, there is no way a healthy democracy is going to sustain itself.

[QUOTE=Saint Jade]

What is so inherently evil about materialism?

Domain which is unshared (public) creates an authority system. When there is difference we are fragemented. If there is a contest then there is war. War is placing the status of material over the status of peace. Thus it is inherently evil to be an authoritarian materialist. To overcome this people create dilusions of society that is a one society effecitvely individual cease to exist as objects and become dead or subjects, subject to the rule of law, creating legality. If the law is followed there is peace, if it broken there is war. Policy or edicts or proclimations are created to saw what will keep the peace, a culture of interaction is then created to insure general adherance, especially so in complex political systems with many idiocentricisties. A justice system is often established to determine what shall be done with the subjects, the justice system is based upon the higher power concept, this is eccentially derived from the father of family system, rule of the fittest etc.. of course it is another form of politics one that demonstrates what occured and how the peace can be restored if it was broken (of course modern justics and legal systems are incredibly unrealistic). The issue with a materialist system is that it is in a world of limitation where everything is owned, thus individuals are forced to be at war / criminals or the slave of someone else, freedom is a cornerstone of ideal. Lines of peace (peices) are drawn to show where jurisdiction exists and to cross it and to bring their law over other persons (those representing the subjects peace) thus war itself is creation of peace for where the will and desire are calm with one another, will being maitenance of peace and desire being the insurance of joy in striving. Of course both of these seem paradoxial problamatic. Ultimately we are sovereign and thus at peace but if we enact law then we create subjects (the dead) but if there is disagreemment then we enact justice, but are we all not sovereign, then how can we contest? It seems the qestion of ultimate peace but this is a paradox in a world of falicy. Thus desire becomes affixed to accepted action amongst peers. But ideal guides us... war does not make sense, while materialism if contested is a creator of war, we should only rule by agreement but how do we understand meaning other than following the faith our beleif? Why is desire existant this gets into religion however essential things rduced to, do we need to live? Are we to accept our death in an owned world and be subject or are we to be defendant to the whole of our sovereign world? This further extends into philosophy, what is right action, is it right to experience undesired emotion? what emotion is undisired.

If it is not public then it creates contest if desire is not fullfilled, but why desire?
Religions are founded on there principles.

I think thouhgt that the spirit trancends this, it is not just an S/R world things have meaning but we can dream and imagine, we are in a state of peace when dreaming subjects to our own thought (dead and alive), where as when we imagine we create our desire as sovereign but at peace. See ultimately we are the will of g-d, and sovereign, however, our emotion is our experience and we are to make the best experience the greatest ideal.
There is the general concept of reciprecation the empire, in that we create the emotional identity as a guide to our peace. It is the balance that we mitigate. blah blah blah......... it can't be contested. Otherwise there is a division of sovereignty and if that is the case in a conflict of state, then WAR, enter survival of the fittest. Where as use of intentional force to fullfill desire of a state of will... it aint absolute morality and that is to let everyone accomplish their dreams. But there is the qeustion of acceptance, this is very very very questionable, I cannot say I am to be the killer, I cannot say I am to be the martyr, I cannot say I am to be the spirit shroud alone thus I am left humane of ideal the unknown alpha omega the lord of all keeper of the balance, yadayada.. but there is the questsion, why do such concepts of murder exist, the execution of law, death is odd in that way. To be the killer alone is the spur to creation of authority but the paradox being athority is the killer. We must relize we are the line and we are the will and we are the desire,, we are possessed and possesor of ourself. It is occult. SC.

I could write for a long time about this but materialism (physicality as a state of difference and barrier creates the potential for conflict. what is life, baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more.



We ultimately make our own choices to who we are.

Exercise of Aesthetics and Reason as doctrine is all what makes us feel secure.

Fashion....... crazy fashion where is the hemline? A joke? We do what we feel is right but ideal states correctness of the will of g-d. Culture is culture. I am who I am, but what I know is that carring for others is the way to care for oneself, when we can spend our time planting food for the starving rather than organizing our socks we may see that others are more important than ourselves but what are we to be, I know that the doctors and peace officers are fashion police and word police if you don't follow the expectations you get killed, if you are not their head you get killed either by druging or force, unless you kill them. Why must we live in a world of conflict... it is the question of jurisdiction. this would be vary long, but why would g-d not create the most beautiful thing by default.. but is g-d alone, thus do we reject all g-d stands for? This is a matter of faith? When we give in to peace we become the will...

etc.. etc.. etc..

the empire be as we are. shalom but how can we recipricate if there is not identical action? do we recreate the emotion as a child unto father or do we strive to our desired emotion? This is very ponderous, I think in many ways it is our destiny. Manifestation of Destiny. We live and die for what is right, that is execution of life. We are all.

Would you like directions? It's obvious you've lost your way. :)

Bah, we'll do fine. We don't even need sanity as far as I'm concerned, and i think we've demonstrated our knowledge on where to find reason.

Ker-SNIP!


Woah! What was that? Deep....ish....I think.

Bah, we'll do fine. We don't even need sanity as far as I'm concerned, and i think we've demonstrated our knowledge on where to find reason.

And we've increased our post counts wonderfully in the process. ;)

And we've increased our post counts wonderfully in the process. ;)

Here here! To higher postcounts!

...about materialism?

After reading some of the posts in this forum, and particularly some directed at me, I want to know why some people feel that materialism is so inherently evil.

And not just materialism. Why is it so bad that some people care more about their car, or makeup, or clothing than about what some Danish newspaper did, or who won the Palestinian elections?

What is so wrong with caring about looking good, and wearing Rip Curl, or Sass and Bide, or Levis? What is so evil about being aware of current fashion trends, and reading Vogue or Cleo instead of Time or New Scientist?

Why do people feel a need to trash me in the street, and make assumptions about my knowledge of the world, because I like to wear a denim miniskirt and makeup?

Why is it okay to discriminate against people who happen to know which end of a razor to use? Who put time and effort into their appearance? Who enjoy clothes and makeup and fashion and cars and top 40 music, and who could care less about whether the US was right to go into Iraq or whether socialism is a better system of economics than capitalism?

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?
Oh, you're talking about *that* materialism. I thought you meant the philosophy.

Woah! What was that? Deep....ish....I think.

It was really long, and I'm tired, and while most of the time I'm dilligent and do my reading... not right now.

Here here! To higher postcounts!

..And intelligent, well-defined thought. :)

..And intelligent, well-defined thought. :)


Postcounts are more important. At the beginning of last week...




I was at 128.

We live and die for what is right, that is execution of life. We are all.

Some do. Some most assuredly don't.. just read this thread.

Postcounts are more important. At the beginning of last week... I was at 128.

I was at 100 yesterday..? Postcounts. Yeah. They're what REALLY matters. Especially in this type of thread. :)

I was at 100 yesterday..? Postcounts. Yeah. They're what REALLY matters. Especially in this type of thread. :)


This thread because it broke down in to idle chatter or because it was an insult argument?

Tsk, enough of that. We're sidelined by society and labelled as nerds for a reason. We're allowed to be smug.

Very good. Maybe if the fashion plates didn't spend so much time growing up ridiculing the nerds, the nerds in adulthood wouldn't spend so much time ridiculing them. Revenge of the Nerds movies...true then, true now.

Very good. Maybe if the fashion plates didn't spend so much time growing up ridiculing the nerds, the nerds in adulthood wouldn't spend so much time ridiculing them. Revenge of the Nerds movies...true then, true now.



The only people who truly have lives after college are either nerds or really, really lucky.

This thread because it broke down in to idle chatter or because it was an insult argument?

Idle chatter was the highlight. +1

The only people who truly have lives after college are either nerds or really, really lucky.

Life is what you make it. *nod* :)

Idle chatter was the highlight. +1

Yay idle chatter!

It snowed here this afternoon! Wheeee! Snowballs! (Not that I actually went outside, what kinda socially regressed hermit would I be then....Besides, the snow reflects the sun and makes everything too bright.)

Yay idle chatter!

It snowed here this afternoon! Wheeee! Snowballs! (Not that I actually went outside, what kinda socially regressed hermit would I be then....Besides, the snow reflects the sun and makes everything too bright.)

Socially regressed hermit, huh. If only you were older or I was younger.. *well* .. I'd change that. :p And anyway, the sun reflecting off the snow is absolutely beautful. *sigh* I love it. !!

Silly Saint Jade, you can't fool me. There's no girls on the internet.

However, I see many people who have that knowledge, ridicule and laugh at people who care more about the latest Nike shoes or Diesel jeans, or hot mobile phone than about things that don't affect them. The Danish cartoons don't affect my friend the electrician in Australia who has to work weekends doing jobs because of the bad management of Energex in Queensland.


The Danish cartoons will affect your Australian friend if Ozzie newspapers reprint the cartoon and then the Islamic world boycotts Ozzie goods, or worse, some extremist decides to blow himself up just as your friend is on his way to work.

I live just down the road from London. I remember going through Stockwell Tube station the day after paranoid police officers shot an unarmed Brazilian because they thought he was a terrorist.

A few days after the London Tube bombings I had to use the tube. that was weird. then the terrorists re-attacked. that was very very weird. It could have been me on that tube at that day.

I care about fashion, I know how to use a razor, I have some nice pointy shoes ;) but anyone who focuses only on fashion and fun really neglects what's going on in the world at their own very great intellectual and personal risk.

...about materialism?

After reading some of the posts in this forum, and particularly some directed at me, I want to know why some people feel that materialism is so inherently evil.

And not just materialism. Why is it so bad that some people care more about their car, or makeup, or clothing than about what some Danish newspaper did, or who won the Palestinian elections?

What is so wrong with caring about looking good, and wearing Rip Curl, or Sass and Bide, or Levis? What is so evil about being aware of current fashion trends, and reading Vogue or Cleo instead of Time or New Scientist?

Why do people feel a need to trash me in the street, and make assumptions about my knowledge of the world, because I like to wear a denim miniskirt and makeup?

Why is it okay to discriminate against people who happen to know which end of a razor to use? Who put time and effort into their appearance? Who enjoy clothes and makeup and fashion and cars and top 40 music, and who could care less about whether the US was right to go into Iraq or whether socialism is a better system of economics than capitalism?

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?
All things in moderation. There's nothing wrong with recognizing that we have physical bodies, physical wants, and physical needs. However, if a person becomes so infatuated with physical comforts that they neglect all other aspects of their life, then it is time to be a bit concerned.

It's just like drinking: having a few drinks because you enjoy them is nothing to be ashamed of. Drinking so heavily that you lose your job, hurt your family, and pickle your liver is something to worry about.

I believe it was people many years ago that created the necessary conditions for a comfortable life. And you know what, I'm sick of people ridiculing me and my friends for the fact that we choose to dress in a certain way, and party, and enjoy life.

I don't enjoy life, oblivious, and neither do my friends. I happen to be a teacher, and most of my friends happen to be construction workers, labourers, retail staff, electricians, mechanics, and of course, teachers. Their contribution to your comfortable life is not something to be ridiculed or laughed off, because they choose not to watch CNN or BBC. Without them, you wouldn't be able to sit in your ivory towers and solve all the world's problems.


Spoken like a true moron, believe it or not there isn't a civil war going on between intellectuals and and trade workers not that they should be seen as the opposite end of the spectrum but thats the image you gave???
anyway i enjoy life also and i wear whats comfortable as opposed to whats fashionable because it makes more sense and i think the real problom people have with you is your lack of empathy you don't give a s**t about anyone but yourself.. as long as you comfortaBLE IN YOUR BEAUTIFUL HOUSE WITH YOUR MARBLE FLOORS YOU DONT CARE ABOUT THE INEQUALITIES OR INJUSTICES IN THE WORLD THE ABUSE OF CHILDREN AND THE HORRIBLE CONDITIONS PEOPLE LIVE IN YOU SICKEN ME:mad: YOU'RE A PIECE OF SH*T WHO DOESN'T DESERVE TO LIVE BECAUSE OF YOUR IGNORANCE

I wouldn't say that there's something evil about materialism, though it can lead to other things that aren't evil.

As for the OP, I would say that people are unfairly judging you, and that sucks, however your comments about protests were just silly.
I would also suggest another option to change things if you're a creative person: satirize it. Write a book or a play about people judging you for caring about your appearance.

I would say that I don't dislike people who care about their appearances, unless they are they type of person who says "real beauty is on the inside," In which case I dislike the hypocrisy.

break my essence down into dust
and reshape it into your slave.
i live for you alone already...

Your sig says it all. You need to stop letting yourself be such a willing pawn of capitalism and start worrying about the big issues if you ask me. It's nice and easy to worry about fashion, but that will leave you with little in the end.

Spoken like a true moron, believe it or not there isn't a civil war going on between intellectuals and and trade workers not that they should be seen as the opposite end of the spectrum but thats the image you gave???
anyway i enjoy life also and i wear whats comfortable as opposed to whats fashionable because it makes more sense and i think the real problom people have with you is your lack of empathy you don't give a s**t about anyone but yourself.. as long as you comfortaBLE IN YOUR BEAUTIFUL HOUSE WITH YOUR MARBLE FLOORS YOU DONT CARE ABOUT THE INEQUALITIES OR INJUSTICES IN THE WORLD THE ABUSE OF CHILDREN AND THE HORRIBLE CONDITIONS PEOPLE LIVE IN YOU SICKEN ME:mad: YOU'RE A PIECE OF SH*T WHO DOESN'T DESERVE TO LIVE BECAUSE OF YOUR IGNORANCE



Down......down.....Calm.....Eeeeasy....Deep breaths.

Hmm.. I'm nonmaterialistic and I do enjoy life. Maybe your peception that you need those material things is what's holding you back.

I'm not saying I live without material things but I don't need fashion or flash to be happy and I recognize that overt consumption has a price and usually someone less fortunate pays it. So I live with less, help those less fortunate when I can and am happy with who I am.

I could buy a new car and the latest styles but why? My old van gets me where I need to go when I don't ride my bike and my simple old clothes are comfortable. Besides I like making people have to look beyond my appearance to see the real me.

If they can't do that, they're probably not worth knowing...

I agree. I derive happiness from my relationships with other people and experiencing life, not from owning stuff. I belive that materialism will always end in unhappiness.

And when i see hardoworking people barely struggling to get by, it hurts me. I am living in a second-world country where there is virtually no middle class, and when I see the people with their huge houses and choffeurs (sic) and then the people trying to live off of minimum wage, which is about $100 a MONTH, i wonder how those rich people can live with themselves. do they really think that they DESERVE that money more than the people who wake up at 4 am to shovel snow off the streets? Or do they simply lack all human feeling? I think people like that are a disgrace to the human race and do not deserve to live.

Materialism is ok, but you shouldn't throw a quarter at a hobo and then walk into Victoria's Secret. There are more important things than makeup and shiny cars.

What's wrong with materialism, is that it's so selfish and superficial, I mean, how can you possibly think it's important whether you wear bright pink or flashy pink today, when children are working themselves to death to make those clothes, when innocent people die because of man's stupidities, when nature is being trashed just because you would be able to drive a car with an authentic wooden interior?
Don't you see that's just wrong, you are thinking about your color of make-up while at the same time, people are struggling to survive just next door to you!!
There's nothing wrong with trying to look good, but there are limits, and materialism is waaaay past that limit, so excuse me if I offend you inb your cozy, fluffy world, where your biggest concern is if your boyfriend still likes you or not, but that's just not important!

Socially regressed hermit, huh. If only you were older or I was younger.. *well* .. I'd change that. :p And anyway, the sun reflecting off the snow is absolutely beautful. *sigh* I love it. !!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/Dragonkirby/Non-Kirby/DSC00499.jpg
Looks evil to me.

See this is what I am talking about. Now imagine if I said:

"What do you want more, your culture or respect? Seriously, deal with it, you think only you people get ridiculed for no good reason? Have some kinda civil rights protest or get over it."

What if I replaced it with race, or religion, or political belief? What's the difference?

I happen to walk a line where I care about the world, but I also care about having nice things, fashionable clothes, wearing makeup. Why does that mean I don't deserve respect as a person?

Oh, so fashion is a religion now? I think that people ridicule you because you take yourself so f*cking seriously.

my hatred of you is not an intellectual thing, its a moral thing.

Why is it okay to discriminate against people who happen to know which end of a razor to use? Who put time and effort into their appearance? Who enjoy clothes and makeup and fashion and cars and top 40 music, and who could care less about whether the US was right to go into Iraq or whether socialism is a better system of economics than capitalism?

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?
Way to stereotype! I can be both fashionable and intellectual. But remember that when you wear brand name clothes, buy cars, etc you are declaring that you believe capitalism to be superior.

Also remember that it was politically active people who shaped your world. Without them you wouldn't have brand names, fashion, or even peace and prosperity.

What is so wrong with caring about looking good, and wearing Rip Curl, or Sass and Bide, or Levis? What is so evil about being aware of current fashion trends, and reading Vogue or Cleo instead of Time or New Scientist?
Actually I'd like to ask you why so many people who are materialistic feel the need to attack those who dress differently to them, party with other people and at other places, and take different drugs to them?

Why do so many materialists declare themselves to be individualists, but in fact act like conformist maniacs?

It's inherently evil because it's compounded self-indulgence, coming at the expense of the world that allows it to exist at all.

Way to stereotype! I can be both fashionable and intellectual. But remember that when you wear brand name clothes, buy cars, etc you are declaring that you believe capitalism to be superior.

Also remember that it was politically active people who shaped your world. Without them you wouldn't have brand names, fashion, or even peace and prosperity.

I must be misunderstanding you here. If a communist buys a car, he is declaring capitalism superior? :D

Oh, so fashion is a religion now? I think that people ridicule you because you take yourself so f*cking seriously.
Dude, ANYTHING is less silly than superstition. I haven't the slightest interest in fashion, nor have I ever, but I would ridicule a person much more for having strong religious beliefs than I would ridicule somebody for having strong fashion-related beliefs. I mean, even if you are an utter brand-whore, at least the brand really does exist.

But remember that when you wear brand name clothes, buy cars, etc you are declaring that you believe capitalism to be superior.


Capitalism IS superior! Yay for capitalism! :D

I must be misunderstanding you here. If a communist buys a car, he is declaring capitalism superior? :D
Communists may need cars sometimes, but the people who buy a brand new flashy car every year are basically declaring the greatness of capitalism.

Dude, ANYTHING is less silly than superstition. I haven't the slightest interest in fashion, nor have I ever, but I would ridicule a person much more for having strong religious beliefs than I would ridicule somebody for having strong fashion-related beliefs. I mean, even if you are an utter brand-whore, at least the brand really does exist.
Brands don't exist any more than religions. Especially nowadays, that the brands are merely images and text on paper and fabric (like religion), whereas the clothes are made by other companies.

Wow, I really struck a nerve.

For the record, I happen to be a teacher. I happen to see every day the kinds of dumb obsession over owning "things" that you are talking about. I hate it as much as you do. The problem for me comes when someone who works to keep YOUR car running, YOUR electricity working, YOUR plumbing functioning, is ridiculed because he would rather spend his hard earned money on a night out on the town or an iPod than posting a care package to Asia.

You people go on and on about the political activists changing the world. But without all the little people, you wouldn't have the ability to do that.

Way to stereotype! I can be both fashionable and intellectual. But remember that when you wear brand name clothes, buy cars, etc you are declaring that you believe capitalism to be superior.

Also remember that it was politically active people who shaped your world. Without them you wouldn't have brand names, fashion, or even peace and prosperity.

Most of my friends don't even know what capitalism is. They don't care about making political statements. They have no interest in it.

Without my friends, politically active people would be living without cars, without working toilets, without computers, air conditioners, heaters, furniture, houses. Politically active people may shape the world, but it's those people you look down on who build it.

Spoken like a true moron, believe it or not there isn't a civil war going on between intellectuals and and trade workers not that they should be seen as the opposite end of the spectrum but thats the image you gave???
anyway i enjoy life also and i wear whats comfortable as opposed to whats fashionable because it makes more sense and i think the real problom people have with you is your lack of empathy you don't give a s**t about anyone but yourself.. as long as you comfortaBLE IN YOUR BEAUTIFUL HOUSE WITH YOUR MARBLE FLOORS YOU DONT CARE ABOUT THE INEQUALITIES OR INJUSTICES IN THE WORLD THE ABUSE OF CHILDREN AND THE HORRIBLE CONDITIONS PEOPLE LIVE IN YOU SICKEN ME:mad: YOU'RE A PIECE OF SH*T WHO DOESN'T DESERVE TO LIVE BECAUSE OF YOUR IGNORANCE


This is flaming I believe. Consider yourself reported to the moderation forum.

Your sig says it all. You need to stop letting yourself be such a willing pawn of capitalism and start worrying about the big issues if you ask me. It's nice and easy to worry about fashion, but that will leave you with little in the end.

Great so now my sig's under attack. You wanna know something, you don't know where that came from, or what it means so don't even go there.

And I am entitled to be a willing pawn of capitalism. I'm well aware of most big issues, and was the only one in my high school who actually knew slavery still existed.

And yes, it is nice and easy to worry about fashion. Thats one of the reasons I do it. I buy shoes and clothes and put on make-up because I have to deal every day with children who spent several years locked in cupboards. Children who are so ignored at home that they are happy to have you yell and scream at them for half an hour, because someone is actually looking at them without telling them to f*ck off. I deal every day with issues in this first world, that you ignore. You ignore the children in the first world who go through shit. I am the one who deals with it. And you know what, I think the people who look after their own, instead of spitting on them are far more noble than those who worry about the poor child soldiers in Africa, while the kid up the road cops another beating.

Without my friends, politically active people would be living without cars, without working toilets, without computers, air conditioners, heaters, furniture, houses. Politically active people may shape the world, but it's those people you look down on who build it.No they wouldn't. Your airhead friends aren't the only ones who keep this world going.

Don't lump all us bluecollar/skilled workers in with you and your friends.

Some of us give a shit what happens in this world.

...because I have to deal every day with children who spent several years locked in cupboards. Children who are so ignored at home that they are happy to have you yell and scream at them for half an hour, because someone is actually looking at them without telling them to f*ck off. I deal every day with issues in this first world, that you ignore. You ignore the children in the first world who go through shit. I am the one who deals with it. And you know what, I think the people who look after their own, instead of spitting on them are far more noble than those who worry about the poor child soldiers in Africa, while the kid up the road cops another beating.

It's not so much the domestic violence on the news as the child traffic of Africa because of the scale of things. Several of my friends are social workers, a job far more related to that topic than yours, and they're just as interested (if not a little more) in NEPAD and other developmental projects in Africa.

Here in Finland, domestic abuse in the East is on an ungodly level, it is so easy to escape a sentence for rape that it makes it more worthwhile than dating, and there is little that can be done, as these problems have always existed. Africa was once a very wealthy continent, and it was the materialist, colonial Europeans who arrived for gold, diamonds, fuel, etcetera and plunged her into poverty.

As a few others have said already, get over yourself.

No they wouldn't. Your airhead friends aren't the only ones who keep this world going.

Don't lump all us bluecollar/skilled workers in with you and your friends.

Some of us give a shit what happens in this world.

Yeah, which is what I'm talking about. My friends from middle-class professional families made the automatic assumption that because one of my friends cared about his car, he couldn't possibly care about any other issues. One of my friends even went so far as to suggest that people without a university degree shouldn't be allowed to vote because they never were informed enough to make a proper decision.

People are entitled to care about things you perceive as idiotic. I happen to think that religious belief is the most patently ridiculous thing ever created. I don't laugh at and ridicule those who have it. I happen to believe that the teenage goths I see leading each other around on dog chains need their parents to pay them some attention; I don't act like their choices in life are any less valid than mine. I hate drug taking with a violent passion; I don't judge the people around me who do drugs as being lower-order beings.

So go screw yourselves. Live in your little world and pretend that you're better because you know the name of the Iranian president, and your electrician doesn't.

No they wouldn't. Your airhead friends aren't the only ones who keep this world going.

Don't lump all us bluecollar/skilled workers in with you and your friends.

Some of us give a shit what happens in this world.

As a small time contractor I have to say, he's hit it on the head.

You know what, thanks everyone for proving my point. I really appreciate it.

It is the fact that people like you wank on about how much you care about the world, and how important it is to be aware of things that makes me less interested in caring about what goes on outside my front door.

Go screw yourselves.

Why is it so bad that some people care more about their car, or makeup, or clothing than about what some Danish newspaper did, or who won the Palestinian elections?

That's not "materialism" you're speaking about, but egoism and selfishness. Materialism is about rationality and scientific evaluation of the world we live in. Most of what Marx did was a materialist study of history and capitalism.

Only caring for your own self and not caring about the rest of the world is just that: selfishness. And that's definetly "evil" according to my moral compass, and to the moral compass of almost every human cultures that ever existed.

It's also not very wise even for yourself, because those little things you think to care a lot a about (makeup and dress and whatever) won't change radically your life, while a change of economical system, or the consequences of global warming will affect it after more (for the better or for the worse).

That's not "materialism" you're speaking about, but egoism and selfishness.

No, it's "apathy." If I don't care about Iranian elections as much as I care about my life, it's because "world issues" don't have much impact on me, and because I'm practical. Is that "egoism?" Maybe so, but then so is your going around condemning other people as being "evil" according to your standards.

No, it's "apathy." If I don't care about Iranian elections as much as I care about my life, it's because "world issues" don't have much impact on me, and because I'm practical. Is that "egoism?" Maybe so, but then so is your going around condemning other people as being "evil" according to your standards.

Yeah, maybe I should have had apathy in the thread title. That makes more sense. And that's what I was getting at.

Yeah, maybe I should have had apathy in the thread title. That makes more sense. And that's what I was getting at.

Materialism isn't bad either, though.

...about materialism?

After reading some of the posts in this forum, and particularly some directed at me, I want to know why some people feel that materialism is so inherently evil.

And not just materialism. Why is it so bad that some people care more about their car, or makeup, or clothing than about what some Danish newspaper did, or who won the Palestinian elections?

What is so wrong with caring about looking good, and wearing Rip Curl, or Sass and Bide, or Levis? What is so evil about being aware of current fashion trends, and reading Vogue or Cleo instead of Time or New Scientist?

Why do people feel a need to trash me in the street, and make assumptions about my knowledge of the world, because I like to wear a denim miniskirt and makeup?

Why is it okay to discriminate against people who happen to know which end of a razor to use? Who put time and effort into their appearance? Who enjoy clothes and makeup and fashion and cars and top 40 music, and who could care less about whether the US was right to go into Iraq or whether socialism is a better system of economics than capitalism?

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?

I think the reson people on NS seem so much like how you're describing us is the years spent with people insulting them because things like fashion don't mean so much to them. So basically they're on the defensive and NS is a great place to whinge cause most people are the same.

There's nothing wrong with wearing Ripcurl, the problem is when you think you're better because you are wearing Ripcurl.

Uh the problem with caring more about your make up than world events is that people's lives are affected by world events. They can determine whether or not people die.

And just as you say "who could care less about whether the US was right..." Well maybe you couldn't care less, but I do. If you don't want to read about that or talk about that then that's ok. I'm giving you the freedom to spend your time how you want. And if I want to spend my spare time chatting bout world events, you don't need to read it.

:)

PS Yeah I agree that people shouldn't judge you by what clothes you're wearing (miniskirt and make up don't mean you're dumb) but that's the wayt he world always has been and although it's sad i can't see it changing anytime soon:(

No, it's "apathy." If I don't care about Iranian elections as much as I care about my life,

There is a huge gap between "not caring as much as I care about my life" and "I don't care at all about it but cares a lot about my makeup". Caring about your own life is perfectly normal and sane. I would care more about something threatening my life than about the elections in Iran. But you have to balance the caring for yourself and for others. Else, it's selfishness, which is the primary source of evil.

As Einstein said: "the world is dangerous to live, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who watch and let do".

it's because "world issues" don't have much impact on me, and because I'm practical.

They do. If your country goes to war against Iran because of the result of the elections, it'll affect you a lot (at least economically). If the oil price goes up because of the Iran crisis, it'll affect you too. And so on.

Is that "egoism?" Maybe so, but then so is your going around condemning other people as being "evil" according to your standards.

Egoism is caring only about yourself. Caring about yourself is all fine, if you care also for others.

Now, I don't consider *people* to be evil, but *acts* to be evil. The fact of caring for your makeup more than for state of the world is something I can all "evil", it doesn't mean I'll call "evil" any person doing it. A human being is not defined by a single act and attitude, and I don't call "evil" people without very good reasons to do so. After all, if I call selfishness "evil", it's because I love my fellow human beings, even with their faults (and I don't claim I'm perfect either, I know I'm far from it).

There is a huge gap between "not caring as much as I care about my life" and "I don't care at all about it but cares a lot about my makeup". Caring about your own life is perfectly normal and sane. I would care more about something threatening my life than about the elections in Iran. But you have to balance the caring for yourself and for others. Else, it's selfishness, which is the primary source of evil.

...again, according to you. I'm not an anticapitalist though, so I don't see selfishness as the root of all evil. In fact, I see selfishness as the root of life itself.


They do. If your country goes to war against Iran because of the result of the elections, it'll affect you a lot (at least economically). If the oil price goes up because of the Iran crisis, it'll affect you too. And so on.

...and the Danish cartoons, how will that affect me?

Sometimes I wonder why I bother to read threads on this messageboard, but then I come across one like this that is just too damn funny.

Just a thought for Saint Jade, have you heard of the monkey sphere? Basically it is a psycological analasis of society based on one centeral fact: the human brain is incapable of thinking of more than 250 people at any one time as people. Steriotypes are the only way it can function. And I hate to break it to you, but the majority of the materialistic masses are stupid, vaccuous and vain; or at least that is the impression they give to the world. That is the reason why they are thought of as they are.


Also, remember that those classed intelectuals have a bad time of it also. I may just be 15, but when I try and have a conforsation with the average person on the street they look at me with something bordering of surprise and disgust and say: "Yo posh boi, go fuck yo mumma", or something. It goes both ways, the snobbery or equivilent.

(sorry for the spelling, I am utterly useless at it)

I've never heard of that, but it's a really interesting concept. Do you have any links to online articles?

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?

Why one should ever get over their intellectual superiority? If you are superior to someone, then they're inferior to you and should have lower position.

I thought this thread had been pretty well hijacked but it looks like people are still posting on topic.

Though I'm pretty sure Saint Jade is gone.

Why one should ever get over their intellectual superiority? If you are superior to someone, then they're inferior to you and should have lower position.

How can you define superior ?

And even if you were "superior", then feel lucky of it, and instead of using this "superiority" to crush those less lucky thatn you, use this superiority to help them. That would be the only real "superiority" that would have a meaning: your ability to use your skills to help your bretheren. But then, it would stop to be "superiority" ;)

How can you define superior ?

http://www.dictionary.com

That's the definition of the word "superior", which I do understand. But it's no way a definition of how you can define "superior" in the context of human being. Superior is basically a BRO (binary relationship of order), and I ask you how you define it on the set of human beings, which criteria you use, how you measure them, how you rank them, ...

And for that, I claim there is no valid definition.

You're in France so it's a decent hour for you, but in California it's two AM and I have no idea what you just said.

I've never heard of that, but it's a really interesting concept. Do you have any links to online articles?

Here is one of the many sites on it: http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html

BTW: Just checked, it is 150, not 250

Neato. Thanks.

...about materialism?

After reading some of the posts in this forum, and particularly some directed at me, I want to know why some people feel that materialism is so inherently evil.

And not just materialism. Why is it so bad that some people care more about their car, or makeup, or clothing than about what some Danish newspaper did, or who won the Palestinian elections?

What is so wrong with caring about looking good, and wearing Rip Curl, or Sass and Bide, or Levis? What is so evil about being aware of current fashion trends, and reading Vogue or Cleo instead of Time or New Scientist?

Why do people feel a need to trash me in the street, and make assumptions about my knowledge of the world, because I like to wear a denim miniskirt and makeup?

Why is it okay to discriminate against people who happen to know which end of a razor to use? Who put time and effort into their appearance? Who enjoy clothes and makeup and fashion and cars and top 40 music, and who could care less about whether the US was right to go into Iraq or whether socialism is a better system of economics than capitalism?

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?

Maybe people discriminate against people who concern themselves with materialism because being concerned with materialism is a luxury that not everyone can afford. Maybe my disdain for people who concern themselves with the latest Nike shoe has something to do with the thought of the person who made the Nike shoe but can't afford it.
If I were to insult someone for being materialistic, I expect it would be because I find materialism insulting. Apathy or ignorance doesn't grant anyone the right to avoid being ridiculed, especially when I consider that being ridiculed is a small price to pay for being alive and being more concerned with how one looks than whether other people have food to eat.
So, to anyone supporting materialism, I say go ahead and be materialistic, but I wouldn't be suprised if there aren't many people banging down your door to tell you what a great person you are.

whats wrong with materialism is that materialism is the "worship" of material posessions.

The idea that the posessions people have determine their worth.

I personally value people who make the world work more then people who live off the work of the rest of society and so have a BMW or a Jag.

Spoken like a true moron, believe it or not there isn't a civil war going on between intellectuals and and trade workers not that they should be seen as the opposite end of the spectrum but thats the image you gave???
anyway i enjoy life also and i wear whats comfortable as opposed to whats fashionable because it makes more sense and i think the real problom people have with you is your lack of empathy you don't give a s**t about anyone but yourself.. as long as you comfortaBLE IN YOUR BEAUTIFUL HOUSE WITH YOUR MARBLE FLOORS YOU DONT CARE ABOUT THE INEQUALITIES OR INJUSTICES IN THE WORLD THE ABUSE OF CHILDREN AND THE HORRIBLE CONDITIONS PEOPLE LIVE IN YOU SICKEN ME:mad: YOU'RE A PIECE OF SH*T WHO DOESN'T DESERVE TO LIVE BECAUSE OF YOUR IGNORANCE

Warned for flaming. Knock it off.

...about materialism?

After reading some of the posts in this forum, and particularly some directed at me, I want to know why some people feel that materialism is so inherently evil.

And not just materialism. Why is it so bad that some people care more about their car, or makeup, or clothing than about what some Danish newspaper did, or who won the Palestinian elections?

What is so wrong with caring about looking good, and wearing Rip Curl, or Sass and Bide, or Levis? What is so evil about being aware of current fashion trends, and reading Vogue or Cleo instead of Time or New Scientist?

Why do people feel a need to trash me in the street, and make assumptions about my knowledge of the world, because I like to wear a denim miniskirt and makeup?

Why is it okay to discriminate against people who happen to know which end of a razor to use? Who put time and effort into their appearance? Who enjoy clothes and makeup and fashion and cars and top 40 music, and who could care less about whether the US was right to go into Iraq or whether socialism is a better system of economics than capitalism?

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?

If everyone people were like you, then there wouldn't be anyone angry enough to be a terrorist, or join the military, or fight any wars.

We'd all spend our time being fashionably good-looking.

Why Is It So Evil? Because People Don't Realize That When We Die, None Of Our Material Possesions Matter Anymore.

Materialsim isn't bad, it just isn't good.

To put it simply. And no, the're NOT the same thing.

Yeah, which is what I'm talking about. My friends from middle-class professional families made the automatic assumption that because one of my friends cared about his car, he couldn't possibly care about any other issues. One of my friends even went so far as to suggest that people without a university degree shouldn't be allowed to vote because they never were informed enough to make a proper decision. It's possible to care about materialistic things and still care about other things. But some issues require more than lip service if you really care. Some of these are at odds with materialism.

If you're happy being who you are, fine for you. But don't get bent when people call you shallow. If the shoe fits...

People are entitled to care about things you perceive as idiotic. I happen to think that religious belief is the most patently ridiculous thing ever created. I don't laugh at and ridicule those who have it. I happen to believe that the teenage goths I see leading each other around on dog chains need their parents to pay them some attention; I don't act like their choices in life are any less valid than mine. I hate drug taking with a violent passion; I don't judge the people around me who do drugs as being lower-order beings.You make a snap judgement about those teenage goths and then claim you don't judge people. Nice. I suppose being a teacher gives you the ability to decide a persons problems simply by assessing their dress.

Or is it your sharply honed sense of fashion that gives you this ability ...?

So go screw yourselves. Live in your little world and pretend that you're better because you know the name of the Iranian president, and your electrician doesn't.I don't pretend anything. And I don't assume my electrician doesn't know the Iranian Presidents name. The only person equating blue collar/skilled labor with a lack of knowledge or depth of understanding in this thread is you.

Obviously you missed the point of my last post and still somehow percieve this straw man arguement as valid.

...about materialism?

After reading some of the posts in this forum, and particularly some directed at me, I want to know why some people feel that materialism is so inherently evil.

And not just materialism. Why is it so bad that some people care more about their car, or makeup, or clothing than about what some Danish newspaper did, or who won the Palestinian elections?

What is so wrong with caring about looking good, and wearing Rip Curl, or Sass and Bide, or Levis? What is so evil about being aware of current fashion trends, and reading Vogue or Cleo instead of Time or New Scientist?

Why do people feel a need to trash me in the street, and make assumptions about my knowledge of the world, because I like to wear a denim miniskirt and makeup?

Why is it okay to discriminate against people who happen to know which end of a razor to use? Who put time and effort into their appearance? Who enjoy clothes and makeup and fashion and cars and top 40 music, and who could care less about whether the US was right to go into Iraq or whether socialism is a better system of economics than capitalism?

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?

I think like all things it's about balance. Materialism to a degree is good for the economy, so long as you attitude isn't to get your 'materials' at any cost. If you want to drive a BMW (which suck in my opinion), more power to you. However, if you're in a store beating up another lady so you can get your kid a tickle-me Elmo then it's a problem. Find balance.

Other people should be balanced as well. They don't have a right to ridicule you simply because you value different things than they do.

For the record, I have a ten-foot screen in my house that I watched the superbowl on while drinking pepsi and eating tostidos. I drive a caddy and I wear designer clothes. At the same time, I actively work for equal rights and I donate several hours a week to charity. I even received an award from the city for community service (I won't tell you what for because it's embarassing). And I don't think there is a person here who would say I'm uneducated on the issues.

Again, it's all about balance. I would question the value of the opinion of a person that judges you by looking at you anyway.

There is a huge gap between "not caring as much as I care about my life" and "I don't care at all about it but cares a lot about my makeup". Caring about your own life is perfectly normal and sane. I would care more about something threatening my life than about the elections in Iran. But you have to balance the caring for yourself and for others. Else, it's selfishness, which is the primary source of evil.

No, the source of all evil is thinking there is only one way to live one's life and that you can dictate that way. I have never heard of any really dangerous person who didn't think what they were doing would make the world a better place and anyone who disagreed was evil. Pat Robertson cares very much about his fellow man, and I would say he is patently dangerous. He is dangerous because he suggests that things must be his way and that anyone who doesn't agree is leading us down the path of evil. When people like that get any power, I'll be fighting on the other side every time.

You've demonstrated quite clearly who's really dangerous in this thread.

Our world is not a world of absolutes. I watch you all attacking her and I notice that the only 'evil' occuring here is the thought-policing being done.

my hatred of you is not an intellectual thing, its a moral thing.

Wow. Hatred. Seriously. How said that you don't have better things to focus your energy on than hating a girl on the internet who is not hurting you in any way. Hating people for caring about something you don't agree with is your version of morality, you can have it.

I think like all things it's about balance. Materialism to a degree is good for the economy, so long as you attitude isn't to get your 'materials' at any cost. If you want to drive a BMW (which suck in my opinion), more power to you. However, if you're in a store beating up another lady so you can get your kid a tickle-me Elmo then it's a problem. Find balance.

Other people should be balanced as well. They don't have a right to ridicule you simply because you value different things than they do.

For the record, I have a ten-foot screen in my house that I watched the superbowl on while drinking pepsi and eating tostidos. I drive a caddy and I wear designer clothes. At the same time, I actively work for equal rights and I donate several hours a week to charity. I even received an award from the city for community service (I won't tell you what for because it's embarassing). And I don't think there is a person here who would say I'm uneducated on the issues.

Again, it's all about balance. I would question the value of the opinion of a person that judges you by looking at you anyway.

I think that's what I'm trying to say. I'm by no means suggesting that being vapid and shallow and caring only about make-up or clothes is the way to go, or that there's nothing wrong with it. I'm just saying that there is nothing wrong with wearing Roxy, or Billabong instead of op-shop clothes, or driving a Skyline instead of taking the train. That just because someone happens to wear Quiksilver, it doesn't necessarily make them shallow, vapid and vacuous. Just because someone has more of an interest in the latest model Evo, it doesn't mean they have no interest in anything else. And that it's not wrong to have more interest in your car than in politics or world issues, as long as you take an interest in the issues that affect you.

Wow. Hatred. Seriously. How said that you don't have better things to focus your energy on than hating a girl on the internet who is not hurting you in any way. Hating people for caring about something you don't agree with is your version of morality, you can have it.

And, after our last little debate, you're the last person I expected to stand up for me. Thanks :D :fluffle: !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Jade
Yeah, maybe I should have had apathy in the thread title. That makes more sense. And that's what I was getting at.

Materialism isn't bad either, though.

Yeah, that's about right. I'd urge people to take an interest in the wider world and care about things like international politics, but each to their own. If a person really doesn't want to know, then back off, don't judge them and leave them the hell alone.

And, it would be of great benefit to all those guys and gals out their who are obsessed about world politics, the energy crises etc, to lighten up every now and then and go have a bit of retail therapy. Go splurge on a new TV. Go book a holiday in the some somwhere and forget about the world around you. It's fun :)

...again, according to you. I'm not an anticapitalist though, so I don't see selfishness as the root of all evil. In fact, I see selfishness as the root of life itself.



...and the Danish cartoons, how will that affect me?

Depends upon where you live/who you're employed by.

Say, for example, you are a shipping agent based in Tehran. Your biggest customer could be Maersk. A Danish firm. They get kicked out of Iran owing to the political tension and you lose your job. That's one example, but the ongoing row over the cartoons will afflict many people in many ways in ways they've never thought about.

I think that's what I'm trying to say. I'm by no means suggesting that being vapid and shallow and caring only about make-up or clothes is the way to go, or that there's nothing wrong with it. I'm just saying that there is nothing wrong with wearing Roxy, or Billabong instead of op-shop clothes, or driving a Skyline instead of taking the train. That just because someone happens to wear Quiksilver, it doesn't necessarily make them shallow, vapid and vacuous. Just because someone has more of an interest in the latest model Evo, it doesn't mean they have no interest in anything else. And that it's not wrong to have more interest in your car than in politics or world issues, as long as you take an interest in the issues that affect you.

Ah jeez....the fact that this is still going...

...about materialism?

...

Why can't you get over yourselves and your intellectual superiority?

Because people are judgemental @$$ holes. That is the ONLY true reason.

Most of my friends don't even know what capitalism is. They don't care about making political statements. They have no interest in it.
How do people not know what capitalism is if they live and work in it?

Without my friends, politically active people would be living without cars, without working toilets, without computers, air conditioners, heaters, furniture, houses. Politically active people may shape the world, but it's those people you look down on who build it.
Who says I look down on anyone? You've created an a victim complex that doesn't exist.

Why do you think that I can't do anything for myself just because I'm politically active?

You people go on and on about the political activists changing the world. But without all the little people, you wouldn't have the ability to do that.
Wtf? Little people? Do you think I live in an ivory tower or something? I'm just a student who wants to do his bit to make things better for myself and others in the world. I'm not some kind of self-proclaimed king.


Go screw yourselves.
This is flaming. We've really hit a nerve, haven't we? ;)

Your problem is that you assume that anyone who cares about issues outside their own locality is an elitist, when that is not the case at all.

Wow. Hatred. Seriously. How said that you don't have better things to focus your energy on than hating a girl on the internet who is not hurting you in any way. Hating people for caring about something you don't agree with is your version of morality, you can have it.

^^^ ditto ^^^