NationStates Jolt Archive

Question, mainly geared towards Americans, but everyone welcome to apply, please do not make this your "I HATE GEORGE BUSH" or "I LOVE GEORGE BUSH" thread, that will ruin it. Hoping for some inteligent conversation.. What are your thoughts on the State of the Union address?

my thoughts....

Pretty good speech, Bush is definitely a much stronger speaker than when he was initially elected. The State of the Union is always so powerful, with both houses of Congress present, the Supreme Court, the entire cabinet, and then the magical words, "MR SPEAKER, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!!" sends a smile to the face, and a shiver up the spine, regardless of what side of the aisle you are on. I was very impressed with the comments about less fossil fuel dependence on the middle east. Your thoughts?? Please try to be semi-objective, we all have our own personal beliefs, but was looking for some discussion...

I got chills myself. My family always watches the State of the Union Address regardless of what party is in power.

It was impressive and he did have some good ideas. Hopefully Congress will act upon those.

He said America could produce all the fuel it needed, by fermenting grass. :rolleyes:

He enjoys no credibility in the energy business, except as a source of tax breaks.

I was pleased with his commitment to training more science and math teachers, and what sounded like a rebuff to protectionists and people advocating restrictions on free competition. Hopefully, this will translate in to an expansion of the H1-B visa program and more free trade deals, in particular one with South Korea.

Overall, it improved my opinion of him somewhat.

He said America could produce all the fuel it needed, by fermenting grass. :rolleyes:

He enjoys no credibility in the energy business, except as a source of tax breaks.

Sure he does. Oil, coal and Nuclear love him.

Did you see that a bunch of researchers for alternative energy in the Department of Engergy were let go the very next day? Budget cuts.....

I just hate every speech that contains words like "evil", "freedom" and "god".

He's got nothing as a speaker - he is simply a cheap pundit appealing to American exceptionalism.

I didn't actually see the address, but I did see an online article earlier in the day declaring that Bush would say "America is addicted to oil" in the speech. The way the aticle presented it it seemed like the fact that he talked about energy was going to be overpromoted, without necessarily any sort of real elaboration or actual commitment.

Sure he does. Oil, coal and Nuclear love him.

Triple threat...however, it appears that we're not really adding any more oil power anymore; it seems like natural gas, coal, and renewables make up the bulk of it.

Did you see that a bunch of researchers for alternative energy in the Department of Engergy were let go the very next day? Budget cuts.....

I think that was probably planned a year or so ago in the budget, so it wasn't really an option to reverse it easily. Worst. Timing. Ever. though.

Question, mainly geared towards Americans, but everyone welcome to apply, please do not make this your "I HATE GEORGE BUSH" or "I LOVE GEORGE BUSH" thread, that will ruin it.
But what fun is that? :p As for the speech, I think he came across as arrogant and everything he always is, but I think his speech writer (forgot the name, but works in a dungeon under the White House) did a pretty good job, and he was well-rehearsed as there were'nt any verbal mishaps.

Sure he does. Oil, coal and Nuclear love him.

Did you see that a bunch of researchers for alternative energy in the Department of Engergy were let go the very next day? Budget cuts.....
No, they love the relaxed regulatory framework provided by the government. The man himself is viewed with ridicule. A useful idiot, as it were. ;)

He said America could produce all the fuel it needed, by fermenting grass. :rolleyes:

He enjoys no credibility in the energy business, except as a source of tax breaks.


To be honest, the President of the United States doesn't need to enjoy Credibility in the energy business. That is the job of the private sector. The President merely advises/suggests for new policies that are put forth by Congress on energy bills. Name one US President that was considered "credible in the energy business"......

I do respect your opinion (not trying to be rude) just curious as to your strong stance taken.

No, they love the relaxed regulatory framework provided by the government. The man himself is viewed with ridicule. A useful idiot, as it were. ;)

Are they not the best kind?

I do respect your opinion (not trying to be rude) just curious as to your strong stance taken.
Scientific ignorance. Every government in every country has its "useful idiots", but they know never to comment on technical detail. This guy is embarrassing to listen to, if you have a clue when it comes to the subject area.

Funny that he is telling the US that they are addicted to oil, when his family -- and his friends -- are all involved in what business?

Oh, did he mean foreign oil?

Oh, did he mean foreign oil?

Hell yeah; honestly, if we could meet all of our demand for oil domestically, we wouldn't have to develop alternative energy for a good while longer. :p

Funny that he is telling the US that they are addicted to oil, when his family -- and his friends -- are all involved in what business?

Oh, did he mean foreign oil?

No, he was right on the money, the US is the biggest consumer of oil in the world, followed closely by China. The idea behind the speech is that the US needs to find alternative fossil fuels, to not only relieve our burdon on foreign oil, but to relieve our dependency on oil as a whole. I thought it was a great step in the right direction, and I think environmental groups and US businesses alike will back this idea.

No, he was right on the money, the US is the biggest consumer of oil in the world, followed closely by China. The idea behind the speech is that the US needs to find alternative fossil fuels, to not only relieve our burdon on foreign oil, but to relieve our dependency on oil as a whole. I thought it was a great step in the right direction, and I think environmental groups and US businesses alike will back this idea.

The annoying thing is that he will probably claim this as his own idea and imply that he was the first person to ask for more alternative energy research, sort of like how he somehow got himself connected with the Mars program.

The annoying thing is that he will probably claim this as his own idea and imply that he was the first person to ask for more alternative energy research, sort of like how he somehow got himself connected with the Mars program.

The even more annoying thing as that nobody is willing to give the guy credit for anything.... We need education reform, Bush proposes some, and everybody says its not good enough, but never throws out any of their own ideas... We need alternate fossil fuels, the President announces research for just that, and everone says ist not good enough, but never throws a single idea of their own. Its the party of no that we could hear more from, but they never throw out an idea...

I was very impressed with the comments about less fossil fuel dependence on the middle east.

First off, talk is cheap. It may be nice, but it's cheap. Action. Action is needed. Money. Start snooping around and see how much money$ we've spent on alternative fuel research, such as Hydrogen in cars. Zero. May as well be zero. I wish it was more, but I don't think it will be more until the sh*t hits the fan, frankly. But anyway I try to remain positive and open-minded.

Yeah I saw a little clip of it on the news the other night, the whole 'we are addicted to middle eastern oil' line made me laugh. Far out, you guys have to wait like a year or something for answers from your leader, we do every week, it's called Parliament question time:)

Yeah I saw a little clip of it on the news the other night, the whole 'we are addicted to middle eastern oil' line made me laugh. Far out, you guys have to wait like a year or something for answers from your leader, we do every week, it's called Parliament question time:)

We don't really have to wait a year for answers, per say... The state of the union is just that, an annual report, to tell the world the state of the Union that is the 50 wonderful states... The president speaks on at least his weekly address to the nation, sometimes more often when something big happens. It is more a tradition, a celebration, a time to throw out sort of a "wish list" for the coming year..

Did anybody catch the inconsistency in his address? I mean when he is going on and on about how we are fighting terror and are holding the high ground(which isnt the same as winning, mind you), and then he turns around and says...

"But our enemies capabilities are by no means reduced."(Or something to that extent)

THEN WHAT THE F-U-C-K HAVE YOU BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS!? WHAT WAS IRAQ ABOUT?!

What was an oil man doing suggesting America should lose it's dependance on forien oil and not suggesting domestic oil as an alternitive?

The State of the Union is always so powerful, with both houses of Congress present, the Supreme Court, the entire cabinet, and then the magical words, "MR SPEAKER, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!!" sends a smile to the face, and a shiver up the spine, regardless of what side of the aisle you are on.

it must be weird to believe in the governing institutions of a nation. i think maybe i'd like to try it someday, just to see where people are coming from when they say stuff like this.

I just want to know if anyone remembered that drinking game and figured out how many shots they'd need to take.

The even more annoying thing as that nobody is willing to give the guy credit for anything.... We need education reform, Bush proposes some, and everybody says its not good enough, but never throws out any of their own ideas... We need alternate fossil fuels, the President announces research for just that, and everone says ist not good enough, but never throws a single idea of their own. Its the party of no that we could hear more from, but they never throw out an idea...

The speech, in and of itself, was unexceptional - a mishmash of about three different campaign speeches glued together with no central positive message or proposal, more a laundry list of separate bits. The fact that math and science education funding got cut the day after he said he was going to raise it makes that part of the speech worse than useless; it makes it evidence of his perfidy. Same with cutting alternative energy research after the SotU promised to increase that funding.

As for Bush getting credit for what he says... The problem isn't with what he says, it's with what he does.

Ted Kennedy wrote an education reform bill. Bush took it, revised it slightly and cut the funding, and called it No Child Left Behind. Then he cut several billion more from the educational budget the other day for good measure. That's your 'party of no', originating one of the pieces of legislation Bush claimed as one of his top successes - before the GOP made it useless.

Joe Lieberman wrote a national security bill. Bush took the Lieberman National Security Act, renamed it the PATRIOT Act, and took out the bits about allocating resources to the most vulnerable areas in favor of distributing it on a per-capita basis. Likewise, Lieberman authored the original 35-page document that was eventually laden with pork and created the Homeland Security Agency. There's your 'party of no' again, coming up with ways to protect the country before the majority party buried them in political considerations.

George Bush said in the SotU that the US was going to research alternative energy sources, and within the day his energy department said the exact opposite while budgets for alternative energy research got cut. (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=23074) That's real creditworthy. Same thing with the infamously misnamed 'Healthy Forests' and 'Clear Skies' initiatives.

Given that the GOP hasn't let Democratic bills reach the floor anyhow, the only action available is preventing the corrupt Republicans from their worst excesses - sometimes the only positive thing you can do is prevent evils.

Bah, sounded like Every other speech he's given.

As a side note did any one eles hear him say 'we are a very good president'?

I was surprised at the relatively conciliatory tone. I liked what he had to say about alternative energy and math/science funding; and no matter how hypocritical this is coming from him, it does create expectations that he will have to address somehow. It seemed he backed away quite bit from "let's privatize social security" last year. Bush is probably better than the Democrats on trade & immigration in general anyway. And he didn't strike as bellicose a tone toward Iran as I'd expected, although he left some openings for himself there. Of course he defended the wars and the illegal wiretappings; no surprise there. In terms of rhetorical quality, I'd give it a "B+" (would be higher if not for the extent to which it did represent a "laundry list") ... and I think of Bush as a "C-" speaker on average.

The Democratic response by Gov. Kayne (sp?) gets a "B+" for rhetorical quality, but there was no substance to it whatsoever (unless you want to count a few dubious practical accomplishments in Virginia).

I was appalled by how at the beginning he honored coretta scott king and then went on to boast the necessity of unwarrented survielence when the kings had been blackmailed with information taken from unwarrented wiretaps by government agencies.
Also how at the end he touted the supposed values of martin luther king when he stands blatantly against much of what dr. king fought for.

I just want to know if anyone remembered that drinking game and figured out how many shots they'd need to take.

I don't know, man. I played and I was really fucking drunk by the end, and I was just taking a sip of beer for each thing.
I had to go back and listen to it again the next day to get a good idea of anything he said during the second half.