NationStates Jolt Archive

I prefer this one:

"Better to be a ruler of hell than a servant of heaven."

As Neil Gaiman wrote "Milton wrote that. And Milton was blind"

Or even this one: "Question boldly even the existence of a God, for if thou art wrong, he shall surely approve more of reason over blindfold fear." ---Thomas Jefferson

I like that one though. Judging by the evidence (ie/ state of the world and organised religion, that if there were a god, he'd have a hand in) i don't quite believe it, but it does sum up the slightly naive optimism and idealism that i associate with ole Tom.

I prefer this one:

"Better to be a ruler of hell than a servant of heaven."



Actually, he was misquoted. He was actually making a very long and tortured metaphor when he said "Better to be a ruler in Hell than a sextant in Heaven." Sadly, the context has been lost.

Actually, he was misquoted. He was actually making a very long and tortured metaphor when he said "Better to be a ruler in Hell than a sextant in Heaven." Sadly, the context has been lost.

and of course, people misunderstand that Richard III was actually running a camping store...

"Now is the winter of our discount tents"

(Note: Kreen has a post that dances around this matter, but we have to deal with it full on.)

Atheists, agnostics, evolutionists, and false prophets sure do have some big words against the God of the Bible, the true God. A lot of them come to NS with derogatory remarks which is fine--they know they need Jesus, that's why they keep diving into the arguments. They know hell ain't no fairy tale.

Atheists say, "There is no god," like they know what exists in every speck of the universe. The Bible says, "The FOOL hath said in his heart, 'There is no God'." In actuality, there is no such thing as a "real atheist". Here's an illustration which can be used on any atheist.

1. Ask him if he knows every single fact about every manmade system just on this earth--criminal law, civil law, heart surgery, biology, teaching, being a garbage man, computer programming, ants, engineering, woodcutting, business, every person's social security number by heart, etc. He will have to tell you no, he doesn't know every single fact.

2. Ask him what percentage he knows of all the knowledge to be known in the entire known universe like what is happening in the core of Mars--right now. What is the temperature of that star that hubble is about to approach, etc. He'll have to tell you he knows practically 0% of the knowledge to be known in the entire universe. I then say, "So in other words you know practically nothing." The answer must be yes.

Imagine all the knowledge of the Universe as a chalk board, with a tiny, infinitesmally small speck on it. That can represent how much the atheist knows. Imagine a giant X on that board, representing God who exists in the vast space OUTSIDE the atheists extremely limited knowledge.

There is no such thing as an atheist because no human being knows everything and has all knowledge as we've demonstrated. Neither can any person be everywhere at the same time. For a person to be able to confidently say, "There is no God," he'd have to know EVERYTHING that existed EVERYWHERE--and no human being fits that bill. There is no atheist. At the very BEST a person can say, "I'm agnostic" although this is not true either...

That is both the weakest and most intricately retarded argument I have ever heard.

and of course, people misunderstand that Richard III was actually running a camping store...

"Now is the winter of our discount tents"

And Hamlet was pondering some self-therapy to deal with his depression.

"To beat, or not to beat..."

Becoming a drummer was a tradition for Danish princes, you understand.

Atheists like using this definition a lot, but to believe in something because you think it's false, is a contradiction. Belief in the absence of something, is still a belief regardless of how you want to twist it.

If you'd actually read the definition it says atheists lack belief in gods, not what you've said at all. The only ones twisting the definition are those that are scared by the fact that there are people who live perfectly well without their particular superstition.

A theistic analogy would be "I only worship one god" vs "I only worship the god." The former does not state there are other gods nor does it state there aren't, it applies with equal truth to monotheists and polytheists who consder only one god of their pantheon worthy of worship. The later claims there is only one god. Furthermore, neither statement applies to all theists (some will more (or less for monomaltheists) than one (of the) god(s) they believe in.)

Personally, I'm a hard agnostic, (barely) soft atheist. I have no knowledge of gods (and apparently no one else does either) and I don't believe any exist. I can't assent to the theists claims without evidence and to date, none has been presented. Many beliefs and even more assertions but, NO evidence. Put simply, show me something that requires god(s) to exist and I'll no longer be an atheist. (I still don't guarentee I'll worship but, at least I'll be able to acknowledge existance.)

And Hamlet was pondering some self-therapy to deal with his depression.

"To beat, or not to beat..."

Becoming a drummer was a tradition for Danish princes, you understand.

and of course, they completely misread the one about Shylock, he was actually a sports goods manufacturer. Hence "The Merchant of Tennis"

and of course, they completely misread the one about Shylock, he was actually a sports goods manufacturer. Hence "The Merchant of Tennis"

There was another one, rather less well-known, about how long it took for boats going through a canal to be raised from one level to another.

"The Rate of the Lock"

You two need to stop it before someone gets hurt.:D

There was another one, rather less well-known, about how long it took for boats going through a canal to be raised from one level to another.

"The Rate of the Lock"

And who can forget that wonderful story about how Josef K wishes he was never born, and a kindly insect angel called Clarence comes down to show him the error of his ways...

i refer of course to Franz Kafka's "It's a wonderful life"

And who can forget that wonderful story about how Josef K wishes he was never born, and a kindly insect angel called Clarence comes down to show him the error of his ways...

i refer of course to Franz Kafka's "It's a wonderful life"

I'd keep going, but it's getting quite late for me and I've got things to do, people to see tomorrow, so I ought to get to sleep. So I leave you with this beloved Jamaican cyberpunk bedtime story...

G00d|\|1gh7 /\/\0|\|!

I'd keep going, but it's getting quite late for me and I've got things to do, people to see tomorrow, so I ought to get to sleep. So I leave you with this beloved Jamaican cyberpunk bedtime story...

G00d|\|1gh7 /\/\0|\|!

of course, i love the old jamaican hymns

"he who would valiant be
gainst all disaster
let him valiantly
follow the rasta"

sleep well
x

Like leonstine said, you're missing the definition of aithiesm. Aithism is the BELEIF that there's no God.

(Note: Kreen has a post that dances around this matter, but we have to deal with it full on.)

Atheists, agnostics, evolutionists, and false prophets sure do have some big words against the God of the Bible, the true God. A lot of them come to NS with derogatory remarks which is fine--they know they need Jesus, that's why they keep diving into the arguments. They know hell ain't no fairy tale.

Atheists say, "There is no god," like they know what exists in every speck of the universe. The Bible says, "The FOOL hath said in his heart, 'There is no God'." In actuality, there is no such thing as a "real atheist". Here's an illustration which can be used on any atheist.

1. Ask him if he knows every single fact about every manmade system just on this earth--criminal law, civil law, heart surgery, biology, teaching, being a garbage man, computer programming, ants, engineering, woodcutting, business, every person's social security number by heart, etc. He will have to tell you no, he doesn't know every single fact.

2. Ask him what percentage he knows of all the knowledge to be known in the entire known universe like what is happening in the core of Mars--right now. What is the temperature of that star that hubble is about to approach, etc. He'll have to tell you he knows practically 0% of the knowledge to be known in the entire universe. I then say, "So in other words you know practically nothing." The answer must be yes.

Imagine all the knowledge of the Universe as a chalk board, with a tiny, infinitesmally small speck on it. That can represent how much the atheist knows. Imagine a giant X on that board, representing God who exists in the vast space OUTSIDE the atheists extremely limited knowledge.

There is no such thing as an atheist because no human being knows everything and has all knowledge as we've demonstrated. Neither can any person be everywhere at the same time. For a person to be able to confidently say, "There is no God," he'd have to know EVERYTHING that existed EVERYWHERE--and no human being fits that bill. There is no atheist. At the very BEST a person can say, "I'm agnostic" although this is not true either...


If you must post a new religion thread, refrain from retarded statements.

Like leonstine said, you're missing the definition of aithiesm. Aithism is the BELEIF that there's no God.

for me, it's the absolute cast iron certainty, flavoured with belief, backed up with evidence, that there's no god.

but i concede thats just for me.

Man. I was hoping he'd come back. :(

Oh My God. Don't Tell Me Someone Started A Nation Just To Flame And Troll Us Athiests? Why Hasn't Any Moderators Come Yet? Shut This Thread Down And Ban His Ass! Seriously Man! He Doesn't Even Have His Facts And Theories Straight! So What If An Athiest Doesn't Know Everything? What Does That Have To Do With A Belief In God?

(Note: Kreen has a post that dances around this matter, but we have to deal with it full on.)

Atheists, agnostics, evolutionists, and false prophets sure do have some big words against the God of the Bible, the true God. A lot of them come to NS with derogatory remarks which is fine--they know they need Jesus, that's why they keep diving into the arguments. They know hell ain't no fairy tale.

Atheists say, "There is no god," like they know what exists in every speck of the universe. The Bible says, "The FOOL hath said in his heart, 'There is no God'." In actuality, there is no such thing as a "real atheist". Here's an illustration which can be used on any atheist.

1. Ask him if he knows every single fact about every manmade system just on this earth--criminal law, civil law, heart surgery, biology, teaching, being a garbage man, computer programming, ants, engineering, woodcutting, business, every person's social security number by heart, etc. He will have to tell you no, he doesn't know every single fact.

2. Ask him what percentage he knows of all the knowledge to be known in the entire known universe like what is happening in the core of Mars--right now. What is the temperature of that star that hubble is about to approach, etc. He'll have to tell you he knows practically 0% of the knowledge to be known in the entire universe. I then say, "So in other words you know practically nothing." The answer must be yes.

Imagine all the knowledge of the Universe as a chalk board, with a tiny, infinitesmally small speck on it. That can represent how much the atheist knows. Imagine a giant X on that board, representing God who exists in the vast space OUTSIDE the atheists extremely limited knowledge.

There is no such thing as an atheist because no human being knows everything and has all knowledge as we've demonstrated. Neither can any person be everywhere at the same time. For a person to be able to confidently say, "There is no God," he'd have to know EVERYTHING that existed EVERYWHERE--and no human being fits that bill. There is no atheist. At the very BEST a person can say, "I'm agnostic" although this is not true either...


This is a very long thread, and therfore I will only respond to the initial post until I have a chance to read everyone else comments as it stuck me as wrong in alot of ways.

Atheists say, "There is no god," like they know what exists in every speck of the universe.
Actually most atheists I know do not claim to know every speck in the universe. The ones I know are people who cannot logicially justify belief in a supreme being without proof. Where a theist would draw on their faith to substantiate a belief in a god, an atheist would ask for support of proof. Atheists I know tend to be analytical thinkers, breaking down things on a basis of merit of evidence. As there is not material evidence for a "god", atheists believe in none. Of course unless you wish to provide evidence for the existence of god.

Your arguement is completely off base as it is based on the idea that Atheists are all-knowing and that is where their basis for non-belief derives.

Skepticism is a natural part of human nature. Much like many theists are skeptical of certain politicians and other leaders, Atheists are skeptics of "god" because there is no justification of evidence to place faith in a "god".

Requiring evidence, or proof, is a scientific mindset. There is no science in religion. If you follow the dogmatic teachings of a specific sect, you must surrender your need for proof and rely on faith. Atheists cannot surrender their will to god based on faith, they need proof, and it is as simple as that.

Personally, I am not an atheist as I do believe in certain forms of spiritualism. I am not an agnostic because for myself, personally, I know where the sources of that spiritualism derive from. However I am not a member of any "religion".

Better understanding of people different from you will lead you down a path that your christian god asks you to travel. Blind anger at people for being different from you is not right, in your gods eyes, nor in the eyes of many of your contemporaries.

Like leonstine said, you're missing the definition of aithiesm. Aithism is the BELEIF that there's no God.

Actually that is incorrect. Atheists are people who do not believe in a god or gods (or other immaterial beings), or who believe that these concepts are not meaningful.

However some individual atheists put it more firmly and believe that god or gods do not exist.

There is a major difference between the two statements. The former is the stance that most logical atheists would take, as they have no proof that a god doesn't exist, and therefore take the position of the negative in a logical argument. The latter is a positive assertion that god does not exist, and is the positive side of a logical argument and would require edividence of its own to support it.

The baseline definition of atheism is the lack (or non-) belief in any god, or spirituality.

Oh My God. Don't Tell Me Someone Started A Nation Just To Flame And Troll Us Athiests? Why Hasn't Any Moderators Come Yet? Shut This Thread Down And Ban His Ass! Seriously Man! He Doesn't Even Have His Facts And Theories Straight! So What If An Athiest Doesn't Know Everything? What Does That Have To Do With A Belief In God?


Plus his logic is horrible. He said quite plainly that athiests don't exist because they aren't omniscient of the ways of the universe. It's not like religious folks are any more allknowing :rolleyes:

Well, unless the Buudhists are right, that is. They are way more allknowing if they're right. WAY.


BUT! It's good that his thread wasn't locked. He had a major part in creating a new religion, which I will now call the "Cult of Dick And Jane."

Snoop around on the last page or the page before, if you have your settings to have 40 posts a page.

If you'd actually read the definition it says atheists lack belief in gods, not what you've said at all. The only ones twisting the definition are those that are scared by the fact that there are people who live perfectly well without their particular superstition.

Yes, implicit (weak) atheists simply lack belief in god(s). What I find a lot, however, is that there are a lot explicit (strong) atheists who will go around declaring that there are no gods (a positive assertion), but who will retreat to the "lack of belief" or implicit atheist position whenever they are asked to back up their assertion, despite the fact that they have previously been declaring their support for the explicit atheist position. I can respect implicit atheists (like my friend Grave_n_idle), and I can respct explicit atheists for their positions, but I wish more explicit atheists would actually stick to their guns rather than mooching off the position of the implicits when the going gets tough.

Ok i am not reading 19 pages of this. But here is my two yen's worth.

First of the the person who started this thread falls back on the assumption the because we can not disprove the exsistence of God therefore he exsist. Yet he completely overlooks the fact that you can not prove God exsist. But thats not the problem, As i see it there is no God that is my belief. If God were to walk up to me and say " Hey, John I exsist" I would ask for proof . Now even though i believe God does not exsist i do know I am Human and i am often wrong about things. I may very well be wrong and God may exsist. But hey its my choice to believe in him or to believe he does exsist. So to all of religious types ut there please obey your religon. Your god gave me freewill and it is my decision so leave me alone.