NationStates Jolt Archive

Source of Article - http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_service/world_full_story.asp?service_id=2010

For those who do not know, the Al-Aqsa Mosque is the Dome of Rock

Article -

Israeli occupation
forces will ban
Muslims from
entering the Al-Aqsa Mosque,
Islam's third-holiest site, on
Friday,
Jerusalem police announced.

All Muslim men under the age of 45 will be banned from entering the holy mosque for Friday noon prayers, a police official said.

He added that only women as well as men above 45 with Israeli ID cars will be allowed into the compound.

The Israeli restrictions come one week after the Palestinian resistance group Hamas won a landslide victory in the parliamentary elections.

Israel forces often close off the holy site in Jerusalem’s Old City, especially on Fridays.

Source: Jerusalem Post

--

Short article, but it does hold current news events. And that picture convinces me that it isn't Islamic Propaganda (as some will think it is).

Source of Article - http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_service/world_full_story.asp?service_id=2010

For those who do not know, the Al-Aqsa Mosque is the Dome of Rock

Article -

Israeli occupation
forces will ban
Muslims from
entering the Al-Aqsa Mosque,
Islam's third-holiest site, on
Friday,
Jerusalem police announced.

All Muslim men under the age of 45 will be banned from entering the holy mosque for Friday noon prayers, a police official said.

He added that only women as well as men above 45 with Israeli ID cars will be allowed into the compound.

The Israeli restrictions come one week after the Palestinian resistance group Hamas won a landslide victory in the parliamentary elections.

Israel forces often close off the holy site in Jerusalem’s Old City, especially on Fridays.

Source: Jerusalem Post

--

Short article, but it does hold current news events. And that picture convinces me that it isn't Islamic Propaganda.

And? The article says that it often happens.

Why only on Fridays?

Well, they close it off usually. Not impose age restrictions.

Source of Article - http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_service/world_full_story.asp?service_id=2010

For those who do not know, the Al-Aqsa Mosque is the Dome of Rock


You obviously know nothing. The Dome of the Rock is the Mosque of Omar. The Al-Aqsa Mosque is different. It is situatred right over the Wailing Wall. The reason they close it off is because worshipers who go into the mosque throw rocks down at the Jews praying at the mosque. If they can't act like civilized people they can't go there. It's as simple as that.

You obviously know nothing. The Dome of the Rock is the Mosque of Omar. The Al-Aqsa Mosque is different. It is situatred right over the Wailing Wall. The reason they close it off is because worshipers who go into the mosque throw rocks down at the Jews praying at the mosque. If they can't act like civilized people they can't go there. It's as simple as that.

Go to Google images and type in "Al-Aqsa Mosque" and see who's right and who's wrong.

And I am pretty sure that website I provided would have a picture of the Dome of Rock and not the "different" one?

Here you go -

http://images.google.com/images?q=Al-Aqsa&hl=en

Why only on Fridays?

Islamic day of worship.

Why only on Fridays?

Friday is the Holy Day for Muslims (similar to what Sunday is to Christians).

I can imagine a lot of Muslims rushing to Al-Aqsa for prayer and fill it up.

After all, in Islamic Belief, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) ascended into Heaven from Al-Aqsa.

Go to Google images and type in "Al-Aqsa Mosque" and see who's right or who's wrong.

And I am pretty sure that website I provided would have a picture of the Dome of Rock and not the "different" one?

Here you go -

http://images.google.com/images?q=Al-Aqsa&hl=en
Your google image search told you wrong. Do another search and we will see who is right. Or better yet, search actual text histories instead of mis named pictures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Aqsa_Mosque
yeah go here, that sure looks like the Dome of the Rock LOL!!!

Then type in mosque of omar into wiki and see what comes up. :)

I love it when people come in here to bash Israel when they don't know basic shit.

Why only on Fridays?
Because people up at the Dome of the Rock, especially younger men, have a habit of raining stones down on the Jews who are worshipping at the Wall down below.

That building should be demolished or moved. It's on our temple!

That building should be demolished or moved. It's on our temple!
Amen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Aqsa_Mosque
yeah go here, that sure looks like the Dome of the Rock LOL!!!

LOLOMGZORZ.

No, the picture in the article had the Dome of Rock, so I referenced to that as the Al-Aqsa Mosque (as it did in the article) along with the Google Images.

Also, Islam says respect Jews and Christians, but politically, the majority of Muslims dislike and/or hate Jews and therefore would like to harm them (and vice versa, ofcourse).

That building should be demolished or moved. It's on our temple!

Yes...anyway...

I think both sides need to get a grip. We're talking about rocks. :rolleyes:

If that's not idolatry, I don't know what is.

I think the Jews and the Muslims should give up the temple and make a new one that worships me.

Well, be happy its rocks, not AK-47's :eek:

I think the Jews and the Muslims should give up the temple and make a new one that worships me.

*worships frantically*

There seems to be some legitimate reasons to do this. It may look malicious taken out of context, but to me this is looking for a story where there isn't one.

That building should be demolished or moved. It's on our temple!
That comment however, I find deplorable.

That building should be demolished or moved. It's on our temple!

We should just open in back up for friday prayer, then when its filled up, fire bomb it.

Oops, did I say that out loud?

I think both sides need to get a grip. We're talking about rocks. :rolleyes:

If that's not idolatry, I don't know what is.
But they're magical rocks!

There seems to be some legitimate reasons to do this. It may look malicious taken out of context, but to me this is looking for a story where there isn't one.


That comment however, I find deplorable.

Its actually not, the arabs built it on top of the 2nd temple of Jerusalem. So technically, they did build it on our temple.

I do predict sooner or later, AK-47's will replace the rocks. . .no really.

:eek:

:mp5:

That building should be demolished or moved. It's on our temple!
"Hey, you got mosque on my temple"
"Well you got temple on my mosque"

But they're magical rocks!
:rolleyes:

Demolish both, and tell the lot to stop being nubs.

Its actually not, the arabs built it on top of the 2nd temple of Jerusalem. So technically, they did build it on our temple.

Yes but they've had it for long enough now to claim squatter's rights, kindof like Christians and Christmas.

I do predict sooner or later, AK-47's will replace the rocks. . .no really.

:eek:

:mp5:
Um, what do you think the consequences of that will be for the Palestinian people?

True.

And like the Crescent Moon and the Star belonging to Islam, although it was all in Arabian Culture (pre-Islamic, that is).

Um, what do you think the consequences of that will be for the Palestinian people?

It was a joke, relax!!

It was a joke, relax!!
I'm totally relaxed. I'm in New Jersey, not Jerusalem. Whatever happens I'll be OK.

True.

And like the Crescent Moon and the Star belonging to Islam, although it was all in Arabian Culture (pre-Islamic, that is).

Yup. I vote that the Muslims give the temple mount back to the jews immediately after the Christians give the 25th December back to the pagans.

*nods sagely*

Yes but they've had it for long enough now to claim squatter's rights, kindof like Christians and Christmas.

Well, thats your opinion. Anyway I dont have too much love for the arabs in the middle east. When I was recently in Israel, they wouldnt let us in the Dome of the Rock, because we werent muslim. They dont let you in there if you have a star of Daivid or a Cross anywhere on you. Yet there is not a single place in Israel that Jews dont let Christians and other non Jews go.

I wonder why that is?

Well, thats your opinion. Anyway I dont have too much love for the arabs in the middle east. When I was recently in Israel, they wouldnt let us in the Dome of the Rock, because we werent muslim. They dont let you in there if you have a star of Daivid or a Cross anywhere on you. Yet there is not a single place in Israel that Jews dont let Christians and other non Jews go.

I wonder why that is?
They're stockpiling WMD in there. Tell Bush.

I wonder why that is?
More profitable that way?

Well, thats your opinion. Anyway I dont have too much love for the arabs in the middle east. When I was recently in Israel, they wouldnt let us in the Dome of the Rock, because we werent muslim. They dont let you in there if you have a star of Daivid or a Cross anywhere on you. Yet there is not a single place in Israel that Jews dont let Christians and other non Jews go.

I wonder why that is?
Probably because their prophet Mohammed was a butcher who murdered those who were of a different religion. (See his 58 wars of aggression and murder of the Jews of Medina.) His followers seem to take after him in many ways.

Well, thats your opinion. Anyway I dont have too much love for the arabs in the middle east. When I was recently in Israel, they wouldnt let us in the Dome of the Rock, because we werent muslim. They dont let you in there if you have a star of Daivid or a Cross anywhere on you. Yet there is not a single place in Israel that Jews dont let Christians and other non Jews go.

I wonder why that is?

Don't get think that Islam orders non-Muslims from entering Holy Places.

In my opinion, it's just extremism. Since Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is believed to ascended to Heaven from the Dome of Rock, then some will think it is too Holy of a Place to allow Non-Muslims to enter.

However, doing that, is not ordered by Islam, its just the people doing it.

Well, thats your opinion. Anyway I dont have too much love for the arabs in the middle east. When I was recently in Israel, they wouldnt let us in the Dome of the Rock, because we werent muslim. They dont let you in there if you have a star of Daivid or a Cross anywhere on you. Yet there is not a single place in Israel that Jews dont let Christians and other non Jews go.

I wonder why that is?

With the exception of the huge wall which separates Palestinians from their jobs and families? The wall where Palestinians often have to wait up to 24 hours before they're let through?

Probably because their prophet Mohammed was a butcher who murdered those who were of a different religion. (See his 58 wars of aggression and murder of the Jews of Medina.) His followers seem to take after him in many ways.
Gee, no historical context? :rolleyes:

Probably because their prophet Mohammed was a butcher who murdered those who were of a different religion. (See his 58 wars of aggression and murder of the Jews of Medina.) His followers seem to take after him in many ways.

No. Plainly no.

If the Islamic Empire did not ravagely kill Christians and Jews (instead, they taxed them), I highly, highly doubt Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) commenced such a thing. And I'm saying this out of historical facts.

Please provide proof before purposely intimidating others.

Probably because their prophet Mohammed was a butcher who murdered those who were of a different religion. (See his 58 wars of aggression and murder of the Jews of Medina.) His followers seem to take after him in many ways.

If I remember correctly the wars of conquest only began after Muhammed's death.

They're stockpiling WMD in there. Tell Bush.

LOL!

Hehehe, sorry, I just have to make a post on that. It is very humerous, and the result of infact telling Bush that will be quite unsurprising.

Yup. I vote that the Muslims give the temple mount back to the jews immediately after the Christians give the 25th December back to the pagans.

*nods sagely*

The Jews shouldn't be dependant on what the Christians do. Besides, the pagans have December 21, the true solstace.

Don't get think that Islam orders non-Muslims from entering Holy Places.

However, doing that, is not ordered by Islam, its just the people doing it.

Although most mosques prohibit non-Muslims from entering, many mosques in Muslim-minority countries allow outsiders in as a show of openness. The Masjid al-Haram in Makkah has the strictest prohibition against non-Muslims entering since the entire city of Makkah is off-limits to non-Muslims. The ban on non-Muslims being allowed into the Masjid al-Haram is mentioned in the Qur'an:

O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. (9:28, Yusuf Ali)
Many mosques have extended that prohibition to other mosques in Saudi Arabia and the Arab world, particularly to the Masjid al-Nabawi in Medina


That would be Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque

Oh by the way....its truley a great and noble religion. :rolleyes: Unclean pagans...pfft who the hell do they think they are.

In my opinion, it's just extremism. Since Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is believed to ascended to Heaven from the Dome of Rock, then some will think it is too Holy of a Place to allow Non-Muslims to enter.

Ok. This is also the spot where (In Judaism and Christianity) Abraham was asked my God to sacrifice his son. And it is also the spot (in Judaism and Christianity) where Jacob (I think?) struggled with an Angel and later witnessed angels ascending to heaven on a ladder. And even later, it is the spot (in Judaism and Christianity) where the 2nd holy temple was built and destroyed.

So I think it contains a little more significance to Jews and Christians than it does to these guys, or maybe just enough significance to allow Jews and Christians in the fucking front door.

They're stockpiling WMD in there. Tell Bush.

*Meanwhile in the whitehouse...*

President Bush: "We have recieved a tip off that the Rabs are stockpiling WMD in the dome of the rock. We are in the process of trying to figure out whether or not these allegations are corr.....eh screw it lets just fire bomb Mecca."

With the exception of the huge wall which separates Palestinians from their jobs and families? The wall where Palestinians often have to wait up to 24 hours before they're let through?

24 hours?? Thats all it takes those terrorist bastards to get through? It should take at the very least, a life time...but hell, wouldnt it be better if we just didnt let them in at all....

Ahh...peace at last.

Probably because their prophet Mohammed was a butcher who murdered those who were of a different religion. (See his 58 wars of aggression and murder of the Jews of Medina.) His followers seem to take after him in many ways.

Agreed. Its not until people go to Israel and the middle east, can they truley see what we are talking about.

Well, 'Pagans' is different from Christians and Jews.

If the Qu'ran did want to make reference to Christians and Jews, it does clearly specify them.

Also, respect the religion, because you'll just end up looking narrow-minded (just like that woman who said "you have a screwed up family" in the "unwanted advice" thread. --Reference isn't accurate by the way).

Although it might hold more significance in your belief, in modern beliefs, its more important to Muslims as it is in the top three Holy Sites.

Well, 'Pagans' is different from Christians and Jews.

If the Qu'ran did want to make reference to Christians and Jews, it does clearly specify them.

Also, respect the religion, because you'll just end up looking narrow-minded (just like that woman who said "you have a screwed up family" in the "unwanted advice" thread. --Reference isn't accurate by the way).

Although it might hold more significance in your belief, in modern beliefs, its more important to Muslims as it is in the top three Holy Sites.

No. Pagans is not different than Christian and Jews at all. Why the hell would it be talking about the Pagans of Northern Germany or something like that. It would be talking about other religions in that area, that it deemed unclean.

Who the hell are they to call us unclean. They are the ones that dont shower and cry out in fear at the sight of deodorant.

Ok, The Atlantian Islands, I don't see your point of degrating Islam.

What is your reason?

Terrorists? Ok, that is THEIR belief, Islam does not reference to fighting Non-Muslims for no reason -- ONLY if they HARM you because your a MUSLIM.

Take this verse from the Qu'ran for an example -

And make not Allah.s (name) an excuse in your oaths against doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons; for Allah is One Who heareth and knoweth all things. [Holy Qu'ran - 2:224]

The "oppression" in the Middle East? Many of them don't even follow the kind beliefs of Islam. For example, another verse from the Qu'ran -

"… when it is said to them; 'Make not mischief on the Earth', they say; 'We are only peace makers'. Indeed they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive it not.” (Al-Baqarah 2:11-12)

Mischief is considered Oppression, look at this site - http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545860

Is it all the fighting in the Middle East. It's all in the NAME of Islam, but that doesn't mean Islam permits it, as it says, again, here -

And make not Allah.s (name) an excuse in your oaths against doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons; for Allah is One Who heareth and knoweth all things. [Holy Qu'ran - 2:224]

Israel as a concept pisses me off. Yes, the Holocaust was one of the most horrific events in human history - does that mean that you get to invade and annex a sovereign nation, replace the government, either evict or lock into glorified camps the entire population, and turn the Middle East into even more of an unstable continuous war zone than it already was? NO! The idiots among the Allies who decided it was a good idea to lend their military and political backing to the founding of Israel on the illegally invaded and annexed corpse of Palestine were utter morons who are quite possibly indirectly responsible for the deaths of the 9/11 victims. Two wrongs do not make a right, and massive theft of territory and sovereignty is not right!

No. Pagans is not different than Christian and Jews at all. Why the hell would it be talking about the Pagans of Northern Germany or something like that. It would be talking about other religions in that area, that it deemed unclean.

Who the hell are they to call us unclean. They are the ones that dont shower and cry out in fear at the sight of deodorant.


DUDE - Read the Qu'ran, your idiotic, blinded, narrow-minded Media beliefs make you say this. It is what your saying right now that is wrong because of what the Media says and stereo-typical-ness. If YOU just did your research and read the facts, maybe THEN would this arguement have of any value.

Israel as a concept pisses me off. Yes, the Holocaust was one of the most horrific events in human history - does that mean that you get to invade and annex a sovereign nation, replace the government, either evict or lock into glorified camps the entire population, and turn the Middle East into even more of an unstable continuous war zone than it already was? NO! The idiots among the Allies who decided it was a good idea to lend their military and political backing to the founding of Israel on the illegally invaded and annexed corpse of Palestine were utter morons who are quite possibly indirectly responsible for the deaths of the 9/11 victims. Two wrongs do not make a right, and massive theft of territory and sovereignty is not right!

This holds of truth. Not because I'm a Muslim I am saying this.

But remember, Israel is the Holy Land originally for Jews, so the Allies decided, in religious terms, to give the Jewish People Israel for Land. However, it is land theft since the Holy Land for Jews was a historic event centuries before Israel was decided to be born.

Israel as a concept pisses me off. Yes, the Holocaust was one of the most horrific events in human history - does that mean that you get to invade and annex a sovereign nation, replace the government, either evict or lock into glorified camps the entire population, and turn the Middle East into even more of an unstable continuous war zone than it already was? NO! The idiots among the Allies who decided it was a good idea to lend their military and political backing to the founding of Israel on the illegally invaded and annexed corpse of Palestine were utter morons who are quite possibly indirectly responsible for the deaths of the 9/11 victims. Two wrongs do not make a right, and massive theft of territory and sovereignty is not right!
Palestine was never a sovreign country.

Most of the territory that Israel annexed was in response to being attacked by it's neighbors. It needed land for defensive depth so it couldn't be overrun if they attacked again. It's actually given back most of the land it took after those wars. For example, they once held the whole Sinai peninsula.

Osama isn't working for the good of the Palestinian people. He's working towards a world wide Islamic (his version only, of course) caliphate.

Israel as a concept pisses me off. Yes, the Holocaust was one of the most horrific events in human history - does that mean that you get to invade and annex a sovereign nation, replace the government, either evict or lock into glorified camps the entire population, and turn the Middle East into even more of an unstable continuous war zone than it already was? NO! The idiots among the Allies who decided it was a good idea to lend their military and political backing to the founding of Israel on the illegally invaded and annexed corpse of Palestine were utter morons who are quite possibly indirectly responsible for the deaths of the 9/11 victims. Two wrongs do not make a right, and massive theft of territory and sovereignty is not right!

Great Britian owned the land. There was never a palestinian nation.

If I remember correctly the wars of conquest only began after Muhammed's death.

See the Battle of Badr and the campaign afterwards.

Israel as a concept pisses me off. Yes, the Holocaust was one of the most horrific events in human history - does that mean that you get to invade and annex a sovereign nation, replace the government, either evict or lock into glorified camps the entire population, and turn the Middle East into even more of an unstable continuous war zone than it already was? NO! The idiots among the Allies who decided it was a good idea to lend their military and political backing to the founding of Israel on the illegally invaded and annexed corpse of Palestine were utter morons who are quite possibly indirectly responsible for the deaths of the 9/11 victims. Two wrongs do not make a right, and massive theft of territory and sovereignty is not right!

1. Jewish communities in what we now call Israel had existed for well over 50 years before the second world war or the Holocaust

2. The Jews had immigrated to the geographical area Palistine and bought the land off Egyptian and Syrian absentee landlords. The majority of that which was sold to them was non arable

3. The Jews were quite happy to live in peace with the Arab nations, its just that the Arab nations refusing to accept that Israel should exist is causing the majority of the problems

Read the articles here

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html

We should just open in back up for friday prayer, then when its filled up, fire bomb it.

Oops, did I say that out loud?

Some might trot this out every time you accuse muslims of atrocities and/or acting "savagely"....


I do predict sooner or later, AK-47's will replace the rocks. . .no really.

Incorrect, as it was a Galil wielded by a Dr Baruch Goldstein, and no, he wasnt firing at those worshipping at the wall.


Well, thats your opinion. Anyway I dont have too much love for the arabs in the middle east. When I was recently in Israel, they wouldnt let us in the Dome of the Rock, because we werent muslim. They dont let you in there if you have a star of Daivid or a Cross anywhere on you. Yet there is not a single place in Israel that Jews dont let Christians and other non Jews go.
I wonder why that is??

Because a christian tried to burn it down in 1960, and because losing your country doesnt turn you into a tolerant person in many ways, I'd imagine. Also Dr Goldstein didnt make many friends when he visited. Mr Sharons visit was about as popular.......and some of those in charge of it probably are a bit bigoted anyway...


Probably because their prophet Mohammed was a butcher who murdered those who were of a different religion. (See his 58 wars of aggression and murder of the Jews of Medina.) His followers seem to take after him in many ways.

Is there a line in the Torah similar to the new testaments "Let he who is without sin....."?


Unclean pagans...pfft who the hell do they think they are..

Orthodox muslims I'd imagine. You wouldn't be implying that there arent certain standards of ritual purity to be observed within Orthodox Judaism, by any chance? Rituals to be observed after certain events...that kind of thing?

Palestine was never a sovreign country.

Most of the territory that Israel annexed was in response to being attacked by it's neighbors. It needed land for defensive depth so it couldn't be overrun if they attacked again. It's actually given back most of the land it took after those wars. For example, they once held the whole Sinai peninsula.

Osama isn't working for the good of the Palestinian people. He's working towards a world wide Islamic (his version only, of course) caliphate.

I might point out that putting thousands of your civillians in nice housing estates in the defensive area sort of undermines that. Its what I call the "Tying granny to the car bumper" argument. You are 100% correct on Osama though.


1. Jewish communities in what we now call Israel had existed for well over 50 years before the second world war or the Holocaust

2. The Jews had immigrated to the geographical area Palistine and bought the land off Egyptian and Syrian absentee landlords. The majority of that which was sold to them was non arable?

Jewish communities in Israel date to well before that and the beginning of the zionist project, and in fact there were Jewish families there since before modern records. The Ottoman Turks recorded over 20,000 in their census conducted in the mid 1800s.

Whereas it is correct to say that Jewish immigrants did indeed buy land, it never amounted to more than 6% of the total land area. The 1946 Survey of the British Mandate shows this, and that the Jewish community were involved in agriculture (particularily Citrus fruit).

Thank you Nodinia. It is people like you, who are few nowadays, that know the actual knowledge and don't go cluttering people's minds and talk unintelligently when debating/discussing while not knowing the actual facts.

I once again, thank you.

Thank you Nodinia. It is people like you, who are few nowadays, that know the actual knowledge and don't go cluttering people's minds and talk unintelligently when debating/discussing while not knowing the actual facts.

I once again, thank you.

You guys are a bunch of pro arab lefties, thats really all it is. But no matter, everyones allowed to have their [wrong] point of views. :p

Whereas it is correct to say that Jewish immigrants did indeed buy land, it never amounted to more than 6% of the total land area. The 1946 Survey of the British Mandate shows this, and that the Jewish community were involved in agriculture (particularily Citrus fruit).

The majority of the rest of the land gaind in defensive conflicts such as the 1948 war, the 1967 war (which was defensive and I can prove it) and the Yom Kippur war (proberbly misspelt but I am not Jewish)

Palestine was never a sovreign country.

It had a government and a people who had lived there for centuries. Regardless of whether the imperialist British had annexed it themselves a few decades before, it was still the effective territory, governing area, and homeland of the Palestinian people and government, and it was so well before the British took over. That's like saying it would have been perfectly OK to give India to the Chinese, because the British had taken it over. I suppose I'll have to amend my statement: Three wrongs don't make a right.

Most of the territory that Israel annexed was in response to being attacked by it's neighbors.

...which occurred after its annexation of the core territory.

Osama isn't working for the good of the Palestinian people.

I never said he was. My point was that taking the Muslim land, giving it to the members of a competitor religion, stealing the heart of 3 religions in the process, and pissing off and then displacing millions of Muslims into the half a dozen surrounding Islamic nations was the primary genesis of the modern day's wave of terrorism. We turned the entire Muslim-Arab culture against all things Western and JudaeoChristian.

It had a government and a people who had lived there for centuries. Regardless of whether the imperialist British had annexed it themselves a few decades before, it was still the effective territory, governing area, and homeland of the Palestinian people and government, and it was so well before the British took over. That's like saying it would have been perfectly OK to give India to the Chinese, because the British had taken it over. I suppose I'll have to amend my statement: Three wrongs don't make a right.



...which occurred after its annexation of the core territory.



I never said he was. My point was that taking the Muslim land, giving it to the members of a competitor religion, stealing the heart of 3 religions in the process, and pissing off and then displacing millions of Muslims into the half a dozen surrounding Islamic nations was the primary genesis of the modern day's wave of terrorism. We turned the entire Muslim-Arab culture against all things Western and JudaeoChristian.
Please show me evidence that Palestine ever had an independent government. As far as I know it was just a region first in the ottoman empire, then administered by the British, then part of Trans-Jordan, then partitioned by the UN to include Israel.

Nope. Early on Jews bought land there. Then the UN gave them a chunk of land there. Then their Arab neighbors attacked and Israel kicked their asses. In order to prevent themselves from being overrun if their nice, peacefull neighbors attacked again they didn't give back all of the land that they managed to occupy.

The modern day wave of terrorism has roots going back to the thirties at the latest.

The modern day wave of terrorism has roots going back to the thirties at the latest.

Nothing in history goes back to a certain point and vanishes. Its all a series of cause and effects. The modern wave of terrorism is set upon events that set that type of anger in motion. One of them being (although not limited to) the many events that included Israel. [/2cents]

One day, when the people of the world open their eyes to reality, the Jews will once again crawl back under the rock from which they came and enslave us no more.

Nothing in history goes back to a certain point and vanishes. Its all a series of cause and effects. The modern wave of terrorism is set upon events that set that type of anger in motion. One of them being (although not limited to) the many events that included Israel. [/2cents]
I never said that it goes back to a certain point and vanishes. Hell, you can trace OBL's terrorist version of Islam to Ibn Taymiyya. My appologies if I misspelled that scumbag scholar's name. You can trace Taymiyya's philosophy even farther back than that. I pointed to the thirties because that's around the time that the Muslim Brotherhood was getting it's ass in gear to preach a violent version of Islam in Egypt. Ayman Al Zawahiri's involvement in terrorism bears direct links to the Muslim Brotherhood movement. And let's not forget that while OBL is the figurehead, Al Zawahiri is the brains behind al Qaeda.

One day, when the people of the world open their eyes to reality, the Jews will once again crawl back under the rock from which they came and enslave us no more.
Um, when did the Jews enslave us?

@Drunk Comies (lol)

Cool, I was just clarifying. I didnt want anyone to think that "this stuff came outa no where couple decades back!" :rolleyes: You know how people are... esp those in my country *coughUSAcough* they need things spelled out for them, lest they go out and bomb the crap outa someone for their misunderstanding.

Well, 'Pagans' is different from Christians and Jews.

If the Qu'ran did want to make reference to Christians and Jews, it does clearly specify them.

Also, respect the religion, because you'll just end up looking narrow-minded (just like that woman who said "you have a screwed up family" in the "unwanted advice" thread. --Reference isn't accurate by the way).

Although it might hold more significance in your belief, in modern beliefs, its more important to Muslims as it is in the top three Holy Sites.

I just have to mention this...

How is it more important to Muslims if it is their 3rd most holy site if it's the MOST HOLY SITE OF ALL in Judaism. How does that make it more important to Muslims?

I just have to mention this...

How is it more important to Muslims if it is their 3rd most holy site if it's the MOST HOLY SITE OF ALL in Judaism. How does that make it more important to Muslims?
Well no religion takes into account what other religions regard as holy. In Spain there are churches built on the site of mosques. In Syria there are mosques built on the sites of churches. In the Black Hills of South Dakota there are the faces of four presidents carved onto a mountain that was sacred to the Lakota. No one group of people cares about the holy sites of another.

I care and agree not to defile other's holy sites, but darnit, we built a Temple there over 1500 years before Mohammad was born!

The majority of the rest of the land gaind in defensive conflicts such as the 1948 war, the 1967 war (which was defensive and I can prove it) and the Yom Kippur war (proberbly misspelt but I am not Jewish)

What about "the majority"...???????????? I don't get what you're saying I'm afraid.


Please show me evidence that Palestine ever had an independent government.

But thats irrelevant. African nations are mostly the result of a European drawing a line on the map and the majority contain numbers of different peoples, many of who have had little or nothing to do with their now "countrymen" historically, or have been enemies for centuries.

I've already covered your statement about the land being bought, and its absolute nonsense for which you have no backing whatsoever. The UN did indeed grant a section of land for each community, but what happened was that during and in the wake of the neighbouring Nations attack, the majority of the Palestinian Arab population were removed from their homes, directly or indirectly, and not allowed return.


In order to prevent themselves from being overrun if their nice, peacefull neighbors attacked again they didn't give back all of the land that they managed to occupy..

So they moved loads of tank-repelling civillians in, cunningly disguised as ordinary families in detached and semi-detached housing. Strange that the majority moved in after Oslo in 1992 as well. Because by then Egypt and Jordan had signed peace treaties with Israel and relations had greatly improved.....

When there was a zone in southern Lebanon occupied to prevent attacks from the PLO etc there werent any civillians moved in there, by the way.


One day, when the people of the world open their eyes to reality, the Jews will once again crawl back under the rock from which they came and enslave us no more...

Hmmmm.....What a load of juvenile shite. Please fuck off back to dressing up in a crappy imitation uniform and throwing high kicks in your rubber high-heel jack boots.

I care and agree not to defile other's holy sites, but darnit, we built a Temple there over 1500 years before Mohammad was born!

While this is true, its actually the Romans fault for knocking it down.

No...it was the Babylonians. I was speaking on the Temple of Solomon. But yes, then we built a second temple, which Titus destroyed *DEATH TO TITUS*. That doesn't give the Muslims any right to construct a mosque where we had a Temple! Our Most Holy Site. In fact the ONLY holy site in all of Judaism, and the Muslims think they have more right to it than we do?

45 years?? Oh ya, thats the middle east...

No...it was the Babylonians. I was speaking on the Temple of Solomon. But yes, then we built a second temple, which Titus destroyed *DEATH TO TITUS*. That doesn't give the Muslims any right to construct a mosque where we had a Temple! Our Most Holy Site. In fact the ONLY holy site in all of Judaism, and the Muslims think they have more right to it than we do?

I doubt they gave a second thought for the site,seeing as there was no temple there. Like the other gentleman pointed out, religons usually don't respect each others holy places (or at least didnt do so that frequently in the past - there were exceptions).

Listen, I have respect for holy places. I wouldn't violate what other people consider holy sites, knowingly. However, I feel free to criticize when others violate MY holy site.

Well no religion takes into account what other religions regard as holy. In Spain there are churches built on the site of mosques. In Syria there are mosques built on the sites of churches. In the Black Hills of South Dakota there are the faces of four presidents carved onto a mountain that was sacred to the Lakota. No one group of people cares about the holy sites of another.

Well said.

Israel as a concept pisses me off. Yes, the Holocaust was one of the most horrific events in human history - does that mean that you get to invade and annex a sovereign nation, replace the government, either evict or lock into glorified camps the entire population, and turn the Middle East into even more of an unstable continuous war zone than it already was? NO! The idiots among the Allies who decided it was a good idea to lend their military and political backing to the founding of Israel on the illegally invaded and annexed corpse of Palestine were utter morons who are quite possibly indirectly responsible for the deaths of the 9/11 victims. Two wrongs do not make a right, and massive theft of territory and sovereignty is not right!


You are a retard. When exactly did the Jews 'invade'? How many times did the Jews forcibly evict Arabs? Not nearly as often as the Arabs did when they had a chance. How many Arabs abandoned their homes to pretty much get out of the way of the Syrian/Egyptian/etc. armies, because they didn't want to get slaughtered to the last man, woman, and child like they intended to do to the Jews? How many Jews were killed by their Muslim neighbors, before, during, and after the war, just because of their faith?

Research the formation of Israel. Sure, it has had many negative long term effects. That does not mean the whole thing was BS.

*adds to list of places to never visit*
*Scribbles down 'Temple Mount'*
*Scribbles out 'Temple Mount'*
*Scribbles down 'Any major holy place in the Middle East'*
*Scribbles down 'Holy places in Central Asia, much safer, just as pretty, and much less dangerous'*
*Relects on how the world might be today if Titus Caesar had completely distroyed Jerusalem, rather than leaving a couple of towers and walls standing*
Wouldn't be no wailing wall for a start. Jerusalem may have even been completely abandoned, like Babylon or Ctesiphon.

*wonders how and if people will respond to his post, and kinda hopes they don't*

*Infinite Dunes is stabbed with a green lightsaber* :)

Blasphemer! :P

Listen, I have respect for holy places. I wouldn't violate what other people consider holy sites, knowingly. However, I feel free to criticize when others violate MY holy site.

Simple reason why they are violating it. The people who go there throw rocks at the Jews after the service. Untill you can behave responably, you will not get privaliages

I'm not talking about just al-Aqsa now, I'm referring to the Dome of the Rock AND al-Aqsa, both of which are on land which was once part of both Temples.

And I do not know what you mean by "until you can behave responsibly"

If you refer to me personally, I ignore the statement.

If you refer to Israel and/or the Jewish people, *place very angry comments here*

Astraeus']You are a retard. When exactly did the Jews 'invade'? How many times did the Jews forcibly evict Arabs? Not nearly as often as the Arabs did when they had a chance. How many Arabs abandoned their homes to pretty much get out of the way of the Syrian/Egyptian/etc. armies, because they didn't want to get slaughtered to the last man, woman, and child like they intended to do to the Jews? How many Jews were killed by their Muslim neighbors, before, during, and after the war, just because of their faith?

Research the formation of Israel. Sure, it has had many negative long term effects. That does not mean the whole thing was BS.

(1)1948 and 1967.

(2)Since 1967 its being going on regularily in the occupied territories.

(3) The fact that neighbouring Arab states werent the nicest bunch doesnt justify ethnic cleansing.

(4)There is no evidence to support the idea of a second attempted Holocaust

(5) Both sides committed atrocities

Simple reason why they are violating it. The people who go there throw rocks at the Jews after the service. Untill you can behave responably, you will not get privaliages

When was the last incident of stone throwing? Could you show me a link to it in one of the Israeli newspapers such as Ha'retz?

*Infinite Dunes is stabbed with a green lightsaber* :)

Blasphemer! :P:eek:
Hang on a second... How dare you acuse me of blasphemy! I did not once speak of any god or any other sacred entity irreverently or in an impious manner.

*is clutching at straws here and thinks he's probably misinterpreted entity* :(

(1)1948 and 1967.

(2)Since 1967 its being going on regularily in the occupied territories.

(3) The fact that neighbouring Arab states werent the nicest bunch doesnt justify ethnic cleansing.

(4)There is no evidence to support the idea of a second attempted Holocaust

(5) Both sides committed atrocities

(1) That was not an invasion, that was immigration of Jews to areas where there were already Jews.

(2) The Israeli government has never evicted Arabs or Palestinians from their homes en masse. It was usually their own governments, telling them to leave, go into refugee camps for a while, and then they'd push Israel into the sea. Their leaders never succeeded in pushing Israel into the sea.

(3) There is not a SINGLE, nay, not a SINGLE credible report of Israeli ethnic cleansing. Not ONCE.

(4) First, even though your answer does not respond to the question, I would like to note there were many Nazi officers in the armies that invaded Israel in 1948. Secondly, it is admittingly they rarely if ever killed Jews for their faith, because they never made significant advances into Israel.

(5) Please provide proof that atrocities were committed by Israel. I have never heard such a thing, and have never read of such a thing.

(1)1948 and 1967.

Check your history. 1948 was the Arabs attacking the Jews in the Isralie war of independence. 1967, Egypt closed of the straits of Tiran to Israel. That is an act of war


(2)Since 1967 its being going on regularily in the occupied territories.

The only reason the ocupation continies is that the Jews know if they ended it, it would just add one more Arab state that hated them to the list. They will end the ocupation when the Palistiaians stop fighting. Why would you create a country that wanted to destroy you?


(3) The fact that neighbouring Arab states werent the nicest bunch doesnt justify ethnic cleansing.

There was no ethnic cleansing. The Jews did not massacre the Arab population of Palistine when the state was created. They fought the Arab states that attacked them, but that was it. And to be fair, if one nation beats six, they should know when to give up.


(4)There is no evidence to support the idea of a second attempted Holocaust


Asside from the Grand Mufti shouting things like "Murder all Jews" and simmilar rhetoric used by the generals to the troops massing on the borders before the 1967 war, and the Yom Kippur war. I mean really. Attacking a country on its holiest day.


(5) Both sides committed atrocities

Both sides have done bad things, indeed.

:eek:
Hang on a second... How dare you acuse me of blasphemy! I did not once speak of any god or any other sacred entity irreverently or in an impious manner.

*is clutching at straws here and thinks he's probably misinterpreted entity* :(

You speak of Yerushalayim in an impious manner. For Yerushalayim. to cease to exist is a blasphemy of both Judaism and Christianity, considering that Yerushalayim is critical to both Tanakh and New Testament prophesies.

When was the last incident of stone throwing? Could you show me a link to it in one of the Israeli newspapers such as Ha'retz?

The last major reporting of it was in April of 2004. They are doing it now because they fear mass viloence after the cartoon thing.

You speak of Yerushalayim in an impious manner. For Yerushalayim. to cease to exist is a blasphemy of both Judaism and Christianity, considering that Yerushalayim is critical to both Tanakh and New Testament prophesies.Wow, do you ever have a big ego. If you're going to use English transcriptions of the (I'm presuming) Hebrew name for Jerusalem, then why not use them consistantly throughout. It just looks so weird to read Judaism after having just read Yerushalayim.

Oh ye of little faith... may I hide out with you? Only these people with lots of faith are scaring me. :(

Reason 1 to like Israel: It acts as a pious Jew magnet and drains other nations of pious Jews, leaving the rest of the Jewish population untouched and intact.

Reason 1 not to post stuff like that: It could possibly get me into trouble. :D

Well, the closest thing in Ivrit ("Hebrew") to say "Judaism" is...Yehudim, which really means Jews.

The majority of the world looks at and judges Islam/Muslims on what the minority of Muslims do.

-Same goes for Communists and how people think they like to oppress
-Same goes for Americans, and how people think they are all Nationalistic and are blind to the truth
-Same goes for North Koreans, as how people think they are all supporters of dictatorship
-Same goes for Mexican people, as many think they are 'filthy'

This is all an example of stereotypical media-play in which the whole world is captivated by, and the list above is what the majority believes.

(1) That was not an invasion, that was immigration of Jews to areas where there were already Jews..

I didnt say it was an invasion, It was a date used to throw Arabs out of what was to become Israel.


(2) The Israeli government has never evicted Arabs or Palestinians from their homes en masse. It was usually their own governments, telling them to leave, go into refugee camps for a while, and then they'd push Israel into the sea. Their leaders never succeeded in pushing Israel into the sea...

A myth, understandable, but a myth nonetheless. I give you three quotes from David Ben-Gurion.

"It is impossible to imagine general evacuation without compulsion, and brutal compulsion, There are of course sections of the non-Jewish population of the Land of Israel which will not resist transfer under adequate conditions to certain neighboring countries, such as the Druze, a number of Bedouin tribes in the Jordan Valley and the south, the Circassians and perhaps even the Metwalis [the Sh'ite of the Galilee]. But it would be very difficult to bring about resettlement of other sections of the [Palestinian] Arab populations such as the fellahin and the urban populations in neighboring Arab countries by transferring them voluntarily, whatever economic inducements are offered to them." from "Eretz Yisrael"

February 7th 1948 he said -
"The war will GIVE us the land. The concept of 'ours' and 'not ours' are ONLY CONCEPTS for peacetime, and during war they lose all their meaning."

June 16th 1948 -
"I do not accept the version [i.e. policy] that [we] should encourage their return. . . I believe we should prevent their return . . . We must settle Jaffa, Jaffa will become a Jewish city. . . . The return of [Palestinian] Arabs to Jaffa [would be] not just foolish." If the [Palestinian] Arabs were allowed to return, to Jaffa and elsewhere, " and the war is renewed, our chances of ending the war as we wish to end it will be reduced. . . . Meanwhile, we must prevent at all costs their return," he said, and, leaving no doubt in the ministers' minds about his views on the ultimate fate of the [Palestinian] refugees, he added: "I will be for them not returning after the war."


(3) There is not a SINGLE, nay, not a SINGLE credible report of Israeli ethnic cleansing. Not ONCE..

See above. 6% of the land was all that was under Jewish ownership in 1946 Those Arabs arent there now.....so.....


(5) Please provide proof that atrocities were committed by Israel. I have never heard such a thing, and have never read of such a thing.

Deir Yassien, Nasir Al Dien, Tantura, Yehida.....theres dozens, performed by the Irgun and Haggannah.....you can check the various names yourself. Its by these that the Palestinians were forced to flee - by fear or by threat.

The last major reporting of it was in April of 2004. They are doing it now because they fear mass viloence after the cartoon thing.

Wait..they really still throw stones?

Wait..they really still throw stones?

So you just made it up then?

So you just made it up then?

Made what up...I never said they throw stones...search the whole thread.

Although I sure as hell wouldnt doubt it if they do.

Made what up...I never said they throw stones...search the whole thread.

Although I sure as hell wouldnt doubt it if they do.

Sorry, confused you with another.

I do predict sooner or later, AK-47's will replace the rocks. . .no really.

:eek:

:mp5:

Ow. That would hurt, those guns can be heavy.

Ow. That would hurt, those guns can be heavy.

And they're hardly very aerodynamic, I doubt they could get the distance or the accuracy of a well aimed rock.

Yup. I vote that the Muslims give the temple mount back to the jews immediately after the Christians give the 25th December back to the pagans.

*nods sagely*
If the Easter Bunny gives easter back I will gladdly accept the loss of Christmas.

Israel as a concept pisses me off. Yes, the Holocaust was one of the most horrific events in human history - does that mean that you get to invade and annex a sovereign nation, replace the government, either evict or lock into glorified camps the entire population, and turn the Middle East into even more of an unstable continuous war zone than it already was? NO! The idiots among the Allies who decided it was a good idea to lend their military and political backing to the founding of Israel on the illegally invaded and annexed corpse of Palestine were utter morons who are quite possibly indirectly responsible for the deaths of the 9/11 victims. Two wrongs do not make a right, and massive theft of territory and sovereignty is not right!
Agreed. Sure, Jews had were targeted durring the holocaust, but giving the land to them is nothing more than racism.

If the Zionist want the land they should have gone there and tried to take it themselves.

That building should be demolished or moved. It's on our temple!

Or both sides can hurry up and learn to get along or finish each other off so I can open a McDonalds on the site.