NationStates Jolt Archive

If you HAD to choose, between becoming a State of America or becoming a State of Europe, which would it be? (primarily aimed at British.)
ARGUEMENTS FOR EUROPE.
G. W. Bush
Geographical Reasons.
We're already heading that way
ALMOST same posistion on Political scale between countries in EU
We'd be an UBERuberuber Hyper-Power.
Nation Health Service

ARGUEMENTS FOR AMERICA.
Same Language
Same(ish) Culture
We'd Give the Democrats the Edge ;p
There really quite nice really. (Above the Bible Belt.)
Hawaii. (Cheap holidays make British go "VOTE AMERICA!")

SOOOoooo debate my points and urs! And awnser my poll pweese

http://www.bized.ac.uk/images/eu_flag.jpg

What would I like more, the plague, or cholera? Hmm...

What would I like more, the plague, or cholera? Hmm...

LOL Nice :D

Why not both? They both have things to offer, and in a global economy it is becoming increasingly hard for individual nations to go it alone economically, politically, or militarily. The future lies in becoming part of the trend towards economic internationalism, and by working with both powers you are taking the best course of action.

If you HAD to choose, between becoming a State of America or becoming a State of Europe, which would it be? (primarily aimed at British.)
ARGUEMENTS FOR EUROPE.
G. W. Bush
Geographical Reasons.
We're already heading that way
ALMOST same posistion on Political scale between countries in EU
We'd be an UBERuberuber Hyper-Power.
Nation Health Service

ARGUEMENTS FOR AMERICA.
Same Language
Same(ish) Culture
We'd Give the Democrats the Edge ;p
There really quite nice really. (Above the Bible Belt.)
Hawaii. (Cheap holidays make British go "VOTE AMERICA!")

SOOOoooo debate my points and urs! And awnser my poll pweese

I dont get what you mean in arguments for Europe when you say George Bush?

Anyway, England should come along over to us, not nessisarily become a state but get closer to America rather than joining the EU, we would always welcome our great over sea allies!

Why not both? They both have things to offer, and in a global economy it is becoming increasingly hard for individual nations to go it alone economically, politically, or militarily. The future lies in becoming part of the trend towards economic internationalism, and by working with both powers you are taking the best course of action.

So you want a United States of Eurmerica.
I dont think so, it sound like something you find in the throat. ;p
It would never work.
Not that either of my options would either sooo Carry on :p

I dont get what you mean in arguments for Europe when you say George Bush?

Anyway, England should come along over to us, not nessisarily become a state but get closer to America rather than joining the EU, we would always welcome our great over sea allies!

Thats either very funny of very sad. The G.W.Bush part i mean.

I dont get what you mean in arguments for Europe when you say George Bush?

Anyway, England should come along over to us, not nessisarily become a state but get closer to America rather than joining the EU, we would always welcome our great over sea allies!

Living in Ireland right now, that would make me feel extremely uncomfortable indeed...

The UK has far more shared values with the EU than with the US. Culturally, politically and economically, we are actually closer to the EU.

So you want a United States of Eurmerica.
I dont think so, it sound like something you find in the throat. ;p
It would never work.
Not that either of my options would either sooo Carry on :p

Or we could call it...Oceania!

I think it will work eventually. The economies of the US and EU are too interdependent, and corporations too multinational for their governments to try and compete with each other anymore; the gradual abolition of protectionism could lead to the creation of the largest pure-free trade zone in the world, and that would benefit all of the nations involved.

The UK has far more shared values with the EU than with the US. Culturally, politically and economically, we are actually closer to the EU.

"Language is more of a border than any river."

i love europe and it kicks the arse out of america anyday

"Language is more of a border than any river."

Because English is such an uncommonly spoken language.

"Language is more of a border than any river." Eh?
How is it a border, when Europeans speak better English than the British?

How is it a border, when Europeans speak better English than the British?

What you mean by that?!?! ;p

Because English is such an uncommonly spoken language.

not for the wealthy.

Living in Ireland right now, that would make me feel extremely uncomfortable indeed...

Why is that?

What you mean by that?!?! ;p
Well, take me for instance... :p

True though. Illiteracy is prevalent in the UK because spelling and grammar are not taught in the way they are in foreign language courses. A foreign language course in English actually offers an education superior to that found in most British schools.

America.

Sorry while I would love to visit Europe. I love everything America stands for as well as has done. Sure we made, and will make mistakes, but so does every country.

not for the wealthy.

Because only the wealthy receive schooling nowadays. *polishes his sceptre*

Because English is such an uncommonly spoken language.

It's hardly universal though, is it?

I love everything America stands for.

I giggled a bit there.

I giggled a bit there.

Haha :p

I giggled a bit there.
So did I, followed by an eye roll. :D

http://www.bized.ac.uk/images/eu_flag.jpg

.

It's hardly universal though, is it?

Well, it's not universal even in the UK.

You'll see that your little language is no match for our mainland linguistic skills. We've dealt with German and French and Spanish and Italian and Latin and who knows what else through the years - English poses no obstacle. Also, it would do you lot well to learn another one.

It would have to be the EU, however, I do like the warm Floridian climate and thunderstorms:D . But it has to be good old britain, mainly because of the history and the beautiful scenery everwhere you go.

The UK will probably end up joining the EU. There's too much history and common goals there to just ignore.

I can imagine the headlines in the British newspapers: "Europe joins UK."

So did I, followed by an eye roll. :D

Yeah, you know what they think it stands for, and I guess it is deserving of an eye roll, especially this side of the 70s.

The UK will probably end up joining the EU. There's too much history and common goals there to just ignore.

I can imagine the headlines in the British newspapers: "Europe joins UK."

Hehehe

Europe. Of course I'm an idealist and would love to see a "United States of the World" option.

You're making me choose between betrayal and suffering... I think I'll go cookies... :D

The UK will probably end up joining the EU. There's too much history and common goals there to just ignore.

I can imagine the headlines in the British newspapers: "Europe joins UK."

Umm, tell me this is a joke and that you do know that GB is already part of the EU. Please, just tell me.

Europe. Of course I'm an idealist and would love to see a "United States of the World" option.

Where would the Capital be ;p

It would have to be the EU, however, I do like the warm Floridian climate and thunderstorms:D . But it has to be good old britain, mainly because of the history and the beautiful scenery everwhere you go.

I love the Florida climate *glances at location* and everyone down here seems to THRIVE off thunderstorms.

No but seriously, we dont have that many thunderstorms, most of the time its just hot, sunny, and humid out. And I LOVE IT!

Oh yeah, go America!

Where would the Capital be ;p

Geneva, either that or Bratislava....:p

I love the Florida climate *glances at location* and everyone down here seems to THRIVE off thunderstorms.

No but seriously, we dont have that many thunderstorms, most of the time its just hot, sunny, and humid out. And I LOVE IT!

Oh yeah, go America!

Yes because if we become a state of America our weather will change suddenly... :rolleyes: either your being funny or your not thinking.

Where would the Capital be ;p

Well, the Hague seems popular. Geneva, even.

Where would the Capital be ;p
We can have a civil war to decide that later. :D

Yes because if we become a state of America our weather will change suddenly... :rolleyes: either your being funny or your not thinking.

Maybe its you whos not thinking, since that person I quoted was talking about the Floridian climate. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Umm, tell me this is a joke and that you do know that GB is already part of the EU. Please, just tell me.
I remembered that old story when the fog was so thick that ferries couldn't cross the channel. There was no chunnel back then, you see. The resulting headline was famous: "Europe cut off!"

The British, living in an island and all that, consider themselves somewhat separate from Europe, or the Continent as they sometimes call it. Of course, they're part of Europe and the European Union, but it wouldn't have worked if I had to explain all that.

I think that the US and EU are close enough already. All I hear on the news is negotiations between Bush and Blair. It would be nice if we had the same currency. Of course the £. I hear the rest of Europe doesn't like the euro.

Maybe its you whos not thinking, since that person I quoted was talking about the Floridian climate. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I do apologise i meant to quote the guy you quoted.
Quoted. Quote. so... quote me.

I hate when people criticize G. W. Bush. I would like to see anyone of u take office right now, and do a better job. After Clinton left office he looked like he had aged 50 years since he took office. Also to be a good leader, you don't have to be a genuis, your subordinates just have to be smart. Cheney, and Rice(just to name two) are incredibly smart. Oh yeah Bush got better grades in school than Kerry.

I wasn't saying that if we joined America the climate would change to thiers. :rolleyes: I was just saying how nice the floridian climate was.

I hate when people criticize G. W. Bush. I would like to see anyone of u take office right now, and do a better job. After Clinton left office he looked like he had aged 50 years since he took office. Also to be a good leader, you don't have to be a genuis, your subordinates just have to be smart. Cheney, and Rice(just to name two) are incredibly smart. Oh yeah Bush got better grades in school than Kerry.

Einstein failed school for ages. So No. :p

G. W. Bush is the worst democratic-leader ever. Hes a No.
the fact u guys voted him in twice is like sleeping with your best mates gf.
its like "...dude."

I hate when people criticize G. W. Bush. I would like to see anyone of u take office right now, and do a better job.

Feel free to elect me president, and then we'll see.

He's right, you've got to admit, bush is pretty bad. However it must be hard to run a country.

Elect me. America would do alot better with communism.

Elect me. America would do alot better with communism.

America would NOT BE America with communism, you should do well to know that.

America would BE America with communism, you should do well to know that.
Thanks, I will count on having your vote.

As soon as the EU stops worrying about double-decker buses and whatnot...

Thanks, I will count on having your vote.

Haha, I meant America would NOT BE America....so I'm gonna have to change my vote. Hey, what can I say, I live in South Florida.

Haha, I meant America would NOT BE America....so I'm gonna have to change my vote. Hey, what can I say, I live in South Florida.

And the Resistance lived in Germany 1939-1945. So what.
Ur in florida, do something for other people and dont be selfish.
Vote Left-Wing

http://www.bized.ac.uk/images/eu_flag.jpg
*salutes the USE*

And the Resistance lived in Germany 1939-1945. So what.
Ur in florida, do something for other people and dont be selfish.
Vote Left-Wing

What the hell are you talking about..the resistance lived in Germany?????

Also, in case you havnt noticed....Florida is a RED state. Whatever you want to say about the 2000 elections doesnt cancel out the fact that we voted for Bush again in 2004 and my family and I couldnt have it any other way :p

Go red Florida.....not communist red, republican red.

Feel free to elect me president, and then we'll see.

Oh, don't be silly. They don't elect presidents in the US.

Oh, don't be silly. They don't elect presidents in the US.

Hahahahahahah (falls back) Excellent. Can i pinch that for my quotes page please?

Hahahahahahah (falls back) Excellent. Can i pinch that for my quotes page please?

It's funny 'cause it's true, and, no, you may not.

It's funny 'cause it's true, and, no, you may not.

:( evil person.

:( evil person.

That should come as no surprise.

Einstein failed school for ages. So No. :p

G. W. Bush is the worst democratic-leader ever. Hes a No.
the fact u guys voted him in twice is like sleeping with your best mates gf.
its like "...dude."

First off, Einstein actually did quite well academically (at least in math and science) the whole "Einstein failed school" thing kinda aggravates me. He didn't fail, he just had disciplinary issues (Einstein felt that his school was totally authoritarian, and run like a military camp).

Secondly, in our defense, we only really elected him the second time. The first time the Supreme Court elected him. Though the second election was admittedly more unbelievable (I remember spending about a week just thinking "What...the...fuck?" over and over).

(I remember spending about a week just thinking "What...the...fuck?" over and over).

Meanwhile I was down in South Florida partying with my fellow righties that Florida got even redder than it was during the 2000 elections!

Actually mate english is one of the most spoken languages in the world, dumbass!!:sniper:

Actually mate english is one of the most spoken languages in the world, dumbass!!:sniper:

THE most by the numbers.
Spanish is the most by Country to Country apparently but English is the most by people.

As bad as America is, Europe is much worse. The UK would be much better off joining with America as our economic policies are so much better.

As bad as America is, Europe is much worse. The UK would be much better off joining with America as our economic policies are so much better.
i disagree

i disagree

Me too.
As my father always used to say "







"

Funny.


You'll all be trying to move to the US soon enough anyway...


It's more than 10% now, right?

The Muslim population of France I mean? :confused:


http://www.jihadwatch.org/britain_prophet_drawings_llp117.jpeg

Denmark's got it even worse.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/photo/12006/m34528.jpg

have fun over the next few years! :) See you when you get here!

Funny.


You'll all be trying to move to the US soon enough anyway...


It's more than 10% now, right?

The Muslim population of France I mean? :confused:


http://www.jihadwatch.org/britain_prophet_drawings_llp117.jpeg

Denmark's got it even worse.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/photo/12006/m34528.jpg

have fun over the next few years! :) See you when you get here!

The reason America doesnt have a problem with our muslims, is because they (for the most part) integrate into soceity. In Europe the reason that they ARE having problems is because the the muslims are NOT integrating into soceity. I beleive France, Denmark and the low countries are the worst. England isnt too bad right now, and while Germany has lots of muslims, they are turks which arnt extreame muslims nor are they even arabs.

Funny.


You'll all be trying to move to the US soon enough anyway...


It's more than 10% now, right?

The Muslim population of France I mean? :confused:
No thanks, America has far too many blacks and jews. :rolleyes:

Honestly. What kind of people do you think we are? :mad: I could never live in a country as racist as the US.

Meanwhile I was down in South Florida partying with my fellow righties that Florida got even redder than it was during the 2000 elections!

Just a small point, but shouldn't the republicans be blue? After all, red has traditionally been associated with the politics of the left.

No thanks, America has far too many blacks and jews. :rolleyes:

Honestly. What kind of people do you think we are? :mad: I could never live in a country as racist as the US.

We arnt racist. We just dont trip over ourselves in effort to be politically correct.

But now that I think about it, America doesnt have that many Jews. Just mainly in New York, Florida and California...lol.

No thanks, America has far too many blacks and jews. :rolleyes:

Honestly. What kind of people do you think we are? :mad: I could never live in a country as racist as the US.:p Europe is FAR more racist than the US. :p You guys over there are so racist you even distinguish between races we don't even know about over here.

There's an actual story about a reporter from a major US newspaper that was covering Bosnia. He was supposed to show up at a meeting at the UN and accidentally walked into a meeting about aid for Africa. When he tried to excuse himself the people at the meeting asked him if he would stay and describe the situation there for them. He said it was hard to talk about because he had seen so much killing and that he couldn't make heads or tails of it a lot of the time because he could not tell one person from another. What astonished him was the fact that THEY could. He couldn't understand how these people that all looked alike to him could tell the difference between each other and then kill each other over facial features he couldn't even distinguish.

I'm not racist. My fiance is Iranian. She's actually here in the US because her father, who is a physics professor, had to leave Iran because after the Iranian Jihad in 1979 they wanted to kill him and his family because they were not Muslim and were considered intelectuals.

We arnt racist. We just dont trip over ourselves in effort to be politically correct.
Uh-huh. The guy saying Europe is going to see an exodus of people trying to escape the muslims, is just "telling it like it is"? :rolleyes:

Uh-huh. The guy saying Europe is going to see an exodus of people trying to escape the muslims, is just "telling it like it is"? :rolleyes:


When did they make Muslim a race?:confused:

I hate when that happens. I miss everything. I didn't even know they were talking about making it a race. :(

4 of you arguments for the EU actually make me want to join the US more...

especially George Bush, and especially the fact we're on the same political scale as others in the EU. We need to re-educated the lefties and teach them that God explains things, not science.

When did they make Muslim a race?:confused:

I hate when that happens. I miss everything. I didn't even know they were talking about making it a race. :(
Well, you talk that kind of shit in Europe, it would be race hate laws that would get applied in court. Separate religious hatred legislation just doesn't seem to have caught on.

We need to re-educated the lefties and teach them that God explains things, not science.
:rolleyes: I really hope that is satire.

Yeh America isnt racist at all. (Kicks you when your not looking)
COUGH SLAVERYABOLISHION COUGH
COUGH BLACKVOTE COUGH
COUGH KKK COUGH

:) how are you all?

Yeh America isnt racist at all. (Kicks you when your not looking)
COUGH SLAVERYABOLISHION COUGH
COUGH BLACKVOTE COUGH
COUGH KKK COUGH

:) how are you all?
Of course we know Europe is filled with a bunch of religious fanatics because of the Inqusition and 30 Years War.

Yeh America isnt racist at all. (Kicks you when your not looking)
COUGH SLAVERYABOLISHION COUGH
COUGH BLACKVOTE COUGH
COUGH KKK COUGH

:) how are you all?
Holocaust (cough)
Bosnia (cough)
Skin head riots (cough)

Of course we know Europe is filled with a bunch of religious fanatics because of the Inqusition and 30 Years War.

(Grins)
Big difference, the KKK is still around, Blackvote wasnt brought in in america till late 1960 and you still all cried about it.
And we abolished slavery MILES ahead of you.
Plus you discriminate against Gays.
And Easterners.

THE most by the numbers.
Spanish is the most by Country to Country apparently but English is the most by people.

No, it isn't. (http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/languages.htm)

Just a small point, but shouldn't the republicans be blue? After all, red has traditionally been associated with the politics of the left.

Really, I thought it was only associated with Communism, and Communism is relativly new. Newer than Republicans anyway.

And we abolished slavery MILES ahead of you.
Excellent point. In Britain, it took an Act of Parliament in 1833 to abolish slavery. Decades later, America had to spend years fighting a civil war over it, and to this day half the country believes the wrong side won.

(Grins)
Big difference, the KKK is still around, Blackvote wasnt brought in in america till late 1960 and you still all cried about it.
And we abolished slavery MILES ahead of you.
Plus you discriminate against Gays.
And Easterners.

The KKK is around, but just like your average European neo Nazi group.

You tried to systematically slaughter an entire religious people.

You have started and the worst wars history has ever seen.

You have invented Fascism, Nazism, and Communism.

You have STARTED the slave trade.

You have colonized Africa, Asia, North America, South America, Australia.

Jesus, need I say more?

By the way, I dont actually hold this shit against Europe, its just that you are trying to pin shit on my country, so I am posting this in response.

No, it isn't. (http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/languages.htm)

I stand corrected.

Excellent point. In Britain, it took an Act of Parliament in 1833 to abolish slavery. Decades later, America had to spend years fighting a civil war over it, and to this day half the country believes the wrong side won.

You only abolished it because it didnt serve Englands purposes anymore. Were as half of OUR country still needed it. (Even though it was of course wrong)

Well, you talk that kind of shit in Europe, it would be race hate laws that would get applied in court. Separate religious hatred legislation just doesn't seem to have caught on.
Oh, man!

I thought you guys believed in freedom of expression, too. :(


For the record, I was arrested twice in the 1980's for protesting in front of the South African consulate. I spent two years working for the Committee in Solidarity with the People of El Salvador. I was arrested once at the National Guard Armory for protesting weapons shipments to the Contras in Nicaragua. I am against the war in Iraq and think that the problems in the Bush Adminitsration stem not from evil conspiracy but from unmitigated stupidity and the guy who says God should teach us rather than science scares me almost as much as devout Muslims do, though I doubt he feels the punishment for publishing a cartoon should be death by beheading.

Again, I'm not racist. I am 100% sure that there is no genetic defect in Arabs or any other predominantly Muslim race that makes them any better or worse than anyone else. As I stated earlier, my Fiance happens to be Iranian, though she likes to call herself Persian. I think religion, especially taken to extreme, is a very scary and dangerous thing. I think there is a particular violent streak in Islam. I think Europe is already having big problems assimilating Islam and I think it's going to get worse.

I'm an atheist. Having said that I wonder why the only religion people are allowed to criticize is Christianity? :confused: If I said that the reason I'm not fond of the Southern U.S. is because I hate the mix of Christianity and politics would you all be calling me racist?

Jesus, need I say more?
Yeah. You inherited the whole organised crime empire. We did all that, and you live off it just the same as we did, pretending it's got nothing to do with you. :p

:rolleyes: The KKK is around, but just like your average European neo Nazi group.

You tried to systematically slaughter an entire religious people.

You have started and the worst wars history has ever seen.

You have invented Fascism, Nazism, and Communism.

You have STARTED the slave trade.

You have colonized Africa, Asia, North America, South America, Australia.

Jesus, need I say more?

May i poke you in the eye please?
We were here FIRST idiota you ARE US like it or NOT! :rolleyes: to use stuff against us from before American Colonialisation is useless so NO!
YOU are ALSO the ones who invaded West american under manifestestiny... you invaded Hawaii too. Guttin. We Invented Facism. True. Nazism. True, although this is the same as Facism. Communism (HOWS THAT BAD?!?!?!)
I can smell your a republican from here!
Not ONLY are you anti-eastern but anti-mexican and anti-canadian.
ALSO anti-communist and anti-gay.
Face it buuuuuudy your about as intolerant as they get.

ARGUEMENTS FOR AMERICA.
There really quite nice really. (Above the Bible Belt.)


Besides the religious wackos that you will find everywhere (not just the US) the south is has the nicest people. The South is known for its hospitality.

(Grins)
Big difference, the KKK is still around, Blackvote wasnt brought in in america till late 1960 and you still all cried about it.
And we abolished slavery MILES ahead of you.
Plus you discriminate against Gays.
And Easterners.Since you're European I'll forgive your ignorance of American history.


The KKK is an extremely small, fringe organization that is only around because our constitution states:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Th 15th amendment to the constituion:

Amendment XV

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.


was passed onFeb. 3rd, 1870. African Americans in some southern states were being descriminated against in the 1960s and were subjected to "tests" in order to vote. Th response from the federal government was to declare voting tests unconstitutional and to send the National Guard down to enforce the voting rights act.

Slavery was abolished in the Northern US years before it was in most of Europe. It was only allowed in the South because they threatened to walk away from the Union during the second Constitutional Congress. The compromise was that slavery was given a time limit after which it would be abolished nation-wide. When the South refused we had the Civil War.

Since you're European I'll forgive your ignorance of American history.


The KKK is an extremely small, fringe organization that is only around because our constitution states:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Th 15th amendment to the constituion:

Amendment XV

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.


was passed onFeb. 3rd, 1870. African Americans in some southern states were being descriminated against in the 1960s and were subjected to "tests" in order to vote. Th response from the federal government was to declare voting tests unconstitutional and to send the National Guard down to enforce the voting rights act.

Slavery was abolished in the Northern US years before it was in most of Europe. It was only allowed in the South because they threatened to walk away from the Union during the second Constitutional Congress. The compromise was that slavery was given a time limit after which it would be abolished nation-wide. When the South refused we had the Civil War.

Dude i really dont care about ammendments,
What does the British Constitution say then buddy? huh?

Dude i really dont care about ammendments,
What does the British Constitution say then buddy? huh?
What does teh British Constitution have to do with wether African Americans weren't allowed to vote in the US until the 60s, wether the KKK is some sort of mainstream established organization in the US or when slavery was abolished in the US? :confused:

Since you're European I'll forgive your ignorance of American history :

Since your American i'll forgive your insolence of the fact we british dont HAVE a constitution.

The KKK is around, but just like your average European neo Nazi group.

You tried to systematically slaughter an entire religious people.

You have started and the worst wars history has ever seen.

You have invented Fascism, Nazism, and Communism.

You have STARTED the slave trade.

You have colonized Africa, Asia, North America, South America, Australia.

Jesus, need I say more?

By the way, I dont actually hold this shit against Europe, its just that you are trying to pin shit on my country, so I am posting this in response.

May one just register the following. The aslave trade, and religious and ethnic genocide, were developments made in Ancient Egypt and Mesopatamia, somwehat beyond the boundaries of Europe no?

As for wars and colonialism, yes, Europe is culpable however I am a staunch advocate of colonialism and am frankly damn proud of our imperialistic history, whilt the wars essentially demonstrate the power wielded by European states, and acordingly further empower Europe.

Since your American i'll forgive your insolence of the fact we british dont HAVE a constitution.
okay, maybe we're crossing wires here...:confused:

You said African Americans were not allowed to vote in the US until the 60s. I pointed out that that was not true and that they were given the right to vote about 100 years ealier than that.

You implied that because we have the KKK that America was racist. I pointed out that the KKK is a very small, marginalized organization that can't possibly be used as a measuring stick for the American public and that it only exists because our constitution guarentees everyone the right to free speech and the right to assemble.

You said that Europe abolished slavery before the US. I pointed out that, while technically true it was only one region in the US that allowed it and they only reason why the North, where slavery was abolished long before the Civil War and at about the same time as much of Europe, allowed it was for fear of breaking up the Union and that when push came to shove the North invaded the South in part to force abolishion of slavery.

I never mentioned anything about the UK and wether or not it had a constitution. In fact I never thought it did until you asked me what it said a few posts up. :confused:

okay, maybe we're crossing wires here...:confused:

You said African Americans were not allowed to vote in the US until the 60s. I pointed out that that was not true and that they were given the right to vote about 100 years ealier than that.

You implied that because we have the KKK that America was racist. I pointed out that the KKK is a very small, marginalized organization that can't possibly be used as a measuring stick for the American public and that it only exists because our constitution guarentees everyone the right to free speech and the right to assemble.

You said that Europe abolished slavery before the US. I pointed out that, while technically true it was only one region in the US that allowed it and they only reason why the North, where slavery was abolished long before the Civil War and at about the same time as much of Europe, allowed it was for fear of breaking up the Union and that when push came to shove the North invaded the South in part to force abolishion of slavery.

I never mentioned anything about the UK and wether or not it had a constitution. In fact I never thought it did until you asked me what it said a few posts up. :confused:

Apologies, i thought you were accusing me of Idiocy for not knowing the American Constitution.
You are still viewed as quite a Racist country in comparisson to others.

Great arguing with you guys! I'm off work now so I gotta go buy a whole bunch of Danish beer and cheese for the Superbowl party! Contrary to how i may have come across I have enormous respect for Europe and recognize it as the birthplace of most of the values I hold dear. As such I am telling all my friends to BUY DANISH until this Muslim assault on freedom of the press ends. ;)

I'll be back to argue again on Monday! :)

Since your American i'll forgive your insolence of the fact we british dont HAVE a constitution.

Then why did you ask this???

Dude i really dont care about ammendments,
What does the British Constitution say then buddy? huh?

Then why did you ask this???

Wrong order mac.
I asked what the British constitution says because i meet americans and they ALWAYS think we have one.

Apologies, i thought you were accusing me of Idiocy for not knowing the American Constitution.
You are still viewed as quite a Racist country in comparisson to others.
That's probably only because we are more adept at hanging our dirty laundry out for all to see. I've lived here all my life and, while I admit I live in Los Angeles, a place known for tolerence, I think you may have a distorted view based on the fact that our freedom of speech and of the press also protects racist speech. This means that loud, vocal minorities get a lot of press.

That's probably only because we are more adept at hanging our dirty laundry out for all to see. I've lived here all my life and, while I admit I live in Los Angeles, a place known for tolerence, I think you may have a distorted view based on the fact that our freedom of speech and of the press also protects racist speech. This means that loud, vocal minorities get a lot of press.

American free speech heehe that made me giggle.

G. W. Bush is the worst democratic-leader ever. Hes a No.
the fact u guys voted him in twice is like sleeping with your best mates gf.
its like "...dude."


Lol, we only democratically elected him once, 2004. he received less votes than the loser in 2000...It was the most blatant show of corruption since African elections started to be monitored.

It was the most blatant show of corruption since African elections started to be monitored.
And the winner is! . . . el Presidente! :p

Lol, we only democratically elected him once, 2004. he received less votes than the loser in 2000...It was the most blatant show of corruption since African elections started to be monitored.

I dunno.. say what you will about the electoral college, but it was established long before George Bush had the notion to run for president.. I understand Gore voters' resentment of the Supreme Court for deciding against them, but they do have the authority to make that decision.. I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'corrupt,' even if it was unfortunate.

American free speech heehe that made me giggle.
Ummm... You're goimg to have to back that up. I've lived in teh US my whole life and not one single time has anyone ever abridged my right to speak even when I was a member of organizations that were highly critical of our government. Even under Ronald Reagan when I would walk around wearing T-Shirts advocating his death. I've never even heard of anyone's right to speak being infringed here unless they were inciting to riot or were invading a private affair in which case they weren't actually censored, just told they could say what they wanted in that particular venue. If you have information about people's right to speak being censored here, please let me in on it.

Even under Ronald Reagan when I would walk around wearing T-Shirts advocating his death...If you have information about people's right to speak being censored here, please let me in on it.
Try doing that with Bush today. Let us know how you get on.

I do not like it when people refer to the EU as a nation. It's a freaking political union! did you not go to school when you were kids??

Also, I hate the EU, but not europe. The EU is evil, but no Europe. *burns the EU's flag*

Also, I hate the EU, but not europe. The EU is evil, but no Europe. *burns the EU's flag*
There is nothing I hate more than the European Norm electrical safety standards. :mad:

There is nothing I hate more than the European Norm electrical safety standards. :mad:

Huh??
Anyways: The EU is a threat to sovereignty, but not europe. *burns yet another EU flag*

Huh??
I was taking the piss. Most people are pretty ignorant of EU legislation. They only remember the xenophobic tabloid stories about straight bananas. And by and large, opposition to the EU is rather quaint xenophobia, in the UK at least.

Where are the cookies though?

Where are the cookies though?
The EU forced a product recall due to non-compliant nut traces labelling.

The EU forced a product recall due to non-compliant nut traces labelling.
Have you seen the "British Sausage" episode of Yes, Minister? (I don't recall what the episode was really called, but it's the one where the title character gets the nod to become party leader and PM.)

Where are the cookies though?
ever heard of a joke option?

Have you seen the "British Sausage" episode of Yes, Minister? (I don't recall what the episode was really called, but it's the one where the title character gets the nod to become party leader and PM.)
Yes, I have. :D

The electoral college was designed and brought into usage because the fathers of the U.S. constitution really thought that the people in the United States were too stupid to vote in our president by direct vote, and that was in the late 1700's..Now with almost universal-free education our literacy rate is about 98%..I don't think we're to stupid anymore, we've graduated.

ever heard of a joke option?

Ever heard of sarcasm without smileys?

If you HAD to choose, between becoming a State of America or becoming a State of Europe, which would it be? (primarily aimed at British.)
ARGUEMENTS FOR EUROPE.
G. W. Bush
Geographical Reasons.
We're already heading that way
ALMOST same posistion on Political scale between countries in EU
We'd be an UBERuberuber Hyper-Power.
Nation Health Service

ARGUEMENTS FOR AMERICA.
Same Language
Same(ish) Culture
We'd Give the Democrats the Edge ;p
There really quite nice really. (Above the Bible Belt.)
Hawaii. (Cheap holidays make British go "VOTE AMERICA!")

SOOOoooo debate my points and urs! And awnser my poll pweese


Um, as an Irish girl living in the US, suppose I have the best of both worlds here. Well, in fairness, despite Bertie Ahern (our 'prime minister' or taoiseach - NO, not a bad reaction Irish people have to drinking to much tea!), rip off Ireland, and corrupt politicians promising anything to get a cushy job in the EU parliment, Europe is a rather progressive and affuent region. I like being part of a multicultural region, I like knowing that there's money there when I go to do my post grad course when I get back to Ireland, I like knowing that I have access to free health care and third level education, decent social welfare, and also knowing that we're not particularly hated by anyone really, probably because we're too small to annoy anyone enough to warrant an ass kicking.

As for the US, well, would you want to be surrounded by people who not only voted Bush for president, but did it TWICE?!? And people who can't concieve of a world outside their own borders? And people who declare the team who win the Superbowl ever year to be World Champions, desipe the fact that the rest of the world really couldn't give a hoot. Like Ireland calling their All Ireland championship winners World class hurlers when really they're nothing more than a bunch of lads who met down the pub who decided to get together for a bit of practise once a week...

Try doing that with Bush today. Let us know how you get on.
I do everyday. Loudly. So do millions of other Americans. Most of our newspapers have editorial departments that are downright hostile to the Bush Administration. Everywhere our president goes he is followed by hundreds of loud, Bush-bashing protestors calling him a war criminal and a Nazi and calling for him to be impeached and they all seem fine.

The guy's stupid and his convictions that fly in the face of fact and common sense make him dangerous, but he's not a dictator. He'll be gone in three years and he'll probably lose his hold on Congress this year and then he'll be a lame duck all because our press has felt no compunction about reporting stories like his chief of staff's top aid being indicted and his anemic at best response to the huricanes, our columnists and newspapers having no problem criticizing teh war in Iraq and publishing pictures from Abu Graihb on teh front pages and lead stories of every news outlet in the country.


My freedom of speech is just fine, thank you.;)

http://www.bized.ac.uk/images/eu_flag.jpg

http://www.solomonscookies.com/gfx/catalog/cookies/black_label/bl_chocolate_chip.jpg

If you HAD to choose, between becoming a State of America or becoming a State of Europe, which would it be? (primarily aimed at British.)
ARGUEMENTS FOR EUROPE.
G. W. Bush
Geographical Reasons.
We're already heading that way
ALMOST same posistion on Political scale between countries in EU
We'd be an UBERuberuber Hyper-Power.
Nation Health Service

ARGUEMENTS FOR AMERICA.
Same Language
Same(ish) Culture
We'd Give the Democrats the Edge ;p
There really quite nice really. (Above the Bible Belt.)
Hawaii. (Cheap holidays make British go "VOTE AMERICA!")

SOOOoooo debate my points and urs! And awnser my poll pweese



Thanks for the flamebait. :rolleyes:


I voted cookies because I don't like either.

:rolleyes:

May i poke you in the eye please?
We were here FIRST idiota you ARE US like it or NOT! :rolleyes: to use stuff against us from before American Colonialisation is useless so NO!
YOU are ALSO the ones who invaded West american under manifestestiny... you invaded Hawaii too. Guttin. We Invented Facism. True. Nazism. True, although this is the same as Facism. Communism (HOWS THAT BAD?!?!?!)
I can smell your a republican from here!
Not ONLY are you anti-eastern but anti-mexican and anti-canadian.
ALSO anti-communist and anti-gay.
Face it buuuuuudy your about as intolerant as they get.

First of all...Europeans were the ones that practiced imperialism...so did Americans but not anywhere near to the same extent. Also...are you trying to compare two world wars...along with the worst dictators in history...to an annexation of Hawaii and the movement westward? Also, Nazism and Fascism are not the same. Communism...IS bad...you being a communist, are a biased opinion. I am a republican.

As for all those anits you have at the bottom. Where the hell did you pull all that out from?????

May one just register the following. The aslave trade, and religious and ethnic genocide, were developments made in Ancient Egypt and Mesopatamia, somwehat beyond the boundaries of Europe no?

As for wars and colonialism, yes, Europe is culpable however I am a staunch advocate of colonialism and am frankly damn proud of our imperialistic history, whilt the wars essentially demonstrate the power wielded by European states, and acordingly further empower Europe.

I agree with you on the second paragraph and I am only simply arguing the comments made by Europa Alpha, thats all. However, on the first paragraph, the fact that other people had similar "ethnic cleansings" does not change the fact that Europeans committed the holocuast, the Dutch started the slave trade, the Catholic Church persecuted religious minorities.

May one just register the following. The aslave trade, and religious and ethnic genocide, were developments made in Ancient Egypt and Mesopatamia, somwehat beyond the boundaries of Europe no?

As for wars and colonialism, yes, Europe is culpable however I am a staunch advocate of colonialism and am frankly damn proud of our imperialistic history, whilt the wars essentially demonstrate the power wielded by European states, and acordingly further empower Europe.



Yeah. Invading almost every country on earth, forcing your culture on and killing countless innocent people just because they weren't european is something to be proud of!


European imperialism is NOTHING to be proud of and should be a source of shame and embarrassment not pride. You should be ashamed of yourself.


Imperialism

n 1: a policy of extending your rule over foreign countries 2: a political orientation that advocates imperial interests 3: any instance of aggressive extension of authority


I hope most europeans don't think like you.

Europe, definitely! Say no to those puritan right-wing loonies! :rolleyes:

Yeah. Invading almost every country on earth, forcing your culture on and killing countless innocent people just because they weren't european is something to be proud of!


European imperialism is NOTHING to be proud of and should be a source of shame and embarrassment not pride. You should be ashamed of yourself.


Imperialism

n 1: a policy of extending your rule over foreign countries 2: a political orientation that advocates imperial interests 3: any instance of aggressive extension of authority


I hope most europeans don't think like you.

...american...
FINE can we have our cities and resources back please? If you disown imperialism give us back our goddamn cities!
We shoulda dismantled Hong-Kong before we left ungrateful peoples!!!

Coooooooooooooooooookies

:rolleyes: I really hope that is satire.

Why would it be satire?

...american...
FINE can we have our cities and resources back please? If you disown imperialism give us back our goddamn cities!
We shoulda dismantled Hong-Kong before we left ungrateful peoples!!!

Are you joking or are you really this much of a dick? Anyway, I wonder what it feels like when one of your colonies and lands you imperialized grows up to become better than you?

Europe, definitely! Say no to those puritan right-wing loonies! :rolleyes:
I know. Bush, and the (entire) republican party are a bunch of corrupt and wickedly evil fools.
Still, the EU is an evil empire, but not europe *burns EU flag*

id prefer america to join britain

*doesn't read through topic*

America, by miles dude. Become a European state and 15 minutes later you surrender.

I know. Bush, and the (entire) republican party are a bunch of corrupt and wickedly evil fools.
Still, the EU is an evil empire, but not europe *burns EU flag*

How are we corrupt?

Yeah. Invading almost every country on earth, forcing your culture on and killing countless innocent people just because they weren't european is something to be proud of!


European imperialism is NOTHING to be proud of and should be a source of shame and embarrassment not pride. You should be ashamed of yourself.


Imperialism

n 1: a policy of extending your rule over foreign countries 2: a political orientation that advocates imperial interests 3: any instance of aggressive extension of authority

Just as I'm sure you're ashamed of the US invading and ruling some of the southern states that were formerly mexican.

What would I like more, the plague, or cholera? Hmm...
Hehehe...Swedish...hehe....

Well, the British, Welsh, Scottish, and Northern Irish can do what they want.

*lurks*

Hehehe...Swedish...hehe....

It works!

It works!
That is much better than the English, "Choosing between the lesser of two evils."
I love that phrase!

I'd say EU-but only if we had too.

That is much better than the English, "Choosing between the lesser of two evils."
I love that phrase!

I think the proper English idiom to translate it to would be "between a rock and a hard place."

I hate that phrase!

I hate when people criticize G. W. Bush. I would like to see anyone of u take office right now, and do a better job. After Clinton left office he looked like he had aged 50 years since he took office. Also to be a good leader, you don't have to be a genuis, your subordinates just have to be smart. Cheney, and Rice(just to name two) are incredibly smart. Oh yeah Bush got better grades in school than Kerry.

Oh dear God...

My 10-year-old sister ccould do a better job as president, and she hasn't even finished 4th grade! At least she would know who to put in power. Most of the basic laws and such as of late are pretty simple in essence, and my family and I have actually managed to sit down almost every time a major law is in debate and explain it to my sister quite thoroughly. George W. Bush clearly understands these laws, and yet he's still done bad things and made horrible decisions. My sister is 10. What's his excuse?

And... AGED 50 YEARS? Do you even know how much time he has taken on vacation since he took office? Practically NO ONE ELSE in the country gets that much vacation time, and most of their jobs ARE harder.

And yes, you DO have to be smart. You don't have to be a genius, no, but I'd like the person governing a major power in the world to be able to pronounce the word "nuclear," since it is in use so much as of late. And grades in SCHOOL??? Come on! I don't get wonderful grades, and yet I'm still quite a bit more versed in law and politics than many pople I know my age! Heck, some of the smartest people I know got bad grades in school, and I'm talking REALLY smart people here!

And Cheney and Rice are smart. They are VERY smart. But I'd rather have a dumb, but responsible and noncorrupt person in the White House than the "smart" yet blatantly corrupt people currently ruining our economy, sending or soldiers to a useless war, and lying to us every other second of the day!

Free Speech wasn't given to allow people to criticize bands and such. It was named as a human right, allowing us to criticize our GOVERNMENT, to keep them in check! Try it!

...*catches breath* Okay... better now. Done ranting for the next 10 minutes.

Ta.

P.S. Oh, don't be silly. They don't elect presidents in the US.

Hahaha!!! You are a wonderful person. I don't even care how you are in real life. :) *hugs*

I think the proper English idiom to translate it to would be "between a rock and a hard place."

I hate that phrase!
I'm not quite sure, however, I don't like the second phrase either.

It just sounds stupid, if you ask me.

I think I used a pronoun when I should not of. When I said, "I love that phrase!" I was referring to the Swedish phrase, and not the English. (Just to be sure we're on the same page here.)

I think I used a pronoun when I should not of.

When you shouldn't've. :p

When I said, "I love that phrase!" I was referring to the Swedish phrase, and not the English. (Just to be sure we're on the same page here.)

My leet reading comprehension skillz got me that far.

I'm pretty sure that the "between a rock and a hardplace thing" is a catch-22. Ya know... the book and all. But I've always gone wth "the lesser of two evils." I like that phrase.

Hahaha!!! You are a wonderful person. I don't even care how you are in real life. :) *hugs*

I am of course a very pleasant and lovable person in real life, and I would hate it for someone to insinuate that I am not.

When you shouldn't've. :p
Heh, almost said that.

My leet reading comprehension skillz got me that far.
Okay, cool. Never know on the internets. :p
I'm not fluent in leet, though. I'm deprived.

I am of course a very pleasant and lovable person in real life, and I would hate it for someone to insinuate that I am not.

I never insinuated that you were. I was merely stating that I don't care. Since I don't know you personally, I can't really have an opinion based on your actions and behavior outside the little-plastic-machine-web. I'm sure you are a very pleasant and lovable person. Didn't meant to offend. However, I must sadly interrupt this little comment to say something to the people on page 9 and a few on 10:

CALM THE FLYING ******* **** DOWN!

Ah hell, what is this? It's gotten to be like a "my country can beat up yur country with our boxing gloves of righteousness" thing! Honestly! Neither The EU (which, I know, is not a contry) nor the US is perfect. Hell, I just criticized the heck out of a major Bush-supporter up there, and I'm American! That's right, born in New York, now living in California; two of the bluest states in the country.

Can we PLEASE stop with the sweeping generalizations about each country?

Not all Americans are Bible-thumping, GWBush-supporting white supremacists.

Not all Europeans are... well, as far as I can see, none of the Americans have really cricitized you personally, just things that have stemmed from EU countries.

Therefore, everyone should just take a good hard look at their OWN country and criticize their own government rather than other people's. Please, EU people, leave the Bush-bashing to the professionals. Please, US people, leave the... well, I can't say just ONE leader, so leave the EU bashing to the disgruntled EUers.

Wasn't this whole thing started as a FRIENDLY debate? POssily even a silly thing? Then somewhere around page 7 it got all nasty. What, do I have to sing "Give Peace a Chance"? 'Cause that's really not my favorite song, but I will do it! I warn you!

Ta.

I dont get what you mean in arguments for Europe when you say George Bush?

Anyway, England should come along over to us, not nessisarily become a state but get closer to America rather than joining the EU, we would always welcome our great over sea allies!

it's an implicit argument that he's against freedom for IRaq and Afghanistan, in favor of high taxes and more or less in favor of increased socialism, etc.

it also means that he thinks that non-US terrorists should be able to speak in secret with US terrorists.

hehe

CALM THE FLYING ******* **** DOWN!

Ditto. Really, ditto.

How are we corrupt?
Loot at bush.

Loot at bush.

Can't I've shaved recently.


No but seriously...how are we corrupt...?

If the UK had to lose its independence, I'd rather go with the USA than the declining, bickering morass that is the European continent.

Loot at bush.
Plunder at bush? Which bush? What kind?

If the UK had to lose its independence, I'd rather go with the USA than the declining, bickering morass that is the European continent.
I think you're from the peninsula of Asia that is often called Europe. Are you?

The UK will probably end up joining the EU. There's too much history and common goals there to just ignore.

I can imagine the headlines in the British newspapers: "Europe joins UK."
Why do so many Americans not know that the UK has been in the EU since 1973?

it's an implicit argument that he's against freedom for IRaq and Afghanistan, in favor of high taxes and more or less in favor of increased socialism, etc.
All these guys who imagine Bush as some sort of anti-socialist torchbearer amuse me so.

Why do so many Americans not know that the UK has been in the EU since 1973?
Its so confusing, you see. They don't have the Euro. Thus, we remain confused and go around thinking that Sweden isn't in the EU either. And then Canada, why aren't they in the EU? Its all so complicated.

Plunder at bush? Which bush? What kind?
First, I said look, not plunder.

Second, I mean that evil president.

Loot at bush.
Loot --> plunder, pillage

bush --> common noun; shrubbery

Its so confusing, you see. They don't have the Euro. Thus, we remain confused and go around thinking that Sweden isn't in the EU either. And then Canada, why aren't they in the EU? Its all so complicated.
Canada? Maybe because it's not a European country?

Canada? Maybe because it's not a European country?
Haha! :D

Canada? Maybe because it's not a European country?
But they have the Queen, and, they have the French like people there.
Psst...I was being sarcastic.

Still, the EU is an evil empire, but not europe *burns EU flag*
Then give them back their money!

Don't be silly. The Polish economy needs the EU, just like the EU needs the Polish economy. And as I say quite often these days - the balance in the EU has shifted. Britain, pretty much all of Eastern Europe and now Germany will all be quite ready to push for economic reforms, and political reforms if someone just made a good proposal.

So write to your politicians, make them do stuff!

As an American, and a resident of a "Bush" state, South Carolina (I love Carolina) I'm a part of a growing minority in my opinion that George W. Bush is an idiot of a President, and if he would just stop for a minute and really focus on diplomacy and humanitarianism, he would our country and the world a favor.

On the question of which would I choose Europe or America...well its a tough decision. In my opinion, I think that if one could ignore our current Presidential Administration, America would be a country with a lot to offer in all areas. For the most part, the people are just peachy, and life in general is great.

However, as person who loves History, Culture, and everything European, living in Europe would be a perpetual vacation. That great mass across the ocean never ceases to fill me with amazement and wonder.

I could live in either place just as happily. Even though America has horrible leadership at the moment, I kind of like being able to talk crap about old Dubyah. It the American way to bitch and complain about things we dont like. Even our President, and I'd tell that to any Bush-loving dick out there.
Europe is just amazing.

...american...
FINE can we have our cities and resources back please? If you disown imperialism give us back our goddamn cities!
We shoulda dismantled Hong-Kong before we left ungrateful peoples!!!




:rolleyes:

Just as I'm sure you're ashamed of the US invading and ruling some of the southern states that were formerly mexican.



I am not. That was different anyway. I am Japanese so I don't give a flying rat crap about the US or EU.