NationStates Jolt Archive

So, in their infinite the legislators of my glorious state have decided to force all people who live in certain zip codes to submit to mandatory government inspection when they want to buy a house. All of these zipcodes are in poor black neighborhoods. You know, cause if you're poor and african american you just can't be trusted to look out for yourself. You need the white man to check up and be sure you aren't being swindled.

The whole disgusting story at Crain's here: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=19346

Marcus Cole of Stanford Law hits the nail on the head here:
Nevertheless, Tuesday was a key moment in African-American History. On Tuesday, in addition to Mrs. King’s passing and Justice Alito’s elevation, the State of Illinois enacted a law that requires all mortgage applications within nine Chicago zip codes to undergo a process of review by the state’s Department of Financial and Professional Regulation. The department’s review process determines whether mortgage applicants in these neighborhoods must undergo compulsory credit counseling. If they must, then the mortgage lender must pay the cost of the counseling.

Anyone familiar with Chicago geography and demography knows these nine zip codes. They are all neighborhoods on the South and Southwest side of Chicago. They are predominantly African-American neighborhoods. These neighborhoods are some of the most impoverished in the City of Chicago, and indeed, the nation. On Tuesday, they suddenly became much poorer.

Although the legislators responsible for the new law were motivated by good intentions, they failed to consider the inevitable consequences of their bill. They wanted to protect poor homeowners in certain neighborhoods from high interest rates and predatory lending practices. The new law, however, necessarily increases the costs, time and uncertainty associated with mortgage applications in these black neighborhoods. The cost of credit counseling will be born by and charged to mortgage applicants. This, in turn, will necessarily decrease the price that new home-buyers can afford to pay for homes in these neighborhoods. If they can choose to buy in other neighborhoods, where housing money is more affordable, they, on the margin, will. Furthermore, recent studies of credit counseling programs suggest that these programs have little effect on borrower behavior. The end result is that homeowners in these poor black neighborhoods suddenly have less equity in their homes than they had on Monday.

Legislation like this is often motivated by an unspoken belief that poor black people are incapable of making important decisions for themselves. We see this belief reflected in the protection of failed public schools, and now with respect to personal finances. But the very people for whom such a law was enacted were responsible and wise enough to save to make the down payments necessary to buy these homes in the first place. Suddenly, these same people must have their choices reviewed and second-guessed by state bureaucrats who have no stake in the outcome, or accountability for incorrect or unresponsive decisions. It is hard to imagine the fate of a similar but broader law imposing credit counseling upon all Illinois residents, including white professionals residing in the Chicago suburbs of Evanston, Winnetka, or Kennilworth. Would there have been enough votes in Springfield to impose these “benefits” on everyone, rather than just the residents of the Southwest side of Chicago?

Source: http://www.blackprof.com/archives/2006/02/a_key_moment_in_black_history.html

God, this is the kind of snide paternalistic bullshit that happens when you treat adults like children. And the subtle racism that just curls right through this whole idea. Sometimes I hate this town...

Keep in mind, we are talking about the same city that thought packing a bunch of poor people together and stacking them on top of each other was a good idea…

I often find that the big cities where many blacks live tend to be more racist, intentionally or otherwise, than most of the rural areas. Of course, that's barring some of the more nutty areas in certain parts of the South and Maine, but still.

Chicago, murder capital of the country, no guns for anyone, and now you have to register with the government when you're buying a house.

Big Brother is looking out for you. >_>

Keep in mind, we are talking about the same city that thought packing a bunch of poor people together and stacking them on top of each other was a good idea…

Yah, new york did that too.

mind you, its pretty openly racist here too.

Keep in mind, we are talking about the same city that thought packing a bunch of poor people together and stacking them on top of each other was a good idea…

Its worse then that. After King Daley I put up the projects, he built a highway to cut the area off from white areas. Still, it was the state legislature that passed this piece of crap.

I'm no lawyer, but I'd wager that specifying 9 ZIP codes for this kind of legislation is not something that will withstand a formal legal challenge...

Pffft. Anyone who tries to challenge the legislation on this will be accused of being racist.

Chicago, murder capital of the country, no guns for anyone, unless you are in maximum security prison... :rolleyes: and now you have to register with the government when you're buying a house. Big Brother is looking out for you. >_>

Nope, Black folk will never be able to care for themselves without (Democrat) Govt help. Just ask Teddy. :rolleyes:

Its worse then that. After King Daley I put up the projects, he built a highway to cut the area off from white areas.
I’d never heard that before.
Fucking wow. I've always thought that they were the closest thing to Nazi ghettos in America, but that is just incredible.
Here I thought the South was suposed to be racist.:rolleyes:

I'm no lawyer, but I'd wager that specifying 9 ZIP codes for this kind of legislation is not something that will withstand a formal legal challenge...

Wanna bet that they'll just expand the program to cover all of chicago then?

Yes it is sad that a good population of the world makes it known/lets the blacks know they aren't intelligent enough or competent enough to rule their own lives, industries or countries.

People .. both sides ..are gonna take this a different way from what I intended, I'm certain.

Edit: not afraid.. was wrong word.. certain was the word.

But remember, they're trying to protect the blacks from us -eeeeevil- conservatives, so it's okay.

Wanna bet that they'll just expand the program to cover all of chicago then?

That's certainly possible. I just don't think that the premise of mandated credit counseling for those seeking to acquire residential real estate through secured debt is one that can be applied piecemeal.

That's certainly possible. I just don't think that the premise of mandated credit counseling for those seeking to acquire residential real estate through secured debt is one that can be applied piecemeal.

I presume that the ostensible reasoning behind this is that the vast majority of predatory morgage lending occurs in those zip-codes, so it's not a racial classification at all. I don't think that's true of course, but I imagine that is what they would argue.

I presume that the ostensible reasoning behind this is that the vast majority of predatory morgage lending occurs in those zip-codes, so it's not a racial classification at all. I don't think that's true of course, but I imagine that is what they would argue.

I imagine that's correct. I don't really buy it either, but I don't live there. My problem with that kind of legislative intent is that it leads to

"Well, people of race X are more likely to go to prison, so we should police them more heavily"

and then it just gets worse...

I presume that the ostensible reasoning behind this is that the vast majority of predatory morgage lending occurs in those zip-codes, so it's not a racial classification at all. I don't think that's true of course, but I imagine that is what they would argue.

luckily for us, empircal questions can be addressed by empircal data. so what sources were used in the crafting of this policy?

Call me what you want.

But my intentions aren't for the lowering, demeaning, or whatever else of the black people. And OMG , it would take alot of writing to really get out my thoughts so that people would understand what I'm meaning, and I'm not too good at expressing myself that way, which is why you won't catch my ass in a political office(among other reasons).. but I will try to put it as simply as I can.

-- I don't think it is healthy, for anyone to slam the races/cultures all together or even attempt to emerge us for the cry of diversity or multiculturalism. I believe it hinders both sides. [And yes I believe in race on this earth, we are man.. we are human.., in this world there is such a thing as race [if it wasnt race it would be something else, believe me brother. I have a feeling that the most discrimitory section(if we were all one color) would be family sects. Which would more than likey drive back to either race or money.]

Right now, money pretty much trumps all, with race running a close second IMO. If you deny race or the discrimination thereof , you are attempting to trump many struggles and movements that many have made, IMO.

As for the USA. ( Going on in many other countires.. but I live in the US , so I will speak US) -- What does this diversity do, exactly? IMO The government is making it plain as day that blacks cannot exist without the white man, or the white mans money. What the hell good is that doing for black people? Yes, I know it was wrong for the bastards that decided to grab africans as slaves and use them, breed them, split them up, etc. Many terrible things. But what now? We fight like hell when we are together, the known black "culture" in this country is nothing but a bunch of gangsters, thugs killers. Do you think it would be that way if we lived seperatly? I mean think about it. When it's something far away not affecting you, the results are usually a good thing. Just like when people in the US use to think the "so and so" were grand peoples, with much "culture". Let them start living together and thats when the shit starts to fly, they are no longer "culturally rich", they are now a crime and a nuisance. Why the hell do we feel we gotta live on top of each other? It's doing no one any good. The black man says (And I believe it) that they are ruled, trumped, discriminated against etc etc by the white man. Why the hell cant either seperate, give them their land back in africa(taking it from powers that be) give .find them a whoile new land and let them build up their own economy, nation etc. Haiti is out of the question I guess, It's terrible. Somewhere else.

Why is it a must that we all "go to bed together"?

I mean have you ever had a problem with someone/ some people you've never met? (if your answer to this is yes, then you might be a dumbass)

You've got a good head on your shoulders, sir.

Unfortunately, what you just said doesn't fit in with the mold that some of society has set for you. What sounds like a good idea to you and I will get you branded as a Nazi.

Mam, and yes it's terrible, cause I am anything but.

I'm a seperationist to an extent, for the better of all. If you don't understand where I coming from, well then you just don't understand where I'm coming from, and I can't really explain it to ya.

Ma'am it is.

---

The terms "Nazi," "Racist," "Sexist," and so forth have lost a lot of meaning in recent years. Everywhere you look, it seems someone's a racist, or someone's a fascist, or someone's a sexist. Yet, there's not an epidemic of these social asscans plaguing our country all of a sudden. Rather, the critera to be labelled as one has just changed to include many, many more opportunities.

For example, criticizing Ray Nagin for his hand in the Katrina disaster is racist.
Not replacing a woman on the Supreme Court with another woman is sexist.
Not supporting the ACLU is fascist.

If you disagree with any of the above, you're all at once.

That's my take on it, anyway. How about you?

Yes


http://hyvin.nukku.net/no/rasismi2.html

Oooh, I like.

This kind of thinking would be beneficial to any side of the political spectrum. "Logic," what a novel concept!

I hope it's read, even in secret. Makes a lot of sense.

Wanna bet that they'll just expand the program to cover all of chicago then?
Well, The Young Emperor needs to find another way to hire cronies since the Hired Truck thing seems to have fallen apart... :rolleyes:

Keep in mind, we are talking about the same city that thought packing a bunch of poor people together and stacking them on top of each other was a good idea…
Keep in mind that this is only a manifestation of...

"We're from the government, and we're here to help you..."

Racist

New lending law outlines zip codes for credit counseling
Nine areas on Southwest Side singled out for education
(Crain’s) — A new state predatory lending law requiring home buyers to receive credit counseling before finalizing their purchases will apply initially to nine zip codes on the city’s Southwest Side, state regulators announced late Friday.

The law requires the state’s Department of Financial and Professional Regulation to set up a pilot program within Cook County and set up a database with information on mortgages made within the area’s borders. In designating the nine zip codes, the department chose a part of the city that has experienced more high-rate mortgages than other areas.

Under the law, which goes into effect next month, the department reviews all proposed mortgages and determines whether a buyer should receive credit counseling before closing. If so, the broker or mortgage lender must pay the costs of counseling.

The affected zip codes are:

60620
60621
60623
60628
60632
60636
60638
60648
60652

The law, which applies to loans made through mortgage brokers and mortgage bankers and exempts those sourced by conventional banks, is strongly opposed by the mortgage industry.

“We think there’s a good chance that property values will end up suffering and that properties will take longer to sell,” says Bill McNamee, owner of Pinnacle Home Mortgage in Lombard and president-elect of the Illinois Assn. of Mortgage Brokers. “Those are areas that have (home-sales) weakness already.”

Responds a spokeswoman for the department: “Every time there’s a new regulation we get concerns from the industry that it’s too onerous. We don’t think it is.”

The legislation, passed last year at the end of the session, was championed by House Speaker Michael Madigan, whose Southwest Side district is affected.

More than one-third of the mortgages made in the pilot area in 2004 were “high-cost,” defined as interest rates three points higher than the going yields on U.S. Treasury bonds, according to the Woodstock Institute, a Chicago think tank on financial issues affecting low-income people. For Cook County as a whole, 19% of mortgages were high-cost.

Similarly, the pilot area had 19 foreclosures for every 1,000 properties in 2004 compared with 11 for all of Cook County

i always wonder why the original poster doesnt quote the rather short link he wants to send us to.

its a pilot program. that means its a test and if it works it will be expanded. if it doesnt it will be scrapped or revamped.

it is starting with the areas that statistically can benefit most from it. those who routinely are required to pay a higher interest rate for a mortgage than those in other areas do. it applies only to certain types of lenders.

poor people get taken advantage of. various lenders "redline" certain neighborhoods and will never give a borrower there a fair interest rate. its not good for anyone to have people pay mortgage rates that end up forcing them into default

done right, this program can be a huge benefit to people who are being taken advantage of now.

i dont think its "racist" to fight "racist" lending policies.

<snipped for space>
As for the USA. ( Going on in many other countires.. but I live in the US , so I will speak US) -- What does this diversity do, exactly? IMO The government is making it plain as day that blacks cannot exist without the white man, or the white mans money. What the hell good is that doing for black people? Yes, I know it was wrong for the bastards that decided to grab africans as slaves and use them, breed them, split them up, etc. Many terrible things. But what now? We fight like hell when we are together, the known black "culture" in this country is nothing but a bunch of gangsters, thugs killers. Do you think it would be that way if we lived seperatly? I mean think about it. When it's something far away not affecting you, the results are usually a good thing. Just like when people in the US use to think the "so and so" were grand peoples, with much "culture". Let them start living together and thats when the shit starts to fly, they are no longer "culturally rich", they are now a crime and a nuisance. Why the hell do we feel we gotta live on top of each other? It's doing no one any good. The black man says (And I believe it) that they are ruled, trumped, discriminated against etc etc by the white man. Why the hell cant either seperate, give them their land back in africa(taking it from powers that be) give .find them a whoile new land and let them build up their own economy, nation etc. Haiti is out of the question I guess, It's terrible. Somewhere else.

Why is it a must that we all "go to bed together"?

I mean have you ever had a problem with someone/ some people you've never met? (if your answer to this is yes, then you might be a dumbass)
uhhhhhhh

why not force the ancestral homes of WHITE people to take them all back. we can leave the US for black people and native americans. makes as much sense

we must all "go to bed together" because we LIKE IT. we are all americans. the ship of seperation sailed a LONG time ago. its not coming back to port again.

I often find that the big cities where many blacks live tend to be more racist, intentionally or otherwise, than most of the rural areas. Of course, that's barring some of the more nutty areas in certain parts of the South and Maine, but still.

I grew up in rural KY, and there were no black students at my school. I had no black friends. Didn't really interact with any other "races" until I enlisted, and everything I knew about racism up until that point, I saw on TV.

[Edit: that's because there weren't any black people, not because of segregation or any other such nonsense. There are almost no black people in Appalachia.]

Culture shock! Seemed like all the white people were being as politically correct as possible in public, and reinforcing stereotypes in private. And all the black people had a defensive chip on their shoulder, sort of like, "I know you're going to secretly dislike me just because I'm black, so I've decided to beat you to the punch and dislike you first."

And they all, regardless of color, had such weird ideas about Kentucky. I got asked the most ignorant questions: "Did you go to school barefoot?" "Is the grass really blue?" "Are all your teeth real?"

Thank you, Hollywood! :rolleyes:

I’d never heard that before.
Fucking wow. I've always thought that they were the closest thing to Nazi ghettos in America, but that is just incredible.
Here I thought the South was suposed to be racist.:rolleyes:

The south has nothing on Old Man Daley and his Bridgeport thugs. He fought desegregation of schools for a long time too.

Wanna bet that they'll just expand the program to cover all of chicago then?

It won't happen. Chicago has a housing boom right now, real estate is at record highs. Generalizing a law like this to all of Chicago would kill the mortgage market and piss off a lot of yuppies and developers. Its a complicated bit of Chiocago politics, but with the kind of money going to politicians on the north side, theres no way a law like that would ever be applied to gentrified areas.

luckily for us, empircal questions can be addressed by empircal data. so what sources were used in the crafting of this policy?

Faulty. There is a problem with predatory lending in some parts of Chicago. It tends to be in areas where people are poor, because if you are poor you are far more likely to have a bad enough credit history that normal loan companies won't touch you. The problem is, the zipcodes that this plan effects are ALL black. There are pleanty of other poor areas in and around Chicago that aren't being treated this way.

The biggest problem with a law like this is that it is going to drive the legitimate lending companies away. Since the lendor has to shoulder the burden of cost for credit counseling, a lot of the more respectable firms are going to be much more selective in who they'll loan money to (just the people they are sure will pass the tests and not have to go to counseling), which means that all those people who might need the counseling are going to have access to are people who will charge a quarter point below usury.

Well, The Young Emperor needs to find another way to hire cronies since the Hired Truck thing seems to have fallen apart... :rolleyes:

Did ya hear they arrested his brother in law for taking an $8000.00 bribe? Briatta is refusing to cooperate, though. I don't blame him, considering that he comes from a mob family and he was acting as go-between.

i always wonder why the original poster doesnt quote the rather short link he wants to send us to.

its a pilot program. that means its a test and if it works it will be expanded. if it doesnt it will be scrapped or revamped.

it is starting with the areas that statistically can benefit most from it. those who routinely are required to pay a higher interest rate for a mortgage than those in other areas do. it applies only to certain types of lenders.

poor people get taken advantage of. various lenders "redline" certain neighborhoods and will never give a borrower there a fair interest rate. its not good for anyone to have people pay mortgage rates that end up forcing them into default

done right, this program can be a huge benefit to people who are being taken advantage of now.

i dont think its "racist" to fight "racist" lending policies.

Look, I've lived in Chicago my entire life, trust me when I say that a pilot program is never a pilot program. Nothing gets scrapped in Illinois, especially not if it requires government salaries. Further, you might not think it is racist, but I'm betting its because you lack context.

Chicago is still a segregated city. There are black parts of town, white parts of town, spanish parts of town, polish parts of town, south-east asian parts of town, but there are very few areas that are integrated. Not only is Chicago segregated based on race, but also based on class. There are poor white neighborhoods and poor spanish neighborhoods that are every bit as bad off as the poor black neighborhoods. Yet every single one of the nine zip codes is in a poor black neighborhood.

Further, this isn't a law that was passed by Chicago, this came from the Illinois state legislature. There are a lot of areas in Illinois that are poorer than those zip codes, and they have problems with predatory lending, too. Yet none of them are included in the pilot. The pilot seems focused on Chicago. More specifically on black neighborhoods Chicago. The fact that the neighborhoods are poor comes in third on the list of what they have in common.

I would like to see the voting roll to see who voted for and against this bill in the legislature. Do you have the bill #?

Throughout my whole life I have only seen one white human being commit a crime. However I have seen at least 7 occurances in which hispanics commited a crime and more than 10 occurances in which black people have commited a crime(most of these crimes were commited against white people) Most of you white liberals who see something wrong with that bill live in perfect little sheltered white communities and have never interacted with colored minorities who came from the ghetto. Most of them have a strong hate for "whitey"

If you feel that bill isnt fair then please move to an all black ghetto and see how fairly you are treated.

I feel this bill is tiny step in the right direction.

Throughout my whole life I have only seen one white human being commit a crime. However I have seen at least 7 occurances in which hispanics commited a crime and more than 10 occurances in which black people have commited a crime(most of these crimes were commited against white people) Most of you white liberals who see something wrong with that bill live in perfect little sheltered white communities and have never interacted with colored minorities who came from the ghetto. Most of them have a strong hate for "whitey"

If you feel that bill isnt fair then please move to an all black ghetto and see how fairly you are treated.

I feel this bill is tiny step in the right direction.
You would.

However, I think you have a little perception problem. I'm Libertarian/Conservative and think this is abhorent - BECAUSE is is a typical Liberal attempt to "protect" (at my expense) people who they don't believe are capable of protecting themselves.

Clue. You. Get one.

Maybe they actually *are* that stupid. Why else would they be having problems and therefore come up with a solution? They're bored? Highly doubt it. They get complaints up the arse about houses in terrible condition. They ask these people.. hey, why wasn't it inspected? The people throw their hands in the air and tell you to fix it. Funk dat. Make it mandatory, save lotsa time and money. Fixed.

Throughout my whole life I have only seen one white human being commit a crime. However I have seen at least 7 occurances in which hispanics commited a crime and more than 10 occurances in which black people have commited a crime(most of these crimes were commited against white people) Most of you white liberals who see something wrong with that bill live in perfect little sheltered white communities and have never interacted with colored minorities who came from the ghetto. Most of them have a strong hate for "whitey"

If you feel that bill isnt fair then please move to an all black ghetto and see how fairly you are treated.

I feel this bill is tiny step in the right direction.
In my whole life, I have never personally witnessed a blue-eye person committing a crime. I have, however, been present during several occasions in which a brown-eyed or green-eyed person committed a crime. Most interestingly of all, the most criminally-minded human I have ever personally encountered had one brown eye and one green eye.

There are some foolish liberals who believe that eye color does not carry with it an innate tendency toward criminal behavior, but I think my personal annecdotal evidence puts them in their place. Clearly all green- and brown-eyed people should be treated differently because they are, by nature, more criminal than blue-eyed people.

Oh, and the fact that I happen to have blue eyes doesn't have the slightest bit of relavence to what I'm saying. None whatsoever.

Most of you white liberals who see something wrong with that bill live in perfect little sheltered white communities and have never interacted with colored minorities who came from the ghetto. Most of them have a strong hate for "whitey" I feel this bill is tiny step in the right direction.

TOTALLY AGREE.

Ahem. Ladies and gentlement, please do not feed the trolls. I know, it can be tempting, I know you get a moment's satisfaction from responding, but all you do is let them know you care. If you engage them they will sit like a stone and continue to vomit talking points designed to make your blood boil. Ignore them, the'll get bored, and they'll move on.

Marcus Cole of Stanford Law hits the nail on the head here:

OMG!!! Statesman! :eek:

OMG!!! Statesman! :eek:


???

???


^ a lame attempt at bumping your own thread :rolleyes:

???

http://www.gamerscircle.net/images1/statesman_armcross.gif

This guy. His name is Marcus Cole aka, Statesman.

http://www.gamerscircle.net/images1/statesman_armcross.gif

This guy. His name is Marcus Cole aka, Statesman.


Ahh, lol. I hadn't understood the reference. Thanks for clearing it up.

You would.

However, I think you have a little perception problem. I'm Libertarian/Conservative and think this is abhorent - BECAUSE is is a typical Liberal attempt to "protect" (at my expense) people who they don't believe are capable of protecting themselves.

Clue. You. Get one.

Quite true.:)

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that this is happening in Chicago, which is well known as a racist and elitist city. In Chicago it's bad to be black, worse to be poor, worst of all to be poor and black -- unless you count poor, black, gay and female. What do you think makes Oprah Winfrey such a hero to so many?

I'm from NYC originally, and our racism is nothing compared to Chicago's. At least in NY it's a level playing field of mutual hatred where everyone can get their licks in. Now I live in Boston, which could almost have equalled Chicago except that in its glory days, Boston only had two races -- black and Irish -- and two classes -- dirt poor and Heinz fortune. Not as much to work with as the City of the Big Shoulders. Nowadays, Boston is getting a ton of new immigrants who are scrambling all the demographics, and racism is fading a tad, mostly I think because the local racists don't know whom to hit first.

But as bad as these cities are, at least they're not Houston where, I hear, they round up all the homeless in the middle of the night and drive them out of the city and dump them so that suburban commuters won't have to see them on their way to work. By the time they walk back, the commuters have gone home again. But maybe that's just a rumor. I read it in Time magazine several years ago. And as for blacks? Well, it IS Texas...