NationStates Jolt Archive

So I just joined the Canadian forces just last month. So I am pretty happy to know that my nation's special forces can beat up on the Rangers and the British Special Forces,

and that we have the best communication equip in the world.

So yeah. :)

hmm canadian and special forces seems oxymoronic to me.. kind of like France and intelligent

I used to be in the U.S. Navy. My military service helped to craft me into the person I am today. :)

How's that for a recommendation? :p

So what major achievments have your Canadien Special Forces done that makes you think they are better than the US Rangers, or SAS?
I'm goin into the army as soon as i leave university.

duh everyone knows that Canada has the best army:rolleyes: :mp5: :sniper: :p

So what major achievments have your Canadien Special Forces done that makes you think they are better than the US Rangers, or SAS?
For example they have the longest-distance sniper kill ever recorded. But don't forget the KSK. They've been putting a lot of money into equipment and training, and a careful estimate on my part would be that they could mix it with the best.
Or at least I haven't heard any complaints yet.

I'm goin into the army as soon as i leave university.
A waste of education, don't you think? Wouldn't it have been better to first go into the army, get the money and so on and then, later, go to uni?

So I just joined the Canadian forces just last month. So I am pretty happy to know that my nation's special forces can beat up on the Rangers and the British Special Forces, and that we have the best communication equip in the world.

Canada? Never heard of the place.

I think it is the Northern neighbor to America. The one no one remembers. ;)

Delta Force for the win.

Pfft. Anybody that has been in the military is even less respected by me than they normally would be. It's like they're on welfare, only they get to shoot people legally.

So I just joined the Canadian forces just last month. So I am pretty happy to know that my nation's special forces can beat up on the Rangers and the British Special Forces,

and that we have the best communication equip in the world.

So yeah. :)


Yeeaah, I'm reeaal suure that yer Caanaadiaan foorces are mooore thaan a maatch for the Briitish Guurkas and oouur Deeltaa foorce!

Pfft. Anybody that has been in the military is even less respected by me than they normally would be. It's like they're on welfare, only they get to shoot people legally.

Ignore the troll...

Ignore the troll...
Troll implies someone saying something they don't really believe just to get a rise of someone.

As far as I know from all his other arguments he really believes the tripe he spews

Yeeaah, I'm reeaal suure that yer Caanaadiaan foorces are mooore thaan a maatch for the Briitish Guurkas and oouur Deeltaa foorce!
It's possible. Precisely because Canada doesn't waste much funds on various operations with normal troops, it can concentrate a lot more on its special forces, if they're in use all the time.
On a special forces level, it comes down to the people themselves, and then it's possible that even the Angolan Special Forces might be the best in the world (excluding the idea that Angola might not be spending much on their training...:p )

Woaa woaaa woaaa Canada has a military? haha jk good to see you got your gene's from the brits and not the Frogs.

Yeeaah, I'm reeaal suure that yer Caanaadiaan foorces are mooore thaan a maatch for the Briitish Guurkas and oouur Deeltaa foorce!

Actually, due to recent observations Canada has been found to have trained the best snipers in the world, as well as Canada is a strong training center for US military agents, both in the past and now.

Not to mention Camp X, the camp for spies, which might sound like a myth, but it actually was a real spy training camp during World War II.

So, as much as I disagree with alot of people, I do agree with Norse country: Canada's military and communications in the Special Forces sector are amazing.

Actually, before the rather deep budget cuts in the 90s, the Canadian Airborne Regiment, which was officially classified as airborne commando, regularyly went up against US special forces and rangers in exercises and beat them on a regular basis, at least as many times as they lost to them. Since the early 90s, though, we haven't had a lot of money for those kinds of exercises and when we did, our troops were on deployment, so its hard to say now exactly where things stand, as we haven't had many US-Can competitions at that scale of unit/formation.

The SAS, though, that's another matter, as indeed is the entire British Army. As much as national and professional pride urges me otherwise, I'd have to say that the British soldier is at the top, bar none. How close the gap is between them and the rest of us, that's up for debate, but it has long been acknowledged that the Brits reign supreme in terms of troop quality.

EDIT: The source of the assertion that the French don't know how fight puzzles me. As a student of military history, I know that the French were in the premier league in terms of military capability right up until WWII. Surely that abberration cannot be the source of the fiction that the French don't know how to fight? If it is, it displays a sad lack of knowledge. The notion that the French are incapable of fighting is a complete myth. What happened to France in WWII almost happened to the British as well, only the Brits had the Channel to regroup behind; one cannot overstate the effect the horrendous, massive losses the French suffered during the Great War had on the nation as a whole, and it was that catastrophic experience that led directly to the French collapse in WWII and this myth of French military incompetence.

Actually, before the rather deep budget cuts in the 90s, the Canadian Airborne Regiment, which was officially classified as airborne commando, regularyly went up against US special forces and rangers in exercises and beat them on a regular basis, at least as many times as they lost to them. Since the early 90s, though, we haven't had a lot of money for those kinds of exercises and when we did, our troops were on deployment, so its hard to say now exactly where things stand, as we haven't had many US-Can competitions at that scale of unit/formation.

The SAS, though, that's another matter, as indeed is the entire British Army. As much as national and professional pride urges me otherwise, I'd have to say that the British soldier is at the top, bar none. How close the gap is between them and the rest of us, that's up for debate, but it has long been acknowledged that the Brits reign supreme in terms of troop quality.



As wise man Peter Griffon one said " we kicked your asses in world war 2 and we can do it again" hahaha

As wise man Peter Griffon one said " we kicked your asses in world war 2 and we can do it again" hahaha

And the Canadians broke through the lines in World War I when everybody was too scared to do it.

I'm in the US Army.

Well if it came to it, even with their spec ops, the Americans still way outnumber the Canadians. It'd be like America trying to take on China.

Hey any here see that article a couple days back on MSN where the Canadian Prime Minister was claiming the Artic Ocean as Canadian territory and telling the US they had to get special Canadian permission to send subs to the north pole?
He was having the military put listening devices on the floor of the artic passageways and he was ordering a lot of new navy ships and stuff.

As wise man Peter Griffon one said " we kicked your asses in world war 2 and we can do it again" hahaha

Exactly. And in the majority of exercises between US and Canadian forces, it has been the Canadians who have come out on top more often than not.

MIDN 4/C, in NROTC. I want to be a submariner.

I'm in the US Army.

Well if it came to it, even with their spec ops, the Americans still way outnumber the Canadians. It'd be like America trying to take on China.

Hey any here see that article a couple days back on MSN where the Canadian Prime Minister was claiming the Artic Ocean as Canadian territory and telling the US they had to get special Canadian permission to send subs to the north pole?
He was having the military put listening devices on the floor of the artic passageways and he was ordering a lot of new navy ships and stuff.
Listening devices won't do you jack shit against our subs. They have to be heard to make noise. It's not like Canada has a good navy anyways. Their subs tend to catch fire.

I will say their Spec Forces aren't bad.

...
A waste of education, don't you think? Wouldn't it have been better to first go into the army, get the money and so on and then, later, go to uni?

I would assume from his statement of school before military that he would be going in as an officer. Unlike you and I, both being ex-enlisted squids, I'd assume that his experience will be different than ours was? ;)

As to the OP, good luck, have fun. As to the Canadian bragging, I can't for the life of me imagine why a squad size group of soldiers can't be an excellent group regardless of where they come from, but it's that company size and larger fighting that makes all the difference in keeping the territory after a battle instead of just hitting and running missions. Then you want marines, special forces need an audience to perform well. :p

I'm in the US Army.

Well if it came to it, even with their spec ops, the Americans still way outnumber the Canadians. It'd be like America trying to take on China.

Hey any here see that article a couple days back on MSN where the Canadian Prime Minister was claiming the Artic Ocean as Canadian territory and telling the US they had to get special Canadian permission to send subs to the north pole?
He was having the military put listening devices on the floor of the artic passageways and he was ordering a lot of new navy ships and stuff.

This is a decades-old dispute between Canada and the US. When the Northwest Passage was frozen solid, it was one of those things that wasn't really that serious, but with the opening up of the Passage in recent years, concern has been growing over the consequences of having the Passage become a major shipping route (responsibility to clean up oil spills, provide rescue services, etc), not to mention the potential for resources on the ocean floor. The problem is that while the idea is appealing to many Canadians, actually following through would require Canada to violate treaties governing the Law of the Sea. That, and the huge cost of those measures, puts a question mark over the entire affair.

An interesting way of looking at the issue is if it was the US that was in Canada's position with regards to the Northwest Passage, would the US be esposuing the freedom of the sea, or would the US be doing exactly what Canada is, and advocating for control over the Passage (which runs between Canada's Arctic islands)? It's doubtful Canada will win the argument, as there are too many serious implications for freedom of navigation elsewhere in the world, and Canadian politicians know this. Whether or not they can educate the masses, that's another story.

I want to be a submariner.
Pffft. Panzergrenadiers all the way for me. Or maybe Panzerartillerie.

I like my feet on the ground, and I'd rather not drown, or crash.

Pffft. Panzergrenadiers all the way for me. Or maybe Panzerartillerie.

I like my feet on the ground, and I'd rather not drown, or crash.

Plus only in the navy do you go down in a submarine with 66 men and come up w/33 couples.

Listening devices won't do you jack shit against our subs. They have to be heard to make noise. It's not like Canada has a good navy anyways. Their subs tend to catch fire.

I will say their Spec Forces aren't bad.

The Canadian Patrol Frigate is among the most advanced class of warships in service at the moment and is a dedicated ASW platform. The Canadian Navy has made it a habit out of detecting US submarines (where the US has always insisted they couldn't be) for decades.

Exactly. And in the majority of exercises between US and Canadian forces, it has been the Canadians who have come out on top more often than not.


It was a joke. Have you never watched family guy?

I would assume from his statement of school before military that he would be going in as an officer. Unlike you and I, both being ex-enlisted squids, I'd assume that his experience will be different than ours was? ;)

As to the OP, good luck, have fun. As to the Canadian bragging, I can't for the life of me imagine why a squad size group of soldiers can't be an excellent group regardless of where they come from, but it's that company size and larger fighting that makes all the difference in keeping the territory after a battle instead of just hitting and running missions. Then you want marines, special forces need an audience to perform well. :p

Then to your logic China has a better military than the US.

You can't mess with the German Mounain Infantry...

I would assume from his statement of school before military that he would be going in as an officer. Unlike you and I, both being ex-enlisted squids, I'd assume that his experience will be different than ours was? ;)

As to the OP, good luck, have fun. As to the Canadian bragging, I can't for the life of me imagine why a squad size group of soldiers can't be an excellent group regardless of where they come from, but it's that company size and larger fighting that makes all the difference in keeping the territory after a battle instead of just hitting and running missions. Then you want marines, special forces need an audience to perform well. :p

A good deal of the time when Canadian and US brigades have gone head-to-head, it's been the Canadian unit that has come out on top. To be fair, that may have as much to do with the benefits of having a small army vs a large one, but my own personal experience, and granted, this is now a decade old, is that the average Canadian solder is far better trained than his US counterpart.

The Canadian Patrol Frigate is among the most advanced class of warships in service at the moment and is a dedicated ASW platform. The Canadian Navy has made it a habit out of detecting US submarines (where the US has always insisted they couldn't be) for decades.

The Halifax Class frigates are due for their mid-life upgrades soon, but will it be funded? Probably, if the Conservatives remain in power.

Plus only in the navy do you go down in a submarine with 66 men and come up w/33 couples.
I've heard that joke from my aviator and marine buddies so much it has lost all meaning.

It was a joke. Have you never watched family guy?

If it was a joke, then you weren't entirely successful in communicating that. As for The Family Guy, watched it some, didn't like it all that much, but it certainly does have its moments :)

Pffft. Panzergrenadiers all the way for me. Or maybe Panzerartillerie.

I like my feet on the ground, and I'd rather not drown, or crash.

Panzergrenadiers? Panzerartillerie? Are you serious? In my time at the German Army i NEVER met an competent Grenadier or artillerist...

The Halifax Class frigates are due for their mid-life upgrades soon, but will it be funded? Probably, if the Conservatives remain in power.

One can only hope, but I've heard talk about massive infusions of cash and kit many times before. I'll believe it when I see it :)

EDIT: The source of the assertion that the French don't know how fight puzzles me. As a student of military history, I know that the French were in the premier league in terms of military capability right up until WWII. Surely that abberration cannot be the source of the fiction that the French don't know how to fight? If it is, it displays a sad lack of knowledge. The notion that the French are incapable of fighting is a complete myth. What happened to France in WWII almost happened to the British as well, only the Brits had the Channel to regroup behind; one cannot overstate the effect the horrendous, massive losses the French suffered during the Great War had on the nation as a whole, and it was that catastrophic experience that led directly to the French collapse in WWII and this myth of French military incompetence.

I must agree. While it might be a joke, if people are taking it seriously they are extremely ignorant of military. The british were in fact the ones who thought that French should have moved her armies to Belgium, under the idea of the fact that 'history repeats itself'. Sadly, Hitler was smart enough to remember this and raced across into Southern France instead of fighting a whole French force in Belgium. And even then, the French had a major contribution in the resistance during World War 2.

Without the resistance, it would be highly unlikely that anybody could have stopped the German Warmachine (while most might say the Russians, remember that as commendably brave the Russians were, the Germans were fighting on two fronts).

I must agree. While it might be a joke, if people are taking it seriously they are extremely ignorant of military. The british were in fact the ones who thought that French should have moved her armies to Belgium, under the idea of the fact that 'history repeats itself'. Sadly, Hitler was smart enough to remember this and raced across into Southern France instead of fighting a whole French force in Belgium. And even then, the French had a major contribution in the resistance during World War 2.

Without the resistance, it would be highly unlikely that anybody could have stopped the German Warmachine (while most might say the Russians, remember that as commendably brave the Russians were, the Germans were fighting on two fronts).

French were good warriors up till the Prussian-Franco war of the 1870's after that they steadily declined (But who wouldn't after losing so many generations of good hard leadership).

French were good warriors up till the Prussian-Franco war of the 1870's after that they steadily declined (But who wouldn't after losing so many generations of good hard leadership).
I'don't think so. If this would be true, Resistance would have never been so succesfull. Remember, without the Resistance, Operation Overlord would have been a total loss for the Allied forces. Recon was taken over by the members of the different resistance groups. I just mention the Battery of Merville. The Allied forces didn't know, that existed, when they claimed the Beaches for landing. In the end, the Cannons of the battery weren'T a Danger for Juno-Beach, but they found that out, AFTER the landing.

Panzergrenadiers? Panzerartillerie? Are you serious? In my time at the German Army i NEVER met an competent Grenadier or artillerist...
Well, if I join, I'd plan to change that. :D

I'd like to drive a tank, but I think I'm too tall for it (and I have my doubts whether they let conscripts near those things anyways).

French were good warriors up till the Prussian-Franco war of the 1870's after that they steadily declined (But who wouldn't after losing so many generations of good hard leadership).

Actually, they were smart. Instead of losing immense casualties, they feigned defeat, and created a resistance, killing an enemy from the inside. While they could have been seen as 'terrorists' and sneaky, but remember that while bravery is commendable, there is no gain in suicide.

Yeah, I've always blamed the death of the outstanding leaders.

I dont think there is much of a point to saying which one is better, I think both nations SF could accomplish their respective goals.

Well, if I join, I'd plan to change that. :D

I'd like to drive a tank, but I think I'm too tall for it (and I have my doubts whether they let conscripts near those things anyways).

Before a Panzergrenadier will be an serious opponent, there will a protestant become pope. There are so many units, in which the soldier is REALLY a soldier. Airborne,Infantry, Mountain-Infantry or Engeneers...

Actually, they were smart. Instead of losing immense casualties, they feigned defeat, and created a resistance, killing an enemy from the inside. While they could have been seen as 'terrorists' and sneaky, but remember that while bravery is commendable, there is no gain in suicide.

But it still is kinda sad that the Poles held out for longer, especially when you consider that they used Cavalry against Panzers.

Actually, they were smart. Instead of losing immense casualties, they feigned defeat, and created a resistance, killing an enemy from the inside. While they could have been seen as 'terrorists' and sneaky, but remember that while bravery is commendable, there is no gain in suicide.


The resistance though would never have been enough to defeat germany. Also note that the resistance was in the minority, like I said generations of lost brave souls.

But it still is kinda sad that the Poles held out for longer, especially when you consider that they used Cavalry against Panzers.
What?

No... just.... no.

But it still is kinda sad that the Poles held out for longer, especially when you consider that they used Cavalry against Panzers.
That was an isolated incident, and they didn't really hold out longer. Militarically, the Polish were defeated very early. They just waited with the surrender because they had for some reason the idea they had Allies who were supposed to help them...

Suffice to say that Warsaw saw what happened if you didn't give up. Understandable that the French didn't want the same to happen to Paris.

But it still is kinda sad that the Poles held out for longer, especially when you consider that they used Cavalry against Panzers.


The Poles held out longer because they weren't facing the same Wehrmacht the French were. The army that crossed the French frontier had used the Polish campaign to iron out new tactics and doctrine, not to mention the fact that it had increased in size as well. Also, for the record, the French did hold out longer. The Polish campaign lasted 6 weeks, the French lasted at least 8, IIRC.

EDIT: Also, while the Poles did employ cavalry, it was not of the medieval/Napoleonic type of unit. The cavalry of the time was really mounted infantry, and fought as such. Think of them more as infantry whose trucks needed to graze and pooped a lot instead of gobbling fuel and putting out exhaust :)

Before a Panzergrenadier will be an serious opponent, there will a protestant become pope. There are so many units, in which the soldier is REALLY a soldier. Airborne,Infantry, Mountain-Infantry or Engeneers...
:rolleyes:

Yeah, I've always blamed the death of the outstanding leaders.

I dont think there is much of a point to saying which one is better, I think both nations SF could accomplish their respective goals.

As it's a matter of a very thin margin, I'd agree; it's a bit like trying to decide in which demoninations to take your lottery winnings in, 10s or 20s :)

:rolleyes:
I can tell that from my own experience. We once had a contest against other battailions, including one Panzergrenadierbattaillion. One of the Disciplines was a march over 30km. Our backpack had twice the weight of theirs and its a understatement, that we kicked their ass. In the other disciplies the result was similar.

I can tell that from my own experience. We once had a contest against other battailions, including one Panzergrenadierbattaillion. One of the Disciplines was a march over 30km. Our backpack had twice the weight of theirs and its a understatement, that we kicked their ass. In the other disciplies the result was similar.
Could it be that your job is to walk up mountains, and theirs is to sit in the back of a vehicle and protect armoured divisions if necessary?

Could it be that your job is to walk up mountains, and theirs is to sit in the back of a vehicle and protect armoured divisions if necessary?
If you think so, then you know nothing about us. Sure, we walk up mountains. But we're able to fight under nearly any circumstances, too. And protecting armoured divisions is the job of EVERY Infantrist. In the modern army you're always with other units.

This is a decades-old dispute between Canada and the US. When the Northwest Passage was frozen solid, it was one of those things that wasn't really that serious, but with the opening up of the Passage in recent years, concern has been growing over the consequences of having the Passage become a major shipping route (responsibility to clean up oil spills, provide rescue services, etc), not to mention the potential for resources on the ocean floor. The problem is that while the idea is appealing to many Canadians, actually following through would require Canada to violate treaties governing the Law of the Sea. That, and the huge cost of those measures, puts a question mark over the entire affair.

An interesting way of looking at the issue is if it was the US that was in Canada's position with regards to the Northwest Passage, would the US be esposuing the freedom of the sea, or would the US be doing exactly what Canada is, and advocating for control over the Passage (which runs between Canada's Arctic islands)? It's doubtful Canada will win the argument, as there are too many serious implications for freedom of navigation elsewhere in the world, and Canadian politicians know this. Whether or not they can educate the masses, that's another story.
I would think they would have the right to declare an economic exclusion zone as regards the resources. Heck the British have laid claim to almost the entire of the north east atlantic all the way up to a few miles off the coast of Iceland. Remember the little war between Britain and Iceland over who could claim the area as an exclusion zone a few years back? When they had their little patrol boats shooting at each other.

If you think so, then you know nothing about us. Sure, we walk up mountains. But we're able to fight under nearly any circumstances, too. And protecting armoured divisions is the job of EVERY Infantrist. In the modern army you're always with other units.
Hmmm, well, I'll see if I have to get back (I'm in Oz right now, and unless financial reasons force my family back, I'll be here for some time yet).

I just like big vehicles, and wouldn't want to just walk all the time. That's the primary reason why I'd want to go to something armoured.

Hey Buttenhausen can you explain to me what all is involved in getting the German Infantry badge. Supposedly my commander found some German Liason and he's going to put the whole company through it. I kinda want to see an idea of what it entails BEFORE I show up.


Oh, yeah I'm in the Army, I'm an MP, I'm a SPEC-4. Tactical stuff is fun, but right now i'm doing boring Garrison duty which is more or less like being an average Cop.

I haven't gone over to the Box yet, I'm scheduled to go in 2007 and as far as infantry stuff goes, it may be cool. But I sure do prefer riding around in Up-armored Humvees to walking. And that MK-19, M-240B, M-2 and M-249 are ALL fun to shoot.


Military Police, pound for pound the most heavily armed unit in the army.

One team(Team Leader, Driver, Gunner) has, 1 M-249, 1 MK-19, 2 M-4's, 1 M203, 6 AT-4's, 12 Claymores, 3 M-9's, and however many Frag Grenades we want to carry. That is the standard Military Police UpArmored Humvee load.

I will be joining the RAF as a Pilot after Uni (2 and a half years time, yay!!).

In a completely unbiased view, the British Army/Airforce/Navy and Special Forces are the best in the world :D

The RAF actually sent us on courses basically to learn why this was the case...all propaganda but it was funny. I do believe though that the SAS is the best Special Forces in the world. The Red Arrows are the best fast jet aerobatic display team in the world...such cool guys! Our Navy has dwindled in recent years, but of course under Blair it is being restocked with 6 new state of the art destroyers and 2 new supercarriers which will be bigger than USS Enterprise :D In fact D35 Destroyer (first of the new destroyers by BAe Systems) was launched into the River Clyde (Scotland) this week!

Graham

Hey Buttenhausen can you explain to me what all is involved in getting the German Infantry badge. Supposedly my commander found some German Liason and he's going to put the whole company through it. I kinda want to see an idea of what it entails BEFORE I show up.
http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/2ndbde/gafb4mp.htm
People say that it doesn't sound difficult, but apparently not that many people make it through. Maybe they're not trying hard enough.

I'm in the US Army.

Well if it came to it, even with their spec ops, the Americans still way outnumber the Canadians. It'd be like America trying to take on China.

Hey any here see that article a couple days back on MSN where the Canadian Prime Minister was claiming the Artic Ocean as Canadian territory and telling the US they had to get special Canadian permission to send subs to the north pole?
He was having the military put listening devices on the floor of the artic passageways and he was ordering a lot of new navy ships and stuff.

Well, I will have to see if Harper backs up his claims even though I don't think it would do squat.

However, being in communications I get to listen to all the communications coming off the pacific its great.

So in Afghanistan it is the Canadian Special forces snipering of the Taliban. And we have some pretty cool communication equipment here.

The Road march is probably the Killer, the longest i've gone for a Road march was 15K, but i think i could handle that. 10KG ruck isn't that heavy, usually i'm closer to 20KG when i ruck. So if i spend most of the time running, which is what I do on road marches for time anyway. I've just got these long legs that are built for road marching.


Marksmanship shouldn't be hard. I have to qualify with the 9mm all the time anyway.



200m swim won't be bad, you've got 6 minutes? shit, i used to do 100m swims in like 1:20-1:30(with an all time best of 1:07)


I don't know about the dash, i'm not that good of a sprinter but i think i'll be able to do it


I'd probably try the long jump, i don't have much in the way of ups. I don't know what i'll get there, i've never tried.

I'd do the 100meter swim instead of the Shot Put.

And i'd go for the 1000 Meter Swim. I think i can pull that off.


I'd probably get a Silver.

It's possible. Precisely because Canada doesn't waste much funds on various operations with normal troops, it can concentrate a lot more on its special forces, if they're in use all the time.
On a special forces level, it comes down to the people themselves, and then it's possible that even the Angolan Special Forces might be the best in the world (excluding the idea that Angola might not be spending much on their training...:p )

You are saying that Canadians are getter than Ghurkas? Better than Delta Force?

My god that is so wrong I have no idea where to begin.

The Road march is probably the Killer, the longest i've gone for a Road march was 15K, but i think i could handle that...
Yeah, the German Army does like its marches. It's a cheap way to occupy soldiers for a few hours.

I suppose you don't speak German, but there is a funny site out there for potential conscripts that explains how the Bundeswehr works.
http://www.aganauten.de/

You are saying that Canadians are getter than Ghurkas? Better than Delta Force?

My god that is so wrong I have no idea where to begin.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is what is taking place in Afghanistan.

Yeah, the German Army does like its marches. It's a cheap way to occupy soldiers for a few hours.

I suppose you don't speak German, but there is a funny site out there for potential conscripts that explains how the Bundeswehr works.
http://www.aganauten.de/

I speak a little German, I had a couple of years of High School german and a Semester of College. So I sorta understand stuff.


Like conjugating Haben, yup I can do that.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is what is taking place in Afghanistan.

I'd like to see a link to back up your facts.

Quick search:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/jtf2.html

I'd like to see a link to back up your facts.

The longest recorded kill is by a Canadian Sniper in Afganistan.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that Canadian Commando's are any better than SF, Delta, Rangers, Royal Marine Commando's SAS(who i consider THE BEST), etc.


show some links on how their performance and standard of training is better.

2 miles wasn't it?

Wait a second... the Canadians fight in Afghanistan and Iraq? Funny how that is.

I still know for a fact the Gurkhas are easily the most badass.
http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Ghurka/Project2/M40-Combat-Khukri.jpg
I sure as hell would never fuck with one.

Quick search:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/jtf2.html

and if that article hasn't Misrepresentation of what happened at the battle for Bakala Market.


That article sounded a little biased.

2 miles wasn't it?

Wait a second... the Canadians fight in Afghanistan and Iraq? Funny how that is.

I still know for a fact the Gurkhas are easily the most badass.
http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Ghurka/Project2/M40-Combat-Khukri.jpg
I sure as hell would never fuck with one.


actually, it was something like 2200-2500 meters which is under two miles.

duh everyone knows that Canada has the best army:rolleyes: :mp5: :sniper: :pWell Canada got the best trained soldiers here, better than the Americans. The problem with the Canadian military is that the equipments are very sub par. Take the leaky British submarines and broken down Sea Kings for example.

Last year I entered the delayed entry program for the American Navy. On June 26 I'll be leaving for the navy. I'm excited but a little more nervous. I joined because I want to serve my country. I love America the culture, what it represents, and the people. Not a big fan of the goverment. And the navy's paying for all of my college education. So I won't have to pay off student loans for ten years.

I know for a fact you have to run a mile, then stop and do pt, run a mile stop and do pt, until you have completed around about 10 to 13 miles.

And hat is the first phase of training.

It serious stuff, and because they are so secretive, I haven't met one personally but you wouldn't want to mess with him or her.

Well Canada got the best trained soldiers here, better than the Americans. The problem with the Canadian military is that the equipments are very sub par. Take the leaky British submarines and broken down Sea Kings for example.


Maybe better trained pre-and during Iraq invasion, but Institutional Combat Experience is going to raise the quality of soldiers throughout the military.

Seriously, it's not like it's possible to tell who is better. They all use pretty much the same methods for training, they are all very, very good, and much of what they do is secret.

I like the KSK though because nothing they do ever comes out. Not even the Chancellor knows at any time where they are and what they do. And because I'm biased of course.

http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/ksk.htm

Im just waiting to be formally inducted into the Queens York Rangers (Canadian military) :mp5:

Then to your logic China has a better military than the US.

Nah, I didn't say bigger was better, I said that for larger battles the practice of larger groups, like company and divisions etc.,, with thousands of troops aiming at winning and keeping territory is what I was talking about. I haven't seen the Chinese forces in concentrated deployment so I don't have an opinion on that.

I have seen the Americans put thousands of troops in motion before though and they do it very well.

Im just waiting to be formally inducted into the Queens York Rangers (Canadian military)

Cool, good for you. :)

A good deal of the time when Canadian and US brigades have gone head-to-head, it's been the Canadian unit that has come out on top. To be fair, that may have as much to do with the benefits of having a small army vs a large one, but my own personal experience, and granted, this is now a decade old, is that the average Canadian solder is far better trained than his US counterpart.


Could be, my experiences may be growing out of date as well. However, I do think I said marines though, and they kick the crap out of our own soldiers in war games 9 out of 10 times, and that's what I was talking about.

You guys are trying to figure out which SF/Commando unit is the best? Do you mean the most technologically advanced or the most physically and mentally strong?

Personally, I think that western elite units (Delta Force, SAS, KSK etc.) as well as Spetsnaz to some degree are the best when it comes to state-of-the-art equipment. But when it comes to physical and mental discipline, those things that really distinguishes the model soldier from the rest, then I think more unknown units like North Korean and Chinese Special Forces are the better.

The North Koreans may not have GPRS phones or the latest gunship, but they train harder than anyone can imagine. I have seen movies and read accounts of recruits that smash bricks with their heads, endure concrete being smashed over their foreheads, practise tae kwon do all day long on mountain slopes and duck in front of their comrades when they throw knives at each other. Saw a documentary on British TV about a bodyguard who defected to the South.

Could be, my experiences may be growing out of date as well. However, I do think I said marines though, and they kick the crap out of our own soldiers in war games 9 out of 10 times, and that's what I was talking about.

These contests though were your Rangers against the Canadian Special Forces.

I like the Canadian's uniforms. Much cooler than American soldiers.

You guys are trying to figure out which SF/Commando unit is the best? Do you mean the most technologically advanced or the most physically and mentally strong?

Personally, I think that western elite units (Delta Force, SAS, KSK etc.) as well as Spetsnaz to some degree are the best when it comes to state-of-the-art equipment. But when it comes to physical and mental discipline, those things that really distinguishes the model soldier from the rest, then I think more unknown units like North Korean and Chinese Special Forces are the better.

The North Koreans may not have GPRS phones or the latest gunship, but they train harder than anyone can imagine. I have seen movies and read accounts of recruits that smash bricks with their heads, endure concrete being smashed over their foreheads, practise tae kwon do all day long on mountain slopes and duck in front of their comrades when they throw knives at each other. Saw a documentary on British TV about a bodyguard who defected to the South.

Good, but i am saying that Canadian special forces are better than the Americans.

I like the Canadian's uniforms. Much cooler than American soldiers

In Afghanistan, the Canadians have the same.

I would have to disagree. I think American Special Forces are better. We have Navy SEALS, Delta Force, Army Rangers, and I bet there might be groups out there more secret and covert than Delta Force for all I know.

Well the Canadian special forces have already kicked the American special forces in all these competitions, and are the ones in Afghanistan doing all the little sniping and stuff.

Well the Canadian special forces have already kicked the American special forces in all these competitions, and are the ones in Afghanistan doing all the little sniping and stuff.

If your Canadians are as elite as you claim them to be, then someone please tell me why the hell these "Best of the best" aren't kicking ass in Iraq.

I used to be in the U.S. Navy. My military service helped to craft me into the person I am today. :)

How's that for a recommendation? :p

Ahhhhh Navy >_< I feel your pain I still have 5 years on my navy enlistment. AHHHHH 5 Years I don't wanna be a glorified janitor anymore.

i am in the united states marine corps oorahh and we will kick canda ass

I would think they would have the right to declare an economic exclusion zone as regards the resources. Heck the British have laid claim to almost the entire of the north east atlantic all the way up to a few miles off the coast of Iceland. Remember the little war between Britain and Iceland over who could claim the area as an exclusion zone a few years back? When they had their little patrol boats shooting at each other.


The problem is that there is an international treay regarding freedom of navigation which specifically excludes straits that are also major international shipping routes, or some such; I forget the exact wording, but the gist is that the NW Passage falls into that catagory.

You are saying that Canadians are getter than Ghurkas? Better than Delta Force?

My god that is so wrong I have no idea where to begin.

Better than the Ghurkas? No. Delta Force; I don't have any info on that, I only know we ran up a fairly good score against the Green Berets.

If your Canadians are as elite as you claim them to be, then someone please tell me why the hell these "Best of the best" aren't kicking ass in Iraq.


For one very simple reason; Canada does not consider Iraq to be anything other than an American misadventure. Had a proven link existed between Iraq and Sept 11, or had the US used a reason other than the silly WMD arguement, things might have been different.

Could be, my experiences may be growing out of date as well. However, I do think I said marines though, and they kick the crap out of our own soldiers in war games 9 out of 10 times, and that's what I was talking about.


I wasn't talking about the USMC, though. I would expect Marines to perform better, since they're basically the seaborne version of airborne (i.e. assault troops).

I wasn't talking about the USMC, though. I would expect Marines to perform better, since they're basically the seaborne version of airborne (i.e. assault troops).


How would your assault troops do up against the boys from 82nd Airborne Division or 173 Airborne Brigade?

For one very simple reason; Canada does not consider Iraq to be anything other than an American misadventure. Had a proven link existed between Iraq and Sept 11, or had the US used a reason other than the silly WMD arguement, things might have been different.
Either that or Canada doesn't like to lose soldiers to the stupidity of the US Air Force...
Look people moving bomb them...what they were Canadians?? Oh well...I am a reservist

i am in the united states marine corps oorahh and we will kick canda ass
Nothing like a little pride in service...ehh marine...except if you look on the core values card pride isn't on there. You know there used to be a day when you didn't brag about what you could do...you just did it...must be why I got out.

Either that or Canada doesn't like to lose soldiers to the stupidity of the US Air Force...
Look people moving bomb them...what they were Canadians?? Oh well...I am a reservist



Wow. Didn't that happen because someone put in the Grid Coordinates wrong? And so the GPS guided bomb went to the coordinates that were assigned not necessarily the ones they meant? Thats the sort of Human error that can happen. Seriously this is a what a grid for a 10 meter square looks like

DA 3405205872


and how hard is it to mix one of those numerals up. Its a stupid mistake and I don't think it should go unpunished but its not like they did it with Malice. But then again they were just Canadian...........;) J/K!

Until about 2 years ago (damn, has it been that long?) I was a CPL(P) in the 3rd US Cavalry. I spend 2 years in Germany, a year in Colorado, and a year in western Iraq.

Until about 2 years ago (damn, has it been that long?) I was a CPL(P) in the 3rd US Cavalry. I spend 2 years in Germany, a year in Colorado, and a year in western Iraq.
What is your point boot?

What is your point boot?


The point of the thread was asking if anyone is in the Military. So I believe thats his point.

Yeah, that was my point.

I wasn't talking about the USMC, though. I would expect Marines to perform better, since they're basically the seaborne version of airborne (i.e. assault troops).
That is just stupid. I am pretty sure the Marines were around long before Airborne...let's see...oh yeah we got put into place first. As for the comparison...whatever...Marines go anywhere by whatever means we can steal to get us there...nice jet Army....we're going to borrow it.

Yeah, that was my point.
hahahaha not ever gonna argue the boot crack...man the army has no pride.

Bah, The Nort-Korean Special Forces will kick your ass, they have the largest amount of Special forces in the world...then again, if you live in NK you're either a soldier or you're starving...:D

But...Canadians...the best?! Come on! Seriously, it's a joke right?

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of war, I respect soldiers and what they do and I've been a conscript in the Swedish Army, I would prefer Peacekeeping and Peace enforcing rather than all out wars any day of the week, to many civilians (and of course soldiers) die in wars.

I'm proud of my Countrys contribution to this and wish I could go on one of those missions myself, instead I'm just going to post this story here, with a small pun to the canadians towards the end of it :D .

Article by Unicorn
Translation by J-Star and Ace

In the fall of 1993 I was serving as a heavy machinegunner at Nordbat 2, Guard & Escort platoon. By the end of september our SISU and a platoon from 10th mech inf company were sent urgently as reinforcements to the 8th mech inf company area of responsibility in Vares. This was because several of the battalion's armored vehicles had been involved in clashes with units of the HVO. The 8th coy had also been subjected to ambushes.

The mood in Vares was nasty and very threatening. No civilians what-so-ever were moving outdoors and the entire time we were close, too close, to losing control of the situation. If we ever had any control that is. We were a few hundred Swedes against an entire Croatian brigade.

Houses were burning here and there in Vares and its surroundings, but from one of the battalion observation posts one could see the light of a fire that from the looks of it was more serious. It seemed as if an entire village was in flames. However, Croatian forces were blocking the access routes and refused to let anyone near the village.

Units from the Swedish battalion had repeatedly been, and still were, subjected to ambushes by "unknown" soldiers. Sometimes they shot back. The whole situation was like walking a thin line. Most of the SISU-vehicles had one or more tires that had been scavenged from less prioritized vehicles. The tires had been blown out and shot at such a pace that no more spares were available. Instead there were now a couple of trucks without wheels put up on blocks in the camp.

The mood between the Croatian forces and the Swedish battalion was as mentioned not the best. Still though the hostilities were not official. Going into the village on the other hand would have meant an open confrontation with the HVO. The Swedish battalion was a few hundred men, and reinforcements were not available in the foreseeable future. Against them, they would have gotten the entire Croatian Bobovac Brigade.

A refugee managed to reach the Nordbat camp and reported that the people in the burning village had been put through terrible atrocities. The village's name was Stupni Do. Rumours had it that some forty villagers had escaped and were hiding in the woods some kilometres from the village, in the middle of the frontline. They were probably trying to reach the Bosnian side of the front.

Together with battalion commander Ulf Henricsson and a few members of his staff we left in our SISU in an attempt to find the refugees. It was dark, houses were burning around us, and we left for the frontline. A couple of times we negotiated our way through checkpoints controlled by HVO, the Bosnian-Croatian army.

We searched with night vision goggles but couldn't find the refugees. We thought we had found their location - a creepy cemetery on the steep hillside. We saw no one and could do nothing alone in the darkness, so we returned to the camp for a couple of hours of sleep.

At the camp all available personnel were in entrenchments. The 8th coy camp was situated in a valley between high mountains and it was a nightmare to protect against assaults or snipers. A letter had been left during the day where they threatened to once again attack the camp. It was biting cold outside and the only thing that didn't freeze was the mud, that reached above the ankles. The fog was thick and made it impossible to see more than 50 meters.

Early in the morning we made another attempt to rescue the refugees. This time we brought two medic SISU's and another armed Guard/Escort SISU. Major Daniel Ekberg was in command of the unit. We negotiated a passage through a couple of checkpoints and went back to the location we had found last evening. There we stopped in the middle of the road in a narrow canyon between two hill slopes. We used our powerful horns on the vehicles and our interpreter Ruzdi Ekenheim explained through a megaphone that we were from UNPROFOR and there to help. Nothing happened. If the refugees really were there they were afraid to show themselves. Twenty minutes passed and soon we would have to leave. If the HVO found us we would be in trouble.

Just when we had begun to give up hope we hear a cry for help from the forest. Little by little twenty five frozen, shocked human remnants come to us. A woman had died during the night, but we had no means of bringing her corpse. We left her body behind.

A pretty girl in her twenties throws herself crying around the neck of Ekenheim. She tells of how she was forced to watch her family get killed. Her boyfriend was on crutches after an injury, and they made her watch them kill him. If she had dropped as much as a tear they would have killed her too. After this they raped her and threw her into a house with some other villagers. The door was blocked and the house was set on fire.

The girl was alive now thanks to a sledge being found. While the house was burning, they used that to make a hole in the wall and managed to flee into the forest at the back of the house.

In the middle of our rescue operation a mini-bus filled with Croatian HVO soldiers comes driving towards us at high speed. I pointed my heavy machinegun at them and armed it. The warning shot I intended to fire turned out not to be necessary though. At the mere sight of the muzzle the soldiers became so frightened that they drove off the road. We let the trembling soldiers leave the scene in the company of two other HVO soldiers that had been captured and disarmed by the Guard/Escort-SISU at the other end of the column.

After making sure we had gotten all refugees and loaded them into our already crammed SISU-vehicles we drove to the village Pominici on the Bosnian side of the front. Our SISU was so full of people that I had to stand on one leg the whole trip there. Since the rear was packed with refugees, any attempt to lessen the target silhouette by crouching behind the machinegun was made impossible and I felt like my entire upper body was a glow-in-the-dark target for the Croatian snipers.

I will never forget the emotions and facial expressions that met us in Pominici. People desperately looking for relatives. The relief of finding the one they were looking for. The despair when someone wasn't there. At least I had an affirmation that our presence was not only justified. It was essential.

Now we just had to get back. That turned out to be more difficult than we expected. By now the HVO knew what we had done. They didn't like that we had "picked sides" by helping the refugees. Probably it also was against UN directives for the area. At a checkpoint in the southern outskirts of Vares we were stopped. Major Ekberg asked for advice on the radio. Ulf Henricsson himself answered.

"-This is Victor Lima One. Are there any mines there?"
"-Negative!"
"-Give them two minutes - then run you the damn thing down!"

That was the first roadblock, but far from the last, to be smashed under the Nordic battalion's armoured vehicles.

We ran a gauntlet through Vares before we were stopped by soldiers with anti tank weapons. Four solders with LAWs were fanned out in front of the convoy. The situation was so tense one careless move would immediately have set off a battle. As I was standing at the heavy machinegun in the front-most vehicle I realized I would be the first to fall. Add to that the machinegun was mounted on an anti-aircraft carriage completely devoid of armour protection. I was an easy target. At the same time I realized my weapon was the only thing that would get us out of there if the battle started. I started preparing for my own death by giving orders and assigning targets for the others in the rear of the vehicle. The most important thing was that someone took my weapon when - not if - I fell.

The Croatian military policeman that was in charge of the HVO soldiers stepped up with a couple of men to negotiate. He had 25 hash marks on the butt if his AK47. One for each enemy he had killed. Major Ekberg and the interpreter Ekeheim hade stepped out of the SISU and were now negotiating with the Croatians. The situation was tense. Very tense. After some time of negotiating the tension seemed to ease a bit. We thought the danger was over - but just like a letter in the mail a mentally disturbed HVO soldier came in a white VW Golf. Something had snapped with him when his entire family was obliterated by a grenade. For some reason he now hated the UN for this.

He stepped out of his car among the negotiating Swedes and Croatians, mad as a hornet, and grabbed on the HVO soldiers' LAWs in order to fire it against the SISU behind ours. In an instant the situation escalated and I had time to think "Shit, this is really happening now".

This was one of those moments in your life when time stands completely still. I saw in the eyes of the Croatian soldier that was in the sights of my 12.7 millimetre machinegun that he understood what was about to happen.

I'm pulling it...

But - a fraction of a second before the first projectiles from my heavy machinegun would have struck the chest of the first of the four LAW-carrying soldiers fifty meters in front of us, one of the Croatians managed to strike the somewhat antisocial man with a straight punch and remove the LAW from him. I eased up on the trigger and felt I must have been right on the pressure point of it. So damn close. Maybe there wouldn't be any killing after all.

Everyone breathed a sigh of relief. Had he had time to aim the LAW at the SISU, a series of events would have been started that couldn't have ended with anything but us or the Croatians being the only ones standing up. I felt my legs were shaking continuously. Partly from the psychical strain and partly from standing in the exact same strenuous position for half an hour.

The LAW soldier in my sights didn't like the fact that I was aiming at him and changed position. Not so strange after the incident with the LAW snatcher. I followed him with the barrel. He showed with unmistakable gestures that he felt provoked. I didn't care. We stared each other out, and neither wanted to be the first to back down. In the middle of our psychological duel I leaned out from behind the machinegun, winked and smiled at him. I won the battle. He became so flabbergasted he didn't really know what to do or how to behave, and started pacing like a confused chicken.

Suddenly Colonel Ulf Henricssons jeep shows up out of nowhere. The short statured - but oh so powerful - colonel steps out and starts shouting orders at both Swedes and HVO soldiers. The HVO men look almost astonished, and like magic Henricsson dominates the scene in a manner few people are capable of. He takes control of the situation and defuses it completely. We quite simply leave, leaving behind a large group of open-mouthed HVO soldiers.

We return to the camp for a debriefing of what the refugees have told us about Stupni Do. Conclusion: we ARE going into that village. Two mech inf platoons from 8th and 10th coy are selected for the task. For the first time in a very, very long time Swedish troops are ordered to get ready to take terrain. The platoons are assigned the north and south access roads to Stupni Do and set out.

At the same time we give colonel Henricsson a ride to the Bobovac Brigade headquarters in our SISU. The Croatians are given one last chance to let us in. If they don't, we will go in anyway. Exactly what the very resolute Henricsson said to the Bobovac Brigade commander I don't know - but the commander comes out personally and drives ahead of us in his personal maroon Vaz Niva to make sure we are let into the village.

Fairly undramatically we meet up with the mech inf platoon assigned to the northern approach of the village. There is also an armoured jeep there with a near suicidal television crew. Henricsson decides to take advantage of the situation and invites the crew to document what has happened. The colonel walks with the journalists ahead of our SISU as we slowly roll into Stupni Do.

Not one house in the village had been spared. Everything had been blown up, burnt down, destroyed. At first glance the village seemed devoid of people, but just after a few minutes we find the charred remains of a person. After a careful search a total of twenty corpses are found, among them a child about eight to ten years old that had been kicked to death. Three women that had tried to hide in a potato store had had their throats slit. Then they had been shot in the head. The corpses were still desperately holding hands. When a pioneer platoon later on are to carry out the bodies they find a booby trap had been set by putting an armed grenade in the armpit of one of the bodies. It falls out on the floor without detonating.

The entire village was completely eradicated. A single cow and some cat had in some strange way escaped annihilation. Smoke was smouldering from the foundations of the houses. Water was bizarrely enough running from the blown up water mains. A sole yellow child's boot was on a slope outside one of the houses. I'm still wondering what had happened to the child that just some day ago been spending its time happily playing. Maybe the child was one of the little girls that were said to have been burned alive with gasoline for the murderers' amusement.

Colonel Henricsson stepped back into the SISU. We were now going to Pominici to interview the refugees thoroughly. We were all very dogged. An HVO soldier was no longer worth anything in the eyes of Nordbat. The respect we possibly had felt before was completely gone. As we are driving through the southern approach to Stupni Do the HVO has mined the passage under the railway viaduct we have to pass. On the other side is the mech inf platoon assigned to the southern approach. Colonel Henricsson gives the nearest HVO soldier a raging excoriation. The man is horror-struck and defends himself by saying he "just a soldier!". But he refuses to remove the mines and we simply drive up the slopes and over the railway. In the middle of the rail yard we greet the mech inf platoon heading the other way.

We are once again stopped at the checkpoint we forced our way through earlier that day. They don't intend to get run over again and have placed mines across the road. A furious colonel Henricsson jumps out of the SISU with his interpreter Ekenheim. Henricsson explains that the mines will be removed, or "we will blow your head off", pointing demonstratively at my heavy machinegun. The muzzle is pointed right at the HVO soldier's forehead and judging by his face it must have looked as if it was the muzzle of a howitzer. Ekenheim simultaneously translates Henricssons berating of the soldier, amusingly enough with the same lively gestures.

The entire crew of the vehicle is standing in the hatches, ready to fire. One man is even in a kneeling position on top of the vehicle. Our grim expressions and determined gazes makes the HVO soldiers realize that the discussion is over. None of them dare touch their guns. Nordbat is not negotiating anymore today.

When nothing happens colonel Henricsson picks up the first mine from the road himself and throws is carelessly at a pile of tires at a house wall. He picks up another mine and sends it in the same direction. Finally he forces the checkpoint commander as a final defeat to pick up the last mine himself. Stooped over he trots along with the mine in his hands. The road is clear and we continue.

In the same insane pace we continue our rampage in Vares for another few days. Nordbat Two is no longer negotiating about the "freedom of movement" the UN was entitled to according to an agreement with the fighting parties. Those who stand in our way we run over. As per order by colonel Henricsson we are authorized for immediate fire for effect. In his own words: "We shot the warning shot last Thursday".

In three days we sleep a total of a few hours. The little sleep we get is usually in a firing position at the camp with sleeping-bags wrapped around the body in order to not freeze to death. We eat frozen "pyttipanna” (hashed meat and potatoes) that we chisel from large tin cans. That's when someone suddenly realizes we're being benefit taxed for free food and lodging. For the same amount as if we had stayed at the Scandic Hotel eating entrecote.

The Canadian troops assigned to us as reinforcements consider us to be crazy already on the first day and leave us as they deem the situation to be too dangerous. Instead, a couple of days later we get reinforced by a company from the French foreign legion.

The non-Swedish UN-generals, who previously were sceptical towards Nordbat 2 changed their attitude in the blink of an eye after Vares. Comrades from my platoon were giving Ulf Henricsson a ride to the UN Headquarters at Kiseljak outside Sarajevo a couple of days after the climax.

In the old Olympic Games motel that housed "BH Command" there was a large canteen where all the personnel dined. When a small group of Swedish soldiers get in the food queue with colonel Henricsson up front everyone in the room stands up, from privates to generals, and applauds. Nordbat 2 had made themselves a reputation in Bosnia.

The British general and UN commander in Bosnia Sir Michael Rose, former chief of 22 SAS Regiment (and previously one of the strongest critics towards the Swedish presence) later wants the Swedish battalion to be a part of a special rapid reaction unit to be deployed in special situations anywhere in Bosnia. The Swedish government declined. Sir Michael Rose later wrote a debate article back home in the UK where the Swedish soldiers are mentioned as a shining example of how a conscript based military system also can produce soldiers of the highest international ranking.

One of the "suicidal" journalists on site in Vares was Anthony Lloyd, himself a former soldier in the British army and a Northern Ireland and Gulf War veteran. In his book "My war gone by, I miss it so" he mentions the Swedes in the following manner:

"The men inside (the APC) might have been UN but they were playing by a completely different set of rules.

They were Swedes; in terms of individual intelligence, integrity and single-mindedness I was to find them among the most impressive soldiers I had ever encountered.

In Vares their moment had come."

I like how the Canadians leave the first day, while we peaceloving swedes stay (200 years of peace...we hold the world record.)...Is that how you fierce Canadians consider yourself "the best in the world"? ;)

Or at least I haven't heard any complaints yet.


Hahaha, no complaints about equipment? That puts them WAY ahead of either ours or the US special forces equipmentwise then :P

Lets face it. SAS are the best of the best.

Hahaha, no complaints about equipment? That puts them WAY ahead of either ours or the US special forces equipmentwise then :P
Well, the German army has been doing some upgrading in the past decade, and the KSK gets access to everything the Bundeswehr has to offer. So various G36 versions, the same sniper rifles the Brits use (some sort of AWP or something), missile launchers and so on.

See, the trick to having reliable equipment is not to have a big air force or navy. That way, if something goes wrong, you can just walk.

The best military in the world is Israel. Its AFVs and equipment are all combat-proven on a large scale. Unlike any Canadian equipment. The US and UK, being involve in conflicts all over the world come into the top ten: they have had (between them) Vietnam, Sierra Lione, Kosavo, Northern Ireland and Iraq to hone their skills. Canadas military looks good on paper, and in the past it's had a lot of experience, but there's no serious, large playing field to test their armaments.

Canadas military looks good on paper, and in the past it's had a lot of experience, but there's no serious, large playing field to test their armaments.
I think they've done a good job. They've taken command of ISAF (not sure whether they have it right now) and provided the second-largest force in the country.

The thing is that there aren't going to be serious, large wars any time soon. There will be no war Canada fights where the US won't be on its side. I think Canada is in NATO as well, which further underscores what their priorities should be.

They are doing a good job peacekeeping, and their special forces and the like have successfully supported US heavier troops and air force. You can hypothetically take Canada out of all that and isolate it, and then look at it compared to another isolated military - but really, you can't blame the Canadian government for not bothering with it.

I like how the Canadians leave the first day, while we peaceloving swedes stay (200 years of peace...we hold the world record.)...Is that how you fierce Canadians consider yourself "the best in the world"? ;)

I thought the Swiss had the Record at 400+ Years???

I think they've done a good job. They've taken command of ISAF (not sure whether they have it right now) and provided the second-largest force in the country.

The thing is that there aren't going to be serious, large wars any time soon. There will be no war Canada fights where the US won't be on its side. I think Canada is in NATO as well, which further underscores what their priorities should be.

They are doing a good job peacekeeping, and their special forces and the like have successfully supported US heavier troops and air force. You can hypothetically take Canada out of all that and isolate it, and then look at it compared to another isolated military - but really, you can't blame the Canadian government for not bothering with it.

You're right. They've not done a bad job, but they (like most other countries in the world) can't try out and improve their equipment properly. In the Israeli Merkava, the negine is mounted at the front, to protect the crew. Who thought of that? A tank crewman who got shot from behind with an RPG. The huge engine block saved him, but usualy far more shots hit the front. That's just one example of thousands.

Well, the German army has been doing some upgrading in the past decade, and the KSK gets access to everything the Bundeswehr has to offer. So various G36 versions, the same sniper rifles the Brits use (some sort of AWP or something), missile launchers and so on.

See, the trick to having reliable equipment is not to have a big air force or navy. That way, if something goes wrong, you can just walk.

Are the German military still doing their "Soldat der Zukunft (sp?)"-program? I read about it a while back and the tech seemed quite nice...

They've not done a bad job, but they (like most other countries in the world) can't try out and improve their equipment properly. In the Israeli Merkava...
Canada doesn't really make its own equipment though, unlike Israel. They buy whatever they consider useful from other countries, and so they stay with the pack. Designing their own things would just cost them too much and not really benefit them all that much.

You could level that criticism at Germany, which does make a lot of equipment, but never goes to war though. But then, people seem to be quite happy with most of German military exports.

Anyone in the military?
Do old retired/disabled veterans count? [ Points at his signature ]

These contests though were your Rangers against the Canadian Special Forces.


Rangers aren't really Special Forces, or commando's. They are Elite Infantry, moreso than Airborne Infantry and Marines. But they aren't SF

Are the German military still doing their "Soldat der Zukunft (sp?)"-program? I read about it a while back and the tech seemed quite nice...
They are, but we'll see whether it really works in practice just yet. Nice though that they actually think about the future although they really have no money. :p

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/idz/

Canada doesn't really make its own equipment though, unlike Israel. They buy whatever they consider useful from other countries, and so they stay with the pack. Designing their own things would just cost them too much and not really benefit them all that much.

You could level that criticism at Germany, which does make a lot of equipment, but never goes to war though. But then, people seem to be quite happy with most of German military exports.

I could level the criticism at anyone except any country still at war (there are 47 official wars going on at the moment). The Russian Maxim in WWII was pre WWI, but it sill worked perfectly because it was battle tested. The M-16 looks like a wonderful weapon, but Vietnam showed us we were wrong. A large-scale war will show everyone (except all the aforementioned countries) that their equipment's not quite so good under combat conditions.

You could level that criticism at Germany, which does make a lot of equipment, but never goes to war though. But then, people seem to be quite happy with most of German military exports.



2 letters and a number for ya

M


P


5

You're right. They've not done a bad job, but they (like most other countries in the world) can't try out and improve their equipment properly. In the Israeli Merkava, the negine is mounted at the front, to protect the crew. Who thought of that? A tank crewman who got shot from behind with an RPG. The huge engine block saved him, but usualy far more shots hit the front. That's just one example of thousands.

The problem with israeli equipment is that it's designed for Israeli conditions, especially the Merkava.

I could level the criticism at anyone except any country still at war (there are 47 official wars going on at the moment). The Russian Maxim in WWII was pre WWI, but it sill worked perfectly because it was battle tested. The M-16 looks like a wonderful weapon, but Vietnam showed us we were wrong. A large-scale war will show everyone (except all the aforementioned countries) that their equipment's not quite so good under combat conditions.


Ok i'm tired of hearing it, the Vietnam era M-16's did suck. But the M-16A2, M-16A3,M-16A4 and the M-4A1 and M-4A2 ARE WORLDS apart from those weapons from 1965.


First off there was a problem with the ammunition, a combination of the the powder and and the lining of the chamber was causing corrosion. THat has been fixed.

Occasionaly the bolt doesn't seat right anymore, and so you have a forward assist, with weapons that Lever off of the bolt(just about any weapon in existence at the moment) for a charging handle you don't need a forward assist because the handle moves forward with the bolt.

Jamming, oh yes, this is supposedly the big killer of the M-16, McNamara's Department of Defense decided it was prudent to tell the Army that the M-16 is so High tech, it doesn't need to be cleaned, at all. So guess what, soldiers upon hearing that, did not clean them. And then after firing continously, they jammed. HMMMM.

The M-16A1 fixed a lot of these problems, but the M-16A2 Really is a great weapon. I enjoy shooting it and with properly Maintained Magazines(not the old tired ones they had on the range in Basic Training) I have yet to have an M-16 Jam on me. It's reliable, and Accurate, and doesn't weigh a lot.


I like it.

MP5
I was more thinking bigger exports, like submarines, tanks and artillery pieces.

But while we're at it - is the MP5 any good? I suppose it must be, cuz it's been around for so long, but I don't know much about guns.

Rangers aren't really Special Forces, or commando's. They are Elite Infantry, moreso than Airborne Infantry and Marines. But they aren't SF
Close, but no cigar.

US Special Operations Forces consist mostly of:

1. Special Forces - originally designed to be insurgency/counterinsurgency trainers for indigenous government forces, or trainers for insurgents, depending upon mission. Airborne insertion, including HALO.

2. Rangers - long-range reconnissance, "snatch" operations, and other missions generally behind enemy lines or deep in enemy territory. Some airborne insertion.

3. Seals - special operations missions involving waterborne insertion/extraction. Some airborne insertion.

4. Delta Force - originally designed as counter-terrorism/counter-terrorist specialists. Airborne, HALO, waterborne insertion.

5. Marine Force Recon - originally desiged as long-range reconnissance forces, but used in a wide variety of missions. Airborne and waterborne insertion may be utilized.

6. Various other special operations forces, sometimes formed on an ad hoc basis, often for one mission or a limited period of time. May include members of any or all of the above listed SpecOps organizations, as well as CIA, NSA and other "non-military" organizations. May require airborne insertion, HALO, waterborne insertion.

I was more thinking bigger exports, like submarines, tanks and artillery pieces.

But while we're at it - is the MP5 any good? I suppose it must be, cuz it's been around for so long, but I don't know much about guns.



::drools::

I want one.


You have no idea how much i want one.


Lightweight, accurate, simple, easy to take appart, almost zero recoil (less so than the M-16 if thats at all possible)
Probably one of if not THE best Submachine guns in existence.

if you haven't noticed, Small arms is my thing, i love shooting and playing with them.

German Tanks are good. Hurray for the Leopard Series
German Subs are good. If you want a Diesel sub, go german. Period.

German Artillery, don't know much about it.

Close, but no cigar.

US Special Operations Forces consist mostly of:

1. Special Forces - originally designed to be insurgency/counterinsurgency trainers for indigenous government forces, or trainers for insurgents, depending upon mission. Airborne insertion, including HALO.

2. Rangers - long-range reconnissance, "snatch" operations, and other missions generally behind enemy lines or deep in enemy territory. Some airborne insertion.

3. Seals - special operations missions involving waterborne insertion/extraction. Some airborne insertion.

4. Delta Force - originally designed as counter-terrorism/counter-terrorist specialists. Airborne, HALO, waterborne insertion.

5. Marine Force Recon - originally desiged as long-range reconnissance forces, but used in a wide variety of missions. Airborne and waterborne insertion may be utilized.

6. Various other special operations forces, sometimes formed on an ad hoc basis, often for one mission or a limited period of time. May include members of any or all of the above listed SpecOps organizations, as well as CIA, NSA and other "non-military" organizations. May require airborne insertion, HALO, waterborne insertion.


(I considered special forces the ones that actually go through HALO, which is everyone of the above but Rangers.)
your forgetting the Airforce one, its Air Combat Controllers? It's something like that, they have a Cherry Red Beret I believe.

German Artillery, don't know much about it.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/pzh2000/

i serv'd in the IDF(Israel Defance Force)
it's the army with the greatest home visits in the world

your forgetting the Airforce one, its Air Combat Controllers? It's something like that, they have a Cherry Red Beret I believe.
Yes. I considered listing them along with the others, but since they are mostly limited to base security and locating/holding pospective forward airbases, I don't really consider them Special Operations Forces. :p

BTW: the term "Special Forces" has been redefined by the media to include ALL "Special Operations Forces," which most of us find unacceptable. "Special Forces" are a type of Special Operations Force, as I indicated in the list I posted.

it's the army with the greatest home visits in the world
See...finally a real soldier! :D

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/pzh2000/
For someone who isn't much of a nationalist, you sure are clued up about the German army. :p

i serv'd in the IDF(Israel Defance Force)
it's the army with the greatest home visits in the world

*salutes*


No seriously, wow.

For someone who isn't much of a nationalist, you sure are clued up about the German army. :p


He's a Nationalist, he just doesn't realize it or admit it.

See...finally a real soldier! :D
So what am I? Sliced bread? :p

EDIT: DON"T ANSWER THAT!! :D

So what am I? Sliced bread? :p
Buttered toast. Maybe with a bit of jam on the side.

I used to be in the U.S. Navy. My military service helped to craft me into the person I am today. :)

How's that for a recommendation? :p
It warms the heart to know that the military had such an effect on you and I.

Either that, or really strange people are attracted to military service.

It warms the heart to know that the military had such an effect on you and I.

Either that, or really strange people are attracted to military service.
And made even stranger.

And made even stranger.
Oh thank you sooo much! :rolleyes:

Oh thank you sooo much! :rolleyes:
My pleasure. :)

My first job was with the Salvation Army....does that count?

Ok i'm tired of hearing it, the Vietnam era M-16's did suck. But the M-16A2, M-16A3,M-16A4 and the M-4A1 and M-4A2 ARE WORLDS apart from those weapons from 1965.


First off there was a problem with the ammunition, a combination of the the powder and and the lining of the chamber was causing corrosion. THat has been fixed.

Occasionaly the bolt doesn't seat right anymore, and so you have a forward assist, with weapons that Lever off of the bolt(just about any weapon in existence at the moment) for a charging handle you don't need a forward assist because the handle moves forward with the bolt.

Jamming, oh yes, this is supposedly the big killer of the M-16, McNamara's Department of Defense decided it was prudent to tell the Army that the M-16 is so High tech, it doesn't need to be cleaned, at all. So guess what, soldiers upon hearing that, did not clean them. And then after firing continously, they jammed. HMMMM.

The M-16A1 fixed a lot of these problems, but the M-16A2 Really is a great weapon. I enjoy shooting it and with properly Maintained Magazines(not the old tired ones they had on the range in Basic Training) I have yet to have an M-16 Jam on me. It's reliable, and Accurate, and doesn't weigh a lot.

I like it.

Perhaps I shouldn't have said M-16 specificaly. Any guns except the AK-47 and the Galil aren't worth their salt. All the experience you just mentioned was on a firing range. It's a bit different when you're actually shooting at someone.

He's a Nationalist, he just doesn't realize it or admit it.
http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/shiftyeyes3d.gif

While we're at it...while doing a little more surfing on that "army technology" website, I found various new UAVs coming out (and yes, including a German one or two :p ) and as I understand it, the difference between some of those and the Predator is that the Predator is radio-controlled, and they are real robots.
Maybe we won't need people to die in a few decades. Makes war a lot more agreeable.

http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/shiftyeyes3d.gif

While we're at it...while doing a little more surfing on that "army technology" website, I found various new UAVs coming out (and yes, including a German one or two :p ) and as I understand it, the difference between some of those and the Predator is that the Predator is radio-controlled, and they are real robots.
Maybe we won't need people to die in a few decades. Makes war a lot more agreeable.
Yes, a rather pleasant affair. One can play tennis on one's private tennis court and sip tea and crumpets whilst one's radio-controlled robots blow apart one's opponents to smithereens. Splendid. One is absolutely delighted. :)

US Army Ranger, Delta Forces, the SAS...all nice. But nothing compares to the US Marine Corps except the Royal Marines

Troll implies someone saying something they don't really believe just to get a rise of someone.

As far as I know from all his other arguments he really believes the tripe he spews


nah i think he meant living under a bridge kinda troll:)

yeah i want to join thr irish rangers they're supposed to be the best special forces in europe because they always win the war games

Perhaps I shouldn't have said M-16 specificaly. Any guns except the AK-47 and the Galil aren't worth their salt. All the experience you just mentioned was on a firing range. It's a bit different when you're actually shooting at someone.

ok. Thats a completely narrow minded assesment. I'm not even going to start an argument there, I don't care too, its late and I'm tired. And AK-47 vs. M16 is such a tired/overused topic anyway.

Yes, a rather pleasant affair. One can play tennis on one's private tennis court and sip tea and crumpets whilst one's radio-controlled robots blow apart one's opponents to smithereens. One is absolutely delighted. :)
But to come back to the whole Nationalism issue...you made me think.

The military stuff aside (I do find the equipment neat, but I think I have demonstrated often enough that I'd rather not see it used), I have to say that I do like Germany.
Obviously it's what I know and where I come from (plus you add the rose-tinted glasses from living in exile), but I think it has done a good job of sticking to some ideals more thoroughly than most.
In a way, WWII and particularly Denazification, was a good thing in that it produced a country that genuinely dislikes patriotism and nationalism in all its forms (except at the football of course).
It's true that I am more eager to defend the place than most Germans (although I still wouldn't call myself patriotic, and certainly not nationalistic), but often its because I consider the attitude Germany has to foreign policy and living together to be so worthy of preservation and promotion.

In other areas, I'm not a fan of the stuff that happens there at all. I think we need a Maggie Thatcher, or at least something to the effect, to get us out of the last century and into the next one, to bring back a bit of imagination, innovation and a general sense of getting something done. I think many of the backroom deals that have gone on with the politicians were a load of crap, and I must say that I didn't take Schröder's new career very well at all.
Oh, and the education system in Germany does suck monkeyballs.

In other areas, I'm not a fan of the stuff that happens there at all. I think we need a Maggie Thatcher, or at least something to the effect, to get us out of the last century and into the next one, to bring back a bit of imagination, innovation and a general sense of getting something done. I think many of the backroom deals that have gone on with the politicians were a load of crap, and I must say that I didn't take Schröder's new career very well at all.
Oh, and the education system in Germany does suck monkeyballs.
Maybe you're some kind of crypto-patriot :p In any case, I think Merkel is going to help breath some fresh air into the country. She herself is a breath of fresh air. As for the education system, I must agree. Imperial Germany's universities were some of the leading ones in the world. Now, I don't think even Heidelberg makes the top 10 universities globally. BTW, there is nothing wrong with being patriotic if you feel your country is worthy of it.

Maybe you're some kind of crypto-patriot :p In any case, I think Merkel is going to help breath some fresh air into the country. She herself is a breath of fresh air. As for the education system, I must agree. Imperial Germany's universities were some of the leading ones in the world. Now, I don't think even Heidelberg makes the top 10 universities globally. BTW, there is nothing wrong with being patriotic if you feel your country is worthy of it.


I'm personally nationalistic. I love my country and the Ideals it was founded on, I don't necessarily love my government, but you can change the government.

I'm not a faddish flag waving patriot, I am a Patriot but not one of those that ran around after 9/11 with American Flags displayed everywhere(and actually mostly improperly too, but i won't get into that)
Mostly I believe politicians in general, worldwide are at least a little corrupt, you mostly can't get the job without being corrupt. So most elections are the lesser of two evils. And I wish there was an American Politician that actually excited me. But no, I'll be disappointed


I also love my army, I have esprit de corps, thats why I stick up for it I guess. It's not perfect and a lot of things need fixed, but it isn't evil.

I'm personally nationalistic. I love my country and the Ideals it was founded on, I don't necessarily love my government, but you can change the government.

I'm not a faddish flag waving patriot, I am a Patriot but not one of those that ran around after 9/11 with American Flags displayed everywhere(and actually mostly improperly too, but i won't get into that)
Mostly I believe politicians in general, worldwide are at least a little corrupt, you mostly can't get the job without being corrupt. So most elections are the lesser of two evils. And I wish there was an American Politician that actually excited me. But no, I'll be disappointed


I also love my army, I have esprit de corps, thats why I stick up for it I guess. It's not perfect and a lot of things need fixed, but it isn't evil.
I personally am a bit torn. I love both my country, South Africa (even though its going completely in the wrong direction), as well as the EU, and Europe more generally, given that I have recent connections to it. Whereas with South Africa its more of a liaison d'amour, with the EU its almost nationalism. True, the EU could do with a lot of change, but I am firmly committed to it.

Either that or Canada doesn't like to lose soldiers to the stupidity of the US Air Force...
Look people moving bomb them...what they were Canadians?? Oh well...I am a reservist

That's not entirely fair. Accidents do happen in combat. In this particular case, yes, I agree the pilots cocked up and need to be punished, but more importantly, so do those at higher levels who failed to properly (and not in a CYA type of way) communicate the fact that the area was designated as a permanent friendly exercise area.

Of course, the lower ranks will always pay and the brass never will.

My pleasure. :)
Obviously. :rolleyes:

So what major achievments have your Canadien Special Forces done that makes you think they are better than the US Rangers, or SAS?
I'm goin into the army as soon as i leave university.
Canada has the longest sniper kill ever. One mile. I beleive it was in Afganistan. I'm suprised anyone from the pacifist (and anti-US) nationstates forums would join the army.

How would your assault troops do up against the boys from 82nd Airborne Division or 173 Airborne Brigade?

Again, all I can say is that the CAB (and all the line regts) performed quite well against US forces, to the point that competition was very heated, which I take to mean that the outcome was always a 50-50 affair, which is good.

Obviously. :rolleyes:
:p

Wow. Didn't that happen because someone put in the Grid Coordinates wrong? And so the GPS guided bomb went to the coordinates that were assigned not necessarily the ones they meant? Thats the sort of Human error that can happen. Seriously this is a what a grid for a 10 meter square looks like

DA 3405205872


and how hard is it to mix one of those numerals up. Its a stupid mistake and I don't think it should go unpunished but its not like they did it with Malice. But then again they were just Canadian...........;) J/K!

No. You may be confusing the incident where a B1 or B2 strike took out the US SF team guiding it with the US-Can blue-on-blue. In the case of the US-Can incident, the jump company from 3 PPCLI was engaged in a live-fire night exercise at a designated exercise area outside of Khandahar when 2 F16s saw the flashes on the ground, decided to take a look, mistook the LMG fire for AA fire, then dropped a bomb, all in violation of SOP. The only justification the US pilots could muster was self-defence, but that was called into question when the investigations brought to light the failure to follow SOP. The investigations also called into question the competence of the chain of command in failing to communicate to the pilots that there was a permanent friendly exercise area in existence, though, of course no high-ranking officer, or anyone other than the pilots, was ever charged.

That is just stupid. I am pretty sure the Marines were around long before Airborne...let's see...oh yeah we got put into place first. As for the comparison...whatever...Marines go anywhere by whatever means we can steal to get us there...nice jet Army....we're going to borrow it.

Whether or not marines existed before airborne has nothing to do with the roles in which both are employed.

I like how the Canadians leave the first day, while we peaceloving swedes stay (200 years of peace...we hold the world record.)...Is that how you fierce Canadians consider yourself "the best in the world"? ;)

Ever hear about the Battle of the Medak Pocket?

No. You may be confusing the incident where a B1 or B2 strike took out the US SF team guiding it with the US-Can blue-on-blue. In the case of the US-Can incident, the jump company from 3 PPCLI was engaged in a live-fire night exercise at a designated exercise area outside of Khandahar when 2 F16s saw the flashes on the ground, decided to take a look, mistook the LMG fire for AA fire, then dropped a bomb, all in violation of SOP. The only justification the US pilots could muster was self-defence, but that was called into question when the investigations brought to light the failure to follow SOP. The investigations also called into question the competence of the chain of command in failing to communicate to the pilots that there was a permanent friendly exercise area in existence, though, of course no high-ranking officer, or anyone other than the pilots, was ever charged.

Whooops

got the incidents confused. I don't remember hearing about the F-16 one though, but that does make sense. Shit rolls down hill, its the way of the military.

Kind of like what would have happened if we followed the Garrison CG's(Commanding General) policy of not prosecuting DUI's. Once someone on post gets killed by a DUI, who would get blamed? CG? hell no, the Road MP's weren't doing their job even though a VERBAL order from the CG said if we catch a DUI just to give them a ride home. I shit you not, A couple of Patrols were writing letters to MADD about this General who shall remain nameless. My guess is that A. He hates MP's (some of his other policies reflect that) and B. It looks better for him getting his second Star if there were no DUI's on his Post while he was commanding.


Yeah, the morale is, Shit rolls down hill and us lower enlisted bear the fucking brunt of it.

Whooops

got the incidents confused. I don't remember hearing about the F-16 one though, but that does make sense. Shit rolls down hill, its the way of the military.

Kind of like what would have happened if we followed the Garrison CG's(Commanding General) policy of not prosecuting DUI's. Once someone on post gets killed by a DUI, who would get blamed? CG? hell no, the Road MP's weren't doing their job even though a VERBAL order from the CG said if we catch a DUI just to give them a ride home. I shit you not, A couple of Patrols were writing letters to MADD about this General who shall remain nameless. My guess is that A. He hates MP's (some of his other policies reflect that) and B. It looks better for him getting his second Star if there were no DUI's on his Post while he was commanding.


Yeah, the morale is, Shit rolls down hill and us lower enlisted bear the fucking brunt of it.


Learned a long time ago - if it's a verbal order that doesn't sound right, or sounds like it could cost you your ass, ask for it in writing.

If they don't give it in writing, they won't have the balls to bring you up on charges of disobeying a direct order if you refuse to carry it out.

Did that more than once - I recall seriously illegal orders being given at a range in Germany - orders to fire up 65,000 rounds of belted ammunition in order to fake that the unit had conducted training and qualification.

I refused to carry out the order because they refused to give it to me in writing.

The rounds were then fired by others through eight weapons, and one burst, blinding one soldier.

I was the only one who wasn't court martialed.

Know when and how to keep out of trouble.

Ever hear about the Battle of the Medak Pocket?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Medak_Pocket

thats what Wikipedia has to say. They also say the Neutrality of the Article is disputed. So I don't know how the Bias goes on that.

Learned a long time ago - if it's a verbal order that doesn't sound right, or sounds like it could cost you your ass, ask for it in writing.

If they don't give it in writing, they won't have the balls to bring you up on charges of disobeying a direct order if you refuse to carry it out.

Did that more than once - I recall seriously illegal orders being given at a range in Germany - orders to fire up 65,000 rounds of belted ammunition in order to fake that the unit had conducted training and qualification.

I refused to carry out the order because they refused to give it to me in writing.

The rounds were then fired by others through eight weapons, and one burst, blinding one soldier.

I was the only one who wasn't court martialed.

Know when and how to keep out of trouble.

what did they just want the Brass and Links to turn in?


65,000 rounds, JESUS! spread over 8 weapons? that over 8,000 rounds per weapon in a DAY? HOLY FUCK!

Can we say Melting Barrels? and I'd hate to have to clean those weapons.

what did they just want the Brass and Links to turn in?


65,000 rounds, JESUS! spread over 8 weapons? that over 8,000 rounds per weapon in a DAY? HOLY FUCK!

Can we say Melting Barrels? and I'd hate to have to clean those weapons.


The barrels on the weapons were effectively destroyed. There were major runaway cookoffs. Some bullets exited the sides of melting barrels.

It was a cold day at Hohenfels, and the people didn't want to lay on frozen ground and qualify.

I refused to let my unit's weapons be used in the act, as I had signed for them, and I wasn't about to participate.

The officer and NCO in charge ended up having to pay for 65,000 rounds at 65 cents a shot.

The barrels on the weapons were effectively destroyed. There were major runaway cookoffs. Some bullets exited the sides of melting barrels.

It was a cold day at Hohenfels, and the people didn't want to lay on frozen ground and qualify.

I refused to let my unit's weapons be used in the act, as I had signed for them, and I wasn't about to participate.

The officer and NCO in charge ended up having to pay for 65,000 rounds at 65 cents a shot.


were these M-249's? M-240's or M-60's?


because i Know you can melt a -249 barrell with 400 rounds if your not carefull. (I.E. firing 2 whole drums in under 2 minutes.)


thats fucking 42, 000 dollars. Holy FUCK!

there went the rest of their pay for a couple years.

were these M-249's? M-240's or M-60's?


because i Know you can melt a -249 barrell with 400 rounds if your not carefull. (I.E. firing 2 whole drums in under 2 minutes.)

M-60.

The M-60 barrels have stellite liners, and can turn nearly white hot before you see bullets coming out the sides.

M-60.

The M-60 barrels have stellite liners, and can turn nearly white hot before you see bullets coming out the sides.


This was a Company sized eliment right?



wait i'm confused. If they were trying to fake qualification, what were they faking qualification of? the M-60? because it couldn't have been the M-16. Unless this incident was in the late 50's early 60's and they had M-14's

This was a Company sized eliment right?



wait i'm confused. If they were trying to fake qualification, what were they faking qualification of? the M-60? because it couldn't have been the M-16. Unless this incident was in the late 50's early 60's and they had M-14's

Four companies qualifying on M-60. I refused to let my company's weapons be used (I was the armorer).

The battalion S-3 and commander was REALLY upset when we all got back.

The next time the battalion went to the range, the whole battalion staff had to go - and it was even colder then. Day and night fire.

Four companies qualifying on M-60. I refused to let my company's weapons be used (I was the armorer).

The battalion S-3 and commander was REALLY upset when we all got back.

The next time the battalion went to the range, the whole battalion staff had to go - and it was even colder then. Day and night fire.

makes sense.


I wish i would have had the oppurtunity to fire the "pig" but I guess i'm stuck with the SAW on foot and MK-19 while i'm in the Truck.