NationStates Jolt Archive

If thee have any questions about the religion of Islam, please post them here. This is to prevent 30 identical threads from being made.

Why do you have two threads going, one about Jewish questions and one about Muslim questions? Are you really qualified to answer both?

Tell me everything about it in less than 1 character. It must contain words. Do it NOW!!!

Was Richard Thompson's desire to take additional wives the main reason Linda Thompson left him, or is Linda exaggerating with the bitterness of hindsight, and things would have been bad enough in their marriage without that?

Was Richard Thompson's desire to take additional wives the main reason Linda Thompson left him, or is Linda exaggerating with the bitterness of hindsight, and things would have been bad enough in their marriage without that?

That's not really a question about Islam. It's a question only 2 people on the planet are qualified to answer. In short, ask Richard and/or Linda.

Tell me everything about it in less than 1 character. It must contain words. Do it NOW!!!

*does an interpretive dance*

Ah, but how many words were included within the dance?

Ah, but how many words were included within the dance?

I was singing, too.

Touché

Touché, though the song probably contained more than single character.

Meh ... depends on your opinion of the song. ;)

Why do Islamic people find it so necessary to destroy Israel and rid the middle east of jews?

Why do Islamic people find it so necessary to destroy Israel and rid the middle east of jews?

We don't.

So do you think the land belongs to the Israelis of the Palestinians?

So do you think the land belongs to the Israelis of the Palestinians?

Neither. I think it belongs to Allah.

Otherwise, I'm not a surveyor or land contractor or title company. So ... I don't know.

Don't really care, either.

Why is islam spelled backwards Masli?

What do the general islamic population think of the likes of Osama and Al Queida?

What do the general islamic population think of the likes of Osama and Al Queida?

In general, they're not liked very much.

Here's something that I've been wondering...

Why is the heavenly "reward" for muslims (only men, I assume) 72 virgins?
We all know what they're going to do. ;)

But, this kind of behavior is forbidden on earth (or is polygamy legal?).
Also, why does heaven involve earthly pleasure?

It just seems like, even with all the similarities with Christianity, their idea of heaven is completely different from ours, and I'd like to understand it.

Here's something that I've been wondering...

Why is the heavenly "reward" for muslims (only men, I assume) 72 virgins?
We all know what they're going to do. ;)

But, this kind of behavior is forbidden on earth (or is polygamy legal?).
Also, why does heaven involve earthly pleasure?

It just seems like, even with all the similarities with Christianity, their idea of heaven is completely different from ours, and I'd like to understand it.

Actually there is still a debate going on between those who study Koran (or Qu'ran I believe it is correctly spelled in the alphabet) concerning the true meaning of the word behind 72. Another meaning could be, (though I could have remebered it incorrectly) 72 praises of Angels.

Mind you: What ploy do you think you would use to convince a teenager or a social outcast in general to commit an act of violence through self sacrifice?
I have no idea what you were thinking about when you were 16 but the idea of 72 eager ladies waiting for me in a place where pain does not exists could have sound quite luring to me at that tender age. As for them being virgin, it is a hallmark of a good woman in the Arab culture and actually in the western culture aswell not long ago.

Concerning your mental anguish wether or not polygamy is legal within the Arab world I am forced to remark that the good Prophet himself had many wives. I will stress this though that polygamy is a heritage of the Arab world and not the Islamic.

Here's something that I've been wondering...

Why is the heavenly "reward" for muslims (only men, I assume) 72 virgins?
We all know what they're going to do. ;)



It's been seriously proposed by a Middle Eastern linguist at the university I work at that the correct interpretation isn't 'virgin', but rather 'sultana' - as in 'dried grape'.

You can imagine the disappointment, can't you...

'welcome to Paradise, oh warrior of the faith - and here's your 72 raisins. Don't eat them too quickly, now!'

Why do many Islamic people feel the need to migrate into Europe? Cant they instead try to improve the circumstances that they face in their native middle eastern nations?

It's been seriously proposed by a Middle Eastern linguist at the university I work at that the correct interpretation isn't 'virgin', but rather 'sultana' - as in 'dried grape'.

You can imagine the disappointment, can't you...

'welcome to Paradise, oh warrior of the faith - and here's your 72 raisins. Don't eat them too quickly, now!'

Ah yes, it was grapes not praises. I stand quite corrected.

Why do many Islamic people feel the need to migrate into Europe? Cant they instead try to improve the circumstances that they face in their native middle eastern nations?

For the love of...

For the same reason why anyone would want to leave their beloved home to go to a nation with bad weather, awfull food in order to work in a nation whose populace think your people have just discovered fire last friday.

Because the infrastructure works better, because your own goverment sucks the life and money out of you, because your own nation in torn is war etc etc etc but mostly because you have a wife and multiple children to feed and when you hear stories of european or american street that are made entirely of gold it isn't that odd to believe when your standing knee-deep in the mud.

It's hard to be patriotic when you are starving and propagande doesn't taste aswell as a good meal paid with hard dollars.

For the love of...

thank you. i wanted to say much more than just that. an asshole's born every second.

Vegetarianistica']thank you. i wanted to say much more than just that. an asshole's born every second.


No need to be a hypocrite.

(1) Why are you so quiet?

There are a billion Muslims in the world. How is it possible that essentially none have demonstrated against evils perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam? This is true even of the millions of Muslims living in free Western societies. What are non-Muslims of goodwill supposed to conclude? When the Israeli government did not stop a Lebanese massacre of Palestinians in the Sabra and Chatilla refugee camps in Lebanon in 1982, great crowds of Israeli Jews gathered to protest their country's moral failing. Why has there been no comparable public demonstration by Palestinians or other Muslims to morally condemn Palestinian or other Muslim-committed terror?

(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

If Israeli occupation is the reason for Muslim terror in Israel, why do no Christian Palestinians engage in terror? They are just as nationalistic and just as occupied as Muslim Palestinians.

(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

According to Freedom House, a Washington-based group that promotes democracy, of the world's 47 Muslim countries, only Mali is free. Sixty percent are not free, and 38% are partly free. Muslim-majority states account for a majority of the world's "not free" states. And of the 10 "worst of the worst," seven are Islamic states. Why is this?

(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

Young girls in Indonesia were recently beheaded by Muslim murderers. Last year, Muslims — in the name of Islam — murdered hundreds of schoolchildren in Russia. While reciting Muslim prayers, Islamic terrorists take foreigners working to make Iraq free and slaughter them. Muslim daughters are murdered by their own families in the thousands in "honor killings." And the Muslim government in Iran has publicly called for the extermination of Israel.

(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

No church or synagogue is allowed in Saudi Arabia. The Taliban destroyed some of the greatest sculptures of the ancient world because they were Buddhist. Sudan's Islamic regime has murdered great numbers of Christians.

No need to be a hypocrite.

"migrate" ?

What's the difference theologicaly between Sunni and Shi'a Islam?

Why do Islamic people find it so necessary to destroy Israel and rid the middle east of jews?


The short answer is that there are ignorant people in Islam too. With that said there are alot of intelligent people that would co-exist in peace. I find with the muslim people that I know the majority wants peace.

What's the difference theologicaly between Sunni and Shi'a Islam?

In a nut shell this article explains it well in my mind.

http://islam.about.com/cs/divisions/f/shia_sunni.htm

Could the Quran possibly have been historically altered, like the Bible was?

In a nut shell this article explains it well in my mind.

http://islam.about.com/cs/divisions/f/shia_sunni.htm

Ah, thankyou, not too detailed though...

snip.....



Well there is alot to answer to this. I think the main problem is that evil people have hijacked the religion in a big way.

Another problem is the ignorance to the westren world that prevails in Muslim nations. It is a fact that the Westren world understands more about the Muslim world than the other way around. There is tremendous misunderstandings that I have run accross. With ignorance breeds more ignorance. A uprising of sorts in the academic class needs to happen.

The reason for the seemingly over abundant tyrants is due to how the part of the world that is Arabic has formed over the ages. It will take direct action for most nations to throw the yokes of the suppressors. If it takes direct foreign action to oust a leader than so be it. I think we are seeing a turning point in this aspect. Also the west needs to stop supporting the tyrants. This includes the Saudi Royal Family. Support democratic reform in all Arabic nations instead.

Could the Quran possibly have been historically altered, like the Bible was?


I was taught that the Koran in it's present form is a exact replica of the Koran of old. So apparently no.... Do I know for 100%? No.

A good question would be if the Qu'ran statements about women is truelly much worse than the bible seeing as many claim Islam to be unfriendly to women (Unfriendly relative to our western standards) Also; does the middle-eastern attitude concerning the role of women have its roots from their own culture instead of a religeous basis?

(1) Why are you so quiet?

We're not.

Google search clicky (http://www.google.com/search?q=muslims+against+terrorism&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

Continue your research. You may be surprised. Many of them are. Christians are not above terrorism. Example: Saddam Hussein's second in command is Christian.

(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

By who's definition of "free"? Yours?

(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

Muslims wouldn't do anything in the name of Buddha, now would they?

(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Same reason the Pope had Jews fried alive in oil during the Inquisition.

By who's definition of "free"? Yours?


Be fair, he did give an organization that presumably knows something objective about freedom. A better answer has already been given, anyway, namely that the history of the Middle East is not exactly pleasant.

Be fair, he did give an organization that presumably knows something objective about freedom. A better answer has already been given, anyway, namely that the history of the Middle East is not exactly pleasant.

I truelly wonder why many people think a nation based upon the principals of freedom and civil rights is the only natural way for a nation to evolve into. Truelly democracy was an oddity ever since it entered the wastebins of history after the People's assembly in Athens was no more until it resurfaced barely 400 years ago.

How about we give those nations in the middle-east a chance to develop into democracies instead of blasting them into one. Making them a democracy now will only result them chosing for factions that will return them into the state they were in previously.

If you don't constantly pray everyday, will you go to hell?

Why the hell would you want to submit yourself to Allah's will(which is what "Islam" means)? That strikes me as weak and servile. Wouldn't it be much more heroic and noble to defy Allah in favor of your own will even in the face of eternal damnation?

Why the hell would you want to submit yourself to Allah's will(which is what "Islam" means)? That strikes me as weak and servile. Wouldn't it be much more heroic and noble to defy Allah in favor of your own will even in the face of eternal damnation?

That's some is fine line of reasoning there (!) but remember for just a moment that God is the perfect being, therefor he cannot be wrong and therefor if you defy him you are wrong. Why defy him if you are wrong? Is that not immoral and foulhardy?

Mind you I am not a follower of any of the main monotheistic faiths yet I needed to point out your faulty logic upon the matter.

That's some is fine line of reasoning there (!) but remember for just a moment that God is the perfect being, therefor he cannot be wrong and therefor if you defy him you are wrong. Why defy him if you are wrong? Is that not immoral and foulhardy?

Mind you I am not a follower of any of the main monotheistic faiths yet I needed to point out your faulty logic upon the matter.

I wouldn't say that his correctness has anything to do with the nobility of defying him, in fact it only makes it a more noble act. You are destined to fail, but assert your will anyway.

I wouldn't say that his correctness has anything to do with the nobility of defying him, in fact it only makes it a more noble act. You are destined to fail, but assert your will anyway.

It's basically the question: is it moral to do evil if someone tells you not to? Most religions try to avoid doing evil, whatever that consists of. Few are structured around valuing rebellion for its own sake.

I wouldn't say that his correctness has anything to do with the nobility of defying him, in fact it only makes it a more noble act. You are destined to fail, but assert your will anyway.

Well it is an noble aspect of an otherwise sinfull act. A small virtue does not make a great afront to God right.

When God orders you to stop for example stop commiting adultry you may be brave if you defy Him but you still remain wrong.

In Islam, in what various ways do the more moderate sects deal with records in the Koran in which Allah or the Prophet or one claiming to act in their name does something that, according to modern ethical standards, would be almost universally accepted as unquestionably evil?

For example, the killing of innocents based on the percieved faults of those related to them, killing and inciting to kill innocents because they do not share the same religion as you, condemnation of all infidels to pain and torture, Muhammed's sexual relations with a 9-year-old girl, oppression of women, etc.

For example, the killing of innocents based on the percieved faults of those related to them, killing and inciting to kill innocents because they do not share the same religion as you, condemnation of all infidels to pain and torture, Muhammed's sexual relations with a 9-year-old girl, oppression of women, etc.

I think they handle it they same way most modern day christians handle the Bible, namely that they don't follow the Qu'ran/Bible to the letter.

Many of the acts commited above must be placed into their respective time frame.

Also I need to point out the big difference between marriage of a young woman at an infant age between having a sexual relation with her. To be married off to somebody at that age was common though sexual relation didnt commence untill she was sexually mature. The same practise was upheld in medieval Europe aswell. The reason I make this point is because I think you'll be hard pressed to find any sources that tell you that He engaged in sexual intercourse with a 9 year old.

Could the Quran possibly have been historically altered, like the Bible was?

Yes. Qur'an that we have was not written down until Uthman, the third caliph.

A lot of the Muhammed's companions (who were supposed to have recited the verses by heart after hearing Muhammed speak them from his supposed trances when God spoke to him the verses) were dead by then.

When the scribes asked what to do when in doubt, Uthman said (paraphrasing here) make them up.

It was council of Nicea all over again.

Yes. Qur'an that we have was not written down until Uthman, the third caliph.

A lot of the Muhammed's companions (who were supposed to have recited the verses by heart after hearing Muhammed speak them from his supposed trances when God spoke to him the verses) were dead by then.

When the scribes asked what to do when in doubt, Uthman said (paraphrasing here) make them up.

It was council of Nicea all over again.

I thought Mohammad had a diary-like thing (not sure how to describe it) on which he described his visions? Then again, I could just be really tired.

I thought Mohammad had a diary-like thing (not sure how to describe it) on which he described his visions? Then again, I could just be really tired.

He was illiterate and unlettered (meaning he cannot write).

He was illiterate and unlettered (meaning he cannot write).

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me.

Why does the muslim council in the UK want to have laws passed restricting free speech: unless said speech is homophobic?

Why does the muslim council in the UK want to have laws passed restricting free speech: unless said speech is homophobic?

Care to be more specific? Saying that someone 'wants to restrict free speech' tends to be a partisan land mine.

(1) Why are [Muslims] so quiet [about terrorism]?

They're not. Protests against terrorism just aren't covered very well by the media, and people tend not to actually look for anti-terrorism Muslim organizations before complaining that Muslims 'aren't speaking out against extermists.'

(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

First, as Keruvalia said, some are Christian. Second, think about this for a moment- how many Christian Palestinians are there? They could very well be supporters of terrorist organizations, but they'd be so small an element that the media would completely overlook them.

(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

This is a pet peeve of mine: TURKEY IS FREE, SMEGGIT! It's been a democracy since 1950 (minus a few coups that all faded back to democratic rule), its constitution granted equal rights to women before any other European constitution, and it is run by a democratically elected, multiparty parliament! If that isn't free, then France and the US must be bloody dictatorships!

Anyway, it's pretty much a coincidence that these nations happen to be Muslim. They just happened to be in areas that were conquered and colonized- by the British, the French, the Italians, and the Ottomans. When those nations left the area, political vaccuums were created, and only the strongest generals were able to seize control. It didn't help that post-colonial border lumped together groups with long-standing rivalries and hatred; observe the current controversy over the 3 major groups in Iraq, for example. Eventually, it seems likely that Middle Eastern nations will shift more toward Western ideas of democracy, as the nations of Eastern Europe did. However, I doubt that that'll happen until after alternater energy projects are profitable; at that point, with their main source of funding gone, oil-fed tyrants will probably fall like dominoes. That colonialism also made the people in those areas very hostile to Western ways of thinking; they're a lot more likely to follow their Imam than they are to follow some pale guy with the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen.

(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

For the same reason that communists deified Marx and Lenin, and various Christian groups have oppressed and murdered in the name of Christ- appealing to religious devotion is a cheap and easy way to stir people's emotions. This goes doubly so in areas with isolated, insular people like those in the Middle East. Plus, as mentioned elsewhere, it's not hard to lure people in with promises of 72 willing women in the afterlife.

(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

'Tis an interesting trait of the big three Middle Eastern monotheistic religions- they all have a tendency to oppress other religions. The Inquisition, Protestant witch hunts, McCarthyism (which attacked atheism in addition to communism)... It seems that whenever one of the Judean religions comes to power, somebody gets screwed over. This is a trait as common to Christians and Jews as it is to Muslims; see if you can find an answer to why Jews and Christians do it, and you'll have an answer as to why Muslims do it.

Many of the acts commited above must be placed into their respective time frame.

This is something which bewilders me about all 3 monotheistic religions and is the core reason why i cannot believe in one. How can the words, lessons, teachings and morals of an ominicient, omnipresent and omnipotent God, have a time frame of relevance? Surely, the holy books and their lessons should transcend all time? If they dont then how can they have come from the mouth of a divine being?

Why do Islamic people find it so necessary to destroy Israel and rid the middle east of jews?

Those living in the middle east are the ones that would mostly find it necessary, and it would be because they feel that land is theirs and they want it back.

Also they have hated jews since jewish communities refused Muhammad in Saudi Arabia, Muhammad slew them.

How do you feel about people trying to teach you that jhiad is bad by making war to you?
How do you think this war will end?

By who's definition of "free"? Yours?

Well if anyones definition of free means that they are not allowed to choose religion without fear of vilonece I'd seriously think that that concept of freedom was fundimentally flawed.

If Muslims think that Palistine belongs to the Palistainans and that the Jews should leave, should they also say that the Muslims should leave Saudi Arabia and return it to the Arab Pagans.

If thee have any questions about the religion of Islam, please post them here. This is to prevent 30 identical threads from being made.

What is the rule on listening to music?

This is something which bewilders me about all 3 monotheistic religions and is the core reason why i cannot believe in one. How can the words, lessons, teachings and morals of an ominicient, omnipresent and omnipotent God, have a time frame of relevance? Surely, the holy books and their lessons should transcend all time? If they dont then how can they have come from the mouth of a divine being?

For the simple fact that their scriptures aren't based upon the mouth of God or at least not first hand. The Bible was created ad assembled by greek scribes in Alandria so the vague nature of the Bible isn't that much of a suprise.

Why do the Sunnis and Shii'a insist on a structured leadership of the Islamic faith, when neither Allah nor Muhammed demanded or instituted such a device?

Why do the Sunnis and Shii'a insist on a structured leadership of the Islamic faith, when neither Allah nor Muhammed demanded or instituted such a device?
It's religion, not common sense. Why is there a Pope?

is the umma attainable? for those who don't know the umma, it is the world wide community of believers, more specifically, those who follow the true path or true islam.

btw, what qualifies you to answer these questions with such certainty? Muslim scholars have yet to answer many questions on the faith and I think you are trivializing some issues. Being a student of Islam, I think that if anyone wants real answers, they should do some real research, away from the internet.

now i heard this somewhere, im just going to ask you

what are the three ways you deal with infidels (non believers)?

btw, what qualifies you to answer these questions with such certainty? Muslim scholars have yet to answer many questions on the faith and I think you are trivializing some issues. Being a student of Islam, I think that if anyone wants real answers, they should do some real research, away from the internet.

why away from the internet, the interent is a mass of information, opinions, and porn. it is the center of the universe

It's religion, not common sense. Why is there a Pope?
theres a pope because the catholics seem to think he is on the right hand side of god and all that BS

why away from the internet, the interent is a mass of information, opinions, and porn. it is the center of the universe

I have read many books, by credible authors, on the nature and history of Islam. I have yet to find any websites that could match the usefullness and credibility of, say, Omar Safi, V.S. Naipal or Merzhad Bouroujerdi. Please look up these scholars, you may learn something.

I have read many books, by credible authors, on the nature and history of Islam. I have yet to find any websites that could match the usefullness and credibility of, say, Omar Safi, V.S. Naipal or Merzhad Bouroujerdi. Please look up these scholars, you may learn something.

i have no intention of studying islam, but i am damn certain that you can indeed find those sources somewhere on the web, there are many credible souces on the web, you just need to know where to find them. (and to all the blog readers, blogs are opinion, do not try to quote blogs as pure fact)

i have no intention of studying islam, but i am damn certain that you can indeed find those sources somewhere on the web, there are many credible souces on the web, you just need to know where to find them. (and to all the blog readers, blogs are opinion, do not try to quote blogs as pure fact)

Thank you! Blogs suck, many, not all, but many bloggers should be tracked down by the NSA and investigated. (nuff said bout dat) But back to internet sources, there is far less credibility on the internet because of a difficulty or inability to validate sources or confirm the truth of most things.

brb, lunch time! meanwhile, try to separate your views of muslims from this popular misconception:mp5:

What is the rule on listening to music?

It differs greatly according to sects and schools and imams and marjas.

Generally speaking, the majority of clerics frown upon music designed for human pleasures and not for the pleasure of Allah (devotional music). Taliban even outlawed music of any type.

What is the rule on listening to music?

http://www.submission.org/music.html

http://www.submission.org/music.html
Arya seems to be far more accurate than your website, especially after having conversed with several Arab Muslims here.

Your site, according to them, is propaganda meant to mitigate a negative image of Islam. It's not working.

Asking me to believe that site is like asking you to believe US Army propaganda.

Asking me to believe that site is like asking you to believe US Army propaganda.

Then why did you ask the question if you already preconceived the answer?

Arya answered the way you wanted to hear it. Arya is not Muslim.

Incidently, I can't tell you the number of people in the Mosque whenever I go have their iPods on and some sort of music playing ... often Rock or Pop, sometimes Rap ... even the older men.

When's the last time you suppose Arya went to Mosque regularly?

I stand by my answer.

Then why did you ask the question if you already preconceived the answer?

Arya answered the way you wanted to hear it. Arya is not Muslim.

Incidently, I can't tell you the number of people in the Mosque whenever I go have their iPods on and some sort of music playing ... often Rock or Pop, sometimes Rap ... even the older men.

When's the last time you suppose Arya went to Mosque regularly?

I stand by my answer.
I asked the question not knowing.
I then went and asked live breathing Muslims in person, including authorities at the mosque in downtown Washington DC - who said exactly what Arya said.

Not one - not one - said what you or your website said.

Arya knows more because he is apparently educated, lives in a society where Muslims are present by the millions, and because he doesn't have a reason to paint a rosy picture of Muslims.

I then went and asked live breathing Muslims in person, including authorities at the mosque in downtown Washington DC - who said exactly what Arya said.


I don't believe you. Which Mosque? I shall call them myself and verify your story.

Oh ... and the name of the person you spoke to.

I asked the question not knowing.
I then went and asked live breathing Muslims in person, including authorities at the mosque in downtown Washington DC - who said exactly what Arya said.

Not one - not one - said what you or your website said.

Arya knows more because he is apparently educated, lives in a society where Muslims are present by the millions, and because he doesn't have a reason to paint a rosy picture of Muslims.

Oh my God! Different people from the same religion have different interpretations of the same thing!

Shock :eek:

I don't believe you. Which Mosque? I shall call them myself and verify your story.
Masjid Muhammad

BTW, just so you get it straight, they said that some imams say that music is forbidden by Islam, and some don't, and some say that it's ok as long as it's meant as worship music, or to praise Allah.

Not your website's blanket statement that it's all OK. Which is obviously false, because different Muslims seem to have different beliefs.

What should I believe? What Muslims at a mosque tell me - that the belief varies (as was also stated by Arya, a non-Muslim), or a statement from you and the website that says that music is all good for all Muslims?

I think logic and common sense knows where the answer lies - it's not at your website.

Masjid Muhammad

BTW, just so you get it straight, they said that some imams say that music is forbidden by Islam, and some don't, and some say that it's ok as long as it's meant as worship music, or to praise Allah.

I don't have to get anything straight. I'll simply ask if someone came in asking if Music was haram. They'll either verify or not.

What should I believe? What Muslims at a mosque tell me - that the belief varies (as was also stated by Arya, a non-Muslim), or a statement from you and the website that says that music is all good for all Muslims?

The topic is question on Islam. No music is forbidden in Islam. The topic is not what specific Muslims believe.

Then again, I forgot, you are the same person who says that if someone blows themselves up in the name of Islam, they are absolutely Muslim. That you'd take a Muslim's word as truth rather than Allah's is very strange to me, but suit yourself. Your reliance on men has its own reward.

I'm off to make a phone call now.

Ooook ....

First, no clear answer. I spoke to Imam Yusuf Saleem and he doesn't remember anyone coming in today asking about that, but that's not to say you didn't speak to someone else. So I'll let that one go.

Second, here's what I got from Yusuf: "If music is forbidden, why is Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) coming out with a new album? No. Music is not forbidden in Islam. Some Shi'a believe it forbidden, but they can only back that up in man-made Hadith and not Qur'an." I don't know who you spoke to, DK, but maybe you should go back to that person and tell them to study more.

Third, I find it fascinating that you went to a Black Muslim mosque founded by Elijah Muhammed and the Nation of Islam.

Ooook ....

First, no clear answer. I spoke to Imam Yusuf Saleem and he doesn't remember anyone coming in today asking about that, but that's not to say you didn't speak to someone else. So I'll let that one go.

Second, here's what I got from Yusuf: "If music is forbidden, why is Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) coming out with a new album? No. Music is not forbidden in Islam. Some Shi'a believe it forbidden, but they can only back that up in man-made Hadith and not Qur'an." I don't know who you spoke to, DK, but maybe you should go back to that person and tell them to study more.

Third, I find it fascinating that you went to a Black Muslim mosque founded by Elijah Muhammed and the Nation of Islam.

Are they less Muslim?

I was there yesterday afternoon.

Also...

I spoke to more than one person. They all validated the idea that Islam is a heterodoxy.

Keru,

We have had spats in the past but I think you know that I do consider muslims can attain liberation through Islam as can anybody through any religion. I strongly believe that it is not in the religion, but in the way one follows a religion.

That said, I grew up in a muslim neighborhood and went to a muslim run school for 3 years during which time I did go to mosques and used to fast Ramzan to keep my friends company. I think I do have an understanding (limited, I admit and I am always open to be corrected) of Islam and muslim culture, practices and beliefs. I have been exposed to muslims of all kinds..sunni, wahabbi, shia, ismaili, ahmedi, sufi and atheistic or non-practicing types.

From these experiences, I stand by what I said earlier.

How muslims view music depends on many factors. There are celebrated musicians like A.R.Rehman, Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, Ustad Allah Rakha, Sheikh Chinna Moulana, Nuzrat Fateh Ali Khan (Pakistan) and muslim rock bands like Junoon (Pakistan) etc. These people are devout muslim and would take offence if you tell them they are not proper muslims.

But at the same time, there is the deobandi school which frowns upon music and several Pakistani clerics have issued fatwas against music and the taliban closed down radio stations because they played music. Musicians get beaten up regularly in those areas. These people also consider themselves devout muslims and would take offence if you tell them they are not proper muslims.

The funny thing is that both will quote from the (edited) hadiths to justify their POVs. It is all upto interpretation and what you emphasize.

right....

1) Why does islam brainwash children so when they grow up the muslim? Doesn't everyone have a choice in life?

2) Why are women treated as second-class citizens in islam? They don't seem to be treated equally.

3) Is it me or is islam and christianity alot alike? Jesus's mother and muhammed both saw the angel gabriel and a spider helped them by covering up a cave entrance so they wouldn't be found. Is this just a coincidence?

4) Doesn't it say in the Quaran that muslims can take white women as prostitutes? I find this appauling and wrong.

5) What do you think about people like Osama Bin Laden hiding behind their religion?

right....

1) Why does islam brainwash children so when they grow up the muslim? Doesn't everyone have a choice in life?

2) Why are women treated as second-class citizens in islam? They don't seem to be treated equally.

3) Is it me or is islam and christianity alot alike? Jesus's mother and muhammed both saw the angel gabriel and a spider helped them by covering up a cave entrance so they wouldn't be found. Is this just a coincidence?

4) Doesn't it say in the Quaran that muslims can take white women as prostitutes? I find this appauling and wrong.

5) What do you think about people like Osama Bin Laden hiding behind their religion?


My view is that Islam is having the equivalent of a Calvinist period - complete with killings, etc. It happens from time to time in religions - the mania, the killing, the paranoia.

The key indicator for me that this is such a phase is their "us against the whole world" attitude combined with "people of our religion are apostate backsliders who should die".

It's not everyone in Islam, just as Calvinists weren't all Christians.

But there are enough of them, and killing is their game.

Are they less Muslim?


No, of course not. Interestingly enough, that particular Mosque is one of the more progressive Mosques. Men and women even pray together.

I was there yesterday afternoon.

Ah ... thought you were there today because you asked your question at 8:28 this morning.

I spoke to more than one person. They all validated the idea that Islam is a heterodoxy.

Something I've never denied. There is, however, only one way Allah told us to be Muslim. The rest is man-made and open to debate and skepticism.

This is to prevent 30 identical threads from being made.
If anyone is to create "designated threads" to prevent spamming, it'll be the mods. (no, we have no plans to do so.) Don't spam as a method of spam prevention.

right....

1) Why does islam brainwash children so when they grow up the muslim? Doesn't everyone have a choice in life?

For the same reason that parents of every other religion do the same thing- their view is right and the only way to secure heavenly rewards, so in order to save their child's soul, the parents drill them with the "only" correct belief.

2) Why are women treated as second-class citizens in islam? They don't seem to be treated equally.

For the same reason that women were treates as second-class citizens in Christian nations until very recently: The cultures were based on hunting and survival in the desert, so the strong hunting men became the most powerful. This partriarchal attitude- exacerbated by the fact that women are biologically much more suited to caring for children- has stuck in pretty much every dominating civilization to the modern day- including the US and Europe.

3) Is it me or is islam and christianity alot alike? Jesus's mother and muhammed both saw the angel gabriel and a spider helped them by covering up a cave entrance so they wouldn't be found. Is this just a coincidence?

It's not a coincidence; both were based on Judean roots. My understanding is that Muslims accept both the Old and the New Testaments as holy books (not as holy as the Qu'ran, but that's not the point), and they regard Jesus as one of God's prophets (of whom Muhammed was the last).

4) Doesn't it say in the Quaran that muslims can take white women as prostitutes? I find this appauling and wrong.

First, while I haven't read the Qu'ran, I'd be rather surprised if this was actually in there. Second, there are several lines in the Bible condoning slavery of pretty much anybody. These books were written millenia ago; they're going to regard as A-OK things that we think of as absolutely despicable.

It's basically the question: is it moral to do evil if someone tells you not to? Most religions try to avoid doing evil, whatever that consists of. Few are structured around valuing rebellion for its own sake.

Well why do we consign ourselves to Allah's definition of evil anyway? It's better to just defy him in action and in belief, even if we acknowledge that he exists anyway and is perfect and all-powerful. Our disagreement with him is a claim to power.

1) Why does islam brainwash children so when they grow up the muslim? Doesn't everyone have a choice in life?

Ok ... I'm sorry .. and this may be flame bait ... but that's the dumbest question I've ever heard in my life ...

Let me expand on that ...

I stop my child from sticking a fork in a power outlet. They don't know why, they cannot reason why it is a bad thing to insert a metal object that they hold in their salt-covered, slightly wet hand into something that discharges electrons.

Brainwash? Hardly. We protect our kids from harm in the best way we know how.

I don't let my kids eat pork. Why? Who cares why. They ask why and I simply tell them that it's because God said not to. What else am I going to tell a 5 year old?

They don't understand physics or deep philosophy or disease. As a parent, it is my job to control every move they make until it is deemed proper for them to make those decisions on their own.

If you don't believe that, then I suggest you never, ever, ever have children ... otherwise, those children will be dead by 3 on your "let them be them" attitude.

Heres a question...

Do you find the fact that the religion is unable to speak with one voice (of any sort) to be an extreme fault of the religion itself ? This is one of the most powerful plus's to Christianity... (the Pope). While he dosn't represent every Christian faith, his positions still manage to resinate through many of them, and help give the religion on a whole shape and continuity

1) IN Africa Islam and Christianity are beginning to merge, why is this so?
2) What is the deal with the supposed verse about cutting people at the necks and fingertips?
3)(this is a general religion question)I have always thought that maybe somehow the three abrahamic religions should maybe merge...Could this ever be possible?

1)Also, why do muslims pray to the east, when by tradition evil comes from the east(at least in the ot which is similar to the Qur'an)
2)Why do you pray on the rugs? Is that a way to try to keep clean?
3) Do you have similar culinary rules to judaism?

I think that is all I have...btw I am trying to learn alot more about Islam..so some links could be useful if some one could post some

To what extent is sharia supposed to be divinely inspired?

I suppose that's a question too vague to get a clear answer. I don't really need one; a bit of elaboration on the subject is what I am looking for, really.

I understand that the Qu'ran is supposed to be the direct revelation of God to the Prophet Muhammed, but is that the end of divine intervention? Is the word of Muhammed trusted in the hadiths because everything he said was divinely inspired, or merely because God choosing him to be His prophet proved that he was a great man? What about his family, his followers, etc. (I know there is a difference between Sunni and Shi'a on this point)? What about those who have interpreted sharia throughout the centuries? Are they supposed to have some divine mandate, like Rabbis in Judaism, or are they merely attempting to explain things in their own limited human fashion, and thus subject to rational criticism and argumentation?

I've got a question. It might seem irrelavent, but trust me it isn't.

Where does the word "Allah" come from? (Not the actual Allah, just the name)

I've got a question. It might seem irrelavent, but trust me it isn't.

Where does the word "Allah" come from? (Not the actual Allah, just the name)

If it is a rethorical question then you might aswell give us the anwser seeing as guessing it is a waste of cyberspace.

If it were a true question then it has as much relavance as asking where the word God comes from. The word Allah means exactily the same, it is the word for God in Arabic. It's exact meaning resemebles something in the arnge of: "I, who Is" or "I am, I exist". It resembles the title which Hebrews tend to adress God namely "Jahweh" (Excuse my faulty spelling on the matter).

Mind you, many christians in Indonesia actually call God Allah due to common practise.

Which brings me up to another point which has bothered me in this thread. I find that many questions that tackle the issue of Islam can be ascribed to other faiths aswell. Not a problem an sich yet many posters write their questions in a maner as if it's only applicable to Islam.

1)Also, why do muslims pray to the east, when by tradition evil comes from the east(at least in the ot which is similar to the Qur'an)
2)Why do you pray on the rugs? Is that a way to try to keep clean?
3) Do you have similar culinary rules to judaism?

I think that is all I have...btw I am trying to learn alot more about Islam..so some links could be useful if some one could post some

1) I would have thought this was merely 'pray towards Mecca'- ie those in Indonesia would pray to the West.

2)I would have gone with merely tradition and comfort- I doubt there is any specific religious reason.

3)I think I remember something about eating with the left hand is 'unclean' as it was to be used for... 'cleaning' certain parts of the body *ahem*

Not a Muslim/

1) IN Africa Islam and Christianity are beginning to merge, why is this so?

I don't know.

2) What is the deal with the supposed verse about cutting people at the necks and fingertips?

It was an instruction Allah gave to the Angels in how to deal with the Arab Pagan tribesmen. It has nothing to do with us.

3)(this is a general religion question)I have always thought that maybe somehow the three abrahamic religions should maybe merge...Could this ever be possible?

They already were ... in Islam. :)

1)Also, why do muslims pray to the east, when by tradition evil comes from the east(at least in the ot which is similar to the Qur'an)

Not east, but towards the Kabbah. Sometimes that could be north, south, or west of you.

2)Why do you pray on the rugs? Is that a way to try to keep clean?

Cleanliness is part of it, yep.

3) Do you have similar culinary rules to judaism?

Yep. Halal. A lot of Muslims keep kosher as well. Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_dietary_laws

Why do muslims who live in Europe think freedom of speach should only apply to them? That they have the right to mock or critizise the culture of their host country but if someone else mocks or critizises Islam the only response they get are bombthreaths and murder. (Theo van Gogh/Nylland post)

Why do muslims who live in Europe think freedom of speach should only apply to them? That they have the right to mock or critizise the culture of their host country but if someone else mocks or critizises Islam the only response they get are bombthreaths and murder. (Theo van Gogh/Nylland post)

Nice generalisation of the entire population of Muslims living in Europe. Good job.

Nice generalisation of the entire population of Muslims living in Europe. Good job.
Thank you.:)

Nice generalisation of the entire population of Muslims living in Europe. Good job.

Suppose it were 1% only. Then I'd still say that the Europeans have every right to insist that the islamic community, as long as they define themselves as a group, fix the problem - muy pronto! - or face consequences.

Suggested solution: that muslims living in Europe define themselves as Europeans first, and as Muslims second.

More I'll not say in this thread.

Is the practice of female circumcision ordered in the Quran, and why is its practice so predominant in Muslim countries?

Suppose it were 1% only. Then I'd still say that the Europeans have every right to insist that the islamic community, as long as they define themselves as a group, fix the problem - muy pronto! - or face consequences.

Suggested solution: that muslims living in Europe define themselves as Europeans first, and as Muslims second.

More I'll not say in this thread.

See Muslims in France.

Is the practice of female circumcision ordered in the Quran, and why is its practice so predominant in Muslim countries?

Depends on which scholar you ask. Quotations say more about the quoter than about the quotee.

I'd say mostly because those countries had FGM before.
There are stark limits to the amount of change a religion brings to a culture.
But most members of any religion will be quite certain that their religion mandates their cultural practises anyway.

...
'Tis an interesting trait of the big three Middle Eastern monotheistic religions- they all have a tendency to oppress other religions. The Inquisition, Protestant witch hunts, McCarthyism (which attacked atheism in addition to communism)... It seems that whenever one of the Judean religions comes to power, somebody gets screwed over. This is a trait as common to Christians and Jews as it is to Muslims; see if you can find an answer to why Jews and Christians do it, and you'll have an answer as to why Muslims do it.

Sorry for what will be a long post. But the answer to the question isn't simplistic (even supposing I get anywhere near the answer).

It's a shame Pennterra's point got lost along the way. I'm about to extend it.

Let's not forget the problems between the Sikhs and Hindus in India. Remember the Golden Temple at Amritsar in 1984? My point here isn't apportioning "blame" for that particular atrocity; it's noting that convictions strong enough to qualify as "fundamentalist"* can turn anyone at all into someone dangerous to others. They don't even have to be religious, as with Nazism, Stalinism, et al. (It wasn't religious people doing all the killing in Tiannanmen Square, it was "fundamentalist" secular politicians.)

Returning to religious convictions, it's understandable saying the problem is those Westerners/Middle Easterners whose religions get them all steamed up, but we see it that way because our education in the West is so Eurocentric, and because Europe spent an unseemly amount of time colonizing and imposing themselves on others. We don't tend to learn in our schools very much (if anything) about "fundamentalist" hostility between Buddhism and Hinduism, or Hinduism and Sikhism. We don't really look at the earlier suppression of Taoism in ancient China at certain times, nor of Buddhism at other times. Even when violence happens between sects of Buddhism (as with the murders of associates of the Dalai Lama in 1997, reported to have been carried out by a Buddhist sect that is hostile to the Dalai Lama), do we recognize its similarity to the religious violence we see growing out of the Middle East? The scale is different (for now), but the attitude driving it isn't. And, can you say "Sri Lanka"?

We really can't afford to keep making this just about religions. It's convenient for some people to use Islam or Christianity or Judaism (or any combination of them) as the whipping-boy. It certainly helps politicians of one religion when they want political support for invasions or terrorism by stirring up religious prejudice against another religion. And it's useful here in NS: I've stopped counting all the threads that see this or that religion as the cause of the problem. However, that misses out on the majority of decent and peaceful people who diligently try to live up to their religion, whatever it is, and who also could play a large part in ending the problem. It also misses out on the amazing capacity of some people to turn almost any set of ideas into a reason to hate some other people enough to want them all dead. Take religion totally out of all human culture today, and we still will have to deal with the totalitarian, "fundamentalist" mindset.

The Cold War wasn't between religions, it was between two opposing political/economic systems, one of whom sometimes appealed to religion vs atheism as a way to mobilize the troops. And it almost saw most of the "civilized" world return to the Stone Age.

If I may borrow your words, Pennterra, I'd paraphrase you and say, "If you can find an answer to why people do it, you'll have an answer as to why Jews and Christians and Muslims do it."

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
* "fundamentalism":
Two things: first, I'm using "fundamentalist" to refer to ideological madness of any kind, religious or any other. I don't see that it makes a difference what kind of belief-system it is; if we get "fundamentalistic" about it, we can get stupid about anything: politics, sports, ethnic background, geo-political boundaries, or anything else, as well as religion. If anybody knows a better word (I thought of extremist but somehow it's not quite "there" for me), I'll use it instead.

Second it's my personal opinion that the more fundamentalist a religious person gets, the less loyal he is to his own religion or to religions in general. I know there are some religions out there that only exist in "fundamentalist" form *cough"Scientology"cough* but then, are those really religions at all? I reckon that's a discussion for a separate thread.

Is the practice of female circumcision ordered in the Quran, and why is its practice so predominant in Muslim countries?

Absolutely, 100%, no. Sex, sexual intimacy, and sexual pleasure are of absolute importance to Muslims - both men and women. You'll even find it's something we actually talk about in the Mosques ... openly ... and not in a vulgar way.

It's practiced primarily in Africa and is a cultural throwback and not something that came with Islam.

Absolutely, 100%, no. Sex, sexual intimacy, and sexual pleasure are of absolute importance to Muslims - both men and women. You'll even find it's something we actually talk about in the Mosques ... openly ... and not in a vulgar way.

It's practiced primarily in Africa and is a cultural throwback and not something that came with Islam.
The problem is that it is so widely practiced now, and even local imams will insist that it IS a part of Islam that you'll never convince the people who do it that it is not part of Islam.

There was a bit on NPR a while back where they were trying to educate women about the dangers of infibulation, and the aid workers had a film that showed several other imams saying that infibulation was not required by Islam.

The film was decried by local imams as blasphemy, and while women who saw the film believed it, most men who saw it did not.

Religion is less a matter of what the authority says and more about what the people actually practice.

Sorry for what will be a long post. But the answer to the question isn't simplistic (even supposing I get anywhere near the answer).

It's a shame Pennterra's point got lost along the way. I'm about to extend it.

Let's not forget the problems between the Sikhs and Hindus in India. Remember the Golden Temple at Amritsar in 1984?

err...it is not what it looks like. Khalisthani seperatist terrorists (comprising all of less than 1% of Sikhs) stored weapons and were using the Golden Temple as a hideout. The army gave time for them to move out. They did not. The army moved in and killed them all. Eventually the Khalistani movement (sponsored by none other than that terrorist state of Pakistan to get back at us for Bangladesh) was defeated by K.P.S.Gill, a Sikh. Please read his book "Knights of falsehood" for a better picture.

One incident does not make it like hindus and sikhs have animosity towards each other. I suppose that is why the Prime Minister, the head of all three services (army, navy and airforce) are all Sikhs despite Sikhs being about 1% of the population of India.:rolleyes:

In the olden days, it was a common practice for a hindu family to give their elder son to Sikhism. People in India have multiple overlapping identities and it is not always how it looks like superficially.

err...it is not what it looks like. Khalisthani seperatist terrorists (comprising all of less than 1% of Sikhs) stored weapons and were using the Golden Temple as a hideout. The army gave time for them to move out. They did not. The army moved in and killed them all. Eventually the Khalistani movement (sponsored by none other than that terrorist state of Pakistan to get back at us for Bangladesh) was defeated by K.P.S.Gill, a Sikh. Please read his book "Knights of falsehood" for a better picture.

One incident does not make it like hindus and sikhs have animosity towards each other. I suppose that is why the Prime Minister, the head of all three services (army, navy and airforce) are all Sikhs despite Sikhs being about 1% of the population of India.:rolleyes:

In the olden days, it was a common practice for a hindu family to give their elder son to Sikhism. People in India have multiple overlapping identities and it is not always how it looks like superficially.


Let's not forget that they make great bodyguards and soliders in general.

[QUOTE=Rikkumaru]If it is a rethorical question then you might aswell give us the anwser seeing as guessing it is a waste of cyberspace.

If it were a true question then it has as much relavance as asking where the word God comes from. The word Allah means exactily the same, it is the word for God in Arabic. It's exact meaning resemebles something in the arnge of: "I, who Is" or "I am, I exist". It resembles the title which Hebrews tend to adress God namely "Jahweh" (Excuse my faulty spelling on the matter).

Mind you, many christians in Indonesia actually call God Allah due to common practise. QUOTE]

It wasn't rhetorical. But it just interests me that the names for God in both the religions come from the same root. As a linguist, one can confidently assume that they had the same root.

Why do the Sunnis and Shii'a insist on a structured leadership of the Islamic faith, when neither Allah nor Muhammed demanded or instituted such a device?

they were structured from the start... this might help explain the split of the Muslim body into Shi'a and Sunni parts:

http://www.islamfortoday.com/shia.htm

1) IN Africa Islam and Christianity are beginning to merge, why is this so?
2) What is the deal with the supposed verse about cutting people at the necks and fingertips?
3)(this is a general religion question)I have always thought that maybe somehow the three abrahamic religions should maybe merge...Could this ever be possible?

as for 1, there are similarities:

Both worship one God

Both rely on the teaching of one main prophet

Of course, one huge difference is that Christians believe that Jesus is God, in incarnate form... while, to my knowledge, Mohammed is, while exalted, just a great and revered human.

err...it is not what it looks like. Khalisthani seperatist terrorists (comprising all of less than 1% of Sikhs) stored weapons and were using the Golden Temple as a hideout. The army gave time for them to move out. They did not. The army moved in and killed them all. Eventually the Khalistani movement (sponsored by none other than that terrorist state of Pakistan to get back at us for Bangladesh) was defeated by K.P.S.Gill, a Sikh. Please read his book "Knights of falsehood" for a better picture.

One incident does not make it like hindus and sikhs have animosity towards each other. I suppose that is why the Prime Minister, the head of all three services (army, navy and airforce) are all Sikhs despite Sikhs being about 1% of the population of India.:rolleyes:

In the olden days, it was a common practice for a hindu family to give their elder son to Sikhism. People in India have multiple overlapping identities and it is not always how it looks like superficially.

I had a feeling that point would be misunderstood. Perhaps I needed to say it differently. As said at the end:
Second it's my personal opinion that the more fundamentalist a religious person gets, the less loyal he is to his own religion or to religions in general. I know there are some religions out there that only exist in "fundamentalist" form *cough"Scientology"cough* but then, are those really religions at all? I reckon that's a discussion for a separate thread.

The real religionists of a particular faith aren't the problem. The problem is with the flakey fundies who decide to disguise themselves with this or that religion.

We could probably waste a lot of time touring the world and all the places that have wars like that one, purporting to involve "religion" but really involving a group of people who use a religion as a mask. Of course the real culprits were separatist terrorists, and of course they were really only "less than 1% of Sikhs". And that's the usual pattern for this kind of thing.

None of this changes anything I said. We need to stop accusing this or that religion (or religions in general) of atrocities, and start putting the blame squarely where it belongs: the "fundamentalist", totalitarian mindset of a few people who, instead of just admitting that they have a problem, choose to pretend that they are doing it "for God". As I said already, the real problem is
...the amazing capacity of some people to turn almost any set of ideas into a reason to hate some other people enough to want them all dead. Take religion totally out of all human culture today, and we still will have to deal with the totalitarian, "fundamentalist" mindset.

I'm sorry if you thought I was attacking either Sikhs or Hindus.