NationStates Jolt Archive

Dear All NS Non-Vegetarians/Vegans,

I've noticed that there have been a couple of threads where people lash out at vegetarians and vegans. I have no problem with them lashing out at the extreme ones, but, it seems that some of the statements include the moderate ones and the ones who don't even care about animal rights.

I'm a vegetarian, but an extreme moderate. I don't eat meat simply because I hate the taste. I however enjoy fish. I know other vegetarians who are moderate but don't eat meat.

I too hate the extremists. They really piss me off and I feel they give this style of eating a bad name with their actions. Don't use them to judge those of us who simply chose to eat non-meat for reasons that are due to taste and health.

When you insult the vegetarians and vegans, ensure that you direct it to the extremists who call you evil, vile and disgusting simply because you eat meat and leave us moderates alone because we frankly don't care if you eat meat or use animals for testing.

Thank you.
~ Kryo

absolutely, im not a vegetatian, but i share your disdain for extremists on either side.

I only dislike the vegitarians that want to stop me from eating meat. So we're in agreement.


Now hold still whilst I hide these chunks of meat in you vegitarian entree'

I take the Pro-Meat stance, instead of the Anti-vegitarian stance. Keepin' it positive!

I unequivocally reserve the right to despise and criticise anyone who despises and criticises MY eating habbits.

Now hold still whilst I hide these chunks of meat in you vegitarian entree'
*blinks* Give me a break. I can touch meat still; hell, I made fun of a friend who went all girly when a piece of pepperoni touched his cheese pizza.

But, seriously, I wish people didn't always assume (I mean, even my mother, who NEVER asked why decided to be judgemental about me!)

*blinks* Give me a break. I can touch meat still; hell, I made fun of a friend who went all girly when a piece of pepperoni touched his cheese pizza.


Heh...I'd go all girly if a peice of pepperoni touched my cheese pizza.


I'm trying to go Kosher, so meat + dairy is out. Eventually, I'll even do the multiple sets of pots thing. But I'm at a place right now where that isn't feasable.

PETA eats soylent green!!!...Just kidding. What pisses me off is those people who don't believe animals are killed in the making of bread and other supposedly meat-free products...and the whole "guiltless" food trend...Just call it what it is -- tofu, meatless, vegan, vegetatian , whatever. I'm an omnivore -- I'm not going to feel guilty over my cheeseburger.

Heh...I'd go all girly if a peice of pepperoni touched my cheese pizza.


I'm trying to go Kosher, so meat + dairy is out. Eventually, I'll even do the multiple sets of pots thing. But I'm at a place right now where that isn't feasable.


I flat out don't understand the Kosher concept --what's it all about, and what's the logic behind the no meat and dairy together thing? I've been wondering about that for ages.

I've got no problem with anyone's choice to eat whatever it is they prefer, and I think I can speak for most people in this. I definitely do have a problem with anyone trying to guilt-trip me into not eating something or trying to ban what I like. Live and let live.

Sure. I don't give a shit what you eat. As long as you don't get all self-righteous and try to explain to me the 'error' of my vegetarian ways, I don't care. I don't even necessarily have a big problem with eating meat at all. I'm mostly a vegetarian because I'm disgusted with the mass-producing, factory-farming meat industry.

I flat out don't understand the Kosher concept --what's it all about, and what's the logic behind the no meat and dairy together thing? I've been wondering about that for ages.

Here's a good article on Krashkut.

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

What pisses me off is those people who don't believe animals are killed in the making of bread and other supposedly meat-free products...They're not generally killed for it though. More as collateral damage; from clearing land, pesticides etc.

On the other hand it's pet peeve of mine when people ignore that plants are alive too. If you have the proper equipment you can even hear them 'scream' if you damage them.

and the whole "guiltless" food trend...The only food that might be "guiltfree" is fruit and synthetic food. I can't think of anything else in life which is made too be eaten. And even then, if you neglect the purpose of fruit (spreading seeds), you could feel guilty about that.

Besides, food tastes better with guilt. ;)

Sure. I don't give a shit what you eat. As long as you don't get all self-righteous and try to explain to me the 'error' of my vegetarian ways, I don't care. I don't even necessarily have a big problem with eating meat at all. I'm mostly a vegetarian because I'm disgusted with the mass-producing, factory-farming meat industry.
And that's fine.

It's the animal rights people who irritate me.

I eat veggie alternatives for the taste simply because I hate the taste of meat, so I understand where you're coming from on this.

Sure. I don't give a shit what you eat. As long as you don't get all self-righteous and try to explain to me the 'error' of my vegetarian ways, I don't care. I don't even necessarily have a big problem with eating meat at all. I'm mostly a vegetarian because I'm disgusted with the mass-producing, factory-farming meat industry.
Woo Hoo.

Ditto 'cept:

Sure. I don't give a shit what you eat. As long as you don't get all self-righteous and try to explain to me the 'error' of my omnivorous ways, I don't care. I don't even necessarily have a big problem with not eating meat at all. I'm mostly a kill-your-own omnivore because I'm disgusted with the mass-producing, factory-farming meat industry.

:D

I'm only vegetarian when I have to pay for the food... except if the vegetarian option in a shop restaurant is shit.

But, I mean, think of the expense! For a crappy piece of meat I can get a decent choice of vegetarian stuff. For a decent piece of meat I can get a great choice of vegtarian stuff. For an exquisite piece of meat I can MORE exquisite vegetarian stuff. I think I may have made my point.

And the cooking pans for vegetarian food aren't left with with foul looking or smelling subtances. *shivers at the thought of bacon fat solidifying in a frying pan*

And the cooking pans for vegetarian food aren't left with with foul looking or smelling subtances. *shivers at the thought of bacon fat solidifying in a frying pan*

It doesn't solidify, it "congeals". Also, I can use bacon fat to make a candle that makes the whole house smell like breakfast, yum!

Dear All NS Non-Vegetarians/Vegans,

I've noticed that there have been a couple of threads where people lash out at vegetarians and vegans. I have no problem with them lashing out at the extreme ones, but, it seems that some of the statements include the moderate ones and the ones who don't even care about animal rights.

I'm a vegetarian, but an extreme moderate. I don't eat meat simply because I hate the taste. I however enjoy fish. I know other vegetarians who are moderate but don't eat meat.

I too hate the extremists. They really piss me off and I feel they give this style of eating a bad name with their actions. Don't use them to judge those of us who simply chose to eat non-meat for reasons that are due to taste and health.

When you insult the vegetarians and vegans, ensure that you direct it to the extremists who call you evil, vile and disgusting simply because you eat meat and leave us moderates alone because we frankly don't care if you eat meat or use animals for testing.

Thank you.
~ Kryo

If you eat fish your not a vegetarian. I don't understand why people say "i'm a vegetarian but i eat fish", that means you are NOT a vegetarian.

If you eat fish your not a vegetarian. I don't understand why people say "i'm a vegetarian but i eat fish", that means you are NOT a vegetarian.

Oh good, a member of the commitee of People Who Can Tell You Who or What You Are!

Thank you for pointing out the error of their ways! Silly fools think they can define themselves or create their own identity.

If you eat fish your not a vegetarian. I don't understand why people say "i'm a vegetarian but i eat fish", that means you are NOT a vegetarian.


Ahhh... pretty much the reason why the rest of us don't trust your lot, that attitude of yours.

And that's fine.

It's the animal rights people who irritate me.

I eat veggie alternatives for the taste simply because I hate the taste of meat, so I understand where you're coming from on this.

Well, I'm all for animal rights. I think our society needs to become a lot more responsible when it comes to our meat industry. I mean, I don't advocate banning the eating of meat, though I personally find the practice distasteful, but like I said, I find the way we go about getting our meat these days to be irresponsible, wasteful and in some cases (like the live animal trade issue that came to a head here in Australia recently), needlessly cruel. For those reasons, I refuse to personally support it with my money. And I also really can't stand the taste and texture. Ew.

Woo Hoo.

Ditto 'cept:

Sure. I don't give a shit what you eat. As long as you don't get all self-righteous and try to explain to me the 'error' of my omnivorous ways, I don't care. I don't even necessarily have a big problem with not eating meat at all. I'm mostly a kill-your-own omnivore because I'm disgusted with the mass-producing, factory-farming meat industry.

Yeah, I do my best not to preach at people about it unless they ask "Why are you a vegetarian?" or something. If they do, I'll give them my reasons. If you go out and hunt your own food, and you're responsible about it (ie. make a kill as quick as you can and aren't wasteful), more power to you. I have a huge problem with people who inflict needless suffering because they get off on it, but in my experience, most hunters aren't like that. When it comes to hunting/fishing, I like the saying "Take what you need; use what you take."

If you eat fish your not a vegetarian. I don't understand why people say "i'm a vegetarian but i eat fish", that means you are NOT a vegetarian.What would you call them then? It's not like they claim to be herbivores, now that would conflict with eating fish.

Ahhh... pretty much the reason why the rest of us don't trust your lot, that attitude of yours.

I don't trust vegitarians, because vegitarians are like peas. I don't trust peas.

It doesn't solidify, it "congeals". Also, I can use bacon fat to make a candle that makes the whole house smell like breakfast, yum!*screams in agony*

well... bacon is nice... but I never eat it all before it goes off.

Smoked or unsmoked? I don't see the point in unsmoked bacon, it's like skimmed milk - pointless.

What is untrustworty about that? It is true a vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat and fish is a type of meat! Read it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian

I don't trust vegitarians, because vegitarians are like peas. I don't trust peas.But vegetarians EAT peas; are you saying they're like canibals?

What would you call them then? It's not like they claim to be herbivores, now that would conflict with eating fish.
They are omnivores, they eat meat and vegetables.

But vegetarians EAT peas; are you saying they're like canibals?

I'm saying...they're like peas.

What is untrustworty about that? It is true a vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat and fish is a type of meat! Read it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VegetarianI'm not usually one to disagree with wikipedia, however the dictionary seems to disagree..

vegetarianism (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vegetarianism):
"The practice of subsisting on a diet composed primarily or wholly of vegetables, grains, fruits, nuts, and seeds, with or without eggs and dairy products."

It does not necessarily entirely exclude things other than what's listed. Specifically fish, or even some (other) meat.

They are omnivores, they eat meat and vegetables.Yes, so?
herbivore/omnivore/carnivore is a different classification from vegetarian/vegan/non-vegetarian (in no particular order)

Even someone who only eats fruit is still an omnivore, because being an omnivore is a trait of the human species, not of your individual diet.

I'm not usually one to disagree with wikipedia, however the dictionary seems to disagree..

vegetarianism:
"The practice of subsisting on a diet composed primarily or wholly of vegetables, grains, fruits, nuts, and seeds, with or without eggs and dairy products."

It does not necessarily entirely exclude things other than what's listed. Specifically fish, or even some (other) meat.
You will find that in pretty much every encyclopedia it says the same.
My edition of Encarta says: Vegetarianism, belief in and practice of eating foods obtained exclusively from the vegetable kingdom, and hence of abstaining from meat and other animal foods. Nonvegetable food is usually considered by vegetarians to include fowl and fish
The Oxford Dictionary defines a vegetarian as: a person who on principle abstains from animal food; esp. one who avoids meat but will consume dairy products and eggs

Nonvegetable food is usually considered by vegetarians to include fowl and fish

Anyway..
That still leaves the question what we should call them, to make the distinction between fisheating 'vegetarians' and 'real' vegetarians. I'm not opposed to making such a distinction, and naming them apropriately (it's just most 'vegetarians' I know of still eat fish, so that's what it generally means in my personal lexicon)

Yes, so?
herbivore/omnivore/carnivore is a different classification from vegetarian/vegan/non-vegetarian (in no particular order)

Even someone who only eats fruit is still an omnivore, because being an omnivore is a trait of the human species, not of your individual diet.
Being an omnivore is not a trait of the human species, many other animals are.
Examples: pigs, bears, primates, mice, rats, squirrels, chipmunks, raccoons, foxes, gulls, chickens, and crows.

Anyway..
That still leaves the question what we should call them, to make the distinction between fisheating 'vegetarians' and 'real' vegetarians. I'm not opposed to making such a distinction, and naming them apropriately (it's just most 'vegetarians' I know of still eat fish, so that's what it generally means in my personal lexicon)
I don't really care what to call them, it just bugs me that they are lumped together with all vegetarians.

*blinks* Give me a break. I can touch meat still; hell, I made fun of a friend who went all girly when a piece of pepperoni touched his cheese pizza.
How is that "meat-positive"?

Anyway, it's like that in my class as well. One of my friends is a feared combination - Vegetarian and feminist! At least, that's how most people react, but I agree with you, it's only the extremists who make it sound bad.

Edit: Damm, sorry, I forgot. Your peperonis aren't the same kind as ours...

One of my friends here (who is an avid meat-eater), wrote this once, and I find it quite agreeable.

A Hunters Creed

May I never partake lightly or thanklessly of the life that was taken so that mine might persist.
May I never kill without true cause.
May I never kill in anger or emnity.
May I never think myself better than my prey.
May I never forget that someone died for me.
May I always know that I am responsible for those who are slain for my benefit.
May I always make the kill swift and clean.
May I always make substitution when I can.
May I always treat my prey with respect.
May I always remember that I too might one day be hunted.

Dear All NS Non-Vegetarians/Vegans,

I've noticed that there have been a couple of threads where people lash out at vegetarians and vegans. I have no problem with them lashing out at the extreme ones, but, it seems that some of the statements include the moderate ones and the ones who don't even care about animal rights.

I'm a vegetarian, but an extreme moderate. I don't eat meat simply because I hate the taste. I however enjoy fish. I know other vegetarians who are moderate but don't eat meat.

I too hate the extremists. They really piss me off and I feel they give this style of eating a bad name with their actions. Don't use them to judge those of us who simply chose to eat non-meat for reasons that are due to taste and health.

When you insult the vegetarians and vegans, ensure that you direct it to the extremists who call you evil, vile and disgusting simply because you eat meat and leave us moderates alone because we frankly don't care if you eat meat or use animals for testing.

Thank you.
~ Kryo
Sadly, Jane Fonda is a vegetarian, so all vegetarians and vegans are part of the evil liberal hive mind (just like Hitler another liberal socialist) and so fair game.

Dear All NS Non-Vegetarians/Vegans,

I've noticed that there have been a couple of threads where people lash out at vegetarians and vegans. I have no problem with them lashing out at the extreme ones, but, it seems that some of the statements include the moderate ones and the ones who don't even care about animal rights.

I'm a vegetarian, but an extreme moderate. I don't eat meat simply because I hate the taste. I however enjoy fish. I know other vegetarians who are moderate but don't eat meat.

I too hate the extremists. They really piss me off and I feel they give this style of eating a bad name with their actions. Don't use them to judge those of us who simply chose to eat non-meat for reasons that are due to taste and health.

When you insult the vegetarians and vegans, ensure that you direct it to the extremists who call you evil, vile and disgusting simply because you eat meat and leave us moderates alone because we frankly don't care if you eat meat or use animals for testing.

Thank you.
~ Kryo
I only just noticed what is said at the end. Why do some vegetarians have problems with animal testing for medical research. I don't get how you can be so compassionate about animal welfare but you won't give a fellow human a chance to have a possibly life saving medicine.

I only just noticed what is said at the end. Why do some vegetarians have problems with animal testing for medical research. I don't get how you can be so compassionate about animal welfare but you won't give a fellow human a chance to have a possibly life saving medicine.
I have a problem with that one myself, but fortunately it only tends to be the extremists Kyozerkia's on about (and PETA, of course) who object to that. Most of the vegetarians I've ever met take a more pragmatic approach to that.

I only just noticed what is said at the end. Why do some vegetarians have problems with animal testing for medical research. I don't get how you can be so compassionate about animal welfare but you won't give a fellow human a chance to have a possibly life saving medicine.

I would rather we didn't need to use animals for medical research, but I'm okay with it for as long as it needs to be done. Until such time as we can effectively clone the human tissues and organs appropriate for whatever is being tested, medical testing on animals sadly remains a necessary evil.

One of my friends here (who is an avid meat-eater), wrote this once, and I find it quite agreeable.
That quote (well, one very like it) is pasted in my Gun Cabinet.

I wish more Hunters would memorize it. :(

I only just noticed what is said at the end. Why do some vegetarians have problems with animal testing for medical research. I don't get how you can be so compassionate about animal welfare but you won't give a fellow human a chance to have a possibly life saving medicine.

you know why, becuase there many other ways to test whether a product is safe, or relatively save. The thing is animals are used a lot, when half the time
the product is forgotten about for no apparent reason, there go all those mice, guineapigs, chimpanzees...etc. I don't like animal testing because of that, if it was a little more compassionate towards the animals, i wouldn't hate it so much.

I still eat my meat, as long as its basic meat, not something strange like a kangaroo or a cat or dog or camel or something like that, that, i cannot handle ( I know, strange, but that's who i am) If i ever had to be a vegetarian for some weird reason, i don't think i would mind too much, i could live with it

Being an omnivore is not a trait of the human species, many other animals are.
Examples: pigs, bears, primates, mice, rats, squirrels, chipmunks, raccoons, foxes, gulls, chickens, and crows.I did not say it was a trait exclusive to the human species, did I.. So I didn't imply in any way they were the only species that has that trait.
*sigh*

I don't really care what to call them, it just bugs me that they are lumped together with all vegetarians.Without an alternative, you don't have no justification to complain.

I would rather we didn't need to use animals for medical research, but I'm okay with it for as long as it needs to be done. Until such time as we can effectively clone the human tissues and organs appropriate for whatever is being tested, medical testing on animals sadly remains a necessary evil.
We could do that now, but the genetic material would need to be patched into animals (most likely pigs, as in the transplant scheme that was abandoned for similar reasons) and neither the religious right nor the elements of the animal rights lobby who don't have a bleeding clue about ecology (the sort of people who release the livestock from a mink farm into the wild without pondering what impact that's going to have on any local farmland or wildlife) are going to stand for that.

Ok here is an alternative; only fish omnivore or fish+vegetable+dairy product eating person.

We could do that now, but the genetic material would need to be patched into animals (most likely pigs, as in the transplant scheme that was abandoned for similar reasons) and neither the religious right nor the elements of the animal rights lobby who don't have a bleeding clue about ecology (the sort of people who release the livestock from a mink farm into the wild without pondering what impact that's going to have on any local farmland or wildlife) are going to stand for that.
Your right, i don't get why activists try and improve animals lives by freeing them into habitats where they kill loads of other animals.

Omnivore here. We have different teeth for a reason. And killing things is fun.

Anyhow, my only problem are the vegans that can't bother to eat properly, and are thus always sick, pale, skinny, and whining about it. I usually throw a steak at them and scream, "EAT SOME MEAT! EAT A DEAD ANIMAL! ITS YOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT!"

And, so forth. :p

We could do that now, but the genetic material would need to be patched into animals (most likely pigs, as in the transplant scheme that was abandoned for similar reasons) and neither the religious right nor the elements of the animal rights lobby who don't have a bleeding clue about ecology (the sort of people who release the livestock from a mink farm into the wild without pondering what impact that's going to have on any local farmland or wildlife) are going to stand for that.

Using animals for it or using animals with human bits for it aren't really different options, you know? I meant that until we could clone the tissues and sustain them artificially for long enough to do the testing. Maybe even to the point were we could create "blank" human bodies for this sort of thing, but there are probably all sorts of ethical issues with that and religious right would go nuts.

As for the mink farms (and similar)... It's just one of those practices I really dislike and, in my opnion, they shouldn't really be there in the first place. It's just wasteful and arrogant. Releasing them into the wild, however, is fucking stupid. Not only do they fuck up the surrounding environment, but they're not being done a favour. They don't know how to survive in the wild.

I'm vegan who is progressing toward Jain.

People eat what they eat, I'm still alive so if you got ill simon says STFU.

I tend to veiw raw flesh eaters as perhaps a little issued. But if ya like murdering things then maybe I shouldn't harp on ya.

I tend to veiw raw flesh eaters as perhaps a little issued.
Are you saying that my ten-year-old raw pickled fish gives me issues?! Those are fightin' words where I come from boy! :p

The only thing that bothers me is people who try to ban foods, of any kind.

Right now in my state there is a proposal getting on the ballot to ban Foie Gras, one of the most amazing things to eat in the entire world, because those who support it say it's cruelty to animals. The problem is that the ducks that produce Foie Gras are treated and, obviously, fed better than the average chicken you find in the store, which is still a damn sight better than the practices used in vegitable farming in this country.

Did you know that the average tomato in your local produce section has been exposed to radiation in order to redden it? Essentially, most tomatoes that you buy at the store aren't even ripe, but have been turned red by radioactive gas. This kind of thing it replete throughout the farming industry... That I even call it an industry, as it has now become, is also a travesty.

For something that is essential to supporting life, food is treated horribly by humans.

Also, if your not afraid of the meats you buy at the store, watch this (http://www.themeatrix.com/)...

Vegetarianism is perfectly A-OK with me. I'd become an ethical vegetarian myself if it weren't for one small obstruction: I like eating meat.

Did you know that the average tomato in your local produce section has been exposed to radiation in order to redden it? Essentially, most tomatoes that you buy at the store aren't even ripe, but have been turned red by radioactive gas. This kind of thing it replete throughout the farming industry... That I even call it an industry, as it has now become, is also a travesty.

I was under the impression that that is mostly for sanitary reasons, to kill off insects, etc. I haven't heard of it being used to ripen fruit before.

Even so, we're perfectly happy with shoving things in the microwave, so...I don't really see the problem.

I was under the impression that that is mostly for sanitary reasons, to kill off insects, etc. I haven't heard of it being used to ripen fruit before.

Even so, we're perfectly happy with shoving things in the microwave, so...I don't really see the problem.

I don't use one, I get enough radiation from my television, cell phone, computer monitor, overhead powerlines, and so on. I'm also lucky enough to live very near a large number of small farms right now. Some are even closer than the local supermarket. Buying stuff straight from the farmer is really cool, you get to see where things were grown, what kind of practices they use, and the food actually tastes better. It's amazing how different a farm fresh egg tastes, same thing with veggies and fruit.

I'm not saying that everyone should run out right now and only buy foods from family farms. But, if your city/town/whatever has a farmer's market, try it out, the things you find will assuredly be of higher quality, and the prices will be equivalent, if not actually cheaper in some cases.

Using animals for it or using animals with human bits for it aren't really different options, you know? I meant that until we could clone the tissues and sustain them artificially for long enough to do the testing. Maybe even to the point were we could create "blank" human bodies for this sort of thing, but there are probably all sorts of ethical issues with that and religious right would go nuts.
Apart from growing the organs inside animals, growing a whole human body is the only other way of cloning human organs for transplants or research. (It isn't possible to grow organs independantly of the rest of a host body.) I find it extraordinary that people feel patching human genetic material into pigs is less ethical than this would be.

As for the mink farms (and similar)... It's just one of those practices I really dislike and, in my opnion, they shouldn't really be there in the first place. It's just wasteful and arrogant. Releasing them into the wild, however, is fucking stupid. Not only do they fuck up the surrounding environment, but they're not being done a favour. They don't know how to survive in the wild.
There's a particularly good story that about ten years ago a branch of the ALF knocked over a research where beagles were being used in tests on lung cancer. After removing all of the livestock from said lab, they were dumped by the side of the M1, rather in the manner of an irresponsible pet owner who got a dog for Christmas come early January, except in that case the dog isn't gasping for a smoke as well.
This sort of thing causes far more harm than good.

Apart from growing the organs inside animals, growing a whole human body is the only other way of cloning human organs for transplants or research. (It isn't possible to grow organs independantly of the rest of a host body.) I find it extraordinary that people feel patching human genetic material into pigs is less ethical than this would be.


Ahh, not possible YET! It's only a matter of time, I bet. But really, what I mean is that until we can do the testing without having to use animals, then using animals is necessary. Pretty simple, really.


There's a particularly good story that about ten years ago a branch of the ALF knocked over a research where beagles were being used in tests on lung cancer. After removing all of the livestock from said lab, they were dumped by the side of the M1, rather in the manner of an irresponsible pet owner who got a dog for Christmas come early January, except in that case the dog isn't gasping for a smoke as well.
This sort of thing causes far more harm than good.

Yes, it really does. People need to consider the actual consequences of their actions, but most people don't unfortunately, because most people are idiots.

:p sad but true most people; most people are stupid.

Is there a known position where one decideds only to consume 'ethicaly' produced meat.Ie all the meat I eat comes from farms in my area and through a local butcher.Free range chickens instead of chickens raised from chick to hen in 5 days.Pork not produced in mass piggeries.Animals that are killed swiftly and don't have to witness others of the species being slaughtered on a slaughter line? Ethically produced meats are in my opinion pretty humane and generally taste a hell of alot better than that mass produced chemically enhanced crap.On a side note anyone seen the inside of a large piggery of chicken battery.Sick shit people.

Vegan bashing?

Until I see a group of cross a pitch fork wielding vegans march to the capital I'm not going to worry about them unless of course they start commiting sacralidge on Green Eggs and Ham books by burning them or something.

Are you saying that my ten-year-old raw pickled fish gives me issues?! Those are fightin' words where I come from boy! :p


I think people should be able to eat what they would like but, I tend to place an overall identity on the qualities of the actions I take rather then just the direct shortterm effects. I was thinking that line might be a little harsh too. It is understandable that many people live in the shroud of a mortal and limited reality, as it is understandable that many individuals see the physical life as what is worth while rather than the overall ideals of ones own existance. The Jains beleive that living things have Jiva and that we are to seek the freedom of the jiva so they are not tortured (like soul or spirit), many religions fast.

Anyway, in some respects it may give you issues, but you are to decide your own life and what it means for yourself. I think in the end what we interact with teaches us what we value. I tend to see the physical life as secondary to the emotional life but when considering pure activity it is the overall "ambiance and focused universal stochasm" that tells us if a fish prefers to be caught from the water and to become one with you or if it prefers to live it's life then die by another environmental causations, biodegrade then be taken up by the seafloor which grows plants and helps the life cycle. Everything is connected, it is just where the spirit desires for it's material shell to be.

For myself, ........................... esentially I value the companionship of nature more than the unhindered short term advance of physical nature. I still take crops from plants.. but I don't take crops from animals.. I am questionable about this.. I am geussing that if a mares caf/colt naturally dies then would it seek to provide it's milk to something else. I heard of cross species feeding. Likewise is a sheep thankful to have it's hair sheered in the hot summer? Or is taking a bone from a dead animals resting place to make a tool, uncalled for, is a bone even living in the respect of having Jiva or has the Jiva left. These are all things to consider.

It is something to ponder


You may be issued for my beleif but you are 100% commited to your own.