NationStates Jolt Archive

Clicky (http://www.natashatynes.org/newswire/2005/12/row_deepens_ove.html)

No, I have not seen the pictures, but c'mon, how bad can they possibly be?
Someone takes religion way too seriously. Get a life. They even death-threatend swedes, who has nothing to do with it whatsoever!

That is pretty silly from an outsider's perspective, but one's perspective can be very different when you feel that your community is being attacked.
People become hypersensetive when they are afraid and in a minority situation, and that's understandable. That said, it doesn't justify advocationg cencosrship.

I've seen them, or at least some of them...

Pretty mundane by western standards but that's not where the controversy stems from.

In Islam physical depictions, images of any type, of the prophet Mohamed are prohibited. It's not the content, but the fact that they are images of Mohamed that spark the outrage.

My understanding is that making an artistic portrayal of Muhammed is a vile sin in Islam, equivalent to... Hmm... Burning a portrayal of the baby Jesus in effigy, for example. I think it's somewhat understandable that they're angry.

No, the title should be, proof religious zealots have no sense of humor.

My understanding is that making an artistic portrayal of Muhammed is a vile sin in Islam, equivalent to... Hmm... Burning a portrayal of the baby Jesus in effigy, for example. I think it's somewhat understandable that they're angry.

Understandable? You can burn a picture of whatever you want as far as I'm concerned. What does that make me? I guess I'm just more human than all you fuckers. Burning paper means you are burning dead trees; get over it. I am sick of people putting material shit over the lives of real human people.

I think I will boycott Danish goods myself.
I might copy the cartoons and take them to the Islamic Center and ask them to Boycott, maybe the UNited Methodists too, they seem to be very inclusive.

The fact of the matter we defend the rights of half wit dullards to be safe from the occasional religious who might wish for their child to allowed some reasonable excercise of thier faith, but when a people who are being ostricized by the global community by the actions of the media and the West because of the radical actions of fanatical zealots we shrug our shoulders and say get sense of humor.

Piss on that.

Western society is too one sided, the apathetic approach of Eurocentric Neo-Hedonist scum-f*cks who see nothing but humor in defacing a culture then cry foul when a fuss is made over make me sick.

But keep laughing and pointing---a continued lack of solidarity is what this world needs.

But they are the backwards ones right.

No need to use vulgarities or insult others. Pretty unconstructive and doesnt enforce your point much.

Fact remains that sometimes people are insensitive with their creative expression and sometimes people overreact to it.

This article seems to be a combination of both.

Understandable? You can burn a picture of whatever you want as far as I'm concerned. What does that make me? I guess I'm just more human than all you fuckers. Burning paper means you are burning dead trees; get over it. I am sick of people putting material shit over the lives of real human people.
You mean like you are doing.

The value of some abstract cartoon versus the faith of over a billion people, save your self rightegeous indignation for the school yard over file sharing litigation dont act like you have any concept of giving a damn about your fellow man. The ought billion muslims dont follow your line of thinking so their wrong, how very Humane of you.

No need to use vulgarities or insult others. Pretty unconstructive and doesnt enforce your point much.

Fact remains that sometimes people are insensitive with their creative expression and sometimes people overreact to it.

This article seems to be a combination of both.
It was generalization, but point taken.

Western society is too one sided, the apathetic approach of Eurocentric Neo-Hedonist scum-f*cks who see nothing but humor in defacing a culture then cry foul when a fuss is made over make me sick.

But keep laughing and pointing---a continued lack of solidarity is what this world needs.

But they are the backwards ones right.
Yes they are, as it happens - Muslim theology belongs in the Middle Ages.

If printing cartoons of Muhammad is defacing Islamic culture, then attempting to deny people the right to say and draw what they like is defacing the Western liberal culture of free speech - which is much more dangerous to us all, IMHO. Where will this appeasement end in the name of "solidarity"? When western women are required to cover themselves from head to toe, and public drinking of alcohol is banned, in order to avoid offending Muslims? There is a basic incompatibility between fundamentalist Islam and Western liberalism, and there can never be true solidarity between them (just as there could never be solidarity between medieval Christianity and modern liberalism).

We cannot allow free speech to be trampled on, but a consequence of it is that others will say and publish things you don't like. As individuals, we have the option not to listen to or read what they say, but not to dictate what they do within their own spheres.

There are these things called "freedom of speech" and "freedom of the press," and I believe they have both in Denmark (correct me if I'm wrong). You can say anything you want, even if it offends someone, but anybody else also can, even if it offends you.

In other words, you're not special. These guys need to accept the fact that the Danish government wasn't lying, they really can't tell newspapers what to print and what not to.

I dont understand how anyone can defend the muslim people who are calling for the deaths of the people who work at the paper. Ok boycott Denmark, Saudi Arabia closed its embassy, but to say people should die because they dont share your faith? It seems OTT to me.

In other words, you're not special. These guys need to accept the fact that the Danish government wasn't lying, they really can't tell newspapers what to print and what not to.
And really, why would they want to?

Yes they are, as it happens - Muslim theology belongs in the Middle Ages.

If printing cartoons of Muhammad is defacing Islamic culture, then attempting to deny people the right to say and draw what they like is defacing the Western liberal culture of free speech - which is much more dangerous to us all, IMHO. Where will this appeasement end in the name of "solidarity"? When western women are required to cover themselves from head to toe, and public drinking of alcohol is banned, in order to avoid offending Muslims? There is a basic incompatibility between fundamentalist Islam and Western liberalism, and there can never be true solidarity between them (just as there could never be solidarity between medieval Christianity and modern liberalism).

We cannot allow free speech to be trampled on, but a consequence of it is that others will say and publish things you don't like. As individuals, we have the option not to listen to or read what they say, but not to dictate what they do within their own spheres.

all valid points.

now if a muslim burned a cartoon or an image of christ,or whatever...and pat robertson went frothing at the mouth and called for a jihad against muslims...he would be what?a fanatic,an idealogue...told to get over it..cause they have the right to free speech...what..really,i am decidely non religous because of this insane crap..but tell me please..why is pat robertscum villafied for his ridiculous statements/behaviours...yet the muslims are 10x worse and everyone walks on eggshells?

appeasement comes to mind,as does cowardice in the face of someone who wants to destroy your way of life,so appease and they will leave you alone,totally cowardly.

again,i am decidely non religous,but when pat goes and spouts off..it is just plain silly and written off,when these total fuckin lunatics go on their murderous diatribes(which they seem to back up,unlike the goofy christians..you know..the gay teletubby crap)all the enlightened westeners all say..geez..gotta respect their religion(even though they want you dead)but when some goofball tard like pat says something..all the handwringers squirm and say how ghastly...pathetic!

or is it just cause..and i'm just spitballing here..because the christian thing is associated with america?

forget all the catholic charities..the girl they are gonna kill over their that was trying to help them,since it is partly associated with america...thats cool..cause america sucks..but muslims lopping off heads,and there contribution to charity is...hmmm...money for bombs..it is somehow a noble fight they ae fighting.

the muslim fanatics chop off heads...well they are reacting to the imperial americans.respect there peacefull culture,how dare you call them animals.

we react to that behaviour,we are bad(remember 911)and our fundies are villafied for being against homosexuals and whatever the silly nonsense gets them all worked up...i dont see american religous folk cuttin off heads.

but somehow these insane fucks get a pass with the crowd...sickenly obvious bullshit,double standard...and lacking any logic for civilized people.

i can only surmise that everyone just hates america so much(or is jealous...the big kid with the porshe)that evil fucks get a pas as long as americans get knocked down a peg...truly sad and absolutely schoolyard.

everyone loves to knock someone off the top of the hill,just would be nice if it was because they were better,instead of middle age insane,with our so called friends secretly clapping in the background.
everyone loves a winner to a point,then everyone secretly roots for them to fall,always been that way,always will be.
just be carefull what you wish for,and yes i am well aware america aint perfect..name me one country in the history of the world that was,and tell me a fundy run alquida world would be better.grab your burkas ladies..no more hiphuggers for you,or the tolerant religion of peace will stone you to death,oh,and dont dare be raped..you know..dishonors the family and all...stoning again(the bad kind)


sometimes i wish i was president,i would seal the borders,cut off all aid to everyone(you all fuckin hate us anyhow)and if you want to trade with us and be friends..great..if not...go build a mud hut.

rant off

just sick of the hypocritical double standard i constantly read/see!

And really, why would they want to?

I have no idea, myself. It would make more work for them. And nobody wants that. They need to import some chill pills.

And to the muslims living in Denmark who protested: Don't buy the papers that printed the cartoons, or if you simply can't stand the thought that someone might be making fun of your religion... leave Denmark. Nobody's forcing you to stay. You can go to Saudi Arabia where nobody will dare make fun of your religion.

Muslims seem to be thinking, that because they have been told that theirs is the one true faith (its not. Almost ll religions say that they are the one true faith. This does not make it true), that they can dictate the actions of a soveriegn nation, not bound by Islmaic law.

Islam: Get over yourself. God commands it, and the prophet agrees.

Well at the very least we should be glad their not burning a copy of Jennifer Government and discrediting ns, that really would be a crime...

I'm not really eager to jump into this particular fray, as I already spent enough time keeping out of discussions regarding this whole mess on other forums. But as a Muslim perhaps I should help provide a little insight as to why so many people got pissed because of those cartoons.

Muslims are supposed to think of God and Mohammed (PBUH) in an entirely spiritual form, not in any form of physical personification.

The reason why any drawings or such of them are considered annoying at the least, and gravely offensive at most to the majority of Muslims is because the mind will automatically associate said images, no matter how humorous or satirical they're supposed to be, to Allah and Mohammed. And thus, every time one prays or hears of the name of Allah or Mohammed mentioned, the image that will be conjured up in their mind's eye won't be of a formless spirit, but of a crude cartoon.

It's a bit more deep than that, but not exactly easy to put into words :(

And just to be clear, not every damn Muslim in the world is calling for the heads of the caricaturists or finds the drawings horrifying, I find them tasteless at worst.

Huh. I always thought that the Prophet was never portrayed because of iconoclasm at the time. (the destruction of images of the Lord/Allah and the Prophet because of the whole not worshiping idols business.)

Learn something new every day.

http://www.jp.dk/meninger/ncartikel:aid=3527646

I don't think it's a suprise that I'm from Denmark. But we have a right to print whatever we want! If they don't like it, then tough luck! If they drew our prime minister as a pig on stakes on fire, then we wouldn't care at all... But noooo, you just HAD to burn our flag and ignore every attempt at making a reasonable dialog between us... As far as I'm concerned, the middle east have just lost the last bit of dignity it had left... Noone... NOONE burns our flag, you damn pork-rejecting, sandhugging religious bastards!

I don't think it's a suprise that I'm from Denmark. But we have a right to print whatever we want! If they don't like it, then tough luck! If they drew our prime minister as a pig on stakes on fire, then we wouldn't care at all... But noooo, you just HAD to burn our flag and ignore every attempt at making a reasonable dialog between us... As far as I'm concerned, the middle east have just lost the last bit of dignity it had left... Noone... NOONE burns our flag, you damn pork-rejecting, sandhugging religious bastards!

Tag dog og slap af din skide nationalist. Det er bare et flag.

I'm not really eager to jump into this particular fray, as I already spent enough time keeping out of discussions regarding this whole mess on other forums. But as a Muslim perhaps I should help provide a little insight as to why so many people got pissed because of those cartoons.

Muslims are supposed to think of God and Mohammed (PBUH) in an entirely spiritual form, not in any form of physical personification.

The reason why any drawings or such of them are considered annoying at the least, and gravely offensive at most to the majority of Muslims is because the mind will automatically associate said images, no matter how humorous or satirical they're supposed to be, to Allah and Mohammed. And thus, every time one prays or hears of the name of Allah or Mohammed mentioned, the image that will be conjured up in their mind's eye won't be of a formless spirit, but of a crude cartoon.

It's a bit more deep than that, but not exactly easy to put into words :(

And just to be clear, not every damn Muslim in the world is calling for the heads of the caricaturists or finds the drawings horrifying, I find them tasteless at worst.

Hmm... from what i've read they were trying to see how far they could go. I think they pretty much found out where people stopped accepting it.

Still, the nations boycotting Denmark shouldn't be blaming the Danish government or people, but rather the newspaper itself. Since it's an independent newspaper, they can just call on people to boycott it or write to it complaining about the distastefulness of the images. There are plenty of ways to go about hurting this newspaper, heck, you could probably sue them for injuries, or at the very least, try.

Anyway, it does seem as if the newspaper is trying to apologise for the images, while maintaining it's right to publish them, as they were in no way meant to insult. Hmm. I actually wonder if the intention, as it's been portrayed, was to push the boundaries a bit until someone did get insulted. I don't think they ever expected this kind of reaction though.

The value of some abstract cartoon versus the faith of over a billion people, save your self rightegeous indignation for the school yard over file sharing litigation dont act like you have any concept of giving a damn about your fellow man. The ought billion muslims dont follow your line of thinking so their wrong, how very Humane of you.
If a few cartoons could threaten the faith of a billion people, it wouldn't be much of a faith!

Muslims don't follow my line of thinking, and nor do Christians, so in my eyes they're wrong. There's nothing inhumane about that. But they have the right to be wrong, along with a moral obligation to recognize the right of me (and the Danish cartoonist) to be wrong too (in their eyes).

I think that the world would be much more peaceful if we could find a happy medium that was not offensive to anyone; however, some people just tend to be selfish of their expectations.

We must remember though that Judeo holy book which JudeoChristian Islam draws from states that the almighty says not to worship Idols. Islam of course the religions tend to have slightly different draw points.

I think that finding peace is what we strive for, of course there is a level of respect such as not burning another persons flag, or using the pope as a dart board image. Much like drawing a mustache on a campaign sign etc..

Many individuals do have a sense of humour but I think that there is a difference between running into a mass and yelling 'Jesus was a homo' or going into a Synagog and saying ' Anyone for a shower?' or going into a mosque and saing 'Mohommad was a pussy' not only might these be untrue but they may be offensive, so to as standing infront of the whitehouse and starting an american flag on fire and screaming "Down with america, Free SADAM!!!' or stading outside bukingham palace and .. anyway.. the point is that some people 'especially religions and states (states) tend to be fundamental, I think it is laregely universal... but when we don't care about anything we may find peace.
As for comedy, I think that to some extent it may be humourous but you have to consider everyone, or just not care about anything, other then the joke that is created by others seriousness abou things.. that is humour in many ways, playing off the common and bland to create the exception and entertaining.


===
EDIT
what I'm wondering is how do they know what he looks like?

Tag dog og slap af din skide nationalist. Det er bare et flag.

Just a flag? Who are you working for? The Norwegian-Swedish coalition? The Germans? Dannebrog stands for the military might Denmark stands for... Although our whiny government has been slacking it lately... Damn Dansk Folkeparti and Venstre... Vote Enhedslisten!

Just a flag? Who are you working for? The Norwegian-Swedish coalition? The Germans? Dannebrog stands for the military might Denmark stands for... Although our whiny government has been slacking it lately... Damn Dansk Folkeparti and Venstre... Vote Enhedslisten!

Ehm no, but seeing first hand what nationalism does, I fully disagree with it and I don't want to be drafted just to get sent off somewhere because you have some deathwish, that claims that Denmark's flag is somehow worth dying for.

I have no idea, myself. It would make more work for them. And nobody wants that. They need to import some chill pills.

And to the muslims living in Denmark who protested: Don't buy the papers that printed the cartoons, or if you simply can't stand the thought that someone might be making fun of your religion... leave Denmark. Nobody's forcing you to stay. You can go to Saudi Arabia where nobody will dare make fun of your religion.

wow...common sense...ty

Because you have some deathwish, that claims that Denmark's flag is somehow worth dying for.

Heh... It's not just the flag... We were once one of the most powerful nations on Earth, but all those sneaky bastards tricked us, and made us lose so much of what we once were... I'd say it's time to take it back! With interests!

Heh... It's not just the flag... We were once one of the most powerful nations on Earth, but all those sneaky bastards tricked us, and made us lose so much of what we once were... I'd say it's time to take it back! With interests!

It is just a flag, we don't have the original anymore because it was bombed and burned and we were once the most powerful maybe, but then we allied ourselves with Napoleon and Britain decided to destroy our fleet.

Now though, we have something else that beats military might: Some of the best engineers and scientists, not to mention that for the size of our country, we're exceptionally good at providing aid and assistance. We have little to fear, because nobody fears us and nobody wants us all dead...

...well, not Enough and not Yet.

We have little to fear, because nobody fears us and nobody wants us all dead...

...well, not Enough and not Yet.

That's the reason we should have a six digits number of infantry... north korea could hold off the americans, but we can't even hold our defenses if Iceland or some other pathetic nation came knocking on our door... We are hopelessly behind in that area... What good is Lego and anestethics, when a thousand tanks tramble over the jutlandic fields?

Just a flag? Who are you working for? The Norwegian-Swedish coalition? The Germans? Dannebrog stands for the military might Denmark stands for... Although our whiny government has been slacking it lately... Damn Dansk Folkeparti and Venstre... Vote Enhedslisten!


sorry..mostly kidding...but military might of denmark??????

lets see if i can jokingly insult some one else...hmmm


fricken canada would bitchslap denmark,with one ice skate tied behind their back.

and dont even get into powerhouses like iceland and spain...ww2 all over again.

however those swiss guys on ski's are quite dangerous..could take an eye out with one of those poles!

i wont even go near france..lol(though i did throw them props on the mirage in the fighter thread)

and who was the ice skatin kid in some old book...in amsterdam me thinks,cool kid if my altzhimers aint getting the best of me...hans something,i always loved the book..so i jest.

i am at one with my northern/nordic neighbors.

That's the reason we should have a six digits number of infantry... north korea could hold off the americans, but we can't even hold our defenses if Iceland or some other pathetic nation came knocking on our door... We are hopelessly behind in that area... What good is Lego and anestethics, when a thousand tanks tramble over the jutlandic fields?

What good is six digits number of infantry...

...when there are no tanks trampling over Jutland?

What good is six digits number of infantry...

...when there are no tanks trampling over Jutland?

They will come... It is only a matter of time... Trust NOONE!

They will come... It is only a matter of time... Trust NOONE!

Correction: No one.

They will if you keep on throwing rotten eggs and tomatoes at them.

What good is Lego and anestethics, when a thousand tanks tramble over the jutlandic fields?

I would say that they would be perfect for getting high and then designing futuristic Lego-weapons.

Mock Lego not. Nanomachines are nothing compared to the awesome potential of Lego.

It is just a flag, we don't have the original anymore because it was bombed and burned and we were once the most powerful maybe, but then we allied ourselves with Napoleon and Britain decided to destroy our fleet.

Now though, we have something else that beats military might: Some of the best engineers and scientists, not to mention that for the size of our country, we're exceptionally good at providing aid and assistance. We have little to fear, because nobody fears us and nobody wants us all dead...

...well, not Enough and not Yet.
True... But that doesn't give them the right of burning our flag! I know it's just a red rag with a white cross on it, but such an act is despicable!
It just show how far behind the middle-east really is. They still live in the dark ages.

True... But that doesn't give them the right of burning our flag! I know it's just a red rag with a white cross on it, but such an act is despicable!
It just show how far behind the middle-east really is. They still live in the dark ages.

Sure, it's horrible. It also seems to be their only form of expression (it does draw attention).

But I was actually reacting to the capitalized (and here very very exagerrated) "OMFG, THEY BURN OUR FLAG! OMG! HOW CAN THEY? ARGH, KILL EM' ALL!". This is somewhat paraphrased.

In other words, it is still a flag and if they really want to burn it, we could just ignore it and maybe they'd find more civilized manners of expressing themselves.

Both sides are wrong.

The cartoons that have been springing up as of late with muslims as their subjects are relatively childish,and the cartooners should know better.I've seen things besides this cartoon,such as one where an Arab Man in turban and traditional dress is seen driving a truck containing a missle/bomb in it,with the caption "What would Mohammed drive?".Unless they were referring to a different mohammed which I am unaware of,that's just asking for an ass-kicking.I've seen many where Mohammed is portrayed as a terrorist/fundmentalist/suicide bomber,which is just blatantly offensive.

Muslims are wrong for overreacting.No-one ever forced them to read that particular newspaper,no-one ever forced them to look at that image daily or anything of that sort.I don't think the cartoon has been too popular in Denmark(at least,I hope not).If they're angry at the content,they could send a letter to the editor or whatever.They can't go to the government of Denmark,which has no control over the newspaper nor the right to tell them what to publish or not,and ask them to shut them down.It's just absurd.And just because they can't have their way and can't get over it,they decide to boycott Denmark and weaken its economy,because supposedly the people of Denmark have attacked them and need to be chastised.

Great,just jolly good.What about the people who will have to be let go to make up for the losses to their various corporations?

"Hey,Anders,I've been meaning to speak with you today..."
"Yes,boss,what is it...?"
"You heard about this whole mohammed cartoon fiasco,right?"
"...Yes,sir."
"And you know many countries are now boycotting us,right?"
"Yes,sir?"
"Yes,so this we'll be easier,because I won't have to explain.We're going to have to let you go...I'm sorry."
"But why sir?"
"Because we supposedly attacked Islam and need to be taught a lesson..."
"But sir,I don't even care about the cartoon...I never did anything against Islam!I've worked here for 10 years,sir,and I've always been diligent!"
"I know,but I'm sorry.."

Yes,of course,because that's so worth it.Because one stupid indivisual felt that he had to expose his beleifs to other,we have to punish an entire nation for his actions.They may as well make him a diplomat,as people seem to think he represents all of Denmark.:headbang:

By the way,don't flame me.I have Muslim background,but I don't tihnk we should fight anyone.Indeed,we already have our crazies making us look bad enough already.:mad:

Sure, it's horrible. It also seems to be their only form of expression (it does draw attention).

But I was actually reacting to the capitalized (and here very very exagerrated) "OMFG, THEY BURN OUR FLAG! OMG! HOW CAN THEY? ARGH, KILL EM' ALL!". This is somewhat paraphrased.

In other words, it is still a flag and if they really want to burn it, we could just ignore it and maybe they'd find more civilized manners of expressing themselves.
We could ignore it, yes. But that wouldn't make them more civilized. If arranged marriage, flogging or hanging is civilized behavior then my name is Jean Claude Van Damme!

What ever happened to the good old fashioned boycott? :(

We could ignore it, yes. But that wouldn't make them more civilized. If arranged marriage, flogging or hanging is civilized behavior then my name is Jean Claude Van Damme!

It depends on your definition of civilized,of course,my friend.A lot of people would see those things as just punishment for...mabye,Murder,for example.I don't know,but it's all perspective,Jean Claude.:rolleyes: Western Civilization has been getting rather preachy as of late,anyways.

EDIT:Arranged marriage works for men,I suppose.Parents aren't going to force you to marry an ugly girl,I would think.It's kind of bad for ze women,of course.But I don't support it,either way.

It depends on your definition of civilized,of course,my friend.A lot of people would see those things as just punishment for...mabye,Murder,for example.I don't know,but it's all perspective,Jean Claude.:rolleyes: Western Civilization has been getting rather preachy as of late,anyways.
At least we don't burn thier flag because they refuse to eat pig.

I agree that the whole boycotting a whole country for what one newspaper printed out is pretty damn stupid, but this is getting over-hyped. Not all Muslims or Saudis are boycotting Danish products, actually a relatively small fraction of them are. This is getting way over-blown.

I should add, this is coming from a Saudi *Prepares for an upcoming verbal-rape*

At least we don't burn thier flag because they refuse to eat pig.

Thank YOU!

At least we don't burn thier flag because they refuse to eat pig.

I see you enjoy Partisan politics style arguements,so here we go.

Well,do they burn your flag because you worship an ancient instrument of torture?I've yet to see that my friend.

I'm assuming you're christian,by the way,so correct me if I'm wrong.

I see you enjoy Partisan politics style arguements,so here we go.

Well,do they burn your flag because you worship an ancient instrument of torture?I've yet to see that my friend.

I'm assuming you're christian,by the way,so correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't know what ancient instrument of torture you're talking about. And I'm not christian. I'm atheist.

I say'd we liberated them... Freed them from their evil overlords' clutches... They are trapped in a net of religious mishmash, and it's a shame... Think about it... If religion never would've existed, Israel wouldn't have been formed, and the middle east may very well have become much more powerful and influental than they are now... Believe me... Christians are just as hopeless as any other religion...

Best scenario...

Timemachine to the place where the fool who wrote the Bible was... Nuke the living hell out of him... Teleport back.... Shangri-Lah!

I don't think it's a suprise that I'm from Denmark. But we have a right to print whatever we want! If they don't like it, then tough luck! If they drew our prime minister as a pig on stakes on fire, then we wouldn't care at all... But noooo, you just HAD to burn our flag and ignore every attempt at making a reasonable dialog between us... As far as I'm concerned, the middle east have just lost the last bit of dignity it had left... Noone... NOONE burns our flag, you damn pork-rejecting, sandhugging religious bastards!



Yes, these fanatics shouldn't take silly symbols of paper or cloth so seriousely!..........oh what was that about flags again?
A flag is a peice of cloth. a peice of cloth!!!! just like the ones wrapped round your arse right now! at best its a coloured peice of cloth! death threats and you say nothing! someone burns a wad of cotton fibres and you have a hissy fit!!!

There's fanatic nationalists out of the way.
Secondly, I was brought up christian and tryed my hardest to beleive it but eventually it just became rediculous(spelled wrong),
"the universe was created in 6 days..............oh.......you mean we have proved that it wasn't?.......well......that bit was just a story......................Adam and eve where the first man and women..........oh.....you mean all human life can be traced back (far further than the religous books say) to a single man and women but the women lived a thousand or so years before the man, meaning only his progeny survived his time and he actually never met 'eve'?.............well.....that was a story too............but god did make the universe and all the animals..........Oh.......you mean he didn't?.....you mean we have a fossil record, dated and collected that can show the evolution of species?......you mean we can see what developed into human thought in our closest relatives?.....apes.......(which by the way are NOT our ancestors you morons but are from the same ancestor!)...............well.....maybe god put the bones there for a joke." Every time something the bible (taking christianity as my basis but equally applicable to most of the big deity based religions) states something and is proved wrong it decideds to ignore that bit and just use the rest!!! how long till people are just basing their lives around the title and half the fucking index?!?!?!?!?!?

sorry this is getting long,


plus people always do the old "how can there be an all powerful, benevolent god?" and religions always say, "oh well he wants us to make our own decisions" well what the hell is all the obeying crap about! they say " he needs us to make our own mistakes" and blah blah blah. The only way they explain it requires limitations on power. God can let us make the decision to roll down the hill but he doesn't have to make to rock bash open our skull and leave us in a vegitative coma for the rest of our lives! If he knows everything then his watching people suffer is no different from seeing your tiny child laying on the floor, holding a gun in your hand and sitting and watching while a wolf walk in through the door, across the floor, and start slowly biting little peices off them!
either he can't always protect us or he can't! make up your damn mind!


right, with that much venting I'll have no bile left for a week! Oh you might have guessed that I'm a scientist. Just because science doesn't know everything (freely admitted), doesn't mean it doesn't know anything. If your I'll go to the doctor not lourds!

I am open to counterpoints by the way.........any evidence you have at all........thats the beauty of science.............an open mind.

I see you enjoy Partisan politics style arguements,so here we go.

Well,do they burn your flag because you worship an ancient instrument of torture?I've yet to see that my friend.

I'm assuming you're christian,by the way,so correct me if I'm wrong.

Not just torture, but execution.

I say'd we liberated them... Freed them from their evil overlords' clutches... They are trapped in a net of religious mishmash, and it's a shame... Think about it... If religion never would've existed, Israel wouldn't have been formed, and the middle east may very well have become much more powerful and influental than they are now... Believe me... Christians are just as hopeless as any other religion...

Best scenario...

Timemachine to the place where the fool who wrote the Bible was... Nuke the living hell out of him... Teleport back.... Shangri-Lah!

We'd probably then just have the Roman Empire,instead of the EU and the Sassanid/Persian Empire instread of the middle-east.Both were arch enemies.Have fun.:D

Some Jews would probably survive the Nukes,anyways.They've gone through worse.

Not just torture, but execution.


...You've lost me...

I say'd we liberated them... Freed them from their evil overlords' clutches... They are trapped in a net of religious mishmash, and it's a shame... Think about it... If religion never would've existed, Israel wouldn't have been formed, and the middle east may very well have become much more powerful and influental than they are now... Believe me... Christians are just as hopeless as any other religion...

Best scenario...

Timemachine to the place where the fool who wrote the Bible was... Nuke the living hell out of him... Teleport back.... Shangri-Lah!

So athiests have never done anyone any harm?

We'd probably then just have the Roman Empire,instead of the EU and the Sassanid/Persian Empire instread of the middle-east.Both were arch enemies.Have fun.:D

Some Jews would probably survive the Nukes,anyways.They've gone through worse.

Sweet... Fullblown warfare! Much better than that stupid terrorism... Who can fight something you can't see? I hate this! Give me WW1 any day!

We'd probably then just have the Roman Empire,instead of the EU and the Sassanid/Persian Empire instread of the middle-east.Both were arch enemies.Have fun.:D

Some Jews would probably survive the Nukes,anyways.They've gone through worse.

We're like cockroaches in that regard.

So athiests have never done anyone any harm?

Nope, never! Oh.... ATHEISTS... Thought you said PASCIFISTS... Dear me, of course... But atheists would'nt exist either, if there were no religion, no?

I don't know what ancient instrument of torture you're talking about. And I'm not christian. I'm atheist.

Oi,you mean you've never met a christian in Denmark before?Amazing.:rolleyes:

It's a cross,friend,on which Jesus supposedly died on.

If you're an athiest,then you probably don't understand why the muslims are so angry about,anyways...Have a nice day.:cool:

Nope, never! Oh.... ATHEISTS... Thought you said PASCIFISTS... Dear me, of course... But atheists would'nt exist either, if there were no religion, no?

My point was that people will be jerks and kill thier fellow man, no matter what.

P.S. as to my earlier anti religions, anti nationalist rant...............do what you want but if you have to beleive something so ludicrous........................................................................................... ...... do it quietly in the corner:)

Oi,you mean you've never met a christian in Denmark before?Amazing.:rolleyes:

It's a cross,friend,on which Jesus supposedly died on.

If you're an athiest,then you probably don't understand why the muslims are so angry about,anyways...Have a nice day.:cool:
Christians doesn't worship the cross itself. They worship god. I get your point, however.

And NO I don't understand what they are so angry about. I just want everyone to just get along.

My point was that people will be jerks and kill thier fellow man, no matter what.


A great man said "without religion evil men would do evil and good men would do good, but for good men to do evil takes religion." I would whole-heartedly agree.

(p.s. don't go mad about only using the word men.............it means the species and origonally meant the same as human and cam from the word fro brain......very asexual beginings)

...You've lost me...

I assumed that he/she was refering to the cross, a roman device for torture and execution.

I assumed that he/she was refering to the cross, a roman device for torture and execution.

Which I was.

He,by the way:D

A great man said "without religion evil men would do evil and good men would do good, but for good men to do evil takes religion." I would whole-heartedly agree.

(p.s. don't go mad about only using the word men.............it means the species and origonally meant the same as human and cam from the word fro brain......very asexual beginings)

Beautiful... Just as good as

"He who controls the past commands the future. He who commands the future conquers the past."

- George Orwell (1903 - 1950)

Couldn't say it any better myself.

A great man said "without religion evil men would do evil and good men would do good, but for good men to do evil takes religion." I would whole-heartedly agree.

(p.s. don't go mad about only using the word men.............it means the species and origonally meant the same as human and cam from the word fro brain......very asexual beginings)

The same could be said about any ideology. Including atheism.

The same could be said about any ideology. Including atheism.


atheism is not an ideology. I don't even like the tewrm atheist.......why do I need a label to say that I don't beleive in thousadn year old mythology that has been proven wrong ad infinitum. Do we come up with a term to label all those who don't think the moon is made of chees and badgers can read our thoughts???

Anyhoo... Denmark wrockz maxxorz, the rest of ya'll are phat l33t...

Anyhoo... Denmark wrockz maxxorz, the rest of ya'll are phat l33t...

Isn't that a good thing...?:D

Which I was.

He,by the way:D

He it is then.

My favorite part is the "act against the newspaper" request; they're obviously not used to freedom of speech and fail to understand that something like that isn't enough reason to stone someone to death :rolleyes:

atheism is not an ideology. I don't even like the tewrm atheist.......why do I need a label to say that I don't beleive in thousadn year old mythology that has been proven wrong ad infinitum. Do we come up with a term to label all those who don't think the moon is made of chees and badgers can read our thoughts???

Atheism IS an ideology. It is an active belief in an idea. (The idea that there is no God, or Gods, or god, or higher power, etc.)

And avowed atheists have done just as much harm as theists, per capita, possibly more.

My favorite part is the "act against the newspaper" request; they're obviously not used to freedom of speech and fail to understand that something like that isn't enough reason to stone someone to death :rolleyes:
You've read my mind.

Isn't that a good thing...?:D

No, I just told you you were all horribly obese!

...Where should I know that from... I'm not street posse...

Clicky (http://www.natashatynes.org/newswire/2005/12/row_deepens_ove.html)

No, I have not seen the pictures, but c'mon, how bad can they possibly be?
Someone takes religion way too seriously. Get a life. They even death-threatend swedes, who has nothing to do with it whatsoever!
:sniper: the muslims need to grow up about that prick mohamend
say heard he liked to f*ck little girls
i mean just imagine if jesus was a child molester no!
its mohamend and all those cathlic priests!
and didnt jim baker raped jessica hahn i thought religions were like moral no!
the yare all perverts!
if the muslims cant ake a little ribbing i say we nuke mecca and build a nudie bar on the kabba stone!
i'm turning buddist never heard of a budidst monk raping a kid..
:fluffle:

i'm turning buddist never heard of a budidst monk raping a kid..
:fluffle:

Cause they're lightning fast... What did you think they are training in their temples...? Knitting?

Atheism IS an ideology. It is an active belief in an idea. (The idea that there is no God, or Gods, or god, or higher power, etc.)

And avowed atheists have done just as much harm as theists, per capita, possibly more.



okay........first what is an avowed atheist? and secondly are you kidding???? please tell em your not going to use hitler as an example. he wasn't killing people because he didn't beleive in god......he did it because he was a nutter.
I don't necdessarily beleive that there is no god. I am a scientist. So far everything I have seen points to there being no god excluding the fact that we don't know yet what started the big bang and a gap in the universes expansion rate that is too fast. Both of these bring up the question, what caused them.......as of yet we don't know and so yes.......I accept that there may be a "god" i.e. some being that might have influenced the universe in some way. what I'm saying is that I have also seen no absolutely convincing evidence that there is not a china teapot orbiting the sun. It cannot be entirely disproved as we can't veiw something of that size at that distance that is not emiting light and is near something so large that is. The fact that it cannot be disproved doesn't mean it exists. Any rational person would think it rediculus but if someone irrational did then maybe they could teach it to there children. Maybe their children would find teach theres, maybe one of them say the ,now holy, teapot has spoken to them in dreams and told them how they should live, maybe he or she writes it down. Maybe this small group recriuts others, people without a decent education who don't understand the world, people who are in an emotionally vulnerable state and just need something to cling to. A thousand years later its a culture and demanding representation in government.

okay........first what is an avowed atheist? and secondly are you kidding???? please tell em your not going to use hitler as an example. he wasn't killing people because he didn't beleive in god......he did it because he was a nutter.
I don't necdessarily beleive that there is no god. I am a scientist. So far everything I have seen points to there being no god excluding the fact that we don't know yet what started the big bang and a gap in the universes expansion rate that is too fast. Both of these bring up the question, what caused them.......as of yet we don't know and so yes.......I accept that there may be a "god" i.e. some being that might have influenced the universe in some way. what I'm saying is that I have also seen no absolutely convincing evidence that there is not a china teapot orbiting the sun. It cannot be entirely disproved as we can't veiw something of that size at that distance that is not emiting light and is near something so large that is. The fact that it cannot be disproved doesn't mean it exists. Any rational person would think it rediculus but if someone irrational did then maybe they could teach it to there children. Maybe their children would find teach theres, maybe one of them say the ,now holy, teapot has spoken to them in dreams and told them how they should live, maybe he or she writes it down. Maybe this small group recriuts others, people without a decent education who don't understand the world, people who are in an emotionally vulnerable state and just need something to cling to. A thousand years later its a culture and demanding representation in government.

That was scary...

Atheism IS an ideology. It is an active belief in an idea. (The idea that there is no God, or Gods, or god, or higher power, etc.)

And avowed atheists have done just as much harm as theists, per capita, possibly more.


Well done on completely missing the point of the original quotation.

Or did you just get blinded by annoyance because you perceived a slight towards your ideology?

Atheism IS an ideology. It is an active belief in an idea. (The idea that there is no God, or Gods, or god, or higher power, etc.)

And avowed atheists have done just as much harm as theists, per capita, possibly more.

Maybe it is an active belief for some. However i consider myself atheist because i have as much belief in God as i do in Pixies. Does this mean i'm Atheist AND Apixiest? Does my active ideology of not acknowledging the existance of pixes cause me to take on a mindset to justify or promote certain activities? (whether they be positive or negative).

Anyway on the original post... We have free speech. They get offended by it. Too bad for them. They have groups wanting to stone people for owning satellite dishes. We find that crazy. Too bad for us.

Still i dont see how boycotting Danish products is an appropriate response to an independent newspaper doing something they find offensive. It would be like me wanting to stop buying beef because a butcher once overcharged me.

okay........first what is an avowed atheist? and secondly are you kidding???? please tell em your not going to use hitler as an example. he wasn't killing people because he didn't beleive in god......he did it because he was a nutter.
I don't necdessarily beleive that there is no god. I am a scientist. So far everything I have seen points to there being no god excluding the fact that we don't know yet what started the big bang and a gap in the universes expansion rate that is too fast. Both of these bring up the question, what caused them.......as of yet we don't know and so yes.......I accept that there may be a "god" i.e. some being that might have influenced the universe in some way. what I'm saying is that I have also seen no absolutely convincing evidence that there is not a china teapot orbiting the sun. It cannot be entirely disproved as we can't veiw something of that size at that distance that is not emiting light and is near something so large that is. The fact that it cannot be disproved doesn't mean it exists. Any rational person would think it rediculus but if someone irrational did then maybe they could teach it to there children. Maybe their children would find teach theres, maybe one of them say the ,now holy, teapot has spoken to them in dreams and told them how they should live, maybe he or she writes it down. Maybe this small group recriuts others, people without a decent education who don't understand the world, people who are in an emotionally vulnerable state and just need something to cling to. A thousand years later its a culture and demanding representation in government.

A person that can rant like this is a perfect example of an avowed atheist.

Why can't we all just... Get along...?

Let's all be friends... And while you're busy cuddling eachother, the USSD will strike from behind, raping, killing, stealing and razing our way through happyland!

A person that can rant like this is a perfect example of an avowed atheist.

Because we've never seen a religious person rant:rolleyes:

Well done on completely missing the point of the original quotation.

Or did you just get blinded by annoyance because you perceived a slight towards your ideology?

I didn't miss the point at all. I wasn't blinded at all. For all you know, I'm an atheist. (I'm not, I'm agnostic. But that's not the point.)

My point was that there's a bunch of atheists around that think that religion is the root of all evil, when any ideology can be misused to allow seemingly good people to commit evil.

A person that can rant like this is a perfect example of an avowed atheist.


eventually the 'rantees' have to become the 'ranters' or suddenly I have to drive backwards on sundays and where a teacozy on my head because our old orbiting freind said so and a pressure group made it law.

Because we've never seen a religious person rant:rolleyes:

Did I say this, or even hint at it.

Methinks I struck a nerve against the nobel atheists self deception.

Did I say this, or even hint at it.

Methinks I struck a nerve against the nobel atheists self deception.

Atheist are a very loose term... Are you a atheist, because you want to "revolt" against society? 'Cause if that's the case, then you might have fallen into a trap, my friend... People like you are milking cows... I shudder every time I see some socalled "revolting spirit" who wears badges and t-shirts saying "USA suck".... Who do you believe's making those things?

Bah... Fools... "Uh, look at me! I'm a atheist 'cause I want to be different!"

Seriously though, there are tonnes of cartoons which depict religious figures which aren't meant to be seen, but you don't see the Vatican threatening to assassinate Matt Stone and Trey Parker just because they depicted Jesus. And God. And Moses.

Seriously though, there are tonnes of cartoons which depict religious figures which aren't meant to be seen, but you don't see the Vatican threatening to assassinate Matt Stone and Trey Parker just because they depicted Jesus. And God. And Moses.

Exactly.

I didn't miss the point at all. I wasn't blinded at all. For all you know, I'm an atheist. (I'm not, I'm agnostic. But that's not the point.)

My point was that there's a bunch of atheists around that think that religion is the root of all evil, when any ideology can be misused to allow seemingly good people to commit evil.



I agree entirely, my origonal post had some anti flag worshipping stuff.
I guess I just get annoyed sometimes as I'm always so rational and questioning and all I can see when I look at religion is a way of controling people. I know not all religious people act this way but at best I see it as deluding yourself.

If you'd like to talk to me about agnostic beleifs ( which I'm not too clear on) then feel free. I will listen, way up what you have to say, do some research into the origins of the beleif system and try to find out what its all about. If I think its true then......yay.....no more being called an atheist. I will keep an open mind as always. Scientific and unbiased. But if I'm not convinced, or I find out that it was made up, like most religions I have researched, to remove the fear of the big unknown ball in the sky, then I won't be surprised.

Did I say this, or even hint at it.

Methinks I struck a nerve against the nobel atheists self deception.

Maybe i misinterpreted what you intended to say but

A person that can rant like this is a perfect example of an avowed atheist..

does seem to imply that the only people able to rant like that are avowed atheists. So, YES, i would suggest that at very least you hinted at it. Sorry if i misunderstood. If that wasnt your intention you didnt make it very clear.

Just for point of note i wouldnt consider myself in the "noble atheist" or the "avowed atheist" groups. I'm agnostic in the sense that i do not deny nor support the possibility of a God existing. I'm atheist in the fact that thus far i have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that there is a God.

NB: Sorry to the original poster for getting off topic and getting dangerously close to one of 'those' threads.

Atheist are a very loose term... Are you a atheist, because you want to "revolt" against society? 'Cause if that's the case, then you might have fallen into a trap, my friend... People like you are milking cows... I shudder every time I see some socalled "revolting spirit" who wears badges and t-shirts saying "USA suck".... Who do you believe's making those things?

Bah... Fools... "Uh, look at me! I'm a atheist 'cause I want to be different!"



once again I don't see myself as an atheist. I see my self as a person. A person who according to everything I have researched, evolved slowly from the same stuff that everything and everyone else did. This is the root of the reason that despite a christian upbringing in a very pale skined village, I see no difference between myself and other animals other than brain capacity and genetic structure, and I see no difference between myself and other humans than very much slighter differences in bone structure, melanin balance, and whatever experiences I've had.
Also I agree, "the anti trademark" trademark does seem to be doing wonderfully in the markets hey? lol

A person that can rant like this is a perfect example of an avowed atheist.


also I notice that you did skirt the issue of the magic teapot (like most who are pro-religion) and I think thats a shame because .....well........come on, how many times can you tell people that you spent the afternoon arguing and defending your faith with some crazy guy who kept talking about magic teapots?! Its the opertunity of a lifetime!:)

Just for point of note i wouldnt consider myself in the "noble atheist" or the "avowed atheist" groups. I'm agnostic in the sense that i do not deny nor support the possibility of a God existing. I'm atheist in the fact that thus far i have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that there is a God.

NB: Sorry to the original poster for getting off topic and getting dangerously close to one of 'those' threads.

Sorry. I've met far too many "noble atheists" that spout off how evil and stupid every person with religion is. These are people that even if Jesus himself came riding through the sky on the backs of seven purple hippopotamuses eating Crispy Creame donuts (Jesus, not the hippopotamuses) and dancing to polka music would deny the existance of God, et al. and chock it up to mass hysteria and/or schizophrena.

I believe it's a "flame-bait" for terrorists, and when they get there they won't find writers but some elite secret agents squad...
If you are a terrorist pretend you didn't see that :p

Isn't the problem ignorance though?

A small group of people who have lived in isolation for a thousand years are suddenly confronted with a society that has since progressed. Freedom of press has been a basic right since the 15th century in my country. We're used to saying what we like and think.

Compare with people who lived in the Soviet Union. My mum has friends from Lithuania - they are not at all used to questioning government offices since they grew up under Soviet tyra.. er, rule.

Furthermore, Denmark and the Scandinavian countries, AFAIK, does not permit ministers to even express their opinions on specific matters, let alone rule on them! This is also regulated in the constitution. But they don't know that down there - they're used to being ruled by an iron fist.

We pour cash into and speed up development in their countries, and when we excersise a right they don't yet have, they become infuriated. It's absurd. I know I'm generalising, but I'm only trying to make a point. They should look at our countries as templates for their own if they're interested in surviving. It's only a matter of time though, before they embrace the positive aspects of western civilisation.

At least we don't burn thier flag because they refuse to eat pig.

They're burning our flag because the newspaper idolized a prophet.

They're in the belief that burning our flag = idolizing a prophet.

I believe that them burning our flag is ridiculous, as it hurts us and especially the newspaper Less than what we did to them.

Sorry. I've met far too many "noble atheists" that spout off how evil and stupid every person with religion is. These are people that even if Jesus himself came riding through the sky on the backs of seven purple hippopotamuses eating Crispy Creame donuts (Jesus, not the hippopotamuses) and dancing to polka music would deny the existance of God, et al. and chock it up to mass hysteria and/or schizophrena.
I'd deny the existence of "God" were that to happen, and I don't mind saying that. Just because some universal power has an avatar in Jesus doesn't mean that same power is the one represented in Paulite theology.

They're burning our flag because the newspaper idolized a prophet.

They're in the belief that burning our flag = idolizing a prophet.

I believe that them burning our flag is ridiculous, as it hurts us and especially the newspaper Less than what we did to them.

That's because most of them don't understand that:

A) Denmark has nothing to do with that newspaper and no legal means of halting the newspaper's actions

and

B) Denmark really doesn't give a shit about burning flags. Just increases sales of flags. :)

They're burning our flag because the newspaper idolized a prophet.

They're in the belief that burning our flag = idolizing a prophet.

I believe that them burning our flag is ridiculous, as it hurts us and especially the newspaper Less than what we did to them.

Hurtful? I just laugh. The Dannebrog and the flag of Norway looked really tacky. Rather comical watching a mob of angry bearded males chant in some unknown tongue while burning a piece of cloth that resembles the flag of a neighbouring country.

B) Denmark really doesn't give a shit about burning flags. Just increases sales of flags. :)
I don't believe I have ever seen a Danish flag in the cloth.Where the hell did those guys find one to burn!!!:confused:

B) Denmark really doesn't give a shit about burning flags. Just increases sales of flags. :)

I like that thinking. I should move to the extremist part of the middle east and set up an importing business that deals in the flags of western countries. I could make a truckload of cash selling flags to angry militants. If they are burning them all the time they'll need plenty of replacements. Maybe i could sign a contract to import Zippo lighters too.

I don't believe I have ever seen a Danish flag in the cloth.Where the hell did those guys find one to burn!!!:confused:

Ebay. :)

I like that thinking. I should move to the extremist part of the middle east and set up an importing business that deals in the flags of western countries. I could make a truckload of cash selling flags to angry militants. If they are burning them all the time they'll need plenty of replacements. Maybe i could sign a contract to import Zippo lighters too.

Don't forget cardboard cut-outs of prominent Western leaders. You could stay in business just selling George Ws to burn. :)

Ebay. :)
Oohh. Still I have to believe one of the other posters when they said it was the flag of Norway they were burning.The flag makers of Denmark must be pissing themselves.Isn't Denmark famous for pork among other things??Silly extremists.;)

Don't forget cardboard cut-outs of prominent Western leaders. You could stay in business just selling George Ws to burn. :)

You sir, have a fine brain for business. I could make John Howards eyebrows extra flammable. Like fire starters. I can hear the Iraqi Dinars flowing already.

"crazy vodka's protest warehouse - for all your infidel flammable needs"

Let them boycott what they want; it's their right. I'll just buy more Danish Blue and Havarti. ;)

However, who's going to scold them for their cultural intolerance? After all, they are demanding that Denmark change their societal norms or they won't do business with them, and threatening violence because they don't agree with another society's laws.

It goes both ways, folks.

Clicky (http://www.natashatynes.org/newswire/2005/12/row_deepens_ove.html)

No, I have not seen the pictures, but c'mon, how bad can they possibly be?
Someone takes religion way too seriously. Get a life. They even death-threatend swedes, who has nothing to do with it whatsoever!
Apparently Muslims ( or at least these Muslims ) don't understand freedom of speech. Hell, even American Christian fundamentalists don't demand censorship of frakking cartoons! :headbang:

you want to know what i think about it. I dont hate muslims, but i dont like them either for a few simple reasons:

1) have u ever heard of someone of any other religion apart from muslim nowadays go to an islamic country and ask for example for a cross to be put up in the classroom... No (you do with muslims)

2) Do u hear of anyone from any other religion, who does not only practise their religion and want free space for it (understandable till here) but will also not stand anyone against it or who has any comments? (again you do with muslims)

3) The ever seeming increase of muslims in ever country i have visited in my worldwide travels. And the cheek of most of them to impose their religion onto the country which they have infested, i mean, inhabited. Italy, germany, france, england, canada, usa, and even a small island of Malta. Compared to all their sentences for: rape, murder, etc etc found in their own country, they live a pretty unoppressed life in ours. Now thats just it, its ours, our laws, our lives, and if u dont like it, go complain to your best friends about how crap it is, but dont try and impose an "either my way or nothing" strategy.

I think that people nowadays have got absolutely nothing to do. As i refuse to believe that someone who is tolerant will not give a rats ass about a cross on the wall. What so my country of malta is being invaded by arabs, and we are tolerant people. They are hardly discriminated in my country. Should i act like them and as soon as i see a woman wearing a sheet on her head, start a whole chaos about how she is promoting her religion? no i dont do it, so why do you do it to me. If you want equality, ok fine, no crosses in school, but you are not wearing that sheet round your head to school either. Preffered language english, and no one can speak any other language. hey equality is what u wanted right.any form of prayer can not be uttered in school. we can go on all day to make each others life hell, or we can learn to not bother about stupid things and just be happy in life and move along, instead of creating waves over things which shouldnt matter.

I will be completely honest with you all. It is these things which are infusing hatred into most people nowadays. And ill be furthur honest with you. Maltese people are getting tired of it, and one can see the change from 3 years ago. More and more people are beginning to grow hatred for these people in Malta. I am living in Germany at the moment and everytime i go back down to malta i see the difference in the mentality. Arab men have the habit of teasing women in malta and causing trouble. The mentality 6 months ago was, just leave them alone, ignorant people. I went down last christmas, a month ago and that is not what is being said anymore. Any arab trying his luck is quickly getting the crap beaten out of him. I have seen two people run after an arab and bring him to the ground. thirty other maltese people who by the way do not know each other. just passers by, soon as they saw this, instead of stopping the fight or at least just looking at it, started running with the other two maltese and let me tell you when they brought the arab down, hatred from 30 people just sprung out of no where. I felt proud there for a minute that 30 maltese people for that 2 minute span, put away their differences, having not even spoken to each other once, not knowing who the guy next to you is, and defeat what is slowly becoming "the common enemy" in lots of people's minds.

on New years eve, in a town where no cars could pass that night, an arab ploughed through 3 policemen, and sped through this town where at least 20,000 people where celebrating, hitting and injuring a good 10 people. A massive crowd tried to stop the car and when they finally did, the massive crowd pulled out the arab from the car and beat him to shreds before the police even had a chance of getting close to him. His car was also stripped and destroyed in a matter of seconds.

All this is happening cause as a people muslims are persistent on annoying people of other races. So do not cry racism racism when people finally have enough of it and fight back. You are in their country, you will obey their rules and likes, and you will repect them. If you dont like it, leave, no one is stopping you from leaving, on the contrary i am sure most people will be more than happy to give you the boot out themselves. you already have the right to say what u want, build your holy places, etc etc like every other religion, but then do not abuse of that freedom, for it will turn around and bite you in the ass i guarantee it.

i pose to you a few simple questions:

There are as many chinese people outside china as there as muslims outside islam nations, but do you ever hear of chinese people causing trouble? Do you cross the road scared at 4:00am when you are walking home and u spot a chinese person? Are there as many mass murders, rapes, robberies, etc by chinese people as there are with islamic people? the answer to ever question here is NO, NO, NO, NO, although there are more chinese immigrants than islam immigrants... So its not foreigners who r the problem is it, and these facts where not created by themselves are they, but over what people are used to seeing from the people. I for one have met many chinese people in malta with whom i get along. unfortunately i can not say the same for muslims.

Thank you for reading, i do not mean to offend anyone, but again, if u dont like it, u dont need to start a war over it, u can just ignore it. hehehe

In Islam physical depictions, images of any type, of the prophet Mohamed are prohibited. It's not the content, but the fact that they are images of Mohamed that spark the outrage.
Yeah, some kids in the library at my highschool went through some books and scribbled (in pencil for some reason) over Mohammed's face in this one book. I remember talking to the librarian as she was erasing the pencil.

Yeah, some kids in the library at my highschool went through some books and scribbled (in pencil for some reason) over Mohammed's face in this one book. I remember talking to the librarian as she was erasing the pencil.
When you enter the US, there should be a huge sign saying, "Leave your prejudices, your warped ideas and beliefs, and your hatred at the door!"

When you enter the US, there should be a huge sign saying, "Leave your prejudices, your warped ideas and beliefs, and your hatred at the door!"
Nah they would just burn it. Apparently they burn everything they hate.:rolleyes:

When you enter the US, there should be a huge sign saying, "Leave your prejudices, your warped ideas and beliefs, and your hatred at the door!"
I'm in Canada. I don't believe it was hatred on their part either. The book was depicting the face of Mohammed, which is not to be depicted, so they were rectifying the situation.

I (only) agree with this:

we can go on all day to make each others life hell, or we can learn to not bother about stupid things and just be happy in life and move along
(...)
You are in their country, you will obey their rules and likes, and you will repect them. If you dont like it, leave

I'm in Canada. I don't believe it was hatred on their part either. The book was depicting the face of Mohammed, which is not to be depicted, so they were rectifying the situation.
Ok then, it wasn't hatred. It was simple stupidity. :p

Ok then, it wasn't hatred. It was simple stupidity. :p
No, it's their religion.

And a lack of respect for school property.

http://www.jp.dk/meninger/ncartikel:aid=3527646
No need to fight anymore. Here's the excuse the muslims wanted.

I think they're probaby overreacting a little bit, but people are going to overreact when you screw with their beliefs. That's how the world works. People will even invent attacks on their religion (see also: War on Christmas) to say that they're being attacked and they should have the right to fight back. I think that's just the way people behaved. If someone drew something like that of Jesus, people would be offeneded. I think that's totally understandable. It's overreacting a little, but it's understandable.

No, it's their religion.

And a lack of respect for school property.
And that differs from "simple stupidity" how?

When you enter the US, there should be a huge sign saying, "Leave your prejudices, your warped ideas and beliefs, and your hatred at the door!"
Then what? "Adopt ours instead!"?

again,i am decidely non religous,but when pat goes and spouts off..it is just plain silly and written off,when these total fuckin lunatics go on their murderous diatribes(which they seem to back up,unlike the goofy christians..you know..the gay teletubby crap)all the enlightened westeners all say..geez..gotta respect their religion(even though they want you dead)but when some goofball tard like pat says something..all the handwringers squirm and say how ghastly...pathetic!


Seriously! If we want the "handwringers" to get in the back seat and STFU, then the only recourse we have as AMericans is (aside from bloody revolution- which could be costly and is less likely to achieve much besides widespread suffering) to choke them out politically. Stop voting people into office who threaten civil liberties and human rights. Without an office they will have to resort to private enterprise as their pulpit. The only reason that freak (Pat) has any cred is because there are too many congressional bible thumpers. Legislating morality is a detriment to every freedom we cherish. Protecting the few from subjective offense to the detriment of the many is ridiculous. If you don't want to see pictures of Mohammed, don't look. If it hurts you that Christ may be burned in effigy, stay away from the bonfire. If porn offends you, refrain from googling vague phrases. The Amish have the right idea. Right now we are all doing things that are socially unacceptable to them, they know these things are happening every day, and when's the last time you heard them complain?

The rest of Europe needs a display of solidarity with Denmark. If muslim countries want to introduce diplomatic sanctions against Denmark then lets respond in kind. See how they enjoy life with a trade embargo from the largest economy in the world (The EU) and a complete withdrawal of all humanitarian aid from Europe.

<snip>
And I agree 100% with this guy. It's perfectly understandable how people will start getting pissed off with muslims ruining their country, and I know that the situation in Malta has been pretty bad in that respect recently.

I don't know if the Muslim reaction is that unusual Remember the reaction in the Bible-Belt of America when Lennon said the Beatles were bigger than Jesus? Strangely similar.

I'm not saying it's right, I think it's ridiculas, I'm just saying it's not unusual.

I've seen the cartoon that has caused the fuss, and it is of The Prophet Mohammed with a bomb on top of his head with the fuse sizzling away.

It's saying that Islam is a ticking bomb until complete violence.

It's not just the drawing of Mohammed, but the context of the drawing which is offensive to muslims....it's an Islamophobic caricature, and causes only a feeling of islolation within the Islamic community.

If it was an drawing of Jesus looking angry with a bomb on his head, I think some Christians would get a bit uppity too.

I've seen the cartoon that has caused the fuss, and it is of The Prophet Mohammed with a bomb on top of his head with the fuse sizzling away.

It's saying that Islam is a ticking bomb until complete violence.

It's not just the drawing of Mohammed, but the context of the drawing which is offensive to muslims....it's an Islamophobic caricature, and causes only a feeling of islolation within the Islamic community.
[snip]

Well, the cartoonist was just shown to be utterly right, wasn't he?

I've seen the cartoon that has caused the fuss, and it is of The Prophet Mohammed with a bomb on top of his head with the fuse sizzling away.

It's saying that Islam is a ticking bomb until complete violence.

It's not just the drawing of Mohammed, but the context of the drawing which is offensive to muslims....it's an Islamophobic caricature, and causes only a feeling of islolation within the Islamic community.

If it was an drawing of Jesus looking angry with a bomb on his head, I think some Christians would get a bit uppity too.

Or alternatively, as was suggested on another thread, a picture of Jesus getting a blow job from a ten year old in response to the trend for paedophile priests.

Well, the cartoonist was just shown to be utterly right, wasn't he?

Yes, look at all the people who've been killed by the offended muslims, there must be at least, well, none.

It's perfectly understandable how people will start getting pissed off with muslims ruining their country, and I know that the situation in Malta has been pretty bad in that respect recently.

The only people ruining any country are people like you, of various creeds, whose xenophobic views cause anger and hurt.

Yes, look at all the people who've been killed by the offended muslims, there must be at least, well, none.

So I guess Theo van Gogh isn't dead at all?

Well, the cartoonist was just shown to be utterly right, wasn't he?

No, it showed the cartoonist to be a Islamophobic idiot, who knew full well that his drawing would cause upset.

Muslims will only be ticking bombs when they have been humiliated and degraded and people have islolated them enough.

They are like every human who has religious beliefs, they just ask for respect for themselves and their religion.

Or alternatively, as was suggested on another thread, a picture of Jesus getting a blow job from a ten year old in response to the trend for paedophile priests.

Indeed.

The rest of Europe needs a display of solidarity with Denmark. If muslim countries want to introduce diplomatic sanctions against Denmark then lets respond in kind. See how they enjoy life with a trade embargo from the largest economy in the world (The EU) and a complete withdrawal of all humanitarian aid from Europe.


And I agree 100% with this guy. It's perfectly understandable how people will start getting pissed off with muslims ruining their country, and I know that the situation in Malta has been pretty bad in that respect recently.

Last I heard the boycott was only from individual muslims, not countries as a whole.

So I guess Theo van Gogh isn't dead at all?

Well done, you've just completely changed the subject.

No, it showed the cartoonist to be a Islamophobic idiot, who knew full well that his drawing would cause upset.

Muslims will only be ticking bombs when they have been humiliated and degraded and people have islolated them enough.

They are like every human who has religious beliefs, they just ask for respect for themselves and their religion.

So I guess a fatwa is totally a-okay?

Proof that muslims have no sense of humour

I have a terrific sense of humor. So fuck your generalisation.

However, the pics in question weren't funny, nor were they intended to be. They were intended to insult.

I said this in the other thread: If you deliberately set out to insult somebody, don't be surprised when they are.

So I guess a fatwa is totally a-okay?

You have no idea what a fatwah is ... do you?

Well done, you've just completely changed the subject.

No. Make up your mind.

Either muslims are fine decent citizens who totally respect our codes.

Or they are not.

Denmark and other Western nations believe in freedom of the press and freedom of speech as central tennents of their civilization. If the cartoons had been portraying Fred Phelps, the pope, or even Jesus in a negative light there would be little outcry in the West because Western people are civilized enough to tolerate other points of view.

Many, though not all, in the Muslim world aren't civilized enough to understand and accept the concept of free speech and free press. We can't sacrifice the central tennents of our civilization to appease them. Instead we should work to spread the appreciation of free speech to them. It's our duty to change them if we're to share this world without constantly fighting wars with each other.

Either muslims are fine decent citizens who totally respect our codes.


Oh ... yet another "black and white world" talking head who can't see past their own arrogance. Just what this forum needed.

Clue: There is no either/or. Most are, a few are not. Take it on a case by case basis and don't condemn an entire people based on the actions of a few.

No. Make up your mind.

Either muslims are fine decent citizens who totally respect our codes.

Or they are not.

Friend, you claimed that these protests vindicated the cartoonist's claim that Muslims are inherantly violent, I then pointed out that no acts of violence have been carried out as a result of the cartoon. Unless you can show otherwise you must admit that you are wrong.

I would.. had it not been for the fact that I've yet to meet a single muslim who in a flipflop-free way totally CONDEMNED the van Gogh assasination.
Without a single 'you gotta understand' line. Free on any and all attempts to relativize.

Friend, you claimed that these protests vindicated the cartoonist's claim that Muslims are inherantly violent, I then pointed out that no acts of violence have been carried out as a result of the cartoon. Unless you can show otherwise you must admit that you are wrong.

Did you watch the BBC world news this morning?
If you didn't, just keep watching this week.

Denmark and other Western nations believe in freedom of the press and freedom of speech as central tennents of their civilization. If the cartoons had been portraying Fred Phelps, the pope, or even Jesus in a negative light there would be little outcry in the West because Western people are civilized enough to tolerate other points of view.

I challenge you to walk into a town in the middle of the Bible Belt and shout: "Jesus was a gay, communist, cock-sucking paedophile!" and see what kind of reaction you get.

Friend, you claimed that these protests vindicated the cartoonist's claim that Muslims are inherantly violent, I then pointed out that no acts of violence have been carried out as a result of the cartoon. Unless you can show otherwise you must admit that you are wrong.
Do you mean in addition to the heavily armed gunmen invading the EU office in Gaza to protest the cartoons?

I would.. had it not been for the fact that I've yet to meet a single muslim who in a flipflop-free way totally CONDEMNED the van Gogh assasination.

*raises hand*

I did ... vehemently.

Now that you've met one, settle the fuck down and stop hating me. You don't even know me.

Did you watch the BBC world news this morning?
If you didn't, just keep watching this week.

So you admit that you were wrong and the Islamic reaction hasn't proved the cartoonist right.

Whether an extremist will act remains to be seen but as yet you must admit that you are wrong.

I challenge you to walk into a town in the middle of the Bible Belt and shout: "Jesus was a gay, communist, cock-sucking paedophile!" and see what kind of reaction you get.
Hostility, but virtually no physical action.

Do you mean in addition to the heavily armed gunmen invading the EU office in Gaza to protest the cartoons?

Invading? From what I heard they just milled about outside the office for a bit then went home, that's hardly a brutal act of violence now is it?

Hostility, but virtually no physical action.

And as yet there has been no physical action, what's your point?

I challenge you to walk into a town in the middle of the Bible Belt and shout: "Jesus was a gay, communist, cock-sucking paedophile!" and see what kind of reaction you get.
Noone's saying that there wouldn't be backlash if the boot were on the Christian foot, just that the reaction from the Muslim world was orders of magnitude more extreme than you would expect for any other religion.

I challenge you to walk into a town in the middle of the Bible Belt and shout: "Jesus was a gay, communist, cock-sucking paedophile!" and see what kind of reaction you get.
I'm sure a few barbarians in our midst would try to use violence, but your comparison is apples to oranges. Let's say I put a letter to the editor in their local paper saying that Christianity promotes violence. I'm sure the reply I'd get would mainly be opinion pieces refuting my conclusion. Not death threats.

The cartoons were saying that Islam promotes violence, and the barbarians among the Muslims threatened violence in retaliation. Basically they're doing their best to try to prove the cartoons right.

Invading? From what I heard they just milled about outside the office for a bit then went home, that's hardly a brutal act of violence now is it?
No the people who milled around outside the office were the back-up armed with RPG's and grenades, I'm talking about the gunmen who forced their way into the office at gunpoint and remained there until the got their message across.

Noone's saying that there wouldn't be backlash if the boot were on the Christian foot, just that the reaction from the Muslim world was orders of magnitude more extreme than you would expect for any other religion.

People have the right to boycott whatever they want, I personally boycott Coca-Cola in protest at their anti-union action in South America.

No the people who milled around outside the office were the back-up armed with RPG's and grenades, I'm talking about the gunmen who forced their way into the office at gunpoint and remained there until the got their message across.

On Monday, about 15 gunmen burst into the EU office in Gaza City, and withdrew about 30 minutes later. No shots were fired, and there were no reports of injuries. link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4661572.stm)

Still sounds like a Fathers4Justice level occurence to me.

I'm sure a few barbarians in our midst would try to use violence, but your comparison is apples to oranges. Let's say I put a letter to the editor in their local paper saying that Christianity promotes violence. I'm sure the reply I'd get would mainly be opinion pieces refuting my conclusion. Not death threats.

The cartoons were saying that Islam promotes violence, and the barbarians among the Muslims threatened violence in retaliation. Basically they're doing their best to try to prove the cartoons right.

Actually the cartoon was saying that all Muslims are violent and that Islam is based on violence. The cartoonist was blatantly trying to provoke a reaction, as can be seen by the fact they commited a Muslim blasphemy and insulted their prophet.

link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4661572.stm)

Still sounds like a Fathers4Justice level occurence to me.
Really? Bursting into an office armed to the teeth and presumably holding people hostage for half an hour while you get your message across is the equivalent of dressing up as Superman and climbing up a crane?

Really? Bursting into an office armed to the teeth and presumably holding people hostage for half an hour while you get your message across is the equivalent of dressing up as Superman and climbing up a crane?

If everybody in the country is armed to the teeth, then armed to the teeth is the status quo.

If that happened in the US or Canada, I'd say it was an act of violence. In Gaza, walking around with an AK-47 or a RPG launcher is as normal as walking your dog.

If everybody in the country is armed to the teeth, then armed to the teeth is the status quo.

If that happened in the US or Canada, I'd say it was an act of violence. In Gaza, walking around with an AK-47 or a RPG launcher is as normal as walking your dog.

If status quo be a legal defense, said cartoonist has the right to taunt and insult muslims as he pleases, within the law. That being the status quo in Denmark.

People have the right to boycott whatever they want, I personally boycott Coca-Cola in protest at their anti-union action in South America.
I agree and I think that's exactly what would have happened if Christians had been offended and indignant Christians the world over would have refused to buy the newspaper responsible. However in this circumstance Muslims are boycotting not only the newspaper but any company whose only link to the newspaper is the coincidence of being based in the same country. Not only that you have governments making foreign policy decisions based on the content of a privately owned newspaper. Like I said, a far mor extreme example.

If everybody in the country is armed to the teeth, then armed to the teeth is the status quo.

If that happened in the US or Canada, I'd say it was an act of violence. In Gaza, walking around with an AK-47 or a RPG launcher is as normal as walking your dog.

In some areas of the US, driving around without a rifle in the back window of your truck gets you suspicious glances.

If status quo be a legal defense, said cartoonist has the right to taunt and insult muslims as he pleases, within the law. That being the status quo in Denmark.

Sure he has the right to, in the same way that Muslims have the right to boycott Danish goods, protest against the cartoon and withdraw ambassadors from Denmark if they want to.

If status quo be a legal defense, said cartoonist has the right to taunt and insult muslims as he pleases, within the law. That being the status quo in Denmark.

Agreed! However, is it also the status quo in Denmark that if you insult somebody, or a group of somebodies, that there should be no reaction?

Sure he has the right to, in the same way that Muslims have the right to boycott Danish goods, protest against the cartoon and withdraw ambassadors from Denmark if they want to.
Of course people have the right to boycott whatever they want. I could just now pick a company at random and decide that I'm no longer going to purchase anything from them. The big question isn't whether the Muslims concerned have the right to boycott Denmark, but whether that is a reasonable and proportionate response to a throwaway cartoon in one of the country's newspapers.

Agreed! However, is it also the status quo in Denmark that if you insult somebody, or a group of somebodies, that there should be no reaction?

*grin* a Dane responds by mercilessly lampooning the originator!

Of course people have the right to boycott whatever they want. I could just now pick a company at random and decide that I'm no longer going to purchase anything from them. The big question isn't whether the Muslims concerned have the right to boycott Denmark, but whether that is a reasonable and proportionate response to a throwaway cartoon in one of the country's newspapers.

It isn't really a throwaway cartoon, it's pretty clear that the cartoonist was trying to provoke a response and cause offence.

It isn't really a throwaway cartoon, it's pretty clear that the cartoonist was trying to provoke a response and cause offence.
You say it's pretty clear, but I don't see any evidence of that. I didn't know until this blew up that depictions of Mohammed were taboo in Islam. Granted he was aiming to provoke, but not necessarily in the way he succeeded.

You say it's pretty clear, but I don't see any evidence of that. I didn't know until this blew up that depictions of Mohammed were taboo in Islam. Granted he was aiming to provoke, but not necessarily in the way he succeeded.

Why should HE take islamic taboos into account?
Has Islam become the state religion of Denmark while I wasn't watching?

You say it's pretty clear, but I don't see any evidence of that. I didn't know until this blew up that depictions of Mohammed were taboo in Islam. Granted he was aiming to provoke, but not necessarily in the way he succeeded.

It is fairly common knowlege that Islam considers imagfes of Mohammed to be blasphemous, I'm not sure if the same protection applies to other prophets.

Why should HE take islamic taboos into account?
Has Islam become the state religion of Denmark while I wasn't watching?

He doesn't have to, he has freedom of speech. However, if he offends people then he must deal with the consequences of his actions.

He doesn't have to, he has freedom of speech. However, if he offends people then he must deal with the consequences of his actions.


Within the Laws of the country under whose jurisdiction he lives and works.
And no other standards at all.

It is EXACTLY the attempt of muslims to hold him to other standards that makes this an all and out US vz THEM issue.





ARTICLE II -- You do not have the right to never be offended.

This country is based on freedom, and that means the freedom for everyone, not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the world is full of idiots and probably always will be.

Within the Laws of the country under whose jurisdiction he lives and works.
And no other standards at all.

It is EXACTLY the attempt of muslims to hold him to other standards that makes this an all and out US vz THEM issue.





ARTICLE II -- You do not have the right to never be offended.

This country is based on freedom, and that means the freedom for everyone, not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the world is full of idiots and probably always will be.

I'm sorry what are you ranting about now?

I've agreed that he had every right to draw the cartoon. However, you cannot seriously expect Muslims to completely ignore a direct insult to them and their prophet, they are acting legally and I cannot see the problem.

Obviously the muslims would be offended by that. It doesn't mean they don't have a sense of humor.

I'm sorry what are you ranting about now?

I've agreed that he had every right to draw the cartoon. However, you cannot seriously expect Muslims to completely ignore a direct insult to them and their prophet, they are acting legally and I cannot see the problem.

So bursting into offices with an RPG is legal then?

You either stand with the cartoonist, Theo van Gogh, Salman Rushdie and the rest of that lot... or you stand with the other lot. Plain and simple. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

So bursting into offices with an RPG is legal then?

You either stand with the cartoonist, Theo van Gogh, Salman Rushdie and the rest of that lot... or you stand with the other lot. Plain and simple. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

I never condoned that action, although some people on this thread blew that out of all proportion ("OMG!!! THEY'RE KILLING EVERYONE!!1!).

And why do you have to make it such a black and white issue? I've already stated (several times...) that I support the right of people to make offensive cartoons/films etc. but I also support the right of people to protest, boycott, and perform any other form of legal dissent. Is that really so hard to understand?

I never condoned that action, although some people on this thread blew that out of all proportion ("OMG!!! THEY'RE KILLING EVERYONE!!1!).

And why do you have to make it such a black and white issue? I've already stated (several times...) that I support the right of people to make offensive cartoons/films etc. but I also support the right of people to protest, boycott, and perform any other form of legal dissent. Is that really so hard to understand?


Because we live in a dualistic Universe, in which there is only black and white.

Because we live in a dualistic Universe, in which there is only black and white.

Is it my fault if you're colour-blind? Life is hardly ever black and white and if it was nobody would choose the wrong side.

I never condoned that action, although some people on this thread blew that out of all proportion ("OMG!!! THEY'RE KILLING EVERYONE!!1!).

You didnt condone it, but you did try to dismiss it. You can't on the one hand say that these individuals don't reflect the views of most muslims and on the other be perfectly happy with a Denmark-wide boycott for the actions of one newspaper.

You didnt condone it, but you did try to dismiss it.

Yes because it'd been vastly exhagerated by certain posters to try and support their claim that Muslims across the world were starting a huge wave of blood and murder.

You can't on the one hand say that these individuals don't reflect the views of most muslims and on the other be perfectly happy with a Denmark-wide boycott for the actions of one newspaper.

Eh?

I'm not really eager to jump into this particular fray, as I already spent enough time keeping out of discussions regarding this whole mess on other forums. But as a Muslim perhaps I should help provide a little insight as to why so many people got pissed because of those cartoons.

Muslims are supposed to think of God and Mohammed (PBUH) in an entirely spiritual form, not in any form of physical personification.

The reason why any drawings or such of them are considered annoying at the least, and gravely offensive at most to the majority of Muslims is because the mind will automatically associate said images, no matter how humorous or satirical they're supposed to be, to Allah and Mohammed. And thus, every time one prays or hears of the name of Allah or Mohammed mentioned, the image that will be conjured up in their mind's eye won't be of a formless spirit, but of a crude cartoon.

It's a bit more deep than that, but not exactly easy to put into words :(

And just to be clear, not every damn Muslim in the world is calling for the heads of the caricaturists or finds the drawings horrifying, I find them tasteless at worst.


Thanks for that. It helps to have somebody who's on the inside / other side of the controversy explain what the problem is. I guess you could compare this to Christians getting pissed off at the Monty Python team, over their depictions of God in Holy Grail, also Brian ("He's not the Messiah! He's a very naughty boy!" (sorry)) in Life of Brian.
Also, I found another occasion where this sort of controversy took place with far less justification: a film called Mohammed, Messenger of God, made in 1976, caused great controversy at the time, despite the fact it doesn't actually show the Prophet at all. See http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/6305020108/203-7361031-1779904

Yes because it'd been vastly exhagerated by certain posters to try and support their claim that Muslims across the world were starting a huge wave of blood and murder.

Nope. what happened was that you said

"no acts of violence have been carried out as a result of the cartoon. Unless you can show otherwise you must admit that you are wrong."

Then i gave you the example of the armed takeover of the EU office which you dismissed as a violent act by describing it as "they just milled about outside the office for a bit then went home" and "a Fathers4Justice level occurence". It was only in response to your blinkered view that people tried to explain the violence inherent in the situation.
Eh?
Sorry I was just trying to fill in some logical gaps in your argument although I do believe I mistook what someone else said as you having said it. You seem eager to distance your support for the Muslim side of the issue from the violent acts of a minority, however you advocate the whole of Denmark being treated and suffering boycott as though they are represented by the newspaper which published the cartoons.

Nope. what happened was that you said

"no acts of violence have been carried out as a result of the cartoon. Unless you can show otherwise you must admit that you are wrong."

Then i gave you the example of the armed takeover of the EU office which you dismissed as a violent act by describing it as "they just milled about outside the office for a bit then went home" and "a Fathers4Justice level occurence". It was only in response to your blinkered view that people tried to explain the violence inherent in the situation.

Well it's hardly a serious 'act of violence' in the way that some people were comparing it too suicide bombing.

Sorry I was just trying to fill in some logical gaps in your argument although I do believe I mistook what someone else said as you having said it. You seem eager to distance your support for the Muslim side of the issue from the violent acts of a minority, however you advocate the whole of Denmark being treated and suffering boycott as though they are represented by the newspaper which published the cartoons.

Well I doubt the majority of Muslims buy the magasine in question so boycotting that wouldn't really have much effect. The magasine can publish and have every right to. The muslims can boycott and have every right to.

I'm not really eager to jump into this particular fray, as I already spent enough time keeping out of discussions regarding this whole mess on other forums. But as a Muslim perhaps I should help provide a little insight as to why so many people got pissed because of those cartoons.

Muslims are supposed to think of God and Mohammed (PBUH) in an entirely spiritual form, not in any form of physical personification.

The reason why any drawings or such of them are considered annoying at the least, and gravely offensive at most to the majority of Muslims is because the mind will automatically associate said images, no matter how humorous or satirical they're supposed to be, to Allah and Mohammed. And thus, every time one prays or hears of the name of Allah or Mohammed mentioned, the image that will be conjured up in their mind's eye won't be of a formless spirit, but of a crude cartoon.

It's a bit more deep than that, but not exactly easy to put into words :(

And just to be clear, not every damn Muslim in the world is calling for the heads of the caricaturists or finds the drawings horrifying, I find them tasteless at worst.


Respect to your standings

But tell me: What do you think the Danish people think when they see Muslims burning their flag and portraits of their primeminister, while yelling out
that Islam will be the death of Denmark?

Wouldn´t that offend them too and if yes? is that OK

Look, Muslims DON'T have to compromise with your opinions and be "less-serious about their religion" [to the person who started this thread]

But tell me: What do you think the Danish people think when they see Muslims burning their flag and portraits of their primeminister, while yelling out
that Islam will be the death of Denmark?

Which came first ... the cartoons or the flag burning and boycotting?

Look, Muslims DON'T have to compromise with your opinions and be "less-serious about their religion" [to the person who started this thread]
If they're going to make death threats every time their little feelings get hurt then yeah, they do.

If they're going to make death threats every time their little feelings get hurt then yeah, they do.

Only a small minority of Muslims are doing so, the vast majority are protesting peacefully.

Only a small minority of Muslims are doing so, the vast majority are protesting peacefully.
So let 'em protest. That's their right. As for that small minority, hunt them down and kill them. I don't like people using threats of violence to muzzle free speech.

Which came first ... the cartoons or the flag burning and boycotting?


You seems to have lost the point!

Just because other people does things you dont like, Do not give you an excuse for behaving stupid!!!!

Do you cross the street for a red light just because you see somebody else do it?

And by the way, it seems a bit odd to demand an excuse for beeing offended
when you have just offended the other part ?

I think I will boycott Danish goods myself.
I might copy the cartoons and take them to the Islamic Center and ask them to Boycott, maybe the UNited Methodists too, they seem to be very inclusive.

The fact of the matter we defend the rights of half wit dullards to be safe from the occasional religious who might wish for their child to allowed some reasonable excercise of thier faith, but when a people who are being ostricized by the global community by the actions of the media and the West because of the radical actions of fanatical zealots we shrug our shoulders and say get sense of humor.

Piss on that.

Western society is too one sided, the apathetic approach of Eurocentric Neo-Hedonist scum-f*cks who see nothing but humor in defacing a culture then cry foul when a fuss is made over make me sick.

But keep laughing and pointing---a continued lack of solidarity is what this world needs.

But they are the backwards ones right.

you're a ****. get a life.

You seems to have lost the point!

Just because other people does things you dont like, Do not give you an excuse for behaving stupid!!!!

Do you cross the street for a red light just because you see somebody else do it?

And by the way, it seems a bit odd to demand an excuse for beeing offended
when you have just offended the other part ?
amen. someone with sense!

Actually the cartoon was saying that all Muslims are violent and that Islam is based on violence. The cartoonist was blatantly trying to provoke a reaction, as can be seen by the fact they commited a Muslim blasphemy and insulted their prophet.


Really ?

How the h... do you know that, and if you believe that the danes think of all muslims as terrorists, you havent been here.

Please think before you make statements for other people

You seems to have lost the point!

Not really.

Just because other people does things you dont like, Do not give you an excuse for behaving stupid!!!!

Not entirely accurate an assessment. I have the right to burn a flag if that flag's nation tell me to "just get over it" if a newspaper in that nation does something offensive to me.

Do you cross the street for a red light just because you see somebody else do it?

Ummm ... obviously not.

And by the way, it seems a bit odd to demand an excuse for beeing offended when you have just offended the other part ?

Not what I said. Newspaper prints offensive cartoons, Muslims say, "HEY!", Newspaper's country of origin (and others in solidarity) says, "Get over it.", Muslims say, "Fine. We boycott you."

A few nuts say, "We'll kill you", but those are very few and far between and very far removed from how the rest of us feel. They're just the ones getting all the media attention.

you're a ****. get a life.

Nanic is correct in his sayings.

I get the amazingly strong sense that this thread has brought in a *lot* of puppets.

I think, therefore, I shall consider this topic closed to me.

Only a small minority of Muslims are doing so, the vast majority are protesting peacefully.


Off course, and the boycotting group of middle eastern countries are only boycotting the minority of people in Denmark who disbelieves of Muslims

clearly

I don't quite understand that, but Nanic has a point.

Western emphasis on Muslims and Terrorists just makes the General Public think Muslims = Terrorists and Islam = Unpeaceful Religion.

Although the Media does tell the truth (sometimes) the true message doesn't hit all of us.

EDIT - Does Denmark have a valid reason to make fun of Islam? No.

Are the cartoons sparking public anger and humor for some people including the Newspaper-Staff? Yes.

I don't quite understand that, but Nanic has a point.

Western emphasis on Muslims and Terrorists just makes the General Public think Muslims = Terrorists and Islam = Unpeaceful Religion.

Although the Media does tell the truth (sometimes) the true message doesn't hit all of us.

EDIT - Does Denmark have a valid reason to make fun of Islam? No.

Are the cartoons sparking public anger and humor for some people including the Newspaper-Staff? Yes.
Freedom of speech is a funny thing. Did Larry Flynt have a good reason to say that rev. Jerry Falwell had sex with his own mother in an outhouse in a parody of an advertisement? Larry sure thought he did. The cartoonist probably thought he had a damn good reason to draw Muhammad with a bomb on his head.

It's not for the public to decide if someone has a reason to say what he wants or draw what he wants because that opens the door to censorship of unpopular ideas. It's unpopular ideas that have pushed mankind foreward.

I get the amazingly strong sense that this thread has brought in a *lot* of puppets.

I think, therefore, I shall consider this topic closed to me.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts

Please remember that in Denmark the goverment can´t in any way intervene nor decide what the papers write nor print. Thats simply the law!

you havent heard anyone from the gov. nor any official office say: get over it.

We have blasphemy laws and anti racism laws and any case can be tried before a jugde, but nobody did that!!!

The tenet of free speech is funded deep in our society and protected by law, therefore evrything is up for discussion by everybody

Greetings

Freedom of speech is a funny thing. Did Larry Flynt have a good reason to say that rev. Jerry Falwell had sex with his own mother in an outhouse in a parody of an advertisement? Larry sure thought he did. The cartoonist probably thought he had a damn good reason to draw Muhammad with a bomb on his head.

It's not for the public to decide if someone has a reason to say what he wants or draw what he wants because that opens the door to censorship of unpopular ideas. It's unpopular ideas that have pushed mankind foreward.


Well said