NationStates Jolt Archive

Yolanda Reese: "Uh, I'm having trouble with scene 27. It says I'm out of phase, so I can pass my hand through solid matter, or walk through walls."

Director: "Yeah, yeah, cos you're out of phase."

Martin Lloyd: "Um, exactly."

Yolanda Reese: "So, how come I don't fall through the floor?"

Long pause, with Director and Martin staring at each other

Martin Lloyd: "We'll have to get back to you on that."

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In many Science Fiction movies and TV shows, from Star Trek to StarGate, there is inevitably a point where some character becomes 'out of phase' with the rest of reality, intentionally or otherwise, and becomes intangible to matter on our phase. They can not manipulate objects, solid matter offers no hindrance to their movement, and they are invisible to our eyes and ears. So then why the hell don't they fall through the floor?

In fact, there's more than just that. How can they breathe? The last time I checked oxygen, though a gas, is matter and, since we can utilize it, it must be on our phase. Therefore, how can their bodies utilize it? Why doesn't it simply pass right through their bodies and lungs without any interaction?

And even further, how can they see us? Though always imperceptible by non-phased people and equipment, they can see and hear us without difficulty. If we can't see them because they're phased, whether it's because their phased bodies don't reflect visible light or for some other reason, then shouldn't they be unable to see us, since we're also out of phase with them?

I mean come on, shouldn't a child be able to see these massive plotholes? At least Stargate: SG1 acknowledges this lack of common sense and mocks it, as seen in this posts opening dialogue, but so many more SciFi series don't. Why not?

Yolanda Reese: "Uh, I'm having trouble with scene 27. It says I'm out of phase, so I can pass my hand through solid matter, or walk through walls."

Director: "Yeah, yeah, cos you're out of phase."

Martin Lloyd: "Um, exactly."

Yolanda Reese: "So, how come I don't fall through the floor?"

Long pause, with Director and Martin staring at each other

Martin Lloyd: "We'll have to get back to you on that."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

In many Science Fiction movies and TV shows, from Star Trek to StarGate, there is inevitably a point where some character becomes 'out of phase' with the rest of reality, intentionally or otherwise, and becomes intangible to matter on our phase. They can not manipulate objects, solid matter offers no hindrance to their movement, and they are invisible to our eyes and ears. So then why the hell don't they fall through the floor?

In fact, there's more than just that. How can they breathe? The last time I checked oxygen, though a gas, is matter and, since we can utilize it, it must be on our phase. Therefore, how can their bodies utilize it? Why doesn't it simply pass right through their bodies and lungs without any interaction?

And even further, how can they see us? Though always imperceptible by non-phased people and equipment, they can see and hear us without difficulty. If we can't see them because they're phased, whether it's because their phased bodies don't reflect visible light or for some other reason, then shouldn't they be unable to see us, since we're also out of phase with them?

I mean come on, shouldn't a child be able to see these massive plotholes? At least Stargate: SG1 acknowledges this lack of common sense and mocks it, as seen in this posts opening dialogue, but so many more SciFi series don't. Why not?
"Willfull suspension of disbelief"

I'll give you the same answer I give everyone when they ask why something in a movie is a certain way. It's in the script.:D

uhhhhh........

its because when you are out of phase you dont have any weight in the universe you are no longer standing in. gravity doesnt effect you so you dont fall through the floor. you only go through the walls because you act to move through the wall. you also bring a supply of out-of-phase oxygen with you so you can breathe it. the real question is why dont they end up floating in mid-air and why doesnt their oxygen run out?

they see US because they expect to. its a brain function thing. WE dont see them because we have no pattern recognition for it AND no expectation to see out-of-phase people.

i cant believe you dont know this stuff!

Gravity does effect them, you see people ride elevators, hop down from high spaces, etc. If there was no gravity then, when their elevator went down, they'd continue to float instead of following the floor. There's no reason to believe they bring their own supply of oxygen with them since their surroundings are never phased with them (No pieces of the floor or walls). I suppose whatevers in their lungs goes with them, but that's only one single breaths worth.

And why would they expect to see us and we not expect to see them? I've never seen an intentional phase-shift, it's always accidental and quite often the non-phased don't know it's happened, they therefor continue to expect to see the people.

Erm...

*Thinks*

M-theory? One's phase is the relative position of the displacement of his oscillating p-branes? Since gravity on a ship is artificial, the floor doesn't have the same frequency as the rest of the ship? Matter out of phase exists, but is merely as permittive as free space? People can see light lagging behind but not light ahead of our own phase in matter oscillations?

Either that or it's all just made up. >_>

You're that guy who ruins sci-fi stories by pointing out plot holes, aren't you? I bet your friends love going to the movies with you.

Actually, believe it or not, people often find it quite irritating when I point out these tiny insignificant matters that others would rather not even bother to acknowledge. I know, I can't believe it either.

Here's the Dungeons and Dragons answer: people out of phase are in a different plane of existence. This plane has the sounds and light from the real world, while the real world doesn't have its sounds or lights. It also has its own breathable atmosphere. While the D&D version has no gravity, one with gravity could simply happen to have surfaces in similar places, for the same reason the oxygen and light are there.

two words: plot nessisity.

For the most part modern sci-fi shows seem to do a pretty good job sticking to reality, even going to the lenths of hiring "qualified professionals" (aka people with degrees) to write up their "techno-babel", find plausable explinations for their technology, that kinda thing. But there comes a point when you have to make some sacrafices in order to get on with the story.

Look at it this way, sci-fi isnt just around for the flashy graphics, it exists as a way for us to explore humanity, through the context fantasy. Take the TNG episode "The Next Phase" (season 5 #24 if anyone is interested). Two of the crew are pronounced "dead" after an accident "pushes" them "out of phase", and they spend the rest of the episode trying to get back "in phase". Lame plot, right? well thats not the point, the point is that the episode gives us a chance to look at our cultures views on death and the afterlife, through the eyes of the "dead", and that just couldent happen if they were to buisy sufficating or falling through the ship now could it?

Gravity does effect them, you see people ride elevators, hop down from high spaces, etc. If there was no gravity then, when their elevator went down, they'd continue to float instead of following the floor. There's no reason to believe they bring their own supply of oxygen with them since their surroundings are never phased with them (No pieces of the floor or walls). I suppose whatevers in their lungs goes with them, but that's only one single breaths worth.

And why would they expect to see us and we not expect to see them? I've never seen an intentional phase-shift, it's always accidental and quite often the non-phased don't know it's happened, they therefor continue to expect to see the people.
says YOU.

of course it does depend on HOW they are out of phase and HOW they got that way. i see no reason to not suppose that they are constantly bringing new air into their "phase" since they are obviously not utterly out of phase, just enough to make them unnoticible to the other people around them.

i am NOT responsible for sloppy script writing. in a couple of star trek episodes that come to mind, they are out of phase in that they are somehow sped up to a rate that their movements are too fast for their colleagues to see them. they are at the mercy of other people opening doors and running elevators for them.

again depending on how they got out of phase, they still expect to see the people around them, so they do. normally its in some kind of altered form. (i am still not responsible for sloppy script writing) WE dont see them because we have no expectation to. what? you never caught "what the <heck> do we know?"?? all vision is a matter of expectation and pattern recognition. without that we dont see anything.

Maybe their bodies have disappeared to another phase of existence where it's kept in stasis, and the experiences of the out-of-phase person are actually that of their conciousness being left behind, so they're sort of like a ghost.

The apparent effect of gravity on them is actually an illusion occuring because people are so used to standing on something that they automatically align their conciousness to 'stand' on the floor. With concious effor they could probably go through a floor, too.

[/on-the-spot drivel]

Yolanda Reese: "Uh, I'm having trouble with scene 27. It says I'm out of phase, so I can pass my hand through solid matter, or walk through walls."

Director: "Yeah, yeah, cos you're out of phase."

Martin Lloyd: "Um, exactly."

Yolanda Reese: "So, how come I don't fall through the floor?"

Long pause, with Director and Martin staring at each other

Martin Lloyd: "We'll have to get back to you on that."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

In many Science Fiction movies and TV shows, from Star Trek to StarGate, there is inevitably a point where some character becomes 'out of phase' with the rest of reality, intentionally or otherwise, and becomes intangible to matter on our phase. They can not manipulate objects, solid matter offers no hindrance to their movement, and they are invisible to our eyes and ears. So then why the hell don't they fall through the floor?

In fact, there's more than just that. How can they breathe? The last time I checked oxygen, though a gas, is matter and, since we can utilize it, it must be on our phase. Therefore, how can their bodies utilize it? Why doesn't it simply pass right through their bodies and lungs without any interaction?

And even further, how can they see us? Though always imperceptible by non-phased people and equipment, they can see and hear us without difficulty. If we can't see them because they're phased, whether it's because their phased bodies don't reflect visible light or for some other reason, then shouldn't they be unable to see us, since we're also out of phase with them?

I mean come on, shouldn't a child be able to see these massive plotholes? At least Stargate: SG1 acknowledges this lack of common sense and mocks it, as seen in this posts opening dialogue, but so many more SciFi series don't. Why not?
Funny how many times this comes up.
The integration of the term "phase" in Sci-Fi hasn't done it much justice, since there aren't many applications with accuracy.
I will say that i liked the part i bolded .... (agreed) ...
And, i think you're probably consciously or not representing that episode of ST:TNG with Ensign Ro and Geordi. That pissed me off too. Why would their feet be the only things still in phase with the deck plates (artificial gravity? well, then the feet would end up dis-integrating from the soles,). Even talking about set speed doesn't work.

i had the same qualms about that "the next phase" episode in STTNG. if they where out of phase, walking would not work neither would breathing.
i think it could work for a whole ship though, like the phasing cloak in moo2.

i had the same qualms about that "the next phase" episode in STTNG. if they where out of phase, walking would not work neither would breathing.
i think it could work for a whole ship though, like the phasing cloak in moo2.

Even more than the walking problem, if they're out of phase and the ship is moving, would it not leave them behind in deep space?

Even more than the walking problem, if they're out of phase and the ship is moving, would it not leave them behind in deep space?no, that could be explained by saying the effects of the Inertial Dampening Field do reach objects, that are out of phase. the acceleration of the ship after all is not relayed to the crew by them being pressed into chairs or so (they wouldnt survive the enormous g forces) but the IDF.

From the MST3K theme song:

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes
And other science facts
Repeat to yourself, "It's just a show,
I should really just relax."

I would, but if I let this go and "relax" I'll need to accept those damn phasers and Real-Space FTL as well, and those just make my head hurt.