NationStates Jolt Archive

The use of the word "gay" has gone from meaning happy, to homosexual and now in some places gay has been twisted to mean bad or uncool. Now Fass, don't get angry over this, but please, share how you feel about the new use of the word which (I think) is spreading quite quickly.
Personally, I don't really like using 'gay' to describe something, as it doesn't quite seem right. How do you feel about the use of it? Do you use it often? Does anyone still use it to describe being happy?
Do you even care?

The use of the word "gay" has gone from meaning happy, to homosexual and now in some places gay has been twisted to mean bad or uncool. Now Fass, don't get angry over this, but please, share how you feel about the new use of the word which (I think) is spreading quite quickly.
Personally, I don't really like using 'gay' to describe something, as it doesn't quite seem right. How do you feel about the use of it? Do you use it often? Does anyone still use it to describe being happy?
Do you even care?

I find that the use of 'gay' as a negative is already going out of style. Not gone, mind, but is less present than before. I usually only use it to describe homosexuals, since it's shorter for saying and typing. Now, what I'd REALLY like to know is how people managed to make happy = homosexual.

The use of the word "gay" has gone from meaning happy, to homosexual and now in some places gay has been twisted to mean bad or uncool. Now Fass, don't get angry over this, but please, share how you feel about the new use of the word which (I think) is spreading quite quickly.
Personally, I don't really like using 'gay' to describe something, as it doesn't quite seem right. How do you feel about the use of it? Do you use it often? Does anyone still use it to describe being happy?
Do you even care?

I use it occasionally; I'm not a homophobe or anything, and I do it without realising it most of the time. I do realise that it isn't exactly the best word to use, but when you think about it; we can't call something happpy 'gay' anymore because of the homosexuals (not that I blame them or anything, but now that word means homosexual more than happy). We also can't use queer, either...

Now, what I'd REALLY like to know is how people managed to make happy = homosexual.

Indeed.

I use it to describe happy sometimes.
And when people use it as an insult, I tend to play dumb and insist either that "oh yes, I am happy" or "well, except that I like men..."

I use the term "gay" to describe things that I don't like, things that piss me off, and other things of that nature. I frankly don't see how homosexuals can get pissed off at it's use considering they stole the term in the first place. Same with fag. The original meaning of a fag is a cigarette, but it was stolen by bigots to make fun of homosexuals.

The way I figure it, as long as I don't use the term to directly disparage homosexuals (which I don't) then they don't have a right to bitch about it. It isn't their word to keep.

I use it to describe happy sometimes.
And when people use it as an insult, I tend to play dumb and insist either that "oh yes, I am happy" or "well, except that I like men..."
Ahh yes.. The ol' 'gay' insult. A favourite of 12 year olds.

I use the term "gay" to describe things that I don't like, things that piss me off, and other things of that nature. I frankly don't see how homosexuals can get pissed off at it's use considering they stole the term in the first place. Same with fag. The original meaning of a fag is a cigarette, but it was stolen by bigots to make fun of homosexuals.

The way I figure it, as long as I don't use the term to directly disparage homosexuals (which I don't) then they don't have a right to bitch about it. It isn't their word to keep.

I tend to agree with you.

this thread is gay

I don't think I'd use it to mean happy, although possibly to mean bright (as in colour).

Personally, I don't use it as a derogatory term, although I used to. I'm not really sure why I stopped. I know people that do use it though, and I don't care (not that I would really have reason to)

Sometimes, I think people forget that words can have more than one meaning. Especially words like gay

I think using 'gay' in its original sense is the best, its kinda archaic, makes you feel like its 1900 or something. Its pretty poor taste to use in a pejorative way though

The use of the word "gay" has gone from meaning happy, to homosexual and now in some places gay has been twisted to mean bad or uncool. Now Fass, don't get angry over this, but please, share how you feel about the new use of the word which (I think) is spreading quite quickly.
Personally, I don't really like using 'gay' to describe something, as it doesn't quite seem right. How do you feel about the use of it? Do you use it often? Does anyone still use it to describe being happy?
Do you even care? don't like when any word is 'Converted' to mean something Negative.

Fag was once a cigerette, (and I believe it was, before that, to describe fuel for campfires.)
Gay meant happy and festive.

this thread is gay
Was waiting for that, heh.

I use it occasionally; I'm not a homophobe or anything, and I do it without realising it most of the time. I do realise that it isn't exactly the best word to use, but when you think about it; we can't call something happpy 'gay' anymore because of the homosexuals (not that I blame them or anything, but now that word means homosexual more than happy). We also can't use queer, either...
I used it usually to describe things that where overly affectatious or unneccisarily 'theatrical,' for lack of a better term, which is really why I used it, I didn't have a better term. I wasn't calling it bad or uncool, I was calling it that. But, that's still not great and so now I just use 'goony.' It's not as good, really, but what'ya gonna do.

I once read somewhere that the term "gay" has been used as a term for homosexual since at least the 17th Century, and it is only since homosexuality has become more accepted that it is now being more widely used.

I used it usually to describe things that where overly affectatious or unneccisarily 'theatrical,' for lack of a better term, which is really why I used it, I didn't have a better term. I wasn't calling it bad or uncool, I was calling it that. But, that's still not great and so now I just use 'goony.' It's not as good, really, but what'ya gonna do.
I offended some good friends by saying 'gay' too much. So now I just say dick instead, or something equally lame and stupid.

I use the term "gay" to describe things that I don't like, things that piss me off, and other things of that nature. I frankly don't see how homosexuals can get pissed off at it's use considering they stole the term in the first place. Same with fag. The original meaning of a fag is a cigarette, but it was stolen by bigots to make fun of homosexuals.

The way I figure it, as long as I don't use the term to directly disparage homosexuals (which I don't) then they don't have a right to bitch about it. It isn't their word to keep.
You're saying how things that you don't like or things that piss you off are gay. They are gay. You are associating things that piss you off and you don't like with gayness and gay people by using the word. You don't see how they could take that badly?

Ahh yes.. The ol' 'gay' insult. A favourite of 12 year olds.
My 20 year old sister seems to like using it. And fag. She likes to call me both on a regular basis and then get angry when I use their old definitions. She has some issues with anger.

My 20 year old sister seems to like using it. And fag. She likes to call me both on a regular basis and then get angry when I use their old definitions. She has some issues with anger.
Hmm, I didn't know it had spread that far. Sucks.

You're saying how things that you don't like or things that piss you off are gay. They are gay. You are associating things that piss you off and you don't like with gayness and gay people by using the word. You don't see how they could take that badly?

my vacuum cleaner doesn't get offended when I say something sucks :p


And neither does my girlfriend ;)

I offended some good friends by saying 'gay' too much. So now I just say dick instead, or something equally lame and stupid.
I work a lot in the theater, so if I go around calling too many things gay it's not going to go well for me.

Dick is something else for me. Dick is (and I never thought about what this implied before) something that causes unneccisary hassle just for the sake of causing hassle, like when someone is being a dick they're just hassling you because they can, just to be a dick.

I have plenty of words for 'uncool,' including but not limited to 'uncool.' The variety of words are to describe a variety of specific conditions, like my previously described former use of gay and currnet use of gooney, or my description of what I use 'dick' for. A 'dick' is slightly different than an 'ass,' but it would take a while to go into the nuance of the differences. But you get my point, rich tapestry of slang.

I don't care what people want to say when they use the word gay. And I hate homosexuals who feel offended by it, damn all my friends call me gay/fag/queer whatever.. I mean it's just for fun, it's not like they want to offend me or any other homosexual..
This is why my account is called The Holy Empire of The Homosexual Pope, just to mock with those homosexuals who take these words way to seriously.

You're saying how things that you don't like or things that piss you off are gay. They are gay. You are associating things that piss you off and you don't like with gayness and gay people by using the word. You don't see how they could take that badly?
No, I'm not associating things I hate with homosexuals anymore than I'm associating things I hate with being happy.

If someone thinks I'm associating homosexuals with bad things, then they are the one with the problems. I don't discriminate against people. I don't deny people any rights that I myself would want. I don't hurt people for who they are. BUT, I do, however, call things that piss me off GAY!

Gay = Bad
Gay /=/ Homosexual

I don't care what people want to say when they use the word gay. And I hate homosexuals who feel offended by it, damn all my friends call me gay/fag/queer whatever.. I mean it's just for fun, it's not like they want to offend me or any other homosexual..
This is why my account is called The Holy Empire of The Homosexual Pope, just to mock with those homosexuals who take these words way to seriously.
I think maybe when you don't know when those words are going to be spit at you right before being hit with a bat by someone who hasn't sorted out his own insecurities about his sexuality you might start to become a little sensitve to how the word is used. Can have an effect.

I think maybe when you don't know when those words are going to be spit at you right before being hit with a bat by someone who hasn't sorted out his own insecurities about his sexuality you might start to become a little sensitve to how the word is used. Can have an effect.

But what if he called you a cheese sandwich? You gonna get pissed off every time I eat a cheese sandwich?

No, I'm not associating things I hate with homosexuals anymore than I'm associating things I hate with being happy.

If someone thinks I'm associating homosexuals with bad things, then they are the one with the problems. I don't discriminate against people. I don't deny people any rights that I myself would want. I don't hurt people for who they are. BUT, I do, however, call things that piss me off GAY!

Gay = Bad
Gay /=/ Homosexual
Words are not a one way street. You can decide that when you say "pepper" it means "avocado," that doesn't mean it's everyone elses fault that they keep thinking you mean pepper. Gay has a meaning, you use it as a deragotory people are still going to associate it with homosexuals as well. That's not 'their problem,' they're using the same language as everyone else and not the special 'pepper means avocado' language that you intend.

But what if he called you a cheese sandwich? You gonna get pissed off every time I eat a cheese sandwich?
If that was in anyway implied by what was said...

I use the term "gay" to describe things that I don't like, things that piss me off, and other things of that nature. I frankly don't see how homosexuals can get pissed off at it's use considering they stole the term in the first place. Same with fag. The original meaning of a fag is a cigarette, but it was stolen by bigots to make fun of homosexuals.

The way I figure it, as long as I don't use the term to directly disparage homosexuals (which I don't) then they don't have a right to bitch about it. It isn't their word to keep.

Ohhhhh you crazy heterosexuals. I hope you aren't black, because if you are, that just makes this worse.

If gay weren't widely accepted as meaning homosexual, there wouldn't be a problem with using gay as a negative adjective to describe other things. But, it is, and there is. It doesn't matter whose word it is, it doesn't matter who came up with it, and it doesn't matter in what ways people use it today.

To use it to describe something in a negative light, regardless of what your presonal views are, regardless of where you grew up, regardless of who you know or who you're friends are, is offensive. You know this, I know this, everyone knows this. It doesn't matter if *you* don't consider it offensive, because it is. This is a fact.

Which doesn't change your ability to use it. By all means, go ahead and keep calling things you don't like 'gay'. But don't act like you don't know you're being an offensive bigot by doing so.

Being a gay man, the only way I see in which to use the word 'gay' inoffensively is in describing a person who is, in fact, gay (and no, I don't mean the pansy on the elementary school playground. Please be able to recognize the difference in asserting that someone is actually gay, and making fun of someone with homosexual tendencies) and also, in describing something that is definitive of parts of gay culture. A cher dragqueen parade? Gay. Leather harnesses on sale, 50% off? Gay. Louis Vuitton purses go out of style? Gay. Getting a ticket because you were going +15, and the cop doesn't let you off? Not gay.

If that was in anyway implied by what was said...

You know it was and I'm not just odd and bored

I work a lot in the theater, so if I go around calling too many things gay it's not going to go well for me.

Dick is something else for me. Dick is (and I never thought about what this implied before) something that causes unneccisary hassle just for the sake of causing hassle, like when someone is being a dick they're just hassling you because they can, just to be a dick.

I have plenty of words for 'uncool,' including but not limited to 'uncool.' The variety of words are to describe a variety of specific conditions, like my previously described former use of gay and currnet use of gooney, or my description of what I use 'dick' for. A 'dick' is slightly different than an 'ass,' but it would take a while to go into the nuance of the differences. But you get my point, rich tapestry of slang.

But isn't "Dick" a person's name? Tom, Dick, Harry? Also, there is a superstore that goes by the name "Dick's" as well.

Getting a ticket because you were going +15, and the cop doesn't let you off? Not gay.

It's equally as valid to describe that situation as gay as it would be to describe it as cool if you did get off.

I don't care what people want to say when they use the word gay. And I hate homosexuals who feel offended by it, damn all my friends call me gay/fag/queer whatever.. I mean it's just for fun, it's not like they want to offend me or any other homosexual..

Right, well, you're not gay. Of course it wouldn't offend you.

It's a little different when it's the straight asshole jock and his cronies calling you gay, and laughing as you walk past.

And, say what you want, allowing anyone to use the word for any derogatory means encourages the use of the word 'gay' in the situation I described above.

So, heterosexuals, say what you will about your own use of the word 'gay.' But it is a fact that by doing it yourselves, you are making the homophobes and bigots of the world feel more comfortable in the slander and hate.

It's equally as valid to describe that situation as gay as it would be to describe it as cool if you did get off.

Oh, really? It's valid to describe getting a ticket as gay, because, why? Because being gay is bad? Is that what you're suggesting? Being gay is bad, and getting a ticket is bad, and thus the relation is made?

But isn't "Dick" a person's name? Tom, Dick, Harry? Also, there is a superstore that goes by the name "Dick's" as well.
Tell ya what, when Dicks are beaten to death for being Dicks, when they're excluded from organizations or simply have to 'not tell' that they are named Dick, when Dicks are told they can't marry, well then-we'll split that hair.

Oh, really? It's valid to describe getting a ticket as gay, because, why? Because being gay is bad? Is that's what you're suggesting? Being gay is bad, and getting a ticket is bad, and thus the relation is made?

No. It's because the word "gay" can be used to mean a variety of things, including both "homosexual" and "bad/aggravating/irritating". Seriously, the fuck is wrong with you? Words can mean more than one thing.

Tell it to me straight: are you just making this point to be an ass, or do you seriously believe we shouldn't use the word gay to mean bad?

but I can't say that, can I? because I clearly mean that only straight people ever tell the truth.

I once read somewhere that the term "gay" has been used as a term for homosexual since at least the 17th Century, and it is only since homosexuality has become more accepted that it is now being more widely used.
According to the Oxford English Dictionary (subscription required, so no link), gay was first used specifically to mean homosexual in 1935. However, the use of gay to mean "living a loose or immoral lifestyle" dates back to 1637, and that may be where the current usage stems from.

Tell ya what, when Dicks are beaten to death for being Dicks, when they're excluded from organizations or simply have to 'not tell' that they are named Dick, when Dicks are told they can't marry, well then-we'll split that hair.
Sigh, true.
When someone calls you a dick, they are clearly refering to the male genataila. Not a person, or a superstore.

No. It's because the word "gay" can be used to mean a variety of things, including both "homosexual" and "bad/aggravating/irritating". Seriously, the fuck is wrong with you? Words can mean more than one thing.

Tell it to me straight: are you just making this point to be an ass, or do you seriously believe we shouldn't use the word gay to mean bad?

but I can't say that, can I? because I clearly mean that only straight people ever tell the truth.
You have to ask yourself, why does it mean 'bad.' Because of its association with happiness? Not likely.

Why could it mean bad? Be honest now. It's because of its association with homosexuality. Don't say, "That's all you." That's not being realistic about the usage or how it comes about, that's just sticking your head in the sand. You know that the usage comes from the association.

Sigh, true.
When someone calls you a dick, they are clearly refering to the male genataila. Not a person, or a superstore.
Well, unless your name really is Richard. Then there is some grey area.

Why could it mean bad? Be honest now. It's because of its association with homosexuality. Don't say, "That's all you." That's not being realistic about the usage or how it comes about, that's just sticking your head in the sand. You know that the usage comes from the association.

But the root is unimportant. If we had to care about or know the derivation of every word we used, we'd all spend a lot more time in silence (which might not be a bad thing, but that's another story). Basically, I don't care where the word comes from or what it used to mean, only what it means now. Sure, if it is being used as a derogatory term then that's bad, but if it's not, why not just let it go?

Well, unless your name really is Richard. Then there is some grey area.
Hmm.. But how can being called a dick be offensive to 'Richard'? I think most Richard's are completly aware what the reference is to.

No. It's because the word "gay" can be used to mean a variety of things, including both "homosexual" and "bad/aggravating/irritating". Seriously, the fuck is wrong with you? Words can mean more than one thing.

Tell it to me straight: are you just making this point to be an ass, or do you seriously believe we shouldn't use the word gay to mean bad?

but I can't say that, can I? because I clearly mean that only straight people ever tell the truth.

You live outside of the United States, and as such I can't say for sure that my viewpoint would be accurate for your locale, but where I'm from, it doesn't matter how many other meanings there are for the word 'gay' when one of the meanings is offensive to such a large group of people. It has the capability of offending people, and unless you are capable of judging when and where it is appropriate for use, you shouldn't use it. And, yes, I do mean to suggest that it is okay for some people to say 'gay', and not okay for others. Because some people understand, and are capable of using it in non-offensive ways, and others are simply not.



And as to your little barb with the word 'straight'- let's not be ignorant here, okay? I realize that many, many words have multiple meanings. But there aren't many, many words that have offensive alterior meanings, and that is where the line is drawn.

Tell ya what, when Dicks are beaten to death for being Dicks, when they're excluded from organizations or simply have to 'not tell' that they are named Dick, when Dicks are told they can't marry, well then-we'll split that hair.

However, "dick" is used as a deragotory term as well.

Some examples....

Dick as in the male reproductive organ
Dick-head
Dick-weed
and so on.

Ohhhhh you crazy heterosexuals. I hope you aren't black, because if you are, that just makes this worse.

If gay weren't widely accepted as meaning homosexual, there wouldn't be a problem with using gay as a negative adjective to describe other things. But, it is, and there is. It doesn't matter whose word it is, it doesn't matter who came up with it, and it doesn't matter in what ways people use it today.

To use it to describe something in a negative light, regardless of what your presonal views are, regardless of where you grew up, regardless of who you know or who you're friends are, is offensive. You know this, I know this, everyone knows this. It doesn't matter if *you* don't consider it offensive, because it is. This is a fact.

Which doesn't change your ability to use it. By all means, go ahead and keep calling things you don't like 'gay'. But don't act like you don't know you're being an offensive bigot by doing so.

Being a gay man, the only way I see in which to use the word 'gay' inoffensively is in describing a person who is, in fact, gay (and no, I don't mean the pansy on the elementary school playground. Please be able to recognize the difference in asserting that someone is actually gay, and making fun of someone with homosexual tendencies) and also, in describing something that is definitive of parts of gay culture. A cher dragqueen parade? Gay. Leather harnesses on sale, 50% off? Gay. Louis Vuitton purses go out of style? Gay. Getting a ticket because you were going +15, and the cop doesn't let you off? Not gay.

See, it pays off to actually read through a thread - you already posted everything I wanted to say, perfectly so.


I don't care what people want to say when they use the word gay. And I hate homosexuals who feel offended by it, damn all my friends call me gay/fag/queer whatever.. I mean it's just for fun, it's not like they want to offend me or any other homosexual..
Yes, but the issue here isn't what you think about people using "gay" to describe a gay person or gay culture, but about people using "gay" as a negative adjective in describing people/things they hate.

But the root is unimportant. If we had to care about or know the derivation of every word we used, we'd all spend a lot more time in silence (which might not be a bad thing, but that's another story). Basically, I don't care where the word comes from or what it used to mean, only what it means now. Sure, if it is being used as a derogatory term then that's bad, but if it's not, why not just let it go?
That's what we call willful ignorance. We're not talking about a root or usage of the word that hasn't been in practice for hundreds of years, we're talking about one that is currently in use. So when you use it as a negative you are using it as a deragotory term. Gay is associated with homosexuality in its current use, if you use it as a negative you make an implication about homosexuality because that's what the word is used for, it's what it implies..

However, "dick" is used as a deragotory term as well.

Some examples....

Dick as in the male reproductive organ
Dick-head
Dick-weed
and so on.
I will still split that hair when the stated conditions are met.

When my Uncle Richard says "stop being a dick", it's pretty clear to me what he means. Dick isn't an issue.

Gay is associated with homosexuality in its current use, if you use it as a negative you make an implication about homosexuality because that's what the word is used for, it's what it implies..

Shouldn't it be up to me to decide what the implications I'm making are?

It seems to me that there'a serious persecution complex behind this issue. If you're too insecure and paranoid to realise that maybe I don't give a toss what turns you on and maybe I don't mean anything bad about homosexuals when I use the word "gay", it's hardly my problem.

That's what we call willful ignorance. We're not talking about a root or usage of the word that hasn't been in practice for hundreds of years, we're talking about one that is currently in use. So when you use it as a negative you are using it as a deragotory term. Gay is associated with homosexuality in its current use, if you use it as a negative you make an implication about homosexuality because that's what the word is used for, it's what it implies..

What if common everyday words suddenly became offensive? For example, suppose the words "cookie", "fries", "cheesecake", "sundae" or such suddenly became offensive slangs for / about "fat" people considering that more than 1/3 of all Americans are overweight?

Or what about "pen" or "pencil" becoming offensive in a similiar way- taking on an offensive term describing the male's reproductive organ, or deragotory slang for nerds and dorks... and so on?

See what I'm getting at?

And as to your little barb with the word 'straight'- let's not be ignorant here, okay? I realize that many, many words have multiple meanings. But there aren't many, many words that have offensive alterior meanings, and that is where the line is drawn.

Would you call a child born out of wedlock a "bastard"? Would you call me a bastard if I pissed you off enough?

Shouldn't it be up to me to decide what the implications I'm making are?

It seems to me that there'a serious persecution complex behind this issue. If you're too insecure and paranoid to realise that maybe I don't give a toss what turns you on and maybe I don't mean anything bad about homosexuals when I use the word "gay", it's hardly my problem.

Just because you don't have any necessarily negative, direct implications with your use of the word doesn't mean that others don't. In fact, we all *know* that there are people that use the word 'gay' for that exact purpose, to negatively and directly describe people.

Until the word 'gay' is no longer used as an offensive, derogatory term, it will not be appropriate for the word to be used as a general, negative term.

Just because you don't have any necessarily negative, direct implications with your use of the word doesn't mean that others don't. In fact, we all *know* that there are people that use the word 'gay' for that exact purpose, to negatively and directly describe people.

Until the word 'gay' is no longer used as an offensive, derogatory term, it will not be appropriate for the word to be used as a general, negative term.

So I guess I'm not allowed to tell anyone I eat Mexican food, wear black clothes or own books about the Nazis then either. Thank you for making my life a little bit better.

Shouldn't it be up to me to decide what the implications I'm making are?

It seems to me that there'a serious persecution complex behind this issue. If you're too insecure and paranoid to realise that maybe I don't give a toss what turns you on and maybe I don't mean anything bad about homosexuals when I use the word "gay", it's hardly my problem.
While you're at it you could invent your own little language.

Like I stated before, you can decide that when you say "pepper" you really mean "avocado," but everyone is still going to think you mean pepper, and it's not their fault-that's the language we all use. So you can decide what is being implied but what is actually going to be implied is more up to the common use of the word and less to your intent.

And regular assaults and legislation against someone can certainly bread a certain degree of a sense of persecution...

What if common everyday words suddenly became offensive? For example, suppose the words "cookie", "fries", "cheesecake", "sundae" or such suddenly became offensive slangs for / about "fat" people considering that more than 1/3 of all Americans are overweight?

Or what about "pen" or "pencil" becoming offensive in a similiar way- taking on an offensive term describing the male's reproductive organ, or deragotory slang for nerds and dorks... and so on?

See what I'm getting at?
No.

I think what really bothers me is that homosexuals always seem to think they are the only ones that get picked on, threatened, beat, killed, discriminated against.

Everybody deals with it in one way or another. I find it a bit offensive to be called a "silly heterosexual" , considering the fact that I don't like being singled into a group for the sole purpose of being looked down upon, as if heterosexuals aren't smart enough to "get" whatever point you have to make. I will continue to use the term GAY to describe what I don't like, and the friends I happen to have who are homosexuals don't care when I do.

If someone has a problem with my use of the word, then they obviously can't rise above petty words, and I don't care to be their friend, in which case, I don't really give a fuck what they may think of my choice of words.

I have no problem with homosexuals. I think they should have every right that I have, and I've even been in a fight (not too serious, I just slapped someone) to defend someone who happened to be homosexual, even though I JUST met him. But you know what? The first thing I said when it was all over and we were leaving was "Man, that was fucking gay"

He agreed 100% It was gay.

No. It's because the word "gay" can be used to mean a variety of things, including both "homosexual" and "bad/aggravating/irritating". Seriously, the fuck is wrong with you? Words can mean more than one thing.

But this isn't a case where a word just innocently means more than one thing.

This meaning of "bad/aggravating/irritating" is only a few years old. I, for one - being from a non-English speaking country - don't think I came across it it on the internet until maybe a couple years ago, if even that.

And, even more importantly, this meaning came into use exactly and purely because it is homophobic. I mean, it's teenage males who start new "cool" lingo like that - you don't really think they thought "Hm, we need a cooler word for things we hate, let's get a dictionary and find something unobjectionable", do you? Of course not, because "gay", to them*, signifies exactly what they hate/fear/despise the worst - being perceived as weak, feminine, or *gasp* actually homosexual.


* and no, obviously not all "teenage males" are like that, but you know the type.

What if common everyday words suddenly became offensive? For example, suppose the words "cookie", "fries", "cheesecake", "sundae" or such suddenly became offensive slangs for / about "fat" people considering that more than 1/3 of all Americans are overweight?

Or what about "pen" or "pencil" becoming offensive in a similiar way- taking on an offensive term describing the male's reproductive organ, or deragotory slang for nerds and dorks... and so on?

See what I'm getting at?

No, I don't.

You're trying to suggest that gay people and fat people are the same. Then, you're trying to suggest that men and gay people are the same. *Then*, you're trying to suggest that nerds and gay people are the same.

In todays culture, it is okay, and in some places encouraged, to hate people because they're gay. It's not the same for fat people, it's not the same for men, and it's not the same for nerds. I think this is something that heterosexual people aren't easily grasping? Think of all of the minorities that have words and phrases which offend them. It doesn't matter if any of those words or phrases have alterior meanings, because said minorities are offended.

It doesn't matter that gay people aren't a racial minority. Fact is, we're still a minority, and a large one at that. If you decide that 'nigg**' means 'bad', are you going to go around using it in public? No, you're not, because you know it offends people. We expect the same courtesy.

While you're at it you could invent your own little language.

Like I stated before, you can decide that when you say "pepper" you really mean "avocado," but everyone is still going to think you mean pepper, and it's not their fault-that's the language we all use. So you can decide what is being implied but what is actually going to be implied is more up to the common use of the word and less to your intent.

You can actually prove that most of the uses of the word gay are to mean bad things about homosexuals, then? Because I don't think they are.

So I guess I'm not allowed to tell anyone I eat Mexican food, wear black clothes or own books about the Nazis then either. Thank you for making my life a little bit better.
Well, are you describing food from Mexico or food that is bad? Clothes that are the color black or clothes that suck? What do the books have to do with anything?

Just because you don't have any necessarily negative, direct implications with your use of the word doesn't mean that others don't. In fact, we all *know* that there are people that use the word 'gay' for that exact purpose, to negatively and directly describe people.

Until the word 'gay' is no longer used as an offensive, derogatory term, it will not be appropriate for the word to be used as a general, negative term.
Don't let me catch you using the term Jew! I've heard Neo-Nazi's use it as a derogative term, and they have been WAY more oppressed than homosexuals!

But this isn't a case where a word just innocently means more than one thing.

This meaning of "bad/aggravating/irritating" is only a few years old. I, for one - being from a non-English speaking country - don't think I came across it it on the internet until maybe a couple years ago, if even that.

And, even more importantly, this meaning came into use exactly and purely because it is homophobic. I mean, it's teenage males who start new "cool" lingo like that - you don't really think they thought "Hm, we need a cooler word for things we hate, let's get a dictionary and find something unobjectionable", do you? Of course not, because "gay", to them*, signifies exactly what they hate/fear/despise the worst - being perceived as weak, feminine, or *gasp* actually homosexual.


* and no, obviously not all "teenage males" are like that, but you know the type.
Nazis? Where!?

What I mean is.. The "teenage males" you describe, sound more like Hitler. Out of everyone I know who has ever used the word gay, myself included, none of them is as you described. Lots happen to be teenage males too.

You can actually prove that most of the uses of the word gay are to mean bad things about homosexuals, then? Because I don't think they are.
Because it currently has a meaning. That meaning is 'homosexual.' When you use it in another context you are still implying its current use.

I mean, it's teenage males who start new "cool" lingo like that - you don't really think they thought "Hm, we need a cooler word for things we hate, let's get a dictionary and find something unobjectionable", do you? Of course not, because "gay", to them*, signifies exactly what they hate/fear/despise the worst - being perceived as weak, feminine, or *gasp* actually homosexual.


* and no, obviously not all "teenage males" are like that, but you know the type.

LOL. Would be funny, but no, they clearly didn't do that. It still doesn't change what I mean when I say it and I don't think that it serves as legitimate grounds to stop me saying it if I choose to.

So I guess I'm not allowed to tell anyone I eat Mexican food, wear black clothes or own books about the Nazis then either. Thank you for making my life a little bit better.


Are you so completely daft that you're unable to see what far-stretches you're trying to assert prove something?

Using the word 'gay' negatively offends a LOT of people. Does telling people you eat mexican food offend people? No. Is anyone, literally anyone, offended when you tell them you eat mexican food? No. So, might I ask, what point were you trying to make when you decided to start spouting random things as if they suggested a point?

Don't let me catch you using the term Jew! I've heard Neo-Nazi's use it as a derogative term, and they have been WAY more oppressed than homosexuals!
These little things would work if the discussion was to also not to refer to gay people as gay. But it's not. Your analogy works, just not in the way you think. Because it wouldn't be appropriate to use "Jew" as a deragotory ("He jewed me.") So you see, this isn't a stretch at all.

Because it currently has a meaning. That meaning is 'homosexual.' When you use it in another context you are still implying its current use.

No. Just, really, no.

You ever hear a race started with the phrase "ready, set, go!"? Well, did that race have anything to do with Venn diagrams, concrete or tennis?

Are you so completely daft that you're unable to see what far-stretches you're trying to assert prove something?

Using the word 'gay' negatively offends a LOT of people. Does telling people you eat mexican food offend people? No. Is anyone, literally anyone, offended when you tell them you eat mexican food? No. So, might I ask, what point were you trying to make when you decided to start spouting random things as if they suggested a point?

Racists or mexicans might be offended. What if they don't want their food to be called Mexican? What if they think it should just be called "food"? Maybe they think their food is being segregated, shunned, singled out for persecution because I qualify it with the word "Mexican"? Should I stop with my completely harmless use of the word Mexican because they might think these things?

(For the record, I have never met a homosexual that disapproved of my use of the word gay to mean bad. Just as I have never met a mexican against my use of the words Mexican food)

The first thing I said when it was all over and we were leaving was "Man, that was fucking gay"

He agreed 100% It was gay.


The first thing I said when it was all over and we were leaving was "Man, that was fucking gay"

He agreed 100% It was gay.


And what you don't understand is, it's not *always* offensive. But it is, sometimes, and it can be a lot of times. If you aren't in a position to be able to understand when it is appropriate, and when it isn't appropriate, then you shouldn't be using it.

Which isn't to suggest that no heterosexual people are able to determine when use of the word is appropriate, and when it isn't. Some are. Some aren't. But you don't just get to decide "well, I don't hate gay people, so I'm going to use the word gay as much as I want to describe anything I want, because I don't hate gay people, so it's okay" because that's not what makes it okay.

It's not okay to use the word 'gay' just because you don't hate gay people.

For the record, I have never met a homosexual that disapproved of my use of the word gay to mean bad.
Some close homosexual friends of mine (quote) love how the word gay is being used. They think it's fantastic and very fun. I don't understand why they think this, as I would expect them to not like it. They just laugh and joke. However, I've got homosexual friends on the other side of things. They hate it, don't like it one bit. So it's hard. I guess it's mostly about the individual.

The first thing I said when it was all over and we were leaving was "Man, that was fucking gay"

He agreed 100% It was gay.


The first thing I said when it was all over and we were leaving was "Man, that was fucking gay"

He agreed 100% It was gay.


And what you don't understand is, it's not *always* offensive. But it is, sometimes, and it can be a lot of times. If you aren't in a position to be able to understand when it is appropriate, and when it isn't appropriate, then you shouldn't be using it.

Which isn't to suggest that no heterosexual people are able to determine when use of the word is appropriate, and when it isn't. Some are. Some aren't. But you don't just get to decide "well, I don't hate gay people, so I'm going to use the word gay as much as I want to describe anything I want, because I don't hate gay people, so it's okay" because that's not what makes it okay.

It's not okay to use the word 'gay' just because you don't hate gay people.

Would you call a child born out of wedlock a "bastard"? Would you call me a bastard if I pissed you off enough?


No, I wouldn't. Though I know what the word bastard means, it is not a word I keep in my vocabulary.

No, I wouldn't. Though I know what the word bastard means, it is not a word I keep in my vocabulary.

Why? It is the proper term, after all.

No. Just, really, no.

You ever hear a race started with the phrase "ready, set, go!"? Well, did that race have anything to do with Venn diagrams, concrete or tennis?
You get the prize-
http://www.feelingretro.com/toy_img/stretch.jpg

It's not okay to use the word 'gay' just because you don't hate gay people.

But it is ok for you to get on your high horse and lambast us for using it just because some people do hate homosexuals?

Don't let me catch you using the term Jew! I've heard Neo-Nazi's use it as a derogative term, and they have been WAY more oppressed than homosexuals!

You certainly won't. I have jewish friends, and I refer to them as jewish, not "the jew", much like I wouldn't want to be called "the gay".

You get the prize-
http://www.feelingretro.com/toy_img/stretch.jpg

Kick. Ass.

Thanks for proving that you can't actually disprove my point, though.

You certainly won't. I have jewish friends, and I refer to them as jewish, not "the jew", much like I wouldn't want to be called "the gay".

Or even "a gay"? Which would be the correct analogue to calling someone a jew.

Why? It is the proper term, after all.


If I were describing someone who was a child born out of wedlock in an atmosphere where it was clear I was not trying to be offensive, yes, I would use the word 'bastard'. As an insult? No, I would not use it.

But it is ok for you to get on your high horse and lambast us for using it just because some people do hate homosexuals?

Can I ask why it puts me on a high horse to ask people to not use a word that many people use to insult and offend me?

I think what really bothers me is that homosexuals always seem to think they are the only ones that get picked on, threatened, beat, killed, discriminated against.

That's bullshit.

Years ago, I often used a word that translates as "handicapped" when describing someone who was stupid, an idiot, or something that was idiotic and pointless (I guess it's much like using "retarded" in English). Never thought twice about it, never even noticed this may not be such an innocent little word after all, because, hey, I was using it innocently, hell, everybody was.

What got me to stop, is my best friend who happens to have a handicapped brother. She didn't say anything outright, but winced everytime I used it. So it made me think, and it made me stop. Today, I won't even use "retarded" in English to describe something stupid/idiotic.


Also, a friend of mine refused for the longest time to say "schwarz" ("black") instead of "Neger" ("negro") on the simple grounds that he didn't mean it in an offensive way, hence it wasn't offensive. Now, even though we're not in the US and "Neger" was acceptable here a few years longer than there, fact is, it went out at least in the early Eighties and is now just as negatively imbued as "negro" in the US.
You can't just go around saying it because you don't find it offensive when, for all intents and purposes, it is offensive.

If I were describing someone who was a child born out of wedlock in an atmosphere where it was clear I was not trying to be offensive, yes, I would use the word 'bastard'. As an insult? No, I would not use it.
I'm a bastard. If it used as an insult to me, I smile. I don't find it offensive. It's quite funny really.

Kick. Ass.

Thanks for proving that you can't actually disprove my point, though.


Your point was so invalid that I couldn't even tell what point you were trying to make.

I use the term "gay" to describe things that I don't like, things that piss me off, and other things of that nature. I frankly don't see how homosexuals can get pissed off at it's use considering they stole the term in the first place. Same with fag. The original meaning of a fag is a cigarette, but it was stolen by bigots to make fun of homosexuals.

The way I figure it, as long as I don't use the term to directly disparage homosexuals (which I don't) then they don't have a right to bitch about it. It isn't their word to keep.

Of course it's not their word to keep, but if you must use it as another word than homosexual use it as happy because that is what it truely was meant to be in the first place. Why should you be able to change it and not others. I just think that your whole statement is hypocritical.

If I were describing someone who was a child born out of wedlock in an atmosphere where it was clear I was not trying to be offensive, yes, I would use the word 'bastard'. As an insult? No, I would not use it.

So where is it going to be clear that I am using the word "gay" to describe a situation or item, without any derogatory meaning to homosexuals?

As an example, last night I was on the phone and using my laptop at the same time. My laptop stopped working (it refused to open any applications, citing "insufficient system resources). I swore at it, and the friend I was on the phone to asked me what was wrong. I replied that my laptop was being gay. Neither my friend nor I are homosexual, my laptop was not being weak, effeminate or camp, and both my friend and I understood that gay meant only that it was being annoying. Was that an innapropriate use?

I'm a bastard. If it used as an insult to me, I smile. I don't find it offensive. It's quite funny really.


Congrats to you. My skin isn't quite as thick as yours. It still hurts me to hear people insult me for a situation I was born into and had no control over.

Kick. Ass.

Thanks for proving that you can't actually disprove my point, though.
It's hard to argue against something that has little or no foundation. What you put up was practically a non-sequitor.

Sorry, you can think that the word 'gay' doesn't imply homosexuality in the listener all you want, you can insist that when you say pepper you mean avocado. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. The word has a meaning, a mainstream one and no matter what you 'intend' it's going to carry the implication of it's common usage. I can't be any clearer.

Congrats to you. My skin isn't quite as thick as yours. It still hurts me to hear people insult me for a situation I was born into and had no control over.
Why let that affect you? It's stupid. Personally, I'm not concerned at all with being a bastard. Infact, I'm quite happy my father decided not to stick around. Oh well.

Your point was so invalid that I couldn't even tell what point you were trying to make.

My point was that words with multiple meanings, when used, do not simultaneously imply all the meanings of that word. I used set to mean "prepared", but reminded you all that it also means "a group of items", "hardened or solidified" and "a series of games in tennis etc.". (loose definitions only). Yet it was clear that the racer was not a group of items, hardened like concrete or part of a tennis match.

No, I don't.

You're trying to suggest that gay people and fat people are the same. Then, you're trying to suggest that men and gay people are the same. *Then*, you're trying to suggest that nerds and gay people are the same.

In todays culture, it is okay, and in some places encouraged, to hate people because they're gay. It's not the same for fat people, it's not the same for men, and it's not the same for nerds. I think this is something that heterosexual people aren't easily grasping? Think of all of the minorities that have words and phrases which offend them. It doesn't matter if any of those words or phrases have alterior meanings, because said minorities are offended.

It doesn't matter that gay people aren't a racial minority. Fact is, we're still a minority, and a large one at that. If you decide that 'nigg**' means 'bad', are you going to go around using it in public? No, you're not, because you know it offends people. We expect the same courtesy.

I'm not saying fat people or nerds are the same as gay people. What I'm getting at is that...

The word "Gay" became offensive when people use it to disparage and degoratory aganist gay / homosexual people, correct?

Then what if the example words I stated such as cookies, fries (french fries), sundaes, cheesecakes, pizza, etc. suddenly become offensive when they are used to disparage fat people as fat people eat these foods all the time? The fact that 1/3 of all Americans are fat or overweight- a much bigger minority than gay people. I'm not saying these words are offensive now, but suppose next year or in 2010 or 2020 or whenever, these innocent food words somehow become offensive in the manner I described above?

Then what are we going to do? Re-invent our entire language because we will no longer be able to call a pizza "pizza" or cookies "cookies" because saying these words would offend 1 out of 3 Americans because they're overweight? There's already a trend starting- black people call white people "crackers" I believe, which is supposedly a derogatory term in the same way whites call black people "niggers".

Here's another perspective on what I'm trying to explain....

An average person chats with a friend. A fat person walks up to them, but the two average people don't like fat people. The two average Joe's say "Hey go away, cookie!" or "Go away, sundae!" The fat person would become offended.

Or if someone says "Cheesecake!" or "This stupid cheesecake piece of shit." when something bad happens to him (in the same way we say "Fuck!" or "This is gay!"), and fat people overhear him and then consquently gets offended by the "Cheesecake!" statement.

-----------------------

In other words, if our everyday innocent words that are used to describe foods or are the names of the foods themselves somehow become offensive through fads or cultural shifts or such, especially that 1/3 of Americans are fat, and loves to eat these foods. Then these foods become associated with fat-ness and obesity, then these words get twisted into offensive slangs.

Then it will be pretty much taboo to use these food words. Then what will we do with our language? Try to teach millions of kids never to say cookie, sundae, french fries, cheesecake, etc. ever again, but their parents still use them because they will still be from the era where these words weren't a bad thing or had insulting meanings?

Hope that clears up the point I'm trying to get across here.

Sorry, you can think that the word 'gay' doesn't imply homosexuality in the listener all you want, you can insist that when you say pepper you mean avocado. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. The word has a meaning, a mainstream one and no matter what you 'intend' it's going to carry the implication of it's common usage. I can't be any clearer.

I follow your point. I guess what I'm saying is really that it seems to be that the assumed default state of the use of the word gay to mean bad is derogatory towards homosexuals, when in fact that is often not the case. Wouldn't it be better not to assume that, and only to see that meaning when it's clear that that is what is meant?

It's hard to argue against something that has little or no foundation. What you put up was practically a non-sequitor.

Sorry, you can think that the word 'gay' doesn't imply homosexuality in the listener all you want, you can insist that when you say pepper you mean avocado. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. The word has a meaning, a mainstream one and no matter what you 'intend' it's going to carry the implication of it's common usage. I can't be any clearer.
I don't understand how you keep missing OUR point. When we use the term gay, we are NOT intending it to be linked to homosexuals in ANY way! If you seem to think we are, you are misinterpreting us, and therefore, it is YOUR problem!

I don't care what gay used to mean, I don't care what YOU think gay means, and I certainly don't care what racist assholes think gay means. To me, gay = bad. I'm NOT gonna quit using it, so either sue me, or get over it.

My point was that words with multiple meanings, when used, do not simultaneously imply all the meanings of that word. I used set to mean "prepared", but reminded you all that it also means "a group of items", "hardened or solidified" and "a series of games in tennis etc.". (loose definitions only). Yet it was clear that the racer was not a group of items, hardened like concrete or part of a tennis match.
And that's why you got the stretchy, because 'set' actually means set in all of those instances, actually refering back to the root of set to describe each instance as 'set' or 'being set,' so you see that your example actually proves our point.

So where is it going to be clear that I am using the word "gay" to describe a situation or item, without any derogatory meaning to homosexuals?

As an example, last night I was on the phone and using my laptop at the same time. My laptop stopped working (it refused to open any applications, citing "insufficient system resources). I swore at it, and the friend I was on the phone to asked me what was wrong. I replied that my laptop was being gay. Neither my friend nor I are homosexual, my laptop was not being weak, effeminate or camp, and both my friend and I understood that gay meant only that it was being annoying. Was that an innapropriate use?


There is never going to be any one criteria you can use to make a decision on when it is or isn't appropriate. Did you offend anyone with your specific usage of it? No. But does using the word freely in the privacy of your own home make you more prone to using it in public, where you might offend someone? Yes. Is your friend a homophobe? I don't know, but if they are, then your usage of the word encourages them to use it in the manner they're familiar with, because they don't draw a distinction between your use and theirs. If your friend isn't homphobic, does your usage of the word hurt anyone? No. But will it make your friend more likely to use the word in public, where it may offend someone? Yes, it does.

There is no one reason why you shouldn't use the word, no one type of situation you need to look out for, but there are so many ways in which using the word with a negative, offensive tone can lead to people being offended, or people being encouraged by it, or increasing the amount of tolerance the general public has for slurs.

Your use of the word 'gay' may not directly lead to any negative results, but it certainly isn't going to lead to any positive ones, either. When there are other, less-offensive alternatives to the word 'gay', I just can't fathom why it's so hard for some people to give up using it.

Why let that affect you? It's stupid. Personally, I'm not concerned at all with being a bastard. Infact, I'm quite happy my father decided not to stick around. Oh well.

How many people want to kill you for being a bastard?

... How many people want to kill me for being gay?

I don't understand how you keep missing OUR point. When we use the term gay, we are NOT intending it to be linked to homosexuals in ANY way! If you seem to think we are, you are misinterpreting us, and therefore, it is YOUR problem!

I don't care what gay used to mean, I don't care what YOU think gay means, and I certainly don't care what racist assholes think gay means. To me, gay = bad. I'm NOT gonna quit using it, so either sue me, or get over it.
What YOU need to get over is it has a meaning and that's what people are going to glean from it, regardless of whether you meant avocado or whatever. And it's not 'thier' fault, because they're using the same language as everyone else.

So you can use it, just don't act all confused when people think you mean what the word means.

How many people want to kill you for being a bastard?

... How many people want to kill me for being gay?
Sorry, I thought you were talking about being a bastard? My mistake.

And that's why you got the stretchy, because 'set' actually means set in all of those instances, actually refering back to the root of set to describe each instance as 'set' or 'being set,' so you see that your example actually proves our point.

It doesn't do anything like prove your point. Are you just trying to get Mr. Armstrong back?

They're four different meanings of the same word, only one of which really applies. And it was clear under context which one I meant.

I'm not saying fat people or nerds are the same as gay people. What I'm getting at is that...

The word "Gay" became offensive when people use it to disparage and degoratory aganist gay / homosexual people, correct?

Then what if the example words I stated such as cookies, fries (french fries), sundaes, cheesecakes, pizza, etc. suddenly become offensive when they are used to disparage fat people as fat people eat these foods all the time? The fact that 1/3 of all Americans are fat or overweight- a much bigger minority than gay people. I'm not saying these words are offensive now, but suppose next year or in 2010 or 2020 or whenever, these innocent food words somehow become offensive in the manner I described above?

Then what are we going to do? Re-invent our entire language because we will no longer be able to call a pizza "pizza" or cookies "cookies" because saying these words would offend 1 out of 3 Americans because they're overweight? There's already a trend starting- black people call white people "crackers" I believe, which is supposedly a derogatory term in the same way whites call black people "niggers".

Here's another perspective on what I'm trying to explain....

An average person chats with a friend. A fat person walks up to them, but the two average people don't like fat people. The two average Joe's say "Hey go away, cookie!" or "Go away, sundae!" The fat person would become offended.

Or if someone says "Cheesecake!" or "This stupid cheesecake piece of shit." when something bad happens to him (in the same way we say "Fuck!" or "This is gay!"), and fat people overhear him and then consquently gets offended by the "Cheesecake!" statement.

-----------------------

In other words, if our everyday innocent words that are used to describe foods or are the names of the foods themselves somehow become offensive through fads or cultural shifts or such, especially that 1/3 of Americans are fat, and loves to eat these foods. Then these foods become associated with fat-ness and obesity, then these words get twisted into offensive slangs.

Then it will be pretty much taboo to use these food words. Then what will we do with our language? Try to teach millions of kids never to say cookie, sundae, french fries, cheesecake, etc. ever again, but their parents still use them because they will still be from the era where these words weren't a bad thing or had insulting meanings?

Hope that clears up the point I'm trying to get across here.


I still can't recognize your argument, because weight is a controllable issue, (though, yes, I acknowledge that not everyone has the same control over their weight), and there is no control over your sexuality.

I follow your point. I guess what I'm saying is really that it seems to be that the assumed default state of the use of the word gay to mean bad is derogatory towards homosexuals, when in fact that is often not the case. Wouldn't it be better not to assume that, and only to see that meaning when it's clear that that is what is meant?
Once again, you have to ask yourself why is 'gay' 'bad.' Once you come to an honest answer about that you'll see why gay people have can have a problem with it.

Your use of the word 'gay' may not directly lead to any negative results, but it certainly isn't going to lead to any positive ones, either. When there are other, less-offensive alternatives to the word 'gay', I just can't fathom why it's so hard for some people to give up using it.

It's a simple, multi-purpose word. And it increases my productivity. I could have said annoying, or useless, or unco-operative, or inefficient, but those would have taken longer. So I said gay, and increased my productivity. If I do that often enough, I might save enough time to do something useful. Like by a new laptop, or argue this pointless point about a word I rarely even use any more.

I don't understand how you keep missing OUR point. When we use the term gay, we are NOT intending it to be linked to homosexuals in ANY way! If you seem to think we are, you are misinterpreting us, and therefore, it is YOUR problem!

I don't care what gay used to mean, I don't care what YOU think gay means, and I certainly don't care what racist assholes think gay means. To me, gay = bad. I'm NOT gonna quit using it, so either sue me, or get over it.


I get it. What you don't understand is, when we let YOU get away with it, it encourages the people that really DO hate us. By you using the word 'gay' so casually, you make society less aware of the hate going on, you encourage the haters in proclaiming their hate, and you make the situation worse for us.

Yes, I know that those are extreme results of using the word 'gay' negatively and freely, but those are the eventual effects.

Once again, you have to ask yourself why is 'gay' 'bad.' Once you come to an honest answer about that you'll see why gay people have can have a problem with it.

Ugh. I know the etymology of the word. And I still don't care. If you want to get your panties in a twist because I call something gay when it pisses me off, be my guest. It's not my problem, and it's not my blood pressure.

It's a simple, multi-purpose word. And it increases my productivity. I could have said annoying, or useless, or unco-operative, or inefficient, but those would have taken longer. So I said gay, and increased my productivity. If I do that often enough, I might save enough time to do something useful. Like by a new laptop, or argue this pointless point about a word I rarely even use any more.

multi-purpose word? Tell me, how many purposes does the word 'gay' have in our time?

If you're going to use a pathetic argument, I'll use one right back. Concerned with productivity? Why not call good things 'A' and bad things 'B'? It'll save you even more time.

Nazis? Where!?

What I mean is.. The "teenage males" you describe, sound more like Hitler. Out of everyone I know who has ever used the word gay, myself included, none of them is as you described. Lots happen to be teenage males too.

Well, I wasn't really expecting anyone on here to be like that. :p
Seriously, though, it doesn't take too much guesswork to find where word usages like that originate. Most new slang terms come out of "youth culture", i.e. teenage kids and their culture*. And with "gay", chances are it's not the girls who came up with it, I'm thinking more like the chavs. Here, one of their big words is (or at least was until recently, who knows) "victim", as in "Hey, you victim!" or "Yeah, bitch is a real victim", which sounds hilariously stupid, came completely out of nowhere, and is meant to express that someone is stupid, weak, pathetic... take your pick.

Also, I was talking about how words like that start out, not how everybody who ends up using them is a homophobic asshole. Which doesn't mean it's okay to use them; which, I guess, is the whole point of this thread.

*including e.g. hip hop music, not exactly famous for their friendly outlook towards homosexuality.

It doesn't do anything like prove your point. Are you just trying to get Mr. Armstrong back?

They're four different meanings of the same word, only one of which really applies. And it was clear under context which one I meant.
They are actually two, and they both relate back to the root. A set as a grouping is why it is used in tennis, being prepared or hardened is in the same grouping. All still meaning a complete, solid unit or variation there of.


And when you call something gay, it's clear why 'gay' is a bad thing, and thats where people get offended.

I get it. What you don't understand is, when we let YOU get away with it, it encourages the people that really DO hate us. By you using the word 'gay' so casually, you make society less aware of the hate going on, you encourage the haters in proclaiming their hate, and you make the situation worse for us.

Yes, I know that those are extreme results of using the word 'gay' negatively and freely, but those are the eventual effects.
Here's the deal. You quit bitching about me using the term gay in the manner that I do, and I will proudly stand beside you as a friend and kick the living shit out of anyone who uses specifically to hurt you, offend you, or cause others to hate or harm you. k?

You can't change being homosexual, and I can't change being a stubborn asshole. But if you're smart, you'll use friends like me to your advantage, send me after the bigots with a baseball bat, and then when all the bigots are gone, I can use gay the way it was really intended. To describe shitty work and broken computers!

I still can't recognize your argument, because weight is a controllable issue, (though, yes, I acknowledge that not everyone has the same control over their weight), and there is no control over your sexuality.

That's true to a point.

Some people are born with "fat" genes, meaning low metabolism and you stay fat no matter how much you excerise. Thus, people with this gene have no control over their obesity in the same way gay people can't control their homosexuality.

On the other hand, it is very difficult for the American people to constantly stay slim. There's so much junk food, fried food, soda, beer, and other fattening foods everywhere at any time in America. Restaurants, supermarkets, circuses, amusement parks, parties, clubs, movie theaters, and especially fast food (Dunkin Donuts, McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, D'Angelo's, Arby's, etc.).

Besides, my arguement isn't limited to fat / obesity. It could happen in the future for people with blond hair (the classic insult "Blond women are dumb airheads" becomes more offensive with the term "blondie" or "yellow-head" or whatever)... deaf people (Suppose the word "ear" or any auditory term becomes offensive to deaf people later in the future?)... blind people (Eyes, glasses, or anything to do with the eyes becomes offensive to blind people)... midgets ("dwarf" can become offensive, meaning no more "dwarves" in fairy tales and magic settings and axe-wielding dwarves in video games), super-tall people (ditto as dwarves but can't use "ogre", "giant", "behemoth", etc. in fairy tales, settings, or video games), and so on.

Ugh. I know the etymology of the word. And I still don't care. If you want to get your panties in a twist because I call something gay when it pisses me off, be my guest. It's not my problem, and it's not my blood pressure.
Just really asking for some honesty. You can say it all you want, I don't really have an investment in it, myself not being gay. But when it implies what it means in current use then it is your problem, not someone 'grabing things out of air,' you know full well what you're implying. Own it. Pretending it's our problem that we didn't know you meant avocado when you said pepper is just silly. We're not your twin, we don't know your secret twin language, we have to use the one everyone else is using.

They are actually two, and they both relate back to the root. A set as a grouping is why it is used in tennis, being prepared or hardened is in the same grouping. All still meaning a complete, solid unit or variation there of.


And when you call something gay, it's clear why 'gay' is a bad thing, and thats where people get offended.
What about when you set an object down on the table? Or when the sun sets? Or setting a broken bone? Or being set in your ways?

multi-purpose word? Tell me, how many purposes does the word 'gay' have in our time?

If you're going to use a pathetic argument, I'll use one right back. Concerned with productivity? Why not call good things 'A' and bad things 'B'? It'll save you even more time.

It has at least three (homosexual, bad/annoying/irritating etc. and happy). It is used to mean all three, with varying degrees of regularity.

And I might just use that. Your argument is B. For bullshit. But so was mine, and we both know it.

We're not your twin, we don't know your secret twin language, we have to use the one everyone else is using.

Right. Except it's hardly like I'm the only one that does it. I don't even do it that often, and when I do it's almost always with and to people that know exactly what I mean.

Just really asking for some honesty. You can say it all you want, I don't really have an investment in it, myself not being gay. But when it implies what it means in current use then it is your problem, not someone 'grabing things out of air,' you know full well what you're implying. Own it. Pretending it's our problem that we didn't know you meant avocado when you said pepper is just silly. We're not your twin, we don't know your secret twin language, we have to use the one everyone else is using.
How about cleaning the wax out of your ears and hearing us when we say WE DON"T MEAN HOMOSEXUAL!

What about when you set an object down on the table? Or when the sun sets? Or setting a broken bone? Or being set in your ways?

Those last two will presumably be said to fall under the same grouping as the others.

. Now, what I'd REALLY like to know is how people managed to make happy = homosexual.
I would think if you were attracted to a person of the same sex and you actually got to act on it you would be a lot happier then if you didn't get to act on it....... that's my theory though. (it's probably wrong)

What about when you set an object down on the table? Or when the sun sets? Or setting a broken bone? Or being set in your ways?
All relate back. They aren't 'new unrelated meanings,' they relate back. This red herring isn't even well concieved. You can trace to the root why set means all of those things.

You can also trace back why 'gay' means 'bad.' And that's where the issue comes from.

That's true to a point.

Some people are born with "fat" genes, meaning low metabolism and you stay fat no matter how much you excerise. Thus, people with this gene have no control over their obesity in the same way gay people can't control their homosexuality.

On the other hand, it is very difficult for the American people to constantly stay slim. There's so much junk food, fried food, soda, beer, and other fattening foods everywhere at any time in America. Restaurants, supermarkets, circuses, amusement parks, parties, clubs, movie theaters, and especially fast food (Dunkin Donuts, McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, D'Angelo's, Arby's, etc.).

Besides, my arguement isn't limited to fat / obesity. It could happen in the future for people with blond hair (the classic insult "Blond women are dumb airheads" becomes more offensive with the term "blondie" or "yellow-head" or whatever)... deaf people (Suppose the word "ear" or any auditory term becomes offensive to deaf people later in the future?)... blind people (Eyes, glasses, or anything to do with the eyes becomes offensive to blind people)... midgets ("dwarf" can become offensive, meaning no more "dwarves" in fairy tales and magic settings and axe-wielding dwarves in video games), super-tall people (ditto as dwarves but can't use "ogre", "giant", "behemoth", etc. in fairy tales, settings, or video games), and so on.

But your argument wth obese people had its strength in that everyday words would become the offensive words, which would be valid, if weight weren't a semi-controllable issue. With deaf and blind people, I would still say your argument doesn't work, because I *would* suggest that any word which widely offended deaf and blind people not be used freely. Same with tall and short, though I can think we can agree that would be a far-fetched situation.

How many everyday words would be offensive to blind/deaf people?

I HATE the use of "gay" to mean stupid or uncool. I usually put an immediate stop to it with either an evil glare or a diatribe in which I usually tell people that I don't appreciate the fact that a word that refers to an important aspect of who I am as a person is used as a synonym for negative traits such as stupidity.

How about cleaning the wax out of your ears and hearing us when we say WE DON"T MEAN HOMOSEXUAL!
"Why won't anyone get me an avocado when I ask for pepper?"

It's clear why the word means 'bad,' what you intend doesn't matter as much as what's in the language. If you don't mean homosexual, you're going to have an easier time about it by not using a word that means 'homosexual.' If you're going to insist on it's usage, get used to being misunderstood.

There's a fundamental logical flaw in your question/argument/set-up. Here's where you go wrong:

The word "Gay" became offensive when people use it to disparage and degoratory aganist gay / homosexual people, correct?

Then what if the example words I stated such as cookies, fries (french fries), sundaes, cheesecakes, pizza, etc. suddenly become offensive when they are used to disparage fat people as fat people eat these foods all the time?

1) No. The word gay became offensive when people used it to characterize random things and people that they didn't agree with, hated, found despiccable.

2) Hence, the correct equivalent would be if people started to use "fat" (or "blonde", or "one legged", or whatever) as a synonym for "bad", "sucky", "disgusting", "idiot", "pathetic" etc. Just like they do with "gay".

But your argument wth obese people had its strength in that everyday words would become the offensive words, which would be valid, if weight weren't a semi-controllable issue. With deaf and blind people, I would still say your argument doesn't work, because I *would* suggest that any word which widely offended deaf and blind people not be used freely. Same with tall and short, though I can think we can agree that would be a far-fetched situation.

How many everyday words would be offensive to blind/deaf people?

Suppose the term(s) or words "hearing", "ear", "listen", "voice", "vocalize", "singing", "music", etc. somehow becomes offensive or insulting to deaf people?

Or what if the words "see", "eyes", "glasses", "retina", "reading", "watch", etc. becomes offensive to blind people?

I'm just asking "what if?" with these things- suppose these words do become offensive to these handicapped people 5 years, 10 years, 50 years from now? Then what happens?

I believe the word "gay" was used commonly as "happy" or non-homosexual meaning in the 19th century and earlier. So if a word for "happy" becomes offensive (the whole gay thing) then its possible that other everyday words we use might become offensive down the line.

Suppose the term(s) or words "hearing", "ear", "listen", "voice", "vocalize", "singing", "music", etc. somehow becomes offensive or insulting to deaf people?

Or what if the words "see", "eyes", "glasses", "retina", "reading", "watch", etc. becomes offensive to blind people?

I'm just asking "what if?" with these things- suppose these words do become offensive to these handicapped people 5 years, 10 years, 50 years from now? Then what happens?

I believe the word "gay" was used commonly as "happy" or non-homosexual meaning in the 19th century and earlier. So if a word for "happy" becomes offensive (the whole gay thing) then its possible that other everyday words we use might become offensive down the line.
All of these don't follow. Should the scenario you suggest happen it still would not relate. We are talking about a word that means homosexual, it is not something that simply relates to homosexuality. (something can use gay as an adjective, to relate it to homosexuality, but that's not the same thing as the word gay itself being something that related to homosexuality). So the scenario does not speak to the situation.

All of these don't follow. Should the scenario you suggest happen it still would not relate. We are talking about a word that means homosexual, it is not something that simply relates to homosexuality. (something can use gay as an adjective, to relate it to homosexuality, but that's not the same thing as the word gay itself being something that related to homosexuality). So the scenario does not speak to the situation.

Suppose in the year 20xx (2010, 2020, 2028, 2035, etc.)....

I walk up to a blind person and say "hey, eye" or talk to a friend within earshot of the blind person and say "retinas are lamers"

I walk up to a tiny person and say "hey, midget" or talk to a friend within earshot of the blind person and say "dwarves are lamers"

I walk up to a gay person and say "hey, fag" or talk to a friend within earshot of the gay person and say "Gays are lamers"

----------------------

Video games, movies, sitcoms, etc:

Censor all mention of "dwarves" because "dwarves" become offensive in the year 20xx.

Censor all mention of "retinas" or "eyes" because they become offensive words by 20xx.

Censor all mention of "fag" or "Gays" (most likely already done today)

The next time you try and console your irate girlfriend after calling her a bitch, you can try and reconcile with, "Well it's just a female dog, baby." This won't make any more difference than telling a gay person you didn't mean 'gay' "in that way". If people take offense to it, then it is offensive. If you don't want to offend, then don't use it. I would say it ultimately comes down to a moral decision of the word choice you use--out of respect/indifference/hatred/etc towards others. This discussion of how and why people use 'gay' in various senses isn't so important as the fact that people do take offense to it. So if nothing else, you have been made aware.

Now, what I'd REALLY like to know is how people managed to make happy = homosexual.

I've no problems with that, really. Being gay makes me happy. I wouldn't change it for the world. So the meaning is quite nice to me.

The thing is, as is the case with many words that tend to mean homosexual - they started out as something insulting. "Gay" didn't only mean happy. It also meant "licentious."

Licentious means:

1 : lacking legal or moral restraints; especially : disregarding sexual restraints
2 : marked by disregard for strict rules of correctness

So, calling someone gay meant they were immoral, incorrect, lascivious, lewd. Gay people, like we've been known to do, chose to emphasise the "happy" part of the synonym and claimed the word to rid it of its power to insult and that's pretty much what's happened. I never take someone calling me "gay" as an insult - especially seeing as English is not my first language.

About the whole business of some morons calling things they don't like "gay." They're not original in any way, as I just wrote, and it won't last very long. It's the death throws of an endangered attitude. Like the racists and misogynists before them, people who act like that will die off soon enough and their numbers will dwindle, making them completely ignorable.

So, I have patience.

I meant to ask you Fass:

Knowing that you criticize my view of gay sex as I've experienced it, based on the fact that I've only done anal sex with men, I went back and watched Brokeback Mountain again (third time!).

The only representation of gay sex they have in the movie is obviously anal. So, in your esteemed opinion on how gay men MUST have sex, does this reduce the legitimacy of the movie itself?

Inquiring minds want to know - is there some central authority on how all gay men do it? Or are we all free to do whatever we want with whoever we want, in whatever way we want?

BTW, gay is as good or bad a word as any. It's just a word.

this thread is gay

HAHAHAHAHA

Suppose in the year 20xx (2010, 2020, 2028, 2035, etc.)....

I walk up to a blind person and say "hey, eye" or talk to a friend within earshot of the blind person and say "retinas are lamers"

I walk up to a tiny person and say "hey, midget" or talk to a friend within earshot of the blind person and say "dwarves are lamers"

I walk up to a gay person and say "hey, fag" or talk to a friend within earshot of the gay person and say "Gays are lamers"

----------------------

Video games, movies, sitcoms, etc:

Censor all mention of "dwarves" because "dwarves" become offensive in the year 20xx.

Censor all mention of "retinas" or "eyes" because they become offensive words by 20xx.

Censor all mention of "fag" or "Gays" (most likely already done today)
You're still harping on examples that do not follow and situations that do not relate for a conclusion that is not suggested. One wonders why and what point it is you hope to make.

I'll start with your conclusion. Fag is an offensive term for homosexuals and you generally speaking can't already use it in that context. We still have instances where British people continue to refer to cigarettes as that and sometimes even jokes are made about the cultural differences in the use of that word (I'm remembering an episode of Clerks on that one). It can be used, it's not 'banned,' but it's understood that unless it's a British guy talking about a cigarette, it's gererally offensive.

But 'fag' is not the word we're talking about. Gay is. And we're not even suggesting that 'gay' as a negative be banned, just understand that since gay means homosexual, calling something lame by calling it gay you are by default calling gay people lame, whether you meant homosexuals or avocado or whatever.

The rest of your example does not address the situation. It does not understand the substance of the argument. You need to re-examine it rather than continue to recreate the same scenario, since again, your scenario does not address the issue and your point is vague at best. No one refers to blind people as "Eye."

And I believe that little people already don't like being called midgets. And yet we can still call it midget (http://www.force1powersteering.com/index_files/image014.jpg)racing. And again, never has anyone been known to say, "That is so midget." So it is not the same scenario, it doesn't speak to this discussion.

This is about using a word that describes a group of people as a derogative, and why people who fit that description might be offended by that. When you lay it out like that, it should be fucking obvious.

You can use the word, but swear up and down all you want, that's what it means. That's what it evokes. Don't pretend innocence when people make that connection just becaues you have 'special' definitions of words. If I have to get your special meaning of what every word you use, then we get into a discussion of what your definition of the word "Is" is, and I know some of you wouldn't want to be in that company, now would you...

Knowing that you criticize my view of gay sex as I've experienced it, based on the fact that I've only done anal sex with men, I went back and watched Brokeback Mountain again (third time!).

I just think it's a very limited view you have of gay sex. It's so much more than the anal kind. If you can get hold of the instructional film "Better Gay Sex," do! It's very nice at dealing with the varied aspects of man to man loving.

The only representation of gay sex they have in the movie is obviously anal. So, in your esteemed opinion on how gay men MUST have sex, does this reduce the legitimacy of the movie itself?

I have no opinion of how others choose to have sex. They can do only anal until the cows come home for all I care. The thing with my comments to you was to get you to get away from the anal aspect of it - you claim to have health issues with your anus and that that is the reason you can't have gay sex any more. I want you to experience gay sex again, if that's what you want to do, and as part of that, you have to realise that to have gay sex, you don't have to do anal.

As far as Brokeback Mountain goes: I have no opinion, as I have yet to see the film. If what you say is correct, it is a bit sad that a few people might get the idea that that's the only thing those gay cowboys are to have done in the sack, but I gather the scene is quite solitary and extremely short.

Pity in itself, but seeing as penetration is the most potent symbol for sex in our Western culture, and we as a society are so focused on it - be it gay or straight sex - I can understand why the director would have chosen an anal scene to get the message across in a for him most efficient way. In our culture where there are things as "down low" or ideas that you are "less gay" if you don't do anal, or if you only fuck and never get fucked and so on, it may have been the easiest way to show: "Look, these are indeed gay cowboys. Let there be no doubt as to that - they fucked each other up the bum." I of course don't agree with those views, but it is a fact that they are present in society. Shame, but I can't blame Ang Lee for that, especially as he wasn't the one that wrote the short story the film is based on.

I don't understand how you keep missing OUR point. When we use the term gay, we are NOT intending it to be linked to homosexuals in ANY way! If you seem to think we are, you are misinterpreting us, and therefore, it is YOUR problem!

I don't care what gay used to mean, I don't care what YOU think gay means, and I certainly don't care what racist assholes think gay means. To me, gay = bad. I'm NOT gonna quit using it, so either sue me, or get over it.

The problem is that intent isn't what matters, it's impact, and in certain circumstances you could get sued for using the term 'gay' excessively with negative connotations. Like say you had a homosexual co-worker. They could consider it a form of harassment, and you know what? When it comes to harassment it really is about impact over intent.

A person who isn't at racist could still make racist jokes and not mean anything bad by it, but if someone ends up offended or feels hurt or uncomfortable because of it, they can still file harassment and it's generally how they feel that's important, not what the person meant by it.

I'm personally not that bothered by that usage of the term, though I think it's uneccesary and rather rude given the way that it can be taken, and I don't think some people should get as offended as they do over some things. However, if I worked with a person who used 'woman' in a negative context (ex. Some guy messes up and the person says "You're such a woman", or the person's computer is being annoying so the person says "My computer is being such a woman") I'd probably feel somewhat uncomfortable.

They hijacked the word...now fag is another story.

I get it. What you don't understand is, when we let YOU get away with it, it encourages the people that really DO hate us. By you using the word 'gay' so casually, you make society less aware of the hate going on, you encourage the haters in proclaiming their hate, and you make the situation worse for us.

Yes, I know that those are extreme results of using the word 'gay' negatively and freely, but those are the eventual effects.

Counter-argument for you: the free and aboundant use of the word "gay" in its various contexts is going to gradually improve society's dealing with the homosexual issue, because this way, it gets talked about and just becomes less, umm, awkward and all. Encouraging debate and normalizing things, if you want.

But quite apart from that, I don't follow your argument. I don't think that "letting people get away" with using "gay" with a negative denotation "encourages haters in proclaiming their hate". I can, of course, not know about your experiences with it, but mine have been that there is a distinction between the use of it by people who mean no harm, and those who do, that is so easily detectable that not even those "haters" can or will confuse it. I have no trouble imagining one of the former to go "Dude, that's totally gay" at someone who drops a homophobic remark.

I, by the way, admit to some sort of double standards on this. In my native tongue German, I have no problem with folks using "schwul" as synonymous with something bad or annoying. I guess it comes from my being in an environment where the mere thought of those being homophobic remarks is rather laughable. Maybe it is a sort of second reclaiming, this time by the non-homosexual folks to use it without any "bad" thoughts and therewith riddening it of the negative connotation a second time.

In English, though, it does always have a negative ring to it, but then again, most of my English-speaking environment and the use of it I encounter there promotes that image. So yeah.. I guess it depends on who uses it. I know gay people who use it that way, and while thinking it's slightly silly, I really couldn't care less.

:headbang: Argh! I get so aggravated at my nephew over this. He is 13, and would never dream of gay-bashing, but he still uses the term this way. Makes me nuts!
To him gay=lame

:headbang: Argh! I get so aggravated at my nephew over this. He is 13, and would never dream of gay-bashing, but he still uses the term this way. Makes me nuts!
To him gay=lame
Yeah

Thankfully it is usually just teenager thing (and some degenerate older people)

Kind of like saying "thats Jewish" used to be common in my high school. I felt awful 2 years into high school when I found out the person that was sitting in front of me in homeroom was Jewish

I use it all the time, along with faggot (as a proper insult), and, no, I'm not a homophobe. Here is what I posted on 40kforums regarding the subject.

That said, I often use the terms "gay" and "fag" as insults or descriptions (although I don't use them on the multiple forums I frequent for fear of insulting someone by it) and from me (and Eminem, apparently) they aren't insults towards homo/bi/sexuals. It's just another way of showing displeasure - if you want to be offended by it, fine. If someone says "shit" and you somehow correlate that to being a racist anti-white term, that's your problem, not theirs. (Unless they actually mean it like that)

I use it all the time, along with faggot (as a proper insult), and, no, I'm not a homophobe. Here is what I posted on 40kforums regarding the subject.

That said, I often use the terms "gay" and "fag" as insults or descriptions (although I don't use them on the multiple forums I frequent for fear of insulting someone by it) and from me (and Eminem, apparently) they aren't insults towards homo/bi/sexuals. It's just another way of showing displeasure - if you want to be offended by it, fine. If someone says "shit" and you somehow correlate that to being a racist anti-white term, that's your problem, not theirs. (Unless they actually mean it like that)

"I use coloured all the time, along with ****** (as a proper insult), and, no, I'm not racist." :rolleyes:

Your comparison is flawed and is unrelated completely.

don't like when any word is 'Converted' to mean something Negative.

Fag was once a cigerette, (and I believe it was, before that, to describe fuel for campfires.)
Gay meant happy and festive.
Actually, fag is short for faggot which originally meant bundles of wood tied together to use as fuel for fires.
Back in the middle ages when they were burning witches, they would also tie homosexuals up and throw them in as well. ie. use them as 'faggots'.
Thus the word faggot came to mean homosexual.
So it originally was an extremely offensive term.

Don't know about the rest of you but I think this whole thread is really gay.

My mother considers herself very non-racist, and non-prejudiced against any group. But a few months ago she was haggling at a garage sale and made a reference to "jewing down" the price. When I called her on it she was surprised. She never meant it to be offensive, it was just a term she grew up with. Along with "******-rigging" something. Or "Niggertoes" as a name for brazilnuts. My aunt didn't know that wasn't the real name until she grew up and moved to California.
Just because you don't mean it offensively, doesn't mean it's not offending someone.

Just because you don't mean it offensively, doesn't mean it's not offending someone.
Just because it's offending someone, it's not offensive.

Your comparison is flawed and is unrelated completely.

Really? A homophobic slur is somehow less bad than a racial one? Why, because you're the one saying it? Please. The comparison is perfect.

It is not perfect. The word "gay" has become integrated into society, whether it's homophobic or not. The word "******" is very much taboo and is used specifically (unless it's gangsta, and that is a completely different tone of voice) as an insult, and a discriminatory one at that.

Just because it's offending someone, it's not offensive.

A term that offends an individual is offensive, since the offended party finds it so. Oxymoron alert...

Just because it's offending someone, it's not offensive.

Er?:headbang:
That would seem to be exactly the description of offensive.

This is my final word on the matter:
http://www.superdickery.com/images/seduction/tuska_panel.jpg
http://www.superdickery.com/images/seduction/tuska_panel.jpg

I use it all the time, along with faggot (as a proper insult), and, no, I'm not a homophobe. Here is what I posted on 40kforums regarding the subject.My take on the issue is, you use the word, I have a problem with it. I don't care what the intent is and whether anyone is gay or not. As far as I'm concerned, it's a major insult. Period.

Look, I know you're not homophobic since you're one of the people I've talked to the most from this game. Having said that, if I hear those words, I'll get rightly angered.

My mother considers herself very non-racist, and non-prejudiced against any group. But a few months ago she was haggling at a garage sale and made a reference to "jewing down" the price. When I called her on it she was surprised. She never meant it to be offensive, it was just a term she grew up with. Along with "******-rigging" something. Or "Niggertoes" as a name for brazilnuts. My aunt didn't know that wasn't the real name until she grew up and moved to California.
Just because you don't mean it offensively, doesn't mean it's not offending someone.Reminds me a bit of my homosexual best friend, who often refers to himself as a "poof" or a "queer" and suchlike. I can never believe he uses these terms. He doesn't use them seriously, of course, but I'm always concerned he'll offend someone else by his use of them.

*lights a fag gayly*

*takes a drag*

Aaaaaanyway... I use it to describe something homosexual. Like 80s music. That's gay

English is a living language. That means that word meanings change all the time. Remember a time before 'Bad' meant good or cool? I guess if we are going to rip on the people who use gay to mean bad, we have to equally rip on the people who use 'lame' to mean bad, as we are making fun of lame people?

I think we are making politically correct a sport, and somehow the most politically-correct of us get a cookie or trophy or something. Who really cares if we all don't get along, in the first place?

I don't understand how you keep missing OUR point. When we use the term gay, we are NOT intending it to be linked to homosexuals in ANY way! If you seem to think we are, you are misinterpreting us, and therefore, it is YOUR problem! I don't care what YOU mean by it. The fact is that the word means homosexual in many societies. It is not OUR problem that you're trying to co-opt the word for this meaning, it is YOUR problem for continuing to use it in spite of the fact it pisses off some gay people.

I don't care what gay used to mean, I don't care what YOU think gay means, and I certainly don't care what racist assholes think gay means. To me, gay = bad. I'm NOT gonna quit using it, so either sue me, or get over it. And who died and put you in charge of the dictionary? :rolleyes:

If you were black and I used "black" to mean "bad" the way you use "gay" to mean bad, you'd call me racist without knowing anything about me. I refuse to "get over it" if you continue to use "gay" to mean "bad." If you don't mean anything negative by it, use "bad" to mean "bad."

*lights a fag gayly*

*takes a drag*


Doesn't that make you feel a little queer?

My gay friend uses the term "fag" but I'm very careful about the company I'd use the term in. He's licensed to, I'm not.

My gay friend uses the term "fag" but I'm very careful about the company I'd use the term in. He's licensed to, I'm not.Where did he get his "license" to use the word? I didn't know you could get a "license" to use a patently offensive word. :rolleyes:

My gay friend uses the term "fag" but I'm very careful about the company I'd use the term in. He's licensed to, I'm not.
Sounds like a black dude I know who calls everyone ******.

Or another big friend who calls everyone fat.

Genious :D

Doesn't that make you feel a little queer?
I feel like the Queen

*puts on Village People*

My gay friend uses the term "fag" but I'm very careful about the company I'd use the term in. He's licensed to, I'm not.

Quite true, the same is applicable to my friends, however if meant in contempt any homophobic term is inherently wrong.

I just think it's a very limited view you have of gay sex.

Seconded. Anal sex for gays is to missionnary position for straights: a widely known classic, but making love is by no means limited to aforementionned position.

Use your imagination, poeple. There are many ways of making love as there are persons in love. Sex doesn't stop(or start) at penetration.

My take on the issue is, you use the word, I have a problem with it. I don't care what the intent is and whether anyone is gay or not. As far as I'm concerned, it's a major insult. Period.

Look, I know you're not homophobic since you're one of the people I've talked to the most from this game. Having said that, if I hear those words, I'll get rightly angered.

Of course. Which is why I never use them on public forums. Or around anyone I know who would be angered by them.

Where did he get his "license" to use the word? I didn't know you could get a "license" to use a patently offensive word. :rolleyes:
Dear, when you're as much of a fag as, say, me or Fass, you get to use the word "fag", at least insofar as you're referring to yourself. 'Course, using that word to refer to somebody you don't know very well, and aren't certain he won't be offended is still off-limits.

Just think how utterly ridiculous it'd be to act offended if a black person referred to himself as a "******". However, another black person might be offended if s/he was called a "******", even if by another black person.Well, the same principles applies to "fags".

this is pretty gay.

Dear, when you're as much of a fag as, say, me or Fass, you get to use the word "fag", at least insofar as you're referring to yourself. 'Course, using that word to refer to somebody you don't know very well, and aren't certain he won't be offended is still off-limits.

Just think how utterly ridiculous it'd be to act offended if a black person referred to himself as a "******". However, another black person might be offended if s/he was called a "******", even if by another black person.Well, the same principles applies to "fags".

That makes no sense whatsoever. You can call Fass a fag because you both gay, but if anyone else that's not gay calls Fass a fag, then that's homophobia.

Dear, when you're as much of a fag as, say, me or Fass, you get to use the word "fag", at least insofar as you're referring to yourself. 'Course, using that word to refer to somebody you don't know very well, and aren't certain he won't be offended is still off-limits.

Just think how utterly ridiculous it'd be to act offended if a black person referred to himself as a "******". However, another black person might be offended if s/he was called a "******", even if by another black person.Well, the same principles applies to "fags".
So the trick is to find out who is offended and who isn't.... pretty easy

All you need are 2 good legs and some stamina :D

The word "******" is very much taboo and is used specifically (unless it's gangsta, and that is a completely different tone of voice) as an insult, and a discriminatory one at that.

Just like faggot is, which you were so proud of using.

I feel like the Queen

*puts on Village People*
I can beat you (off).
I feel like a Dancing Queen.

*puts on ABBA*

That makes no sense whatsoever. You can call Fass a fag because you both gay, but if anyone else that's not gay calls Fass a fag, then that's homophobia.
I differ. Even though I'm gay, I don't get to call Fass a fag unless I know him, and that I know that he's not likely to be offended by it. Not everyone has the same degree of sensibility over words with a heavy pejorative history, and we have to respect other's feelings.

So, Fass can be offended if I call him a fag. He doesn't get to be offended if I call myself or another of my friends who is ok with it a fag, though.

I hope I'm making sense.

The use of the word "gay" has gone from meaning happy, to homosexual and now in some places gay has been twisted to mean bad or uncool. Now Fass, don't get angry over this, but please, share how you feel about the new use of the word which (I think) is spreading quite quickly.
Personally, I don't really like using 'gay' to describe something, as it doesn't quite seem right. How do you feel about the use of it? Do you use it often? Does anyone still use it to describe being happy?
Do you even care?

It is defiantly going out of style, thank goodness. Being part of the gay-community, I find it irritating. I've never found it to be personally offensive, but I know some who do.

All you need are 2 good legs and some stamina :D
I really have a dirty mind...

Lol, that's exactly what I've been saying. As long as you know the person isn't offended by it, say it. I think I misread/interpretated.

Now, what I'd REALLY like to know is how people managed to make happy = homosexual.

While we're at it, why don't we work on how "faggot" went from a bundle of sticks, to a derogatory slang?

I can beat you (off).
I feel like a Dancing Queen.

*puts on ABBA*
Oh yeah?

*puts on a moustache and leather pants*

*goes out dancing in the Blue Oyster Bar*

I really have a dirty mind...
Not THOSE legs :rolleyes:

I only have one of those :p

Lol, that's exactly what I've been saying. As long as you know the person isn't offended by it, say it. I think I misread/interpretated.
Yeah.

Although, sometimes I don't use it when in a public palce, for example. My reasoning is the following: I have no idea who might be gay in the bus, for example. For all I know, there's a gay kid in there you might not understand that we're using the word in a non-pejorative way, and could be hurt by it.

There's a lot of internalized homophobia going on, so I always watch the circumstances closely whenever I feel there might be someone around who could misinterpret what I'm saying.

Dear, when you're as much of a fag as, say, me or Fass, you get to use the word "fag"You don't seem to get it. I'm gay and I take offense to *anyone* using that word no matter what.

Sounds like a black dude I know who calls everyone ******.

Or another big friend who calls everyone fat.

Genious :D
I just call everyone slacker

You don't seem to get it. I'm gay and I take offense to *anyone* using that word no matter what.

We all have words we dislike

It only really becomes a problem for me when it is taken derogatory or discriminatory

You don't seem to get it. I'm gay and I take offense to *anyone* using that word no matter what.
You don't get to be offended if I refer to *myself* as a fag.

I'll grant you that you might be if I started calling *you* a fag, which is something I don't do.

You don't get to be offended if I refer to *myself* as a fag.

I'll grant you that you might be if I started calling *you* a fag, which is something I don't do.
Yup personally I don't give a flying fuck what people call themselves

Dear, when you're as much of a fag as, say, me or Fass, you get to use the word "fag"

Even though I'm gay, I don't get to call Fass a fag unless I know him, and that I know that he's not likely to be offended by it.

Kooky.

Here's what I think on using "gay" as a negative adjective. The problem is not so much that it is offensive, although of course it is/can be. If "offensiveness" was the main problem it would technically be ok to use the word when there aren't any people around who may be offended by it. To me, the real problem is oppression through language by linking gayness with all manner of negative things. It's sort of like chastising someone for "throwing like a girl," which is based on the underlying assumption of female inferiority. Same deal. When gay is used as a perjorative gayness is associated with exclusion, inferiority and abnormality, and I think thats majorly screwed up.

Now, what I'd REALLY like to know is how people managed to make happy = homosexual.
I used this amazing invention called the 'internet'. It allows ppl from all round the world to find out all sorts of cool stuff.
Like the use of the term gay:

...the "good-natured word 'gay'" has been leading a double life. Although many people believe "gay" simply meant lighthearted or cheerful until it was shanghaied by the preverts, the truth is the word has long had a secondary connotation of sexual licentiousness. As early as 1637 the Oxford English Dictionary gives one meaning as "addicted to social pleasures and dissipations. Often euphemistically: Of loose and immoral life"--whence, presumably, the term "gay blade." In the 1800s the term was used to refer to female prostitutes; to "gay it" meant "to copulate."

By 1935 the word "geycat," meaning a homosexual boy, had found its way into print, giving a clue as to the direction things were starting to go. Sure enough, by 1955 "gay" had acquired its present meaning, as P. Wildeblood notes in Against Law: "Most of the officers had been "gay' ... an American euphemism for homosexual." Actually, gays had probably been using the term among themselves long before.

Ghettoization of the term began to occur in the 60s so that today "gay" in the sense of "homosexual" has chased out all other uses of the word. This is more the result of the squeamish attitude of the straight world than any organized campaign on the part of gays, and in any case it's no big deal; there are plenty of other words that cover the same territory that the non-sexual meanings of "gay" did.

At one time "gay" referred strictly to male homosexuals; female homosexuals were called lesbians. (This distinction may no longer hold true--today one hears lesbians being referred to as gay.) Whether all male homosexuals would consent to be called gay--whether, for the matter, all gays would consent to be called homosexual--is a question I will not presume to answer. I am quite certain, however, that most gays would reject the implication that "gay" necessarily implies promiscuity.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_271b.html

Back onto the term faggot, I love this pic:
http://creativedynamix.com/grafix/faggot2.jpg
http://creativedynamix.com/grafix/faggot2.jpg

Kooky.
Well, spoony.

Sorry if I offended.

The use of the word "gay" has gone from meaning happy, to homosexual and now in some places gay has been twisted to mean bad or uncool.
What, on playgrounds? Outside the Kwiki-Mart?

Like I give a crap what children have to say about shit they don't understand.

What, on playgrounds? Outside the Kwiki-Mart?

Like I give a crap what children have to say about shit they don't understand.
If you were Jewish and heard kids saying "dang, that's so jew" while meaning "this really sucks", I'd think you'd give a crap.

So, while I hear kids saying "man, this is so gay", using a word that refers to my sexual orientation in a derogatory manner, I usually feel rather angry.

Kids don't understand because they're often kept into ignorance. Luckily, this is changing, thanks to better sexual education. Albeit too slowly for my tastes.

If you were Jewish and heard kids saying "dang, that's so jew" while meaning "this really sucks", I'd think you'd give a crap.

So, while I hear kids saying "man, this is so gay", using a word that refers to my sexual orientation in a derogatory manner, I usually feel rather angry.

Kids don't understand because they're often kept into ignorance. Luckily, this is changing, thanks to better sexual education. Albeit too slowly for my tastes.
You make it sound like I'm not gay.

You make it sound like I'm not gay.
Well, I just don't see how you can not give a crap about people using a word that is meant to describe you (or an important facet of your identity) in a way that associates it with everything that is despicable and not worthy of respect.

Well, I just don't see how you can not give a crap about people using a word that is meant to describe you (or an important facet of your identity) in a way that associates it with everything that is despicable and not worthy of respect.
Well, I can, because I don't care about the opinions of children. And my original assertion was that the only places where this supposed "new meaning" is being employed are playgrounds and stripmalls. I thought you'd pick up on the implication that the OP must himself be an ankle-biter, if he thought this was anything "new".

I heard people (children, my age - more than thirty years ago, now) calling unhip things "gay". A goodly chunk of the people who did turned out - wait for it - gay.

I grew a thicker skin over time, and I realized that I simply didn't give a damn what some young snot-nosed pre-teens thought about me, or most other things for that matter. As far as I'm concerned, until they're capable of saying something interesting, they pretty much don't register on my consciousness.

And that, dear friend, is precisely how I can "not give a crap about people using a word that is meant to describe me in a way that associates it with everything that is despicable and not worthy of respect".

Because I'm an adult.

Well, I can, because I don't care about the opinions of children. And my original assertion was that the only places where this supposed "new meaning" is being employed are playgrounds and stripmalls.
*snip*

I'm afraid this phenomenon is much, much more widespread that you think. I frequently hear even people my age, whic means young adults (18 through early twenties) use "gay" in a derogatory term.

And I don't exactly go ballistic over it, you know. It's not like I feel personnally villipended every time I hear. But "thick skin" notwhistanding, I still oppose the principle of the thing, and gently remind people that it is pretty insulting to me whenever I get the chance. Just to make mentalities evolve a little. It's my way of being part of the solution.

I use the term "gay" all the time. Sometimes I go as far as to say "gay-ass".

Example: My gay-ass internet connection crapped out on me.

When people use the term 'gay' for negative purposes, it seems pretty clear that homosexuality has nothing to do with it.. However, I can see how homosexuals would get offended by it. Hmm.

When people use the term 'gay' for negative purposes, it seems pretty clear that homosexuality has nothing to do with it.. However, I can see how homosexuals would get offended by it. Hmm.

New law: You can only say "gay" if you are.

New law: You can only say "gay" if you are.

No, no new law, you just don't get to whine when people understand why you use "gay" negatively and why it reflects poorly on you.

The use of the word "gay" has gone from meaning happy, to homosexual and now in some places gay has been twisted to mean bad or uncool. Now Fass, don't get angry over this, but please, share how you feel about the new use of the word which (I think) is spreading quite quickly.
Personally, I don't really like using 'gay' to describe something, as it doesn't quite seem right. How do you feel about the use of it? Do you use it often? Does anyone still use it to describe being happy?
Do you even care?
this question is soooooooo gay:D

Well, I can, because I don't care about the opinions of children. And my original assertion was that the only places where this supposed "new meaning" is being employed are playgrounds and stripmalls. I thought you'd pick up on the implication that the OP must himself be an ankle-biter, if he thought this was anything "new".

I heard people (children, my age - more than thirty years ago, now) calling unhip things "gay". A goodly chunk of the people who did turned out - wait for it - gay.

I grew a thicker skin over time, and I realized that I simply didn't give a damn what some young snot-nosed pre-teens thought about me, or most other things for that matter. As far as I'm concerned, until they're capable of saying something interesting, they pretty much don't register on my consciousness.

And that, dear friend, is precisely how I can "not give a crap about people using a word that is meant to describe me in a way that associates it with everything that is despicable and not worthy of respect".

Because I'm an adult.
Clearly, as an adult, you don't get out too much.. Well, except for hanging around the childrens playground it seems.
An ankle-biter? Ahem. Interesting... So, because it's become big in the last few years, I'm an ankle biter for suggesting it's new? Wtf. Your logic sucks.
When a "pre-teen" person says "that's gay", they are not saying "that's homosexual, therefore it's bad". They are infact saying, "it's bad".

When they say 'gay', homosexuality does not cross their mind.

The use of the word "gay" has gone from meaning happy, to homosexual and now in some places gay has been twisted to mean bad or uncool. Now Fass, don't get angry over this, but please, share how you feel about the new use of the word which (I think) is spreading quite quickly.
Personally, I don't really like using 'gay' to describe something, as it doesn't quite seem right. How do you feel about the use of it? Do you use it often? Does anyone still use it to describe being happy?
Do you even care?
I have no problem using it for any of its meanings same as Fag or Faggot.
What else would i call a cigarette or a bundle of sticks??
New law: You can only say "gay" if you are.
You gonna ban Fruit too?

I have no problem using it for any of its meanings same as Fag or Faggot.
What else would i call a cigarette or a bundle of sticks??

You gonna ban Fruit too?

Sure, why not. It's not like it'll effect me. :P

Well, spoony.

Sorry if I offended.

Like I'd get offended at being called a fag. :P

It was just an interesting juxtaposition.

this question is soooooooo gay:D
Yawn. Done already.

http://www.tallrite.com/LightRelief/englishabuse.htm

LOOK WHAT WE’VE DONE

Do you remember the day
When if you said that you were gay
It meant with joy you could sing and shout ?
A fairy was enchanting,
And dressing up and camping
Was something you did with the Scouts

That carefree age
When an urgent case of AIDS
Was powdered milk we sent to the Sahara.
A fruit was something nice to eat,
A poof was something for your feet,
And a queen was an old tart in a tiara.

You really have to love language evolution don't you.As was stated earlier the old 'Gay' insult is a favourite of 12 year olds;)

No, no new law, you just don't get to whine when people understand why you use "gay" negatively and why it reflects poorly on you.
You always beat me to it Fass. :p

You always beat me to it Fass. :p

My raison d'être is to spite you in this fashion.

My raison d'être is to spite you in this fashion.
*shakes fist*
You horrible, horrible man. :p

don't like when any word is 'Converted' to mean something Negative.

Fag was once a cigerette, (and I believe it was, before that, to describe fuel for campfires.)
Gay meant happy and festive.

A fag still is a cigarette over here in UK, in everyday usage.
At least, around London.
Also, yeah 'gay' does get used a hell of a lot to mean stupid or bad. This is something I remember happening in school from about 8-yr old:

Peisandros: "When a "pre-teen" person says "that's gay", they are not saying "that's homosexual, therefore it's bad". They are infact saying, "it's bad".

When they say 'gay', homosexuality does not cross their mind."

Yeah, but I know people my age (21) who still say 'that's so gay' in this context. It annoyed me even when I was 11, 12 and didn't really know what it meant. But at this age its just ridiculous. We're surely more intelligent than that. These people I'm talking about is people i'm at university with. I don't know what's wrong with them.

Like I'd get offended at being called a fag. :P

It was just an interesting juxtaposition.
I bet you love interesting juxtapositions.:eek:

According to the OED, the a, adv, n. "gay" has dozens of meanings.

slang (chiefly U.S.). Foolish, stupid, socially inappropriate or disapproved of; ‘lame’. since 1978.

homosexual since 1935.

ironically re "good" since 1581.

I find that the use of 'gay' as a negative is already going out of style.
If you watch older movies there will occasionally be a character who is a "sissy" a man displaying effeminate characteristics. And generally they'll be animated and exuberant, since they're comic relief. But since calling a man a sissy, what have you would be an insult, were there a man with those characteristics that were somehow necessary to convey, I can see how like a term like "gay" would be pressed into such service.

I personally do use "gay", along with lame (offensive to the disabled), weak (offensive to IT professionals), dumb (offensive to the autistic?), etc. If two dudes want to get rustic and play cowboy, yay for them. I'm not going to watch, I'm not going to applaud, I'm not going to wave a rainbow flag and cry when I hear an Eminem song. I just don't care.

The negitive connotation it has comes from what it describes, much as cripple, or handicapped. Though being "gay" or "alternatively-aroused" is probably a pretty decent life for those want to live it, to those who don't swing that way, it's an undesirable prospect. This will likely never change. So any simple catch-all lable will necessarily encapulate that aspect too.

If you watch older movies there will occasionally be a character who is a "sissy" a man displaying effeminate characteristics. And generally they'll be animated and exuberant, since they're comic relief. But since calling a man a sissy, what have you would be an insult, were there a man with those characteristics that were somehow necessary to convey, I can see how like a term like "gay" would be pressed into such service.

I personally do use "gay", along with lame (offensive to the disabled), weak (offensive to IT professionals), dumb (offensive to the autistic?), etc. If two dudes want to get rustic and play cowboy, yay for them. I'm not going to watch, I'm not going to applaud, I'm not going to wave a rainbow flag and cry when I hear an Eminem song. I just don't care.

The negitive connotation it has comes from what it describes, much as cripple, or handicapped. Though being "gay" or "alternatively-aroused" is probably a pretty decent life for those want to live it, to those who don't swing that way, it's an undesirable prospect. This will likely never change. So any simple catch-all lable will necessarily encapulate that aspect too.

Dumb = offensive to the deaf. (But its not like they'll hear you say it anyway.)

Damn, this thread is sooo heterosexual.

Damn, this thread is sooo heterosexual.

I find that offensive!

Damn, this thread is sooo heterosexual.

Doesn't have the same ring to it. Your suggestion is so lame.

Like I'd get offended at being called a fag. :P

It was just an interesting juxtaposition.
I didn't think you'd be offended, to be honest.

I admit my choice of words was innapropriate in that context.

I find that offensive!
Boo hoo for you ;)

At least it has the interesting side-effect of making one realize how utterly senseless saying "this thing is so gay" is.

I find that offensive!

Guess what, I don't care, that's your problem, or whatever it is those stupid breeders say.

Guess what, I don't care, that's your problem, or whatever it is those stupid breeders say.
*snickers*

Breeders.

Boo hoo for you ;)

At least it has the interesting side-effect of making one realize how utterly senseless saying "this thing is so gay" is.

I didn't say don't say it, I just decided I would bitch and moan needlessly if you did, even though I know you're not meaning me any offence and I know exactly what you mean. And I agree with you. But still

**bitches incessantly**

I bet you love interesting juxtapositions.:eek:

Mere juxtapositions are frustrating. I like connections a lot more.

How do you feel about the use of it? Do you use it often? Does anyone still use it to describe being happy?
Do you even care?
Dude, that's just gay :D

Dude, that's just gay :D

Yeah, it's not like that exact post has been made 10 times in the thread already, and wasn't funny or original or inventive even the first time. :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's not like that exact post has been made 10 times in the thread already, and wasn't funny or original or inventive even the first time. :rolleyes:
But I like beating the dead horse :D

Yeah, it's not like that exact post has been made 10 times in the thread already, and wasn't funny or original or inventive even the first time.

This is gay. It started off gay and it will surely end gay. It's just gay. There's no other way to describe it. Gay.

This is gay. It started off gay and it will surely end gay. It's just gay. There's no other way to describe it. Gay.
Hmm. I'm sure that there are many other ways to describe it.

Hmm. I'm sure that there are many other ways to describe it.
No no this thread is covered in significant immoral anal penetration all over.
GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY!
The decor is all wrong too.

Anyone that knows me, knows that I usually hate all people equally, so Gays get no special treatment from me, one way, or the other.
That means, I dont hate them, anymore than anyone else.

...except for maybe clowns.....


But...the word "gay" is also partially ingrained on my brain, to also mean "lame..or unpleasant"

Like when you run out of gas, on the way to work... in the rain....thats gay.

Is it wrong to verbally associate homosexuality, or homosexuals with anything unpleasant, or generally cast them in a stereotypical negative light?

Probably....

But no more so than a room full of African Americans calling each other "nigga".

Im also fond of using the phrase "Thats mighty White of ya", when getting the short end of the stick on some kind of deal...does that make me a rascist/homophobe/ Honkey-O-Phobe?

People need to grow thicker skins, and just sit back and enjoy some off-color racial/sub-culture humour, once in a while.
Yes, its wrong, but thats what makes it funny.

I am so gay today!
Gay the gay way!:D

frankly I far prefer obscurely weird, and very english, references to homosexuals such as still picking up twigs in the spring time or bowling from the pavillion end.
P.S. those who like there toast done on three sides probably don't care so I wouldn't beat yourself up about it.

I am so gay today!
Gay the gay way!:D
Yeah i just had a fag in the front seat of my car.

I am so gay today!
Gay the gay way!:D

One thing that interests me is that they say that the meaning of gay is now homosexual. If you think about it, more people use it to say bad than to say homo anyway, it just comes up more in life. So if your rating it on that then using it as a derogratary adjective is correct. If you look for the original meaning, you get happy-skippy. Which is nothing like homo (apart from the steriotype). It seems to be that no matter what way you look at it, the homosexual meaning of gay is the least correct one.

Same with fag. The original meaning of a fag is a cigarette, but it was stolen by bigots to make fun of homosexuals.

Well, it was a bundell of twig or sticks that were to be used as fuel.

I've heard a theory that the reason homosexuals became known as faggots was because an old colloquial term for burning (someone at a stake) was to "burn a faggot."

Also, the bundel of twigs used to make a fascine can also be called a faggot. Which made me laugh when I found out, since it means that Fascist have a fag as their symbol.

(Interestingly, a fag-hag was merely a woman who smoked cigarettes)

The use of the word "gay" has gone from meaning happy, to homosexual and now in some places gay has been twisted to mean bad or uncool.

I think "gay" as a derogatory remark is only slightly younger than the use of it to mean homosexual.

I once read somewhere that the term "gay" has been used as a term for homosexual since at least the 17th Century, and it is only since homosexuality has become more accepted that it is now being more widely used.

The OED records its first use of gay to mean homosexual as being in 1935*, so I think it is doubtful that it was used in the 1600s

*1935 N. ERSINE Underworld & Prison Slang 39 Geycat,..a homosexual boy.

If I were describing someone who was a child born out of wedlock in an atmosphere where it was clear I was not trying to be offensive, yes, I would use the word 'bastard'. As an insult? No, I would not use it.

Except it is possible to argue the word "bastard" has never not had derogatory undertones in its almost all its uses

And similarly one could argue that "gay" to describe homosexuality has always had something about it that pandered to the stereotype of (male) homosexuals being airy-fairy, camp or effeminate etc. Though then again, it was the gay community that co-opted as far as I can tell..


Besides, my arguement isn't limited to fat / obesity. It could happen in the future for people with blond hair (the classic insult "Blond women are dumb airheads" becomes more offensive with the term "blondie" or "yellow-head" or whatever)...

In fact you can stay away from "It could happen"'s in this case, though you'de be better off using "Ginger" which is used as a derogatory term. As David Baddiel said, "There are now only two things you can get away with calling people derogatorilly. The first is middle class, the other is ginger."

I would think if you were attracted to a person of the same sex and you actually got to act on it you would be a lot happier then if you didn't get to act on it....... that's my theory though. (it's probably wrong)

Given the context of the earliest event of gay = homosexual I can find, I would say you are on the right track. Though since it is from a book on prison slang, I think it could mean someone who makes you make you happy ;)

Reminds me a bit of my homosexual best friend, who often refers to himself as a "poof" or a "queer" and suchlike. I can never believe he uses these terms. He doesn't use them seriously, of course, but I'm always concerned he'll offend someone else by his use of them.

I don't know if this is just a British (maybe English) thing, or maybe it is just the homosexuals I know or an international thing. But they seem to take great delight in using the derogatory remarks that are meant to insult them. At least one also enjoys using strait [sp] to mean "gay" in the juvenile sense.

Meh, what ever floats their boat.

Dumb = offensive to the deaf. (But its not like they'll hear you say it anyway.)

Mute surely?


Though whilst we are on the subject on all things "gay" (in all its wonderful and weird definitions). I use "fag" only in two ways, one to mean a cigarette (and yes, to that Prattchet fan fag is used in that sense all over the British Isles to the best of my knowledge), and the to mean a chore, ie "I can't be bothered going to the shops, its such a fag." But the only other person I know to use it in the latter sense is my mother (who I assume I picked it up from), does anyone else use it that way?

Im also fond of using the phrase "Thats mighty White of ya", when getting the short end of the stick on some kind of deal...does that make me a rascist/homophobe/ Honkey-O-Phobe?
Funny. I'll occasionally say, "That was white (of me)" when I do something physically uncoordinated.

http://www.ozyandmillie.org/2003/om20030502.gif

I use the term "gay" to describe things that I don't like, things that piss me off, and other things of that nature. I frankly don't see how homosexuals can get pissed off at it's use considering they stole the term in the first place. Same with fag. The original meaning of a fag is a cigarette, but it was stolen by bigots to make fun of homosexuals.

The way I figure it, as long as I don't use the term to directly disparage homosexuals (which I don't) then they don't have a right to bitch about it. It isn't their word to keep.

actually fag is a bundle of sticks and people called homosexuals as such because anyone convicted of homosexual acts were burnt alive (in the past) using... you got it, fags.

I'm so pretty and witty and gay.

Though whilst we are on the subject on all things "gay" (in all its wonderful and weird definitions). I use "fag" only in two ways, one to mean a cigarette (and yes, to that Prattchet fan fag is used in that sense all over the British Isles to the best of my knowledge), and the to mean a chore, ie "I can't be bothered going to the shops, its such a fag." But the only other person I know to use it in the latter sense is my mother (who I assume I picked it up from), does anyone else use it that way?
This is the first time I've come across it.
Fag is used in the same way as gay is for many things now. Just walking through school yesterday I heard "you're a fag" and "you look gay" and a few others too.

It's the thread that wouldn't die!!!

It's the thread that wouldn't die!!!
I hadn't checked it in nearly two weeks. Thought I should have a little update heh :p.

Though whilst we are on the subject on all things "gay" (in all its wonderful and weird definitions). I use "fag" only in two ways, one to mean a cigarette (and yes, to that Prattchet fan fag is used in that sense all over the British Isles to the best of my knowledge), and the to mean a chore, ie "I can't be bothered going to the shops, its such a fag." But the only other person I know to use it in the latter sense is my mother (who I assume I picked it up from), does anyone else use it that way?

yeh ive heard that usage of the word before but i think its fairly old fashioned. i only use the word fag to refer to cigarettes. 'gay' on the other hand is a tricky one - i never used it to refer to something bad or uncool til i came to uni and all my flatmates say it but it doesnt offend me (but then i wouldnt necessarily refer to myself as gay), but when i go back home i have to be fairly careful cuz my two best friends are raging homos who might get offended by it. they probably wouldnt but i doubt theyd be particularly happy about continual use of it to mean something uncool.

i'm all for human rights and everything, but most of the time when i call something gay (and i do) it's a totally reflexive thing, and i'm pretty tired of getting dirty looks from all the yaoi girls who saw brokeback mountain and rent 8 times and feel the need to tell me about "OMG THIS ONE CHARACTER, AND HE'S THE BEST, BECAUSE HE'S *GAY*!!" like, oh, good, i can tell you really look past sexuality and judge a character based on their personality. i see you're much better than the people who hate gay people. ...lol. that probably made NO sense but i'm annoyed. if you're going to get all upset that someone stole the meanings of gay and faggot, which are already stolen and applied forcefully to homosexuality, you're a hypocrite. i'm sure if i spent my whole life thinking a cigarette was a fag and i was just having a great time smoking my fag and then someone comes up and goes like "A FAG IS A GAY PERSON" i don't want to imagine violent buttsechs while i'm trying to smoke a simple cigarette.

....whatt?? what?? HOW DO I RUINED THIS THREAD. sorry, if you can dig some kind of message out of that, more power to you

It's the thread that wouldn't die!!!
Gentlemen, we are dealing with the undead.