NationStates Jolt Archive

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?

im scared though, they have a missle that can hit israel, and they threatened that if they are attacked, they will respond with missiles

I want to be.. a lumberjack!

This is such a Jesussaves wannabe, but on the US-fanaticism spectrum.

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?
Off you go, then. Declare war on them (you'll need to become a sovereign power first, I believe). Good luck.

And I want to be 6 feet tall but its never gonna happen. Oh wait, bad example, the US will be in Iran in a week.

I'm opossed.

I want to learn magic... Oh well, guess I can't have it all. :(

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?
And I find this this war-mongering offensive:( I might cry if you don't stop. Seriously. I'll cry. And then, you'll have to say sorry. How'd ya like that? Huh? how'd ya like it if I cried? Not very much I bet. Even less if you had to appologize.:rolleyes:

...if all else fails there's the draft

:rolleyes:

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?

What exactly will we fight with? Our Army is stretched to the breaking point as is, and we're swimming in debt as a result of fighting two wars with nations with much fewer people to deal with than Iran. Even before weighing strategic factors, what you are proposing is not simply ridiculous but impossible to boot.

Problem with a big war like this is that...as much as I hate to say it...THE U.S. DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH TROOPS FOR IT. Yes, that's right: with Afghanistan and Iraq, if a problem started up in a big way, we would need help, or a draft.

I want to be.. a lumberjack!

*sings* I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok...

Problem with a big war like this is that...as much as I hate to say it...THE U.S. DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH TROOPS FOR IT. Yes, that's right: with Afghanistan and Iraq, if a problem started up in a big way, we would need help, or a draft.
I said we should bring back the draft if we cant do it in other ways

Problem with a big war like this is that...as much as I hate to say it...THE U.S. DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH TROOPS FOR IT. Yes, that's right: with Afghanistan and Iraq, if a problem started up in a big way, we would need help, or a draft.
And to be honest, after the American Government's conduct over Afghanistan and Iraq, help from anybody besides Blair seems pretty unlikely. (Israel might seem likely, but I doubt that they'd dare even if they didn't have enough problems at the moment already...)

im scared though, they have a missle that can hit israel, and they threatened that if they are attacked, they will respond with missiles

Israel will nuke the shit out of them if Iran so much as points a missile in their direction ... they have a bigger arsenal and a longer range than Iran could ever hope to have.

Actually, a better tactic for Iran might be to threaten to nuke the Saudi oil fields.

*sings* I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok...

*joins in*
I sleep all night and I work all day...

Iran is a mess created entirely by the countries supplying them with the materials and technology to develop nuclear weapons. The US should do nothing until such time we feel that there is an imminent threat to ourselves or an ally, excluding of course the contributing nations who should then be considered in the same exact light as Iran, and delt with as their ally.

*joins in*
I sleep all night and I work all day...

*sings chorus bass*
He's a lumberjack and he's OK
He sleeps all night and works all day...

i'm not a lumberjack, and therefore i don't belong in this thread.

I don't think war should ever be considered with Iran unless as a last resort, I don't think the US understands how ugly it could if nuclear or chemical weapons are deployed, it will make the middle east a mess.

Why isnt "we should not invade iran" one of the poll options?

Israel will nuke the shit out of them if Iran so much as points a missile in their direction ... they have a bigger arsenal and a longer range than Iran could ever hope to have.

Actually, a better tactic for Iran might be to threaten to nuke the Saudi oil fields.

And piss off the Saudis as well as other Middle Eastern Countries? Right now, they are their ace in the hole.

Iran is a mess created entirely by the countries supplying them with the materials and technology to develop nuclear weapons. The US should do nothing until such time we feel that there is an imminent threat to ourselves or an ally, excluding of course the contributing nations who should then be considered in the same exact light as Iran, and delt with as their ally.

Might as well attack now since they have been threatening Israel.

I don't think war should ever be considered with Iran unless as a last resort, I don't think the US understands how ugly it could if nuclear or chemical weapons are deployed, it will make the middle east a mess.

And why do you think we are going through the Diplomatic Dance?

Why isnt "we should not invade iran" one of the poll options?
Because only liberals, communists, perverts and Europeans would ever think that.

Why isnt "we should not invade iran" one of the poll options?

War is never ok. Period Option I believe covers that angle.

Why isnt "we should not invade iran" one of the poll options?

Because this poster is a Jesussaves-type puppet troll.

Might as well attack now since they have been threatening Israel.
To about the same extent as Canada has been threatening the US?

War is never ok. Period Option I believe covers that angle.


No, you're completely wrong again corneliu.

"War is never OK" clearly isnt the same as "we should not invade iran," they very clearly and distinctly mean different things.

Well, War isn't the only way to deal with Iran.

What can Iran do with Nuclear Weapons anyway? If it threatens to launch them, then the International Community can pressure it to abandon its threat. It might just use the Nuclear Weapons for defence.

To about the same extent as Canada has been threatening the US?

Funny. I didn't know Canada threatened to wipe us off the map.

Because this poster is a Jesussaves-type puppet troll.


Probably, but the question still had to be asked.

Why isnt "we should not invade iran" one of the poll options?

Sssssh! This thread is not suitable for logic, so don't ask questions, just smile and sing along:

I cut down trees, I eat my lunch
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shopping and have buttered scones for tea

:D

Funny. I didn't know Canada threatened to wipe us off the map.
Iran hasn't threatened to wipe Israel off the map: "Israel should be wiped off the map," and "We are going to wipe Israel off the map" are not synonymns.

I say we ship a couple dozen Patriot missile batteries to Isreal and Iraq, give them time to set them up, and then give Iran a week to completely abandon their nuclear dreams.

If they don't, send in the AirForce and the Navy to pound them into the stone age. No ground troops, no nation building. Just take out EVERY military target we know of, and then monitor them. Every time they put up a Command center, an airfield, or a bunker, blow it to hell.

Funny. I didn't know Canada threatened to wipe us off the map.


Which countries in the middle east havent threatened israel corneliu?

Those iranians must hate islam badly if they plan to use atomic weapons against the dome of the rock. Maybe they'll attack mecca next.

We have a strong precedent in the world for countries ignoring the mutual destruction deterrant.

The soviet union attacked the US, just like it threatened to.

Also, pakistan is a wasteland now because they used their atomic bombs against india.

Because iran made public speeches against israel, a first in history, and because iranians clearly despise islam, and because of the strong precedent for ignoring assured destruction in nuclear war, we must attack iran as soon as possible.

I say we ship a couple dozen Patriot missile batteries to Isreal and Iraq, give them time to set them up, and then give Iran a week to completely abandon their nuclear dreams.

If they don't, send in the AirForce and the Navy to pound them into the stone age. No ground troops, no nation building. Just take out EVERY military target we know of, and then monitor them. Every time they put up a Command center, an airfield, or a bunker, blow it to hell.

America will then officially be known as a Neo-Imperialist, which the Government denies it is to this day :rolleyes:.

Funny. I didn't know Canada threatened to wipe us off the map.

Yes we drew up plans to invade years ago. Even pretended to be tourists and stole road maps from gas stations.

ran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?

Hahahaha, your a funny guy. You do sound pretty tough going on how it's not okay for Iran to have atomic capability. Explain to me how it is unacceptable for Iran to have nuclear weapons? Can't they act up? Many other nations do it all the time. In fact one nation acted up just recently and there has been no military action against them even after the brutal deaths of 100s of civilians in order to get one or two of the enemy.

Because iran made public speeches against israel, a first in history, and because iranians clearly despise islam, and because of the strong precedent for ignoring assured destruction in nuclear war, we must attack iran as soon as possible.

Funny. I didn't say anything about attacking them right away :D

I think we should let the diplomats work this out.

Which countries in the middle east havent threatened israel corneliu?

Those iranians must hate islam badly if they plan to use atomic weapons against the dome of the rock. Maybe they'll attack mecca next.

We have a strong precedent in the world for countries ignoring the mutual destruction deterrant.

The soviet union attacked the US, just like it threatened to.

Also, pakistan is a wasteland now because they used their atomic bombs against india.

Because iran made public speeches against israel, a first in history, and because iranians clearly despise islam, and because of the strong precedent for ignoring assured destruction in nuclear war, we must attack iran as soon as possible.

Pakistan didn't use them, and they're not a wasteland. Pakistan's Economy is, infact, recovering.

Iran doesn't despise Islam, if it did, then Islam wouldn't rule Iran.

Saying "Attack Iran" is American Nationalism speaking, not logic.

America will then officially be known as a Neo-Imperialist, which the Government denies it is to this day :rolleyes:.
It won't though, because Bush can monitor internet and phone traffic in order to arrest anybody* who says that it is and show them the error of this obviously false and untenable suggestion.

*(Anybody American, which is to say, anybody who actually matters in any sense.)

War is never ok. Period Option I believe covers that angle.
That doesn't even begin to make sense as an absolute, since it implies that it is wrong to even fight defensive wars, and would lead to the destruction of anybody abiding by it unless everybody abides by it -- and we all know that is not not the case.

As for the US army being "stretched-thin", I see it only being a high-intensity couple-day-long air+commando assault lead by a new "coalition of the willing" involving israel and perhaps the europeans.

It would be expected that an internal revolution would insue.

Israel would only reply with nukes if chemical weapons were to be used on it.

As for the person who said they should "nuke saudi oil fields", that would ruin the US and most of the developped world by causing oil prices to climb to hell - it won't happen for that reason, and it doesn't even make sense in the first place.

As far as I can tell, something will happen in the coming weeks as the "EU3" have exhausted all diplomatic pursuits, all while Iran has been further developing their weapons (nuclear tech + missle delivery systems).

Invade Palestina instead... They burned the Danish flag, those sorry bastards!! Noone... NOONE burns Dannebrog, and gets out of it alive!

It won't though, because Bush can monitor internet and phone traffic in order to arrest anybody* who says that it is and show them the error of this obviously false and untenable suggestion.

*(Anybody American, which is to say, anybody who actually matters in any sense.)

They aren't imperialist since they aren't anexing anything -- they are simply HIGHLY interventionalist.

Pakistan didn't use them, and they're not a wasteland. Pakistan's Economy is, infact, recovering.

Iran doesn't despise Islam, if it did, then Islam wouldn't rule Iran.

Saying "Attack Iran" is American Nationalism speaking, not logic.


Will you please invite me to the nobel award dinner next year when you win?

Sure, whatever. :rolleyes:

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?
How about NATO vs your hometown?

Who's with me?

Sure, whatever. :rolleyes:


Dont be modest, you really absolutely are a genius mastermind!

How about NATO vs your hometown?

Who's with me?

Me!

They aren't imperialist since they aren't anexing anything -- they are simply HIGHLY interventionalist.
True, when you put it like that.

Seeing as how I do not wish to be drafted, let's not invade Iran.

How about NATO vs your hometown?

Who's with me?
Why should the rest of his hometown be penalised for harbouring the twerp?

Pakistan didn't use them, and they're not a wasteland. Pakistan's Economy is, infact, recovering.

Iran doesn't despise Islam, if it did, then Islam wouldn't rule Iran.

Saying "Attack Iran" is American Nationalism speaking, not logic.

I love you for that.

And to the person who created the thread. It looks different when you are drafting age. All together I don't trust Iran.

True, when you put it like that.


It depends on whether or not 'imperialism' refers only to territorial conquest and the direct enslavement of people.

I'm not a political "scientist" but i can conceive of "neo imperialism" indicating a different sort of attack on foreign people with a less obvious objective for the attacking country.

War is big business in america, as is oil, two industries which see extraordinarily enormous profits when the US fights in the middle east.

Why should the rest of his hometown be penalised for harbouring the twerp?

For not doing it themsleves.

Might as well attack now since they have been threatening Israel.

But they have been doing so without the ability to carry it out. The ability to deliever on a promise lends a great deal to the justification in eliminating a threat.
Besides, to attack now would allow the rats to scatter. It makes more sense to me to allow for diplomatic solutions to be attempted until such time the responsible nations derail any possibility of a peaceful solution and refuse to correct the situation they created. (and they will) This will allow for them to be correctly identified as enemy states, and much less likely to be able to disrupt operations as they are doing now, under the guise of ally.

Which countries in the middle east havent threatened israel corneliu?

Those iranians must hate islam badly if they plan to use atomic weapons against the dome of the rock. Maybe they'll attack mecca next.

We have a strong precedent in the world for countries ignoring the mutual destruction deterrant.

The soviet union attacked the US, just like it threatened to.

Also, pakistan is a wasteland now because they used their atomic bombs against india.

Because iran made public speeches against israel, a first in history, and because iranians clearly despise islam, and because of the strong precedent for ignoring assured destruction in nuclear war, we must attack iran as soon as possible.


Pakistan didn't use them, and they're not a wasteland. Pakistan's Economy is, infact, recovering.

Iran doesn't despise Islam, if it did, then Islam wouldn't rule Iran.

Saying "Attack Iran" is American Nationalism speaking, not logic.

I love you for that.

And to the person who created the thread. It looks different when you are drafting age. All together I don't trust Iran.


I love him too. The world needs more genius master minds.

I love him too. The world needs more genius master minds.

I agree 100%

How about NATO vs your hometown?

Who's with me?

Yay! Sounds like fun! :D

He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars?!

For not doing it themsleves.
Do they know that he's posting this sort of crap, though?

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?

If you want a war with Iran so badly, you should grab a rifle, fly to Kuwait, and get on the road to Tehran, shooting at anything Arab-looking on the way.

I'm sick and bloody tired of you people trying to push your personal vendettas on the American people and making us foot the bill.

Die for your own damned cause, don't make others do it for you!

How about NATO vs your hometown?

Who's with me?

We don't need to get NATO involved. Just grab some guns, a car with a large trunk, duct tape, a hundred feet of para-cord, and zip-fasteners.

I love him too. The world needs more genius master minds.

Lol, I don't understand whether that's sarcasm or not.

Lol, I don't understand whether that's sarcasm or not.


That seems to be a recurring theme!

Yay! Sounds like fun! :D

He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars?!

NATO + idiot = pain

i cut down trees, i wear high heels
suspenders and a bra
i wish i'd been a girly
just like my dear papa

EDIT: found it! :D

Israel will nuke the shit out of them if Iran so much as points a missile in their direction ... they have a bigger arsenal and a longer range than Iran could ever hope to have.

Actually, a better tactic for Iran might be to threaten to nuke the Saudi oil fields.

Or they could nuke themselves

Do they know that he's posting this sort of crap, though?
Pfffft...who cares?
What works for Afghanistan works for his hometown. And if not, we might find some WMD there.

We already risked 2,000 soldiers (that died) in Iraq (not to mention those rape and abuse pictures of Iraqi Civilians and the fact that we didn't find Weapons of Mass Destruction in the country), why sacrafice more for Iran?

Leave it to the Diplomats to sort this out.

We already risked 2,000 soldiers (that died) in Iraq (not to mention those rape and abuse pictures of Iraqi Civilians and the fact that we didn't find Weapons of Mass Destruction in the country), why sacrafice more for Iran?

Leave it to the Diplomats to sort this out.

No one was raped (at least no pics)... 2000 deaths is a relatively small number for a war.

Try telling that to the parents and relatives though :(

Clearly, what needs to be done in this instance is a matter of subtlity. Please recall the iranian air force, comprised of Russian fighters... when Iran threatened the soviet union back in the 80's, the russians took away all the mechanics and personelle who had been maintaining the planes... within a week, the entire iranian air force was perminantly grounded.

One well-placed kill is much more effective than a single nuke.

:sniper:

One well-placed kill is much more effective than a single nuke.
:sniper:

What if the well-placed kill is caused by a nuke?

If you want a war with Iran so badly, you should grab a rifle, fly to Kuwait, and get on the road to Tehran, shooting at anything Arab-looking on the way.

I'm sick and bloody tired of you people trying to push your personal vendettas on the American people and making us foot the bill.

Die for your own damned cause, don't make others do it for you!



We don't need to get NATO involved. Just grab some guns, a car with a large trunk, duct tape, a hundred feet of para-cord, and zip-fasteners.
I would love to get drafted, I think everyone should serve. But why would I shoot anything arab-looking, most Iranians are Persian or Araian. Good luck taking out my town, we all love Bush and all have guns, so will fight off anyone. I got 2 colt .45's, a .50 cal sniper rifle and a modified ak(all legal) so bring on NATO.

I got 2 colt .45's, a .50 cal sniper rifle and a modified ak(all legal) so bring on NATO.
Good luck. :D

I'm still trying to figure out who the puppeteer is... ;)

Thats a much more fun game. :D :D Wild accusations and clams being thrown around... :p

I would love to get drafted, I think everyone should serve. But why would I shoot anything arab-looking, most Iranians are Persian or Araian. Good luck taking out my town, we all love Bush and all have guns, so will fight off anyone. I got 2 colt .45's, a .50 cal sniper rifle and a modified ak(all legal) so bring on NATO.

So, wait... you aren't willing to join the military, but you'd love to be drafted? You sense not make.

I personally happen to be a proponent of Just War Theory, so, meh. The draft is a sin against God and Nature.

Good luck taking out my town, we all love Bush and all have guns, so will fight off anyone.

yeah, well...my town can beat up your town :rolleyes:

yeah, well...my town can beat up your town :rolleyes:
Bring it on

Your poll options suck. What if I think war with Iran is a dumb idea but I think war can be okay?

Your poll options suck. What if I think war with Iran is a dumb idea but I think war can be okay?
Sorry, that slipped my mind. If your unsure just vote for the no war one. But why would you be for war, but just not this one? This war is important, are you unamerican or something?

Your poll options suck. What if I think war with Iran is a dumb idea but I think war can be okay?
what did you expect?

What exactly will we fight with? Our Army is stretched to the breaking point as is, and we're swimming in debt as a result of fighting two wars with nations with much fewer people to deal with than Iran. Even before weighing strategic factors, what you are proposing is not simply ridiculous but impossible to boot.

Ahh, the prophecies are coming true, WWIII lingers around the corner... Now all we need is for China to Invade Taiwan and North Korea to invade South Korea and SHABANG!!!!

NATO + idiot = pain

i cut down trees, i wear high heels
suspenders and a bra
i wish i'd been a girly
just like my dear papa

EDIT: found it! :D

Dear mama, not papa

Sorry, that slipped my mind. If your unsure just vote for the no war one. But why would you be for war, but just not this one? This war is important, are you unamerican or something?
Technically I'm Canadian, so yeah, definitely unamerican :p

I am for war against, say, Hitler, who did something deserving of getting his ass kicked. I am not for war against Ahmadinejad, who has merely said mean things. Stopping people from saying mean things isn't worth lives.

Technically I'm Canadian, so yeah, definitely unamerican :p

I am for war against, say, Hitler, who did something deserving of getting his ass kicked. I am not for war against Ahmadinejad, who has merely said mean things. Stopping people from saying mean things isn't worth lives.
No, but stopping people from building weapons that they will use to wipe out half the world is.

No, but stopping people from building weapons that they will use to wipe out half the world is.
can you tell the future? how do you know they will use them to wipe out exactly half the world?

No, but stopping people from building weapons that they will use to wipe out half the world is.
Ten years.

We have ten bloody years to worry about this. There is no need to rush. Why is this so complicated for people to understand?

No, but stopping people from building weapons that they will use to wipe out half the world is.
There is no evidence that Iran would use its nukes to wipe out the world.

and im pretty sure they aren't that stupid to use nuclear weapons for no reason at all. If they dropped a nuke, heck even ten, the entire rest of the national community will side against them, even fellow Muslims, and if they use too many nukes, they would certainly destroy themselves. No one is that stupid, not even Bush.

Ten years.

We have ten bloody years to worry about this. There is no need to rush. Why is this so complicated for people to understand?

What are talking about, Iran is threat now! if we wait ten years, we will be dead. Look, Iran wants Israel wiped out, supports terrorist orgs. and is helping the terrorists in Iraq, this is a act of war! If it is war they want, it is war they shall have!! We are a superpower, we will not run, we will not back down!!! I call for a draft to able to meet all threats to our nation, also we might want to start training teens to take up the fight when the time comes for them to protect great American power from her evil and murderous enemys form europe to Africa and South America. I predict America can maintain our way of life for thousands of years!

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?
*points at him*

*laughs*

*cough cough*

*laughs*

I would love to get drafted, I think everyone should serve. But why would I shoot anything arab-looking, most Iranians are Persian or Araian. Good luck taking out my town, we all love Bush and all have guns, so will fight off anyone. I got 2 colt .45's, a .50 cal sniper rifle and a modified ak(all legal) so bring on NATO.
*LMAO harder*

*cough cough*

*LMAO*

we all love Bush
*ROFL*

What are talking about, Iran is threat now! if we wait ten years, we will be dead. Look, Iran wants Israel wiped out, supports terrorist orgs. and is helping the terrorists in Iraq, this is a act of war! If it is war they want, it is war they shall have!! We are a superpower, we will not run, we will not back down!!! I call for a draft to able to meet all threats to our nation, also we might want to start training teens to take up the fight when the time comes for them to protect great American power from her evil and murderous enemys form europe to Africa and South America. I predict America can maintain our way of life for thousands of years!

We should let Iran build nukes and then give them to all of her neighbors. Either peace will ensue or the Mid-East will become a radioactive plate (and they won't be able to blame us!).

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?
Tell you what--you get your shotgun and your Rambo Underoos and go get 'em tiger.

It never fails to make me think when people object to the "wipe off the map" comment. I mean really, if they want to have maps that show a big blank spot where Israel is, who are we to say otherwise? Is it illegal to have erroneous maps now? No it isn't!

I'm slightly half-kidding here.

But I don't think "OMG they're gonna have nukes" is a good reason to attack anyone. Period. End of story. The USSR had nukes, did we attack them? No? Okay then.

Having nuclear weapons is not our priveledge. In case anyone's been fucking asleep, they were invented over 60 years ago.

You can't prevent the spread of technology. It's a pipe dream.

If you really want to make sure no one has nukes, ever, then invent yourself a time machine, travel back in time, and make sure they were never invented by the US.

If you want to make sure nukes are not the all-powerful doomsday devices they are, put some research into ABM and SDI style defenses. Or is research too hard to advocate, and war too easy? Especially when you don't have to do either, you get to sit home on your ass and advocate other people go fight to make you feel safer while you watch it on TV, right?

What are talking about, Iran is threat now! if we wait ten years, we will be dead. Look, Iran wants Israel wiped out, supports terrorist orgs. and is helping the terrorists in Iraq, this is a act of war! If it is war they want, it is war they shall have!! We are a superpower, we will not run, we will not back down!!! I call for a draft to able to meet all threats to our nation, also we might want to start training teens to take up the fight when the time comes for them to protect great American power from her evil and murderous enemys form europe to Africa and South America. I predict America can maintain our way of life for thousands of years!
Ever thought of becoming a comedian? Alternatively. Grow. Up. :)

Thousands of years...lol I would be surprised if it could even last a few more centuries. And by the way, Europe isn't your enemy...well not for now anyway. We are merely ensuring that our future is protected.

Jesus, I'm die laughing. :D

What are talking about, Iran is threat now! if we wait ten years, we will be dead."everybody" is going to die?
Look, Iran wants Israel wiped out, supports terrorist orgs. and is helping the terrorists in Iraq, this is a act of war!And how do you know?
If it is war they want, it is war they shall have!! We are a superpower, we will not run, we will not back down!!!ROFL!
I call for a draft to able to meet all threats to our nation, also we might want to start training teens to take up the fight when the time comes for them to protect great American power from her evil and murderous enemys form europe to Africa and South America.Say goodbye to democracy and freedom my friend...
I predict America can maintain our way of life for thousands of years!Tough chance buddy

Jesus, I'm die laughing. :D
I would love to say that this thread is a joke, and credit the poster with some intelligence, but I think he/she is actually serious. :p :eek:

Ever thought of becoming a comedian? Alternatively. Grow. Up. :)

Thousands of years...lol I would be surprised if it could even last a few more centuries. And by the way, Europe isn't your enemy...well not for now anyway. We are merely ensuring that our future is protected.

By supplying Iran with the ability to create nuclear weapons? Interesting stratgey. I assume that by doing so you hope that they will not use them on you?

By supplying Iran with the ability to create nuclear weapons? Interesting stratgey. I assume that by doing so you hope that they will not use them on you?
You have noticed that the UK and France are attempting to stop the nuclear program though, haven't you? Russia does still supply them, but then again Russia is not in the EU, and Russia only does what is good for Russia and no one else but Russia.

im scared though, they have a missle that can hit israel, and they threatened that if they are attacked, they will respond with missiles
Fuck, if Israel goes to war with Iran, I say we help Iran. That’ll surprise those potato pancake eating, tiny hat wearing accountants.
Maybe then those other kosher keeping people, you know the ones that wear towels, will like us a bit more.

Not unless there's no other recourse. Going to war too early will do nothing but inflame radical sentiment in Iran, making it virtually impossible to rebuild the nation if we remove the regime and making it even more hardline if we don't. The best thing to do is to negotiate, and if we can stop their nuke program it will hopefully make the extremist president lose a lot of credibility in Iran.

If Iran really wants uranium, let Russia make it for them. Then, they've got the fuel but not the weapons-producing capability.

Fuck, if Israel goes to war with Iran, I say we help Iran. That’ll surprise those potato pancake eating, tiny hat wearing accountants.
Maybe then those other kosher keeping people, you know the ones that wear towels, will like us a bit more.

Oh the laughter!

We should let Iran build nukes and then give them to all of her neighbors. Either peace will ensue or the Mid-East will become a radioactive plate (and they won't be able to blame us!).

that idea about giving everyone nukes is interesting, its secured peace between the major powers that have had them for the last 60 years, of course the major powers im referring to weren't (or weren't likely to be overthrown by) religious extremists.

For not doing it themsleves.

Which is of course, why Fascism won the Second World War and is now the accepted form of government throughout the civilised world.

You have noticed that the UK and France are attempting to stop the nuclear program though, haven't you? Russia does still supply them, but then again Russia is not in the EU, and Russia only does what is good for Russia and no one else but Russia.

I most certainly acknowledge the UK's efforts in this area, however France and Germany are every bit as responsible and should be held equally accountable for any hostilities Iran undertakes as a result.

there is international support for a peaceful resolution but if america invades then that goes away (well unless you count israel who want to bomb them again)

also unless americans don't get this (note i'm only counting the stupid ones so all you smart americans out there don't be offended) you can't actually attack a country where the state is well armed, popular and actually has WMD's because you lose very badly (and quickly)

I most certainly acknowledge the UK's efforts in this area, however France and Germany are every bit as responsible and should be held equally accountable for any hostilities Iran undertakes as a result.
They are at least attempting to put a stop on its nuclear programme. If you really want to point that finger of yours so badly at someone and put the blame on them, Russia is your best bet. It only began condemning Iran's actions after the president made his venomous statements about Israel.

I most certainly acknowledge the UK's efforts in this area, however France and Germany are every bit as responsible and should be held equally accountable for any hostilities Iran undertakes as a result.
What the hell are you talking about?! France, UK and Germany came out a few short weeks ago with a UNIFIED statement condemning Iran's actions.

Oh sorry.... this is just typical anti-France/anti-German stuff is it?

What the hell are you talking about?! France, UK and Germany came out a few short weeks ago with a UNIFIED statement condemning Iran's actions.

Oh sorry.... this is just typical anti-France/anti-German stuff is it?
Apparently they were supplying Iran with the materials necessary to embark on its nuclear programme. I have no idea whether this is true or not, yet nor do I care, mainly due to the fact that they now oppose it. Russia's stance, on the other hand, is questionable. This whole anti-France/anti-German thing is really getting old.

Clearly, what needs to be done in this instance is a matter of subtlity. Please recall the iranian air force, comprised of Russian fighters... when Iran threatened the soviet union back in the 80's, the russians took away all the mechanics and personelle who had been maintaining the planes... within a week, the entire iranian air force was perminantly grounded.

One well-placed kill is much more effective than a single nuke.

:sniper:

Good point, bad story.

One of the random fields of knowledge I have is the Iranian military from 1970's on... Very random.

Anyways, america supplied the Iranians with F-14's, F-4's, F-5's, F-86's, and other planes during the Shah's rule until '79. On the opposite side, Iraq was equipped with Mig's(21's, 23's, 25's) and Mirages(F1's, maybe others).

After the revolution, america stopped supporting the Iranians, but they didn't switch to a russian airforce. They used their american aircraft in the Iraq-iran war, to good success, although the Tomcats fell apart for the most part without maintainance, etc. There may or may not have been russian help later in the war, with rumored upgrades to the planes by russians.

So your point is right, but the details are off.

Jesus, I'm die laughing. :D

"everybody" is going to die?
And how do you know?
ROFL!
Say goodbye to democracy and freedom my friend...
Tough chance buddy
I know they are because the media told me, our media is excellent and is almost never wrong. We to train them to keep freedom. And if the Romans can have an empire for 100's of years, why cant we have one for 1000's? We are better than the Roman empire anyway.

I know they are because the media told me, our media is excellent and is almost never wrong. We to train them to keep freedom. And if the Romans can have an empire for 100's of years, why cant we have one for 1000's? We are better than the Roman empire anyway.

Our media is so full of BS, it's incredible. CNN, Fox... hell, the only thing that's close to objective is PBS and NPR and even that's a matter for doubt.

I know they are because the media told me, our media is excellent and is almost never wrong. We to train them to keep freedom. And if the Romans can have an empire for 100's of years, why cant we have one for 1000's? We are better than the Roman empire anyway.
I can't help but think that you're having everyone here for a ride. I mean, you're a caricature, for crying out loud. You're like Sean Hannity's retarded nephew. People like you don't really exist, do they?

I can't help but think that you're having everyone here for a ride. I mean, you're a caricature, for crying out loud. You're like Sean Hannity's retarded nephew. People like you don't really exist, do they?

No, they don't. He's a puppet program created by CIA and NSA agents with too much time on their hands and subsidized by CNN, MSNBC, ABC, Fox, and BBC.

I can't help but think that you're having everyone here for a ride. I mean, you're a caricature, for crying out loud. You're like Sean Hannity's retarded nephew. People like you don't really exist, do they?
Oh im sure they do (Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter) but I think he's really just being sarcastic about everything and letting us on. I can only hope that's the case.

I can't help but think that you're having everyone here for a ride. I mean, you're a caricature, for crying out loud. You're like Sean Hannity's retarded nephew. People like you don't really exist, do they?
No need to be mean, Sean Hannity is a great man and a better journalist. I get all my news from him and Bill O'Reilly because they are fair and balanced. In what am I a "caricature"?

He is one of the best impersonators of an American Nationalist I have seen, probably because he isn't being too much more hardcore than they are(though a few points show it to be obvious).

Congrats.

No need to be mean, Sean Hannity is a great man and a better journalist. I get all my news from him and Bill O'Reilly because they are fair and balanced. In what am I a "caricature"?

I think the issue is that you do a good job reinforcing all of the stereotypes that the left wing folks on here have about us right wing folks.

It scares them because they can't be sure you're being honest or if you're just yanking their chain.

I think the issue is that you do a good job reinforcing all of the stereotypes that the left wing folks on here have about us right wing folks.

It scares them because they can't be sure you're being honest or if you're just yanking their chain.
Im not reinforcing anything Im just a man who loves his country, and Fox news.

Im not reinforcing anything Im just a man who loves his country, and Fox news.

I guess that Fox gave the largest subsidies for this program....

Im not reinforcing anything Im just a man who loves his country, and Fox news.
Okay, we've been had. lol good job, buddy. Keep it up! :D

Im not reinforcing anything Im just a man who loves his country, and Fox news.

LOL - come to DC. I'll get you a hat.

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?



You scare me, I want to avoid war at all costs. Why do you want to drag us into another Unnecessary war?

You scare me, I want to avoid war at all costs. Why do you want to drag us into another Unnecessary war?

Avoiding war at all costs. Interesting.

You'd be willing to avoid war if it meant a nuke taking out Israel, New York, Washington or LA?

I'm not saying that's probable or even possible, but I don't get the whole "avoid war at all costs" mentality when there are obviously costs that are too high.

Avoiding war at all costs. Interesting.

You'd be willing to avoid war if it meant a nuke taking out Israel, New York, Washington or LA?

I'm not saying that's probable or even possible, but I don't get the whole "avoid war at all costs" mentality when there are obviously costs that are too high.



Why would they nuke us? Most nations only do that in defense, we don't need to make them feel attacked. I just don't get the whole invade people as option 1 thing. Diplomacy is the best way, this can be done without war.

Why would they nuke us? Most nations only do that in defense, we don't need to make them feel attacked. I just don't get the whole invade people as option 1 thing. Diplomacy is the best way, this can be done without war.

Because some people can't stand having a big hammer and not being able to use it. It's that simple. If you want peace, you prepare for war.

Because some people can't stand having a big hammer and not being able to use it. It's that simple. If you want peace, you prepare for war.

Ironically, people are less likely to use their hammer if the person they want to whack with it has one that hurts every bit as much.

Why would they nuke us? Most nations only do that in defense, we don't need to make them feel attacked. I just don't get the whole invade people as option 1 thing. Diplomacy is the best way, this can be done without war.

Diplomacy is only effective if you back it up with the willingness and the capability to use force. If you can't back up what you say or you're unwilling to back it up, you might as well be talking to the wall.

I don't think going to war with Iran is the right thing to do at this point, but I also think it would be foolish of us to take it off the table. We don't know what it will take to stop the Iranians from continuing their weapons programs (but at least we know they actually exist this time).

War is terrible, and it should never be the first option, and I don't think it has been used that way. But at the same time, "avoiding it at all costs" won't make us safer.

Because some people can't stand having a big hammer and not being able to use it. It's that simple. If you want peace, you prepare for war.




Then maybe those people shouldn't have the hammer? Bombing for peace is like f**king for virginity. 90% of problems can be solved without war.

Why would they nuke us? Most nations only do that in defense, we don't need to make them feel attacked. I just don't get the whole invade people as option 1 thing. Diplomacy is the best way, this can be done without war.
Exactly. No one is ever going to use another nuke in a really looooong time after we saw the horrors of what the devastation is, and the fear of nukes solidified by the following Cold War. No terrorist is that stupid to use a nuke, not even Bush.

EDIT: for the sake of useless argument, I'm not implying that Bush is a terrorist.

Exactly. No one is ever going to use another nuke in a really looooong time after we saw the horrors of what the devastation is, and the fear of nukes solidified by the following Cold War. No terrorist is that stupid to use a nuke, not even Bush.

That and nuclear proliferation. All the cool kids have 'em, after all!

Diplomacy is only effective if you back it up with the willingness and the capability to use force. If you can't back up what you say or you're unwilling to back it up, you might as well be talking to the wall.

I don't think going to war with Iran is the right thing to do at this point, but I also think it would be foolish of us to take it off the table. We don't know what it will take to stop the Iranians from continuing their weapons programs (but at least we know they actually exist this time).

War is terrible, and it should never be the first option, and I don't think it has been used that way. But at the same time, "avoiding it at all costs" won't make us safer.


That is why nobody cares about the UN, all bark and no bite. I have a bad feeling americans see war as a just way of ending all problems. I use war as a last option.

That is why nobody cares about the UN, all bark and no bite. I have a bad feeling some americans see war as a just way of ending all problems. I use war as a last option.

Fixed it for ya. :p

That is why nobody cares about the UN, all bark and no bite. I have a bad feeling americans see war as a just way of ending all problems. I use war as a last option.
That's the American way! If it don't work; shoot it! If it's not doing what you want; shoot it! TV not getting a picture? Shoot it! Faraway dictators not listening to you? Shoot his people!

Then maybe those people shouldn't have the hammer? Bombing for peace is like f**king for virginity. 90% of problems can be solved without war.

No, it is not: peace, unlike virginity, is not a one shot deal that is forever lost. War is the process of achieving state objectives by other means. If you are not willing to fight for what your state needs to have to ensure your continued welfare, you will quickly find yourself dominated by another government that wants what you have to secure their citizen's welfare.

Moreover, no, 90% of problems are not solvable by other means than war. The desire by one nation to use the territory for another for its own use without having to pay for the privilege is not something amenable to negotiation. The desire to eradicate a race that borders your state is not one amenable to negotiation. The desire to control a vital strategic resource in a contested area when there is not enough to go around is not one amenable to negotiation. In short, your view seems similar to a hurricane-evacuation plan based on the premise that all the citizens are going to sprout wings and fly away: it could work, but only if you were talking about angels and not men.

Ironically, people are less likely to use their hammer if the person they want to whack with it has one that hurts every bit as much.

That was the point of my post: peace is, unfortunately for the world we live in, often best achieved by parity of force and convincing your opponent that getting what he wants would cost too much.

That was the point of my post: peace is, unfortunately for the world we live in, often best achieved by parity of force and convincing your opponent that getting what he wants would cost too much.

Nuclear proliferation facilitates peaceful negotiation.

We need a bumper sticker that says that....

That was the point of my post: peace is, unfortunately for the world we live in, often best achieved by parity of force and convincing your opponent that getting what he wants would cost too much.



Have you not seen the news? Terrorists are ready to die for what they believe in, force is not something they fear. What do you do if your enemy doesn't fear are power or is not afraid to pay the price?

Nuclear proliferation facilitates peaceful negotiation.

We need a bumper sticker that says that....

There is one. It says "An Armed Society is a Polite Society".

:)

Nuclear proliferation facilitates peaceful negotiation.

We need a bumper sticker that says that....




You scare me. :eek: It's sad that some people still want Nukes around, as a Japanese person I can say Nukes NEVER solve a problem.

There is one. It says "An Armed Society is a Polite Society".

:)

But's that's society and refers to handguns. Quite a bit of difference between a national society and handguns and international politics and thermonuclear weapons. :p

Well, we could opt for a full-blown invasion/occupation/rebuilding of Iran: this would be vastly expensive in blood and treasure and really would tie down and stretch our military. We must keep in mind that while our ultimate military strength is de-facto endless, the actual professional military we have - which has proven itself the best military instrument in human history - is limited; there is only so much of it to go around and if we go into Iran, then we'll have to use all of it. This not only means no more troops in Europe (where we don't need them), but no more troops in Japan, Korea and the western Pacific (where we do very much need them as a deterrent to Chinese adventurism). We'd win such a battle, but the returns on it don't seem worth the costs at this point.

We could set up a program of limited military strikes. These would be designed to degrade rather than eliminate Iran's nuclear program while also crippling Iran's air and naval capabilities. This has much to recommend it, but as it does not cut right at the heart of the Iranian regime we could just get ourselves into a long aerial war of attrition in which we never finish the job and eventually get frustrated with the drip-drip-drip of losses with no apparant end or benefit.

The third option is the short-of-war option. In this both the aerial bombardment campaign and the invasion are still available, but we try a different tactic in hopes that it will crack the nut without tying down our military or costing much life. The program: blockade.

It might be time to give the world a lesson in sea power - both how effective it is, and how entirely helpless the world is in the face of concentrated American sea power. People tend to forget about the military dimensions on the oceans simply because of the fact of absolute American dominance on the seas. Much is made of the vulnerability of the west to disruptions in the supply of oil, but not nearly enough is made of the fact that without oil, no Gulf State has any money at all and nothing is made of the fact that nearly all of Gulf oil leaves the Gulf by ship. There aren't too many tankers in the world which can slip past an American naval battle group.


We should concentrate our naval and air forces around Iran and issue an ultimatum - dismantle your nuclear facilities under American supervision, or suffer a complete blockade. The sea part of it would hurt the most, but with our air power we can also - by blowing rail and road bridges and destroying airports - make a fairly effective blockade of Iran by land and air as well. Iran lives on its oil revenues - without a steady stream of western cash from oil sales, the Iranian government lacks the funds to build a pop-gun, let alone a nuclear weapon. They will also lack the funds to pay the security goons which keep the Iranian masses under control.

By taking this course of action we can show that we are only warring upon the Iranian government - by the limited loss of life and only incremental disruption of the average Iranian's life (they are very impoverished already - most of Iran's oil wealth goes to the elite and to the military...the Iranian people see hardly any of it) we can spare ourselves - at least to a certain extent - an outraged Iranian population rallying 'round their mullahs in a patriotic crusade. With our strategic petroleum reserve (which was built for this, or not built for anything at all) we can replace Iran's oil production for at least two months, maybe much longer - and with about 20% of Iran's oil production coming from off shore facilities, we can easily take control of this and keep the oil pumping, thus stretching out our ability to keep the world supplied with oil even as Iran is blockaded.

How long can Iran hold out with no income at all? A week? A month? I don't think it'd even take a month to make them capitulate. And if they don't, then there still remain the military options.

There is one. It says "An Armed Society is a Polite Society".

:)



Here is a better one "An armed society is a dead society"

You scare the shit out of me. :eek: It's sad that some people still want Nukes around, as a Japanese person I can say Nukes NEVER solve a problem.
Well, it did convince the emperor to surrender before the U.S. could launch an invasion force that, assuming you are indeed Japanese, challenges your very existence today.

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?

You go first. :)

You scare the shit out of me. :eek: It's sad that some people still want Nukes around, as a Japanese person I can say Nukes NEVER solve a problem.

As an American citizen who has a particular passion for history and Japanese history in particularly, I can safely say that there were five million more Japanese citizen alive in January 1946 then there would have been had nuclear weapons not been around.

However, think about it. Are you really willing to completely destroy an enemy nation with nukes? Now imagine you're the other guy, are you willing to do that? Let's say you are, are you willing to do that, if it means your own nation gets to join them? I would hope not. Which is on top of the international criticism that such a move would carry, as well as your own conscience, and the knowledge that history will hold you as being in a ring of hell hotter than that shared by Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.

And I'm not for more nuclear weapons. I'm for more nations possessing them.

We've got to do something to stop the Iranians from trading oil in Euros, that would totally screw over the US economy as the dollar would collapse. That's the whole reason we went into Iraq in the first place, it had nothing to do with WMD's or terrorism or freeing the oppressed, it was all to keep the dollar from falling, which is a much more legitimate premise for war than the other three.

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?

Oh, for the LOVE of God, keep it in your pants! :eek:

Here is a better one "An armed society is a dead society"

I think you'd hardly find a people more polite than Montanans. And we're almost universally armed to the teeth.

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?

Ummmm.....this is so wrong on so many levels. Iran is "acting up", thus we need to "deal with them". That's brilliant. Every time anyone does anything we don't like, we should invade. Have you ever looked at military history, ever? Have you even watched the News? Yes we destroyed the Iraqi military might (lets ignore the moment that it couldn't actually have harmed the United States with its military to begin with), but at the cost of utilizing our military in a way for which it was not designed. What does this mean in laymans terms? It means that we spend lots of money and send many good soldiers to their death for little to no economic or military gain. And your solution is to do it again, brilliant...

As for the possibility of Iran actually Nuking the Untied states, or anyone for that matter, do you honestly think anyone is stupid enough to do that? Ignoring the quite distinct possiblity that the Iranian nukes would be destroyed by Patriot missiles, Iran would be either the target of mass amounts of tactical weapons (unlikely but possible), or it would be immidiatly taken over and the entire Iranian government would be removed to be replaced by a UN government. Iran is fully aware of this and is not going to nuke anyone, it's simply not worth it. Nukes are merely used for threatening.

And this time we will have international support, what makes you think that? Even Britain doesn't fully support invading again. You need to step back for a moment and weigh the consequences a bit. Since you obviously dont care about the lives of our military or about morals, or about attacking a nation simply because you dont like it, at least look at it economically. It would cost us a lot of money (and yes, soldiers do cost a lot ofmoney to train and equip) and we would gain very little in return. Yep, going to war with Iran seems like a great idea...

You stupid fuck. Such a loser you are. Israel would not dare nuke Iran because if they do, and Iran has nukes, Israel is detsroyed in a single attack. Why you say fucktard? Well because Israel is an ugly patch of land so small that one nuke would virtualy wipe them out!

Fucking stupid americans...you suck dick and better yet...you suck plain and simple. Your world reign and terror will be over soon though. Wtach out for new superpower China to scare the shit out of your ugly cowboy pants mofo!

I like you. You're silly. :)

I'm gonna miss you.

Yeah whatever.

I have one last thing to say.

If the american army was ever in a fair fight with the Iranian Army, i.e., without its superior military power, i.e, only man on man with simple guns, American Army would get fucked and destroyed in a millisecond.

The simple fact is that the american soldiers are the worst, the worst one on one fighters. They suck cock.

Plus, the american nation has never had to fight for survival or in a wide scale attack on its sovereignty or existence...Iran has faced it for a long time.

Iran is battle-hardened.

Au revoir fair board. All you American hawks can really suck it!

Yeah whatever.

I have one last thing to say.

If the american army was ever in a fait fight woth the Iranian Army, i.e., without its superior military power, i.e, only man on man with simple guns, American Army would get fucked ans destroyed in a millisecond.

The simple fact is that the american soldiers are the worst, the worst one on one fighters. They suck cock.

Plus, the american nation has never had to fight for survival or in a wide scale attack on its sovereignty or existence...Iran has faced it for a long time.

Iran is battle-hardened.

Au revoir fair board. All you American hawks can really suck it!

Let me get this straight, Iranian soldiers are better than American soldiers because for eleven years they, despite possessing all the modern conveniences of a modern army, engaged in a conflict that to most experts looked more like WWI than a modern war? Right....

When you keep in mind the fact that the Iranian army had a difficult time beating Saddam's army and Saddam's army sucked more cock than your homophobic projections could possibly imagine, I find that hard to believe. America's army, man-for-man may not be the best of the Western powers, but it's still better than any army in the Middle East that doesn't fly a flag bearing a blue star-of-david.

And, in case you hadn't noticed, that was over a decade ago. Our army has battle-hardened men whose expirience is much more recent and who, despite not being able to use the ideas of combined arms to their fullest, still kick much ass.

And, no, I'm not a hawk.

War is an excellent answer. If you think you can talk your way out of dealing with an insane leader, you are just as insane. War is not only an options, but absolutely inevitable. Maybe it's not inevitable with Iran, or Korea, or China. Maybe not at this time, but it WILL happen, to stop it we must first change human nature, which we can't.
Those of you who want war to go away, are believing in a perfect world. Go ahead, believe it. Disarm your own people, disband the military, and watch how quickly someone smarter than you will come in, stomp your head in, rape your wife (or husband), take your children as slaves, and take whatever things you have.
Don't think is HAS to be that way? You're right. Think it wouldn't be that way? You're nuts. There is ALWAYS someone who is willing to do violience to achive what they want. The only way to SURVIVE is to be wiling to violence to stop them.
I am SO tired of all of the kissy kissy pansies:fluffle: who are willing to sacrifice what I have placed my life on the line defending, and what some of my friends died trying to protect. Did we kill and die for Freedom? I don't know. I know I fought for MY COUNTRY. To protect it, and everyone in it(including the afore mentioned kissy kissy pansies:fluffle: )
Believe me when I tell you, if Iran could nuke US and get away with it, there would be no debate, they'd do it. Just because they hate us. Just because they can. They don't NEED a reason. They'll make one up. They don't care about you and your kissy kissy reasons for not killing them, they'll kill you and take what they want. Maybe even enjoy it, if no one hurts them too.
Stop living in a fantasy and WAKE UP. The world isn't nice. Just because you grew up in some middle or upper class neighborhood in a 1st world country and everyone was taught to share and be good, doesn't mean that even half the rest of the world did. Rest assured that they learned the real lesson violence and how to use it.
I'm all for nuking the ever living CRAP out of all of these guys. Are they crazy? Definitely. Am I? Possibly ;) Is everyone else? I'd bet on it.
Oh, and my post in no way reflects the opinion of th US Army, or anyone else for that matter. It is just MY opinion, bitter and jaded as it is.

Yeah whatever.

I have one last thing to say.

If the american army was ever in a fair fight with the Iranian Army, i.e., without its superior military power, i.e, only man on man with simple guns, American Army would get fucked and destroyed in a millisecond.

The simple fact is that the american soldiers are the worst, the worst one on one fighters. They suck cock.

Plus, the american nation has never had to fight for survival or in a wide scale attack on its sovereignty or existence...Iran has faced it for a long time.

Iran is battle-hardened.

Au revoir fair board. All you American hawks can really suck it!

What about the war for independence and the war of 1812?

Doesnt matter even if you are right b/c that will never happen...

and the only reason you can say that is because they're here protecting your ass...Dont knock people whom have sworn their lives to protect you.

<snip>
Well at least there aren't any :mp5: :sniper: :gundge: smilies in the post.

Well, it did convince the emperor to surrender before the U.S. could launch an invasion force that, assuming you are indeed Japanese, challenges your very existence today.



Japan was militarly defeated before the bombs, they were not needed.

Japan was militarly defeated before the bombs, they were not needed.

We know that, Hirohito's advisors didn't. Or they did and willfully ignored it. They all wanted to go down fighting and to hell with the rest of Japan.

Japan was militarly defeated before the bombs, they were not needed.
though they were training its citizens, women and children included, how to fight hand to hand combat? Wooden sticks are nothing against flamethrowers and M-60s or whatever they used back then, but it shows the mentality was still there. Regardless, the U.S. would have invaded, resulting in a much higher casualty count, and many more innocent civilians would have been killed as well.

What about the war for independence and the war of 1812?

and the only reason you can say that is because they're here protecting your ass...Dont knock people whom have sworn their lives to protect you.who is protecting who?

Yes we drew up plans to invade years ago. Even pretended to be tourists and stole road maps from gas stations.



Hahahaha, your a funny guy. You do sound pretty tough going on how it's not okay for Iran to have atomic capability. Explain to me how it is unacceptable for Iran to have nuclear weapons? Can't they act up? Many other nations do it all the time. In fact one nation acted up just recently and there has been no military action against them even after the brutal deaths of 100s of civilians in order to get one or two of the enemy.

there isn't anything i love more than people who make up statistics.

though they were training its citizens, women and children included, how to fight hand to hand combat? Wooden sticks are nothing against flamethrowers and M-60s or whatever they used back then, but it shows the mentality was still there. Regardless, the U.S. would have invaded, resulting in a much higher casualty count, and many more innocent civilians would have been killed as well.



~~~DWIGHT EISENHOWER
"...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.

"During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."

- Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380

In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson:

"...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

- Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63



Esienhower was right.

though they were training its citizens, women and children included, how to fight hand to hand combat? Wooden sticks are nothing against flamethrowers and M-60s or whatever they used back then, but it shows the mentality was still there. Regardless, the U.S. would have invaded, resulting in a much higher casualty count, and many more innocent civilians would have been killed as well.

Flamethrowers, M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, M2 Automatic Carbines, M1A1 "Thompson" SMGs, M3 "Grease Gun" SMGs, M1911A1 pistols, M1918A1(?) Browning Automatic Rifles, M1917 Browning Light Machine Guns, &c. But, no, stick aren't very good against those. It still woulda been very bloody for us, as the Koreans and Chinese proved using human wave attacks six and seven years later.

Esienhower was right.

Yeah, because our use of napalm was much more destructive (and horrifying).

And keep in mind the man saying it used his religion much that same as ours did and paid the CIA to overthrow the democratic government of Iran and (I believe), two others.

Esienhower was right.
they offered to surrender on conditions...we would only accept unconditional surrender.

they offered to surrender on conditions...we would only accept unconditional surrender.

They still got to decide one condition, though.

"...the Japanese were prepared to negotiate all the way from February 1945...up to and before the time the atomic bombs were dropped; ...if such leads had been followed up, there would have been no occasion to drop the [atomic] bombs."

- quoted by Barton Bernstein in Philip Nobile, ed., Judgment at the Smithsonian, pg. 142




Japan was ready to surrender, America owes Japan an apology for what it did to us.

I know they are because the media told me, our media is excellent and is almost never wrong. We to train them to keep freedom. And if the Romans can have an empire for 100's of years, why cant we have one for 1000's? We are better than the Roman empire anyway.
Jesus... *can't stop LMAO*

No need to be mean, Sean Hannity is a great man and a better journalist. I get all my news from him and Bill O'Reilly because they are fair and balanced. In what am I a "caricature"?
*dies from extreme non-stop laughter*

Can somebody tell me that UN abassadorship is a puppet.

Japan was ready to surrender, America owes Japan an apology for what it did to us.

The day Japan apologizes for what it did to the Chinese, the Filipinos, &c., we might give one to Japan.

What are talking about, Iran is threat now! if we wait ten years, we will be dead.

10 years? Bah! The World is destroyed in 6 years!! 2012 is the end of the World baby!!!


Seriously though, I support taking out Iran's nuclear sites, but as for regime change? I think that is gonna come from within.

Japan was ready to surrender, America owes Japan an apology for what it did to us.

Your Emperor and government may have been, but your military? Not a chance in hell. The two nuclear bombs saved far more lives then they took.

Your Emperor and government may have been, but your military? Not a chance in hell. The two nuclear bombs saved far more lives then they took.



The military acts upon government orders, they would have stopped if Hirohito said to. It was genocide.

The military acts upon government orders, they would have stopped if Hirohito said to. It was genocide.

You do realize that your military attempted a coup against the government? Almost succeeded too, this was after the two nukes had been dropped.

The military acts upon government orders, they would have stopped if Hirohito said to. It was genocide.

There was a lot of racism on both sides, don't forget that. And racism in and of itself is not a cause to proclaim genocide. Or do you believe that the Japanese would not have used a nuclear weapon on San Fransisco or LA or Melbourne or Sydney, had the tables been reversed?

You do realize that your military attempted a coup against the government? Almost succeeded too, this was after the two nukes had been dropped.



The point was the military didn't have the power to continue if the government had gave up.

Jesus... now we're arguing about that shit that happen 60 years ago.

There was a lot of racism on both sides, don't forget that. And racism in and of itself is not a cause to proclaim genocide. Or do you believe that the Japanese would not have used a nuclear weapon on San Fransisco or LA or Melbourne or Sydney, had the tables been reversed?



I don't believe we would have done that, we just would have invaded and forced annexed the USA.

The point was the military didn't have the power to continue if the government had gave up.

The military was basicly in control of Japan. They would have continued till the last man, woman, and child died for Japan.

I don't believe we would have done that, we just would have invaded and forced annexed the USA.

HAHAHA........HAHAHAHAHA

Ok I'm done.

Jesus... now we're arguing about that shit that happen 60 years ago.



My grandparents still remember the bombings, it is still fresh to alot of people.

I don't believe we would have done that, we just would have invaded and forced annexed the USA.

Then I think that there would be a red flag flying over the Japanese Diet. A diet dominated by the Communist party.

HAHAHA........HAHAHAHAHA

Ok I'm done.




Hirohito was an imperialist, he wanted to rule the world at the time. Never said the man had any sense.

My grandparents still remember the bombings, it is still fresh to alot of people.

And what the Japanese did to the Filipinos and the Chinese is still fresh in their memories.

Then I think that there would be a red flag flying over the Japanese Diet. A diet dominated by the Communist party.

If my memory of history is correct, Japan came very close to becoming North and South Japan.

Ah, wouldn't that have been fun?

Then I think that there would be a red flag flying over the Japanese Diet. A diet dominated by the Communist party.



How so? Japan and the Soviet Union had a neutraity pact, they broke it but if Japan was winning I doubt they would have.

If my memory of history is correct, Japan came very close to becoming North and South Japan.

Ah, wouldn't that have been fun?



Are you racist?

How so? Japan and the Soviet Union had a neutraity pact, they broke it but if Japan was winning I doubt they would have.

But you weren't winning, you weren't winning since 1942.

My grandparents still remember the bombings, it is still fresh to alot of people.
There's no question that the bomb's use on innocent civilians was an atrocity, but what other option was there? An invasion would have been unavoidable if not for the war. Both sides were too stubborn to agree on surrendering before hand, and besides, Truman warned that if they did not accept the unconditional surrender, they would face "swift and utter defeat." They did not comply...nor did they after we dropped the first one.

Are you racist?

Where did that come from?

I was merely stating that if a US invasion has occured, Russia was preparing to invade the Northern part of Japan.

Thus, resulting in North and South Japan.

The day Japan apologizes for what it did to the Chinese, the Filipinos, &c., we might give one to Japan.
Add Australia to that list. The horrors of Changi prison and the Burma Railway come to mind...vivdly.

How so? Japan and the Soviet Union had a neutraity pact, they broke it but if Japan was winning I doubt they would have.

The Soviet Union's army, linking up with the Nationalist Chinese in Free China and in co-operation with the Communist Chinese and Koreans in Korea and Occupied Korea would have easily defeated Japan. In the last month of the war, Japanese units in Manchuria, untouched by the war with the United States were completely annihilated by the Red Army.

Are you racist?

I really hope most people from Japan aren't like you.

Add Australia to that list. The horrors of Changi prison and the Burma Railway come to mind...vivdly.

They haven't appologized to us, either. (Bataan Death March, Wake Island, various POW Camp atrocities, &c.)

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?

Fascist.

They haven't appologized to us, either. (Bataan Death March, Wake Island, various POW Camp atrocities, &c.)

Plus they have the Yasukuni Shrine, I really hate that place. How can anyone like a place that turns war criminals into heroes?

Fascist.

Communist

Look! I can do it too!

My grandparents still remember the bombings, it is still fresh to alot of people.Yeah, it pretty sad that a chilly tension between Japan and other asian countries, especially China and the Koreas still exist 60 years later. I wonder when PM Koizumi stop visiting that controversial shrine.

Some Chinese, including the younger generations, still won't let go their anger about what Japan did 60 years ago. Some of them don't like the Japanese.

I am Chinese myself and believe me, I don't hate the Japanese. They're pretty cool people. ;)

Are you racist?
No, he's just some crazy facist-minded person. Ignore him.

I really hope most people from Japan aren't like you.



In thinking the atomic bombs were not needed and still feeling a bit upset over it? Most are. Why does death humor you?

Plus they have the Yasukuni Shrine, I really hate that place. How can anyone like a place that turns war criminals into heroes?

It's supposed to be a shrine dedicated to all Japanese soldiers who have died in the line of duty. War criminals and war heroes alike. I think that they should open it up to all soldiers who fall in the line of duty, regardless of nationality.

In thinking the atomic bombs were not needed and still feeling a bit upset over it? Most are, I just hope most people are not racist psychopathic killers like you. Why does death humor you?
I think it's your blinding nationalism we're afraid of. The same thing a large portion of Americans suffer from. Also, try not to flame too much.

In thinking the atomic bombs were not needed and still feeling a bit upset over it? Most are, I just hope most people are not racist psychopathic killers like you. Why does death humor you?

Ok......

Prove that I am racist, psychopathic, and a killer.

Plus they have the Yasukuni Shrine, I really hate that place. How can anyone like a place that turns war criminals into heroes?
Yeah, I hate that place too. I wish someday Japan will vanish this place of evil.

Japan was ready to surrender, America owes Japan an apology for what it did to us.

You'll get that right after we get an apology for Pearl Harbor and Bataan and the Chinese get an apology for Nanking.

Meaning never.

No, he's just some crazy facist-minded person

And your just some crazy BC person.

ONTARIO RULES CANADA!

This is such a Jesussaves wannabe, but on the US-fanaticism spectrum.
Yeah got to be parody

You'll get that right after we get an apology for Pearl Harbor and Bataan and the Chinese get an apology for Nanking.

Meaning never.

We don't need one for Pearl, but the other stuff would be great.

If Germany can, so can Japan.

You'll get that right after we get an apology for Pearl Harbor and Bataan and the Chinese get an apology for Nanking.

Meaning never.

It's not the Japanese peoples' fault that their consulate in Washington was too damned slow at decoding their declaration of war, so I don't think they need to appologize for Pearl Harbor. That and Pearl was a military target, struck in the middle of the day, not a civilian target.

In thinking the atomic bombs were not needed and still feeling a bit upset over it? Most are, I just hope most people are not racist psychopathic killers like you. Why does death humor you?Ignore the troll.

I think it's your blinding nationalism we're afraid of. The same thing a large portion of Americans suffer from. Also, try not to flame too much.



I live in the USA and am rather happy here, I am far from a nationalist. How does thinking Hiroshima was unjustified make me a blind nationalist?

I live in the USA and am rather happy here, I am far from a nationalist. How does thinking Hiroshima was unjustified make me a blind nationalist?

I think he/she assumes that you're a Japanese nationalist.

And your just some crazy BC person.
How I'm I crazy? eh?

I think he/she assumes that you're a Japanese nationalist.



I know that. Thats why I asked.

This is like a really bad dream. I have had this conversation about Iran one to many times on this forum. Ah... well....:mp5:

Yeah, I hate that place too. I wish someday Japan will vanish this place of evil.
Although, as I understand it, it is just a shrine for the war-dead. It's not particularly made to honour war criminals, it just so happens that a few names on the lists there shouldn't be.
Problem is of course that it would be rather disrespectful to take any names off those lists, but I suspect that Japan won't have a choice as the balance of economic power shifts in Asia, and they'll have to maintain good relations.

I live in the USA and am rather happy here, I am far from a nationalist. How does thinking Hiroshima was unjustified make me a blind nationalist?Very few Japanese people are very imperialistic these days. And when I'm talking about "very few", I mean these crazy-minded old geezers.

How I'm I crazy? eh?

Well tell me which riding you are from in BC.

Yeah, I hate that place too. I wish someday Japan will vanish this place of evil.


you know the meaning of Yasukuni is "peaceful country"


A big political contravercy surrounds the Yasukuni Shrine because since 1978, fourteen class A war criminals are among the 2.5 million people enshrined at Yasukuni. Furthermore, the visits by several Japanese prime ministers to the shrine since 1975 have been causing concerns regarding a violation of the principle of separation of church and state.

Its been around since 1869, I say just remove the class A war criminals, it looks bad.

Well tell me which riding you are from in BC.
Find Prince Rupert on this map:

http://www.elections.ca/enr/help/map_39ge.pdf

Hint: Orange coloured region

Although, as I understand it, it is just a shrine for the war-dead. It's not particularly made to honour war criminals, it just so happens that a few names on the lists there shouldn't be.
Problem is of course that it would be rather disrespectful to take any names off those lists, but I suspect that Japan won't have a choice as the balance of economic power shifts in Asia, and they'll have to maintain good relations.

Getting rid of the Yasukuni Shrine because of a couple of the names on it would be like us getting rid of the Vietnam War Memorial because some of the names on it are those of men who killed Vietnamese civilians and burned Vietnamese villages, if the VWM had religious, as well as national, importance.

Very few Japanese people are very imperialistic these days. And when I'm talking about "very few", I mean these crazy-minded old geezers.



Imperialistic no, Nationalistic yes. A nice form of that is still alive.

Its been around since 1869, I say just remove the class A war criminals, it looks bad.

I'm not horribly familiar with Shinto tradition, but wouldn't it be a little difficult to "de-kami-ize" someone?

Find Prince Rupert on this map:

http://www.elections.ca/enr/help/map_39ge.pdf

Hint: Orange coloured region

Orange? Yea, crazy person.

I'm not horribly familiar with Shinto tradition, but wouldn't it be a little difficult to "de-kami-ize" someone?




Attempts to remove the war criminals from the Yasukuni Shrine have failed due to the shrine's refusal. Other discussions to solve the problem center around plans to create a currently non-existent alternative to the Yasukuni Shrine for commemorating and worshipping Japan's war dead.


The shrine won't allow it.

Orange? Yea, crazy person.Well, call me communist if you like. But I'm not a kind of person who believe earth is 6000 years old or smuggle beers and Mercedes across the border.

Well, call me communist if you like. But I'm not a kind of person who believe earth is 6000 years old.

Neither am I, nor do I think you are communist.

What, pray tell, does anything about Japan have to do with Iran? Why have we wander so far off post?! There is another thread for the Japan discussion!
I want to talk about beating the ever love shit out of Iran! :gundge: Not about how we ALREADY beat the ever loving shit out of Japan, and beat them so badly we turned a proud and powerful warrior people in to a bunch of passifist kissy kissy pansies:fluffle: !!!

:fluffle: What, pray tell, does anything about Japan have to do with Iran? Why have we wander so far off post?! There is another thread for the Japan discussion!
I want to talk about beating the ever love shit out of Iran! :gundge: Not about how we ALREADY beat the ever loving shit out of Japan, and beat them so badly we turned a proud and powerful warrior people in to a bunch of passifist kissy kissy pansies:fluffle: !!!

If A is B and B is C, then the Japan just nuked Tehran!

What, pray tell, does anything about Japan have to do with Iran? Why have we wander so far off post?! There is another thread for the Japan discussion!
I want to talk about beating the ever love shit out of Iran! :gundge: Not about how we ALREADY beat the ever loving shit out of Japan, and beat them so badly we turned a proud and powerful warrior people in to a bunch of passifist kissy kissy pansies:fluffle: !!!

And if it wasn't for the two bombs, we would never have had Godzilla!

What, pray tell, does anything about Japan have to do with Iran? Why have we wander so far off post?! There is another thread for the Japan discussion!
I want to talk about beating the ever love shit out of Iran! :gundge: Not about how we ALREADY beat the ever loving shit out of Japan, and beat them so badly we turned a proud and powerful warrior people in to a bunch of passifist kissy kissy pansies:fluffle: !!!



I had a flame for this, but I won't say it.:mad:

What, pray tell, does anything about Japan have to do with Iran? Why have we wander so far off post?! There is another thread for the Japan discussion!
I want to talk about beating the ever love shit out of Iran! :gundge: Not about how we ALREADY beat the ever loving shit out of Japan, and beat them so badly we turned a proud and powerful warrior people in to a bunch of passifist kissy kissy pansies:fluffle: !!!Spam troll, back to your cage!

I had a flame for this, but I won't say it.:mad:

Sure you can.

Sure you can.


Sorry, Nope. :)

I had a flame for this, but I won't say it.:mad:

I fully support your flaming of the flame-bait and, furthermore, if the mods come after you, I'll take the fall for it (if I can).

I fully support your flaming of the flame-bait and, furthermore, if the mods come after you, I'll take the fall for it (if I can).

The mods are powerless figure heads.

Sure you can.Novoga, why do you attack Kishijoten?

Novoga, why do you attack Kishijoten?

I never have, why do you accuse me?

The mods are powerless figure heads.I think mods should take a look at this.

The mods are powerless figure heads.

Admins, mods... poe-tay-toe, poh-tah-toe.

Careful about being so quick to wage war. You of all people likely don't have near the amount of information you'd need to make war and when people have waged war on those premises, millions have died needlessly. Oh how easy it is to send young people to die when it's not your skin that's on the line.

War is a last resort... that should always be remembered.

Iran is acting up and needs to be dealt with(harshly in my opinion). They want nukes and this is unacceptable. This time we will have international support so we will need a smaller US force and if all else fails there's the draft. I think we should go in, whos with me?

Iran, Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia: if they want to blow themselves up, fine. Let them. It's past high time for the United States to start worrying about its own house and things like "gee, why is my job in India" and "gee, how come everything is suddenly made in China". Those people over there have been slugging it out since the beginning of time and if they want to continue, I say let them. For the past six or seven administrations, American presidents have just tacitly kow-towed to the whims of AIPAC and the Israeli government. Enough already. We don't owe them (although this country gives Israel between $2 and $5 billion per anum, how much more do they need?): historically, Europe, and Germany in particular do. And if people choose to live there, that is the risk (being wiped off the map by all of you neighbors who just happen to be mostly Muslim Arabs, except maybe the Lebanese) they assume.

And as for war with Iran, it won't be some cakewalk because like Kim Jung-Il in North Korea, those people there are "ready" for an invasion. It's too bad they control a good deal of the world's oil because they can also pull a "1973" all over again and our lives will be just a wee bit more difficult.

How come no one ever talks about our "ally" Saudi Arabia that was home to 18 (or so) of the 19 9/11 hijackers? Seems like that place needs a good invadin'.

That's not pessimism, that's reality.

I fully support your flaming of the flame-bait and, furthermore, if the mods come after you, I'll take the fall for it (if I can).



Um, Thanks. But I think I will go hide in the corner on this, the mods are gonna come after somebody here and I'd rather it not be me.:)

Um, Thanks. But I think I will go hide in the corner on this, the mods are gonna come after somebody here and I'd rather it not be me.:)

Coward! Where's your warrior spirit! *Waves rubber sword menacingly* ;)

Coward! Where's your warrior spirit! *Waves rubber sword menacingly* ;)



The americans said I can't have one. :( ;)

The americans said I can't have one. :( ;)

Fine. Where's your police-who-fly-F-15s spirit? :p

Fine. Where's your police-who-fly-F-15s spirit? :p



My F15 got shootdown over Pearl Harbor.:p

My F15 got shootdown over Pearl Harbor.:p

o0;

Wait... are you telling me the Navy did it's job for once?

And your just some crazy BC person.

ONTARIO RULES CANADA!

Except for the fact that the new government's power base is not Ontario, it's, oh look, BC and Alberta. And Saskatchewan, cos SK is cool. :)

But that's off topic.

Except for the fact that the new government's power base is not Ontario, it's, oh look, BC and Alberta. And Saskatchewan, cos SK is cool. :)

But that's off topic.

I'm not off topic. YOU'RE off topic. THEY'RE off topic! This whole court room is off topic, in fact the entire thread is off topic!!

...

Sorry about that, I'll go back to singing now... :fluffle:

ORDER! There will be no more mention of being "off topic", or I will hold you in contempt, Mr. McCoy!

Nuclear proliferation facilitates peaceful negotiation.


...Until somebody fires.

We need a bumper sticker that says that!

Perhaps...

Yeah this whole thread has gotten off topic. Back on topic(if thats possible), Going to war with Iran is hasty. You can't invade a nation everytime they bat an eyelash, and besides I don't think Iran has done anything to justify it. Sanctions would be something I would support, and invasion would create more terrorists and make us more hated then we already are.