NationStates Jolt Archive

Recently someone i sorta knew layed down on some train tracks.
This is to find out your opinion on Suicide and whether it is Ok for seriously depressed individuals, Ok for anyone who wants it or downright stupid.
Poll Attached.
Also, Cardinal Sin is part of this Post for debate.

Sorry, poll not attached. Could everyone please just state their opinion.

Suicides should receive counsilling, but if adamant in their ideal and have no major mental illness should be allowed to proceed.

You can add a poll. Click on Thread Tools -> Add a Poll.

I'm not against suicide but I still believe people should expend all of their options first. Not to mention they should consider what they're going to do to the people around them.

Suicide, save in cases of extreme physical pain or threat of imminent death is never acceptable.

I am usually very angry at suicides and don't feel sorry or sad for the person who committed suicide but rather the people hurt by their selfish act.

Everyone has problems and they deal with them every day...killing yourself is nothing more than pure selfishness and a willingness to sacrifice the feelings of everyone around you so you don't have to seek help or deal with your problems. It's the "easy" way out

Suicide is the most selfish action of all, because you are willing to cause incredible grief to everyone around you just to avoid dealing with problems or being forced to sacrifice your pride and seek help.

I think in many cases suicide is somewhat 'selfish', and definitely not the best option as a response to problems. I don't think anyone should make the decision to kill themselves if they're depressed. They should get help about the depression, and if they still want to commit suicide afterward I can't see there as much else to do about it. If they really want to die that much I'm not sure if it would be the best thing to stop them.

I don't think suicide is the best option one has. You can always talk out your problems or go seek help from others. But I do think that you should be able to commit suicide if you want to. Since you own your body you can do what you want with it including killing it.

Suicide, save in cases of extreme physical pain or threat of imminent death is never acceptable.

I am usually very angry at suicides and don't feel sorry or sad for the person who committed suicide but rather the people hurt by their selfish act.

Everyone has problems and they deal with them every day...killing yourself is nothing more than pure selfishness and a willingness to sacrifice the feelings of everyone around you so you don't have to seek help or deal with your problems. It's the "easy" way out

Suicide is the most selfish action of all, because you are willing to cause incredible grief to everyone around you just to avoid dealing with problems or being forced to sacrifice your pride and seek help.
^ What he said. It's selfish, and it's a cowards way out. Life sucks sometimes, get a damn helmet and move on!

This is to find out your opinion on Suicide and whether it is Ok for seriously depressed individuals, Ok for anyone who wants it or downright stupid.

My basic view is quite simple: it is *your* life. If you wish to end it, that is your right. This also holds in cases where there is no suffering involved; just no more desire to live on. I do not see "staying alive" as a holy plight.

However, to prevent rash decisions (My girl dumped me ! Life has no meaning anymore !) as well as traumatising other people (e.g. the trainconductor of the train that runs over you) I think it should be done through euthanasia with help from doctors - after having declared your deathwish firmly over a prolonged period of time (or put it in writing beforehand in case of things like persistent vegatative states or dementia).

I think suicide is a very selfish option. I do think, however, that the problem surounding suicide is that the solution is generally the the action that the person feels least able to do.

But in all honesty I think some people commit suicide for the most stupid reasons. There are probably millions of people on this planet who live in worse conditions than that person, yet carry on living. For instance. (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1697384,00.html) And most of the time when people believe that no one cares about them is exactly that - just a belief, and not the actual case.

Though I certainly believe there is a case for euthanasia.

Suicide, save in cases of extreme physical pain or threat of imminent death is never acceptable.
So you're a religious leader, or possibly God? I doubt anybody else is in a position to make statements like that.

I am usually very angry at suicides and don't feel sorry or sad for the person who committed suicide but rather the people hurt by their selfish act.
Almost a fair point.

Everyone has problems and they deal with them every day...killing yourself is nothing more than pure selfishness and a willingness to sacrifice the feelings of everyone around you so you don't have to seek help or deal with your problems. It's the "easy" way out

Suicide is the most selfish action of all, because you are willing to cause incredible grief to everyone around you just to avoid dealing with problems or being forced to sacrifice your pride and seek help.
Because it has been proven time and again that all those committing suicide have never even considered trying to find another solution to their problems...

Sorry, poll not attached. Could everyone please just state their opinion.

Suicides should receive counsilling, but if adamant in their ideal and have no major mental illness should be allowed to proceed.

Studies have shown that over 90% of people who die from suicide have one or more psychiatric disorders at the time of their suicide.

Suicide in very limited circumstances, such as terminal painful illnesss, can be a rational choice. Otherwise, it is almost always a symptom of mental illness.

EDIT: While I am clearly not saying "suicide is OK," I find it troubling that so many like to heap blame upon suicides. How about a little compassion for someone that subcummed to a major mental illnesss? They should be pitied.

^ What he said. It's selfish, and it's a cowards way out. Life sucks sometimes, get a damn helmet and move on!

My, what a pithy summary of Camus's The Myth of Sisyphus. :D

I couldn't commit suicide if my life depended in it!

Suicide in very limited circumstances, such as terminal painful illnesss, can be a rational choice. Otherwise, it is almost always a symptom of mental illness.

Just to define parameters:
Suppose I wish to save someone elses life by donating my heart. Or by throwing myself on that grenade before it explodes. Or even by letting myself be crucified for humanities sins.
Do you consider this rational ? (to others: do you consider this selfish/cowardly ?)

Suppose I am 95. I have led a fruitful and joyous life; am still in a pretty good condition and could in theory have at least 10 more years according to the doctors. I however think 95 is a pretty age, that I have done everything I wanted to do and would like to metaphorically put the chairs on the table and turn of the lights. Am I mentally ill?

Suicide is OK if you are near the end of your life.

But if you have plenty natural life remaining, and especially if you have only begun to live it, as in the case of most suicides, then it is really stupid and selfish. Firstly, because whatever the level of depression, it is the ultimate weak, quitters' way out. One may as well tell them, you failed, you couldn't cut it and you gave up. Secondly because it affects a whole lot of other people in ways the individual in question will never see.

Suicide, save in cases of extreme physical pain or threat of imminent death is never acceptable.

I am usually very angry at suicides and don't feel sorry or sad for the person who committed suicide but rather the people hurt by their selfish act.



I get angry every time someone says that a suicide is selfish. It's clear that anyone who think it's a selfish act know absolutely nothing about e.g. depression

I knew a guy that used to be in my class that commited suicide, he'd really really thought about it though- had the idea apparently for several years already and was waiting till he turned 18, he did it the day after christmas (in holland that day is still considered christmas) early in the morning... No one expected it from our class...

Suicide, provided that it is done in privacy and without involving other people (so, ODing, hanging, slitting wrists), is cool in my book. However, leaping in front of a train, suicide by cop, leaping off a building etc. are unacceptable as they cause problems to other people.

Suicide, provided that it is done in privacy and without involving other people (so, ODing, hanging, slitting wrists), is cool in my book. However, leaping in front of a train, suicide by cop, leaping off a building etc. are unacceptable as they cause problems to other people.
Isn't it pretty tricky to kill yourself by slitting your wrists?

Isn't it pretty tricky to kill yourself by slitting your wrists?

It is. (I know people that failed).

They make it seem easy on TV and in movies.

Isn't it pretty tricky to kill yourself by slitting your wrists?
It is pretty easy to screw up and gives people more time to reconsider (which would lower the success rate) compared to blasting your brains across the wall or taking a long drop with a short rope.

I get angry every time someone says that a suicide is selfish. It's clear that anyone who think it's a selfish act know absolutely nothing about e.g. depressionDon't be so sure about that. I have a friend who thinks suicide is selfish and her dad is a manic depressive and she's works as a child play thearpist in war zones. I think it's safe to say she knows a fair bit about depression and other mental disorders.

Just because your depressed doesn't make your suicide any less selfish.

Just because your depressed doesn't make your suicide any less selfish.

*points back to his earlier post*
And a suicide committed because you believe it helps others ? Like Jesus supposedly did ?

It is. (I know people that failed).

They make it seem easy on TV and in movies.
You're a lot more likely to wake up with your fingers no longer working properly than die, I'm told.

*points back to his earlier post*
And a suicide committed because you believe it helps others ? Like Jesus supposedly did ?
If Christ was around today he'd most likely be sitting in a padded cell writing the sermon on the mount with a crayon because they don't trust him with anything sharp, to tell the truth.

*points back to his earlier post*
And a suicide committed because you believe it helps others ? Like Jesus supposedly did ?Jesus didn't commit suicide par se... He didn't nail his own hands to cross... perhaps because of the technical impossibilty. On the other hand I could just dismiss Jesus as having megalomania. As for suicide in attempt to save another person's life. Well it's not quite in the same category.

As for donating your heart. I can only imagine a person doing that if they truely loved someone, and if that love was mutual then the offer would be refused.

As for jumping on a grenade. Well it's obviously not a selfish act for those immeditately around you. But most suicides have a lot more thought put into them. Whereas, jumping on a grenade is a split-second reaction. So they're in a slightly different category.

Don't be so sure about that. I have a friend who thinks suicide is selfish and her dad is a manic depressive and she's works as a child play thearpist in war zones. I think it's safe to say she knows a fair bit about depression and other mental disorders.

Just because your depressed doesn't make your suicide any less selfish.

Lung cancer must also be a selfish way to die.

Suicide, save in cases of extreme physical pain or threat of imminent death is never acceptable.

I am usually very angry at suicides and don't feel sorry or sad for the person who committed suicide but rather the people hurt by their selfish act.

Everyone has problems and they deal with them every day...killing yourself is nothing more than pure selfishness and a willingness to sacrifice the feelings of everyone around you so you don't have to seek help or deal with your problems. It's the "easy" way out

Suicide is the most selfish action of all, because you are willing to cause incredible grief to everyone around you just to avoid dealing with problems or being forced to sacrifice your pride and seek help.
You, Im guessing have never felt that pain and hopelessness that leads to suicidial toughts. When you get that low, your not thinking clearly and the person is not selfish, they just want the pain to stop(take it from someone thats been there.)

Haha - this thread made me think of that South Park episode when David Blaine gets everyone to go ot DC to commit mass suicide by drowning themselves in the reflecting pool. They have to hold their heads under about a foot of water... Cartman couldn't do it... so funny.

And yes, that was a defense mechanism to a very serious question, I am that kind of person. Suicide is sad, from personal experience, it leaves you very angry at the person who does it... at least I was very angry... From my perspective it was a very self-absorbed act. I was even angrier at myself for not seeing it coming. However, I can't put myself in that person's shoes without going through what she did, so I really don't know what it was like, I just wish she had told me what was going on. That's why social circles play such a big role in people's lives, so that they feel as though they are part of something bigger- gives them a stake in the lives of others and forces them to consider all the consequences. It is very hard to give a "right answer" to this question because every case is different, just as is every person. Hug your friends. I guess that's all I've got.

You, Im guessing have never felt that pain and hopelessness that leads to suicidial toughts. When you get that low, your not thinking clearly and the person is not selfish, they just want the pain to stop(take it from someone thats been there.)

Exactly. (From someone else that is there regularly).

Unless your friends and loved ones haven't hit their teens yet, they should be more than familiar with the concept of human mortality. When you inevitably die, it's their responsibility to deal, irrespective of whether you top yourself or just get greased crossing the road. You have no obligation to pander to the emotional dependencies of others, should you choose not to.

So, yeah, I think suicide is a viable option. In death, a person experiences neither good nor bad, so, if the bad in someones life outweighs the good to the extent where nothing is likely to ever make up for it, why shouldn't they cut and run?

Lung cancer must also be a selfish way to die.I did make an exception for euthansia. Because if it hurts someone's loved ones to see that person dying slowly and it also hurts that person as well. Well, then the grief of that person dying (which would eventually come) seems completely acceptable.

I think a more potent case for euthansia is dementia though. To live through dementia, gradualy losing your independence... To watch a loved one living through dementia, and then eventually failing to reconise you and even screaming at you and shouting that you've kidnapped them... That's pretty bad.

Suicide as a goal: no
Suicide as a consequence: yes

snip

So, yeah, I think suicide is a viable option. In death, a person experiences neither good nor bad, so, if the bad in someones life outweighs the good to the extent where nothing is likely to ever make up for it, why shouldn't they cut and run?


From my experience you can go from sitting in the back of a police car, handcuffed, on your way to the jail to 6 months later wondering who that person was. I am very glad that I have always had hope, however miniscule the amount, to pull me through. I do pity those who can't find any... when I'm feeling depressed, I try to think of how worse off I could be - I don't walk to the market experiencing regular car bombs and kidnappings, my family isn't starving or dying of aids, and I my health is fairly good. There is always someone else out there who has it worse than you, no matter what you think. If they have a chance to make it out successful in life, then maybe you should find the strength of character to give it your best shot...

I did make an exception for euthansia. Because if it hurts someone's loved ones to see that person dying slowly and it also hurts that person as well. Well, then the grief of that person dying (which would eventually come) seems completely acceptable.

I think a more potent case for euthansia is dementia though. To live through dementia, gradualy losing your independence... To watch a loved one living through dementia, and then eventually failing to reconise you and even screaming at you and shouting that you've kidnapped them... That's pretty bad.

You missed my point. You keep thinking of suicide as a rational choice. Over 90% of the time is a symptom of a disease.

Dying of suicide is a potential consequence of severe depression the same way that dying is a potential consequence of lung cancer.

You, Im guessing have never felt that pain and hopelessness that leads to suicidial toughts. When you get that low, your not thinking clearly and the person is not selfish, they just want the pain to stop(take it from someone thats been there.)I'm sorry, but that hits the mark for selfishness dead on. You want something (the pain) to happen (stop) so bad that you don't care what the consequences to other people are.

And thank you for assumption that I've never been depressed before.

I'm sorry, but that hits the mark for selfishness dead on. You want something (the pain) to happen (stop) so bad that you don't care what the consequences to other people are.

And thank you for assumption that I've never been depressed before.

I don't know if you ever been depressed before or not.

I do hope you recognize the world of difference between having "been depressed" and having clinical depression. (I hope you have never suffered either, but especially the latter.)

There is always someone else out there who has it worse than you, no matter what you think. If they have a chance to make it out successful in life, then maybe you should find the strength of character to give it your best shot...

What difference do other peoples experiences make? And success is highly subjective. Only you can decide if the rewards in your life match the expense of attaining them, and, if they don't, why should you bother?

I'm sorry, but that hits the mark for selfishness dead on. You want something (the pain) to happen (stop) so bad that you don't care what the consequences to other people are.


You ignore the UN ambasadorship's point that one that is clinically depressed is "not thinking clearly."

Mental illness defies your simplistic moral labels.

I get angry every time someone says that a suicide is selfish. It's clear that anyone who think it's a selfish act know absolutely nothing about e.g. depression

There are people who get depressed, and get help. There is absolutely no justifiable reason for you to kill yourself other than an unwillingess to face your problems and get that help. Sometimes, it's psychological and you are literally incapable of getting that help...however, there are other times when you are perfectly capable of thinking rationally and you kill yourself anyway. That is selfishness.

You missed my point. You keep thinking of suicide as a rational choice. Over 90% of the time is a symptom of a disease.

Dying of suicide is a potential consequence of severe depression the same way that dying is a potential consequence of lung cancer.No I don't. I do think, however, that the problem surounding suicide is that the solution is generally the the action that the person feels least able to do.

There are people who get depressed, and get help. There is absolutely no justifiable reason for you to kill yourself other than an unwillingess to face your problems and get that help. Sometimes, it's psychological and you are literally incapable of getting that help...however, there are other times when you are perfectly capable of thinking rationally and you kill yourself anyway. That is selfishness.

meh. Given that the vast majority of the time the former is the case, why do you focus on the latter?

Few perfectly rational people kill themselves. In those few situations, we tend to be talking about terminal illness, etc.

Does it make you feel superior to beat up on the mentally ill?

What difference do other peoples experiences make? And success is highly subjective. Only you can decide if the rewards in your life match the expense of attaining them, and, if they don't, why should you bother?


You're absolutely right that you can only make the decision yourself, but nobody can predict the future. Calculating the expense of attaining 'success' isn't concrete - it isn't a mathematical decision. Lining up the pros and cons of life or death won't get you anywhere.

I guess it all comes down to this: I like sex too much and if I'm dead, I get no sex. :D

You're absolutely right that you can only make the decision yourself, but nobody can predict the future. Calculating the expense of attaining 'success' isn't concrete - it isn't a mathematical decision. Lining up the pros and cons of life or death won't get you anywhere.

I guess it all comes down to this: I like sex too much and if I'm dead, I get no sex. :DHowever, if you're dead you won't know you're not getting any sex...

and if you want to think about something sick and perverted, well you still might get sex once you're dead.

I'm sorry, but that hits the mark for selfishness dead on. You want something (the pain) to happen (stop) so bad that you don't care what the consequences to other people are.

And thank you for assumption that I've never been depressed before.
Actually, more often that not, you think the consequences for others will be good.

All the times I've been close to suicide a large part of that was to save my family and friends from the hurt I believed I was causing them. I couldn't see clearly enough to realise I'd hurt them more if I died and I truly believed they'd be better off without me.

When you get to the point of suicide, that is the only option. No one who hasn't got to that point can truly comprehend that feeling and is in no place to judge whatsoever.

I've never found anyone who truly understands depression and continues to spout the rubbish I hear from so many people about suicide.

I guess it all comes down to this: I like sex too much and if I'm dead, I get no sex. :D

Now, that I'm down with. : )
Myself, I'm just too angry for suicide. There are so many damned people who deserve to die so much more than me that just thinking about them going on to live happy, fulfilled lives while I'm quietly composting makes me furious. Life may frequently be unjust, but I don't have to be complicit in it.

In other words, I care too much to die just yet. If I get nothing else out of life, I'll at least have the satisfaction of conducting myself in the manner that I feel befits a man.

Besides, I have a nice little relationship going right now, and whilst I may not be obliged to watch out for that persons emotional well-being, I have chosen to take that responsibility upon myself.

Ah, but them I won't be able to enjoy it, or know if I'm enjoying it, and what good is that?

Interesting tho- maybe I'll go make a new thread- "If you were dead, would you still want to get some nookie?" Yeah? No? Bad idea?

suicide.. mmm. i can't imagine what it must feel like to want to end one's own life and then "actually" follow through with it. i'm not about to make any judgements on something i don't understand. but i do know that in many of the cases of botched suicides i've come across.. the people were very glad their attempts failed.

Now, that I'm down with. : )
Myself, I'm just too angry for suicide. There are so many damned people who deserve to die so much more than me that just thinking about them going on to live happy, fulfilled lives while I'm quietly composting makes me furious. Life may frequently be unjust, but I don't have to be complicit in it.

In other words, I care too much to die just yet. If I get nothing else out of life, I'll at least have the satisfaction of conducting myself in the manner that I feel befits a man.

Besides, I have a nice little relationship going right now, and whilst I may not be obliged to watch out for that persons emotional well-being, I have chosen to take that responsibility upon myself.


HAHA- good post, good post - there are a lot of shitheads out there. I love nationstates, it makes me feel like I'm back in freshman year of college sitting in the lounge with my hallmates having serious discussions until 3am... good stuff...

Actually, more often that not, you think the consequences for others will be good.

All the times I've been close to suicide a large part of that was to save my family and friends from the hurt I believed I was causing them. I couldn't see clearly enough to realise I'd hurt them more if I died and I truly believed they'd be better off without me.

When you get to the point of suicide, that is the only option. No one who hasn't got to that point can truly comprehend that feeling and is in no place to judge whatsoever.

I've never found anyone who truly understands depression and continues to spout the rubbish I hear from so many people about suicide.That's a very good point. Thank you.

Actually, more often that not, you think the consequences for others will be good.

All the times I've been close to suicide a large part of that was to save my family and friends from the hurt I believed I was causing them. I couldn't see clearly enough to realise I'd hurt them more if I died and I truly believed they'd be better off without me.

When you get to the point of suicide, that is the only option. No one who hasn't got to that point can truly comprehend that feeling and is in no place to judge whatsoever.

I've never found anyone who truly understands depression and continues to spout the rubbish I hear from so many people about suicide.

Amen.

Hopefully some of these people will listen to you.

Actually, more often that not, you think the consequences for others will be good.

All the times I've been close to suicide a large part of that was to save my family and friends from the hurt I believed I was causing them. I couldn't see clearly enough to realise I'd hurt them more if I died and I truly believed they'd be better off without me.

When you get to the point of suicide, that is the only option. No one who hasn't got to that point can truly comprehend that feeling and is in no place to judge whatsoever.

I've never found anyone who truly understands depression and continues to spout the rubbish I hear from so many people about suicide.
So true indeed

This is old, but maybe someone will enjoy the read:
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/suicide.html

I think suicide is one of the hardest things to do. It must take a whole lot of courage(?) to force yourself to jump off a tall building, slit your wrists, shoot yourself in the head...as this is going against our entire nature of self-preservation. I think it's harder than it looks.

I am against it, however. Life has so much to offer that it seems a shame to end it prematurely as well as causing those around you incredible pain. Besides no problem lasts forever. Things always get back on track.

A year ago there was a 25 year-old woman who hung herself. After things had calmed down her parents were busy cleaning up her belongings and came across some unopened letters that had arrived after the girl had killed herself. One of them was a statement from the National Lottery that she had just won over a million pounds. Talk about irony! It goes to show how things can change if you hang in there.

This is old, but maybe someone will enjoy the read:
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/suicide.html
Or, you know, here's a useful link incase there's anyone considering suicide who's reading this:

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

Suicide is one of the things I really can't stand jokes about. I lose all sense of humour. It's too awful a subject and too personally painful.

Vegetarianistica']suicide.. mmm. i can't imagine what it must feel like to want to end one's own life and then "actually" follow through with it. i'm not about to make any judgements on something i don't understand. but i do know that in many of the cases of botched suicides i've come across.. the people were very glad their attempts failed.
Of course. I'm very very glad I'm still alive, despite over a year of wishing I was dead, and I rarely think suicide is the right choice in a situation. I'll always try and convince someone to keep going and to keep hope.

But just because it's wrong in the sense of it not being the best thing to do, I don't think that makes it morally wrong in any way.

I also don't get why people try and explain why suicide is logically a bad choice when it's so obvious that people feeling this way aren't thinking logically due a psychological problem.

Whats the worst thing you can fail at? A suicide!
So make sure if you're gonna do it, do it right.
I think its OK if people feel they need to, though I would strongly encourage tham not to. Exception if they're old and are in alot of pain and are going to die anyways and say goodbye to everyone, then I have no misgivings about it.

[QUOTE=Symbaril]I think suicide is one of the hardest things to do. It must take a whole lot of courage(?) to force yourself to jump off a tall building, slit your wrists, shoot yourself in the head...as this is going against our entire nature of self-preservation. I think it's harder than it looks.
snipQUOTE]


Doesn't necessarily take courage... a good deal of alcohol and too many pain killers have done the trick... and I'm not so sure the person was planning on doing it before they started drinking...

I think suicide is one of the hardest things to do. It must take a whole lot of courage(?) to force yourself to jump off a tall building, slit your wrists, shoot yourself in the head...as this is going against our entire nature of self-preservation. I think it's harder than it looks.
Only cowards commit suicide. Most people who commit suicide are too afraid of dealing with whatever problems they have and suicide is the easy way out.

Only cowards commit suicide. Most people who commit suicide are too afraid of dealing with whatever problems they have and suicide is the easy way out.

Again, utter bullshit from someone with no idea about mental illness.

Over 90% of suicides are mentally ill.

Do you blame people that die of cancer? Are they cowards?

Only cowards commit suicide. Most people who commit suicide are too afraid of dealing with whatever problems they have and suicide is the easy way out.
Do you have any idea how hard it must be for a person to forfeit their own life? Murdering another person is said to be nerve wracking, so imagine doing so to yourself. Add to that the fear of what comes after death, if anything. If a person really feels life is not worth living, who are you to call them a coward? :rolleyes: Never mind the fact that the person died, but they are also a coward. Save your self-righteousness for yourself.

When you are suicidal,other peoples pain is the least of your concerns,you are so concerned with your own pain that it fills your world and crowds everything and everybody out.If you had found the courage to tell someone about your pain you most likely were told to buck up and deal with it. People who are surprised when a friend or family member commits suicide are often heard to say, i had no idea he or she was depressed or contemplating ending their life are deluding themselves,suicidal people always leave clues, most want somebody to hear them. The fact that nobody did only reinforces their attitude that no one care.Listen People, Listen

When you are suicidal,other peoples pain is the least of your concerns,you are so concerned with your own pain that it fills your world and crowds everything and everybody out.If you had found the courage to tell someone about your pain you most likely were told to buck up and deal with it. People who are surprised when a friend or family member commits suicide are often heard to say, i had no idea he or she was depressed or contemplating ending their life are deluding themselves,suicidal people always leave clues, most want somebody to hear them. The fact that nobody did only reinforces their attitude that no one care.Listen People, Listen
Agreed. People have no idea of what goes on in the minds of those around them. Yet they still rush to assume a person who commits suicide is a coward. :rolleyes: The emotional development of a five year old is higher than that.

I get angry every time someone says that a suicide is selfish. It's clear that anyone who think it's a selfish act know absolutely nothing about e.g. depression


Oh, but don't you see? Their "get the f--- over it" advice is absolutely marvelous in its simplicity, insensitvity, and sheer stupidity. :rolleyes:

Oh, but don't you see? Their "get the f--- over it" advice is absolutely marvelous in its simplicity, insensitvity, and sheer stupidity. :rolleyes:
Simple, AND stupid. The best of both worlds :p

When you are suicidal,other peoples pain is the least of your concerns,you are so concerned with your own pain that it fills your world and crowds everything and everybody out.If you had found the courage to tell someone about your pain you most likely were told to buck up and deal with it. People who are surprised when a friend or family member commits suicide are often heard to say, i had no idea he or she was depressed or contemplating ending their life are deluding themselves,suicidal people always leave clues, most want somebody to hear them. The fact that nobody did only reinforces their attitude that no one care.Listen People, Listen


Thank you. Someone actually gets it. :) :fluffle:

Of course. I'm very very glad I'm still alive, despite over a year of wishing I was dead, and I rarely think suicide is the right choice in a situation. I'll always try and convince someone to keep going and to keep hope.

But just because it's wrong in the sense of it not being the best thing to do, I don't think that makes it morally wrong in any way.

I also don't get why people try and explain why suicide is logically a bad choice when it's so obvious that people feeling this way aren't thinking logically due a psychological problem.
i agree with you totally on both points there. you sometimes simply can't explain the irrational... or you can, but it doesn't make sense to people who've never thought that way.

and i, for one, am damn glad - damn, damn glad - you are still alive :fluffle:
i don't want you to ever have to go through that pain again... i know what its like (obviously you know but for the point of posting here i may as well explain) as i felt life wasn't worth living, like i wanted to die, for about 2 years at uni. the one time i did actually attempt it was when logic left me and i did, like you say, think that killing myself would be better for everyone. prior to then, and since, knowing the pain that i would cause loved ones has been my "anchor" and stopped me from doing bad things, but in that moment i could no longer see that and only the grief i was causing them by being alive.
unless you've been there, i'm not sure you can understand.

though nowadays i'm better. my depression is better and i have hope for life. i used to think my lifespan would be limited by my parents: once they die i'd lose the anchor and would have no reason to put up with life. i now have hope in the future and new reasons to live and try and enjoy life, thanks to a certain lady who shall remain nameless ;) :fluffle:



but on topic: deciding what you do with your own body is the way we live - to eat or not to eat, to make this or that, to get up or stay in bed, to get a tattoo or not - and deciding to live or die is the ultimate choice in that respect. it is a decision - with regard to sucicde at least - we have total control over. whether it makes it right or wrong i can't decide. its wrong but i can't think of a moral reason why when it is our own choice and responsibility alone.

Thank you. Someone actually gets it. :) :fluffle:
I get it because i've being to the edge and it is a scary place, I never want to go back.While the reasons i almost did what i did are hardly new or unique i can in some small way relate to the pain because shared pain is a true basis of compassion.Thank You for recognizing that.:fluffle:

Anyone who wants to commit suicide doesn't deserve to live.

Anyone who wants to commit suicide doesn't deserve to live.


And trolls who think they're being funny and clever by posting something that asinine do?

Is it a person's fault that they died from lung cancer? Is it their fault that they died from some other illness? Is it a person's fault that they died (by suicide) from their depression? Your answer for each of these should be the same, for they are all cases where a person dies from a medical condition.

Clinical depression is a medical condition that can kill people just like cancer does. One important thing about clinical depression is that even if the person is very successful and leads an excellent life, they can still end up killing themselves due to clinical depression. That means that they aren't actually killing themselves from any problems they may have in their life. They aren't taking the easy way out, because that's not why they're killing themselves.

Also, when a clinically depressed person contemplates suicide, they see it as doing a favour to the world. They think of themselves as worthless and want to rid the world of a useless, worthless thing. Therefore, they are not being selfish if they do happen to succumb to it.

How do I know all this? I am clinically depressed. I have also done quite a bit of research on it, so I know what I'm talking about. I've also experienced suicidal tendencies. Twice, so far, I've contemplated suicide and now I realize that I was out of my mind. Fortunately, both times, I was able to fight it and prevent it from killing me. It's like fighting any illness, you need to do everything but succumb to the blackness that is the worthlessness of clinical depression.

You see, it's like your own mind is against you. You're fighting your own mind. Some lose the battle and some don't. Just because a person was not strong enough to combat this medical condition does not mean that you can mock them for their weakness, unless you are willing to mock every person that is "too weak" to fight life-threatening medical conditions.

I'm not against suicide but I still believe people should expend all of their options first. Not to mention they should consider what they're going to do to the people around them.
Sums it up for me. Suicide has to be a last resort.

Sums it up for me. Suicide has to be a last resort.


For someone with clinical depression, suicide is a last resort. They see it as the only way to end the pain.

For someone with clinical depression, suicide is a last resort. They see it as the only way to end the pain.
If it's the last resort, then so be it. When I say last, I do mean last. Not skipping a few on the way. It has to be absolutely the last possible resort.

Suicide isn't okay. Ever.

Just ask anyone that knows somebody who did it.

Telling people who are suicidal to suck it up and stop being so selfish doesn't help, though...I was suicidal once - believe me, i've heard that and it just makes you feel even more like shit. The one thing worse than being suicidal is total and complete misery to the point of complete apathy to life, and that's a surefire way to get someone into that state. Suicidal people need help and support, not that kind of treatment.

EDIT - to build on that - I couldn't even talk to my parents about it. When I made some comment, they would launch into a tirade on how suicide is an incredibly selfish and stupid thing to do. I'm not sure if they ever suspected how bad I was. I felt I couldn't talk to them because of it - they were unwilling to do anything except tell me how foolish I was when I tried to express my depression - or at least, that is how I felt at the time. I had no friends or anyone else to turn to. I realise the foolishness of it all NOW, but at the time, it's a terribly insensitive thing to say to someone. I think anyone who espouses the viewpoint that it is selfish should seriously think about it - it might not seem insensitive to you, telling them how foolish they are might seem like the right thing to do, but having been there, I can tell you that it certainly is NOT, and you will not help things. I managed to beat my depression without professional help, but if you're in the situation where a friend or loved one needs help, the best thing you can do is help them speak to a professional - and keep your mouth shut. The only other thing you can do is be an ear to speak to and a shoulder to cry on.

Ironically though, the thing that stopped me doing it was people (I use the term loosely) encouraging me to kill myself...strange, but true. Definitely not a suggested course of action though.

If it's the last resort, then so be it. When I say last, I do mean last. Not skipping a few on the way. It has to be absolutely the last possible resort.


Ok, I'm going to end this conversation here because you obviously refuse to understand. And when I say "refuse to", I mean exactly that. I strongly suspect that it's not that you don't get it, or can't get it. It's that you don't want to get it. I pity any friend or family member of yours that has to deal with depression. "Skipping a few along the way"? What an asinine thing to say. Do the world a favor. Don't go into counselling.

Telling people who are suicidal to suck it up and stop being so selfish doesn't help, though...Exactly. The people who are complaining about how utterly selfish it is clearly do not understand the complete irrationality, despair and apathy to life that comes with mental illnesses such as depression. It may well seem like a selfish action, but whining at a depressed person from that angle really isn't going to help.

From a philosophical view, anyone who dictates 'You shall not commit suicide' is oppressing the ultimate freedom... an individual's right to choose their own death over life ...whatever that person's reason may be.

It's unfortunate that people 'escape' depression and mental illness by suicide. The poll isn't just about depression caused suicide. Think of Japanese culture where suicide forms part of a respected tradition - seppuku. And karoshi, where people physically exhaust themsleves to death by working days on end (never likely to happen in the US) and die on the job.

Suicide - good or bad? The real issue that people seem to be discussing, is that there are many suicides that happen for wrong and unfortunate reasons, e.g depresson. Yep, sadly that doesn't seem ok.

But to say that an individual does not have the right to suicide, makes your views and opinions count instead of their own; it makes you as dominant as someone who would take a life from another. No justice there.

Another point: for all the people who think suicide is selfish and cowardly, you obviously think it's a bad choice, yes? Then why do you seek to make suicidal people feel even worse, more worthless and more unwanted? How does that help? If you want to prevent suicide either get some compassion or shut the fuck up.

When you are suicidal,other peoples pain is the least of your concerns,you are so concerned with your own pain that it fills your world and crowds everything and everybody out....
The rest of your post I agree with but not this. As I said earlier in the thread, a large majority of the time, suicidal people believe they will cause more pain to their loved ones if they stay alive. All the times I came closest to suicide were when I felt I was screwing up the lives of people I cared deeply about.

and for Huw: *hugs* you know how incredibly glad I am that you're still here... I can't imagine not having met you and not having you in my life. You're the best thing in it. And you also know how glad I am that I can help you :-) I love that I can do that.I love you.
I would, and easily could, say far more but I don't want to hijack the thread anymore, heh.

edit: oh, and here's some shameless linking to my website on the subject of suicide:
http://www.freewebs.com/understandingdepression/suicideselfharm.htm

Recently someone i sorta knew layed down on some train tracks.
This is to find out your opinion on Suicide and whether it is Ok for seriously depressed individuals, Ok for anyone who wants it or downright stupid.
Poll Attached.
Also, Cardinal Sin is part of this Post for debate.
Nothing is more certain in life than that things are going to change. Suicide means that you're not going to be here to see them change. Ergo, suicide is just stupid.

and for Huw: *hugs* you know how incredibly glad I am that you're still here... I can't imagine not having met you and not having you in my life. You're the best thing in it. And you also know how glad I am that I can help you :-) I love that I can do that.I love you.
I would, and easily could, say far more but I don't want to hijack the thread anymore, heh.

edit: oh, and here's some shameless linking to my website on the subject of suicide:
http://www.freewebs.com/understandingdepression/suicideselfharm.htm
*leaves shamelss plug in quote* ;)
its a good website actually, so not so shameless after all :P

but :fluffle: i'll talk to you later - hope you're ok
and this is quite amusing... you just got back from school as i'm just starting my own work for the day lol :S
love you too :-)

Another point: for all the people who think suicide is selfish and cowardly, you obviously think it's a bad choice, yes? Then why do you seek to make suicidal people feel even worse, more worthless and more unwanted? How does that help? If you want to prevent suicide either get some compassion or shut the fuck up.Amen.

Edit: Well done with the website by the way. It's very informative.

Suicide, save in cases of extreme physical pain or threat of imminent death is never acceptable.

I am usually very angry at suicides and don't feel sorry or sad for the person who committed suicide but rather the people hurt by their selfish act.

Everyone has problems and they deal with them every day...killing yourself is nothing more than pure selfishness and a willingness to sacrifice the feelings of everyone around you so you don't have to seek help or deal with your problems. It's the "easy" way out

Suicide is the most selfish action of all, because you are willing to cause incredible grief to everyone around you just to avoid dealing with problems or being forced to sacrifice your pride and seek help.
This is almost exactly how i feel on the subject!

So quickly people cling to absolutes. How quickly we dismiss the pains we do not know.

While the act of suicide may be selfish that doesn't make it any less valid a choice, or any more reprehensible. How many of us use the minimum of resources, just enough to scrape by? If one's idea of another's life has come to an abrupt, undeniable end, and somehow that's the fault of the dead? That someone else's idea of their life was incompatible with reality?

If those around people seriously considering suicide understood the nature and intensity of their deliberations would they be deeply grieved? Moved to concerted action? Would they be caught up in the web of their own emotional convience unable to reach out and understand a person in tremendous private pain? Would they be easily rebuffed? If these people are so emotionally invested in those who choose to end their lives, why are they so infrequently interjecting themselves, investing their time in those individual's internal debate?

That people are so quick to pass judgement and dismiss the very real and considerable pain of people who're unable to imagine a viable life really makes me wonder about the true nature of selfishness. What is it that drives someone to begrudge the tormented and dead their peace.

So quickly people cling to absolutes. How quickly we dismiss the pains we do not know.

While the act of suicide may be selfish that doesn't make it any less valid a choice, or any more reprehensible. How many of us use the minimum of resources, just enough to scrape by? If one's idea of another's life has come to an abrupt, undeniable end, and somehow that's the fault of the dead? That someone else's idea of their life was incompatible with reality?

If those around people seriously considering suicide understood the nature and intensity of their deliberations would they be deeply grieved? Moved to concerted action? Would they be caught up in the web of their own emotional convience unable to reach out and understand a person in tremendous private pain? Would they be easily rebuffed? If these people are so emotionally invested in those who choose to end their lives, why are they so infrequently interjecting themselves, investing their time in those individual's internal debate?

That people are so quick to pass judgement and dismiss the very real and considerable pain of people who're unable to imagine a viable life really makes me wonder about the true nature of selfishness. What is it that drives someone to begrudge the tormented and dead their peace.
Hi Kiblonia, having lived through the awful guilt, grief and despair of my ex partner's suicide and a year later one of my best friends, i am less than objective and, it would seem, to my surprise, extremely angry! i would hope that i would not rebuff anyone in such anguish, i am not equipped to tell whether someone is making empty threats to manipulate people or situations (which does happen) or if they are serious but alas, these experiences have taught me to withdraw out of self preservation and the preservation of my now fatherless daughter.

Suicide, save in cases of extreme physical pain or threat of imminent death is never acceptable.

I am usually very angry at suicides and don't feel sorry or sad for the person who committed suicide but rather the people hurt by their selfish act.

Everyone has problems and they deal with them every day...killing yourself is nothing more than pure selfishness and a willingness to sacrifice the feelings of everyone around you so you don't have to seek help or deal with your problems. It's the "easy" way out

Suicide is the most selfish action of all, because you are willing to cause incredible grief to everyone around you just to avoid dealing with problems or being forced to sacrifice your pride and seek help.


what if those problems seemed insummountable? what if your future looked so utterly bleak you couldn't comprehend finding help, yet alone getting better or dealing with your problems? what if your problems - most likely clinical depression of one sort or another - were to prevent you from thinking rationally like that and think that the pain you would cause loved ones would be outweighed by the benefits to them of your being dead? what if you don't - or feel you don't - have any loved ones to hurt?

as glitz said, get some compassion or shut the fuck up unless you've been there.

Suicides Need to consider who they are hurting

... Suicide means that you're not going to be here to see them change. ...Once you are dead, that will hardly matter. Nothing will.

Live on if you want to. Die if you want to. It doesn't matter. This is one of the main reasons that I have decided to live on: It doesn't really matter if I experience more pain (altought, if my life would become not only unbearable over a period of time, but in the moment, with no hope for improvement, then I would simply get rid of it, as it would then be completely useless even within it's own little scope) once I'm dead, so I might just as well live on.

Now while I am alive however, I hope for the quickest possible eradication of humanity. It would be great to be able to eradicate humanity before I die. It is extremely unlikely that I would be able to do so, but I can always hope. I would recommend that those who are beyond the point of no return, turn their feelings outward instead, (for most reasons that people have, it is stupid to take such things out on yourself. atleast compensate for it a bit, if you can't avoid it) and, as their lives are ruined anyway, find some useless moron(s) to kill before they die themselves. (make sure to do so in as rational a manner as possible, however. otherwise, you would be no better than the moron(s) you killed) That way, they will atleast have done the world a significant favor.

You can call me unsympathetic or whatever comes to mind...

I call it [suicide] natual selection.

Amen.

Edit: Well done with the website by the way. It's very informative.
Thank you :)

The lack of understanding around is incredible. The most voted for option on this poll is saying suicidal people should think more about who they're hurting. All the times I felt like commiting suicide is was primarily based on consuming thoughts about hurting all the people I cared about. Depression twists your logic to suit it's own goals.

I blame the media for part of this. Films portray suicide so unrealistically, especially with the common idea of suicide as "revenge" against people who hurt them. It's like they need to make it more dramatic, for some bizarre reason.

Nothing is more certain in life than that things are going to change. Suicide means that you're not going to be here to see them change. Ergo, suicide is just stupid.

Because change is always for the better ?

I know a few people who've tried to kill themselves, and a couple who've managed. Personally I don't think suicide is ever the answer (unless it's to save yourself from a particularly painful death in the immediate future. Like if you're surrounded by a pride of salavating lions, and you have a gun with just one bullet. Weird example, but you know what I mean).

I think when you get suicidally depressed it's so hard to see past your current pain that you can't see that the future might be bright. A friend of mine, who had as tough a childhood as you could possibly have, tried to kill herself seven times. She swore she wouldn't reach ninteen. She's now twenty, in love with the man of her dreams, and couldn't be happier.

I think when you get suicidally depressed it's so hard to see past your current pain that you can't see that the future might be bright. A friend of mine, who had as tough a childhood as you could possibly have, tried to kill herself seven times. She swore she wouldn't reach ninteen. She's now twenty, in love with the man of her dreams, and couldn't be happier.
That's it really. You often can't remember a time when things were okay and/or can't imagine them ever being okay. To get to the point where you kill yourself, there is no voice in the back of your head giving you reasons to live. There are none that you can find. There's only a voice convincing you that it's the right thing to do.

edit: and I'm glad things worked out for her in the end :)

In my experience Suicide just leads to more Suicides, or attempts at least.
The main causes for it are
Insanity
Bullying
Love Lost.

What are we to learn from this?
Dont be insane,
If you bully people and i find out where you live, i'll cut you
become cold and heartless.

Euthanasia centers in every town; no appointment necessary; counseling available but walk-in, health-care-subsidized, full-service offered; enormous LCDs with images of natural beauty, classical music, sitting lobby with comfortable couches and texts of every major religion as available reading; more than one location in larger cities, located in business centers and near 'cram-schools' (in Asian countries); and of course, a most liberal definition of euthanasia to encompass any kind of suffering the patient subjectively claims to have; oh yeah, aggressive, comprehensive advertising campaigns to encourage societal acceptability. For that matter, include additional facilities for irreversible sterilization (with tax incentives). Offer promotions featuring 'free last meal' banquets with fantastic spreads with morphine-potassium injections for dessert. Curb over-population within two generations.

Suicides Need to consider who they are hurting

You haven't been listening, have you? When someone is depressed and contemplating suicide, in their mind they are thinking about those they are hurting. They're thinking that those around them would be better off if they were dead. Got it now? Clinical depression isn't a lifestyle. You can't choose to be clinically depressed. Believe me, I'd rather not be. It isn't a matter of volition. And it's not something I can just will myself out of. To all of you who have posted variations on "get over it", my reply is "Fine. I'll do that. As soon as you tell me how." Clinical depression is a medical condition.

<snip>What are we to learn from this?
Dont be insane,
If you bully people and i find out where you live, i'll cut you
become cold and heartless.
Damn. My sanity has been slowly and increasingly detoriating for the last few years or so. Not that it matters in this case, as I have turned all my suicidal thoughts into homicidal ones, which I then restrain with my ever-improving self-control. As a result, instead of shifting between feeling relatively fine and being severely depressed, I either feel relatively good, feel even better while giggling maniacally for myself and/or thinking some rather unusual things, or feel... acceptably fine, while boiling of anger and hatred towards humanity.

No problem there.

I'm making relatively good progress there, lately. And I have decided to live alone for the rest of my life as soon as I move away from my dad, and never to let anyone into my life in the future, deeper than on the surface.

... Interesting. There is a fever spreading in my community with attempted slittings and ect, all because they miss this person who commited suicide.

This changed my posistion on suicide.

It is wrong. Not religiously, but because it can fuck people up. LOTS.
For those who WANT to fuck people up "...bastards'll be sorry tommorow"
tell me where you live and i'll spare you the trouble of doing it yourself.

*sighs*

Why does everyone seem to insist humans have some sort of "sacred duty" to stay alive ? I thought people liked freedom...

*sighs*

Why does everyone seem to insist humans have some sort of "sacred duty" to stay alive ? I thought people liked freedom...


For themselves, yes. For anyone who isn't themselves, not so much.

Because change is always for the better ?
No, but it's almost always interesting! Aren't you at all curious???

Clinical depression is a medical condition.
Yes it is. There are a number of things you can do to ameliorate it though. I strongly recommend running. Running releases endorphins into the brain, which lift your mood for hours afterward. It's good for you physically, emotionally and mentally, plus it doesn't cost anything.

I'm sure you're aware of all the options open to physicians, so I won't belabor those.

No, but it's almost always interesting! Aren't you at all curious???

Me ? Yes. But I am not everyone.

Me ? Yes. But I am not everyone.
I always thought curiosity was a universal human trait. :confused:

WHY is it the people who are chronically depressed never seem to get round to it and the seemingly happy people always do it just before you did and make you go "WOOH...fuuuuck..." When i say before You did it im not refering to me im refering to a friend of mine.

I always thought curiosity was a universal human trait. :confused:

If only that were true :( Science would flourish.

my dad killed himself 4 1/2 years ago. it fucks everyone with any relation to the person up. simple as that, and i kinda hope he goes to hell, but not really 'cause he's my dad. see? the fucked up part.

my dad killed himself 4 1/2 years ago. it fucks everyone with any relation to the person up. simple as that, and i kinda hope he goes to hell, but not really 'cause he's my dad. see? the fucked up part.

Hmm... with that name, that post and that sig I can just tell that we're not going to get on...

Hmm... with that name, that post and that sig I can just tell that we're not going to get on...

nah, the name and such was just a joke from business class last year. i've had several other nations, so no big deal.

I tried to commit suicide. Twice. The second time, I came extremely close to succeeding.

To anyone considering it, I encourage you to not make the attempt. No matter how bad your life may seem, it's absolutely not worth it. You'll only be hurting all the people you love, and all the people who love you. Instead, get help.

On a side note, if anyone here is suffering serious depression, and needs someone to talk to, feel free to TG me anytime.

Yes it is. There are a number of things you can do to ameliorate it though. I strongly recommend running. Running releases endorphins into the brain, which lift your mood for hours afterward. It's good for you physically, emotionally and mentally, plus it doesn't cost anything.

I'm sure you're aware of all the options open to physicians, so I won't belabor those.


I'm in a wheelchair, Eut. Running isn't really an option. And there's a lot more to it than just endorphins.

I tried to commit suicide. Twice. The second time, I came extremely close to succeeding.

To anyone considering it, I encourage you to not make the attempt. No matter how bad your life may seem, it's absolutely not worth it. You'll only be hurting all the people you love, and all the people who love you. Instead, get help.

On a side note, if anyone here is suffering serious depression, and needs someone to talk to, feel free to TG me anytime.


ditto. And you're right it isn't worth it. But when you're depressed, neither is life.

No, but it's almost always interesting! Aren't you at all curious???
When all you can see is pain for you and your loved by ones simply because of your very existence, no, you aren't curious or interested.

I know you can't know what the future holds, and I would never reccomend suicide, but in that state of mind you believe that the future will only get worse. You "know" it like you know that you exist, like you know gravity exists. And I doubt anyone can look forward to the future if they "know" with that certainity their life will always involve suffering from depression and causing the suffering of people around them.

When all you can see is pain for you and your loved by ones simply because of your very existence, no, you aren't curious or interested.

I know you can't know what the future holds, and I would never reccomend suicide, but in that state of mind you believe that the future will only get worse. You "know" it like you know that you exist, like you know gravity exists. And I doubt anyone can look forward to the future if they "know" with that certainity their life will always involve suffering from depression and causing the suffering of people around them.


Now if I could just get my therapist to understand that.

Now if I could just get my therapist to understand that.
Is there any possibilty of finding another therapist?

In a way I wish people would understand. But the only people I know who truly understand have gone through it themselves, and I don't think I could wish that on anyone.

nah, the name and such was just a joke from business class last year. i've had several other nations, so no big deal.

I apologise, I've seen too many lunatics on this forum to recognise irony.:)

Is there any possibilty of finding another therapist?

you'd actually be a pretty good (read: excellent) therapist yourself.

had to be said.

(murmurs) im depressed! help.

Anyway, what about the following scenario.

EVERYTHING is going wrong, like you know everything.
should the person say "... well from the bottom you can only go up!"
oooor "...wheres my knife"
oooor "....teee-heee....HEHEHHEEHHEHH...Whers my knife im gonna go see Mr. Wilson."

... for any choosing option C... kindly direct yourself to an Asylum.

you'd actually be a pretty good (read: excellent) therapist yourself.

had to be said.
:fluffle:
Hopefully you're right seeing as that will be part of being a psychologist *crosses fingers and toes*

:fluffle:
Hopefully you're right seeing as that will be part of being a psychologist *crosses fingers and toes*
partly why i said it. i think you'll be good :fluffle:
you're insightful, compassionate, intelligent and you care about people - all recipes for being great at helping people... whether its your job or not. for example, you help me so much :)
ok i might not exactly be impartial :P but i still think you'll be great ;)

Suicide is really only ok if it is to prevent capture.

Suicide is really only ok if it is to prevent capture.

Read thread.

my dad killed himself 4 1/2 years ago. it fucks everyone with any relation to the person up. simple as that, and i kinda hope he goes to hell, but not really 'cause he's my dad. see? the fucked up part.
That's the main reason why I could never do it.


"Do no harm."

Is there any possibilty of finding another therapist?

In a way I wish people would understand. But the only people I know who truly understand have gone through it themselves, and I don't think I could wish that on anyone.


No, every therapist I've tried for years basically does the same thing. If I hear "find happiness from within" one more time, I'll scream. How do you find something that isn't there? How do you get happiness from within yourself if there's nothing to have put it in there in the first place?