NationStates Jolt Archive

The World According To America
http://www.welfarestate.com/map/

are Americans *actually* the most idiotic nation, or do we just talk more?

i've met some fairly idiotic people from all over the world.. however, my fellow Americans seem to be "the best" in that field. this is according to personal experience and according to people's opinions of Americans while i was in their countries.

is this a reflection of our corrupted education system, or just a reflection of what happens to minds corrupted by power? or what, exactly, is it.. ? and what might we Americans do to tame it (or is it far too late).. ??

I love that map:D

It's pretty much accurate...

Americans aren't stupid they're just... special.

will someone PLEASE tell me why i have that [NS:::] crap in front of my name? i don't know why it's there, or how to get rid of it. thanx!! :)

If Americans were stupid we wouldn't have the best universities in the world, woldn't dominate the Nobel Prizes in the sciences, wouldn't develop thousands of new technologies and products every year, and we definitely wouldn't be a major participant in almost all types of international research.

Vegetarianistica']are Americans *actually* the most idiotic nation, or do we just talk more?
Well, Anericans do talk an awful lot more bollocks than anyone else on the planet - collectively, and as individuals, so...

Yeah. Both.

*ducks*

I think you just talk louder. I've noticed some other countries have a way of going "sssh!" to their idiots, while in the US, they get TV and radio shows.

LOL, nice map

Vegetarianistica']will someone PLEASE tell me why i have that [NS:::] crap in front of my name? i don't know why it's there, or how to get rid of it. thanx!! :)

Isn't it something to do with another jolt user having already registered under Vegetarianistica? [/making shit up

You could try asking in the technical forum if you don't get an answer here. But don't blame me if it's the wrong place.

I seem to remember someone else who got rid of the [NS:::::::] crap, but I don't know how. They asked one of the mods via IRC, I think.

I never knew I could be this helpful ;)

If Americans were stupid we wouldn't have the best universities in the world, woldn't dominate the Nobel Prizes in the sciences, wouldn't develop thousands of new technologies and products every year, and we definitely wouldn't be a major participant in almost all types of international research.

If you were intelligent 50% of you wouldn't believe in Creationism.;)

Vegetarianistica']The World According To America
http://www.welfarestate.com/map/

are Americans *actually* the most idiotic nation, or do we just talk more?
It's called "the price of being high profile." Everything America does, and every foible or failing of Americans is magnified a thousand times. Much of this comes courtesy of American media talking heads, most of whom have been taught that everything American has to be somehow second-rate or wrong-headed or just plain stupid.

I think you just talk louder. I've noticed some other countries have a way of going "sssh!" to their idiots, while in the US, they get TV and radio shows.

The 700 Club, Jerry Springer show, The O'Reilly Factor, and pretty much everything on MTV...

I think you just talk louder. I've noticed some other countries have a way of going "sssh!" to their idiots, while in the US, they get TV and radio shows.

:p

If you were intelligent 50% of you wouldn't believe in Creationism.;)

I don't know...isn't there some obscenely high number of people in the UK that believe in creationism? I think that's pretty common in a lot of countries...not a good thing, but common.

Vegetarianistica']will someone PLEASE tell me why i have that [NS:::] crap in front of my name? i don't know why it's there, or how to get rid of it. thanx!! :)

It means no steak. Applies only to vegetarians depriving themselves of the necessary animal protiens to maintain body heat.

If Americans were stupid we wouldn't have the best universities in the world, woldn't dominate the Nobel Prizes in the sciences, wouldn't develop thousands of new technologies and products every year, and we definitely wouldn't be a major participant in almost all types of international research.

Hell yeah brother!

Much of this comes courtesy of American media talking heads, most of whom have been taught that everything American has to be somehow second-rate or wrong-headed or just plain stupid.
I like how he sets about the task of proving my point with such alacrity.

The 700 Club, Jerry Springer show, The O'Reilly Factor, and pretty much everything on MTV...

Yeah, pretty much what I was talking about. It is an image problem more than an actual one, I should think. Bushisms don't help, either, I'm afraid.

If Americans were stupid we wouldn't have the best universities in the world, woldn't dominate the Nobel Prizes in the sciences, wouldn't develop thousands of new technologies and products every year, and we definitely wouldn't be a major participant in almost all types of international research.

So you have the best and the worst. Greedy bastards.

If Americans were stupid we wouldn't have the best universities in the world, woldn't dominate the Nobel Prizes in the sciences, wouldn't develop thousands of new technologies and products every year, and we definitely wouldn't be a major participant in almost all types of international research.

You've got three big advantages:
1. There are LOADS of you (at least in comparison to European countries)
2. You have enough of most natural resources to be self-sufficient (if consumption was less profligate)
3. You have no hostile neigbours

It's called "the price of being high profile."

partially, maybe, but.. no.

actually i think the reason the world thinks were stupid is becuase we have so much freedom in the press, tv, and radio. Admit it all you other countries, you have idiots to that you just dont let go public.

So you have the best and the worst. Greedy bastards.

Yeah, it's like panning for gold in a pile of shit in most places.

You've got three big advantages:
1. There are LOADS of you (at least in comparison to European countries)
2. You have enough of most natural resources to be self-sufficient (if consumption was less profligate)
3. You have no hostile neigbours

Yes, that's correct. However, the US is also a lot younger than most European nations, and only became a true superpower 60 years ago.

I don't know...isn't there some obscenely high number of people in the UK that believe in creationism? I think that's pretty common in a lot of countries...not a good thing, but common.

1. It was 22% which, while scary, isn't as scary as a majority of the nutters.
2. We have the courtesy to keep our idiots out of the way in obscurity.

1. It was 22% which, while scary, isn't as scary as a majority of the nutters.
2. We have the courtesy to keep our idiots out of the way in obscurity.

1.22%...in Europe? That's scary compared to the continent...

2.That's cause you have competent media that actually values the news above sensationalism...that could never happen in the US.

If Americans were stupid we wouldn't have the best universities in the world, woldn't dominate the Nobel Prizes in the sciences, wouldn't develop thousands of new technologies and products every year, and we definitely wouldn't be a major participant in almost all types of international research.

yes and no. yes, we have some very brainy people here. no.. because they're what percentage of the whole population? the people i deal with daily are the average joes.. not the nobel prize winners..

Vegetarianistica']yes and no. yes, we have some very brainy people here. no.. because they're what percentage of the whole population? the people i deal with daily are the average joes.. not the nobel prize winners..

Yes, but those kind of people are like that everywhere, it seems. I don't think it is a national thing, but rather the fact that most "average" people aren't particularly well educated, especially the farther down you move on the income scale...although there are exceptions.

Vegetarianistica']yes and no. yes, we have some very brainy people here. no.. because they're what percentage of the whole population? the people i deal with daily are the average joes.. not the nobel prize winners..

What and all teh european countries dont have average joes? Oh and the average person in the US has at least a high school diploma and has a decent life.

*snip*... And Europe and the Anglosphere's enduring anti-American inferiority complex goes on ...

Personally, I think its due to greater access to media we have here.

But, what is really sad is that all the people who are out there trying to bury us over it still eat it up.

1.22%...in Europe? That's scary compared to the continent...

2.That's cause you have competent media that actually values the news above sensationalism...that could never happen in the US.

1. Well all of that data came from a single poll which was commissioned to accompany a TV documentary on 'The War on Science' so I'm inclined to take it with a pinch of salt. Failing that we outnumber them four to one so we can beat them with sticks if all else fails.

2. You may have a point here, I contend that every nation is full of idiots but the UK has a better class of idiot.

... And Europe and the Anglosphere's enduring anti-American inferiority complex goes on ...

[NS:::]Vegetarianistica
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Duluth, Minnesota
Posts: 210 :rolleyes:

Vegetarianistica']The World According To America
http://www.welfarestate.com/map/

are Americans *actually* the most idiotic nation, or do we just talk more?

i've met some fairly idiotic people from all over the world.. however, my fellow Americans seem to be "the best" in that field. this is according to personal experience and according to people's opinions of Americans while i was in their countries.

is this a reflection of our corrupted education system, or just a reflection of what happens to minds corrupted by power? or what, exactly, is it.. ? and what might we Americans do to tame it (or is it far too late).. ??
It's provincialism rather than stupidity a lot of the time: many Americans don't appear to have even a casual interest in anything that happens outside of their own country.

many Americans don't appear to have even a casual interest in anything that happens outside of their own country.
Many others don't appear to have even a casual interest in anything that happens outside of their own county.

Many others don't appear to have even a casual interest in anything that happens outside of their own county.
The local news services are a bit insular, then?

If you were intelligent 50% of you wouldn't believe in Creationism.;)

Over half the planet believes in creationism.

America has the largest mass media, the largest economy and the highest standard of living. We have a massive amount of land area, making it possible for an American to never have to leave the country if they don't want to. Being seperated by two oceans also makes travel to foreign countries more expensive and more difficult.

American culture has always been focused inward. There's still a pretty serious isolationist streak in many Americans. They don't care about Europe or the rest of the world because they don't have to. That's their choice.

I don't think Americans are any more or less stupid than people anywhere else. There just happen to be more of us, we're richer and we're louder.

I don't see anything wrong with that. If you do, you're probably not American.

If you were intelligent 50% of you wouldn't believe in Creationism.;)

that haas little to do with intelligence, much more to do with faith.

You've got three big advantages:
1. There are LOADS of you (at least in comparison to European countries)
2. You have enough of most natural resources to be self-sufficient (if consumption was less profligate)
3. You have no hostile neigbours

we are pretty awesome.

BTW, i love that map.

Over half the planet believes in creationism.
Lesse you back up that assertion, Brian.

We have a massive amount of land area, making it possible for an American to never have to leave the country if they don't want to.

Not leaving your own country has what to do with land area? I mean, unless your country isn't physically big enough to stand up in, it doesn't matter if it's the size of Russia or the size of the Vatican.

Being seperated by two oceans also makes travel to foreign countries more expensive and more difficult.

Canada and Mexico. My case is rested.

Over half the planet believes in creationism.
It would probably be more accurate to say that over half the planet believes in creationism, or its equivalent in their own belief system. :)

-snip-
I don't see anything wrong with that. If you do, you're probably not American.
Heh...I like that last line. :)

Lesse you back up that assertion, Brian.

There are 2.1 billion Christians.

There are 1.4 billion Muslims.

There are 14 million Jews.

These are all religions that spring from the same source, and have the same Adam & Eve creation story. Add that up. 3.5 billion, give or a take a few. That's over half the planet.

Granted, not every single Christian, Muslim or Jew is going to believe the creation story, I'm a Christian and I view it as metaphor, but if we're going to be throwing around someone's religious beliefs as a means of determining their intelligence, I'm going to hazard that precise fact isn't really all that necessary.

Being seperated by two oceans also makes travel to foreign countries more expensive and more difficult.
True, and most of us can't afford the freight, myself included. My wife and I are in the talking stages of travelling to Rome, Italy. In order to afford that, I'll have to save for about two years, minimum.

It would probably be more accurate to say that over half the planet believes in creationism, or its equivalent in their own belief system. :)
Lessee you back up that assertion, Truss.

Not leaving your own country has what to do with land area? I mean, unless your country isn't physically big enough to stand up in, it doesn't matter if it's the size of Russia or the size of the Vatican.
America has every biome within its borders except tropical rainforest. That's what they are refering to. There is enough diversity within America, that Americans don't have to leave America to see many things. America is diverse enough that Americans can stay comfortably within America and see a very diverse range of things.

There are 2.1 billion Christians.

There are 1.4 billion Muslims.

There are 14 million Jews.



Where did those figures come from? At lot of people default to calling themselves Christian as opposed to, say, atheist or agnostic, out of habit without actually believing in Creationism.

Not leaving your own country has what to do with land area? I mean, unless your country isn't physically big enough to stand up in, it doesn't matter if it's the size of Russia or the size of the Vatican.

Well, think about it this way. Do why most people leave their country? To travel? See something they've not seen before? Go skiing in the Alps, or swimming in the Mediterranean - If you live in Poland, you don't have a tropical region to go hang out in. If you live in England, you've got no mountains to go skiing in.

In America you have represnted every single different kind of climate, two oceans, mountains, valleys, etc. There's nothing that you can't do within the borders of the country, and you can drive there. No passports, no inspections, all the laws are similiar and everyone speaks the same language, for the most part.

That's all a factor of how much land we've got and how many different climates and ecosytems we've got within that land. Canada and Mexico don't.

Canada and Mexico. My case is rested.

I'm willing to bet that your average Mexican is probably worse when it comes to not having any idea what's going on outside his own country than your average American. Canada doesn't really count, because they're forced to learn two languages because of Quebec, and being part of the Commonwealth makes them naturally more attuned to Europe.

America has every biome within its borders except tropical rainforest. That's what they are refering to. There is enough diversity within America, that Americans don't have to leave America to see many things. America is diverse enough that Americans can stay comfortably within America and see a very diverse range of things.

Yeah, I see that. Was a bad argument, anyway.

Also, it depends on what you want to see. Geographically, it has a lot more diversity than many places, but it's behind a lot of Europe (IMO) historically.

There are 2.1 billion Christians.

There are 1.4 billion Muslims.

There are 14 million Jews.

These are all religions that spring from the same source, and have the same Adam & Eve creation story. Add that up. 3.5 billion, give or a take a few. That's over half the planet.

Granted, not every single Christian, Muslim or Jew is going to believe the creation story, I'm a Christian and I view it as metaphor,.Then why are you talking such shite, then? but if we're going to be throwing around someone's religious beliefs as a means of determining their intelligence, What the Frap are you spouting off about now?I'm going to hazard that precise fact isn't really all that necessaryI'm going to hazard you've just got too much access to media, to paraphrase an earlier poster...:rolleyes:

Where did those figures come from? At lot of people default to calling themselves Christian as opposed to, say, atheist or agnostic, out of habit without actually believing in Creationism.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

B

Yeah, I see that. Was a bad argument, anyway.

Also, it depends on what you want to see. Geographically, it has a lot more diversity than many places, but it's behind a lot of Europe (IMO) historically.
Well, it works for enough Americans that it passes.

Just look at my location to see what I think. ;)

I'm willing to bet that your average Mexican is probably worse when it comes to not having any idea what's going on outside his own country than your average American. Canada doesn't really count, because they're forced to learn two languages because of Quebec, and being part of the Commonwealth makes them naturally more attuned to Europe.

Wrong point, I'm afraid. I was saying that those are foreign countries with land borders to the USA.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

B

Sizes shown are approximate estimates, and are here mainly for the purpose of ordering the groups, not providing a definitive number

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of that.

Then why are you talking such shite, then?

Because the implication is that because 50% of Americans believe in creationism (even if that's true) we must be stupid is ridiculous. People's religious beliefs have nothing to do with their inherent intelligence or education.

An American can be very smart, but Americans as a group (or more accurately, a mob) can be incredibly dumb.

America has every biome within its borders except tropical rainforest.

just because people don't Have to leave the country doesn't explain why they're not interested in the rest of the world.

If Americans were stupid we wouldn't have the best universities in the world, woldn't dominate the Nobel Prizes in the sciences, wouldn't develop thousands of new technologies and products every year, and we definitely wouldn't be a major participant in almost all types of international research.
That is an entirely true proposition.

Roffleophagus.

People's religious beliefs have nothing to do with their inherent intelligence or education.
I'll choose to disagree with you there. You don't hear anybody sticking up for the Scientologists and Lord Xenu, do you?

Hah.

America has the largest mass media, the largest economy and the highest standard of living. We have a massive amount of land area, making it possible for an American to never have to leave the country if they don't want to. Being seperated by two oceans also makes travel to foreign countries more expensive and more difficult.

American culture has always been focused inward. There's still a pretty serious isolationist streak in many Americans. They don't care about Europe or the rest of the world because they don't have to. That's their choice.

I don't think Americans are any more or less stupid than people anywhere else. There just happen to be more of us, we're richer and we're louder.

I don't see anything wrong with that. If you do, you're probably not American.
I'm not American, but the lack of any facts to back up your claims seems to be something wrong with that.

Vegetarianistica']just because people don't Have to leave the country doesn't explain why they're not interested in the rest of the world.

The explanation is simple: they don't have to be.

What happens in France won't have an actual affect on you in Minnesota. If you're in Spain, England, Germany, Belgium, Holland or Luxembourg, what happens in France WILL have an actual affect on you.

We are insulated, and as a result, most Americans really couldn't care. Hell, most folks in New York could care less what happens to someone in Alaska or Hawaii and we're all in the same country.

There's nothing wrong with that. Not being worldly doesn't make you bad or stupid. It's just a choice.

Not leaving your own country has what to do with land area? I mean, unless your country isn't physically big enough to stand up in, it doesn't matter if it's the size of Russia or the size of the Vatican.

Canada and Mexico. My case is rested.Yeah, your case is about as relevant as if I were to present Paris Hilton's sex tape as evidence in Saddam's trial. You live on an island the size of California, and you can't get much action unless you cross the channel every so often. We live on a vast continent, where you don't even need passports to travel (travel inside Mexico and Canada does not require passports). So much is made about the small number of Americans who own passports, but most Euro-oafs who make that claim haven't even crossed the pond themselves, so how can they fault Americans for not doing the same?!

Geographically, it has a lot more diversity than many places, but it's behind a lot of Europe (IMO) historically.Typical Western arrogance. We were occupied by people long before the Europeans decided to come here. There are plenty of pre-Columbian historical sites here.

(IMO)Tell me: Have you even been to America in order to make that judgment?

I'm not American, but the lack of any facts to back up your claims seems to be something wrong with that.

Are you disputing anything I said? If you want to, go for it. I'm not going to start doing a massive research project to justify what I said.

I think it's amusing that non-Americans try to use the fact that Americans don't care about them as a means of demonstrating their superiority. Kind of an interesting line of reasoning there.

Vegetarianistica']just because people don't Have to leave the country doesn't explain why they're not interested in the rest of the world.
I didn't say that American's aren't interested in the world.
You're speaking in generalities.
Look at my location and you'll see.

I think it's amusing that non-Americans try to use the fact that Americans don't care about them as a means of demonstrating their superiority. Kind of an interesting line of reasoning there.
What's this meant to be in aid of, then?

What's this meant to be in aid of, then?

It was meant to be in response to half the posts in this thread.

It was meant to be in response to half the posts in this thread.
I call it flame-bait. Obvious flame-bait at that.

You live on an island the size of California, and you can't get much action unless you cross the channel every so often.

Right. There's nothing here. At all. Like, ever. Also, while we're doing this, define action for me. Because I'm not sure what you mean, and it's entirely possible you're trolling.

We live on a vast continent, where you don't even need passports to travel (travel inside Mexico and Canada does not require passports). So much is made about the small number of Americans who own passports, but most Euro-oafs who make that claim haven't even crossed the pond themselves, so how can they fault Americans for not doing the same?!

Dunno. I don't care how many of you own passports, and I have crossed the pond, so, yeah, what were you saying? And it doesn't matter if we've crossed the pond, since we can go to places like Europe and Africa without doing so.

Typical Western arrogance. We were occupied by people long before the Europeans decided to come here. There are plenty of pre-Columbian historical sites here.

I know that, but I would assume (I don't know for certain) that the legacy of, say, Ancient Greece, is far superior to that of any indigenous American population.

Tell me: Have you even been to America in order to make that judgment?

Yes, I have been to America.

America has every biome within its borders except tropical rainforest. That's what they are refering to. There is enough diversity within America, that Americans don't have to leave America to see many things. America is diverse enough that Americans can stay comfortably within America and see a very diverse range of things.

Very good explanation. Within my home state of Washington, there are deserts; sagebrush badlands; canyons; alpine mountains and meadows; large bodies of fresh water as well as ocean and inlet/sound salt water (including tidal flats, estuaries, marshes, etc.); rolling pastoral lowlands; rocky coastline and sandy beaches; temperate rainforests; orchard and vineyard country; mighty rivers...and that's just the topography! Lots of Washingtoninans have never left the state unless they live near a border and a larger metro area is across it (Vancouver, WA to Portland, OR or Bellingham, WA to Vancouver, BC for example). Insularity would seem to be a natural byproduct of such diversity, especially if you haven't got any kind of room in the budget for long-distance travel.

I didn't say that American's aren't interested in the world.
You're speaking in generalities.
Look at my location and you'll see.

generalities -- of course. it's how we judge other countries.. by generalities. it's how we're judged, and our government is judged. and i lived in south africa for 5 years.. not to mention travel. i'm not saying we're all imbeciles. just the majority. possibly me included, couldn't say. ;)

Ahhh the lovely US vs. Europe (or some other continient/group/whatever) debate.
It seems that as you go through the posts they gradually devolve, like so:
American: (Intelligent arguement as to why the US isnt so bad)
European: (Intelligent arguement as to why Europe pwns the US)
American: (Grabs club, beats ground with it, hoots)
European: (Jumps up and down, beats ground with fists, screams)
American: (Beats chest, grunts)
European: (Beats chest longer, screams more)
American: (Claims to have invented fire)
European: (Claims to have invented the wheel)
(Fight)

Substitute 'American' and 'European' for any amount of various forum SN's and you have your average NS debate after two pages.
Hooray.

Oh, and just so people dont complain about a 'zero-content' post, I agree with Fass for once.

I know that, but I would assume (I don't know for certain) that the legacy of, say, Ancient Greece, is far superior to that of any indigenous American population.
Just going to jump in a second time and say something...
So, determining that the world is round, finding Pi to the 5th decimal (better than the Greeks, did, I think), and having a 14,000 mile road system while Europe was still at the 'dirt track' period for the most part, not to mention a buerocracy to rival the Chinese means that they have an 'inferior legacy' just becaus a bunch of Spaniards decided to burn it down and use it to build rather ugly houses?
Lovely.

Very good explanation. Within my home state of Washington, there are deserts; sagebrush badlands; canyons; alpine mountains and meadows; large bodies of fresh water as well as ocean and inlet/sound salt water (including tidal flats, estuaries, marshes, etc.); rolling pastoral lowlands; rocky coastline and sandy beaches; temperate rainforests; orchard and vineyard country; mighty rivers...and that's just the topography! Lots of Washingtoninans have never left the state unless they live near a border and a larger metro area is across it (Vancouver, WA to Portland, OR or Bellingham, WA to Vancouver, BC for example). Insularity would seem to be a natural byproduct of such diversity, especially if you haven't got any kind of room in the budget for long-distance travel.
Its an American thing. I know. I feel you, bro.

Not to mention all of the immigrants that don't bother to speak English all of the time makes us feel like we're over seas. The Finns in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, the Latinos that are everywhere these days, the Swedes in Minnisoita, the Italians and Greeks that have dispersed thoughout the country, the Chinatowns, and the Arabs in Detroit to name a few. America is very interesting, but I think it can only be truely appreciated by a home-grown American.

Vegetarianistica]generalities -- of course. it's how we judge other countries.. by generalities. it's how we're judged, and our government is judged. and i lived in south africa for 5 years.. not to mention travel. i'm not saying we're all imbeciles. just the majority. possibly me included, couldn't say.
Generalities. I don't really like them, but damn. Those Russians. Every time I forget to lock my door in Finland they come and steal something. What pricks! Its not like the entire Third Reich is blasting across their borders right now, stealing their food and laying seige to their cities! They got that oil money! They're filty rich! Look at them!

Alright, I'll stop. Couldn't resist.

I've felt the same way. "Am I a stupid American? Do I really know what I'm talking about?" Most of the time, I'm not sure. So, I try mainly to talk about stuff I know personally. Like my home state, Åland, and the places I've been to and remembered well. But about me being able to represent my entire country? I don't think so. I'll leave the generalities to those that feel like it. I could be imbecile. But I'll try not to show it if I am. :)

Much of this comes courtesy of American media talking heads, most of whom have been taught that everything American has to be somehow second-rate or wrong-headed or just plain stupid.
Are you sure? Americans are probably the least likely people in the Western Hemisphere to denigrate their own national identity. See my post above.

I agree that due to the export of American media, everything done by Americans seems to be louder.

What and all teh european countries dont have average joes? Oh and the average person in the US has at least a high school diploma and has a decent life.
So does the average person in Europe.

American culture has always been focused inward. There's still a pretty serious isolationist streak in many Americans. They don't care about Europe or the rest of the world because they don't have to. That's their choice.
This is surely not the case. Most Americans support the current foreign policy, which is anything but isolationist.

Lesse you back up that assertion, Brian.
It's probably true, given that the planet is largely populated by über-conservative Muslims, and various other backwards theists.

It's rather embarrassing for a the people of a developed country (with an education system) to believe so much in creationism.

If Americans were stupid we wouldn't have the best universities in the world, woldn't dominate the Nobel Prizes in the sciences, wouldn't develop thousands of new technologies and products every year, and we definitely wouldn't be a major participant in almost all types of international research.

Seeing how big your population is, i'd hope there'd be some accomplishments!

Uhmm... yeah, i can't really say that the netherlands seriously dominate in any of those things, but yeah.. i think seeing as were only around 17 million people in total that sort of makes up for it. For the small population that we are, we're doing pretty well

So, determining that the world is round, finding Pi to the 5th decimal (better than the Greeks, did, I think), and having a 14,000 mile road system while Europe was still at the 'dirt track' period for the most part, not to mention a buerocracy to rival the Chinese means that they have an 'inferior legacy' just becaus a bunch of Spaniards decided to burn it down and use it to build rather ugly houses?
Lovely.

I think Heron means the ancient Greeks left a greater mark on Western civilization than the Native Americans did, which is absolutely true. The West has only had contact with the Native Americans for 400 years, of which about 390 of which were spent marginalizing them rather than learning from them.

The West owes its cultural and scientific foundation primarily to the Greeks and Romans and not the Native Americans.

Not to mention all of the immigrants that don't bother to speak English all of the time makes us feel like we're over seas.

you win. / and i never said i'm not in love with the country. i am.

Just going to jump in a second time and say something...
So, determining that the world is round, finding Pi to the 5th decimal (better than the Greeks, did, I think), and having a 14,000 mile road system while Europe was still at the 'dirt track' period for the most part, not to mention a buerocracy to rival the Chinese means that they have an 'inferior legacy' just becaus a bunch of Spaniards decided to burn it down and use it to build rather ugly houses?
Lovely.

Those things can be found within the borders of the USA, can they?

(serious question. I assume you're talking about Incan/Mayan/Aztec civilisations, but I don't actually know)

and anyway, if they didn't have an inferior legacy, why are the Greeks so much more widely known and respected. Also, democracy.

I think Heron means the ancient Greeks left a greater mark on Western civilization than the Native Americans did, which is absolutely true. The West has only had contact with the Native Americans for 400 years, of which about 390 of which were spent marginalizing them rather than learning from them.

The West owes its cultural and scientific foundation primarily to the Greeks and Romans and not the Native Americans.

Yeah, that's what I meant :)

This is surely not the case. Most Americans support the current foreign policy, which is anything but isolationist.

Not exactly. There's a big isolationist backlash that's occuring right now, and its only going to get strong as the bodies pile up in Iraq. Americans always tend to fall back on isolationism when things don't go well with out foreign policy.

Vegetarianistica']you win. / and i never said i'm not in love with the country. i am.
I didn't know this was a competition! Anyhow, never said you weren't in love with the country.

Sorry if it came off that way.

Those things can be found within the borders of the USA, can they?

(serious question. I assume you're talking about Incan/Mayan/Aztec civilisations, but I don't actually know)

and anyway, if they didn't have an inferior legacy, why are the Greeks so much more widely known and respected. Also, democracy.
There are a few Aztec ruins in the southern states, but you did say 'any indigenous American population.', assuming 'America' means the continients. If you want to stick to North America, then I could point out several Indian nations which had some quite well developed political policies, even the occasional 'democracy'-esque establishment.

The greeks are better known because the Spanish didnt make a concentrated effort to wipe out the civilization. Also, brain surgery WITHOUT metal tools.

Because the implication is that because 50% of Americans believe in creationism (even if that's true) we must be stupid is ridiculous. People's religious beliefs have nothing to do with their inherent intelligence or education.

Religous beliefs which are theological and cannot be proved or disproved: no effect on intelligence.

Sticking one's fingers in one's ears and shouting "lalala, I can't here you and your nasty evidence": good indication of intelligence (or otherwise)

and anyway, if they didn't have an inferior legacy, why are the Greeks so much more widely known and respected. Also, democracy.
Because the Europeans decided that the Americans were all backwards, stupid and completely ignorant of the outside world. They then proceeded to introduce the "savages" to their Brilliant European society, cultural values and sciences by raping the people/land/animals and rushing back to Europe so they could brag to their friends about how well travelled they were.

And, as to your earlier comment regarding country size, say I were to tour France, Italy, Germany, and the UK and cover every square inch of that terrirory, I'd only have hit a bit over 1/8th of the territory covered by the US.

Not exactly. There's a big isolationist backlash that's occuring right now, and its only going to get strong as the bodies pile up in Iraq.
How do you know this? Just two days ago Eutrusca posted evidence that 57% of Americans support military action against Iran.

There are a few Aztec ruins in the southern states, but you did say 'any indigenous American population.', assuming 'America' means the continients. If you want to stick to North America, then I could point out several Indian nations which had some quite well developed political policies, even the occasional 'democracy'-esque establishment.
I don't get the impression that the bulk of the discussion about "America" hereabouts includes Mexico and Canada, somehow.

brain surgery WITHOUT metal tools.

hmm.. what was used?

Those things can be found within the borders of the USA, can they?

(serious question. I assume you're talking about Incan/Mayan/Aztec civilisations, but I don't actually know)

and anyway, if they didn't have an inferior legacy, why are the Greeks so much more widely known and respected. Also, democracy.

Most of the Incan, Mayan, and Aztec legacies didn't survive because a bunch of Europeans came over and annihilated them. Wow Europeans killed a group a natives without reason aside from expansion too? Amazing I thought America was the only one who could be guilty of that..

Greek Democracy failed as fast as it was started and brought into rule a bunch of tyrants. Not to mention calling it 'Greek Democracy' blows it out of porportion considering Athens was the only city state to implement it. Representive Democracy pwns so to speek.

WELL, i'm outta here.. off to an "authentic american dog sled race" here in the great city of Duluth, MN. !!! i'll tell the dogs you all say "hi".. :D what a wonderful country!!

Vegetarianistica']hmm.. what was used?
Flint and bronze, though I think they only removed portions of the skull rather than actually cutting the brain.

Vegetarianistica']WELL, i'm outta here.. off to an "authentic american dog sled race" here in the great city of Duluth, MN. !!! i'll tell the dogs you all say "hi".. :D what a wonderful country!!
Not the World Authentic Dog Sled Race, like the baseball and Australian Football In Body Armour leagues?

Most of the Incan, Mayan, and Aztec legacies didn't survive because a bunch of Europeans came over and annihilated them. Wow Europeans killed a group a natives without reason aside from expansion too? Amazing I thought America was the only one who could be guilty of that...

The Inca were destroyed by the Europeans, but the Maya were already effectively gone and the Aztecs were permanently in decline...they contributed nothing to the technology or cultural development of Central America; anything the Aztecs had they stole from other civilizations.

The Inca were destroyed by the Europeans, but the Maya were already effectively gone and the Aztecs were permanently in decline...they contributed nothing to the technology or cultural development of Central America; anything the Aztecs had they stole from other civilizations.
The Mayans, primarily.

anything the Aztecs had they stole from other civilizations.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Hell, the entirety of Rome from the day it was founded stole from every civilisation it touched. Namely Greece who we can say stole from the 'Cretes' and the Persians.

Civilisation is just one big looting spree.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Hell, the entirety of Rome from the day it was founded stole from every civilisation it touched. Namely Greece who we can say stole from the 'Cretes' and the Persians.

Civilisation is just one big looting spree.

Yeah, but they were even worse. They literally developed nothing new; unlike the Romans who revolutionized archtecture/urban planning/warfare or the Inca who developed one of the largest paved road networks over the roughest terrain in the world, or even the Maya who were leaps and bounds ahead of Europeans in mathematics, the Aztecs actually developed no significant new technology.

That is an entirely true proposition.

Roffleophagus.

It's the melting pot of America. Sure, they may have the most expensive universities, and hte most nobel peace prize winners, but most of them are because of people from other places drawn to America, the 'land of opportunity'. It's North America's aspect of drawing cultures together to make a conglomerate of the smart, and the stupid.

The Inca were destroyed by the Europeans, but the Maya were already effectively gone and the Aztecs were permanently in decline...they contributed nothing to the technology or cultural development of Central America; anything the Aztecs had they stole from other civilizations.

They were a warrior group of Nahuatl speaking people, so its no wonder that they used their only asset, their warriors, to take over the rest.

wow is it just me or has this thread gone way off topic?

wow is it just me or has this thread gone way off topic?

It's not just you, or maybe it's just some of us, but i think this thread has gone way off topic

If you were intelligent 50% of you wouldn't believe in Creationism.;)
if you were intelligent, you would know it is actually 39%

It's not just you, or maybe it's just some of us, but i think this thread has gone way off topic
Who was it brought up the pre-Columbian Central Americans in the first place? Was he merely trying to co-opt them in order to argue that America does too have an innate culture, and if so, is he the sort of person who's likely to start bitching about wetbacks as soon as he sees a Hispanic?

Not the World Authentic Dog Sled Race, like the baseball and Australian Football In Body Armour leagues?

you got me there that's great. holy shit you made me look like the ass i am even more than i do already. anyway, it's the Beargrease.. 300-odd miles through the northern wilderness over 3-4 days. 12-dog teams of Alaskan huskies. ...it starts about a mile from my house, so. what the hell.

Vegetarianistica']you got me there that's great. holy shit you made me look like the ass i am even more than i do already. anyway, it's the Beargrease.. 300-odd miles through the northern wilderness over 3-4 days. 12-dog teams of Alaskan huskies. ...it starts about a mile from my house, so. what the hell.
I wasn't taking a poke: it always strikes me as a bit odd that there's a World Series with (I think) just the one team from outside of the 'States, though.
The dog race sounds fun. If it is starting nearby, I'd imagine it's going to be worth a look.

I wasn't taking a poke: it always strikes me as a bit odd that there's a World Series with (I think) just the one team from outside of the 'States, though.
The dog race sounds fun. If it is starting nearby, I'd imagine it's going to be worth a look.

ohh! hmmm.. world series.. yeah, it's one of those things. sounds pretty important. a little too important! / and yeah i hung out at the dog sled race for 2 hours.. pretty cold but super amazingly fun. it was my first one and i actually got to stand on the brake of one of the sleds while its owner untangled her dogs. neat!

Vegetarianistica']ohh! hmmm.. world series.. yeah, it's one of those things. sounds pretty important. a little too important! / and yeah i hung out at the dog sled race for 2 hours.. pretty cold but super amazingly fun. it was my first one and i actually got to stand on the brake of one of the sleds while its owner untangled her dogs. neat!
I suppose they can't call it the US series without offending the Canadian team, but it's still a bit grandiose...
That's pretty cool.

I love lamp.

still a bit grandiose...

what's America without it aey.

I love lamp.

that xtian organization!? wow. little off-topic, but we can fit it in. :p

No really, I looove lamp

I love lamp.
Turn your lovelamp on?

I find most of the Americans I encounter on the "net" at least to be no better or worse than anyone else. Plus, if it wasn't for the American right wing, I'd have to learn chinese or Russian to have anybody to argue with. I think its the grinning idiot extroverts that appear on MTV that give them such a bad reputation.

That being said, I havent been there, so theres a possibility that the slice that learned to type and don't think the internet is the tool of the devil are in the minority.

Turn your lovelamp on?

are you offering or..

Vegetarianistica']are you offering or..
It's a Grateful Dead song.
Still, if she isn't busy, why not?

It's a Grateful Dead song.
Still, if she isn't busy, why not?

are you an American pig... or a foreign pig? :D

Vegetarianistica']are you an American pig... or a foreign pig? :D
Foreign pig.

Foreign pig.

damn foreign pigs..

Vegetarianistica']The World According To America
http://www.welfarestate.com/map/

are Americans *actually* the most idiotic nation, or do we just talk more?

i've met some fairly idiotic people from all over the world.. however, my fellow Americans seem to be "the best" in that field. this is according to personal experience and according to people's opinions of Americans while i was in their countries.

is this a reflection of our corrupted education system, or just a reflection of what happens to minds corrupted by power? or what, exactly, is it.. ? and what might we Americans do to tame it (or is it far too late).. ??

I find that map vaguely offensive. Is Europe throwing minstrel-plays, now, too? :rolleyes:

I love lamp.

Yeah, there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident.

I find that map vaguely offensive. Is Europe throwing minstrel-plays, now, too?

uhhh.. yeah, it's meant to be offensive. Americans are known for it. hence the thread.

Vegetarianistica']uhhh.. yeah, it's meant to be offensive. Americans are known for it. hence the thread.

It also is libelly untrue. Especially given Europeans do the same.

It also is libelly untrue. Especially given Europeans do the same.

if it's untrue (the map you mean?), then why's it a stereotype of American mentality?

Vegetarianistica']if it's untrue (the map you mean?), then why's it a stereotype of American mentality?

It's a stereotype of how no one I know thinks. It may be true of our president and his best friends, but it's not true of me, nor of anyone I know personally. Ergo, I take offense. I suppose I could make a map of how Europe views the world, which has an much, if not more, fact backing it up.

Or you could just lighten up and up and stop whining. It's just a stupid map.:rolleyes:

I suppose I could make a map of how Europe views the world, which has an much, if not more, fact backing it up.

http://www.jigsawlounge.co.uk/kungfu/world/world-london.html

Vegetarianistica']http://www.jigsawlounge.co.uk/kungfu/world/world-london.html

My map would include more than London, though. :p

My map would include more than London, though. :p

so would mine.. and don't doubt it ;)

Vegetarianistica']The World According To America
http://www.welfarestate.com/map/

Huh....When I saw that 2-3 years ago it was "The World According to George W. Bush"

(EDIT: Huh...went to the other site. Guess it was a spin-off. Not much of one.)

I suppose I could make a map of how Europe views the world, which has an much, if not more, fact backing it up.
Well then - chop-chop! Your admiring public awaits.

Or are you just gonna sit back and whine all night?

Or are you just gonna sit back and whine all night?

well, he came, he saw, he whined, i appeased him ..then silence..

Well then - chop-chop! Your admiring public awaits.

Or are you just gonna sit back and whine all night?

Stop talking to me and maybe I'll get it done, already! Now, where's my red crayon....

Vegetarianistica']well, he came, he saw, he whined, i appeased him ..then silence..
I say he shouldn't get to have his cake and eat it too.

I want to see his idea of knee-slapping satire.

But I expect I'll have to wait a long time to witness it.

Stop talking to me and maybe I'll get it done, already! Now, where's my red crayon....
It's in the brush menu for Photoshop.

C'mon, we ain't got all night...

It's in the brush menu for Photoshop.

C'mon, we ain't got all night...

lots of red. and yeah, hey, i've got school in the morning so hurry it up there, artiste. red here, there, and everywhere.. how hard can it be!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/Jagdraben/worldaccordingtoeurotrash.jpg

Enjoy! ;)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/Jagdraben/worldaccordingtoeurotrash.jpg

Enjoy! ;)

Gah! That's hardly legible. Dammit....

Gah! That's hardly legible. Dammit....

hey, how do i upload pix ?

Vegetarianistica']hey, how do i upload pix ?

With great care? :confused:

all i can read on the map is Paris.. something. looks good though.. just can't read it..

Yeah... it came out too small when I uploaded it.

How do you know this? Just two days ago Eutrusca posted evidence that 57% of Americans support military action against Iran.

Polls are a snapshot in time. Not having seen that poll I can't tell you if it's indicative of anything or not.

I'm going by my conversations with people and what I read on a daily basis.

If the President made the determination that he wanted to go into Iran to take out their nuclear weapons programs and started ramping up like we did with Iraq, I can almost guarantee he wouldn't have the votes in Congress or the support of a majority of America to do it. No one is going to believe that argument now. They're going to say "we've got to deal with our own problems". It's a typical reaction.

Polls are a snapshot in time.

and usually biased one way or another.

ps: i've always wondered why DC has such high crime.. ?

Vegetarianistica']and usually biased one way or another.

ps: i've always wondered why DC has such high crime.. ?

It's not as bad as it was back during the late 80s and early 90s. There was a drug war going on.

I've only ever had one issue in town - some guy tried to pickpocket me on the metro. I caught him though. I told him to pick a tourist next time.

It's not as bad as it was back during the late 80s and early 90s. There was a drug war going on. I've only ever had one issue in town - some guy tried to pickpocket me on the metro. I caught him though. I told him to pick a tourist next time.

oh, okay. i visited in like *?* 1991 or something. it was fairly upsetting to be in our grand capital and then see it was in a shambles. but anyway i'm glad it's better now. ..don't you love not being a tourist in a tourist town!