NationStates Jolt Archive

Need your opinions on this ...

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_GRP,,00.html?ESRC=soldiertech.nl

... or ...

http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2520/globalresponsepistol7ki.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I don't know. If I was going to spend a lot of cash on a 1911, I'd probably go with a Kimber. But that's just me. :)

Nice.

$2,200 nice? no.

I am a huge 1911 fan, had a sig style, now a Kimber(used).

I am told I should like the Kimber better..I dont.

Now, I would have preffered more facts in the article(I didnt follow all the links), but if you are a fan of the 1911 ergonomics...which I am--it looks like a winner.

With reporting 50,000 rounds no malfunctions(impressive)

I am unimpressed by SpecOp usage(those guys use all kinds of stuff), no if it was univerally adopted by the community...then that would impress me.

It looks like a very good gun.

BUT

I am not into wet works, I have no need of a gun that is that expensive---I need my weapon to work for one engagement....maybe.

I need my gun to work at the range.....

I can get by with a purchase under a $1000/ certainly under $2000

So for the average joe shooter, working stiff....no thanks, too rich for my blood.

Nice.

$2,200 nice? no.
Yes, it's a bit pricey, but the specs look as though it might be worth it.

I know i'm going to get branded a heretic.


But i have no desire to purchase an M1911

I own a .45 yes, but its what i'm more comfortable with.

Sig Sauer P220

Yes, it's a bit pricey, but the specs look as though it might be worth it.

I just can't ever see spending over a thousand on a pistol, all frills included. It seems to me that cost effectiveness takes a nose dive after that point, or even more so than it was to that point.

I agree with Chellis--unless you have a need of such a weapon, or are wealthy enough to not care there is no real reason to purchase such an expensive weapon.

Give it ten years and pick one up for a third of that cost.

I agree with Chellis--unless you have a need of such a weapon, or are wealthy enough to not care there is no real reason to purchase such an expensive weapon.

Give it ten years and pick one up for a third of that cost.

Guns don't Depriciate like cars.

I agree with Chellis--unless you have a need of such a weapon, or are wealthy enough to not care there is no real reason to purchase such an expensive weapon.

Give it ten years and pick one up for a third of that cost.
I'm not likely to be around that much longer.

Here's what impresses me: "When I asked him if he would have any hesitation about carrying the Nighthawk GRP as a concealed carry gun for self protection, Mr. Clapp responded that he would have no hesitation whatsoever in that regard."

That is the use to which I intend to put any pistol I buy.

I'm not likely to be around that much longer.

Here's what impresses me: "When I asked him if he would have any hesitation about carrying the Nighthawk GRP as a concealed carry gun for self protection, Mr. Clapp responded that he would have no hesitation whatsoever in that regard."

That is the use to which I intend to put any pistol I buy.
Why? Feel any particular threats to your safety? :confused:

Why? Feel any particular threats to your safety? :confused:
I think he was refering to his age.

Guns don't Depriciate like cars.

Yes they do.

I think he was refering to his age.
How would that be relevant to putting a pistol to use? :p Unless he wants it before he goes, but still, why the need?

I'm not likely to be around that much longer.

Here's what impresses me: "When I asked him if he would have any hesitation about carrying the Nighthawk GRP as a concealed carry gun for self protection, Mr. Clapp responded that he would have no hesitation whatsoever in that regard."

That is the use to which I intend to put any pistol I buy.


OK, but would you feel unsafe with a Sig Sauer P220? Mentioned by the earlier poster? Nice weapon by the way.

I know I wouldnt feel unsafe with that weapon.

I could run down a list but you see my point, there are plenty of weapons for the MAYBE I MIGHT be in a gun battle, versus the COMBAT side arm.

I appreciate your statement, but I believe there are plenty of testimonials from wet workers about any number of weapons--including Glocks, and I would rather carry a knife to gun fight, really I would.

I especially wouldn't spend $2000+ on a CCP.

You most likely won't even use a CCP, and if you end up actually using it, you will go through a couple rounds most likely, unless its like a bank robbery or hostage situation... and don't be getting any ideas.

I would, and actually plan to buy a makarov. While there is no way in hell I will be getting a CC permit in California, simple impossibility, I would carry it if I could. Reliable, cheap, and will get the job done. If you really want, just buy a regular 1911. Didn't you read the article? This is a competitor gun, not a gun thats worth it for someone who might put a few hundred rounds through a year.

Way out of my price-rance, but nice... I've always wanted a model 1911, since I was a kid at least, even if it's not very practical in my line of work... for me, it's best to keep a cheap, throwaway .22 short for emergency purposes that won't wake the dead when fired.. :p

I especially wouldn't spend $2000+ on a CCP.

You most likely won't even use a CCP, and if you end up actually using it, you will go through a couple rounds most likely, unless its like a bank robbery or hostage situation... and don't be getting any ideas.

I would, and actually plan to buy a makarov. While there is no way in hell I will be getting a CC permit in California, simple impossibility, I would carry it if I could. Reliable, cheap, and will get the job done. If you really want, just buy a regular 1911. Didn't you read the article? This is a competitor gun, not a gun thats worth it for someone who might put a few hundred rounds through a year.


A Makarov, a 9x18mm Makarov?!? A weapon that even the Russians have realized is underpowered?

Originally Posted by Of the council of clan
Guns don't Depriciate like cars.

Yes they do.

Some, not all, firearms may depreciate some depending on their condition, but no where near the level of cars.

You buy a High Point, it'll depriciate, because its a piece of shit.


Some weapons, when properly cared for, can actually Appreciate in value.


Especially a Custom handcrafted weapon like the one that is in the OP of this thread.

2200 bucks now, will probably be 3000 or more later on(in like 10 years).

You buy a High Point, it'll depriciate, because its a piece of shit.


Some weapons, when properly cared for, can actually Appreciate in value.


Especially a Custom handcrafted weapon like the one that is in the OP of this thread.

2200 bucks now, will probably be 3000 or more later on(in like 10 years).

Except they will keep making these guns, and they will become the new high quality standard.

The market will slowly grow with similar, and possibly better types.

Assuming it will remain the best is pure fallacy. Assuming it will retain costs without being best, is as well fallacy.

A Makarov, a 9x18mm Makarov?!? A weapon that even the Russians have realized is underpowered?

This is a CCP.

The vast majority of people you would potentially have to defend yourself from are unarmoured criminals.

The majority of crimes stopped by CCP holders, don't involve actual shooting.

In the incredibly rare situation where Eut needs to pull the gun and shoot, I am sure he would be able to put down an unarmoured target with 9x18mm, especially if its using JHP.

They make AP bullets in 9x18mm too, if you are really worried about armoured targets. But remember, this is a CCP weapon.

My 2p.

Beauty gun. Wouldn't buy it unless it was 'sterile' and I had a bit of off-book work to do.

A CCW needs to be relatively small, reliable, powerful and inexpensive enough for the cops to keep when they take it away after an incident.

No way would I drop 2K for a CCW - no matter how much I liked the gun.
Depending on the clothes, I carry either a $400 NAA Guardian .32acp (under powered, but works in bike shorts) or a Ruger SP101 .357 snubby (also about $400 street)

I'd pay up to $700 or so for a tricked out .45 but not much more for a CCW.

That said, I DID drop $1500 for a pistol once - a Freedom Arms .454 Casull. After owning it for 10 years I sold it for $1500. :D

Don't do it Eut!

Aren't you old folks supposed to wiser?

This is a CCP.

The vast majority of people you would potentially have to defend yourself from are unarmoured criminals.

The majority of crimes stopped by CCP holders, don't involve actual shooting.

In the incredibly rare situation where Eut needs to pull the gun and shoot, I am sure he would be able to put down an unarmoured target with 9x18mm, especially if its using JHP.

They make AP bullets in 9x18mm too, if you are really worried about armoured targets. But remember, this is a CCP weapon.


no its not about armor penetration, but kinectic energy. a 9x18mm does not have a lot of STOPPING power.

What good is shooting someone when they don't drop after the first shot. You can rave about how accurate you are and whatever, but in a high stress situation like pulling a gun on someone, you may not remember the fundementals and might only hit him in the arm, or somewhere on the torso where it isn't a first shot kill. For that very reason is why i carry a .45, with Hydrashock Hollow points. It'll knock the Bitch down. I don't care where i hit him its going to do more to incapacitate someone than an underpowered 9mm round.


Figure the person you pull it on is a drug addict, and is on something, your going to at least want Hollowpoint rounds since they have more stopping power against unarmored targets. That and they make nice and big holes.

(imagine a .45 caliber bullet increasing in size by 25% or more upon impact. Bigger hole. More chance of hitting something vital, end of story.

Figure the person you pull it on is a drug addict, and is on something, your going to at least want Hollowpoint rounds since they have more stopping power against unarmored targets. That and they make nice and big holes.

(imagine a .45 caliber bullet increasing in size by 25% or more upon impact. Bigger hole. More chance of hitting something vital, end of story.

That's great, if you don't mind waking every soul within a half mile of wherever you're firing it, not to mention leaving a mess near wherever you use it... no thanks, there. A .22 or .25 hits plenty hard from close range, which is the likely scenario, and will go unnoticed nine times out of ten unless you have company nearby.. not to mention easily fitting in a coat pocket.. but whatever works for the individual is always best I guess..

Need your opinions on this ...

I own a Kimber Custom II and a Colt M1991 Compact. I like them both. The only advantage that a SIG has is that it's easier to take apart to clean. You don't have to worry about that spring flying across the room when you undo the front bushing.

But if you really want to spend some money, go to Wilson Arms or Les Bauer. They can do the job right and charge accordingly.

Some, not all, firearms may depreciate some depending on their condition, but no where near the level of cars.

Well, of course.
The weapon, the number produced the amount still on the market, the number of laws which make it easy or difficult to obtain.

But on the whole, guns go down in price--until you hit the point where they begin to creep up--that is after the 20 year mark, for any specific production run.

But anyone who has ever walked into a gun show or pawn shop knows that Guns on the whole go down in value--unless you arent smart enough to hunt for bargains. And, yeah, smart enough.

no its not about armor penetration, but kinectic energy. a 9x18mm does not have a lot of STOPPING power.

What good is shooting someone when they don't drop after the first shot. You can rave about how accurate you are and whatever, but in a high stress situation like pulling a gun on someone, you may not remember the fundementals and might only hit him in the arm, or somewhere on the torso where it isn't a first shot kill. For that very reason is why i carry a .45, with Hydrashock Hollow points. It'll knock the Bitch down. I don't care where i hit him its going to do more to incapacitate someone than an underpowered 9mm round.


Figure the person you pull it on is a drug addict, and is on something, your going to at least want Hollowpoint rounds since they have more stopping power against unarmored targets. That and they make nice and big holes.

(imagine a .45 caliber bullet increasing in size by 25% or more upon impact. Bigger hole. More chance of hitting something vital, end of story.

They make fireball loads of 9x18mm. They make JHP 9x18mm.

It has enough stopping power with JHP. I don't care what drugs you are on, if you get shot with a 9x18mm JHP you won't be much of a threat.

And Eut should be smart enough to double tap.

That's great, if you don't mind waking every soul within a half mile of wherever you're firing it, not to mention leaving a mess near wherever you use it... no thanks, there. A .22 or .25 hits plenty hard from close range, which is the likely scenario, and will go unnoticed nine times out of ten unless you have company nearby.. not to mention easily fitting in a coat pocket.. but whatever works for the individual is always best I guess..
Which is why I'm not too worried about my .32acp. I put 60gr JHPs through it at about 1100fps. They expand to about .55 in wet paper wit 13" penetration.

However, unless you are using exotics I still wouldn't use a .22/.25 for CCW unless I had no other option (which has, in fact, been the case a couple of times)

My favorite CCW is an "Officers" model lower mated to a "Commanter (4") Upper - giving superior balance and concealability over either a Govt model or a "normal" officer's model. Colt offered this config as a factory option for a couple of years in the '90s. Another advantage of the 4" upper is the ability to use standard bushings and non-fitted replacement barrels, allowing you to add accessories or dispose of problematic barrels as needed.

Add a set of Crimson Trace grip panels and you've got the best of 3 worlds.

IMO anyway... ;)

My favorite CCW is an "Officers" model lower mated to a "Commanter (4") Upper - giving superior balance and concealability over either a Govt model or a "normal" officer's model. Colt offered this config as a factory option for a couple of years in the '90s. Another advantage of the 4" upper is the ability to use standard bushings and non-fitted replacement barrels, allowing you to add accessories or dispose of problematic barrels as needed.

Add a set of Crimson Trace grip panels and you've got the best of 3 worlds.

IMO anyway... ;)
Is this the same as the M1991 Compact model that I own? I bought it used, so I don't know what the history of the model is. I can tell you that the slide is stamped COMPACT on one side and M1991A on the other.

It is a great size to carry.

On the one hand, I think it would be a bit much (price-wise) for what you need it to do.

On the other, I think it would make a very nice heirloom!

Is this the same as the M1991 Compact model that I own? I bought it used, so I don't know what the history of the model is. I can tell you that the slide is stamped COMPACT on one side and M1991A on the other.

It is a great size to carry.
Might be. There were some naming issuse IIRC. (edit: if yours is a Springfield, then Yes. - see following post with images)

If it's a 6+1 lower (using factory mags) and a 4.25" upper with a standard bushing (rather than a bushingless/flared bbl, then probably.

I've built a couple and seen the commercial variants (The Colt CCO/XO, & Springfield) Best all around .45 IMO.

snip

Get rid of your Kimber and go find yourself a nice Springfield 1911a1. One thing I noticed about the Kimber is it seems to have a habit of jamming up. I know a few people who have em for competition shooting and they generally have 1-2 jams in a cource. My springfield has only jammed 2 times in a span of 1.2 seasons of competition shooting. The reason for the jam was my not putting the mag in fully. Other than that, it will eat any kind of .45 ammo I put through it. Oh, FYI... The prices vary on those from 599 to 750.

Get rid of your Kimber and go find yourself a nice Springfield 1911a1. One thing I noticed about the Kimber is it seems to have a habit of jamming up. I know a few people who have em for competition shooting and they generally have 1-2 jams in a cource. My springfield has only jammed 2 times in a span of 1.2 seasons of competition shooting. The reason for the jam was my not putting the mag in fully. Other than that, it will eat any kind of .45 ammo I put through it. Oh, FYI... The prices vary on those from 599 to 750.
http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/Products.jpghttp://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistolcompare/compactC.jpg

:D