NationStates Jolt Archive

What do you think will be the next animal to advance? Dogs? Elephants? Octopi? Will they advance? Are humans stopping their ability to advance? Can they advance?

I personally favor elephants. They have an interesting social structue, live quit a long life already, inspect elephant bones they find, have a complex language, and can paint, and if they had hands, they might be able to learn sign language like Koko!

The noble squid. It's got limbs capable of manipulating tools. It's more gregarious than the octopus, so it's more likely to develop a sophisticated language based on color and pattern changes on it's skin.

Sea Otter.

The noble squid. It's got limbs capable of manipulating tools. It's more gregarious than the octopus, so it's more likely to develop a sophisticated language based on color and pattern changes on it's skin.
Damn I should've made it Octopus/Squid.

Ants. *nod*

Once mankind is wiped out, ants will develop into the new dominant life form on the planet.

I can't find the "threadstarter doesn't understand that evolution doesn't work like that" option.

Evolution is not a process of advancing to civilisation. It's a process of adapting to suit your environment. I.e. when trees started getting taller (due to changing climates or whatever), giraffes with longer necks started becoming more successful than the rest, and thus average necks became longer. Giraffes did not just become more intelligent and civilised or anything.

I can't find the "threadstarter doesn't understand that evolution doesn't work like that" option.

Evolution is not a process of advancing to civilisation. It's a process of adapting to suit your environment. I.e. when trees started getting taller (due to changing climates or whatever), giraffes with longer necks started becoming more successful than the rest, and thus average necks became longer. Giraffes did not just become more intelligent and civilised or anything.
Humans did not need to advance to our current state. If we can, other animals can as well. I'll have to sit back and call you a fascist...or maybe funsucker.

I can't find the "threadstarter doesn't understand that evolution doesn't work like that" option.

Evolution is not a process of advancing to civilisation. It's a process of adapting to suit your environment. I.e. when trees started getting taller (due to changing climates or whatever), giraffes with longer necks started becoming more successful than the rest, and thus average necks became longer. Giraffes did not just become more intelligent and civilised or anything.
Still, that does not rule out the possibility that another creature could adapt to their enviroment by reaching a human-civilization level. We did.

While this is probably unlikley to happen, I agree with lunatic goofballs that if it did happen, it would happen to ants. They are adaptable, have organized social structures, communicate between one another, build buildings, fight wars with other colonies...really, they kinda are already there.

Humans did not need to advance to our current state. If we can, other animals can as well. I'll have to sit back and call you a fascist...or maybe funsucker.

Humans do need civilisation. Not as an advancement, but just because without it, we would not be able to survive, considering how lacking our physical abilities are compared to other animals. As we developed intelligence, the more intelligent started to survive better than the physically superior, and thus, one's ability to breed did not depend on brawn or resilience, but on thinking. As this type of person became more prevalent, they used their intelligence to invent things that would make up for their other weaknesses.

I suppose I'll just have to sit back and call you a person who not only doesn't understand, but refuses to.

Unless cats have become retarded and are disadvancing rather quickly.


~Bow down before the almighty Basteth !~

Ants. *nod*

Once mankind is wiped out, ants will develop into the new dominant life form on the planet.


Aren't they allready ?

I can't find the "threadstarter doesn't understand that evolution doesn't work like that" option.

Evolution is not a process of advancing to civilisation. It's a process of adapting to suit your environment. I.e. when trees started getting taller (due to changing climates or whatever), giraffes with longer necks started becoming more successful than the rest, and thus average necks became longer. Giraffes did not just become more intelligent and civilised or anything.

Natural selection favours, as you say, the most successful traits. I agree civilization isn't inevitable, but it's been insanely effective in making humans successful in the Darwinian sense. It's theoretically very possible for a second advanced species to arise.

At the same time, I do not believe that there is sufficient time leftfor other species to advance much. If the current pattern continues, our actions will wipe out most other species relatively soon. (I'm guessing one thousand years, optimistically.)

red panda! (ailurus fulgens, if they don't become extinct along with ourselves. they have thumbs and use them intelligently and are vegitarians by choice, not physiology)
after them limurs (which are classified as distant primates)

=^^=
.../\...

Aren't they allready ?
You might have something there. I just read on wikipedia that among other things, ants cultivate fungus. Perhaps ants should be recognized as an advanced species. When ants start making art, then I'll have to categorize them as advanced...tell me they've done this already.

No other creature will develop to a human level, because there are already humans. The niche of technologically advanced, civilized creature that rules the world won't be opened up for another race to take over unless Humans were to die out.
And should that happen, the dominant species will be Killer Whales. The dolphins will be destroyed for their heresy, and all the world will be again plunged beneath the depths for the pleasure of the Universe's noblest creature.
ALL HAIL, KILLER WHALE JESUS!

It'll be the squid, which will give rise to the following scenario about 200 million years from now. ...

"My new theory shows that we evolved over time from more primitive aquatic ancestors."

"Blasphemy! Great Squiddicus created us in his own image! Stone the sinner!"

I remember seeing something about this on the Discovery Channel. They decided that if humans got up and left the planet in a bunch of spaceships, the next dominant species would be the squid, who would learn to live on land. This of course would take several hundred million years, so no guarantees.

What do you think will be the next animal to advance? Dogs? Elephants? Octopi? Will they advance? Are humans stopping their ability to advance? Can they advance?

I personally favor elephants. They have an interesting social structue, live quit a long life already, inspect elephant bones they find, have a complex language, and can paint, and if they had hands, they might be able to learn sign language like Koko!

No animals will advance because humans have basically short circuited that part of evolution when they became top dogs. Or top humans, as the case may be.

Ants. *nod* Once mankind is wiped out, ants will develop into the new dominant life form on the planet.

i say termites. read a whole book about them by Johann Marais (?). they have underground gardens tended by gardeners, specialized warriors, hunters, daycare, a fantastic chemical language, and _They Never Sleep_!

You might have something there. I just read on wikipedia that among other things, ants cultivate fungus. Perhaps ants should be recognized as an advanced species. When ants start making art, then I'll have to categorize them as advanced...tell me they've done this already.

Depends on what you call art, I wouldn't call half of what is in musea art.

Termites and ants have a lot going for them, true. They already do some pretty trippy stuff.

At the same time, though, I don't think they'll ever become large-scale tool users. I've read that too small a creature can't properly control fire, which is the basis for metalworking. I don't think they could ever become dominant, but I can kind of accept that might eventually be sentient. The small brain is an obstacle, sure, but isn't there some kind of collective mind thing? (Or have I just been watching too much "Space" channel?)

Termites and ants have a lot going for them, true. They already do some pretty trippy stuff.

At the same time, though, I don't think they'll ever become large-scale tool users. I've read that too small a creature can't properly control fire, which is the basis for metalworking. I don't think they could ever become dominant, but I can kind of accept that might eventually be sentient. The small brain is an obstacle, sure, but isn't there some kind of collective mind thing? (Or have I just been watching too much "Space" channel?)
Communism applied perfectly.

Perhaps with our help and stopping our screwing up of the world, they might all become advanced. Insects cant get much bigger or they would have to modify their structure.

Seeing as they're already considering reclassifying Chimps in the genus "Homo" I'm going with them.

Seeing as they're already considering reclassifying Chimps in the genus "Homo" I'm going with them.
Really?...wikis it...

EDIT: Indeed it is being discussed and gorillas are also being discussed.

Aren't they allready ?

Sshh... They're not ready to begin their war of conquest yet...

The Strawberry will evolve and grow legs.

EDIT: Indeed it is being discussed and gorillas are also being discussed.Gorillas? I don't want those morons in my Genus.

CATS

Cats fucking rock. That's why they'll advance.

CATS

Cats fucking rock. That's why they'll advance.Cat people are weird.

CATS

Cats fucking rock. That's why they'll advance.
All the breeds at once?
I doubt it.
Cats will perish!

I myself do not think another animal will advance for quite a while. I believe this because if humanity wasn't just an evolutionary fluke, then primates would be evolving into us constantly. There would be a long trail from homos sapiens down all the homos and reaching the apes, all alive today or at least evoving in our footsteps. The fact is humans advanced alone. Or ancestors came from the apes, but were different, something drove them up the ladder to become the dominent species on the planet, and no other animal seems to have that instinct. They are intelegent enough, and some are dexterous enough, but there is something missing, in my opinion.

Who says we're dominant?

What do you think will be the next animal to advance?

Generalites.

octopuses. they are the only animals besides humans who have cultivated gardens.

Generalites.
OGG SAY SMASH BASH AUFF!

WAsnt there a Docotr Who Episode where every one was changed inot cats or something like that and you could see Cat Milkmen

Other ant

Octopi seem to be progressing pretty well. Dolphins are too laid back and have no interest in creating. Octopi make gardens and homes, and use tools. Plus they're sooooo cute! :p

Horse.

Someone had to vote for them. Plus there was that part in Gulliver's Travels with the horse-people and the yahoos.

In conclusion, the horse.

I myself do not think another animal will advance for quite a while. I believe this because if humanity wasn't just an evolutionary fluke, then primates would be evolving into us constantly. There would be a long trail from homos sapiens down all the homos and reaching the apes, all alive today or at least evoving in our footsteps. The fact is humans advanced alone. Or ancestors came from the apes, but were different, something drove them up the ladder to become the dominent species on the planet, and no other animal seems to have that instinct. They are intelegent enough, and some are dexterous enough, but there is something missing, in my opinion.

That thing you say is missing...that is called an AK-47. Humans evoled and began to see themselves as superior, and killed off everything else. Take Cro-Magnon for example. These anatomical modern humans (looked just like H.sapiens) coexisted with the Neandertal for thousands of years. Many scientist believe, however, that at some point competiton increased, and Cro-Magnons took it upon themselves to kill off the Neandertals. Classic examle of evolution, but why kill off an entire race?

In my opinion, humans today will destroy everyform of life on this planet, toxify the atmosphere, pollute the seas, and then we will kill ourselves off with nuclear jihad. After a few million years, new life forms will arise that bear no genetic relation to modern day animals, and they will populate. The Matrix said it best: Humans are a virus, a disease, one that needs to be exterminated.....

In my opinion, humans today will destroy everyform of life on this planet

No. We'll kill lots of them, more than likely, but most of the insects will be around long after us. Especially cockroaches. And some deep-sea creatures.

We'll kill ourselves off too quickly to kill everything else first.

And there will be horses.

I don't think any other animal is going to advance 'like humans'. The closest you'd get to human civilzation would probably come from the other Great Apes. However, unless humans go extinct, there isn't really any room for another human-esque civilization to evolve.

Hive insects have the potential to develop sophisticated civilizations, given that they already have fairly complex societies, and can produce extravagent structures (ex. termite mounds). However, if any of these species evolved a higher intelligence, I don't think it would be in any way that could be properly compared with human civilization. Human societies are about individuals forming a community. Hive insects are more like a community forming an individual.

Octopodes are quite intelligent, but unless they're social - which I'm not sure they are - there is little drive for them to form communites that would eventually evolve into civilization.

Raccoons.

Dolphins are definitely not going to advance along the lines of human evolution. They know better.:D

I voted other, because

a) this poll is sort of pointless, both because it assumes that the same evolutionary pressures that pushed humans to sapience will happen to something else, and because the entire long-term, gradual, natural Earth and evolution paradigm is going the way of the dodo (NPI) now that humans are approaching singularity. Really, in almost all cases it makes sense that any biosphere only has time to evolve a single sapient species, since that species either eventually destroys itself, in which case it probably used something that destroyed everything else, or it transcends its organic roots and probably devours its planet of origin for dumb matter to convert into computronium.

b) If anything, it will be the squid. They're at least as smart and definitely more social than the octopus. They can communicate, associate, perform complex behaviors - they may even be self-aware.

red panda! (ailurus fulgens, if they don't become extinct along with ourselves. they have thumbs and use them intelligently and are vegitarians by choice, not physiology)

Pandas have to be the most retarted animal in the world. They're going extinct because they only have a few cubs in a lifetime and they have to spend most of the day eating because their stomachs are so inefficient. They might be vegetarians but their stomachs originally evolved to digest meat. If they suddenly make an astounding comeback more power to them, but I'm certianly not going to go out of my way to protect such a retartedly inefficitent animal.

Lemmings!
Or just plain old mice...haven't you read HG2G?

ok, the chance that any other animal will evolve like the humans did is extremly extremly small, but with humans, that we developed into what we are today is really amasing already seeing the odds of certain evolutionary things happening...
And, do people actually know how many types of humanoids (human-like creatures, that are closer to humans than to chimpanzees) came before us? 20 (found so far) and they all became extinct at one point or another. In the past few years they discovered one somewhere on one of the islands of indonesia. A lot of people think that humans evolved nicely from one step to the next, ie. from ape to human in a pretty little ladder like diagram, but that's not how it went at all.

I'd like to think that dolphins will evolve into something greater, they are said to be intelligent animals, so why not? (not looking at the chance of it actually happening)

(sorry, just had to say all that, on my why to becoming a biologist, hehe)

Once more I ask you: How can the Gods advance ?! ;-)

Once more I ask you: How can the Gods advance ?! ;-)

Well from a biological point of view, i would have to say that, if they reproduce like other creatures, that they would advance just the same way, hehe

I'm not concerned about other beings advancing up to the level of the humans. I'm worried about advancing TO THE LEVEL of other animals.

As per "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," the ranking of intelligent beings is
1. mice
2. dolphins
3. humans

Humans must work harder to at least reach the level of the dolphins! It'll take a lot of work because they're cute AND smart!

None. The world is changing and evolution now favors small and medium simple animals that can breed fast, adapt fast and are not smart enough to be considered intelligent. Animals like elephants have a slim chance of intelligence, but the will likely go extinct anyway.

None. The world is changing and evolution now favors small and medium simple animals that can breed fast, adapt fast and are not smart enough to be considered intelligent. Animals like elephants have a slim chance of intelligence, but the will likely go extinct anyway.
The question is, do the elephants need the intelligence? I mean, will it dramatically change their chance of survival. If not, then why put 'effort' into evolving into more intelligant animals

Pandas have to be the most retarted animal in the world. They're going extinct because they only have a few cubs in a lifetime and they have to spend most of the day eating because their stomachs are so inefficient. They might be vegetarians but their stomachs originally evolved to digest meat. If they suddenly make an astounding comeback more power to them, but I'm certianly not going to go out of my way to protect such a retartedly inefficitent animal.

Panda. (http://www.cs.wright.edu/~jlieh/panda%20bear.jpg)

Red panda. (http://www.trp.dundee.ac.uk/~tdixon/mammals/P4092759redpanda550.jpg)

Rather large difference.

Panda. (http://www.cs.wright.edu/~jlieh/panda%20bear.jpg)

Red panda. (http://www.trp.dundee.ac.uk/~tdixon/mammals/P4092759redpanda550.jpg)

Rather large difference.

But they both look really sweet and cute!

The Dolphins of course. Does anybody watch the Simpsons? They've aldeady taken over.:p

Felines. The way it should have been from the get-go.

Squids. I do not contradict The Discovery Channel. :eek:

Squids. I do not contradict The Discovery Channel. :eek:
Those are creepy :p :eek:

I will personally insure that no other animal is able to reach human intelligence.
I’ve got my eyes on you damn sign language learning monkeys.
Try to steal my specie's dominance of the planet and I will freak out and start killing everyone.

Sloths are well on their way to becoming the dominant species, they appear to have already discovered the two most important things in life...
"Sloths move only when necessary" and "as much as two thirds of a well-fed sloth's body-weight consists of the contents of its stomach" says Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloths).


Plus they look well intelligent...

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/7356/3toedsloth2ds.th.jpg (http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3toedsloth2ds.jpg)

If the onion says it, it msut be true:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28315
Dolphins.

Humans did not need to advance to our current state. If we can, other animals can as well. I'll have to sit back and call you a fascist...or maybe funsucker.

Actually, we did. Humans are a social animal, and as times changed, we needed to adapt our lifestyle to more and more efficient societies. Civilization is just a biproduct of this strive for efficiency. Don't tell the beaurocrats this, though.

To answer this question, I need to take a trip forward in time to the point at which either:
A) Humans are no more (left, died, spirited away, ascended, whatever)
B) The humans of the time are more 'hands off' and no longer dominate the ecosystem, keeping themselves in enclaves and allowing the rest of the world to 'get on with it' without worrying about what's happening in the wild. This includes no longer artificially supporting the populations of cuddly-looking creatures and close relatives, while being indiferent/hostile to the ones that are spiky, slimy, poisonous, particularly viscious or 'unlovable' in some way[1].

(Personally, I suspect that 'A' is the more likely, and the 'died' option the most possible variant of this, but a long way off in any case.)

So, having found this point, where humans won't get uppity about changes (good, bad, etc) and try to stem advancement or preserve artificial status-quos, we then take a look at all the creatures around and say "any one of them, potentially", it just depends on circumstances, the luck of the chromosomic draw and the various shiftings of the environment, etc.

(If humans are actively doing a "Dr Moreau", all bets are off, BTW)

Of course, there's always a home-grown "Kraken Wakes" possibility, where an area largely untouched (and unmonitored) by man is the cradle of the next situation, but I think that as soon as the two worlds connect there'd be conflict (unless we had enlightened enough to have the patience and understanding of Gods (the better kind, not those Greek and Roman ones... ;)), or they had already). Of course, fire wouldn't be an easy development, so we might have to imagine a non-anthropocentric method of technological advancement, and none of that pulp-fiction guff about 'harnessing strange energies' without some reality behind it, though a stone-age civilisation might well grow up beneath the waves... Of course, I'm going out on a limb here, just for the sake of arguing against my own original statements... ;)



[1] And I'd like to think we'd have negated the the historically-produced negative effects on the environment that linger on, but (if not) it would have to be treated as the 'base' natural conditions that the "new environment" is based upon...

Probably nothing else will evolve to be as advanced as us, but if something does I hope that it is cats, just so that I can see their reaction to catgirl porn.

But I meant to add the following... Concerning the rest of the options:

Other Primate - In nature, unlikely. Until the damage we've done to our cousin's populations is undone and we remain hands-off for many millions, even billions of years (though the beginings of stone-age culture is currently observed, interestinly). In captivity, we have the sign-language apes, and (Planet Of The Apes notwithstanding) we could artificially select for intelligence, and possibly a vocal range condusive to direct communication (if not engineer it), but I doubt we would be ready to accept such descendants as equals. (They already also have most of the manual dexterity available to make use of our civilisations' acoutriments, should we provide it, or leave decaying remnants behind after our 'fall'.)

Dog - Assuming you mean domesticated Dogs are already familiar with civilisation, but in 'post fall' probably won't have the ability to maintain the regualar regimine, so would have to drop back to feral level in all likelihood.

Cat - Similar to dogs, but already more self-dependant (barring the pampered kinds), so could 'land' on the feral level quickr and start back up again sooner... But (like most non-primate mammals) are a little short of easy-to-use end-effectors, so would need to develop effective bipedalism before attaining tool-use (also applies to dogs).

Elephant - Reputedly intelligent, and social, but I'd suggest pygmyisation would be necessary to make them a forerunner as the 'next big civilisation', because their generations are too long at present to develop quickly. (Also, trunk excluded, they may also need to develop bipedalism and 'retrain' their front limbs to allow complex tool use, and that's an awful lot of weight-supporting specialisation that'd need to be 'undeveloped' before they can start to wiggle fingers...)

Octopus - Rumoured to be intelligent and certainly capable of tool use and manipulation of objects (witness the countless verified examples of them opening sealed containers of food, and even closing them again afterwards), this could be the 'Kraken Wakes' development option. Could be there now. But if we find out before we are enlightened sufficiently, then someone is going to suffer when mutual realisation occurs... ;)

Bird - Primitive Tool use has been seen, complex bird song could be a precursor to language, there are a hugenumber of avian species (not all of which I'd give credence to as the ancestors of the New Civilisation, but some maybe) and who knows...

Whale or Dolphin - Very specialised for swimming. Intelligence aside, I wouldn't expect them to be as 'manual' as we are, very easily, in the mid-to-distant future. Maybe the fact that they won't develop pikes, swords and projectile weapons is more a function of intelligence than inability to use/create them, though, eh? ;) Much better to play underwater-sumo to decide conflicts, eh?

Horse - Not famed for self-sufficiency (excluding the limited number of wild populations) and again, 'descpecialisation' is required. Possible, under the right conditions (surviving humanity, and the lack of humanity, for a start), but less likely than some of the others.

Other - Superorganisms. Have you seen the emergant behaviour that (say) Driver Ants exhibit? Building roads, bridges, their own nests out of themselves? With just one genetic blueprint and a variety of chemical effectors, they create a 'body' with specialised workers, etc (much as a single genetic code resolves into cells for bone, blood, brain, etc in a single creature like ourselves) and dominate their environment... Emergent intelligence, anyone?

None! Only humans will be advanced! I'm a narcissist! - If we spoil it (on purpose or just by being 'human') there may be no possibility for further civilisations to be birthed upon our earth (gods, doesn't that sound so Green, I dont mean it to)... Not that I know whether I want another civilisation. I'm already wary about First Contact with E.T.s (though don't doubt they exist, and that we might well meet one day...If not already and they've been very clever/viscious about keeping the Truth from us) and can't imagine how a Intra-Terrestrial First Contact might be occur... Might be less painful if it's gradual realisation than so-sudden, or could be more...

I wonder what would happen if we taught chimps to use and make fire...