NationStates Jolt Archive

A real anti-American…

Supports immigrant restrictions,

Respects the IRS,

Is willing to sacrifice our wealth and young people out of fear,

Never questions the government,

Believes supporting Israel is more important than ending the threat of terrorism.

The real anti-American calls those who differ from them politically anti-American.

I'd also add a few words about supporting things like Gitmo Bay.

A real anti-American:

-fights against our rights and freedoms (like the right to not have the government spy on you without a warrant....)

-is opposed to democracy, freedom of speech, and dissent.

-opposes human rights (making us look absolutely horrible, instead of being a good example)

I'll add!

... doesn't vote.

... chooses ignorance.

... believes the way of America is the way of the world.

... scoffs at education.

... ignores their neighbor's cry for help.

... wonders why the poor just "don't get over it".

Oh I could go on all night.

The real anti-American calls those who differ from them politically anti-American.
you mean conservatives?

you mean conservatives?

I'll be the first to admit that some liberals are guilty of that as well.

There are some very true and decent Americans among conservatives. Not among Republicans, mind you, but among conservatives. The two do not equate.

A true "anti-American:"

* Has no respect for the Constitution and wishes to amend it as often as possible simply for current convenience.

* Wants the Federal Judiciary to have the right to "interpret" the Constitution in whatever way seems right to them, even when the language of the Constitution is clear on its face.

* Has no respect for those who serve in the armed forces of the US.

* Interprets the right to dissent and engage in peaceful protest as a license for riot, disrespect and mayhem.

* Wants to allow the environment to be raped for profit.

* Sides with the enemies of America out of ignorance or malice.

* Assumes that, in any dispute between the US and another country ( particularly a country they like for some reason ), the US is automatically wrong.

* Assumes that the duly elected representatives of the people are wrong if they don't agree with him or her.

* Assumes that every negative news report about America or Americans ( especially if they are in the military ) is accurate.

* Assumes that those who vote in someone they don't like are idiots.

* Refuses to respect the flag of the US, which is a symbol of the people moreso than of the government.

* Refuses to recite the Pledge of Alliegance because it doesn't fit his or her personal idea of what the Pledge should say.

* Refuses to hold elected officials accountable, especially those for whom he or she voted.

* And above all, demands his or her own way because it's the only "right" way.

A true "anti-American:"

I nearly agree with everything here.


* Refuses to respect the flag of the US, which is a symbol of the people moreso than of the government.

* Refuses to recite the Pledge of Alliegance because it doesn't fit his or her personal idea of what the Pledge should say.

This is the only bit I really disagree with. We are not a nation of symbols, we are a nation of ideals. The flag is meaningless to the nation because it is a symbol.

To refuse recitation or to burn this symbol in no way spits upon the ideals of this nation. So I respectfully disagree.

I'd also add a few words about supporting things like Gitmo Bay.Yep.
-fights against our rights and freedoms (like the right to not have the government spy on you without a warrant....)

-is opposed to democracy, freedom of speech, and dissent.

-opposes human rights (making us look absolutely horrible, instead of being a good example)Right on.
There are some very true and decent Americans among conservatives. Not among Republicans, mind you, but among conservatives. The two do not equate..
Sooo, all Republicans are indecent and untrue. Come now, not even I would say that. I’ve known Republicans who waist their time and energy on charity and shit. I obviously don’t approve, but I’m pretty sure you do.

Sooo, all Republicans are indecent and untrue.

No .... Republicans are functionally retarded. That's all there is to it.

I've been here a long time. Anyone who knows me knows I believe that with all of my heart. If you vote Republican, there is something inheretly wrong with your genetic makeup.

It's ok to be conservative. It is not ok to be Republican.

That is my opinion and it will not change. Even with someone like Senator McCain, whom I respect very much, I would kick him out of my house in a heartbeat and not let him even breathe near my children because he is Republican.

I am intensely anti-Republican. This is not a new thing. I'm 33 years old. I'm not some ignorant teenager. I've been registered to vote and have exersized that right to the best of my ability for 15 years and carefully study everything.

That is not to say I've always voted Democratic - don't make that mistake - but it will be a cold day in Hell and this planet will be consumed by the firey ball that is the Red Giant Sol before I'd ever vote Republican.

Eut, Eut, what a funny guy, and by funny, I mean utterly misguided.

* Has no respect for the Constitution and wishes to amend it as often as possible simply for current convenience.
It was made to be amended.
* Wants the Federal Judiciary to have the right to "interpret" the Constitution in whatever way seems right to them, even when the language of the Constitution is clear on its face.

You're actaully right about that.
* Has no respect for those who serve in the armed forces of the US.
Fuck that. We aren't a damn police state.
* Interprets the right to dissent and engage in peaceful protest as a license for riot, disrespect and mayhem.
Name one recent violent anti-war protest.
* Wants to allow the environment to be raped for profit.
A real American beleives in private property.
* Sides with the enemies of America out of ignorance or malice.
America's real enemies are internal. Most of them sound like you.
* Assumes that, in any dispute between the US and another country ( particularly a country they like for some reason ), the US is automatically wrong.
I guess you got me there, but when does that ever happen?
* Assumes that the duly elected representatives of the people are wrong if they don't agree with him or her.
One can only look out for their self interest. No one else will.
* Assumes that every negative news report about America or Americans ( especially if they are in the military ) is accurate.
Again you got me, but again I see no examples.
* Refuses to respect the flag of the US, which is a symbol of the people moreso than of the government.

* Refuses to recite the Pledge of Alliegance because it doesn't fit his or her personal idea of what the Pledge should say.
lol. The flag means nothing, and I refuse to say the pledge.
* Refuses to hold elected officials accountable, especially those for whom he or she voted.
Right about that one. The one business that needs oversight the most is government.
* And above all, demands his or her own way because it's the only "right" way.
See the bit about self interest.

That is not to say I've always voted Democratic - don't make that mistake - but it will be a cold day in Hell and this planet will be consumed by the firey ball that is the Red Giant Sol before I'd ever vote Republican.
:eek: Damn. I don’t even hate communists that much, and I man who hates his communists.

I'll be the first to admit that some liberals are guilty of that as well.

There are some very true and decent Americans among conservatives. Not among Republicans, mind you, but among conservatives. The two do not equate.

Nonsense and twaddle. :rolleyes:

A true "anti-American:"

* Refuses to respect the flag of the US, which is a symbol of the people moreso than of the government.

* Refuses to recite the Pledge of Alliegance because it doesn't fit his or her personal idea of what the Pledge should say.


With all we've been saying about free speech being a true American ideal, I disagree with these two statements. I think it's possible to protest the entire government (meaning the decisions of the government, not the body itself) without protesting the ideal America. And such a way to show a disagreement with the way the government handles things is flag desecration.

If flag desecration were made illegal tomorrow, I'd burn a flag on the capitol steps to show my protest.

:eek: Damn. I don’t even hate communists that much, and I man who hates his communists.

Heh ... there is no end to my seething hatred of Republicans and everything they stand for and have stood for in this country for the last 40 years.

And hey ... I *am* a communist! Don't hate me because I'm sexy! :D

Nonsense and twaddle. :rolleyes:


Republican are we?

A real anti-American tells their local USian ambassador to fuck themselves every now and again.

And, getting no response, then switches the channel to the James Bond marathon.

And, getting no response, then switches the channel to the James Bond marathon.

Hooray! Sean Connery will save us all!

A real anti-American…

Supports immigrant restrictions,

Respects the IRS,

Is willing to sacrifice our wealth and young people out of fear,

Never questions the government,

Believes supporting Israel is more important than ending the threat of terrorism.

AKA God.

Don't hate me because I'm sexy! :D
That's the only reason I got. You give me goatee envy, and I have a pretty cool goatee...

Hooray! Sean Connery will save us all!
I just flashed on Connery circa 1966 muscling his way into the Oval Office to confront the evil Bush and his henchthingys. Thing is, I can totally hear him saying Bush's name - and you know he'd come up with a corny one-liner just before he'd miss with his Walther PPK at a range of less than ten feet, giving his nemesis time to jump down an escape hatch or speed away on a tiny monorail.

*sigh*

If only...

*sigh* Eutrusca the "centrist", again. Here we go.

A true "anti-American:"

* Has no respect for the Constitution and wishes to amend it as often as possible simply for current convenience.

A true anti-American fails to realize that the Constitution was designed to be amended when necessary. Not that "Defense of Marriage" and "Prevention of Flag Desecration" are not points that are necessary for an amendment.

* Wants the Federal Judiciary to have the right to "interpret" the Constitution in whatever way seems right to them, even when the language of the Constitution is clear on its face.

A true anti-American fails to realize that the Constitution was written around 220 years ago, and therefore NEEDS to be interpreted differently to conform to the modern day. Especially since very little of the document's language is absolutely clear; that's why thousands have spent their entire lives interpreting and re-interpreting it.

* Has no respect for those who serve in the armed forces of the US.

A true anti-American thinks that US military personnel are incapable of doing any wrong, because they defended Liberty, Apple Pie, and the American Way 60 years ago.

* Interprets the right to dissent and engage in peaceful protest as a license for riot, disrespect and mayhem.

A true anti-American thinks that any protest for a cause he disagrees with is automatically "riot, disrespect, and mayhem."

* Wants to allow the environment to be raped for profit.

A true anti-American wants to allow... wait... Holy crap, we agree on this! :eek:

* Sides with the enemies of America out of ignorance or malice.

A true anti-American proclaims anyone with a legitimate beef with the US to be THE ENEMY, and anyone who happens to point out the legitimacy of that beef as being ignorant or malicious.

* Assumes that, in any dispute between the US and another country ( particularly a country they like for some reason ), the US is automatically wrong.

... Or that the US is automatically right.

* Assumes that the duly elected representatives of the people are wrong if they don't agree with him or her.

A true anti-American thinks that anyone able to garner 51% of the votes in their area is automatically a kind, true, honest human being. Apparently, every politician that this person disagrees with stole their votes, even without the aid of the company that makes voting machines.

* Assumes that every negative news report about America or Americans ( especially if they are in the military ) is accurate.

A true anti-American thinks that the US can do no wrong, and fails to realize that, often, these news reports are accurate.

* Assumes that those who vote in someone they don't like are idiots.

A true anti-American fails to realize that people wouldn't hold their opinions if they thought they were wrong, and is therefore somewhat justified when wondering at the mental capabilities of people who would vote for someone they think is a blazing idiot. This applies to people of all ideologies, by the way.

* Refuses to respect the flag of the US, which is a symbol of the people moreso than of the government.

A true anti-American cares too damn much about a dyed scrap of cloth.

* Refuses to recite the Pledge of Alliegance because it doesn't fit his or her personal idea of what the Pledge should say.

A true anti-American approves of state-sponsored propaganda taught to children who have no idea what they're saying or what it actually means. Said anti-American seems to have failed to think about the pledge itself, including the part about "liberty and justice to all" (not "all Americans," but to "ALL").

* Refuses to hold elected officials accountable, especially those for whom he or she voted.

Another point of agreement, although I think we have vastly different targets in mind.

* And above all, demands his or her own way because it's the only "right" way.

A true anti-American... Well, screw that, just any random idiot fails to realize that, again, people wouldn't hold an opinion if they didn't think it was right.

- I think it'sh time ferra trim there Misterr Boosh...

*blammo*

- Keel Bund! Now!

- Naught sho fasht, Boosh -

- Muahahahaha!

- Damn! He'sh gettin' away in tha' shubmarine!

Her last name starts with a "C" and ends with "oulter".

the true american doesn't lable others anti-american just because of their beliefs.

OK, a few things:

Disagreeing with a war and not supporting the troops are two very different things. Bush didn't have credible intelligence to support a war, and now we're alienating more and more of the world, but that does not mean I want our troops to get shot. I want them to come home. This is an important distinction, and I really wish people would stop equating political disagreement with a desire to see the US army blown to pieces. Furthermore, in the interest of supporting the troops, a major step would be to start keeping our promises to them. Soldiers are being kept far past their return dates, and even reservists and guardsmen have been kept from their families and homes for inexcusably long periods. If we want to support and honor the troops, why not start by at least dealing fairly with them?

On the constitution issue:
The constitution was made to be amended. If it couldn't be, we would still have slavery, for instance. Obviously, these changes need to be beneficial and worthwhile, and that can be debated on a case by case basis, but simply saying that changing or interpreting the constitution is wrong would leave us with some pretty outdated laws. If you want to talk about American ideals, look at Thomas Jefferson:
"To secure these [inalienable] rights [to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:429
The basic idea here is that government must be adaptable or it will be replaced. Constitutional amendments are a part of this.

Speaking of American ideals, freedom of speech/expression has to be mentioned. For those who believe that flag-burning is un-American, I would like to know why. We are encouraged to question our government, to show our dissent, and to express our political opinions as a basic element of democracy. If we do not, then we live only in the shell of true democracy. A republic works only if we continue to express our views to our officials, and sometimes this must be done drastically to make a point. If we decide that it is acceptable to voice an opinion, but only up to a point (excluding inciting violence, riots, etc.) then we begin to slide down a very dangerous slope. Frankly, we already have. Flag-burning is a direct expression of how much we are allowed to protest, how free we are to speak, and is therefore a very American act.
One more note on freedom of speech: One of the most valuable and useful elements of freedom of speech, in my opinion, is intelligent debate. (For any Monty Python fans out there: "Argument is an intellectual process. It's not just the automatic gainsaying of whatever the other person says." "Yes it is...") So I'm asking people if they disagree with anything here to give me some reasons, not just post a reply like Myotisinia's, "Nonsense and twaddle," as that accomplishes nothing constructive.

I also have to respond to the posts about people who blindly oppose the US, especially in foreign policy matters. I don't blindly oppose US policy; I happen to agree with Bush's refusal to legitimize Hamas' leadership, and I am usually very anti-Bush. However, with the realization about how little reason we had to go to war in the first place and the continued news of how little we are accomplishing, or the endless stories on the news of the seemingly same battles be fought over and over to little or no result, it is hardly blindly that we oppose his foreign policy. He seems like a kid who, having gotten caught in a lie, must run with it and continue to try to validate it rather than admit and correct it. We went to war and rather than pull the troops out and say that we're done now or even that we should have been done a while ago, he constantly says it will just be a little longer, giving no real indication of when, or at least no constant indication of when, which negates any meaning a timetable would have. So disagreeing with US foreign policy is not blind; we are not just assuming that everything the US does is wrong, but certainly there have been enough problems that the situation requires some close scrutiny. That said, anyone who does just assume a position on either side without knowing the specifics would be better served to just remain undecided.

As for the post about demanding your way because you believe it's the only "right" way, I'm of two minds. Obviously, we should express our opinions and fight for what we believe; it's our responsibility as citizens of a democratic country. However, there is rarely much point in saying, “I’m right and you're wrong and everything you think is evil!" Usually, there are valid points on both sides and an intelligent debate works a lot better to come to a compromise than blind disagreement. And in a country where presidents rarely get even 50% of the vote, compromise is going to be necessary. So yes, we should fight for "our" way and not give in completely, but also understand that never giving an inch isn't going to solve much.

One last thing: regarding the first post by Undelia, I'm curious how supporting Israel and ending terrorism are mutually exclusive. It seems that Israel is opposed to the same groups (Al-Qaeda, Hamas, etc.) that we are, so I think I'm missing your point somewhere. Not a criticism, just a question....

OK, really the last thing now. I'm repeating from earlier: If you have a problem with something here, that's fine, but I want reasons. Please don't just call me a dumbass and go on your merry way feeling superior. If you want to prove me wrong, I'm happy to listen, but prove me wrong, don't just state that I am.

The Holy Empire of Egocentricia

"Millennium hand and shrimp! Buggrit!"

the true american doesn't lable others anti-american just because of their beliefs.

So you're saying you're not a true American?

...is non-christian, an idealist, a pacifist, and weighs less than 300lbs.

OK, maybe I have Sarcasm Obliviousness Disorder (SOD), but I really hope you're joking with this one. If not, I just may put my head down and weep into my keyboard 'til it shorts out.

OK, maybe I have Sarcasm Obliviousness Disorder (SOD), but I really hope you're joking with this one. If not, I just may put my head down and weep into my keyboard 'til it shorts out.

And electrocutes your head? Of course, the rest of your body would still be alive. It would just be your head that died.

Thomas Jefferson:
"To secure these [inalienable] rights [to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:429
<snips on both ends>

All the rest of your post I agree with wholeheartedly, and only feel the need to expand on this. The government was created to protect our rights, our freedoms, our liberties. That is their sole purpose. If these things didn't need protecting we wouldn't need government. If the government is not only NOT protecting these things but assaulting things, we need to do something about the government. And to all you people out there who say "Whatever he does is fine so long as he protects me from terrorists" Go find a nice dictatorship to live under. We are supposed to be a democracy(well, republic, but you know what I mean) and I am sick of all this pandering and gifting of power to the executive. My rights may not trump any others, but your paranoia sure as hell doesn't trump my rights.

OK, a few things:

Disagreeing with a war and not supporting the troops are two very different things. Bush didn't have credible intelligence to support a war, and now we're alienating more and more of the world, but that does not mean I want our troops to get shot. I want them to come home. This is an important distinction, and I really wish people would stop equating political disagreement with a desire to see the US army blown to pieces. Furthermore, in the interest of supporting the troops, a major step would be to start keeping our promises to them. Soldiers are being kept far past their return dates, and even reservists and guardsmen have been kept from their families and homes for inexcusably long periods. If we want to support and honor the troops, why not start by at least dealing fairly with them?




Yup Yup, i'm on month 14 of my 12 month deployment to Virginia

With all we've been saying about free speech being a true American ideal, I disagree with these two statements. I think it's possible to protest the entire government (meaning the decisions of the government, not the body itself) without protesting the ideal America. And such a way to show a disagreement with the way the government handles things is flag desecration.

If flag desecration were made illegal tomorrow, I'd burn a flag on the capitol steps to show my protest.

The very freedom of American citizens to disagree with government... even to the extent of burning the flag in protest IS INDEED a GRANTED RIGHT and expected liberty of citizenship in this great Nation. This Nation was founded on the notion that one could voice his/her opinion without penalty. This Nation is free... and this Nation's military fights for it's citizen's freedom to say what they believe. Although, I will go ahead and say that this Nation's military CURRENTLY fights for other reasons. What a cruel joke. If I was in full charge of the world, I would have every magnetic auto decal that reads "Support our Troops" replaced with one that read "Apologize to Our Troops", for they clearly have no idea what the motives of the military really are... and who they REALLY support. I, for my portion of our great Nation, do hereby apologize to them, that they still put their lives on the line for what they think is freedom, when in reality, is the obvious and predictable personal selfishness of our leadership. This is why I think NationStates is so revolutionary... because we, with no monetary interests, can clearly do it better than them.

A real anti-American…

Supports immigrant restrictions,

Respects the IRS,

Is willing to sacrifice our wealth and young people out of fear,

Never questions the government,

Believes supporting Israel is more important than ending the threat of terrorism.


I support immigrant restrictions and I am an immigrant.

I support immigrant restrictions and I am an immigrant.

Obviously, you're anti-American, then. ;)

Obviously, you're anti-American, then. ;)



Yeah, How dare I think differently. ;)

Good thread.

Eut, I'm not an American, but I'm just going to address those points you've made...

A true "anti-American:"

* Has no respect for the Constitution and wishes to amend it as often as possible simply for current convenience.


If it's for "current conveniance", then I'd agree with you. But surely you're not saying it should never be amended, or that to amend it is to disrespect it?


* Has no respect for those who serve in the armed forces of the US.


I know this is a touchy point with you, but you are aware that one can oppose a senseless war without disrespecting the armed forces, right?


* Wants to allow the environment to be raped for profit.


I agree with you there.


* Sides with the enemies of America out of ignorance or malice.


Several things here:

a) It is possible to refuse to side with the US without automatically siding with its opponents in the process. Whatever Bush & Co will have you believe in their ultra-simplistic, "You're either with us or against us" little world.

b) Many Americans side with the US out of gross ignorance and propaganda-fed nationalism, which amounts to much the same thing.

c) In the category "enemies of the US", do you include those the US has labelled as enemies for the sake of conveniance?


* Assumes that, in any dispute between the US and another country ( particularly a country they like for some reason ), the US is automatically wrong.

* Assumes that the duly elected representatives of the people are wrong if they don't agree with him or her.

* Assumes that every negative news report about America or Americans ( especially if they are in the military ) is accurate.

* Assumes that those who vote in someone they don't like are idiots.


I have no respect for people who don't make use of their own sense of critical judgment and who try to make the world simplistically black and white, one way or the other. But what's your stance on people who believe the US is always right, that the US government is always right, and that everything the US does is good?

Incidentally, I do believe many people vote without thinking. On the basis of pure reaction, spoonfed by simplistic propaganda, rather than rational thought. I believe most people like everything to be simple, and don't like to think too much, yes. Doesn't mean I assume everyone who votes for someone I disagree with is an idiot, far from it.


* Refuses to respect the flag of the US, which is a symbol of the people moreso than of the government.

* Refuses to recite the Pledge of Alliegance because it doesn't fit his or her personal idea of what the Pledge should say.


Well, I can't really comment on that, since those obsessions really are US culture-specific. I like the French flag, but I don't worship it as a sacred symbol. Having said that, I can understand you feeling uncomfortable at seeing someone burn your flag. During protests against the Iraq War in Paris a few years ago, I saw people burning two flags - a US one, and a British one. I'm half-British, and I have to admit that, on a purely instinctive, reactive level, I was not happy to see them burn the latter.

But where I assume we differ is in our reactions after that. You, from what I can see, feel outrage at the dessecration of a symbol. I felt a little of that, I think, but that wasn't my main reaction. What I felt above all was shame in the British government, and the shameful image of Britain that Blair had created through his actions.


* Refuses to hold elected officials accountable, especially those for whom he or she voted.


I agree with you there, and it partially answers my earlier question. :)


* And above all, demands his or her own way because it's the only "right" way.

I've already addressed this point; I have little respect for single-minded fanatics, who refuse intelligent debate, whatever their beliefs may be.