NationStates Jolt Archive

Since we don't seem to have our daily dose of guns today, and spurred on by the presence of Neu Leonstein's "The best fighter" thread, I thought I'd start this one, which I've been thinking about for a while, now.

So... what do you think is the best or most influential or (insert adjective here) firearm of the 20th Century?

My thoughts:

The German K98, though it originated in another Century, was a well-built gun whose firing mechanism was borrowed for a number of rifles including the famous "Springfield" which served American soldiers (and others) through out WWI, WWII, Korea, and on into Vietnam.

The next gun would be the M1 Garand. It was the first automatic rifle to be issued en masse to the regular grunts in any army. This gave the average American and Allied soldier a firepower advantage over the average Germans and, more importantly, over the average Japanese (who lacked any real effective firearms). It also served as the basis for the excellent M14-series rifles which replaced the Garand in the rifleman role and today is used as a sharpshooter's weapon.

Of course, then there's the MG42/MG3. A highly effective machine gun that has served Germany (and some of her allies) well since 1942 (hence the name). It still serves in the Bundeswehr and is likely to see service well into the 21st Century.

But, the most influential firearm, in my opinion, would have to be the AK47. A robust firearm that is universally known. It is tough, rugged, reliable, and stands as the most produced series of firearms in history. It arms most militias, armies, and para-militaries on earth, and, like the MG42/3, will probably still be a common sight worldwide in 2106.

AK-47 Its simplistic design and great multiple uses as well as its durability make it the best small arms non explosive grade weapon. Cheap weapons are the weapon of the people.

Best explosive small arms weapon : RPG-16 Antitank grenade launcher Soviet Union adopted in 1970.

P.M.S.

Post Mahaboo Syndrome.


There's a darned good reason nobody dares test it/her/me. ;)

Handgun: Colt 1911 .45ACP most influential and best
Military Rifle: AK - most influential. Best, M-14

Ak-47.

M1 Garand. If All Guns Were Made At The Same Time, This Would Be The Best. Only Draw Back Is You Can't Reload Mid-Clip.

M1 Garand. If All Guns Were Made At The Same Time, This Would Be The Best.


What's that mean?

AK certainly.
Still in service around the world, for many years (decades?) to come.

AK certainly.
Still in service around the world, for many years (decades?) to come.
John Browning's 45ACP was first produced commercially in 1909, modestly updated in 1911 and only lightly tweaked thereafter. After almost 100 years it is still the handgun against which all others are judged.

While I agree the AK47 is the most influential on the geopolitical scene, it has nearly 40 years of catchup to equal the .45. Thus, the .45 still wins on all other counts. :D

Tie between the Ak-47/74 and the M-1.

Has to be the Barret .50 Cal! It's a must have for any battalion to "reach out and touch someone", whether they're behind a brick wall or not.

After almost 100 years it is still the handgun against which all others are judged.
You reckon?

AK certainly.
Still in service around the world, for many years (decades?) to come.

You know, I half expected you to pick the MP/StG-44, the G3, or the G36. Shock and awe. ;)

You know, I half expected you to pick the MP/StG-44, the G3, or the G36. Shock and awe. ;)
Meh, they weren't "influential" as such...except maybe that the Stg-44 was sort of the model for the Kalashnikov.
The G36 might be the best assault rifle in large scale use at the moment though.

But I'm not a gun expert, and I have never in my life fired one, or seen one fired.

You reckon?
Well, I don't know how many gun magazines there are in Oz, but from the toggle-link retarded blowback system to the basic configuration of competitive sport pistols, the 1911 system is where nearly all of it starts. New designs are described by how they differ from the .45. The world of custom pistolsmithing IS the .45.

Only within the last decade have significant design differences like polymer frames, DA and striker-fired pistols made inroads in the .45's dominance of the pistol market (revolvers have their own subset) - but even there the 1911 has adapted to match (see ParaOrdnance et.al.)

It is likely that of all weapons in production today, ONLY the AK has a higher unit count... maybe.

It is likely that of all weapons in production today, ONLY the AK has a higher unit count... maybe.

I dunno what bearing this has, but the AUG is the most commercially successful battle rifle. There might be more AUGs than M1911/M1911A1s.

Meh, they weren't "influential" as such...except maybe that the Stg-44 was sort of the model for the Kalashnikov.
The G36 might be the best assault rifle in large scale use at the moment though.

But I'm not a gun expert, and I have never in my life fired one, or seen one fired.

I guess that'll change once you join the PzGs, right?

The most Influential: Certainly the AK series, it's cheaper, more durable and more numerous than just about any three other weapons, the AK is still influencing politics and gun manufacture, several of techniques created for its manufacture have been applied to weapons such as the M-16 and M-4 (As well as many other firearms around the world) and the original AK-47 is still inuse by ex-soviet supported terrorists where ever they still remain.


The best however: I am, and probably always will be a fan of the First Caseless Assault rifle design: The G-11. it makes up for its relatively small round with several innovative features
1. Caseless ammunition: practically ends jamming, negates the 'where to eject the casings so it can be used by right/left handers' problem, halves the weight of ammunition, halves the cost of mass producing ammunition.

2. Low recoil: becasue of the innovative and unique design, the action actually rolls back into the weapons 'shell' delaying and reducing recoil

3. Absurdly high rate of Three round burst fire: something like 2,000 rounds per minute in three round burst, the third round is fired before the first round in the group even leaves the barrel, causing the first two rounds to accelerate dramatically due to pressure, coupled with the recoil delaying/reducing effect, the second round leaves the barrel before the recoil is even felt by the person firing the gun.
4. damage: Becasue the first two round leave the barrel as effectively one round, and the third is not far behind, the small 4.7mm rounds effectivley become 9.4mm rounds with some nasty ballistics after entry (think, two roughly 5.56 mm sized fragments bouncing around inside the same hole, thats some fragemtnign characteristic)

50 round clips (With a SAW version holding a 300 round clip) is a good thing too

Its a shame she never saw production due to political constraints...

I dunno what bearing this has, but the AUG is the most commercially successful battle rifle. There might be more AUGs than M1911/M1911A1s.
I don't think that is a physical possibility... unless they have made over 5 million of them...

Colt M1911.45 ACP

The Colt M1911, unlike the Luger, became an all-time classic because of its unequaled excellence as a fighting handgun. Introduced in 1911, it has been in continuous production ever since and likely to remain so for the next 100 years. Its design is the culmination of John Browning's original design and the features requested by a very enlightened U.S. Army test board. The resulting pistol has the desirable features of being simple, reliable, durable, accurate, powerful, fast reloading, fast to get into action and easy to maintain. With regard to the latter, it is unique among semi-automatic pistols in that it can be detail stripped without tools in a matter of a minute or so.

In addition to its adoption in the United States in 1911, it was selected by Norway in 1914 and Argentina in 1916. It was eventually produced in quantity in both counties. During World War II, it was adopted by Brazil, who eventually produced it in .45 ACP and later in 9mm for the Brazilian military. It was also adopted by many other countries including the Philippines, Mexico, Taiwan, Thailand and South Korea, plus many other Latin American countries.

In addition to being produced by Colt, licensed government contacts were given to other manufacturers during both World Wars. During World War I these included (with the approximate number of guns produced), Springfield Armory (25,000), Remington Arms (21,500) and North American Arms Co. of Canada (100). Other manufacturers making the gun just before and during World War II were Singer Manufacturing Co. (500), Remington Rand Inc. (900,000), Ithaca Gun Co. Inc. (400,000) and Union Switch and Signal Co. (50,000). Unlicensed, direct copies have been made in Spain, Brazil, Canada (high capacity), Italy, South Africa, Israel, China, the Philippines and several other Far Eastern counties as well as in the United States. It has also inspired many closely related foreign spin-offs, the Spanish Star, Spanish Llama and the Argentine Ballester Molina. United States-made copies, past and present, include examples made by AMT, A&R Sales (frames), Detonics, Crown City, Enterprise Arms, Falcon Arms (left handed), Federal O rdnance, O.D. I (double action), Olympic Arms, Auto Ordnance, S.T.I. International (polymer frame), Safari Arms, Baer, Brolin, Briley Manufacturing, Enterprise Arms (high capacity), Kimber Mfg., Essex Arms (frames and slides), Caspian Arms (frames and slides), Springfield Inc., Randall Firearms and Wilson. Spin-offs have been made by Coonan, L.A.R. Mfg. and others.

The basic M1911 design underwent some minor changes in the 1920s, resulting in the M191 1A1. These included an arched mainspring housing, a shortened hammer spur and trigger and a longer gripsafety spur. All the changed parts are interchangeable between the M1911 and the M1911A1. The only other change was the addition of slight finger clearance cutouts in the frame just behind the trigger, as an aid to people with short fingers.

The M1911A1 remained the standard handgun of the U.S. Army and Marines until 1986 when it began to be replaced by the M9 (M92FS) Beretta 9mm pistol. However, slightly modified M191 IAI pistols remain the standard handgun for the elite U.S. Army Operational Detachment Delta counter terrorist unit and the Marine special operations units. That's 89 years of military service and still going strong! Interestingly, M1911A1 variations are the current standard handguns for the FBI

Hostage Rescue and SWAT units.

Beside the .45 ACP cartridge, the M1911 family, as made by Colt, has also been chambered for the .38 Super, 9mm parabellum, 9mm Steyr, 9x23nun Winchester, 7.65mm Luger, .38 Special wadcutter, .40 S&W, 10mm auto and .22 Long Rifle cartridges, plus numerous other cartridges in non-Colt copies.

The total production of the M1911 family, both military and commercial, including licensed copies, is around 3 million. Add the non-licensed copies and close spin-offs, and the number is probably closer to 5 million.

Famous users of the M1911 include Medal of Honor Winner Sgt. Alvin York; President Harry Truman, as a World War I Army officer; Marine General Chesty Puller; Jeff Cooper and many more. The excellence of the M1911 as a fighting handgun is such that it has outlasted all of its World War I and World War II contemporaries except the Browning Hi-Power and the Walther PP. When astronauts visit other planets in the next century some of them will carry variations of the M1911 as personal protection.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_2001_Annual/ai_63922925 pgs 2 & 3.

There may be more than 5 million AKs out there, but I'm betting it's a close race.

I don't think that is a physical possibility... unless they have made over 5 million of them...



There may be more than 5 million AKs out there, but I'm betting it's a close race.

I think there are something along the lines of 40 million AKs floating around out there, if I recall the number properly from the Scientific American article I read a long time ago about the use of firearms in Third World countries. It was obviously a politcally motivated article, but the numbers are probably accurate.

I guess that'll change once you join the PzGs, right?
Likely.

But I still don't know whether that will even happen. All depends on whether or not my father can find a job soon - if he can't, and my family goes back to Germany, I might go with them, and only then will I get into the position.
So at this point this is not all that likely, I would hope.

ak - check out that widespread use

Ak

According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47), over 100 million AK-series weapons have been produced. According to world.guns.ru (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as01-e.htm), over 90 million have been produced. According to thebulletin.org (http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=jf99klare) there are over 60 million.

So, I'd say there are somewhere between ten and twenty times more Kalashnikovs than M1911/A1s. :p

Likely.

But I still don't know whether that will even happen. All depends on whether or not my father can find a job soon - if he can't, and my family goes back to Germany, I might go with them, and only then will I get into the position.
So at this point this is not all that likely, I would hope.

Ah. Well... good luck with that. Dunno what else to say....

I think there are something along the lines of 40 million AKs floating around out there, if I recall the number properly from the Scientific American article I read a long time ago about the use of firearms in Third World countries. It was obviously a politcally motivated article, but the numbers are probably accurate.
I just popped into my Favorites and checked with world.guns.ru one of the singularly best sites for firearms stats, specs and general info.

They list the AK series at more than 90million units in various configurations. http://world.guns.ru/assault/as01-e.htm

Their info on the 1911 series gives numbers only in the vague "millions produced in WWI, and more millions produced in WWII". However, here is what the Russian author says:
In the end, i must say that this article is very incomplete, since the Colt Gov't / M1911 is probably the most popular pistol in the world. It is known for its reliability, serviceability, simplicity. Custom made M1911s capable of outstanding accuracy, and many of M1911-patterned guns are still in service with different military and law enforcement agencies in the USA. http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg04-e.htm :D

I just popped into my Favorites and checked with world.guns.ru one of the singularly best sites for firearms stats, specs and general info.

They list the AK series at more than 90million units in various configurations. http://world.guns.ru/assault/as01-e.htm

Their info on the 1911 series gives numbers only in the vague "millions produced in WWI, and more millions produced in WWII". However, here is what the Russian author says:
:D

An M1911A1 and AKM for every man, woman, and child!

I cannot believe nobody has mentioned the Browning Assault Rifle yet ...

Arguably the weapon that won WWII.

However, if I had to choose my favorite as a sidearm, it would be the Colt MK IV:

http://www.m1911.org/images/colt04.jpg

Damn fine weapon.

Anything not made by Germany. Useless fascist junk.

Anything not made by Germany. Useless fascist junk.

Not useless. Germany makes (and made) many of the best weapons ever to be machined.

Not useless. Germany makes (and made) many of the best weapons ever to be machined.

Such as...

I love the Mauser, MP-40, Glock, Uzi 9mm, Desert Eagle, Nemlur .67in, and the Smith & Wesson 10mm handgun. I think the AK-47 is the most influential gun. The M1 is a very nice gun_perfect, as a matter of fact for it's time.

Such as...

Mauser C.96, K98

Heckler & Koch G3, G36, USP/P8, Mark 23 SOCOM, MP5, MP7

Walther PP, PPK, MPK, MPL, P99, P.38/P1 (First double-action semi-auto pistol to enter service)

MG42, MG3, MG4

MP-38/40, MP/StG-44

I think the M-16 stinks. Unrelible for the most part, too small a calibur (not even 6mm!), and not a fast enough rate of fire on "Rock 'n Roll" mode. I like the Colt rendition.

I think the M-16 stinks. Unrelible for the most part, too small a calibur (not even 6mm!), and not a fast enough rate of fire on "Rock 'n Roll" mode. I like the Colt rendition.

The M16 has always been a Colt weapon....

Mauser C.96, K98

Heckler & Koch G3, G36, USP, Mark 23 SOCOM, MP5, MP7

Walther PP, PPK, MPK, MPL, P99

MG42, MG3, MG4

MP-38/40, MP/StG-44 Got to LOVE the MP5! :D

The M16 has always been a Colt weapon....
Sorry, I know I mean their non-military version (it's 9mm...darn I forgot the name).

Sorry, I know I mean their non-military version (it's 9mm...darn I forgot the name).

The non-military version of the M16 is known as the AR-15. Which is virtually identical to the M16 except for the removal of the Full-Auto option on the selector switch.

The 9mm version of the M16 is known as the "Commando", if I recall properly.

Mauser C.96, K98

Heckler & Koch G3, G36, USP/P8, Mark 23 SOCOM, MP5, MP7

Walther PP, PPK, MPK, MPL, P99, P.38/P1 (First double-action semi-auto pistol to enter service)

MG42, MG3, MG4

MP-38/40, MP/StG-44

That's all useless crap. The MP5 is just the SMG version of the AK-47. The G36 is a substandard weapon that can't stand up to an M16.

Thank you... WAIT A SEC...isn't that the assualt rifle in "GoldenEye: Rogue Agent"? I think it is!

Thank you... WAIT A SEC...isn't that the assualt rifle in "GoldenEye: Rogue Agent"? I think it is!

The AR in GE was the M16 renamed the AR-33 to avoid issues.

The AR in GE was the M16 renamed the AR-33 to avoid issues.
Same thing with the "Jackal"?

Same thing with the "Jackal"?

What Jackal?

That's all useless crap. The MP5 is just the SMG version of the AK-47. The G36 is a substandard weapon that can't stand up to an M16.

Go read a book about guns and then come back.

The MP5 is a 9mm version of the G3, a rifle whose operating principles are completely different from those of an AK-series weapon. The MP5 was, for the longest time (and is still), the preferred weapon of special operations, security, and SWAT personnel the world over.

The G36 is superior to the M16: Until recently, an Americanized version of the weapon was slated to replace the M16 and M4. The action of the G36 is based on a design that Eugene Stoner designed after the AR-15 and is widely considered to be superior. The system can be found most commonly in the US in the guise of the AR-180B produced by Armalite.

The K98 was the basis for the Springfield bolt action rifle. Both of which were extremely fine weapons.

The Walther PPK and P99 are the weapons of choice for many intelligence operatives as well as police. (James Bond, in a ficticious nod to the real gents, used a PPK until Tomorrow Never Dies, when he got the P99).

The P38 and MG42 were weapons so superb that even when faced with the option of adopting the Browning light machine gun and the M1911A1 (among others), they stuck to the two weapons. The two are still common sights in the Bundeswehr.

The MP-38/40 was the first mass produced (as opposed to hand-crafted) submachine gun ever made, and was highly successful. Despite its low-powered cartridge, some GIs even prefered it to the M1 Thompson and M3 Greasegun.

The MP/StG-44 was the world's first true assault rifle, and its design had a major impact on the design of Kalashnikov's rifles, as well as H&K's.

What Jackal?
The hand gun in GE.

The hand gun in GE.

The firearms in GoldenEye were renamed due to licensing issues. I would suspect they were renamed for the same reasons in Rogue Agent.

Go read a book about guns and then come back.

The MP5 is a 9mm version of the G3, a rifle whose operating principles are completely different from those of an AK-series weapon. The MP5 was, for the longest time (and is still), the preferred weapon of special operations, security, and SWAT personnel the world over.

I didn't mean literally, I meant that the MP5 is only popular because it's cheap and easy to produce, not for it's capability.

The G36 is superior to the M16: Until recently, an Americanized version of the weapon was slated to replace the M16 and M4. The action of the G36 is based on a design that Eugene Stoner designed after the AR-15 and is widely considered to be superior. The system can be found most commonly in the US in the guise of the AR-180B produced by Armalite.

It must have something wrong with it if only 5 or so countries use it.

The K98 was the basis for the Springfield bolt action rifle. Both of which were extremely fine weapons.

The Walther PPK and P99 are the weapons of choice for many intelligence operatives as well as police. (James Bond, in a ficticious nod to the real gents, used a PPK until Tomorrow Never Dies, when he got the P99).

The P38 and MG42 were weapons so superb that even when faced with the option of adopting the Browning light machine gun and the M1911A1 (among others), they stuck to the two weapons. The two are still common sights in the Bundeswehr.

The MP-38/40 was the first mass produced (as opposed to hand-crafted) submachine gun ever made, and was highly successful. Despite its low-powered cartridge, some GIs even prefered it to the M1 Thompson and M3 Greasegun.

The MP/StG-44 was the world's first true assault rifle, and its design had a major impact on the design of Kalashnikov's rifles, as well as H&K's.

And how many wars were won with those weapons?

The hand gun in GE.

The only handguns I recall are the PP7, DD44, Klobb, and Cougar Magnum.

AK-47 or the US Heavy Machinegun that has been around since WWI but that isn't really a firearm or is it?:confused:

I didn't mean literally, I meant that the MP5 is only popular because it's cheap and easy to produce, not for it's capability.

No, it became popular because of it's accuracy, reliability, and low recoil. They still, to this day, cost an arm and a leg.

It must have something wrong with it if only 5 or so countries use it.

There are 10 million AR-15 rifles in circulation today. This number is only surpassed by the Kalashnikov. The AR-15 is used by fewer nations than the G36.

And how many wars were won with those weapons?

The Israeli War of Independence. World War I. World War II.

A weapon is not important just because it wins wars. They're also important because they change the way wars are fought. And that was something they definately did.

EDIT:

The G36 is currently the standard issue rifle for Norway, Germany, Mexico, Spain, numerous police forces in the UK and the US, and is the rifle employed by the NATO Rapid Reaction Force. Now tell me, why would a poorly designed rifle be favored by the NATORRF, when they have the complete run of rifles made from the US to Israel?

The comparatively small numbers of nations employing the G36 is due to how new the rifle is. It was first introduced eleven years ago, over thirty years after the AR-15 was introduced.

Listen, I don't care how good a weapon is; if it don't win wars, it's useless.

AK-47 or the US Heavy Machinegun that has been around since WWI but that isn't really a firearm or is it?:confused:

Those are firearms. Anything that you would call a "gun" that isn't, say, a pellet gun or a BB gun or a paintball gun is a firearm. So called because the cartridges "burn" to release gas which expands in the chamber and expells the bullet from the muzzle.

Listen, I don't care how good a weapon is; if it don't win wars, it's useless.

I'm glad that you're not in charge of any nation's military, then. If you were, they'd still be using the crossbow. :rolleyes:

Oh, and guns don't win wars. Soldiers do.

I'm glad that you're not in charge of any nation's military, then. If you were, they'd still be using the crossbow. :rolleyes:

No, they'd be using the M16, or the AK-108.

the browning high power pistol (beautiful weapon still in production and used by a really high proportion of the worlds armies)

the MosinNagat 1897 rifle (equiped russia through both world wars I believe) and so must have been produced in large numbers also its quite a nice weapon. (I know its 1897 but it was produced for a sizable part of the 20th century)

the Lee enfield series of rifles (very good range of rifles reliable, robust, simple and adaptable for many roles)

MP43/MP44 one of the most influential weapons ever (from it sprang the AK47 and its ofspring the AK74 and the light machine gun varient (whose name escapes me))

the Brengun (or rather its chech ancester but as I can't remember it it will slip by the wayside) which served britain and the commonwealth (with the exception of india at the begining who used the vickers berther weapon) during world war two and was then replaced with the general perperse machine gun used today (which ironicly is based on the bren gun)

the sten gun and the besel, while most have heard of the sten gun or tin tommy gun (used by british and commonwealth forces through out the war (with the exception of some australian units that used a different sub machine gun due to the problems of a long side magasine in jungle terrain)) most will not have heard of the besel (it might be spelt besl for the record) this was a light machine gun equivilent to the sten gun designed in case the factory where the Bren was made was destroyed or overun (thank fully this never happened) both these guns are very good examples of the ability to produce resonable weapons quickly in an emergancy.

The FAL or SLR, this rifle originaly designed prior to WWII by a belgian after the war became the weapon for most nato forces (I believe only the americans didn't use it though if you have any other information i'd be gratefull) it has been produced in the light section automatic role as well with bipod and a heavier barrel (simular to the soviet adaption of the AK47). it can fire automatic, bursts or single shots (though large numbers of nations removed the automatic option while some also removed the burst ability(I believe canada had a 3 round burst option and single shot on most of its while britain only had single shot)).

While there are many other influential weapons such as the lewis gun and thompson I haven't touched on i'll leave them to those who know about them more thouroughly

MP43/MP44 one of the most influential weapons ever (from it sprang the AK47 and its ofspring the AK74 and the light machine gun varient (whose name escapes me))

The RPK.

The FAL or SLR, this rifle originaly designed prior to WWII by a belgian after the war became the weapon for most nato forces (I believe only the americans didn't use it though if you have any other information i'd be gratefull) it has been produced in the light section automatic role as well with bipod and a heavier barrel (simular to the soviet adaption of the AK47). it can fire automatic, bursts or single shots (though large numbers of nations removed the automatic option while some also removed the burst ability(I believe canada had a 3 round burst option and single shot on most of its while britain only had single shot)).

The FN FAL was not used by the US, Spain, or West Germany. Germany used the G3, Spain the CETME, and the US used the M14 (before tranisitioning to the M16, which precipitated the change in standard NATO calibers to include the .223 Remmington).

Listen, I don't care how good a weapon is; if it don't win wars, it's useless.
So you're saying that if a better weapon comes out than the one your soldiers have, you'll refuse to adopt it because it "don't win wars"?

No, they'd be using the M16, or the AK-108.

Given that neither of those weapons are war winners (the AK-108 in particular has been used by the winning side in no conflict).

So you're saying that if a better weapon comes out than the one your soldiers have, you'll refuse to adopt it because it "don't win wars"?

Well, I'll want some other sucker to try it out first.

Given that neither of those weapons are war winners (the AK-108 in particular has been used by the winning side in no conflict).

The M16 won in Gulf 1 and 2, and the AK series won in Vietnam. Good enough for me.

Well, I'll want some other sucker to try it out first.

Yeah, but if they try it out on you, and it makes your weapons obsolete, then you will be kinda screwed would you not?

The M16 won in Gulf 1 and 2, and the AK series won in Vietnam. Good enough for me.

Yeah, because the Gulf wars were against such comparable opposition...

So... what do you think is the best or most influential or (insert adjective here) firearm of the 20th Century?

AK-47 - Simply because although it may not be the 'best' in a technical sense, its iconic media image, the numbers it has been produced in (anywhere between 60-110 million depending on which source you look at) and the simple fact that virtually every army in the world, although they may not have it as a weapon, trains their units in its function, so that they are familiar with it.

That said, as Syniks pointed out the Browning 45ACP is also legendary.

And in more recent times, the H&K MP5 is a pretty legendary weapon, with a media status almost equal to the AK47/74.

The only handguns I recall are the PP7, DD44, Klobb, and Cougar Magnum.
It's in "Rogue Agent".

Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

An M1911A1 and AKM for every man, woman, and child!
Works for me. I think there woud actually be fewer wars if that were the case...

The RPK.



The FN FAL was not used by the US, Spain, or West Germany. Germany used the G3, Spain the CETME, and the US used the M14 (before tranisitioning to the M16, which precipitated the change in standard NATO calibers to include the .223 Remmington).

For the matter, the French didn't use them either. They used the Mas-49, then the Mas 49/56, then they developed the Famas.

Those are firearms. Anything that you would call a "gun" that isn't, say, a pellet gun or a BB gun or a paintball gun is a firearm. So called because the cartridges "burn" to release gas which expands in the chamber and expells the bullet from the muzzle.
OK definatly that then or the AK-47.
Influential Ak-47 though i also like th MP-5

The M16 won in Gulf 1 and 2, and the AK series won in Vietnam. Good enough for me.

The M16 didn't win either of those wars. A-10s and M1A1s, and then M1A1Hs and M1A2s won Gulf Wars II and III.

The specific AKs that won Vietnam were the AK47 and the AKM. Not the AK series. No AK74 or later weapons were used. The AK108 is a completely different rifle from both of those weapons, firing a 5.56mm NATO cartridge, instead of 7.62 Russian or 5.45mm Russian. And even then, Vietnam was won by the Vietnamese because they were more persistent and, well, it's their home: all they had to do to win was to survive.

The M16 didn't win either of those wars. A-10s and M1A1s, and then M1A1Hs and M1A2s won Gulf Wars II and III.

The specific AKs that won Vietnam were the AK47 and the AKM. Not the AK series. No AK74 or later weapons were used. The AK108 is a completely different rifle from both of those weapons, firing a 5.56mm NATO cartridge, instead of 7.62 Russian or 5.45mm Russian. And even then, Vietnam was won by the Vietnamese because they were more persistent and, well, it's their home: all they had to do to win was to survive.

To be fair, Bradley's won Gulf War two, at least more than Abrams.

Bradleys killed more enemy armour. Not surprising, seeing as the majority of saddams tanks were T-55's and type 59's.

Ak-47.
............

Since we don't seem to have our daily dose of guns today, and spurred on by the presence of Neu Leonstein's "The best fighter" thread, I thought I'd start this one, which I've been thinking about for a while, now.

So... what do you think is the best or most influential or (insert adjective here) firearm of the 20th Century?

My thoughts:

The German K98, though it originated in another Century, was a well-built gun whose firing mechanism was borrowed for a number of rifles including the famous "Springfield" which served American soldiers (and others) through out WWI, WWII, Korea, and on into Vietnam.

The next gun would be the M1 Garand. It was the first automatic rifle to be issued en masse to the regular grunts in any army. This gave the average American and Allied soldier a firepower advantage over the average Germans and, more importantly, over the average Japanese (who lacked any real effective firearms). It also served as the basis for the excellent M14-series rifles which replaced the Garand in the rifleman role and today is used as a sharpshooter's weapon.

Of course, then there's the MG42/MG3. A highly effective machine gun that has served Germany (and some of her allies) well since 1942 (hence the name). It still serves in the Bundeswehr and is likely to see service well into the 21st Century.

But, the most influential firearm, in my opinion, would have to be the AK47. A robust firearm that is universally known. It is tough, rugged, reliable, and stands as the most produced series of firearms in history. It arms most militias, armies, and para-militaries on earth, and, like the MG42/3, will probably still be a common sight worldwide in 2106.

PPsH 41

Since we don't seem to have our daily dose of guns today, and spurred on by the presence of Neu Leonstein's "The best fighter" thread, I thought I'd start this one, which I've been thinking about for a while, now.

So... what do you think is the best or most influential or (insert adjective here) firearm of the 20th Century?

My thoughts:

The German K98, though it originated in another Century, was a well-built gun whose firing mechanism was borrowed for a number of rifles including the famous "Springfield" which served American soldiers (and others) through out WWI, WWII, Korea, and on into Vietnam.

The next gun would be the M1 Garand. It was the first automatic rifle to be issued en masse to the regular grunts in any army. This gave the average American and Allied soldier a firepower advantage over the average Germans and, more importantly, over the average Japanese (who lacked any real effective firearms). It also served as the basis for the excellent M14-series rifles which replaced the Garand in the rifleman role and today is used as a sharpshooter's weapon.

Of course, then there's the MG42/MG3. A highly effective machine gun that has served Germany (and some of her allies) well since 1942 (hence the name). It still serves in the Bundeswehr and is likely to see service well into the 21st Century.

But, the most influential firearm, in my opinion, would have to be the AK47. A robust firearm that is universally known. It is tough, rugged, reliable, and stands as the most produced series of firearms in history. It arms most militias, armies, and para-militaries on earth, and, like the MG42/3, will probably still be a common sight worldwide in 2106.

PPsH 41

Handgun: Colt 1911 .45ACP most influential and best
Military Rifle: AK - most influential. Best, M-14

Agreed.

Runners up would be the M1 Garand, M-16, and H&K MP5.

Don't know about specific firearms, but the most important/influential types of ammunition are the 9mm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:9mmLuger.jpg) and the .50 BMG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M2Round.jpg).

PPsH 41, High rate of fire, large magazine capacity, used by guerillas everywhere till the AK-47 became commonplace.


STG-44 (Can we say G-3, MP-5?)

Ak-47, cheap easy to use, beat the shit out of it and it'll still shoot.

M-16A2/M-4A1/A2- A dream to shoot, low recoil, accurate, not as mechanically simple as a AK-47 or a M-14 but still is not very complex and is easy to break down in the field. Take care of it and it'll take care of you.

M-1911A1- Excellant weapon, is a bit to handle, but excellant stopping power and great realibility.

Glock 17- Revolutionized the Polymer Framed pistol, light weight and reliable as all hell. Personally not a favorite of mine to shoot, I prefer the Sig Sauer Series of weapons for Pistols.

MG-42/MG-3 Excellant weapon and spawned the US Made M-60 which is arguably one of the greatest LMG's of all time.

Browning M-2 Heavy machine gun. (Been in use since the 20's[actually started out as an Anti-Tank weapon] need I say more?)

Browning Automatic Rifle. M1918A1. Great Squad Automatic Weapon, was in use for 40 years, reliable, hard hitting.




And a Personal Favorite of mine

M-249 Squad Automatic Weapon - Fabrique National knows how to make a weapon, I LOVE this thing, its my baby, i love qualify with it, i love shooting it from the Turret of a HMMWV, I just love it. It's heavy but I'd prefer it to the Pig or an M16/M203

Best: 1911 .45
Most Influential: AK-47
Favorite: BMG .50, bolt action

Don't know about specific firearms, but the most important/influential types of ammunition are the 9mm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:9mmLuger.jpg) and the .50 BMG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M2Round.jpg).

Oh, I think you'd have a good fight on your hands with the .45 ACP and the 7.62 MM.

B

Oh, I think you'd have a good fight on your hands with the .45 ACP and the 7.62 MM.

B

Or 7.62x25mm(PPSh, PPS-43, TT-33, The Broomhandle, Many other guns), and 5.56mm(Like it or not, probably the most influential caliber of the last thirty years, in the world of weaponry).

I think the M-16 stinks. Unrelible for the most part, too small a calibur (not even 6mm!), and not a fast enough rate of fire on "Rock 'n Roll" mode. I like the Colt rendition.
darn ietnam myths, they die hard, The only reason the M-16 is, was or ever will be unreliable is if you don't take care of it. In Vietnam they told soldiers that becasue of its firing system, it never had to be cleaned. Of course that was completely wrong and the uns that weren't cleaned jammed, once they got clean, magically, they stopped jamming, and stayed that way as long as they were clean.

now, in the M-16 line, I'm a fan of the good old AR-15, slap a conversion to gas operated (so it doesn't need to be cleaned for real), a good ACOG sight for optics, and a shiny Carbon Fiber Barrel, maybe a variable pull recoil Stock for comfort, and there my friends is a beautiful weapon

http://world.guns.ru/main-e.htm

darn ietnam myths, they die hard, The only reason the M-16 is, was or ever will be unreliable is if you don't take care of it. In Vietnam they told soldiers that becasue of its firing system, it never had to be cleaned. Of course that was completely wrong and the uns that weren't cleaned jammed, once they got clean, magically, they stopped jamming, and stayed that way as long as they were clean.

now, in the M-16 line, I'm a fan of the good old AR-15, slap a conversion to gas operated (so it doesn't need to be cleaned for real), a good ACOG sight for optics, and a shiny Carbon Fiber Barrel, maybe a variable pull recoil Stock for comfort, and there my friends is a beautiful weapon

http://world.guns.ru/main-e.htm

Ehh. Its only a passable gun. The only advantage I see to the AR-15 line of guns is customizability. Other than that, it really seems like a medium level gun. For stock use, or limited customizing, I would much rather have a Famas G2 or Steyr Aug(Civilian, without the standard sights). Or perhaps the AK-108(5.56mm one, not that one guy's .308).

Of course, this is only talking about 5.56mm guns too.