NationStates Jolt Archive

WMD: Since the start of the Iraq war, many have wondered what happened to Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. The answer, a new book argues, is Iraq sent them to Syria.

One book, of course, doesn't prove anything. But in this case, the book was written by someone who seems credible on the subject: former Iraqi Gen. Georges Sada, the No. 2 official in Saddam's air force.

In an interview, Sada told The New York Sun's Ira Stoll: "There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands." Sada claims Saddam simply flew the WMD out of Iraq in two hollowed-out Boeing jets, making 56 trips in all. He also sent WMD out on trucks.

This revelation follows by one month Israeli Gen. Moshe Yaalon's comments, pretty much ignored by the media, that Israel had intelligence showing that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents (WMD) from Iraq to Syria."

Far-fetched? Not at all. After all, Syria is ruled by the Baath Party, just as Iraq was. Two countries, one party, one extreme ideology based on radical pan-Arab nationalism and hatred of Jews.

In fact, it would be strange if Syria didn't help its fraternal twin in Iraq out by hiding WMD taken out of the country shortly before U.S. troops invaded -- as Sada alleges. This would be right in line with what we already know about Syria's past misbehavior.

As the 2004 Patterns of Global Terrorism report pointed out, Syria's regime, headed by Bashar Assad, has a long history of supporting terrorist groups. Damascus at one time or another has lent a helping hand to Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad. And it was almost certainly behind last year's assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

More worrisome to us are signs of links between Syria and al-Qaida. Recall that in April 2004 neighboring Jordan nabbed a number of al-Qaida-linked terrorists who were planning chemical weapon attacks on the U.S. Embassy and Jordanian government in Amman. Lebanon later discovered the terrorists had used Syria as a base -- both as a source of materials for their chemical weapons and as a haven.

LINKY (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20060127/bs_ibd_ibd/2006126issues)

How very interesting that this story isn't getting much play. I mean, the media seems to have no problems reporting about how Bush supposedly mislead the country about the WMD's, but if there's even a hint that he wasn't, apparently it's a none story?

So basically, Saddam DID has WMD's, and sent them to Syria for safe keeping with the rest of HIS POLITICAL PARTY (Baath) and it hasn't gotten play on ANY major network (not even FOX)?

I mean, it's not like it was anyone important who said it, right? Not like it was the Israeli Intelligence, or a top General in the Iraqi military who actually claims to have done it, right? Oh wait.................

But anyway, who cares, because no matter what, Bush lied, right? AND the Israeli intelligence, AND the Turkish intelligence, AND British intelligence, AND Russian intelligence?

Couldn't have been Saddam lying, right?

LINKY (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20060127/bs_ibd_ibd/2006126issues)

How very interesting that this story isn't getting much play. I mean, the media seems to have no problems reporting about how Bush supposedly mislead the country about the WMD's, but if there's even a hint that he wasn't, apparently it's a none story?

So basically, Saddam DID has WMD's, and sent them to Syria for safe keeping with the rest of HIS POLITICAL PARTY (Baath) and it hasn't gotten play on ANY major network (not even FOX)?

I mean, it's not like it was anyone important who said it, right? Not like it was the Israeli Intelligence, or a top General in the Iraqi military who actually claims to have done it, right? Oh wait.................

But anyway, who cares, because no matter what, Bush lied, right? AND the Israeli intelligence, AND the Turkish intelligence, AND British intelligence, AND Russian intelligence?

Couldn't have been Saddam lying, right?

So in conclusion he didn't have any chemical weapons and we knew it?

anything that might be supporting the Pres, or the current administration has to be a lie. :rolleyes:

the media can't play it cus it may hint that the President is right. Fox can't play it because everyone here aready claims that the Fox news Network is on Pres. Bush's payroll.

and the fact that No Weapons were found in Iraq is the fact that means that Iraq didn't have WMD's. no one cares if he did have them and it was moved, the fact that they weren't there when the US invaded is all the evidence people need to say they were NEVER there. :rolleyes:

What's your point? Should we send troops into Syria, evict their government and scour there for the weapons at the behest of some Iraqi general? You're welcome to try and put forward that suggestion if you like...

anything that might be supporting the Pres, or the current administration has to be a lie. :rolleyes:

the media can't play it cus it may hint that the President is right. Fox can't play it because everyone here aready claims that the Fox news Network is on Pres. Bush's payroll.

and the fact that No Weapons were found in Iraq is the fact that means that Iraq didn't have WMD's. no one cares if he did have them and it was moved, the fact that they weren't there when the US invaded is all the evidence people need to say they were NEVER there. :rolleyes:

If the article is true the weapons were removed before the invasion and the intelligence agencies knew so it actually proves that Bush and Blair lied to take us to war.

Some of you people need to learn to read!

LINKY (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20060127/bs_ibd_ibd/2006126issues)

How very interesting that this story isn't getting much play. I mean, the media seems to have no problems reporting about how Bush supposedly mislead the country about the WMD's, but if there's even a hint that he wasn't, apparently it's a none story?

So basically, Saddam DID has WMD's, and sent them to Syria for safe keeping with the rest of HIS POLITICAL PARTY (Baath) and it hasn't gotten play on ANY major network (not even FOX)?

I mean, it's not like it was anyone important who said it, right? Not like it was the Israeli Intelligence, or a top General in the Iraqi military who actually claims to have done it, right? Oh wait.................

But anyway, who cares, because no matter what, Bush lied, right? AND the Israeli intelligence, AND the Turkish intelligence, AND British intelligence, AND Russian intelligence?

Couldn't have been Saddam lying, right?


Or maybe it's bullshit!

After all, it's not like they didn't already try to cover their butt on this with the Taha story who claimed that the last of the WMD was destroyed at an airfield - unbeknownst to anyone INCLUDING Saddam.

So, if she was right and the last of it was all destroyed, there wouldn't have been anything to move to Syria right? So you now have competing and mutually exclusive stories on what happened to it.

Oh yes, and you DO know that Sada retired from the Iraqi forces in the 80's right? Was re-instated briefly prior to Gulf War I but re-retired before the end of '90. So he was not operationally current for 15 years now.


Probably one of CurveBall's drinkin' buddies....


Oh yeah - BTW, he was also the guy who, acting as spokesperson for Alawi, recently said that for insurgents to target Americans was perfectly proper - if that tells you anything about his character. And of course, even though Iraq is now in the hands of Americans who might be interested in this story - he still refuses to divulge the names of the pilots and even though they have reportedly already left Iraq and so could be safely questioned.


Hey! Have you checked his profile with his agent? (http://generalgeorgessada.ambassadoragency.com/client_profile.cfm/cid/1225?categories_id=20)

Gosh, not only does he know where the WMD went, but he should also have his ass properly kissed because he PERSONALLY talked Saddam out of attacking Israel with WMD not once but TWICE!

Wow! This guy is fucking Superman! All hail him!


Now, given that all of the previous Intel from Iraqi ex-pats and ex-soldiers turned out to be *ahem* shall we say "poorly based in reality"? What the hell makes you think that this one is any MORE credible now? I mean, besides the fact that he is making money from selling a story that he refuses to allow be corroberated?

Now, given that all of the previous Intel from Iraqi ex-pats and ex-soldiers turned out to be *ahem* shall we say "poorly based in reality"? What the hell makes you think that this one is any MORE credible now? I mean, besides the fact that he is making money from selling a story that he refuses to allow be corroberated?

And of course there's absolutely no possibility that he has his own agenda which could include a vendetta now is there? Because of COURSE our several intelligence services would miss 56 shipments of chemical and biological weapons being moved to Syria. I mean, it's not like we're watching Syria of all places.

[QUOTE=Man in BlackHow very interesting that this story isn't getting much play. I mean, the media seems to have no problems reporting about how Bush supposedly mislead the country about the WMD's, but if there's even a hint that he wasn't, apparently it's a none story?

So basically, Saddam DID has WMD's, and sent them to Syria for safe keeping with the rest of HIS POLITICAL PARTY (Baath) and it hasn't gotten play on ANY major network (not even FOX)?

I mean, it's not like it was anyone important who said it, right? Not like it was the Israeli Intelligence, or a top General in the Iraqi military who actually claims to have done it, right? Oh wait.................

But anyway, who cares, because no matter what, Bush lied, right? AND the Israeli intelligence, AND the Turkish intelligence, AND British intelligence, AND Russian intelligence?

Couldn't have been Saddam lying, right?[/QUOTE]

Firstly, the Iraq Arms Survey group, and the British bot now say there was no weapons, and neither were any moved to any other nation. Secondly, the British intelligence released in the Butler report shows that they did not ever say definitively that he had any and that the version that the JIC and Blair released removed the various caveats and doubts that the professionals expressed.

Now go away.

I'm sorry, but I will not believe that Saddam - who seemed to actually believe that he would win a war against the US - would send WMD's out of the country just before the invasion. What would be the point of that? Do you really think he would trust the Syrian government? And if so, how come american intelligence did not learn of this befor the war, and haven't found anything after?

No, show me proof and not only uncorroborated statements, and I will change my mind. This is just a waste of time and energy.

I'm sorry, but I will not believe that Saddam - who seemed to actually believe that he would win a war against the US - would send WMD's out of the country just before the invasion. What would be the point of that? Do you really think he would trust the Syrian government? And if so, how come american intelligence did not learn of this befor the war, and haven't found anything after?

No, show me proof and not only uncorroborated statements, and I will change my mind. This is just a waste of time and energy.

Before the first Gulf War, Saddam sent certain items of military equipment to Iran. Among them, were a sizeable portion of his air and naval assets. They were sent with the understanding that Iran would hand them back when the war was over. After the war, Iran said, "What military equipment? I don't know what you're talking about. What? This stuff? Santa Claus brought it. We've been good boys and girls." :)

So on one side of the the coin, it's not THAT farfetched. On the other, you think Saddam would have learned a lesson after the last time.

What I question is why the U.S. Intelligence community didn't know that the WMDs were being shipped out. And if they did, and our priority(or so we were told) was finding and eliminating the WMD, why didn't we chase the stuff down instead of invading Iraq?

I'm not saying that Syria definately has it, but what I AM trying to do is to explain that the people who keep saying "No WMD's, Bush Lied" are only working of of unsubstantiated information, and that ANY proof offered towards the fact that they may have actually existed will be called more lies.

Did you notice how some people said "Oh yeah, well then that means Bush knew they went to Syria"

And someone else says "We would have known if they did" No doubt that same person has been one of the last year saying how stupid our intelligence agency is for botching it.

I'm simply making two poiints.


The media doesn't want the WMD's to exist. It would make them look bad.
People who hate Bush will only believe what makes Bush look bad.

I'm sorry, but I will not believe that Saddam - who seemed to actually believe that he would win a war against the US - would send WMD's out of the country just before the invasion. What would be the point of that? Do you really think he would trust the Syrian government? And if so, how come american intelligence did not learn of this befor the war, and haven't found anything after?

No, show me proof and not only uncorroborated statements, and I will change my mind. This is just a waste of time and energy.Simple...

[Conspiracy Theory] No one ever accused Saddam as being stupid, and going Head to Head with the US is stupid, especially when you have the UN ready to back em up. The plan, disarm the US by stripping them of their allies. So after GW I, he sends his WMD to Syria. Syria (a religious ally and perhaps secret partner) hides the weapons. Now Saddam is offering himself as sacrifical Lamb. he knows the US and the world will be watching him, so he orders reports of WMD developments to be delivered to him on a regularly basis, they're made to be ambigous, but not enought to hint of WMD's beind developed... knowing that Western spies would get a hold of these and not even verify it. so while the inspectors are here, he leads them around, limits who they can interview, and puts on a show that perhaps he might be hiding something. He probably hires some truckers to drive around from empty warehouses to other empty warehouses to make it even more suspicious. he leaves two Fassoud missles, modified, and makes an exscuse that their destruction was overlooked.

the US falls for it, hook line and sinker. Saddam Postures and prances... and when War is enevitable, he tries to get his Son's out but the attack nails them in Iraq.

so you have the war, with Saddam playing the decoy... he's caught, and put on trial, he knows the US won't kill him, that's why he didn't fight. but during this, no WMD's... the allies start going home, saying this is the US's Mess to clean up. support for the US dwindles.

now the Republican Guard, (most of whom are missing from the fighting) organize the resistance and insurgency... Syria tries to be silent but with their citizens willingly and on their own, sneak across to help drive the infidels out.

all this time, Korea (maybe unrelated) rattles sabers, and now Iran is getting the US's attention. so with the US without most of her allies, heavily critizied by her own citizens as well as the interantional community, with two more contries to watch out for... Syria is just waiting patiently for a time to strike. should it become known that Syria is invovled.... skeptisism will run high... "there goes the US again..." leaving Syria with weapons, and the US heavily and dangerously distracted.

Now why would Saddam sacrifice himself? well the invasion of Kuaite was to remove all records of the Billions he owed that country so that he could build his military machine. after that, he knew the US and the World would be watching him... blinding them from all else that moves (Syria.) He also knew the US won't kill him. so he allowed himself to be captured and after his people tire of the US forces, might even elect him back into office (tho perhaps he was hoping one of his sons would get that. so the end results. the US Credibility is hurt, the US is weakened in the International Community, he gets his country back, and his Ally, Syria, will side with him as he brings all the other middle eastern countries under Iraq Control. [/Conspiracy Theory]

and I hope you all enjoyed that bit of tale spinning. :D

I'm not saying that Syria definately has it, but what I AM trying to do is to explain that the people who keep saying "No WMD's, Bush Lied" are only working of of unsubstantiated information, and that ANY proof offered towards the fact that they may have actually existed will be called more lies.



Interesting idea, except of course that this offered "proof" is no more substantiated than any other that has come along. At least the other side of the argument can point to the fact that after exhaustive tracing of intel the IRaq Survey Group has categorically stated that they believe that all WMD WERE destroyed.

Before the first Gulf War, Saddam sent certain items of military equipment to Iran. Among them, were a sizeable portion of his air and naval assets. They were sent with the understanding that Iran would hand them back when the war was over. After the war, Iran said, "What military equipment? I don't know what you're talking about. What? This stuff? Santa Claus brought it. We've been good boys and girls." :)

So on one side of the the coin, it's not THAT farfetched. On the other, you think Saddam would have learned a lesson after the last time.

I hadn't heard of this before... Quick research led me to this site (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/air-force-equipment-intro.htm) and WikiPedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_War#Air_campaign). One important point is that the Iraqi planes that fled to Iran did so during the war, and not before. Seems to me that they were escaping destruction, and it may have been on their own and not authorized by Saddam.
During Operation Desert Storm the Iraqi Air Force did not seek to challenge Coalition air forces, and nearly half the Iraqi Air Force fled to Iran to escape destruction. Why the IQAF fled to Iran is not precisely known, and the answer may never be fully known. In any case, Iraqi fighters and support aircraft fled for the border -- more than 120 left. Over 200 aircraft were destroyed on Iraqi airfields, and hardened laser-guided bombs devastated Iraq's hardened aircraft shelters.
I honestly have difficulties believing that Saddam would order his planes there, considering that the war between Iran and Iraq (that cost more than one million lives) ended only about two and a half years before.

If you've got some recomended reading or links regarding this, I am prepared to be corrected :)

But I still do not believe that he would send any WMD's out of the country before the war.

If you've got some recomended reading or links regarding this, I am prepared to be corrected :)

But I still do not believe that he would send any WMD's out of the country before the war.
if he had them, and used em, or was caught with them. all the UN member nations would've joined in for it was a clear violation of the UN Santions. but if he didn't use em, and sent them away so that none were found, then the US would look stupid and loose their standing. In other words, he would sacrifice himself to allow a fellow Baath/theocratical nation to gain an advantage. After all, like it or not, the world does depend on the US to be the world's police.

But I still do not believe that he would send any WMD's out of the country before the war.

I'll agree with you on this. I don't think they were shipped anywhere. I think they were destroyed before 1998.

But IF there were WMDs being shipped out of country, why didn't the CIA know? And if they DID know, why didn't we target them?

So even if there WERE WMDs in Iraq and they were shipped to Syria, I'm still not prepared to let the CIA or the Administration off the hook.

I'll agree with you on this. I don't think they were shipped anywhere. I think they were destroyed before 1998.

But IF there were WMDs being shipped out of country, why didn't the CIA know? And if they DID know, why didn't we target them?

So even if there WERE WMDs in Iraq and they were shipped to Syria, I'm still not prepared to let the CIA or the Administration off the hook.
agreed, no matter what, the CIA and the Rest of the Intelligence community did drop the ball.

if he had them, and used em, or was caught with them. all the UN member nations would've joined in for it was a clear violation of the UN Santions. but if he didn't use em, and sent them away so that none were found, then the US would look stupid and loose their standing. In other words, he would sacrifice himself to allow a fellow Baath/theocratical nation to gain an advantage. After all, like it or not, the world does depend on the US to be the world's police.

Well, I have to disagree. I don't believe Saddam was the kind of guy who was prepared to sacrifice himself, not for a "fellow baathist" - not for anything really.

I would rather imagine that if he had them he would have used them, and justified it as self-defence and hoped to survive and create an image of himself as an international strong-man or something like that.


But IF there were WMDs being shipped out of country, why didn't the CIA know? And if they DID know, why didn't we target them?

So even if there WERE WMDs in Iraq and they were shipped to Syria, I'm still not prepared to let the CIA or the Administration off the hook.

Good questions ;)

Well, I have to disagree. I don't believe Saddam was the kind of guy who was prepared to sacrifice himself, not for a "fellow baathist" - not for anything really.
and we used to believe that no one would intentionally fly a plane full of civilian passengers into a building.

who knows what lurks in the twisted minds of fanatics.

However, mine is only a possibility, a 'what if' baised on observations and no real proof.

I've held this theory for a while now...and this is interesting.

Some of you people need to learn to read!

It seems to support my summary: There were no WMD in Iraq and we knew it.

Sada claims Saddam simply flew the WMD out of Iraq in two hollowed-out Boeing jets, making 56 trips in all. He also sent WMD out on trucks.

So they'd left Iraq before the invasion.

Israel had intelligence showing that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents (WMD) from Iraq to Syria."

And we knew they'd left.

So, please explain how my conclusion is erronious.

Oh wait! President Bush himself has stated that there were no WMDs and that the intelligence was faulty. There have been numorus reports that state, well, dang it all to heck, we was wrong and that Saddam didn't have anything.

You need to learn to read yourself.

I'll repeat myself from another thread. Personally, I think this scenario is still the most likely...moreso anyway than all sorts of conspiracies of brown-skinned people with each other.

I think that Saddam tried to get his program back up again after the Kuwait War, but the sanctions meant that after a while there were no resources left for it. He had to channel funds, imports and so on on keeping his military going, and himself in power.
So he ended the program, but obviously didn't want anyone to know. In his deluded state, he probably assumed that he was seen as more powerful and fearsome if others thought he still had WMDs. That's why he didn't want the UN to look, that's why he played the game as if he still had them.

There's a problem with your theory, Man In Black--the Syrian and Iraqi Ba'ath parties split before 2000. I don't like citing Wikipedia, but it was the first place I could find the mention. Under the heading "The Iraq-based Ba'ath Party," the first sentence reads "Iraqi and Syrian Ba'thism today differ widely and partially oppose each other, though they only split a long time after their creation."

No doubt Iraq and Syria are on better diplomatic terms than, say, Syria and Israel, but it's not like Saddam and Assad were best buddies.

There's a problem with your theory, Man In Black--the Syrian and Iraqi Ba'ath parties split before 2000. I don't like citing Wikipedia, but it was the first place I could find the mention. Under the heading "The Iraq-based Ba'ath Party," the first sentence reads "Iraqi and Syrian Ba'thism today differ widely and partially oppose each other, though they only split a long time after their creation."

No doubt Iraq and Syria are on better diplomatic terms than, say, Syria and Israel, but it's not like Saddam and Assad were best buddies.

...something the fact that Syria was a member of the coalition that liberated Kuwait and invaded Iraq in 1991 also could indicate. ;)

...something the fact that Syria was a member of the coalition that liberated Kuwait and invaded Iraq in 1991 also could indicate. ;)
Honestly, I'd forgotten that. Well, for those people who are so sold on the rightness of the Gulf War, facts never get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Some of you people need to learn to read!

and some of you people need to learn to read between the lines.

And speaking of reading between the lines, why does everyone bash Wikipedia? Wikipedia is an excellent source of information, a standpoint corroborated by the journal Nature's recent review. They found that in all except 3/40 cases the content was comparable to Encyclopedia Brittanica. And those 3 were all commercial, unless I incorrectly don't recall not incorrectly.