NationStates Jolt Archive

I am an Atheist but let us assume, for the sake of intial argument, that God created the universe. I can understand the principle that God said "be" and all of the atoms came into being, the big bang, formation of Galaxies, the earth the oceans, monkeys etc followed afterwards. With this argument however I see it is perfectly possible that the evolution of humans from apes and God and be compatible (otherwise hominid fossils wouldn't be in the earth, what would be the point?). The bit I don't get is that God after creating this huge train set of a universe would he look down on earth and think "people, ooh how intersting". After doing that why would God lay down rules for human beings and answer prayers or care what we do etc.

Plus although we can observe the natural world around us we cannot observe heaven and hell. Why should you assume it exists? The only evidence for this relies on ancient tradition and superstition. It is on this point that I cannot empathise, I may see the point in God, I see no need for religion.

Well, I'm a somewhat lapsed Christian, but I'd like to at least give you something that resembles an answer.

First, the bit on why to believe in God when there's no evidence. That's the meaning of faith, believing in something where there is no evidence either way. It's not exactly in the rationalist strain of thought, but most every religion is based on faith. There's no compelling scientific evidence in favor of the existence of a deity or not. So, yeah. It's an odd answer, espescially to sceptics, but that's how it works.

Basically how I understand how people got special attention is that God wanted folks around who weren't the annoying syncophants that the angels were. He wanted respect and praise from someone who could choose to do otherwise.

And of course the argument that evolution fits in with creationism does indeed work. You can read all sorts of things into the creation story very easily, because like so many other things in the Judeo-Christian holy writings it's a metaphor.

But, that's just how I view it.

You mean why does he care about people after creating such an awesome universe?

I think that he'd be quite interested, that after billions of years something incredible happened in a little blue/green rock on the outskirts of a random galaxy...that evolution tooks its course and you have a species of animals that can walk, talk, think for itself, and come up with complex ideas (relative to the other stuff on this planet).

I mean really. If you suddenly see a couple of ants talking to each other, wouldn't you throw whatever you were doing and just watch 'em?

And regarding set rules...it's all a mystery. Who knows what's true when God meets man? Perhaps God is a jerk.

The bit I don't get is that God after creating this huge train set of a universe would he look down on earth and think "people, ooh how intersting". After doing that why would God lay down rules for human beings and answer prayers or care what we do etc.You've obviously never played a god-sim..
And in that case the 'beings' aren't even in any way real or sentient.

The end of the universe is when god gets bored and turns it off.

I doubt that I can answer your question to your satisfaction, although I don't believe that humans would be able to "observe" heaven or hell because I don't believe that they are physical places like we are used to observing. To answer the rest of it, I have faith that there is a God and that He is all knowing, all powerful and that He created me for a purpose that is beyond my understanding.

I am an Atheist but let us assume, for the sake of intial argument, that God created the universe. I can understand the principle that God said "be" and all of the atoms came into being, the big bang, formation of Galaxies, the earth the oceans, monkeys etc followed afterwards. With this argument however I see it is perfectly possible that the evolution of humans from apes and God and be compatible (otherwise hominid fossils wouldn't be in the earth, what would be the point?). The bit I don't get is that God after creating this huge train set of a universe would he look down on earth and think "people, ooh how intersting". After doing that why would God lay down rules for human beings and answer prayers or care what we do etc.

Plus although we can observe the natural world around us we cannot observe heaven and hell. Why should you assume it exists? The only evidence for this relies on ancient tradition and superstition. It is on this point that I cannot empathise, I may see the point in God, I see no need for religion.
Religions are for, and about, us, not God. Whether or not God cares, the religious person does what they do for themselves and the good of other people.

You shouldn't feel you have to assume that heaven, hell or even God exist. If you believe, you will have your reasons.

This question has already been answered better than I would be able to. I'd just like to thank you for being respectful to other's beliefs. All of you!

A concept all religious posters ought to consider. Disregarding the entirely falletic notion that God is inherently benevolent, why should God care? Intelligent Design is untenable, unscientific, and substantiated by medieval theology, and criticism of Darwinism, and accordingly, if the divine exists, we are akin to the insects that cavort at our feet, entirely inadvertant, and therefore, since God created man in his image, if we care notf or those who symbiotically live with us, why does God care?

A concept all religious posters ought to consider. Disregarding the entirely falletic notion that God is inherently benevolent, why should God care? Intelligent Design is untenable, unscientific, and substantiated by medieval theology, and criticism of Darwinism, and accordingly, if the divine exists, we are akin to the insects that cavort at our feet, entirely inadvertant, and therefore, since God created man in his image, if we care notf or those who symbiotically live with us, why does God care?
God cares because we do.

Religions are for, and about, us, not God. Whether or not God cares, the religious person does what they do for themselves and the good of other people.

You shouldn't feel you have to assume that heaven, hell or even God exist. If you believe, you will have your reasons.

Well, since he is asking about Christian theology, I would say that it is just the opposite when it comes to the Christian God. It is all about Him for us. Any Christian who tells you differently, hasn't studied their Bible much, not have they attended church all that often. Sure, there are some preachers who preach that self-esteem is the ail of man, but those are preachers who don't preach the Bible that they claim they believe in.

Yeah, from an outside looking in point of view, you can make that conclusion. Granted your conclusion may be valid or invalid, I am not going to say one way or another, because I don't know how you reached your conclusion. I will say that it doesn't address actual Christian doctrine in any way, shape, or form. Christian doctrine, in fact, states the opposite about the the purpose of religion.

God cares because we do.

About your fellow man, or the creatures so irrefutably and acutely inferior to you that thye are unworthy of your attention?:rolleyes:

Please do not over simplify this affair, substantiate said claim.

The way I see it is that God set this whole thing up and watched where it went.

When it became evident that one evolutionary line had thrown up a species capable of conceptual thought and organisation he considered them almost children. After all, you want a child to be all they can be, to go out and explore the world.

I think God probably felt a little like that, but as the humans of the times were primitive in their culture and science he wanted to guide them into a full system of morality an civilisation.

Given the difference between us, God practically is playing The Sims because he is as far beyond us as we are beyond the characters on that screen.

This is part analogy, part conjecure and part faith, take it as you will...

About your fellow man, or the creatures so irrefutably and acutely inferior to you that thye are unworthy of your attention?:rolleyes:

Please do not over simplify this affair, substantiate said claim.
Sorry. I find it easier to address a strawman by making a brush than feeding its flames.

"...if the divine exists, we are akin to the insects that cavort at our feet..." is the strawman. To presume that because we are made in God's image and ignore insects of infintesimal size, God must be proportionally larger and ignore us is fallacy.

To answer your question, God cares because we do. We are, according to the mythology, made in his spiritual image, not him in ours. Hence, because we care (a spiritual characteristic), we know he does also. He is propotional to us not in physical appearance but in spirit; the analogy of size is irrelevant, as spirit has no dimensions.

Perhaps it is all part of the master plan.

Just speaking hypothetically, the entire human race could have been 'designed' to provide slave labor- and thus a springboard to even greater technological achievement- to a technologically advanced race, which will conquer the earth in, oh, about five minutes after you read this post.

Well, since he is asking about Christian theology, I would say that it is just the opposite when it comes to the Christian God. It is all about Him for us. Any Christian who tells you differently, hasn't studied their Bible much, not have they attended church all that often. Sure, there are some preachers who preach that self-esteem is the ail of man, but those are preachers who don't preach the Bible that they claim they believe in.

Yeah, from an outside looking in point of view, you can make that conclusion. Granted your conclusion may be valid or invalid, I am not going to say one way or another, because I don't know how you reached your conclusion. I will say that it doesn't address actual Christian doctrine in any way, shape, or form. Christian doctrine, in fact, states the opposite about the the purpose of religion.
I have not studied the religion, so I respect your opinion; but from what I have heard, mainly from other Christians on this board, Jesus/God died to absolve us of sin in God's eyes. This is not a "Him for us" symbol, as nice a gesture as it seems on the surface. God created the very problem he resolves by self-sacrifice.

But I was referring to the rituals, the prayers, the laws laid down that were mentioned in the original post. Those were put in place by man, for man, as an expression of, reinforcement of, and support of his relationship to God. This is where I was coming from.

In general God is thought to care about humans because that's what he created the universe for. A lot of the less radical ID arguments look in the rules of the universe for evidence of tailoring, and that's basically where said evidence would be.

Other reasons, however, are often more interesting. For example, what if said being is not in fact omnipotent but is empowered by belief, so that the more people believe in him the more powerful he is. That would explain his actions much better than many other explanations.

I just don't get Theology, peroid.

Religion is annoying for me, usually. People act all "ROLFIAMSOBETTERTEHNj00LEWEL" because of it.

As long as they keep there dirty little paws off me and my thought processes, I suppose I don't care.

I have not studied the religion, so I respect your opinion; but from what I have heard, mainly from other Christians on this board, Jesus/God died to absolve us of sin in God's eyes. This is not a "Him for us" symbol, as nice a gesture as it seems on the surface. God created the very problem he resolves by self-sacrifice.
*Quick butt-in time*

The notion of Jesus the Sacrifice is a pretty Lewisian one that people just seem to have taken to heart. There are plenty of other, more coherent explanations. For instance, there's the notion that Jesus's death and resurrection was God's way of putting his seal of approval on his teachings. There's also the idea that the crucifixion was a message to the people of Israel to stop sitting around on their arses waiting to be rescued, and the notion that the abstract way in which Jesus came back again was deliberately supposed to instill a little uncertainty to deny complete proof and encourage a faith of works. But the God of "Vengeance And Love" is one that I think many people look over then move on past.