NationStates Jolt Archive

So the Mexican government is going to help it's citizens violate US borders and US law? Well, maybe the US should give out free maps to Mexican prostitution and drug hotspots for tourists who want to break Mexican law. Fair is fair, right?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20060126-122353-4108r.htm

I thought this was old news:confused:

I thought this was old news:confused:
Sorry if it is. I just saw it today.

So the Mexican government is going to help it's citizens violate US borders and US law? Well, maybe the US should give out free maps to Mexican prostitution and drug hotspots for tourists who want to break Mexican law. Fair is fair, right?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20060126-122353-4108r.htm

How is sending Americans to Mexican brothels and drug dens a good idea?

How is sending Americans to Mexican brothels and drug dens a good idea?
How is sending illegal Mexican aliens into the US a good idea?

So the Mexican government is going to help it's citizens violate US borders and US law? Well, maybe the US should give out free maps to Mexican prostitution and drug hotspots for tourists who want to break Mexican law. Fair is fair, right?

It would do wonders for tourism. Although prostitution is legal, so you'll have to look for a better example. And the drugs aren't that good. Not that you'd get much of a reaction either way.

Sending more spring breakers would be a much better way to piss off the Mexicans. Also increasing the price of the beef you export to Mexico.

I think we need to build that wall to keep these illegal aliens out of this country.

Surely a better solution would be an illegal immigrant tax: funnel them in through a narrow entrance, charge an entrance fee and then confuse them with misleading signposts until they wander back into Mexico. Don't forget the opportunities for merchandising on the way.

*nods sagely*

How is sending illegal Mexican aliens into the US a good idea?

cheap labor -- what America's built on! cheap labor = cheaper product = can sell it for cheaper = can sell more of it = exploitation is capitalism at its finest! yayy! :)

I think we need to build that wall to keep these illegal aliens out of this country.
Yeah, but since it'll probably be built by illegal aliens they'll make sure to leave a lot of holes.

Oh, more whining about illegal aliens. To hear some of you people talk, your mom was raped by an illegal alien.

Anyone else read the article or was it just me?

"Without a doubt, these maps will enable many lives to be saved," Mauricio Farah, an inspector with the NHRC said in Mexico City. "We are not trying in any way to encourage or promote migration. The only thing we are trying to do is warn them of the risks they face and where to get water, so they don't die."

Mexican officials also said that the posters would warn potential emigrants not to believe promises of an easy journey from smugglers. "Don't Do It," the posters say. "It's Hard. There's Not Enough Water."

Sounds like saying "don't do it" is hardly incouragement.

Terrain, cell-phone coverage and water stations set up by the U.S. charity Humane Borders, would help to save lives.

...and also secret plans on how to Infiltrate American Government, Steal American Jobs, and Take American Women!

I mean sure, they claim it's about saving lives, but we KNOW it's about stealin' our jobs! Right? Right?

Hundreds of Mexicans die every year while crossing the southern U.S. border illegally in search of a better life in the United States.

That's a lie! It's perfectly safe and there's no reason to try to make it safer!

note with red dots where migrants have died in the past and mark the location of water stations and emergency beacons set up by U.S. authorities.

Aha! See, the US authorities are ALSO assisting them illegals! How dare they, the traitors!

Hundreds of Mexicans die every year while crossing the southern U.S. border illegally in search of a better life in the United States.
That's a lie! It's perfectly safe and there's no reason to try to make it safer!
You're half right, there is no reason to make it safer, but many reasons to make it more difficult.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the Mexican government, rather than shipping it's people into our country, focus on fixing what's driving them here in the first place?

Or does that make too much sense?

Aha! See, the US authorities are ALSO assisting them illegals! How dare they, the traitors!
You are absolutely correct on this one.

Don't ya hate it when sarcasm falls flat like that?

I think we need to build that wall to keep these illegal aliens out of this country.

I'd be fine with this... if everyone who cannot prove 'Native' ancestry leaves.

I think we need a gameshow. Every week, a dozen or so Mexicans try to be come immigrants, but have to cross minefields, and other nasty obsticles.

And if they win, they get 5,000$ and US citizenship. The rest will be dead.

I wonder if HBO would be interested.

Vegetarianistica']cheap labor -- what America's built on! cheap labor = cheaper product = can sell it for cheaper = can sell more of it = exploitation is capitalism at its finest! yayy! :)
Yeah, thanks for that. Cheap labor keeps America's working poor and welfare recipients in the gutter.

May be old news, but very disturbing. We should porbably ask Mexico if they want to join the Union. Then, maybe we wouldn't have this problem. Though their government needs to be shot:sniper: :cool:

I'd be fine with this... if everyone who cannot prove 'Native' ancestry leaves.
Do you honestly believe that those people who oppose illegal immigration are opposed to all immigrants?

And no-one could prove native ancestry anyway, everyone migrated here at some time.

May be old news, but very disturbing. We should porbably ask Mexico if they want to join the Union. Then, maybe we wouldn't have this problem. Though their government needs to be shot:sniper: :cool:

Red text and gun smilie?

I give it a 6.4 on the n00bness scale.

I think we need a gameshow. Every week, a dozen or so Mexicans try to be come immigrants, but have to cross minefields, and other nasty obsticles.

And if they win, they get 5,000$ and US citizenship. The rest will be dead.

I wonder if HBO would be interested.
That would be the greatest game show since the "Reign of Terror" went off the air in France. Sure, the spin-off, "White Terror", carried a similar theme, but it just didn't have quite the zing or publicity that the original had.

That would be the greatest game show since the "Reign of Terror" went off the air in France. Sure, the spin-off, "White Terror", carried a similar theme, but it just didn't have quite the zing or publicity that the original had.

Yeah. Too bad my reception was so crappy back then. All o' those rolling heads would have been funny.

There are many fun things you can do with a human head.

Do you honestly believe that those people who oppose illegal immigration are opposed to all immigrants?

And no-one could prove native ancestry anyway, everyone migrated here at some time.

If we carry out a war on all those who come into this land uninvited, then there are SOME people here who have about 11,000 years of better claim to this territory than the four-hundred-year-old plague of European immigration.

So - if we are really making this a moral high-ground issue, anyone who is not an American Indian (let's be fair about it.... ENOUGH 'native' blood to be able to register as Native), should get the hell out.

There are many fun things you can do with a human head.
*takes it the wrong way*
. . . mmm . . . yes, there are, aren't there?

May be old news, but very disturbing. We should porbably ask Mexico if they want to join the Union. Then, maybe we wouldn't have this problem. Though their government needs to be shot:sniper: :cool:

Actually, I agree with part of this.

If Mexico were annexed to the United States, the southern border would become MUCH smaller, and the number of people migrating out of Mexico to the US would rapidly diminish (one has only to look at the relative stability of New Mexico and Texas).

Mexico gets a lot of money from its ex-pats who send money back home. Mexico wants to get its residents out of poverty so it is doing what's best for its citizens, though they risk death and imprisonment.

*takes it the wrong way*
. . . mmm . . . yes, there are, aren't there?

Indeed, such as....

Bowling
Volleyball
Basketball
Roller Hockey
Soccer
Paperweight
Desk Lamp
Centerpiece
Blernsball
Oral Sex
Cupholder
Soup Bowl

I'm sure I forgot many.

Indeed, such as....

Bowling
Volleyball
Basketball
Roller Hockey
Soccer
Paperweight
Desk Lamp
Centerpiece
Blernsball
Oral Sex
Cupholder
Soup Bowl

I'm sure I forgot many.
Oral sex? As in, only using the mouth? You are a very poor and deprived child, some day we must go through a morgue and play some happy games together.

You're half right, there is no reason to make it safer, but many reasons to make it more difficult.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the Mexican government, rather than shipping it's people into our country, focus on fixing what's driving them here in the first place?

Wouldn't it make sense to realize that saving hundreds of lives a year is actually a good thing, even if they're just Mexicans?

Or does THAT make too much sense.


You are absolutely correct on this one.

Don't ya hate it when sarcasm falls flat like that?

No, I love it when I make fun of xenophobic assholes who think the US government is "betraying its people," and then one comes along and fits the description perfectly. Saves me the trouble of convincing skeptics that yes, there ARE people like you out there.

Oral sex? As in, only using the mouth? You are a very poor and deprived child, some day we must go through a morgue and play some happy games together.

We should bring some of our friends. We could have nice fun together with the rotting flesh!

Wouldn't it make sense to realize that saving hundreds of lives a year is actually a good thing, even if they're just Mexicans?
The problem isn't that they are Mexicans, the problem is that htey are purposefully commiting a crime.
It's like handing bullet proof vests out to rapists. I mean, they're going to rape anyway, why should they risk their lives while doing so? Why should people have to suffer for their own actions?

The problem isn't that they are Mexicans, the problem is that htey are purposefully commiting a crime.
It's like handing bullet proof vests out to rapists. I mean, they're going to rape anyway, why should they risk their lives while doing so? Why should people have to suffer for their own actions?

The Horror!

...and also secret plans on how to Infiltrate American Government, Steal American Jobs, and Take American Women!

I mean sure, they claim it's about saving lives, but we KNOW it's about stealin' our jobs! Right? Right?


they offset the censuses and allow states with high amounts of illegals to hold more political weight by gaining seats in the government. it's a problem with how our census is run as well, but it would defeat the purpose, and probably violate a few rights along the way, to demand that we check the immigration status of every person interviewed for the census.

regardless, it's not 'stealing' jobs. that argument really only held true in the case of the hurricane building being contracted out to illegals over local builders. what the problem with this is that while people break the law by hiring illegals (our fault), the wages that are being paid to these people keep the demand for these jobs down. Sure, nobody wants to work in the food industry, for example, because it pais horribly. Our standard of living in the USA is much higher than that of a Mexican, which is why they are so happy to work for 4$/hr. It's not that americans WON't do the job, they just wont do it for nothing.

And before anyone goes off on a rant about it's workers' greed, working class Americans are hit the hardest, making between 20 and 30k/ yr. If you have an apartment with $1000/mo for rent (which is impossible to find, usually is about 1500 and up, unless you live in a slum, and even then...), that leaves a family with 8k to 18k /yr. That has to cover food, travel, clothing, plus your family. So if anyone wants to use workers' greed as an argument, youre pretty much saying they should all live in communities for shared rent in one apartment so that they can get by, just like the illegals do.

They affect our crime rate, they send money back to Mexico to support their families (that they work hard for, it's not that theyre doing anything wrong by it except break the law by being here, but it still sucks for our economy). Yea honorable I suppose, but it's yet another thing that causes us to retain our national deficits.

And of course the Mexican gov't isn't gonna stop it. Their economy sucks.

It's our problem and we should take action against it and anyone who prevents us from UPHOLDING OUR LAWS.

So the Mexican government is going to help it's citizens violate US borders and US law? Well, maybe the US should give out free maps to Mexican prostitution and drug hotspots for tourists who want to break Mexican law. Fair is fair, right?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20060126-122353-4108r.htm

The maps aren't for breaking US law. The Mexicans are doing that already. The maps are to ensure that the individuals who choose to violate the law don't get lost in a desert and die of dehydration.

It's a humanitarian concern, much like the US based groups that leave water and such for illegals.

The maps aren't for breaking US law. The Mexicans are doing that already. The maps are to ensure that the individuals who choose to violate the law don't get lost in a desert and die of dehydration.

It's a humanitarian concern, much like the US based groups that leave water and such for illegals.

should we give bullet proof jackets to bank robbers?

the bullet proof jackets aren't breaking the law, the robbers are doing that already. The jackets are to ensure that the individuals who choose to violate the law don't get killed by a bullet.

It's a humanitarian concern too.

Mexico gets a lot of money from its ex-pats who send money back home. Mexico wants to get its residents out of poverty so it is doing what's best for its citizens, though they risk death and imprisonment.
It's doing what's best for its politicians. Pandering to the poor masses is much easier than trying to come up with solutions to the economic problems and systemic corruption in the country.

By the way, that money is now the third largest source of foreign currency in Mexico, so you can bet someone is getting very very very rich from all this. And no, it's not the farmer's wife who stayed behind with the children.

The problem isn't that they are Mexicans, the problem is that htey are purposefully commiting a crime.
You'd be surprised to know that crossing the border like that is not a crime. It's just an administrative fault, like jaywalking or peeing in a back alley.

It's like handing bullet proof vests out to rapists. I mean, they're going to rape anyway, why should they risk their lives while doing so? Why should people have to suffer for their own actions?
And not even near the same category as these here.

Do you have any sense of proportion?

Well, maybe the US should give out free maps to Mexican prostitution and drug hotspots for tourists who want to break Mexican law.
Write your Congressman.

Write your Congressman.
He's tired of hearing from me. Doesn't even send form letters anymore.

Do you have any sense of proportion?

in the sense of law, its pretty black and white. theres no proportion necessary. its the same argument. in both case, you're aiding and abeting a crime. if you think it's ok to break the law then it should be ok to do anything in any case, because it's ok. do you have any sense of proportion?

And no, it's not like jaywalking. Some countries would shoot you for crossing into their borders without cause.

So the Mexican government is going to help it's citizens violate US borders and US law? Well, maybe the US should give out free maps to Mexican prostitution and drug hotspots for tourists who want to break Mexican law. Fair is fair, right?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20060126-122353-4108r.htm


heh..we should all migrate to mexico and see how they like it :p

heh..we should all migrate to mexico and see how they like it :p
Damn straight. It's starting to get cold in NJ again. I could use an enchilada (http://alumni.byu.edu/aspengrove/agimages/food/larger/enchilada.JPG)and a dos equis (http://www.dosxx.com/) in the warm sun.

He's tired of hearing from me. Doesn't even send form letters anymore.
And so, what conclusion do you draw from that, DCD?

should we give bullet proof jackets to bank robbers?

the bullet proof jackets aren't breaking the law, the robbers are doing that already. The jackets are to ensure that the individuals who choose to violate the law don't get killed by a bullet.

It's a humanitarian concern too.

That's a false comparision. Bank robbers pose a distinct threat to the wellbeing of a community, as they are armed, dangerous and robbing people.

Illegal Migrants are people who want to live somewhere else but don't have the proper papers.

One of those crimes is closer to deserving death than the other. I think you know which one it is.

And as it stands we DO have humanitarian concerns for bank robbers. Tis why we try to talk them down and use non or less-than-lethal weapons, only reverting to deadly force when absolutely neccisary.

in the sense of law, its pretty black and white. theres no proportion necessary. its the same argument. in both case, you're aiding and abeting a crime. if you think it's ok to break the law then it should be ok to do anything in any case, because it's ok. do you have any sense of proportion?
So, would you apply the same punishment to someone who jaywalks and someone who murders 12 people? They both would be criminals in your eyes, they broke the law.

Yes, you either follow the law or you break the law, but not all laws are the same and not all of them carry the same weight. To argue that somebody who jumps a border is somebody who will just as easily murder is as ludicrous as saying that a person who makes a wrong left turn will just as easily rape children.

See? That's proportion.

By the way, that crossing the border illegaly is not a crime but an administrative fault is not my opinion, that's how it's codified in the US law.

And no, it's not like jaywalking. Some countries would shoot you for crossing into their borders without cause.
And some countries would regulate your internet access and prohibit you from posting in foums. What's your point?

That's a false comparision. Bank robbers pose a distinct threat to the wellbeing of a community, as they are armed, dangerous and robbing people.

Illegal Migrants are people who want to live somewhere else but don't have the proper papers.

One of those crimes is closer to deserving death than the other. I think you know which one it is.


we don't shoot the illegals. we don't sentence them to death. they know the risks they take when they choose to break the law. why should we make their part easier?

and illegals do pose a threat to the well being of a community. read what I wrote earlier about the political and economic repercussions. And illegals in border states have also caused a lot of crime too. Not all, just some.

So, would you apply the same punishment to someone who jaywalks and someone who murders 12 people? They both would be criminals in your eyes, they broke the law.

Yes, you either follow the law or you break the law, but not all laws are the same and not all of them carry the same weight.


then don't throw the argument that crossing the border is equal to jaywalking or administrative error. its much more. it's a breech of our security. that's why we have customs, that's why we have immigration centers, and its why we have a border patrol. we don't have a special jaywalking police.

besides, punishment must match the crime. I didn't say that breaking the law on any level deserves the same amount of punishment. don't put words in my mouth. I said that you either break the law or don't. If any given law can be overlooked then the legal system is moot. System of punishment is completely irrelevant. you shouldn't help someone break the law. And you should be punished accordingly.

then don't throw the argument that crossing the border is equal to jaywalking or administrative error. its much more. it's a breech of our security. that's why we have customs, that's why we have immigration centers, and its why we have a border patrol. we don't have a special jaywalking police.
I didn't say it's administrative error, I said it's an administrative fault. You're disobeying an administrative law, not a criminal one. That there's no jaywalking police, and in almost all cases not even a punishment, doesn't mean there's no law against jaywalking.

If you feel it SHOULD be a crime write to your congressman to change the law and have it codified as such. As it stands, it's not criminal behaviour, that why there are no punishments, no penalties, and no record.

besides, punishment must match the crime. I didn't say that breaking the law on any level deserves the same amount of punishment. don't put words in my mouth. I said that you either break the law or don't. If any given law can be overlooked then the legal system is moot. System of punishment is completely irrelevant. you shouldn't help someone break the law. And you should be punished accordingly.
And I didn't say that crossing the border illegaly is not breaking the law. It's just not a crime, and as such it's not punishable as a crime. You seem to know very little about law, but you can only punish the breaking of a law in the way that the specific law itself says there should be a punishment. If the law doesn't specify a punishment or there's no law regulating some kind of behaviour, then there's no punishment. Does this make this law moot? Maybe in some cases. Does this make every law moot? No, that's facetious.

In the case of aiding an illegal immigrant, there's no law against it, and therefore no punishment. In the case of being an illegal immigrant there's no punishment other than being sent back to the country of origin, and the law is an administrative one, not a penal one, so there can be no penal punishment.

If you want to change the way illegal immigrants are handled you will have to change the law. You can say that illegal immigration SHOULD be a crime and that aiding illegal immigrant SHOULD be a crime, but the fact remains that it IS NOT.

And so, what conclusion do you draw from that, DCD?
I'm a very politically involved citizen?

http://www.mexautos.com/ht/greenberg21.jpg

Now they are going to stop giving out the maps.

But not because the US Gov. is bitching but because they're afraid people will get attacked by the Minutemen.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060126/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_migrant_maps

Now they are going to stop giving out the maps.

But not because the US Gov. is bitching but because they're afraid people will get attacked by the Minutemen.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060126/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_migrant_maps
Why? Minutemen haven't attacked anyone yet.

Why? Minutemen haven't attacked anyone yet.

But the "Migrants Rights" groups claim they have.

But the "Migrants Rights" groups claim they have.
Yeah, but without evidence I don't give them any more credence than those weirdos who believe that there was no holocaust.

And I didn't say that crossing the border illegaly is not breaking the law. It's just not a crime, and as such it's not punishable as a crime. You seem to know very little about law, but you can only punish the breaking of a law in the way that the specific law itself says there should be a punishment. If the law doesn't specify a punishment or there's no law regulating some kind of behaviour, then there's no punishment


not a crime? try a federal crime. Fines, jailtime and all. so much for not knowing law, eh?

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/isacrime.html

:headbang:

Yeah, but without evidence I don't give them any more credence than those weirdos who believe that there was no holocaust.
Well, the Minutemen are a bunch of gun-toting vigilantes who have taken it upon themselves to patrol the Mexican border, and they are from where? Texas? Sounds like a good enough reason to be suspicious of them to me.

Well, the Minutemen are a bunch of gun-toting vigilantes who have taken it upon themselves to patrol the Mexican border, and they are from where? Texas? Sounds like a good enough reason to be suspicious of them to me.
I tote a gun. I'm a wop from New Jersey. Does that mean I'm automatically some kind of gangster?

Well, the Minutemen are a bunch of gun-toting vigilantes who have taken it upon themselves to patrol the Mexican border, and they are from where? Texas? Sounds like a good enough reason to be suspicious of them to me.

Do you have a realiable source? Last I heard they were from border towns in ARZ, New Mex., and Texas - furthermore I heard they were only reporting sightings to the border patrol.

Do you have a realiable source? Last I heard they were from border towns in ARZ, New Mex., and Texas - furthermore I heard they were only reporting sightings to the border patrol.

That is what I heard too. The Border Patrol likes the Minutemen.

I tote a gun. I'm a wop from New Jersey. Does that mean I'm automatically some kind of gangster?
If you rode around all day looking for hobos in places they shouldn't be.

That is what I heard too. The Border Patrol likes the Minutemen.

Some civil liberties groups are having fits though..

I agree that humans come first, but they are still breaking the law by illegally enterting this country.

The Border Patrol likes the Minutemen.

if true, that only means that the border patrol people have come out in favor of neo-nazis and and white supremacists. good for them, i guess

if true, that only means that the border patrol people have come out in favor of neo-nazis and and white supremacists. good for them, i guess


Any more false stereotypes from the "progressives"?

Some civil liberties groups are having fits though..

I agree that humans come first, but they are still breaking the law by illegally enterting this country.

Agreed. These people are doing the border patrol a favor and alerting them of when these people enter our country.

God Bless these law abiding citizens.

As to the human rights groups, forget them. If they want to allow the illegals to violate the law then they can't be worth listening too.

if true, that only means that the border patrol people have come out in favor of neo-nazis and and white supremacists. good for them, i guess

Nice Sarcasm.

if true, that only means that the border patrol people have come out in favor of neo-nazis and and white supremacists. good for them, i guess

As far as I've read on the subject, it seems the "minutemen" are divided on this. There are a good number of supremists and `fascists` but theres also a good deal of people who aren't for either..

Agreed. These people are doing the border patrol a favor and alerting them of when these people enter our country.

God Bless these law abiding citizens.

Agreed.

heh..we should all migrate to mexico and see how they like it :p

of course, you are already allowed to go down there to visit with barely any paperwork at all. and canadians can come here on roughly the same terms. but mexicans have to apply for permission and fill out extra paperwork and pay extra fees and be interviewed at the consulate and wait months to find anything out. and then they are only allowed to stay for very short periods of time. it's bullshit, pure and simple.

of course, you are already allowed to go down there to visit with barely any paperwork at all. and canadians can come here on roughly the same terms. but mexicans have to apply for permission and fill out extra paperwork and pay extra fees and be interviewed at the consulate and wait months to find anything out. and then they are only allowed to stay for very short periods of time. it's bullshit, pure and simple.

Catch the point "visit", not run over the border away from legal crossing points and set up residence.

Or are you trying to say it's legal for me to just go up to Canada anywhere I please and start working there for as long as I want?

As far as I've read on the subject, it seems the "minutemen" are divided on this. There are a good number of supremists and `fascists` but theres also a good deal of people who aren't for either.

sure, but that's only because this version of the border vigilante thing has done a lot better with media relations and message moderation and discipline than the previous groups that it grew out of have. the reason it has brought out so many nazis is because the entire thing has been a nazi project for decades. these nazis are using the project as a tool to advance their positions into the more mainstream elements of rightwing america. and they are being greatly aided by the mainstream and rightwing media, who fell all over themselves to avoid mentioning the nazi connections of the project - both the intellectual history and the direct connections of its leaders and participants to earlier openly racist groups.

Catch the point "visit", not run over the border away from legal crossing points and set up residence.

Or are you trying to say it's legal for me to just go up to Canada anywhere I please and start working there for as long as I want?

i'm saying that if i were to illegally move to canada, i could do so today by merely driving over to the border and showing my driver's license and lying about my intentions. canadians can do likewise. and we can all do the same in mexico. going the other direction, mexicans (being lesser humans or something) cannot.

sure, but that's only because this version of the border vigilante thing has done a lot better with media relations and message moderation and discipline than the previous groups that it grew out of have. the reason it has brought out so many nazis is because the entire thing has been a nazi project for decades. these nazis are using the project as a tool to advance their positions into the more mainstream elements of rightwing america. and they are being greatly aided by the mainstream and rightwing media, who fell all over themselves to avoid mentioning the nazi connections of the project - both the intellectual history and the direct connections of its leaders and participants to earlier openly racist groups.

Do you have any sources for this?

i'm saying that if i were to illegally move to canada, i could do so today by merely driving over to the border and showing my driver's license and lying about my intentions. canadians can do likewise. mexicans, being lesser humans or something, cannot.

Odd, I lived in San Diego and saw Mexican nationals coming through the border crossings regularly. I'm sure some of them illegally stayed.

That has nothing to do w/ the Minutemen unless you're trying to claim they have authority at the legal crossing points. They monitor the areas in between.

Do you have any proof of this?

Do you have any sources for this?

david neiwert recently wrote up a pretty good multi-part summary of things.

it starts here (http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/01/march-of-minutemen.html)

Do you have any proof of this?

proof that there is a difference in entry requirements? dude, look it up. canada, bermuda, the bahamas, and the u.s. all share really basic requirements for travel in either direction. mexico shares those for people coming in. the u.s. holds mexican citizens going the other way to an entirely different standard.

david niewert recently wrote up a pretty good multi-part summary of things.

it starts here (http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/01/march-of-minutemen.html)


You've got to be kidding. The majority of that comes from the SPLC along with lots of "charges, allegations, and accusations" trying to link the Minutemen to various groups. The news reports have lots of nonsourced numbers and "quotes". You stated previously that the "right wing media" was hiding all of this yet this rant alledges lots of "abuses". Which is it?

You've got to be kidding. The majority of that comes from the SPLC along with lots of "charges, allegations, and accusations" trying to link the Minutemen to various groups. The news reports have lots of nonsourced numbers and "quotes". You stated previously that the "right wing media" was hiding all of this yet this rant alledges lots of "abuses". Which is it?

a few organizations actually doing some investigative journalism by doesn't make up for months of lou dobbs fellating them on cnn.

proof that there is a difference in entry requirements? dude, look it up. canada, bermuda, the bahamas, and the u.s. all share really basic requirements for travel in either direction. mexico shares those for people coming in. the u.s. holds mexican citizens going the other way to an entirely different standard.

Try again. You need a $20 visitor pass and proof of residency.

Bermuda $10 fee and passport

Bahamas: $15 fee, passport, return ticket, and proof of residency.

We should make it less safe for these people to get in: mines, snipers :sniper: , etc. Kepp those illegals out. For the ones already here, round 'em up, and force them into criminal work, or just deport them. But of course, that's "inhumane" and "wrong". We do lots of wrong things already. This whole government is corrupt. I think keeping border-hoppers out would be a swing in the "right" direction for a change.

a few organizations actually doing some investigative journalism by doesn't make up for months of lou dobbs fellating them on cnn.

OK, so you're claiming that CNN is "fellating" them while the other rant you posted tried to claim they were racist because the believe (rightly) that a large amount of crime is committed by illegal aliens? Have you ever seen the report that 3/4 of CA outstanding murder warrants are for illegals. Have you ever seen the reports of the various gangs that are setting up shop filled mostly w/ illegals?

Are there any actually substantiated claims of widespread abuse? Not just by the tin hats?

I don't deny that there are some wingnuts associating w/ them. If you want to judge an entire group , especially one endorsed by several governors, senators, and reps of the affected states, feel free. It's not based in reality though.

Howabout this:

"Furthermore, Andy Adame, spokesperson for the Tucson sector of the border patrol, says there have been no incidents where Minuteman volunteers have used their firearms to harm illegal immigrants. None."

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed042705a.cfm

I'm sure Mr. Adame is just a skin head in disquise, hiding the "facts", right?

According to the rant you linked, the author considers the Minutemen to be a "civic threat" and "extremists" while calling various nazi groups there "core of support" and then links to lots of articles that say no such thing while various polls show it has heavy popular support. Of course the rant wouldn't link to it, it's so non-biased and filled w/ 'serious investigating".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Kennydad.gif

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!!

Try again. You need a $20 visitor pass and proof of residency.

Bermuda $10 fee and passport

Bahamas: $15 fee, passport, return ticket, and proof of residency.

dude, mexican visitors require visas to enter the u.s. visas are not required for travel between canada, the u.s., bermuda, the bahamas, or even most of the carribean nations. nor does mexico require them from any of us.

OK, so you're claiming that CNN is "fellating" them while the other rant you posted tried to claim they were racist because the believe (rightly) that a large amount of crime is committed by illegal aliens?

are you illiterate or delusional? firstly, those two claims have no connection at all. secondly, where did anything i posted say anything of the sort?

dude, mexican visitors require visas to enter the u.s. visas are not required for travel between canada, the u.s., bermuda, the bahamas, or even most of the carribean nations. nor does mexico require them from any of us.

Really?

MEXICO - *Proof of citizenship such as original birth certificate, naturalization certificate or voters registration card and photo ID. Tourist card is required. Tourist card valid 3 months for single-entry up to 180 days, $20 fee, requires proof of U.S. citizenship, photo ID, and proof of sufficient funds. Visa not required of U.S. citizens for tourist/transit stay of up to 30 days. Obtain tourist cards in advance from Consulate, Tourism Office, and most airlines serving Mexico upon arrival. Departure tax $10 is paid at airport when not included in the cost of the airline ticket. Notarized consent from parent(s) required for children under age 18 traveling alone, with one parent, or in someone else's custody

BERMUDA - Passport (or proof of U.S. citizenship with photo ID) and onward/return ticket required for tourist stay of up to 3 months. Departure tax of $10 is paid at airport.

BAHAMAS - Proof of U.S. citizenship, i.e., a passport (if you are using an expired passport it cannot be expired more than 5 years) or original or certified copy of a birth certificate with a photo ID, and onward/return ticket required for stay of up to 8 months. Proof of sufficient funds required. Passport and residence/work permit needed for residence and business. Permit required for firearms and to import pets. Departure tax of $15 must be paid at airport.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/brochures/brochures_1229.html#n


That's a lot different from your claim of "but mexicans have to apply for permission and fill out extra paperwork and pay extra fees and be interviewed at the consulate and wait months to find anything out. and then they are only allowed to stay for very short periods of time."

Do either of the other three gov't encourage thier people to illegally emmigrate? What percentage of illegal immigrants are from those three?

are you illiterate or delusional? firstly, those two claims have no connection at all. secondly, where did anything i posted say anything of the sort?

Now we get into the personal attacks. How nice.

the border patrol people have come out in favor of neo-nazis and and white supremacists.

the reason it has brought out so many nazis is because the entire thing has been a nazi project for decades. these nazis are using the project as a tool to advance their positions into the more mainstream elements of rightwing america.


Your posted rant:

"Most of the Minutemen, when interviewed, tend to talk about how their hometowns and neighborhoods are being overrun with criminal Latinos. It's about Latino-bashing, and the "war on terror" talk is just a fig leaf."

in response to :

"It's a public safety issue because 30 percent of crimes are committed by aliens," said Simcox, who cites no source for the statistic. "There's an explosion of vicious gangs with no respect for human life that target us because of soft laws."

They directly attributed wanting to reduce illegal aliens causing crime to "Latino-bashing".

It also attacks Simcox as "unstable" due to comments like this:

"I will begin teaching him the art of protecting himself with weapons," Simcox said in one recorded message he left for Dunbar. "I purchased another gun. I have more than a few weapons, and I intend on teaching my son how to use them."

This is your "investigative journalism" in action.

Really?

MEXICO - *Proof of citizenship such as original birth certificate, naturalization certificate or voters registration card and photo ID. Tourist card is required. Tourist card valid 3 months for single-entry up to 180 days, $20 fee, requires proof of U.S. citizenship, photo ID, and proof of sufficient funds. Visa not required of U.S. citizens for tourist/transit stay of up to 30 days. Obtain tourist cards in advance from Consulate, Tourism Office, and most airlines serving Mexico upon arrival. Departure tax $10 is paid at airport when not included in the cost of the airline ticket. Notarized consent from parent(s) required for children under age 18 traveling alone, with one parent, or in someone else's custody

BERMUDA - Passport (or proof of U.S. citizenship with photo ID) and onward/return ticket required for tourist stay of up to 3 months. Departure tax of $10 is paid at airport.

BAHAMAS - Proof of U.S. citizenship, i.e., a passport (if you are using an expired passport it cannot be expired more than 5 years) or original or certified copy of a birth certificate with a photo ID, and onward/return ticket required for stay of up to 8 months. Proof of sufficient funds required. Passport and residence/work permit needed for residence and business. Permit required for firearms and to import pets. Departure tax of $15 must be paid at airport.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/brochures/brochures_1229.html#n


That's a lot different from your claim of "but mexicans have to apply for permission and fill out extra paperwork and pay extra fees and be interviewed at the consulate and wait months to find anything out. and then they are only allowed to stay for very short periods of time."

ok, so illiterate it is, then. that site is about u.s. citizens travelling elsewhere. and in the cases of the countries i mentioned you explicitly do not need a visa, and only need some id and in certain cases a trivial fee.

but what about mexican citizens?
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/req_canada_mexico.xml
"In general, a citizen of Mexico must have a passport and nonimmigrant visa or Form DSP-150 (also known as a "Laser Visa")."

and what does getting a visa involve? let's check.
http://mexico.usembassy.gov/mexico/evisas.html
http://mexico.usembassy.gov/mexico/evisas_tourist.html

hmm, looks like you need to pay at least $100 u.s., fill out a shit-load of paper work, schedule an interview, have your background checked, wait for months, and pray. yeah, that's pretty much the same as everything else.

ok, so illiterate it is, then. that site is about u.s. citizens travelling elsewhere. and in the cases of the countries i mentioned you explicitly do not need a visa, and only need some id and in certain cases a trivial fee.

but what about mexican citizens?
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/req_canada_mexico.xml
"In general, a citizen of Mexico must have a passport and nonimmigrant visa or Form DSP-150 (also known as a "Laser Visa")."

and what does getting a visa involve? let's check.
http://mexico.usembassy.gov/mexico/evisas.html
http://mexico.usembassy.gov/mexico/evisas_tourist.html

hmm, looks like you need to pay at least $100 u.s., fill out a shit-load of paper work, schedule an interview, have your background checked, wait for months, and pray. yeah, that's pretty much the same as everything else.

Fine, I was wrong. Glad you respond w/ personal attacks some more.

Now, again, are there 12 million Canadian, Bermudan, or Bahamian illegals in the US? Might there be a "reason" for the extra security?
Are there huge gangs made up of illegal immigrants from Canada, Bermuda, or Bahama?

You do know that the US and Canada are setting up a travel permit plan similar to a passport, right? Guess it won't be as easy then.

We should send our Mexicans back across the border.

Write your Congressman.
He's tired of hearing from me. Doesn't even send form letters anymore.
And so, what conclusion do you draw from that, DCD?
I'm a very politically involved citizen?
Well, that's one way to interpret it.

Fine, I was wrong. Glad you respond w/ personal attacks some more.

well, when i write that certain countries don't require visas, and you respond with "oh really?" and quote a source that backs me up, what the hell else am i to think other than that you have problems understanding written words?

Alright, here's the problem I have. Illegal immigrants come over the border, work under the table, and send the money back to Mexico. Since they're payed under the table, they pay no taxes. Then, they take advantage of tax funded programs (there is an example listed in this link: http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed042705a.cfm). I say, if you want the benefits of the US, immigrate legally and pay your taxes like the rest of us. Then, I'll have no problems with you being in this country.

I say, if you want the benefits of the US, immigrate legally and pay your taxes like the rest of us. Then, I'll have no problems with you being in this country.
I don't believe you.

I don't believe you.

http://www.smilies.vidahost.com/otn/sad/mecry.gif

Oh wait, I don't care. :D