NationStates Jolt Archive

In your opinions, who are the best and worst US presidents (excluding George Bush b/c his terms not over yeat and who knows?) and why?

Jimmy Carter, Historys Greatest Monster :D...

No no it was probably Reagan.

carter, FDR, and it looks as though bush is headed that way too. (for worst)

and as much as lincoln freed the slaves, he did a bunch of other shit as well.

basically, every president after washington wasn't so great. washington was the best because he did nothing to alter the constitution or expand the government.

Washington also was the first. No predesecors to be compared to.

Everyone forgets Ford--America's appointed president.

Washington also was the first. No predesecors to be compared to.

Everyone forgets Ford--America's appointed president.
And the guy that fell down alot.

And they guy that my local airport is named after.

Best
Jefferson-Louisiana Purchase
T. Roosevelt-foreign poilicy

Worst
Buchanan-Civil War
Jackson-Domestic Policy
Grant-corruption and scandal
Hoover-Great Depression
Eisenhower-religious fanaticism
Carter-impotence

In my book FDR goes down as the worst, New Deal my ass.
However, I am left with a conundrum as who to put for best:
Reagan?
He helped simplify the tax code and lowered taxes, which was cool, but doesn't do shit for me because taxes were corrupted and raised again.
He is said to have defeated the Soviets, but I think the fact that their government/economy were train wrecks since the revolution had more to do with them going down.
He pisses a lot of people off, but one two terms.

Or Taft?

He got stuck in a bath tub


It really is a tough decision.

In my book FDR goes down as the worst, New Deal my ass.
However, I am left with a conundrum as who to put for best:
Reagan?
He helped simplify the tax code and lowered taxes, which was cool, but doesn't do shit for me because taxes were corrupted and raised again.
He is said to have defeated the Soviets, but I think the fact that their government/economy were train wrecks since the revolution had more to do with them going down.
He pisses a lot of people off, but one two terms.

Or Taft?

He got stuck in a bath tub


It really is a tough decision.

reagan spent way to much and expanded alot of federal powers.

Worst: Nixon with Bush II as an uncomfortably close 2nd.

Best: David Rice Atchison

Best
Jefferson-Louisiana Purchase
T. Roosevelt-foreign poilicy

Worst
Buchanan-Civil War
Jackson-Domestic Policy
Grant-corruption and scandal
Hoover-WWI
Eisenhower-religious fanaticism
Carter-impotence

ummm....
Lincoln was civil war, though Buchanan kinda started it
Wilson was WWI, not Hoover, though Hoover was the Great Crash/Depression president

Best=Lincoln. Elected on a platform of opposition to the spread of slavery, and "free homes for the homeless," he led the nation to victory in the Civil War by emancipating the Confederate slaves, then pushed for the 13th amendment that outlawed slavery in the United States.

Worst=Franklin D. Roosevelt. His first action in office was to declare a "bank holiday," the effect of which was to shut down the smaller banks--with no reparations to the depositors--and leave the bigger banks with more control of finance. He signed the National Recovery Act in order to rein in the growth of the CIO and of labor in general; he pursued a tacit alliance with the Communist Party against the working class; he got the U.S. involved in World War II. Highlights of his war record include the Ponce massacre, the mass incarceration of Japanese-Americans and Italian-Americans in some areas, the bombing of Dresden, and the passage and first prosecutions under the Smith Act.

carter, FDR, and it looks as though bush is headed that way too. (for worst)

and as much as lincoln freed the slaves, he did a bunch of other shit as well.

basically, every president after washington wasn't so great. washington was the best because he did nothing to alter the constitution or expand the government.

FDR one of the worst??? I have to disagree. There was a reason why he was elected FOUR times

reagan spent way to much and expanded alot of federal powers.
Yes, but Taft supported protective tariffs and expanded the federal bath tub.
And then you have to consider the numbers:
Taft, 27; Reagan, 40.
Reagan's number is higher, and I think that should be worth a little bit.

Best: Lincoln. He kept the nation together(he wouldn't have declared war if the rebels would leave Federal property alone) and freed the slaves. Plus, his face is cool. Can you name any other presidents with cool faces? Maybe Nixon and Grant.

Worst:
Grant-good guy, but his ineffective managemant style created a breeding ground for corruption.
the guy before Lincoln-one of the root causes of the Civil War.
Andrew Jackson-is said to have represented the common man, but he mostly represented the common redneck.
Andrew Johnson-Bigot. Chosen as Vice President to provide contrast to Lincoln. Boy, did he ever. He basicly crippled Lincoln's reconstruction plan.

said to be the worst:
Hoover-just elected during the wrong time.
Nixon-People called him evil, but he did some good. He got us out of Veitnam and helped relations with China. If it wasn't for him and his diplomasy, we'd have to go to China for Chinese food.
Clinton-he had sex with somebody. Big freak'n deal. The Republicans were deperate to get him out of office, just like the Democrats are desperate to get bush out of office.
Carter-he's a man of peace.

FDR one of the worst??? I have to disagree. There was a reason why he was elected FOUR times
Yeah, that was because he was a sleaze-ball who, rather than honor the prescedent established by Washington and followed for generations of presidents, had to be pried out of the White House by a cerebral hemmorhage.

I think anyone from Jimmy Carter to the present day should not be included, because the long term effects of their policies have yet to be judged by history. Also, current politics will taint people's opinions.
So, for me...
Best: Jefferson, Madison, Polk

Worst: Lincoln, FDR, Jackson

Best
Jefferson-Louisiana Purchase
T. Roosevelt-foreign poilicy

Worst
Buchanan-Civil War
Jackson-Domestic Policy
Grant-corruption and scandal
Hoover-WWI
Eisenhower-religious fanaticism
Carter-impotence


You are right in most of your picks.........but Hoover.????? He was not elected until WWI was ended....

Eisenhower.....I did not know that he was a religious fanatic. I thought that he was famous for playing golf and letting the country sway in the breeze......He did nothing but screw up Cuba and Vietnam...........along with the mid-east situation..........He did more damage than the next 3 presidents combined.

Carter is to nice to be a President. He is very bright, but he has to much faith in his fellow man being "NICE" also.

Where did you go to school???? Carolina????

Best-Washington. Need I say more? In addition to being a very impressive general, he could have been King of America, but he was noble enough to ignore the chance. In short, a hero.

Worst-Lincoln: Suppressed civil liberties. True, there was a war going on, but I really don't think all of the jailing was neccesary.
Andrew Jackson: Ignored a direct order from the Supreme Court, vetoed a large number of bills, etc.
Bush: Suppressed civil liberties, dragged us in to an unjustified war to the protests of the entire world, and has generally tried his hardest to destroy American and International law.

Yeah, that was because he was a sleaze-ball who, rather than honor the prescedent established by Washington and followed for generations of presidents, had to be pried out of the White House by a cerebral hemmorhage.

Did FDR violate prescedent? Yeah, but so did Lincoln when he gave the Emancipation Proclaimantion, Monroe with the Monroe Doctroine, and Truman when he pushed for the US to join the UN. Prescedent is not always a good thing.

Please take note, I agree with you in one aspect. FDR trying to fuck with the Supreme Court by adding more justices to the bench was a shitty move. Thats the worst thing he did though.

Best: Harrison. He did nothing bad at all
Worst: Grant. Let in far too much corruption.

Jimmy Carter, Historys Greatest Monster :D...

No no it was probably Reagan.

Poor Jimmy Carter. Such a nice guy, perhaps too much so. Reagan had alzheimers so il let him off for that, but he was still a goddamn republican.

Poor Jimmy Carter. Such a nice guy, perhaps too much so. Reagan had alzheimers so il let him off for that, but he was still a goddamn republican.

And we all know that Republicans could never do good things...

And we all know that Republicans could never do good things...
South Islands, you're dangerously close to making sense on two thread simultaneously. I fear that my recent flights into (pseudo)serious discussion might be having a bad efffect on you.

Bush: Suppressed civil liberties, dragged us in to an unjustified war to the protests of the entire world, and has generally tried his hardest to destroy American and International law.

Clinton, violated the constitution with the line-item veto. Dragged us into conflicts all over the globe, and then tied the hands of the generals so much it hindered the success of missions. Suppressed civil liberties. Was impeached by congress.

International law is a joke. Have you seen the Dave Chapelle skit about the UN?
"Well if the UN don't like what I am doing they should sanction me. And if that don't work, send in their army. Oh wait, they don't have an army! I guess they should shut the fuck up. I would shut the fuck up if I didn't have an army. Do you hear me? SHUT-THE-FUCK-UP!!!"

Thats the way dictators think. We all see how well the UN is working the Iran situation right now. We all see how well the UN and the IAEA prevented India and Pakistain from getting nukes.

FDR one of the worst??? I have to disagree. There was a reason why he was elected FOUR times

hey sometimes people want tyranny

ummm....
Lincoln was civil war, though Buchanan kinda started it
Wilson was WWI, not Hoover, though Hoover was the Great Crash/Depression president
Thats what I meant as far as Buchanan goes
As far as Hoover, I made a mistake. Thank you for pointing out my error.

South Islands, you're dangerously close to making sense on two thread simultaneously. I fear that my recent flights into (pseudo)serious discussion might be having a bad efffect on you.

I know. I need less common sense in my life.

*goes crazy*

Best: FDR, Lincoln, George Washington
Worst: Hmm. I don't know. (AND I'M NOT SAYING BUSH!)

When Nixon/Clinton lied,
no one died.

George Bush Jr. is the most protested president in US history. He holds the all-time records for death penalties under a governor (Texas) some of whom were mentally disabled. He is the only president to enter office with a criminal record (Cocaine and DUI). :mp5: He refuses to get out of Iraq, who 'surrendered,' and where innocent civilians and soldiers die each day. In his third year in office, 58% of his tax breaks went to the top 20% income bracket. He inherited a $5,000,000,000,000 (5 trillion) surplus and within his first year in office was down to the 2.5 trillion Clinton set aside for Social Security. Now, the deficit is over 8 trillion dollars. Let that sink in while you debate the worst.

VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ANSWER
THINK FOR YOURSELF-get the other side of the argument too, the one for Bush.

You are right in most of your picks.........but Hoover.????? He was not elected until WWI was ended....

Eisenhower.....I did not know that he was a religious fanatic. I thought that he was famous for playing golf and letting the country sway in the breeze......He did nothing but screw up Cuba and Vietnam...........along with the mid-east situation..........He did more damage than the next 3 presidents combined.

Carter is to nice to be a President. He is very bright, but he has to much faith in his fellow man being "NICE" also.

Where did you go to school???? Carolina????
ha...funny
While I admit that I made a mistake when i said Hoover for WWI (I meant Great Depression), I stand by my choice of Eisenhower. Aside from his failures in Cuba and Vietnam as you have mentioned, he also had strong ties to Jehovahs Witnesses that I feel affected his poilicies. One example is his introduction of the words "Under God" into the Pledge. A subtle move, but one of many.

Worst: Nixon with Bush II as an uncomfortably close 2nd.

Best: David Rice Atchison
He was never President, Pro Tempore or otherwise.

Best president? I'd have fairly traditional choice, ie Lincoln for preventing secession. The USA's success has been brought in no small part by being the sole major power across the North American continent.

Worst...probably...hmm...nah, I dunno. Monroe for arrogance, possibly.

~snip~

Well, imagine that, a first post with a gun smilie. Who would have thought it possible. And a Bush rant too. You're off to a hell of a start. :rolleyes:

Best - Tie between Reagan and Dubya. Dubya would win if he did something about the border.

Worst - JFK, yeah you heard me! What he did in the Bay of Pigs was morally reprehensible. Alot of people died because he chose to abandon them.

VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ANSWER
THINK FOR YOURSELF-get the other side of the argument too, the one for Bush.Oh great, another hippy on the forum. :D

Well, imagine that, a first post with a gun smilie. Who would have thought it possible. And a Bush rant too. You're off to a hell of a start. :rolleyes:
False information, too...

When Nixon/Clinton lied,
no one died.

George Bush Jr. is the most protested president in US history. He holds the all-time records for death penalties under a governor (Texas) some of whom were mentally disabled. He is the only president to enter office with a criminal record (Cocaine and DUI). :mp5: He refuses to get out of Iraq, who 'surrendered,' and where innocent civilians and soldiers die each day. In his third year in office, 58% of his tax breaks went to the top 20% income bracket. He inherited a $5,000,000,000,000 (5 trillion) surplus and within his first year in office was down to the 2.5 trillion Clinton set aside for Social Security. Now, the deficit is over 8 trillion dollars. Let that sink in while you debate the worst.

VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ANSWER
THINK FOR YOURSELF-get the other side of the argument too, the one for Bush.

hey you've seemed to have done a pretty good job of thinking for yourself.

DEIFINETLEY JEFFERSON AS ONE OF THE BEST.... he did the Louisina Purchase which might have been a bit against the rules, but he doubled the size of the U.S. :)

DEIFINETLEY JEFFERSON AS ONE OF THE BEST.... he did the Louisina Purchase which might have been a bit against the rules, but he doubled the size of the U.S. :)

he also raped our economy with his trade embargo

i liked him batter as a framer than as a leader.

In your opinions, who are the best and worst US presidents (excluding George Bush b/c his terms not over yeat and who knows?) and why?

they're all f*cking politicians. enough said. :mp5:

I know this sounds sort of cheesy but I'd have to say Mr. Washington himself, I mean after all he help Amarica possible the most

As for the worst, well, Nixon is up on number 1 rattling with Flumbitous

Probably Reagan or Kennedy if we're talking about relatively recent presidents.
Worst is either Jimmy Carter or Nixon.

I know this sounds sort of cheesy but I'd have to say Mr. Washington himself, I mean after all he help Amarica possible the most

As for the worst, well, Nixon is up on number 1 rattling with Flumbitous

at LEAST spell the frikkin' country's NAME right. jesus!

Best: Washington- The first is the best, of course
Chester Arthur- He got rid of the corrupt spoils system
Polk- Look how much land the US got in his term
Lincoln
Teddy Rosevelt

Worst: John Adams- The ailien and Sedition act kinda hurt his popularity
Andrew Jackson- Trail of Tears, amoung other things
McKinley- Look at his policies and actions, they are similar to GW Bush's in some ways
FDR- there are some things he did that i don't like

Most Unknown: Millard Fillmore- who is this guy?

Some people can't understand what "excluding" means. You can't say Bush Jr. until he's out of office. Then he's open. While he's in office, you can't say that he's the best or the worst.

Best: Washington- The first is the best, of course
Chester Arthur- He got rid of the corrupt spoils system
Polk- Look how much land the US got in his term
Lincoln
Teddy Rosevelt


Chester A. Arthur? He was only president for a year for crying out loud!

I think Arthur is good because, now a days, you don't see reletives and freinds of preisdents filling the cabnit. He got rid of the spoils system, which has some far reaching effects.

Also, one of the main reasons he did not win his second term was because he was sick with a kidney ailment and did not realy want to be reelected.

I think Arthur is good because, now a days, you don't see reletives and freinds of preisdents filling the cabnit. He got rid of the spoils system, which has some far reaching effects.

Also, one of the main reasons he did not win his second term was because he was sick with a kidney ailment and did not realy want to be reelected.

That's cool. I am thrilled someone actually knows who Arthur was and knows what he did in his short time as president. Most people would probably be like "Who???"

In your opinions, who are the best and worst US presidents (excluding George Bush b/c his terms not over yeat and who knows?) and why?

Worst is a four way tie, all in the 20th century: FDR, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton (though Bush will enter that group as soon as his last day in office). All of them earn their place because of their willingness to expand and abuse executive power at all costs. Best, well thats a hard one. George Washington (for his restraint) and Theodore Roosevelt (for his embodiment of all that is "American" and his formation of the national park system) both come to mind.

FDR one of the worst??? I have to disagree. There was a reason why he was elected FOUR times

The fact that he ran four times is pretty incriminating in itself...

The fact that he ran four times is pretty incriminating in itself...
Incriminating? What laws were around at that time that made it illegal for him to do so?

BEST PRESIDENT EVER: Ronald Reagan, for his heroic actions in preventing the spread of godless communism in Nicaragua, and for helping our Iranian allies protect their sovereignty.

WORST PRESIDENT EVER: Bill Clinton, for participating in the ignoble sin of oral sex and violating the sancity of his marraige. May he burn in hell.

Incriminating? What laws were around at that time that made it illegal for him to do so?

*sigh*

Splitting hairs, playing semantics. Ok, you don't like incriminating? How about dickish? Tyranical? I could describe his behavior as douchebaggery of the highest degree. I'm sorry, I just don't trust anyone who wakes up in the morning and thinks "You know, I'm just so damn good for this country that I oughta be prez for twelve, maybe sixteen years!" I'm even less trusting of someone who has that attitude after a history of pushing the limits of the constitution and grabbing for as much personal political power as they can. Lets not mince words, I think his crippled as should have been dragged out into the street and hanged after his little stunt with the supreme court. Clear enough for you?

I think that what FDR did helped the US a lot then.
You can bitch and argue about it today, but without some sort of big program to give some confidence back to people (and of course the investment that came with it), the depression could have lasted much longer.

My personal choice for worst would probably be Reagan, because I really don't like his style, his politics and his friends. Nixon was obviously pretty bad too.

For best, that's a lot more difficult of course. Washington not, because as President, he actually did some pretty disturbing things.
Lincoln seems to have been a bit of a war president, so maybe not him either.
Clinton was okay, I think, but he did some bad things as well that I don't agree with.
Carter comes to mind, but he did the whole Iran thing.

I don't think I have a favourite US President, I must say.

*sigh*

Splitting hairs, playing semantics. Ok, you don't like incriminating? How about dickish? Tyranical? I could describe his behavior as douchebaggery of the highest degree. I'm sorry, I just don't trust anyone who wakes up in the morning and thinks "You know, I'm just so damn good for this country that I oughta be prez for twelve, maybe sixteen years!" I'm even less trusting of someone who has that attitude after a history of pushing the limits of the constitution and grabbing for as much personal political power as they can. Lets not mince words, I think his crippled as should have been dragged out into the street and hanged after his little stunt with the supreme court. Clear enough for you?

I agree that FDR was, as you say, a douche bag for what he attempted to do to control the supreme court, but he also waited too long to enter WWII, and could've prevented the whole thing had he just recognised the threat sooner. The asshole was so indifferent to the suffering of Europe under Hitler that he didn't do anything about it until his own nation was attacked. Even then, he wouldn't have fought Germany if they hadn't declared war first. He didn't give a rat's ass about any country but his own, and he only cared about being a tyrant imperial here. He sucked. God bless Reagan.

I feel obligated to post after reading people semi-bash FDR. If he didn't create the New Deal and the market was allowed to heal on its own, it would take decades.

Best: Washington, both Roosevelts, Wilson
Worst: Jackson(Trail of Tears makes me want to burn my $20 bills), every Republican from Lincoln on(except Teddy of course): especially, Taft, the 20s presidents, Nixon, Reagan

Bush Sr wasnt that bad, but I doubt Iraq would have gone beyond Kuwait. Well not much beyond.

Also, don't giuve this BS about Reagan defeating Communism. Martha Stewart had a bigger role...It was all the pope.

Worst: Don't know enough history.
Best: Don't know enough history. However, to me Polk seems to be in the top 10 at least since he was like the only one that achieved his presidental goals.

The worst president i would said, G. Bush Jr.

He abused his own power and took control over the patriot act. he and government took Patriot Act way too far. He not a Republican, more of Fascist!

Refused to back off the Iraq and he cause a enough damage on Iraqi, but he care, no way. he still want to control Iraq. Liberal and Democracist want him out of the office. he took too much power and abuse it. He did a unconstitutional way and the congress do nothing.


The Historians has said that Bush is the wrost president of all.

Worst Modern (except W): Reagan--Committed TREASON by selling arms to the enemy. Shifted government spending to wealthy. Shifted taxes to the poor and middle. Took all safety regulations off business. Reduced environmental controls. Froze minimum wage, taking from the poorest of the poor to give to the richest of the rich. Began run away government spending. Campaigned that Nat debt went over 1 trillion then doubled the debt to 2 Trillion his 8 years.

Worst pre 1900: Grant. Totally screwed up the peace. Still suffering from north-south split.

Best: Washington--gave up power. No leader had ever done that before. King George even honored him for that.

Best Modern: FDR--Fairness for all classes. WW2. Monetary system. Bank stability. Led nation from third world to superpower.

BEST PRESIDENT EVER: Ronald Reagan, for his heroic actions in preventing the spread of godless communism in Nicaragua, and for helping our Iranian allies protect their sovereignty.

Oh yeah, the Sandinistas were so godless. Its not as if they provided free transportation for half a million people to see the Pope when he visited Nicaragua in 1983.


Oh hang on...


(And yes, I know you're being tongue in cheek)

*sigh*

Splitting hairs, playing semantics. Ok, you don't like incriminating? How about dickish? Tyranical? I could describe his behavior as douchebaggery of the highest degree. I'm sorry, I just don't trust anyone who wakes up in the morning and thinks "You know, I'm just so damn good for this country that I oughta be prez for twelve, maybe sixteen years!" I'm even less trusting of someone who has that attitude after a history of pushing the limits of the constitution and grabbing for as much personal political power as they can. Lets not mince words, I think his crippled as should have been dragged out into the street and hanged after his little stunt with the supreme court. Clear enough for you?

"pushing" the limits of the constitution? he might as well of shredded it and thrown it on the streets and then payed some unemployed guy to clean it up.

I agree that FDR was, as you say, a douche bag for what he attempted to do to control the supreme court, but he also waited too long to enter WWII, and could've prevented the whole thing had he just recognised the threat sooner. The asshole was so indifferent to the suffering of Europe under Hitler that he didn't do anything about it until his own nation was attacked. Even then, he wouldn't have fought Germany if they hadn't declared war first. He didn't give a rat's ass about any country but his own, and he only cared about being a tyrant imperial here. He sucked. God bless Reagan.

Yeah, THAT'S why he initiated the cash and carry and Lend-Lease programs to aid the UK, France, and the Soviets before the United States entered the war.

Yeah, THAT'S why he initiated the cash and carry and Lend-Lease programs to aid the UK, France, and the Soviets before the United States entered the war.

Which he should not have if he wanted the US to be considered a Neutral nation.

Which he should not have if he wanted the US to be considered a Neutral nation.
But he didn't want to remain Neutral. I think he spent the entire war chomping at the bit to move in and play soldier, but the public opinion was against entering the war until after Pearl Harbour.
So instead he went the subtle route of starving the enemy (Japanese trade thingies) and aiding the enemy's enemies (Lend Lease) until they had no choice but to move against him directly.

But he didn't want to remain Neutral. I think he spent the entire war chomping at the bit to move in and play soldier, but the public opinion was against entering the war until after Pearl Harbour.
So instead he went the subtle route of starving the enemy (Japanese trade thingies) and aiding the enemy's enemies (Lend Lease) until they had no choice but to move against him directly.

I guess that's what I was trying to get accross. Most others wanted America to remain neutral. But he didn't

Washington was a great guy, bet he was not that good a president.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_%281793%29

Worst: Carter...Did nothing but raise taxes and hold hands with kruschev
Probably Wilson more than Carter though. Wilson was overtly racist He is quoted as saying "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready". Wilson wrote a two-volue history of the United States which was rampant with racism. Under Wilson America sees "segregation". A notion not seen since the reconstruction. In 1917 Wilson pushed through the Espionage Act and the Sedition Act in 1918. The acts gave broad and serious censorship powers to the president. With Wilson's approval the postmaster general suppressed all mail that was socialist, anti-British, or pro-irish. Under Wilson we get the anti-communist and anti-labor union witch hunts.

Best: I am not sure. I like Lincoln in spite of all of the crap.

Best: Reagan, JFK a close second
Worst: LBJ

I read most of the posts that are on here and to be honest, I already had my top 5 picked out before I read this.

After reading this, I am now more comfortable that I picked the right 5. They all pissed off the liberal left in some way. They made America better and of course made the world hate America even more.

I personally think when its all said and done, President Bush will be easily in the top 5 that I have.

The Historians has said that Bush is the wrost president of all.

Probably the funniest and most stupid comment at the same time, considering history hasn't even begun to write about the "cuban cigar" incident with Clinton.

No, he isn't number 5.

Then again, the grammer with that entire post is quite funny. Just further proof that "government schools" really do make our citizens smarter.

With that being said...here is my list.

#5 John F Kennedy. We read about how he handled the Bay of Pigs. It was horrible, even Clinton (remember Bosnia..such a pointless war and yet people complain about Iraq) would have done a better job. Hell Carter could have done a better job. Yet it wasn't the bullet that people will remember Kennedy by, no. It will be the "mission to the moon" speech. Think about that for a moment. At the time when he made that speech, those damn commies were beating us. We are Americans damnit, we deserve to beat those bastards. And we did in 1969 and look at the technology that came from that. In fact you are probably reading this from some of the same idealogy.

#4 Franklin Roosevelt. What cannot be said about this man? Great Depression? Check. Polio? Check. Aid to allies? Check. Greatest attack on American Intrests? Check. Lead the country into greatness? Check. Oh and can't forget the new deal, re-writing the banking code, ok'd atomic research. Hell this guy is responsible for even creating a better work enviroment for miners (though I think some of the same standards still exist today). This guy had one hell of a hand dealt to him and he played it very well. Shame he couldn't see the country through the rest of the war. It would have been very interesting to see how he would have officially handled Japan.

#3 Abraham Lincoln. Go along with me on this. We are going to create a party whose whole purpose is to abolish slavery. Oh and by the way the guy who is going to lead the charge is a guy who lost a wife, son, both parents bankrupt 7 times and has only won two elections. Anyone else want this guy to be president? Yet he some how convienced the entire country to not elect him once but twice! He led the country beautifully through a very stressful time in out nation's history. Today there is all this talk about how the nation has never been this divided. Did anyone else forget about the Civil War? Hell half the country went its own way and yet, this man who hasn't won anything in his life, would not see it as anything else. Oh yeah, he freed a bunch of people from the south. The end? A bullet to the head. Such a bittersweet story.

#2 Ronald Reagan. "Dear, I forgot to duck." Not even 60 days into his presidency he is shot. For a moment, just think what if Elder Bush would have been sworn in? Yeah. No big boom, no walking away from the table in Dublin. No landslide election. Hell, there would still be a berlin wall. No seriously, John Paul II did a lot, but it was a leader from a western country who honestly believed his purpose was to destroy the evil nation that brought down that wall. Sure John Paul II prayed, the people though, they acted on what Reagan had said and that wall, came down. And how can we forget how he left the public scene. A nationwide address, to tell us how he loves his country and how he will begin to ride off into the sunset. This man loved America for what it was and could be. Oh and he hated those Democrats with a passion.

#1 George W....You thought I was going to Bush! HA. Washington. The only President to take the title "Commander in Chief" litterally. He lead the small Army of the nation against those drunken farmers of Kentucky. Not one shot fired. Brilliant move. Why shoot at the leader of your own country. Especially the beloved Washington. The farmers put their guns down and Washington drank whiskey with them. He led a piss-poor army against the British. Piss poor meaning the French had to come to assistance (only time in their history they helped someone else). He saw the country nearly fall apart with the Articles of Confederation. Had wooden teeth. Never shook hands with his guests, always bowed to them. I mean, this guy was a class act every which way. Only thing missing from this great resume is, well..., nothing really. Look at this guy and I promise you, you will see ALL president try to live up to him. They can't do it. He has all the qualities of a leader, yet wasn't rich by any means. He was a surveyor. He watched land. That's not good money. Thats like flippin burgers at McDonald's. I don't have the time to talk all about this guy, but if one future president ever acted like he did...they would be shot.

#2 Ronald Reagan.
...
Hell, there would still be a berlin wall. No seriously, John Paul II did a lot, but it was a leader from a western country who honestly believed his purpose was to destroy the evil nation that brought down that wall. Sure John Paul II prayed, the people though, they acted on what Reagan had said and that wall, came down.
You really, really need to recap your modern history, my friend.

You really, really need to recap your modern history, my friend.The ratings of the typical American statist if you ask me.
These are the people voting, God damn it!

Best: George Washington

Worst: Andrew Jackson

Probably Nixon.

In your opinions, who are the best and worst US presidents (excluding George Bush b/c his terms not over yeat and who knows?) and why?

Depends on how you rank their effectiveness. Because the job of president requires him to protect the constitution, I chose as my standard the question "How well does he adhere to the constitution?"

1) George Washington
2) James Madison
3) Thomas Jefferson
4) James Monroe
5) John Quincy Adams
6) Chester Arthur
7) Grover Cleveland
8) Martin Van Buren
9) John Tyler
10) Zachary Taylor
11) Millard Fillmore
12) Franklin Pierce
13) Rutherford Hayes
14) James Garfield
15) Benjamin Harrison
16) William McKinley
17) Warren Harding
18) Calvin Coolidge
19) Howard Taft
20) John Adams
21) Andrew Johnson
22) Ulysses Grant
23) James Polk
24) Andrew Jackson
25) Harry Truman
26) John Kennedy
27) Gerald Ford
28) James Buchanan
29) Herbert Hoover
30) Theodore Roosevelt
31) Richard Nixon
32) Ronald Reagan
33) George Bush
34) Bill Clinton
35) Woodrow Wilson
36) Dwight Eisenhower
37) Lyndon Johnson
38) Jimmy Carter
39) Abraham Lincoln
40) Franklin Roosevelt

william henry harrison and bush are unranked, along with someone else, i don't know which one i left out

and as much as lincoln freed the slaves

no he didn't you ignorant asshole

He was never President, Pro Tempore or otherwise.

Who ... Nixon?

Nah, just kidding. Yes, I know ... that's why I think he was the best.

Generally speaking, I would say that the worst is Herbert Hoover (although Warren G. Harding with his massive corruption and Richard Nixon with his desire for a United Monarchy of America came close). I say this not because I blame him for the Great Depression; far from it. The Great Depression's resulted from world-wide trends, and here in America were largely the product of policies instituted by the Coolidge Administration, neither of which was anything Hoover really could help.

Rather, I fault him for the fact that for the three years after Black Tuesday and the rapid decline of the economy, he did nothing but sit on his hands and watch. While people with open desire to overthrow the Republic like Eugene Debbs and fascists like Father Coughlin rose to power by promising people a better life, he sat on his hands. People today tend to look at the Great Depression as a quaint little sojourn between booming periods in the Twenties and the post-war period, but they forget that the Republic was closer than any point since the Civil War of completely collapsing (perhaps moreso, since the Civil War was a sectional conflict whereas the Great Depression was a systemic problem), and all that because he felt that he shouldn't do anything to help, or that such help would be beyond his purview as President. That is a categorical failure of leadership and ideology if ever there was one.

The best president is in my view Abraham Lincoln. I say this not because he is without fault: clearly, he did some things that were egregious violations of the Constitution and were determined to be so, such as those cases where he was rebuked by the Supreme Court in Ex Parte Merryman and Ex Parte Milligan. But in the larger sense, I think that he did an outstanding job of trying to uphold the overall integrity and spirit of the system in spite of facing the gravest threat to the Union ever. To be honest, I think that most of the people who level the charge that Lincoln shredded the Constitution (which is not true, most of the things that he has been accused of are powers the President does have under Article II or are simply false accusations) are simply those who cannot abide by the view, correct in my opinion, that the Union is not a compact between states but between citizens, and it is the citizens who are entrusted with the responsibilities and rights accorded to them in our society, not states. I don't agree with most people that he was saintly or that he wasn't at least partly a brilliantly ruthless politician. But it is nevertheless true that had we found someone else to lead the country, I don't think we would have had the resolve to restore the Union and live up to the ideals of the Declaration of Independence.

Worst - Woodrow Wilson and Jimmy Carter were ineffective. Nixon was just plain corrupt.

Best - Kennedy had great vision. Teddy Roosevelt established the National Park system. Jefferson - Louisiana Purchase.

no he didn't you ignorant asshole

well ok, decades of grass roots movements did, but he was the ultimate method of execution. issued the emancipation proclamation, which legally ended most slavery etc...

however, he also did nothign to grant them civil rights, if that's what you were referring to.

Did anyone mention FDR's plan to Pack the courts?

Did anyone mention FDR's plan to Pack the courts?

repeatedly, among other things

Okay I didn't feel like reading the entire thread.

i would say FDR, but for a man who was scared of stairs, soccer and diareha, i cant rag on him. Ill say WIlson..

well ok, decades of grass roots movements did, but he was the ultimate method of execution. issued the emancipation proclamation, which legally ended most slavery etc...

however, he also did nothign to grant them civil rights, if that's what you were referring to.


The emancipation proclamation did not free a single slave. Learn your history before you speak.

Best: Reagan, JFK a close second
Worst: LBJ

LBJ did what he thought was right.

I don't understand why Hoover hasn't been mentioned as often for one of the worst presidents ever.

Rather, I fault him for the fact that for the three years after Black Tuesday and the rapid decline of the economy, he did nothing but sit on his hands and watch. While people with open desire to overthrow the Republic like Eugene Debbs and fascists like Father Coughlin rose to power by promising people a better life, he sat on his hands. People today tend to look at the Great Depression as a quaint little sojourn between booming periods in the Twenties and the post-war period, but they forget that the Republic was closer than any point since the Civil War of completely collapsing (perhaps moreso, since the Civil War was a sectional conflict whereas the Great Depression was a systemic problem), and all that because he felt that he shouldn't do anything to help, or that such help would be beyond his purview as President. That is a categorical failure of leadership and ideology if ever there was one.

Exactly!!!! Mad props to you!

Bah, I generally don't like gibbering about the best and the worst; those are opinion questions. However, I'll give my take on the presidents.

Washington: Washington did some good things- he didn't become King George I, and he chose an excellent cabinet. He also signed into law the first Bank of the US. However, he also signed into law the Fugitive Slave Act and the Indian Intercourse Act (which limited freedom of movement for Natives) and expected Congress to pay him through an exorbitant expense account (Congress denied this request; they had experience with Washington's expense accounts from the Revolutionary War). Mainly, Washington took little official action, but tried to unofficially guide the shape and policies of the nation.

Jefferson: The expansion of the country was good, even if he had to do a little fancy footwork to make it constitutional. However, his Embargo Act royally screwed up the US, and I generally lean against any pre-Civil War president that opposed industrialization (yay, hindsight!).

Madison: This was the man who helped lead the call for the War of 1812, an almost entirely aggressive war meant to take Canada and (arguably) the first war the US lost. The war resulted in a few hundred thousand deaths, the burning of the White House, and a return to the status quo- including the continuance of impressment. The guy also vetoed an act to support internal improvement; I also tend to lean against anyone who opposes improving American infrastructure ('tis a lesson governments have known since the Roman Empire: Infrastructure is good).

John Quincy Adams: Personally, I like this guy. Like his dad, he probably ranks in the top 50 smartest prominent Americans; he was an internationalist who spoke several languages and had traveled throughout the world; and in his first Presidential address to Congress, he declared that the US's future was in the stars, and that some day, America would build lighthouses in the sky and land a man on the moon. This speech was made in 1821. He also improved the US's roads and canals; as I mentioned before, I generally consider this a good thing. The main problem is that Adams came into power under a cloud of controversy, with his "corrupt bargain" with Henry Clay.

Andrew Jackson: Ugh, I don't like this guy. A flamboyant tough-guy redneck who liked to fight, who completely disregarded the Supreme Court to start the Trail of Tears, and who expanded the power of the Presidency to an uncomfortable degree. He opposed the Bank of the US (which I consider good), he advanced the spoils system, and he almost started the Civil War 30 years early by threatening to march on South Carolina. Don't like him.

William Henry Harrison: "Old Tippecanoe" gave the longest inaugaration speech in American history (in the rain), caught pneumonia, and died a month later. You have to admit, that's not a lot of time to screw things up.

Polk: Peaceful resolution to the Aroostook War: Good. Peaceful settling of the Oregon border: Good. Fabricating the cause of war with Mexico: Bad. Getting California and Texas to peacefully join the Union: Good. While I find the Mexican-American War to be distasteful, I grudgingly admit that its effects have been generally good.

Lincoln: *sigh* This one is complicated. I like his economic policy, although it's rarely mentioned in discussions of him; his policies included free land grants for agricultural universities, selling government-owned western land for a token price, the creation of a national banking system, and (a lot of people are going to hate this) the first income taxes. He did a good job of handling the Civil War (with the exception of firing Winfield Scott as head of the US Army), and I like his plans for Reconstruction and emancipation (he planned to give "seven acres and a mule" to every freed black family). However, his violation of basic human rights by suspending the writ of habeas corpus was reprehensible and difficult to justify.

The emancipation proclamation did not free a single slave. Learn your history before you speak.

Actually, it did- later in the war. This complaint has always bugged me- while the Proclamation didn't liberate a single slave on Jan. 1, 1963 (the day it was issued), it caused the Union Army to liberate all slaves in the land it would take thereafter.

Grant: *sigh* Poor guy. He was never meant to be a politician. Grant meant well, but he trusted his cabinet too much; Grant therefore became a figurehead to a corrupt cabinet and a corrupt Congress, greatly tarnishing the image of politics and politicians.

Cleveland: Not much to say here, except that I admire anyone with enough perseverance to have his two terms be seperated by a lost election. This does tend to be rather annoying, though; because his two non-consecutive terms are considered to be seperate administrations, counting up the presidents can be complicated.

McKinley: At the behest of the rabidly nationalist media (the media was quite open about its biases in those days), McKinley interpreted an accident as an attack and started the US's most imperialist action, the Spanish-American War. Aside from that, McKinley didn't do much except get assassinated. Interestingly, he was the first president to ride in an automobile- the ambulance that took him to the hospital after he was shot.

Teddy Roosevelt: This guy is annoyingly complex. I like his domestic policy; he restored vigor to the Presidency that had been missing since Lincoln's death, he limited the power of trusts and big business, he established the National Park system, and he did some work against racism. However, I despise his interventionist foreign policy- the "Roosevelt Corollary" to the Monroe Doctrine (Roosevelt's claim was that the US had a right to interfere in the affairs of Latin American countries when it wished) was a horribly unethical policy, and his implied threat of military force in the secession of Panama from Columbia was a reprehensible act. The only good thing about Roosevelt's foreign policy was the negotiated peace of the Russo-Japanese War in 1905.

Wilson: Wilson was a peaceful, intelligent man, which I think is good- we need more smart people in the Presidency, unlike that idiot Jackson. He didn't stand in favor of big businesses, but he also opposed the women's suffrage amendment and laws to end child labor; basically, he didn't want to favor anyone at all. He changed his mind on the suffrage amendment, though. Unfortunately, he also promoted racist policies, and was distrustful of people that identified themselves by their ethnic homeland (German-Americans, for example); he feared that they would have split loyalties. The main positive point about Wilson is his foreign policy- he was an idealist, who continually tried to bring WWI to an end. He also tried to convince the other Allies to show moderation to Germany, although that effort failed.

Franklin Roosevelt: I'm generally pretty supportive of Roosevelt. I think his economic policies helped drag the US out of the Great Depression. His tampering with the Supreme Court was certainly a reprehensible act at the time, but I'm inclined to think that it was better in the long run to have more Justices in the court. Despite people's claims here, Roosevelt did support American entry into WWII; however, there was no way that Congress was going to support such a move until Pearl Harbor, and it's Congress that declares war, not the President (something many people seem to forget these days). He still tried to support the Allied war effort through the Lend-Lease system. His most reprehensible act, in my opinion, was the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII.

Eisenhower: Eisenhower's good points involve keeping the economic boom from Roosevelt and Truman going and building the Interstate system (yay, infrastructure!). However, he fell down in foreign affairs as he worsened the Cold War.

Kennedy: I'm one of the few people who doesn't like Kennedy much. While I like his economic and social views (yay, anti-Jim Crow legislation!), I think he royally screwed up his foreign policy with the Bay of Pigs fiasco and the American entry into Vietnam. Methinks that, like Lincoln, he was assassinated before his reputation went sour.

Johnson: I regard Johnson the same way I regard Kennedy- his foreign policy was abyssmally stupid, but he did well in supporting civil rights.

Carter: I think that Carter tends to be unfairly reviled. He formed a national energy policy, he created the Departments of Energy and Education, he deregulated several industries (something that should make conservatives/libertarians happy), he improved the social security system, he improved environmental protections, and he generally acted in favor of peace and reconciliation with the USSR and China in the international arena. His main problem was that problems in Iran, OPEC, and Afghanistan caused economic and political problems beyond his control. Damn, I really like this guy now.

Reagan: Ugh. I think Reagan got lucky- his reckless expansion of the US's nuclear capabilities could have resulted in nuclear war just as easily as the economic collapse of the USSR. His administration fueled the Iraq-Iran War, he cut welfare programs (well, I find that bad, anyway), and he acquired a huge national debt (sounds familiar...). Of course, the guy seemed to demonstrate early symptoms of Alzheimer's, so that may explain some of his worse actions.

Worst, Jimmy Carter

Best, President Ronald Reagan

And the guy that fell down alot.
And they guy that my local airport is named after.
He played a little bit too much Woverine football!
Whats up Grand River! [/American Pie Joke]

Best President: Teddy Roosevelt

I'd rather not comment on the worst presidents. Too much to choose from.

LBJ did what he thought was right.

So did Hitler,

I don't understand why Hoover hasn't been mentioned as often for one of the worst presidents ever.

He was..top of the page.

anyways..

Best: Abe Lincoln.
No President had to deal with as much personal tragedy, hardship, and political strife as Lincoln did, and when all was said and done, the Union was held firm.

Worst:
G.W Bush.
...dont get me started.

Worst, Jimmy Carter

Best, President Ronald Reagan


Ineffectual, isnt the same as bad policy.
What can you really do when the House, and Senate are controlled by the opposition, and shoot down everything you try to do?

I suppose, if you mean by "best", "propped up the most dangerous tinpot dictators, that would later come back to haunt US policy", then Reagan certainly qualifies.

Worst:
G.W Bush.
...dont get me started.

Apparently people cannot read.

Here let me help you out. It says at the top over there You cannot include the current President.

But since people insist on doing so.

Tell me why he is the worst. I mean no one can top the guy who was president for only one month. Grant and all of his corruption. Hell Carter and his handling of the hostage situation.

All you will tell me is this... "President Bush is a drunken coke addict who stole the 2000 election by means of his toadies on the Supreme Court and from there he either deliberately ignored intelligence indicating the 9/11 attacks were coming or he had a hand in carrying out the attacks; be that as it may, he didn't know what he was doing when the attacks happened but he was also using the attacks to carry out his long-planned imperial conquest of Iraq to get revenge for his daddy's 1992 re-election loss, or was it for Halliburton contracts, or becaue Shaon's Likud ordered it...whatever; President Bush then deliberately took his forcus of Osama because of his long family connections with the bin Laden family and went after Saddam, the legitimately elected Presdient of Iraq who wasn't even the smallest threat to anyone...."

Oh well, such is life.

He played a little bit too much Woverine football!
Whats up Grand River! [/American Pie Joke]

Best President: Teddy Roosevelt

I'd rather not comment on the worst presidents. Too much to choose from.

*points to location*

Fuck you.

So did Hitler,



He was..top of the page.

anyways..

Best: Abe Lincoln.
No President had to deal with as much personal tragedy, hardship, and political strife as Lincoln did, and when all was said and done, the Union was held firm.

Worst:
G.W Bush.
...dont get me started.
When did I say LBJ did what he thought was right? If I ever said that, I meant to say FDR. And please don't tell me yoour are comparing being elected president for four terms to the holocost among other things.

The worst was clearly Garfield. He ruled with an iron first and his tyrannical reign shall never be forgotten.

The best was ole' Grover.


~Alan Smithee
Puppet of [Censored]~

The worst was clearly Garfield. He ruled with an iron first and his tyrannical reign shall never be forgotten.

The best was ole' Grover.


~Alan Smithee
Puppet of [Censored]~

Yeah, that's obviously the reason they killed him after a couple of months.:)