NationStates Jolt Archive

Who do you think will have the majority in the Palestinian parliament after these elections? I think Hamas will. I think the Palestinians are more than willing to vote in a terrorist organization just because Fatah is seen as corrupt.

I dont think I want Hammas or Fatah to win. Fatah will mean more of the same corrupt ineffiecent governening and Hammas might mean an end to any peace process. Im hoping moderate Indepedants get a large number of seats but I suspect Hammas will win.

Who do you think will have the majority in the Palestinian parliament after these elections? I think Hamas will. I think the Palestinians are more than willing to vote in a terrorist organization just because Fatah is seen as corrupt.

Yay! Good. And about bloody time- Israel will soon no longer be the only democracy. Hamas is meant to come out with about 30% of the vote, although I don't know what type they are using. (FPTP, PR-STV, PR-List, other)

Actually, Hamas has softened its approach to Israel now that it is standing in parliamentary elections. It has removed all references to "driving Israelis to the sea" etc etc and appears to be more open to talking on a political level.

Its a start at least.

Yay! Good. And about bloody time- Israel will soon no longer be the only democracy. Hamas is meant to come out with about 30% of the vote, although I don't know what type they are using. (FPTP, PR-STV, PR-List, other)

Actually, Hamas has softened its approach to Israel now that it is standing in parliamentary elections. It has removed all references to "driving Israelis to the sea" etc etc and appears to be more open to talking on a political level.

Its a start at least.
No, I don't think Hamas has softened it's approach at all. They might use some PR tactics, like when they staged the "massacre" at Jenin, but I don't think their original goals will ever change. Well, maybe they will, but only to target the US as well as Israel.

Who do you think will have the majority in the Palestinian parliament after these elections? I think Hamas will. I think the Palestinians are more than willing to vote in a terrorist organization just because Fatah is seen as corrupt.
Those who do not want a Palestinian state by their side are not banned from government office in Israel. In a free democracy, anyone should have the right to express their beliefs and be voted in if those beliefs are popular. Hamas is not campaigning on a "kill all Israelis" platform, anyway; it is campaigning for an end to the corruption and waste of Fatah's rule.

Those who do not want a Palestinian state by their side are not banned from government office in Israel. In a free democracy, anyone should have the right to express their beliefs and be voted in if those beliefs are popular. Hamas is not campaigning on a "kill all Israelis" platform, anyway; it is campaigning for an end to the corruption and waste of Fatah's rule.
I agree with you that they have toned down their rhetoric, and I agree that they have the right to stand for elections in their own territory. I just think that if Hamas wins a majority Israel will be in great danger and should be ready to retaliate forcefully and mercilessly if they are attacked. There are consequences attatched to voting. The US voted in Bush and now we have a costly occupation of Iraq to contend with. The Palestinians vote in Hamas and they share the responsibility and the consequences of any Hamas attack on Israel.

No, I don't think Hamas has softened it's approach at all.


No, they actually have. Its not much- but all commentators observing the campaigning have noticing that Hamas has not once mentioned destroying Israel in their election platform (a staple diet normally for Arab support). This is a new (subtle true) direction and I for one hope it is serious.

Politics softens groups the closer they get to power. They become less extreme.

No, they actually have. Its not much- but all commentators observing the campaigning have noticing that Hamas has not once mentioned destroying Israel in their election platform (a staple diet normally for Arab support). This is a new (subtle true) direction and I for one hope it is serious.

Politics softens groups the closer they get to power. They become less extreme.
Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. I think it's just a put on. Kinda like "compassionate conservatism" or "culture of life". It's easy to say such words, but it doesn't translate into jobs for the homeless or an end to the death penalty. Hamas' rhetoric won't translate into accepting Israel's existence IMHO.

Like it says in the bible, Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
Jeremiah 13:23

I agree with you that they have toned down their rhetoric, and I agree that they have the right to stand for elections in their own territory. I just think that if Hamas wins a majority Israel will be in great danger and should be ready to retaliate forcefully and mercilessly if they are attacked. There are consequences attatched to voting. The US voted in Bush and now we have a costly occupation of Iraq to contend with. The Palestinians vote in Hamas and they share the responsibility and the consequences of any Hamas attack on Israel.
I don't think Israel will automatically be in great danger if Hamas gains a majority; it is possible that they will adopt a violently anti-Israel policy, but I don't think it likely. Much of the credibility of Hamas to the Palestinian electorate is based upon the promise of cleaning up the corruption of Fatah; the people have little desire to continue the intifada. More violence would be political suicide for Hamas.

Hamas won't gain a majority anyway, so this is all speculation, but if it did, and if it decided to do something as stupid as attack Israel, I still do not think this would justify attacks on civilians as retaliation. Nothing does.

I don't think Israel will automatically be in great danger if Hamas gains a majority; it is possible that they will adopt a violently anti-Israel policy, but I don't think it likely. Much of the credibility of Hamas to the Palestinian electorate is based upon the promise of cleaning up the corruption of Fatah; the people have little desire to continue the intifada. More violence would be political suicide for Hamas.

Hamas won't gain a majority anyway, so this is all speculation, but if it did, and if it decided to do something as stupid as attack Israel, I still do not think this would justify attacks on civilians as retaliation. Nothing does.

Exactly. It won't gain overall power, but it will gain valuable political experience leading to a path (a long one) of participation and negotiation.

Hey, no one thought the IRA would end up on the political train, nor would they disarm, nor actually get into power- but over time all those were achieved.

Its not beyond the hopeful realms of possibility that the same happens to Hamas.

Funny ... people said Palestinians would elect terrorists after Arafat died, too ..

Didn't happen then ... why would it happen now?

Like it says in the bible, Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
Jeremiah 13:23
this is an interesting problem -as much if not more in attitude and name as in practice. I for one, will have trouble ever looking at the name of "hamas" and thinking in terms of legitimate, democratic, group with a right to govern - instead my thoughts go immediately to violence, murder, hatred, and decades of sabotaging peace attempts. Now it may very well be that Hamas has decided to alter its direction and vie for legitimate power - they are certainly mainstream enough in the palestinian population to do so.

We, the lookers-on should not make this transition harder by constantly declaring our conviction that such a thing is impossible. I think it is possible, though not agreeable to my sentiments, and hard to reconcile with, considering Hamas's very recent history. However, I think Israel needs to face a future in which Hamas and other terrorist groups grab a footjold in mainstream politics, and if their actions show them worthy, be prepared to negotiate with them too.

, like when they staged the "massacre" at Jenin,

Where did they get the Bulldozers?

Btw, how did they stage this http://tania.blythe-systems.com/pipermail/nytr/Week-of-Mon-20040517/001748.html

If theres to be a stop to "terrorism" then there must be a removal of the settlements and an end to the occupation.

Where did they get the Bulldozers?

Btw, how did they stage this little IDF outing? (http://http://tania.blythe-systems.com/pipermail/nytr/Week-of-Mon-20040517/001748.html)

If theres to be a stop to "terrorism" then there must be a removal of the stellements and an end to the occupation.
1) your link doesn't work
2) can we *not* rehash the same old same old in cliched mantras?

I think the Palestinians are more than willing to vote in a terrorist organization just because Fatah is seen as corrupt.Likewise... I think the Canadians are more than willing to vote in a Conservative organization just because the PLC is seen as corrupt.

1) your link doesn't work
2) can we *not* rehash the same old same old in cliched mantras?

I have fixed the link. My apologies.

The fact that the occupation is both the cause and sustaining force behind Hamas, Islamic Jihad etc is not any the less true for repetition. Secondly, its a a fact which is not repeated often enough, or strongly enough.

No, they actually have. Its not much- but all commentators observing the campaigning have noticing that Hamas has not once mentioned destroying Israel in their election platform (a staple diet normally for Arab support). This is a new (subtle true) direction and I for one hope it is serious.

Politics softens groups the closer they get to power. They become less extreme.

Actually the paper recently had an article on that. One of the candidates said the "safe" things for election purposes. Then the reporter noted he spoke of the destruction of Israel at a rally.

I am not sure they have softened their approach. Just being more politically minded when the talk.

As I think of it the same guy said Hamas wanted to be a friend to the US but then in the same sentence issued a threat about getting in their way.....