NationStates Jolt Archive

My name is earl is on so it gave me the idea

I believe in certain mystical luck-altering forces, but none of them are as simple as karma. If you sort of vaguely wish for something in the right way but don't really care, it may be more likely to happen.

I don't believe in traditional Hindu karma, because that is just a crock of shit invented to keep the lower castes in line for fear off getting demoted to wildabeast status next life. However I do believe that there is a psychological element to doing "bad" things.
A large part of it is that people tend to see reflections of themselves everywhere they look. So if you are a thief or murderer, you become worried that everyone else is one as well, and that makes you paranoid and unhappy over time.

I was talking about the, do good things, have goodthings at you..

NIt the Hindu thing..

Hinuism is worse then nazisam, and is utterley racist, the heigh casts are decendents of aryans who came there long ago and made the whole hindu thing, the lower cast's are tamill looking, in other words white high cast, brownish low acst:mad:

I'm not 100% sure on this but I think Karma is extremly miss understood. And I was speaking to a Buddist a while ago, he was telling me Karma isn't some magical force that makes evil people unlucky and good people all get good things back. I think its more just a philosophy that if you treat the people/world nicely people will be inclined to do the same to you. Where as violent people and the like while they may never have anything bad happen to them they seem to be more likely to get a violent attack on themselves.

Thats my understanding of karma from what I've been told. And I think thats a good way to view life.

No.

Simple answer really.

Karma, in my understanding of the concept anyway, assumes that there is some sort of justice in this world. However, I really do wonder about that being the case.

My understanding of karma isn't so much about luck. It's more, 'you do this, this will happen'. In the spiritual way, no, I don't believe in it. In the physical, cause-and-effect way, yes I do. Punch that guy, I'll probably pay for it later.

So if you are a thief or murderer, you become worried that everyone else is one as well, and that makes you paranoid and unhappy over time.

Spoken with such authority. Almost like you know, or something...

I don't believe in karma, or at least not in the mystical sense.

In the physical, cause-and-effect way, yes I do. Punch that guy, I'll probably pay for it later.

Yeah, about eight seconds later when he gets up and puts a pool cue through your neck.

what goes around comes around, you reap what you sow..........I don't think it actually counts as Karma though, but yeah, pretty close. ;)

Spoken with such authority. Almost like you know, or something...
I've worn many hats, and quite a few of those hats actually belonged to other people when I flogged off them to Japanese tourists.
I don't believe in karma, or at least not in the mystical sense.
Neither do I, but between the psychological effects and the chance that someone will retaliate some day, justice of a sort can be delivered.

Nope. Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, and the Karma Fairy is nowhere to be found.

My karma ran over your dogma. :)

I don't really believe in karma. I'm officially agnostic, but I do believe a few crackpot theories: that perhaps the force that started our creation and the framework for our evolution is no longer presiding over our lives, that we experience our lives for a reason, and most importantly, that the actions you do now don't have a tightly correlating influence over the luck you get in the future. I would believe that when a person dies their "soul (read: ability to experience life, not a distinct personality)" is reincarnated, but not as a higher or lower being in the balance of life (all animals etc are equal and all lifeforms have an equally valuable position in the ecosystem), but maybe as a random lifeform, maybe not in this universe etc...

I don't as much believe in karma as I see how going around doing bad things will lead to my untimely death.
This is why I'm going to wait till I'm elected to power and can change the constitution so the my being a tyrranical dictator is right before becoming a tyrannical dictator.

NIt the Hindu thing..

Hinuism is worse then nazisam, and is utterley racist, the heigh casts are decendents of aryans who came there long ago and made the whole hindu thing, the lower cast's are tamill looking, in other words white high cast, brownish low acst

Indeed, it's such an obvious case of "religion is the opium of the masses". The entire thing is just so blatantly about maintaining control of one race over another.

I highly doubt the concept of karma. I haven't even been able to find any clearly objective moral rules, so karma seems unlikely.

Indeed, it's such an obvious case of "religion is the opium of the masses". The entire thing is just so blatantly about maintaining control of one race over another.

I highly doubt the concept of karma. I haven't even been able to find any clearly objective moral rules, so karma seems unlikely.


I'm not a fan of religion, but Karma is something I can get behind. I'll be the first one to say theres no magical force keeping an equal balance and anyone believing that is dillusional. But frankly if I see someone do something nice to someone else or being polite and friendly then heck I'll go out of my way to do the same for them and vice versa.

Your not fooling yourself that you'll have an eternity of bliss for following a couple of rules, just making the enviroment and people around you have a nicer place to live. People use this arguement for religion (the fixed morals scare people to behave) and its clear the extra baggage and conflict makes it hassle either way, but Karma as a lone concept it great. For me its not supposed to be "right" or "wrong" just a good way to live life.

No. It'd be nice, but I don't believe it exists.

Perhaps on a basis of conscience (i.e. you do something bad, you feel something bad) but then even that isn't universal, and it's utterly personal to what you think is good and bad... So even that fails on anything other than a personal karma for me.

:rolleyes:

When did this turn into hinduism bashing?

Practices of hindu society != ideals of hindu religion.

No. End of story...:D

An excerpt from a Vaishnava site.

Karma is one of the most basic doctrines of Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism) and a thorough understanding of the dynamics of Karma is essential for any degree of Spiritual advancement.

Sanatana Dharma takes for granted that there is order pervading the universe. Karma is the doctrine of the economy of action.

The word karma means 'action' and refers to the entire cycle of action and its consequences. Every action in addition to its physical goal produces a moral consequence which manifests as either joy or sorrow.

All good actions produce happiness and all evil actions result in suffering. This law operates whether we are conscious of it or not. It is the process by which we shape our own destinies and build up our own reality. Through ignorance we bind ourselves through selfish actions, feelings or thoughts. As long as our actions are directed towards self gratification alone there is not the slightest possibility of working towards liberation from the cycle of reincarnation. Even the smallest thought or act has consequences which are not settled with death.

Cause and Effect

In this life we experience the effect and often feel resentful that we are now suffering for the course of action set into motion by someone else.

But when one looks at life from the point of view of immortality, and the soul or Self as an eternal imperishable spiritual entity then everything falls into a pattern of cause and effect.

Karma as the law of spiritual dynamics makes us self-reliant beings with the realization that we can never escape responsibility. We can never plead ignorance of the law nor take the attitude - this time it won't matter. In fact the effect is inherent in the cause and therefore the two are in fact one continuum. In the inviolability of the law lies our potential freedom. It enables us to modify, change and remold our character which is the result of our past lives and to create our future character in greater perfection - improving on our mistakes from the past knowing that not one single iota of effort goes to waste.

Predestination - Karma is often misunderstood as a synonym for destiny or fate. Karma is neither of these, it is a cosmic law which negates any possibility of luck, good fortune, or chance. Behind every fortuitous opportunity or apparent stroke of luck lies the energy which we ourselves have generated. Likewise behind every loss and misfortune lies the negative energy which we ourselves have created. We are powerless to change what actually happens to us but we have complete freedom to determine how we will deal with each and every situation that arise and turn it to benefit or harm. Predestination, fate or destiny implies that there is an external force which is imposing its own agenda onto us. Karma is the law whereby we create and experience our own agendas. We have the power to visualize, plan, work for and achieve our own certain future.

Dynamics of Karma

The actual working out of the law of Karma is extremely complex including millions of fine permutations and tunings affecting the lives of all of those around us and everyone that we have ever known. All these dynamics are controlled by the Devas (Cosmic Forces) of Karma. But there are certain basic principles which we need to understand. We are all acting one three different realms; physical, emotional and mental with energies appropriate to each realm. These energies are known as:

kriya shakti - physical realm; physical actions determine our physical environment.

iccha shakti - emotional realm; our emotional life revolves around our family, friends and associates and determines our interaction with them, and

jñana shakti - mental realm; our world of thoughts, goals and aspirations which determine how we interact with the world around us and ultimately understand ourselves.

All these three energies together make up our character.

Sin and Virtue

No action can be said to be neutral; every word, deed or thought has an effect. Our thoughts affect us directly while our speech and physical actions affect our environment. Although the concept of sin (papa) is linked to Karma one must understand that the Vedantic concept of sin is quite different to the Christian concept. Sin is defined in the Mahabharata as follows;

paropaka:ra:h punya:ya pa : pa: ya para pi:d:anam || Virtue is that which benefits other beings; sin is that which causes pain to others.

The entire moral theology of Sanatana Dharma rests upon the concept of "benefit of all beings" (sarva-bhuta-hita). Motivation or intention is the deciding factor of the moral nature of an action. Motivation which centers on the welfare of others is of the nature of goodness and purity whereas motivation which centers upon the individual and his needs is negative and leads to suffering and bondage to the cycle of births and deaths.

Sin is an un-skilled use of action, a lack of spiritual understanding which causes one to transgress the Cosmic Laws (Rita). And the means of sinning are the mind, the speech and actions. The unskillful use of thought is manifest in thinking harmful thoughts directed towards others and clinging to irrational and erroneous doctrines. The unskillful use of speech is detected in lying, slandering, gossiping, and abusing others and giving false teachings. The unskillful use of action is causing physical injury to other living beings, and not rendering assistance in time of need. All well-directed virtuous actions leads to spiritual development and happiness, all unskillful actions slow spiritual growth and produce unhappiness.

Types of Karma There are three types of Karma including both negative and positive;

§ 1. Sanchita Karma; the accumulated results of acts which have been committed in the past lives and are waiting to come to fruition in the future.

§ 2. Prarabdha Karma; acts done in the past which have resulted in the circumstances of the present incarnation and are causing all the joys and sorrows which we are now experiencing.

§ 3 Kriyamana Karma; All the actions which are now being performed; the results of which will be experienced at a later date and will condition the circumstances of the next incarnation.

Prarabdha karma is beyond the control of the individual and the results which have produced our present conditions have to be born with patience. It is like the seed which has been planted in the past and is now flowering.

Sanchita karma is like seed which has been stored and can be remitted through the Grace of the Guru or God.

The kriyamana karma or the present actions are entirely under the control of the individual and must be performed with the utmost awareness that each individual is the author of his/her own destiny and each and every action, no matter how trivial will have an effect, unless all actions and their consequences are surrendered unto God, (karma phala tyaga). Once surrendered, all actions are purified and everything is done as service to God alone and thus even mundane actions become the vehicle of Liberation.

Suffering

The doctrine of karma explains the universal experience and problem of suffering. There are three factors in suffering;

a ) the person who is suffering

b ) an agent of suffering such as a person, thing, condition etc.,

c.) and the degree of suffering.

Once we have understood the nature of the self as it really is and understood the dynamic of actions and their consequences, then the agent of suffering becomes incidental and secondary. We no longer bear any anger or resentment towards the person or thing that is seen to be causing the suffering because they are merely agents of our own karma.

It is on this basis and this basis alone that we can truly love our "enemy" and return love for hurt, compassion for thoughtlessness. When the experience of suffering is thus understood it becomes an opportunity for self-development and spiritual transformation and its intensity is greatly diminished. The suffering and happiness of each being is in exact proportion to its deeds. And even suffering is meant to correct and rehabilitate the one suffering. Suffering is the source of great lessons and the vehicle of greater understanding and insight if used with awareness and insight into the law of Karma.

The Three Causes of Bad Karma

There are three things which cause us to perform sinful actions which lead to demerit and suffering; they are:

Desire (kama), Anger (krodha) and Greed (lobha).

These three are known as the three poisons which retard spiritual growth and the three gateways to hell.

Desire (Kama) primarily and generally refers to the libido which is the strongest drive we have. In specific terms it is the desire which is self-centered and directed purely at self-gratification. It is wrongly directed desire which is unhelpful to spiritual progress, and thus prolongs one's existence in Samsara.

Anger (Krodha) is the reaction towards unfulfilled desires and failed expectations one has of others. This leads to causing injury and hurt to others which in turn results in bad karma and further suffering. Our sages teach us that a moment's outburst of anger destroys heaps of merit painstakingly accumulated over long periods of time.

Greed (Lobha) is the craving for more beyond the limits of necessity or comfort and the inability to share that surplus with others. Its goal is having and possessing for the sake of possession itself without any personal use or benefit to others. Its dynamism lies in the inability to rejoice at the good fortune of others and actually manifests as a desire to obstruct the progress and prosperity of others.

All these three poisons have their origin in delusion. Delusion (moha) is the notion that the body is the Self and that one is a unique and separate entity to all others, this results in craving and clinging. This conviction is the very axis on which the cycle of reincarnation revolves. Until we attain enlightenment and realize that we are not the physical body but eternal spiritual entities which are sparks of divinity, dependant upon and subservient to the Supreme Being then we will continue indefinitely in bondage to the material nature.

Karma and Grace

The question which will invariably be asked is what part does God have in this law of Karma. The Lord is known as Karma-Phala-Data the "Dispenser-of-the-fruit-of-action"

He dispenses the fruit of action with perfect justice and impartiality. The Lord is not responsible for the suffering or the happiness of anyone, it is oneself alone that creates and carries out one's destiny. The effects of Karma are considered to be beginningless and it is almost impossible to free oneself from the tangle of actions and reactions, it requires hundreds of births in which a concerted and continued effort is made to reach perfection. So it is only through the grace of God that Liberation from the fetters of Karma can be achieved quickly. God is always ready to forgive and remit all our transgressions we need only request. The way of liberation lies in the path of self-surrender. The ultimate teaching is given by the Supreme Lord in the Bhagavad Gita 18:66

"Abandon all self-initiated means for obtaining liberation, take refuge in ME alone. I (Krishna) will redeem you from all Karma, and grant you Liberation, do not grieve."

In Visistadavaita (or Srivaishnavism) a distinction is drawn between the aspirant that follows the Path of Devotion (bhakta) and the one who renounces the fruit of all action and takes refuge in the Lord (prapanna). Devotion (bhakti) destroys the residue of sanchita karma but the one who follows the path of Devotion as taught in the Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads will have to take one or two more births in order to rid himself completely of the effects of Prarabdha karma. In the case of the prapanna who has renounced the fruit of all actions and taken refuge in the Lord alone, no future births will occur because the anabhyupagata portion of the prarabdha karma is destroyed by the grace of the Lord along with the sanchita karma.

Sri Rama Ramanujacharya

It’s a bunch of bullshit if you ask me. The most major reason being that it is impossible to define what is a “good” or “bad” beyond the most basic. Most of these basics are not encountered in daily life. Thus, you can’t even be sure what would generate good or bad karma.

Plus, as the esteemed Fiddlebottoms already pointed out, reincarnation related karma is just an attempt to keep people in line.

Also, common experience shows us that “good” things happen to “good” people, “bad” things happen to “good” people, “good” things happen to “bad” people and bad things happen to “bad” people. Either we have no idea what this mystical force considers to be good and bad, or it just doesn’t fucking exist. I am inclined to believe the latter.

I don't believe in karma. Cause and effect are observable due to my actions, which are motivated by my personality, and that's that (for me).

Of course I believe in Karma. He's one of my fellow moderators.

The idea of instant Karma is pretty lame in my opinion. Sure there's reciporcal altruism as well as punishment for misdeeds in any organized society, but the idea that "the universe" is keeping track of your actions and planning next Tuesday for a bird to crap in your eye, well that's just ridiculous. Go read Moby Dick people.

Of course I believe in Karma. He's one of my fellow moderators.

Yay. :)

Yes.

My karma ran over your dogma. :)

lmao :D

Karma has been redefined by modern-day pagans. Basically, if you don't learn what you need to learn now, you will be forced to learn it later and under much less pleasant circumstances. In this sense, I do believe in Karma.

In the sense that good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people; I don't believe it for one minute - I've seen too many good people suffering and too many jerks living the good life.

I'm not 100% sure on this but I think Karma is extremly miss understood. And I was speaking to a Buddist a while ago, he was telling me Karma isn't some magical force that makes evil people unlucky and good people all get good things back. I think its more just a philosophy that if you treat the people/world nicely people will be inclined to do the same to you. Where as violent people and the like while they may never have anything bad happen to them they seem to be more likely to get a violent attack on themselves.

Thats my understanding of karma from what I've been told. And I think thats a good way to view life.

Kinda like the idea of everything being linked together in some way; and how things eventually come back to us, be it not always straight away.

I'm a hardcore beiliver in Karma. Yeah. Keep reading and then quote me and say "I like Bob Dylan".