NationStates Jolt Archive

Man. Look. First off, I am not religious, but I don't really care if you are, or you aren't. (Pretty much the same way I feel about straight edge, but that's another story) The one problem I really have is if you try to shove your opinions down my throat. It doesn't matter if they are pro religious or anti religious. I really just don't care. So please, shut up. I don't want to hear it.

There are so many religious posts that go something like "Proof the Bible is fake" or "Jesus wasn't real!." or whatever. Look, I'm not Christian, but seriously. What is the point of just trashing on what someone beleives. YOU ALREADY DON'T BELEIVE IN GOD, WHY MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT HOW YOU ARE RIGHT. YOU ALREADY KNOW IN YOUR HEAD THAT YOU ARE RIGHT, THERE'S NO POINT IN RANTING ABOUT IT AND TRASHING ON RELIGIOUS POEPLE. I'm not religious, but what's the point. Are you just trying to spite religious people? Shut up. Get over yourself. Think what you want, but don't force other people into it. Same goes for religious people. Look dude, you beleive in God, good for you. It's good to have something to beleive in. (I personally beleive in myself.) But, don't shove your beleifs down someones throat. You already have faith in God, you KNOW he is real. Why do you need to prove it. You know the truth.

And what really grinds my gears is all the dumb religious/ anti-religious scientists who are spending all this money to prove the shroud of turin is real or not real. Why can't we just spend on money on something worthwhile?

Thanks. I'm sure the responses I will get won't please me, but I'll tell you something. It feels good to rant. very good. It makes me purr like a walrus. WoooOooOOooOoooooOOOoo.:rolleyes:

breath:)

Did that really warrant a new thread? :rolleyes:

Did that really warrant a new thread? :rolleyes:
lol, i was gonna post that as a reply in another thread. but i wanted to feel special and start my own thread.:p

The religious believe in and act as if fairy tales are real. This cuases troubles for those who know those fairy tales are in fact fairy tales. That is a militant athiest side.

The heathens will not listen to the word of God they bring impurity, corruption and destruction down on themselves and the community. They corrupt the the minds of the young. They turn are communities into Sodom and Gomorra. That is the side of the religious right.

Im behind you a 100% of the way on this. People dont realize that they just have to believe in what they believe in and leave everyone else the hell alone. I mean look into the past and see how many wars have been waged because of religion, been around since the middle ages.

The religious believe in and act as if fairy tales are real. This cuases troubles for those who know those fairy tales are in fact fairy tales. That is a militant athiest side.

The heathens will not listen to the word of God they bring impurity, corruption and destruction down on themselves and the community. They corrupt the the minds of the young. They turn are communities into Sodom and Gomorra. That is the side of the religious right.

i pretty much hate militantism on any issue on any side. except militant anti-militantism. ahaha, just kidding.

I agree entirely. Opinion-shoving in any form is a) Annoying and b) Highly unlikely to change anyone's minds.

As regards religion specifically, if someone is posting incorrect facts about a religion's beliefs, I don't see it as shoving opinions to correct them. If someone wanders around saying 'Christians eat babies!' saying 'No, they don't' is informing them. However, if they're saying 'God doesn't exist!' then saying 'Yes he does' is down to opinion, and I'll try to avoid it.

The other situation where I'll enter a discussion on beliefs is if someone specifically asks about them. If it's being requested, it's not being shoved, and no-one who's not interested needs to read it.

-- I think 'don't get involved in opinion-shoving wars' should be everyone's (late) New Year's Resolutions, but that's just an opinion. (Does it count as shoving if it's just an aside and you're only trying to explain without convincing? I don't think so, but...)

I honestly look forward to these posts, that have actually nothing to say.

It's perverse, I know.

[QUOTE=Willamena]I honestly look forward to these posts, that have actually nothing to say.

Oh? and posts where people are fighting and cussing people over about religion say things that are important?

[QUOTE=Ham-o]Man. Look. First off, I am not religious, but I don't really care if you are, or you aren't. (Pretty much the same way I feel about straight edge, but that's another story) The one problem I really have is if you try to shove your opinions down my throat....QUOTE]
I agree. However I think many religious people's faith dictate that they must "gain converts" to be "saved". And many anti-theists feel that organized religion has harmed (and continues to work to the detriment of) society, so they try to unmake people religious in order to do good. So, in conclusion, I think that your post is wishful thinking. But again, I'd be happy just to shut up about it one way or another.

Although it does make for some good, heated and unresolvable debates.

I honestly look forward to these posts, that have actually nothing to say.

It's perverse, I know.

actually, i kinda did say something.

for the record i'm still waiting for someone to quote my family guy reference.

Man. Look. First off, I am not religious, but I don't really care if you are, or you aren't. (Pretty much the same way I feel about straight edge, but that's another story) The one problem I really have is if you try to shove your opinions down my throat. It doesn't matter if they are pro religious or anti religious. I really just don't care. So please, shut up. I don't want to hear it.
You don't have to read the forums if you don't want to read religious argumentation, but what if other people care, does your lack of caring mean everyone has no right to speak?
There are so many religious posts that go something like "Proof the Bible is fake" or "Jesus wasn't real!." or whatever. Look, I'm not Christian, but seriously. What is the point of just trashing on what someone beleives. YOU ALREADY DON'T BELEIVE IN GOD, WHY MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT HOW YOU ARE RIGHT. YOU ALREADY KNOW IN YOUR HEAD THAT YOU ARE RIGHT, THERE'S NO POINT IN RANTING ABOUT IT AND TRASHING ON RELIGIOUS POEPLE. I'm not religious, but what's the point. Are you just trying to spite religious people? Shut up. Get over yourself. Think what you want, but don't force other people into it. Same goes for religious people. Look dude, you beleive in God, good for you. It's good to have something to beleive in. (I personally beleive in myself.) But, don't shove your beleifs down someones throat. You already have faith in God, you KNOW he is real. Why do you need to prove it. You know the truth.
I know the truth, which is precisely why I tell people what it is whenever I can without turning things into a stupid argument on purpose which ends up serving nothing, since the truth commands us to minister the gospel. Otherwise, Christianity would be horribly selfish and lacking in all empathy and fairness, and ultimately would make Jesus's sacrifice worthless, as only a couple thousand people who heard Jesus first-hand would get to go to heaven anyway unless they broke the rules and spread the gospel. Everyone else would get Hell. This is unnaceptable, from a Christian viewpoint and an honest wordly one too I would imagine.
And what really grinds my gears is all the dumb religious/ anti-religious scientists who are spending all this money to prove the shroud of turin is real or not real. Why can't we just spend on money on something worthwhile?

Thanks. I'm sure the responses I will get won't please me, but I'll tell you something. It feels good to rant. very good. It makes me purr like a walrus.
Walrus purr? :/

Man. Look. First off, I am not religious, but I don't really care if you are, or you aren't. (Pretty much the same way I feel about straight edge, but that's another story) The one problem I really have is if you try to shove your opinions down my throat. It doesn't matter if they are pro religious or anti religious. I really just don't care. So please, shut up. I don't want to hear it.

There are so many religious posts that go something like "Proof the Bible is fake" or "Jesus wasn't real!." or whatever. Look, I'm not Christian, but seriously. What is the point of just trashing on what someone beleives. YOU ALREADY DON'T BELEIVE IN GOD, WHY MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT HOW YOU ARE RIGHT. YOU ALREADY KNOW IN YOUR HEAD THAT YOU ARE RIGHT, THERE'S NO POINT IN RANTING ABOUT IT AND TRASHING ON RELIGIOUS POEPLE. I'm not religious, but what's the point. Are you just trying to spite religious people? Shut up. Get over yourself. Think what you want, but don't force other people into it. Same goes for religious people. Look dude, you beleive in God, good for you. It's good to have something to beleive in. (I personally beleive in myself.) But, don't shove your beleifs down someones throat. You already have faith in God, you KNOW he is real. Why do you need to prove it. You know the truth.

And what really grinds my gears is all the dumb religious/ anti-religious scientists who are spending all this money to prove the shroud of turin is real or not real. Why can't we just spend on money on something worthwhile?

Thanks. I'm sure the responses I will get won't please me, but I'll tell you something. It feels good to rant. very good. It makes me purr like a walrus. WoooOooOOooOoooooOOOoo.:rolleyes:
I totally understand about the straight edge.

Watch the Lion King movie, the one from Disney (yes, I know, they are "evil", but you have put up with that to get this).

Right from the opening theme song, you get a glimpse of "something more than can ever be found" in reality. It's all about the "us".

Coo-coo-ca-choo!

You don't have to read the forums if you don't want to read religious argumentation, but what if other people care, does your lack of caring mean everyone has no right to speak?

I know the truth, which is precisely why I tell people what it is whenever I can without turning things into a stupid argument on purpose which ends up serving nothing, since the truth commands us to minister the gospel. Otherwise, Christianity would be horribly selfish and lacking in all empathy and fairness, and ultimately would make Jesus's sacrifice worthless, as only a couple thousand people who heard Jesus first-hand would get to go to heaven anyway unless they broke the rules and spread the gospel. Everyone else would get Hell. This is unnaceptable, from a Christian viewpoint and an honest wordly one too I would imagine.


Walrus purr? :/

1. People shouldn't care if the "shroud of turin" is real or not and all that other stuff. look. if you're religious, some anti-religious thing isn't gonna make you change your mind. and vice versa. there is really no point to saying the other side is wrong. that is the basic thing i am saying.

2. "Christianity would be horribly selfish and lacking in all emapthy and fairness..." Heh... I'm pretty sure Christianity proved it's selfishness 1000 years ago with the Crusades. Honestly, I beleive Jesus was real, and regardless of whether he was God's son, he was a good dude. I think if God doesn't let you into heaven because you don't beleive in him God would be pretty lame. Spreading the gospel should be less about some book and more about being good to other people and being respectful.

3. Kid, you're sheltered.

for the record i'm still waiting for someone to quote my family guy reference.
Yeah yeah the grinds my gears thing was over-done even in the movie

I totally understand about the straight edge.

Watch the Lion King movie, the one from Disney (yes, I know, they are "evil", but you have put up with that to get this).

Right from the opening theme song, you get a glimpse of "something more than can ever be found" in reality. It's all about the "us".

Coo-coo-ca-choo!

Wait. The straight edge thing, I AM straight edge. Idk if you realized that or I made that clear. But, I meant that I don't care if you are or aren't, I just am.

Lion King was great, but I'm afraid I'm not sure what you're talking about.:confused:

Yeah yeah the grinds my gears thing was over-done even in the movie

lol oooh. that wasn't the reference I meant. but good job. and yes, it was. ahahaha. it pissed me off after a while. the funniest thing was definately the wacky wiggly arm things. "RAISE THE ROOF!!!" "MAKE A GREAT IMPRESSION DURING A PRESENTATION" or whatever they say. ahahah

My sentiments exactly. Me being Italian, i'm Roman Catholic 4 life bizzle, so i don't like to hear people saying my religion isn't real.
GOD CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH! JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD WHO DIED FOR US ON THE CROSS!
and if you think otherwise, i don't wanna hear it, cause that's the way it went :cool:

Wait. The straight edge thing, I AM straight edge. Idk if you realized that or I made that clear. But, I meant that I don't care if you are or aren't, I just am.

Lion King was great, but I'm afraid I'm not sure what you're talking about.:confused:
Golly gee willigers! You're straight, and that's a wonderful thing.

That has nothing to do with the movie. :D

It's about the Circle of Life, a religion that the movie puts forth.

My sentiments exactly. Me being Italian, i'm Roman Catholic 4 life bizzle, so i don't like to hear people saying my religion isn't real.
GOD CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH! JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD WHO DIED FOR US ON THE CROSS!
and if you think otherwise, i don't wanna hear it, cause that's the way it went :cool:

by using the world "bizzle" you effectively made yourself amazingly amazing. ahahaha. good job.

by using the world "bizzle" you effectively made yourself amazingly amazing. ahahaha. good job.
ack! I must remember to use that word.

Golly gee willigers! You're straight, and that's a wonderful thing.

That has nothing to do with the movie. :D

It's about the Circle of Life, a religion that the movie puts forth.

ahahaha oh yes. are you? a couple months back when i posted a thread on straight edge i'm pretty sure i got only negative responses ahahahaha.


aaaaaah, i get you. (heavily exaggerated wink)

ahahaha oh yes. are you? a couple months back when i posted a thread on straight edge i'm pretty sure i got only negative responses ahahahaha.


aaaaaah, i get you. (heavily exaggerated wink)
LOL!!
you're sweet. :)

lol oooh. that wasn't the reference I meant. but good job. and yes, it was. ahahaha. it pissed me off after a while. the funniest thing was definately the wacky wiggly arm things. "RAISE THE ROOF!!!" "MAKE A GREAT IMPRESSION DURING A PRESENTATION" or whatever they say. ahahah
Wacky waving inflatible arm tube men lol yup thoes deffinatly were quality "Testify in church" :)

Wait!....

There was a Family Guy movie?

I feel deprived (or something).

I'm pretty sure that the reason religion is discussed so vehemously (ooohhhh vocab word) on here is because it's fun. At least, I think it is. It's a good topic of debate because there are so many sides to it. It makes things interesting. Of course, when people start flaming, well... That's a different story. That is a problem with religious debates though, they can break down quickly if not controlled. With no absolute proof with anything, it's a great mental excersise to debate.

Wacky waving inflatible arm tube men lol yup thoes deffinatly were quality "Testify in church" :)

lmao. omg. you're amazing. ahahahaha time for a myspace bulliten!!!! ahahaha, i'm so uncool.

I'm pretty sure that the reason religion is discussed so vehemously (ooohhhh vocab word) on here is because it's fun. At least, I think it is. It's a good topic of debate because there are so many sides to it. It makes things interesting. Of course, when people start flaming, well... That's a different story. That is a problem with religious debates though, they can break down quickly if not controlled. With no absolute proof with anything, it's a great mental excersise to debate.
Damn right, it is! :)

It's fun to hear what other people believe, especially those beliefs that contrast with my own.

Wait!....

There was a Family Guy movie?

I feel deprived (or something).

ahaha, yeah, the stewie griffen movie. aside from some funny parts, it's just okay. but those funny parts are amazing. ahahaa

and ahaha, i'm sweet. awwwwwww haahhahahaha.

ahaha, yeah, the stewie griffen movie. aside from some funny parts, it's just okay. but those funny parts are amazing. ahahaa

and ahaha, i'm sweet. awwwwwww haahhahahaha.
Griffen.. Did you ever see 'American Werewolf in London'? *grin*

It's fun to hear what other people believe, especially those beliefs that contrast with my own.

Ya, that's one thing our Medieval counterparts lacked, a world opinion, they debated amongst themselves(all over the world, i.e. not only Europe) without the ability to accept the views of others outside of their own religion. Like, yes Europe, how if some Roman Catholics wanted to debate a bit of teaching, they couldn't get the input of any Protestants 'cause if they saw one, they'd be immediately shot. (The Protestant not the Catholic;) ) It's also alot more fun to have opposite views on a subject, 'cause it makes the debate even more... more.

Griffen.. Did you ever see 'American Werewolf in London'? *grin*
griffen shmiffen. no, i did not. ahahaha... i think i probably saw something about it on i love the 90s though. ahahaha. it was definately on vh1 at one point, i know that.

Ya, that's one thing our Medieval counterparts lacked, a world opinion, they debated amongst themselves(all over the world, i.e. not only Europe) without the ability to accept the views of others outside of their own religion. Like, yes Europe, how if some Roman Catholics wanted to debate a bit of teaching, they couldn't get the input of any Protestants 'cause if they saw one, they'd be immediately shot. (The Protestant not the Catholic;) ) It's also alot more fun to have opposite views on a subject, 'cause it makes the debate even more... more.

i'm learning how to argue like a pro in my english class. =) its fun. but i find i get too emotional, so i'm not a good arguer. however, i'd be a great demogogue. :D

griffen shmiffen. no, i did not. ahahaha... i think i probably saw something about it on i love the 90s though. ahahaha. it was definately on vh1 at one point, i know that.
Go me! I'm so old... ;)

I'm agnostic. Give me proof one way or the other or leave me alone. I'm with Ham-o

Ya, that's one thing our Medieval counterparts lacked, a world opinion, they debated amongst themselves(all over the world, i.e. not only Europe) without the ability to accept the views of others outside of their own religion. Like, yes Europe, how if some Roman Catholics wanted to debate a bit of teaching, they couldn't get the input of any Protestants 'cause if they saw one, they'd be immediately shot. (The Protestant not the Catholic;) ) It's also alot more fun to have opposite views on a subject, 'cause it makes the debate even more... more.
Wow! a cool biased opinion. Thanks!

GOD CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH! JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD WHO DIED FOR US ON THE CROSS!
and if you think otherwise, i don't wanna hear it, cause that's the way it went :cool:

So you can scream it at us, but you won't let us do it back at ya?

Did you miss the part about doing unto others etc etc?

I'm agnostic. Give me proof one way or the other or leave me alone. I'm with Ham-o

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i don't want proof. i just want to listen to gorilla biscuits allllll day!!!!! FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED!!! BE OPEN HEARTED! DON'T BE RETARDED!!! JUST FINISH WHAT YOU STARTEEEED!!!!

So you can scream it at us, but you won't let us do it back at ya?

Did you miss the part about doing unto others etc etc?

i think he was screaming at himself. feel free to say I DON'T BELEIVE IN GOD, AND THAT'S FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i don't want proof. i just want to listen to gorilla biscuits allllll day!!!!! FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED!!! BE OPEN HEARTED! DON'T BE RETARDED!!! JUST FINISH WHAT YOU STARTEEEED!!!!
Mmmmm... biscuits...

My sentiments exactly. Me being Italian, i'm Roman Catholic 4 life bizzle, so i don't like to hear people saying my religion isn't real.
GOD CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH! JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD WHO DIED FOR US ON THE CROSS!
and if you think otherwise, i don't wanna hear it, cause that's the way it went :cool:
Nope ... not to us pastafarians

i think he was screaming at himself. feel free to say I DON'T BELEIVE IN GOD, AND THAT'S FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh I believe in God. I'm Muslim.

Though you'll never hear me say that what I believe is the absolute truth for all humanity. Just what's right for me. It would be rude and presumptuous of me to preach ... just as it is rude and presumptuous of anyone else to do so.

It occured to me, today, in contemplation, that Jesus didn't really die for our sins.

He died for God's opinion of our sins.

Oh wait.... that's rude and presumptuous... don't mind me.

Oh I believe in God. I'm Muslim.

Though you'll never hear me say that what I believe is the absolute truth for all humanity. Just what's right for me. It would be rude and presumptuous of me to preach ... just as it is rude and presumptuous of anyone else to do so.

agreed

It occured to me, today, in contemplation, that Jesus didn't really die for our sins.

He died for God's opinion of our sins.

Oh wait.... that's rude and presumptuous... don't mind me.
Agreed he died for a fufillment of god opinion of forgiveness not for our sins

If god wished no one would have had to die but we still would have been forgiven

(if thats what you are getting at ... if not disregard)

It occured to me, today, in contemplation, that Jesus didn't really die for our sins.

He died for God's opinion of our sins.

Oh wait.... that's rude and presumptuous... don't mind me.

lol, but god is infalliable. so, his opinion of our sins are indeed our sins.
jesus died being a nice guy, and whether he was the son of god, he was a good guy. i think that much everyone should be able to agree on.

lol, but god is infalliable. so, his opinion of our sins are indeed our sins.
jesus died being a nice guy, and whether he was the son of god, he was a good guy. i think that much everyone should be able to agree on.
For the record (if anyone is keeping *looks at UpwardThrust*) I think Jesus was a very nice guy.

/me covers her ass.

For the record (if anyone is keeping *looks at UpwardThrust*) I think Jesus was a very nice guy.

/me covers her ass.
Lol I managed to let firefox loose most of the Good arguements

I am starting again but it is slow going :) feel free to keep pointing them out ... I am not doing the bookmark thing instead actual recording of the URL's and coppies of the arguement

It wont be lost again lol

It wont be lost again lol
Hallelullah!

I think it's funny that despite being a Christian I'm much more likely to be offended by a pro-religion argument anywhere I go. I mean, there are anti-religious assholes out there, but that seems less likely than a religious asshole.

Attacking another person's viewpoint won't win you any converts. Push someone and they'll just push back.

1. People shouldn't care if the "shroud of turin" is real or not and all that other stuff. look. if you're religious, some anti-religious thing isn't gonna make you change your mind. and vice versa. there is really no point to saying the other side is wrong. that is the basic thing i am saying.

2. "Christianity would be horribly selfish and lacking in all emapthy and fairness..." Heh... I'm pretty sure Christianity proved it's selfishness 1000 years ago with the Crusades. Honestly, I beleive Jesus was real, and regardless of whether he was God's son, he was a good dude. I think if God doesn't let you into heaven because you don't beleive in him God would be pretty lame. Spreading the gospel should be less about some book and more about being good to other people and being respectful.

3. Kid, you're sheltered.

1. Honestly, I myself haven't posted in every thread that has to do with religion, because often times it is indeed over some petty argument, and really can't be easily turned into a debate over right and wrong, because sometimes that would be very off-topic and wouldn't make any sense at all. Therefore, I post when I know I can do it in a thread that I want to post in, and don't bother myself with all the other's which have nothing I really want to get invoved in.

2. The Crusades, Spanish inqusition, witch trials, Anti-semitisim policies, etc. etc., were not backed up by anything other than an extremely out-of-context or perhaps not even any context at all version of Biblical interpretation. Almost all the problems which the church often tackled in very poor manners could of been solved with simple, effective evangelism, the kind of stuff you found in the Bible with Jesus preaching. but whenever the Church did do something crazy, it almost never involved a real look at the Bible.

3. I just thought walrus barked :/

1. People shouldn't care if the "shroud of turin" is real or not and all that other stuff.
Who are you to say they shouldn't? You're not shoving your opinion of its importance down other people's throats, by any chance, are you? :)

look. if you're religious, some anti-religious thing isn't gonna make you change your mind. and vice versa. there is really no point to saying the other side is wrong. that is the basic thing i am saying.
That's untrue - people who are prepared to listen and engage in civilized argument do sometimes change their minds. If they didn't, we'd still be living in the intellectual stone age. I've personally changed the minds of a number of people on religious issues, not by evangelizing but by considered discussion over a period of time. My own views have also developed over time as a result of what I discuss and read.

Honestly, I beleive Jesus was real, and regardless of whether he was God's son, he was a good dude.
I think this demonstrates the problem with religious culture and propaganda. The primary evidence for Jesus's existence and character is non-existant, the secondary evidence is inconclusive, and yet, because of the weight of religious tradition and the idea that a long-standing religious belief must have some factual merit, even non-believers are prepared to give a credence to religious figures which they would not give to other historical characters based on similar evidence. Because of its emotional and cultural influence, religious belief undermines critical thought, and that is bad for us all.

YOU ALREADY DON'T BELEIVE IN GOD, WHY MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT HOW YOU ARE RIGHT. YOU ALREADY KNOW IN YOUR HEAD THAT YOU ARE RIGHT, THERE'S NO POINT IN RANTING ABOUT IT AND TRASHING ON RELIGIOUS POEPLE. Shut up. Get over yourself. Think what you want, but don't force other people into it. Same goes for religious people. Look dude, you beleive in God, good for you. It's good to have something to beleive in. But, don't shove your beleifs down someones throat. You already have faith in God, you KNOW he is real. Why do you need to prove it. You know the truth.


Standing ovation!!!!!!:D

Standing ovation!!!!!!:D
yaaaaaaaaaaay someone likes me!!!!!!! :) :cool:

Who are you to say they shouldn't? You're not shoving your opinion of its importance down other people's throats, by any chance, are you? :)


That's untrue - people who are prepared to listen and engage in civilized argument do sometimes change their minds. If they didn't, we'd still be living in the intellectual stone age. I've personally changed the minds of a number of people on religious issues, not by evangelizing but by considered discussion over a period of time. My own views have also developed over time as a result of what I discuss and read.


I think this demonstrates the problem with religious culture and propaganda. The primary evidence for Jesus's existence and character is non-existant, the secondary evidence is inconclusive, and yet, because of the weight of religious tradition and the idea that a long-standing religious belief must have some factual merit, even non-believers are prepared to give a credence to religious figures which they would not give to other historical characters based on similar evidence. Because of its emotional and cultural influence, religious belief undermines critical thought, and that is bad for us all.

1. in my book, that stuff is common sense. and yes, everyone SHOULD have common sense. ahahaha. but whatever, i guess if you want to do that... it's your choice. whatever.

2. i see your point. i suppose my beleifs have been influenced by others. however, i don't thinking insulting or trying to disprove someone elses beleifs is good. the way you should win people is describing your beleifs, not criticising someone elses.

3. er? i don't see how thinking some guy was alive is bad. it's not like i'm saying he was god. i'm saying, look, hey, in my opinion he lived, and he was a good guy. some wack could say george washing was never alive too.

2. The Crusades, Spanish inqusition, witch trials, Anti-semitisim policies, etc. etc., were not backed up by anything other than an extremely out-of-context or perhaps not even any context at all version of Biblical interpretation. Almost all the problems which the church often tackled in very poor manners could of been solved with simple, effective evangelism, the kind of stuff you found in the Bible with Jesus preaching. but whenever the Church did do something crazy, it almost never involved a real look at the Bible.[/QUOTE]

i didn't say the bible was not good. i said christianity has been selfish. i'm talking about the people. not the book that, with my limited knowledge on the subject, i think is probably a source of some good.

2. i see your point. i suppose my beleifs have been influenced by others. however, i don't thinking insulting or trying to disprove someone elses beleifs is good. the way you should win people is describing your beleifs, not criticising someone elses.
Constructive criticism or falsification of ideas and hypotheses is an essential part of proving or convincing someone that an alternative is correct : it is the basis of scientific method, for example. I absolutely agree that it should not be insulting, though : the argument should address the issue, not the person (and should be taken in the same way).

If, say, someone believes that woman are inherently inferior to men, and that belief leads them to treat women badly or deny them their potential, then is it wrong to criticise that belief, and to attempt to show that it is incorrect? I don't think so, and the same principle applies to any belief, religious or otherwise. In my view, religious beliefs in a diety and in the various doctrines of revealed religions are not only wrong (which is enough justification in itself to argue against them) but also damaging at many levels, so of course I should be entitled to criticise them, rationally and civilly without any personal animosity towards those who disagree.

3. er? i don't see how thinking some guy was alive is bad. it's not like i'm saying he was god. i'm saying, look, hey, in my opinion he lived, and he was a good guy.
It's not "bad" to think that the Moon is made of cheese, either, but the evidence doesn't support it, and therefore it's fair to argue against it.

But in my view, it is bad to have a mindset which is prepared to set aside the need for sufficient evidence, logic and critical thinking in favour of believing what it's nice to believe, or what others want you to believe for their own purposes.

some wack could say george washing was never alive too.
Yep, and that is wacky! Believing with certainty that Jesus lived isn't quite so wacky, because the evidence against it isn't so clear cut, but it's a milder version of the same thing.

I'm pretty sure that the reason religion is discussed so vehemously (ooohhhh vocab word) on here is because it's fun.

I prefer "vehemently", but I imagine common usage varies.

If opinions and views (at least public and emphatic ones) did not have a tendency to influence public norms (including enforceable ones, like laws), I would have no problem ignoring or selectively addressing the beliefs of any and all. But where I live, a faction of the religious population continuously try to press their beliefs into law.

By responding, some of us see public discourse as a countermeasure, lest everybody go along with the fundamentalists because nobody spoke up. Sadly, there are people who vote on just what they hear, so we try to make sure they hear from both sides. Symmetrically, this gives the religious folks an impetus to present their views (albeit I still don't think they should enforce those views via law).