NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/20/AR2006012001834_pf.html

Looks like America and its actions aren't the hot political issue that the Liberals had hoped it would be. Maybe the typical Canadian voter actually wants to hear about Canadian solutions to Canadian problems - not how much Bush sucks.

BURLINGTON, Canada -- Rob Hlohinec, 58, doesn't see what's so bad about Americans. He even admits to knowing some.

"I've talked to Americans. They want the same things we want," Hlohinec said as he watched a Conservative Party campaign rally in this Ontario town last week.

At his side, Irene Heller, 82, agreed. She said that was one reason she would vote to replace the government headed by the Liberal Party's Paul Martin in Canadian national elections on Monday. Martin, she said, uses anti-Americanism to try to win votes.

"He gets votes when he knocks America, and I don't approve of that," said Heller, who braved a sleet storm to attend the rally.

Heller's and Hlohinec's candidate, Conservative leader Stephen Harper, holds a strong lead in public opinion polls, fueled largely by dissatisfaction with 12 years of Liberal rule. Among the dissatisfied are voters unhappy with the growing divide between Canada and the United States.

Polls show a deep antipathy among Canadians toward the Bush administration, made more acute by the invasion and occupation of Iraq. That has carried over to a more general anti-Americanism, and academics here have made a cottage industry of talking about the divergence of values between Canadians and Americans.

Martin sought to corral that sentiment by portraying Harper as dangerously pro-American. But the strategy appeared to backfire in this campaign, exacerbating his slide in the polls.

Anti-Americanism is so expensive these days. The brand names are outrageously high, so I'm stuck with the Lithuanian brand. It's not even worth the money. :mad:

It isn't selling in Germany, either. Didn't they just elect a president that campaigned on better relations with the U.S.? I think the rest of the world is coming around to the idea that we're mostly okay and usually right.

Who would've thought...people actually vote on the issues at times.

Maybe there's hope for democracy yet.

Good on Canadians. http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

It isn't selling in Germany, either.
It sorta did in 2003.
That, and a Chancellor in Rubber Boots.

Didn't they just elect a president that campaigned on better relations with the U.S.?
Well, to be honest, she was mainly campaigning on the economy. People just kinda tolerated her stance on the States. And she didn't really win the elections either in the end. It's complicated sometimes what makes people tick in Germany...:confused:
But she's already made a bit of a name for herself with that German guy the CIA kidnapped and saying Gitmo is bullshit.

I think the rest of the world is coming around to the idea that we're mostly okay and usually right.
Don't push your luck, mate. :p

This is also taken from a paper that endorsed the Conservatives and portrayed Harper as pro-American and pro-Iraq War. So, I doubt they'd listen to those who oppose a Conservative minority or majority.

This is also taken from a paper that endorsed the Conservatives and portrayed Harper as pro-American and pro-Iraq War. So, I doubt they'd listen to those who oppose a Conservative minority or majority.
It's from the Washington Post. A paper that's hardly friendly to Republicans in the US, hardly pro-Iraq War, and very definitely not pro-Canadian Conservative.

It isn't selling in Germany, either. Didn't they just elect a president that campaigned on better relations with the U.S.? I think the rest of the world is coming around to the idea that we're mostly okay and usually right.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but I can assure you that neither the German nor the Irish public think so.
And Mrs Merkel was very careful indeed to keep the relations to America out of her election campaign, as she remembered all to well the public's reaction when she had showed enthusiastic support for the Iraq invasion before the begining of the war. And she still only managed to get a little over 30% of the votes...

I think liberals are over represented.

And I blame the internet. Makes 'em think their normal. ;)

I think the rest of the world is coming around to the idea that we're mostly okay and usually right.

usually? see "always".

Negative campaigning is a piss off anyways.

The conservatives were running negative ads before the liberals and once the liberals started in on them, they helped making my decision to vote for the NDP that much easier.

I think liberals are over represented.

And I blame the internet. Makes 'em think their normal. ;)
That is the most intelligent explanation for Liberalism I've ever heard!

*hands 5iam a box of cookies*

usually? see "always".
I wonder whether this could count as flamebait on NS...

That is the most intelligent explanation for Liberalism I've ever heard!
Which type of Liberalism?

US-ian, Canadian, Classical?

usually? see "always".

How Amusing.

I wonder whether this could count as flamebait on NS...


Which type of Liberalism?

US-ian, Canadian, Classical?
Oh Christ! ANOTHER stupid USian reference? I thought it was a random occurence last time I saw it. Are you serious?

Oh Christ! ANOTHER stupid USian reference? I thought it was a random occurence last time I saw it. Are you serious?

Most of the time you see it, in fact somewhere near 80% and up, they really do mean US-ian. Not a joke or anything. Just a handy way of recognizing that there are other American countries and peoples.

Most of the time you see it, in fact somewhere near 80% and up, they really do mean US-ian. Not a joke or anything. Just a handy way of recognizing that there are other American countries and peoples.
Indeed. Is there a better way to mean people from the United States, particular when you are contrasting to Canadians?

Oh Christ! ANOTHER stupid USian reference? I thought it was a random occurence last time I saw it. Are you serious?

Yeah. You've pinched the name of a whole damn continent. Give it back damn you!

It isn't selling in Germany, either. Didn't they just elect a president that campaigned on better relations with the U.S.? I think the rest of the world is coming around to the idea that we're mostly okay and usually right.

One can only hope. However this does seem to be a good sign and as with Merkels elections in Germany, I am backing this candidate 110%.

Indeed. Is there a better way to mean people from the United States, particular when you are contrasting to Canadians?

Yes. No one in their right mind thinks your refering to Canadians or Mexicans when your talking about "Americans". Jeez, come on. I thought this whole "Usian" thing was just a phase a bunch of Euros that were pissed at Americans were going through.

Yes. No one in their right mind thinks your refering to Canadians or Mexicans when your talking about "Americans". Jeez, come on. I thought this whole "Usian" thing was just a phase a bunch of Euros that were pissed at Americans were going through.
I use the word "US-ian" instead of "American" just like I use the word "US" instead of "America". I use it also to vary up my vocabulary.

And in this case here, it made sense to explicitly contrast US-Americans (maybe that's a better word still) to Canadians, because the two have a different idea for what "liberal" means.

As for various phases...rest assured that the only one overly sensitive today are those that take offense to being called "US-ian".

I use the word "US-ian" instead of "American" just like I use the word "US" instead of "America". I use it also to vary up my vocabulary.

And in this case here, it made sense to explicitly contrast US-Americans (maybe that's a better word still) to Canadians, because the two have a different idea for what "liberal" means.

As for various phases...rest assured that the only one overly sensitive today are those that take offense to being called "US-ian".

Dude, come on. Lets just get over this. Its so stupid to make up a whole new word for Americans because you dont think we deserve our title. What are we, five? I doubt there is a Canadian on earth who wants to be called an "American" so why do you guys care. We were the first country to use that name for our country, therefore, its ours and it seems that the only people that care, are a couple Euros who dislike America and just want another piece of ammo to use against Americans to piss them off.

Yeah. You've pinched the name of a whole damn continent. Give it back damn you!

no. it's ours now.

"US-ian"? it's just stupid.

Its so stupid to make up a whole new word for Americans because you dont think we deserve our title.
It's a title now? :confused:

Fact is that Canadians are Americans just like I am European. I felt it was necessary to make that differentiation very clear in this case, and so I did. Although I now think "US-American" is a better word than "US-ian".

It's a title now? :confused:

Fact is that Canadians are Americans just like I am European. I felt it was necessary to make that differentiation very clear in this case, and so I did. Although I now think "US-American" is a better word than "US-ian".

Of course its a title, its the title of our country....

Canadians are NOT Americans.

They are...if you really want to get into it, North Americans.

They are...if you really want to get into it, North Americans.
And "North Americans" are Americans, are they not?

So now, let's get back on topic, shall we? I meant Canadians as those in the pink part of this map (http://web.knoxnews.com/silence/archives/jesusland.jpg), and Jesuslanders as in those living in the green part.

And "North Americans" are Americans, are they not?

So now, let's get back on topic, shall we? I meant Canadians as those in the pink part of this map (http://web.knoxnews.com/silence/archives/jesusland.jpg), and Jesuslanders as in those living in the green part.

I personally think that anyone that thinks there is a "Jesusland" is really ignorant in my opinion. Not everyone that lives on the East and West coasts anti-religion. There are many religious people in Washington State where I live. Even ones that call themselves Democrats.

I personally think that anyone that thinks there is a "Jesusland" is really ignorant in my opinion.
:D

I personally think that anyone that thinks there is a "Jesusland" is really ignorant in my opinion. Not everyone that lives on the East and West coasts anti-religion. There are many religious people in Washington State where I live. Even ones that call themselves Democrats.

Also, even though we have some serious wackos in my home state (California), I serously doubt any of them would consider themselves anything BUT an American. And also, if you look at the 2004 election results per county in the each state, you will see that California isnt as democrat as people think it is, its simply the big cities that vote liberal, the millions of people not living in those cities are predominatly conservative, and THEY would object to not being included in your "Jesus Land".

Annnnd I also think that the millions and millions of Jews living in South Florida (my current state) would object very strongly to American and Florida being called "Jesus Land".

And thirdly, dividing up our country on the basis of a general ignorant view of peoples political beleifs is no better than us dividing up Germany into East and West again, because the East Germans were/are communists and the West Germans werent.

[QUOTE=Neu Leonstein]And "North Americans" are Americans, are they not?[QUOTE]

No they are not.

Only the ones that live in the United States of America.

No one in their right mind would call someone living in Costa Rica an American, yet he lives in Central America.

No they are not.

Only the ones that live in the United States of America.
Oh, brother.

Look at a map. You'll see a continent entitled "America" after one of its early explorers, Amerigo Vespucci.

The people who live on this continent are "Americans". They live in various political entities, one of which is called the "United States of America". These people may be "Americans", but their claim to that word is not exclusive, as they are not the only people living on the continent of "America".

It is therefore perfectly acceptable to call any person living on the American continent, whether from Canada or Costa Rica, an "American", although we usually are more specific. I did the same thing here, being specific about the place a person comes from.

It's not anti-americanism. It's anti extreme right-wing republican and neoconservative politics and ideals that's in question.

To say that this isn't selling in Canada is incorrect. If it weren't selling... the Conservatives would be polling 50% to 60% leads. That's pretty much all I have to say about that.

I still believe the liberals will pull off a victory.

It's not anti-americanism. It's anti extreme right-wing republican and neoconservative politics and ideals that's in question.

To say that this isn't selling in Canada is incorrect. If it weren't selling... the Conservatives would be polling 50% to 60% leads. That's pretty much all I have to say about that.

I still believe the liberals will pull off a victory.

Lol so if I went to canada, I'd be labelled a conservative? I think its funny; I don't really like "Liberal," or "Conservative," titles, because it draws too much of a line. For example, I may be pro-abortion, but not gays rights (Not that I'm taking a stance on either of those things, Those are merely examples,). But since I get classified, I'm either all or nothing.

Basically, the liberals don't like me because they think I'm conservative.
And the conservatives don't like me because they think I'm a liberal.

I know, I'll grow my hair long to represent my liberal part, and drive a gas guzzling SUV to represent my conservative part. :p

I know, I'll grow my hair long to represent my liberal part, and drive a gas guzzling SUV to represent my conservative part. :p

A sixty three car pile up on the highway today, as thr driver of a gas guzzling SUV was blinded by hair and crashed into oncoming traffic.

A sixty three car pile up on the highway today, as thr driver of a gas guzzling SUV was blinded by hair and crashed into oncoming traffic.

That sounds too much like a red-neck story to me.

"New reports are coming in saying that the person driving that SUV was actually trying to straighten their hair while driving. Although this has yet to be confirmed..."

Lol so if I went to canada, I'd be labelled a conservative?
Not necessarily. Many american politicians would fit as a Red Tory. Red Tory is more or less the equivalent of a moderate republican. Canada used to have a great tradition of having the conservative party led and stockpiled with red tories. Today it's probably the greatest refuge of neo-conservativism in all of the north america except maybe for the Whitehouse, and the US Department of Defense. Stephen Harper by rebuilding the conservative party has destroyed a great canadian tradition.

Not necessarily. Many american politicians would fit as Red Tory. Red Tory is more or less the equivalent of a moderate republican. Canada used to have a great tradition of having the conservative party led and stockpiled with moderate conservatives. Today it's probably the greatest refuge of neo-conservativism in all of the north america except maybe for the Whitehouse, and the US Department of Defense. Stephen Harper by rebuilding the conservative party has destroyed a great canadian tradition.

Lets go take over somewhere were we can start up our own, better government then.

What ever happened to the moderates?

Lets go take over somewhere were we can start up our own, better government then.

What ever happened to the moderates?
www.Liberal.ca and http://www.democrats.org/

;)

Most of the time you see it, in fact somewhere near 80% and up, they really do mean US-ian. Not a joke or anything. Just a handy way of recognizing that there are other American countries and peoples.
Is there another country that would like to be called Americans? Because last I knew, Canada was happy with Canadian, Brazil was happy with Brazilian, Colomia was happy with Colombian, and so on and so forth.

So are you people just trying to piss Americans off on purpose? I assume you are. :rolleyes:

It isn't selling in Germany, either. Didn't they just elect a president that campaigned on better relations with the U.S.? I think the rest of the world is coming around to the idea that we're mostly okay and usually right.

Or the most powerful country in the world that will shit all over the rest of it, so you may as well get in line for the little chunks of corn that are going to be lodged in it.

www.Liberal.ca and http://www.democrats.org/

;)

I can't speak for the Canadians. But American democrats aren't moderate. They're conservative. The republicans aren't conservative, they're kleptocratic.

And "North Americans" are Americans, are they not?
No they are not.North-Americans are AmericansOnly the ones that live in the United States of America...LOL.. No wonder some dont like US... ians:D :D :p :D No one in their right mind would call someone living in Costa Rica an American, yet he lives in Central America.Costa Ricans are Americans.

I think the rest of the world is coming around to the idea that we're mostly okay and usually right.
Dream on, Poindexter.

academics here have made a cottage industry of talking about the divergence of values between Canadians and America.While in America, politicians and lobbyists have made a true industry of exploiting and exacerbating those differences.

Oh Christ! ANOTHER stupid USian reference? I thought it was a random occurence last time I saw it. Are you serious?
Oh Buddha, not another whingeing USian with an overblown sense of entitlement... luckily I'm far too jaded to assume it's a random occurence.

Anti-Americanism Isn't Selling In Canada

Not sure where you got that idea.. oh right, from an American news paper..lol

Actually "Anti-Americanism" is selling very well in Canada to be honest.

No one is really voting FOR Harper, they are voting AGAINST the Liberals.. and there is a huge difference.

Canadians do not share American core values, we have our own.. and they don't really make for much of a match with the USA.

Canadians do not share American core values, we have our own.. and they don't really make for much of a match with the USA.

I'm a Canadian, and Millions of other Canadians that think and vote just like me call you on that load of BS.

Canadians do not share American core values, we have our own.. and they don't really make for much of a match with the USA.
And those values are?

I certainly do not consider myself anti-Canadian. Significant portion of a given country hating or heavily disliking another country is just as bad as when citizens of a country love their own country. It’s the same kind of shit that starts wars when times get hard and stifles free trade when times are good.

MIB, the whole purpose of the use of "USian" is to piss you off. Get over it.

But for those who use the word "USian", know that the country's name is not the United States, the name of the country is the United States of America. America is the name. It's like calling Iranians Islamic Republicans or IRians.

I'm a Canadian, and Millions of other Canadians that think and vote just like me call you on that load of BS.

Well you're a Scary Conservative with a Hidden Agenda (tm), so you don't count.

Not sure where you got that idea.. oh right, from an American news paper..lol

Actually "Anti-Americanism" is selling very well in Canada to be honest.

No one is really voting FOR Harper, they are voting AGAINST the Liberals.. and there is a huge difference.

Canadians do not share American core values, we have our own.. and they don't really make for much of a match with the USA.

Go ahead. Just don't expect anyone over here to care what you think. Though I suspect we might reciprocate that antipathy if Canada ever did anything that was particularly worthy of attention. As it is, most of us just think you to be that quaint little place where the fishing's good, people like hockey, and they say "eh" after everything.

Is there another country that would like to be called Americans?
Not only is there, but they actually prefer to be called the United States of America -- or Estados Unidos de America, as they call themselves in Mexico. They differentiate us USians (can't say I dislike the shorthand) by calling us Estados Unidos de Norte America.

Furthermore, most of South America prefers to be called Americans, to the point that they get rather peeved over what they consider an artificial split between North and South America -- they think it should be one American continent, and all of us called Americans.

You could claim that Anti-Americanism isn't being bought in the UK because Blair was elected again, but still most people would prefer a more distanced relationship with the US.

Really, you must be pretty arrogant to think that all we think about in the mythical and inferiour land of "unamerica" when it comes to voting our countries leaders is their stance towards the USA. It's really a non-issue. I would PREFER for a candidate to be wary of supporting the country in light of it's recent escapades, but if there was another who I believed had better policies in other regards then of course i'd vote for the latter.

It isn't selling in Germany, either. Didn't they just elect a president that campaigned on better relations with the U.S.? I think the rest of the world is coming around to the idea that we're mostly okay and usually right.

No, not really; people in Germany were pissed that everytime someone would question the economic direction which Schroder was taking the country in, he would turn around and try to counter it by saying, "well, we didn't go to war, now did we!" as if it is some sort of consolation to all those millions of Germans out of work because Schroder was concerned more about pushing his own brand of anti-Americanism.

It also has nothing to do with 'the US is right', its about people pissed off about hearing politicians flog the same horse over and over again - you make your point, that you don't support the US invasion of Iraq, then you move on; it shouldn't be some sort of perpetual back up stratergy to use when ever you've run out of good policies.

The Liberals in Canada seem to suffer from the 'more of the same' complex - they have no new ideas, no new vision for Canada to keep voters interested - now sure, the Conservatives are pretty pedestrian when it comes to theirs, but its a change, and thats what people want.

And just a small thing, it was the German Chancellor, basically the prime minister. The president in Germany is voted in via parliament and the upper house - he pretty much has sweet bugger all powers at his desposal.

I personally think that anyone that thinks there is a "Jesusland" is really ignorant in my opinion. Not everyone that lives on the East and West coasts anti-religion. There are many religious people in Washington State where I live. Even ones that call themselves Democrats.

Yeap, and I'm sure those religious types in those states realise that just because they believe in some particular system, doesn't automatically give them a monopoly on power, morality or any other control freakish aspect of life.

It's good that a party can't use simple-minded hatred of another country in order to get votes for itself. However, it seems that most of the right-wing Americans have no problem with the Republicans bashing France. Hypocrites.

It isn't selling in Germany, either. Didn't they just elect a president that campaigned on better relations with the U.S.? I think the rest of the world is coming around to the idea that we're mostly okay and usually right.
Not really. Merkel is hardly any more pro-American than Schroeder was. She's recently been clashing with Bush on the Guantanamo Bay issue. Additionally, both Schroeder and Merkel had very close percentages of the vote, and neither got a majority.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/20/AR2006012001834_pf.html

Looks like America and its actions aren't the hot political issue that the Liberals had hoped it would be. Maybe the typical Canadian voter actually wants to hear about Canadian solutions to Canadian problems - not how much Bush sucks.


Canada is just a "better" edition of the US, with free health care, and education, and less racism, and a lot less school shootings...

Oh Canada, our home and Native land
True patriot in all thy sons command
with glory harts we se thee rise grow true north strong and free
Oh canada our native land, we stand on guard for thee.:D

At least thats what other ex-jugoslav refugees have told me, refugees that I knew before in Bosnia before they became refugees that is:(
Anyways they say its like the american dream of having a chance at working your way up, and having a good standard of living, only with free health care, and less racism, and less Evangelist looneys..

Thats what they have told me, I have never been there so who know..

mmm

What happened to all those "We don't care what the world thinks" threads? Now americans care of what the world thinks of them?

And I mean, americans are foreign. If americans did not cared that much about US foreign policy when voting for bush, why do americans think we would care for them when electing our leaders? You aren't the center of the world. Hell, you aren't the center of anything. You are.. nothing.

Not only is there, but they actually prefer to be called the United States of America -- or Estados Unidos de America, as they call themselves in Mexico. They differentiate us USians (can't say I dislike the shorthand) by calling us Estados Unidos de Norte America.

Furthermore, most of South America prefers to be called Americans, to the point that they get rather peeved over what they consider an artificial split between North and South America -- they think it should be one American continent, and all of us called Americans.

Thats because they have no pride of their own South American shitholes so they need to latch on to our country anyway they can.

And whats this garbage about Estados Unidos de America.....Its Estados Unidos Mexicanos...look at the CIA world fact book.

Come back when you know what the hell your talking about.

Not sure where you got that idea.. oh right, from an American news paper..lol

Actually "Anti-Americanism" is selling very well in Canada to be honest.

No one is really voting FOR Harper, they are voting AGAINST the Liberals.. and there is a huge difference.

Canadians do not share American core values, we have our own.. and they don't really make for much of a match with the USA.
But it isn't just Harper that is attracting votes. From what a poll in the USA Today indicates, conservatives, or is that Conservatives, are leading the latest popularity contest by a good margin.

Thirty-seven percent of those responding to the SES poll said they would vote for the Conservatives. Support for the Liberals was 30.7%; the far-left New Democratic Party got 16.6%. The Bloc Quebecois, which supports independence for Quebec, got 10.7%; the Green Party, 4.9%.

Now, as I've said time and time again, the only poll that matters is the one on election day, but this does give one cause to think about the mess liberals have made of Canadian government, doesn't it?

It's good that a party can't use simple-minded hatred of another country in order to get votes for itself. However, it seems that most of the right-wing Americans have no problem with the Republicans bashing France. Hypocrites.


Not really. Merkel is hardly any more pro-American than Schroeder was. She's recently been clashing with Bush on the Guantanamo Bay issue. Additionally, both Schroeder and Merkel had very close percentages of the vote, and neither got a majority.

First of all...while we may bash France (and love it) we didnt base our presidential elections on France...and I dont recall if they ever even came up. Its just something we do, but not something we base our campaign or even politics on.

Secondly, Merkel is very more pro-American that Schroeder was. She was for the war in Iraq, promised to repair and make stronger German-American relations, and also is a conservative, who more often than not, side with other conservatives.

Also, unless I'm mistaken she did recieve some sort of majority in the election, but it was a small majority and Schroeder just didnt wanna hand over the chanclership.

Canada is just a "better" edition of the US, with free health care, and education, and less racism, and a lot less school shootings...

Oh Canada, our home and Native land
True patriot in all thy sons command
with glory harts we se thee rise grow true north strong and free
Oh canada our native land, we stand on guard for thee.:D

At least thats what other ex-jugoslav refugees have told me, refugees that I knew before in Bosnia before they became refugees that is:(
Anyways they say its like the american dream of having a chance at working your way up, and having a good standard of living, only with free health care, and less racism, and less Evangelist looneys..

Thats what they have told me, I have never been there so who know..

Hmm....logical arguement. I'm moving to Canada.:rolleyes:

It's good that a party can't use simple-minded hatred of another country in order to get votes for itself. However, it seems that most of the right-wing Americans have no problem with the Republicans bashing France. Hypocrites.

no, you see, the difference is that they're bashing America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, the last superpower, the greatest country in the world. you've probably heard of it.

we're bashing france, land of the crepe-eating-surrendermonkeys and the home of the least predictable "allies" in the world.

Canada is just a "better" edition of the US

what? where did that come from?

Thats what they have told me, I have never been there so who know..

oh... ok. you have no idea what you're talking abour. *whew*. that explains it.


What happened to all those "We don't care what the world thinks" threads? Now americans care of what the world thinks of them?

no, not really. but if you try to take away "american", we get pissed.

You aren't the center of the world. Hell, you aren't the center of anything. You are.. nothing.

hey, where do you live? it doesn't really matter - we've either saved your ass or bombed you ass.

now you sit there in that little hellhole you call a country, and think about what made you so bitter towards a great land

no, you see, the difference is that they're bashing America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, the last superpower, the greatest country in the world. you've probably heard of it.

Yes, its that place where a history of supporting dictators and mass murderers and undermining democracy is no reason not to blabber on about how you're the "light of the freeworld" and gods gift in general.


we're bashing France, land of the crepe-eating-surrendermonkeys and the home of the least predictable "allies" in the world..

Yes, rather more to do with the fact that they have a culture filled with art and philosophy whereas corporate America thrives on the lowest, blandest common denominator.


hey, where do you live? it doesn't really matter - we've either saved your ass or bombed you ass. ..


More likely the latter, these days. And you left out "funded thugs to rape your women and kill the men".

Yes, rather more to do with the fact that they have a culture filled with art and philosophy .

yeah. but it would all be in german if it wasn't for us.

no, you see, the difference is that they're bashing America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, the last superpower, the greatest country in the world. you've probably heard of it.

we're bashing france, land of the crepe-eating-surrendermonkeys and the home of the least predictable "allies" in the world.


France saved your ass - you couldn't overthrow us on your own, even though we were fighting a war thousands of miles away in a time when transport and communication were primitive and supposedly you have the unwavering loyalty of the population. The French stepped in and freed you.

The rest of your post isn't worth commenting on - you are a product of the underfunded American education system although by the sounds of it even with a brilliant education you'd still be a complete and utter moron. Bet you haven't even left the country, you flag waving buffoon, have you?

France saved your ass - you couldn't overthrow us on your own, even though we were fighting a war thousands of miles away in a time when transport and communication were primitive and supposedly you have the unwavering loyalty of the population. The French stepped in and freed you.


the revulutionary war? that's your defense of the french? we've payed em back.


The rest of your post isn't worth commenting on - you are a product of the underfunded American education system although by the sounds of it even with a brilliant education you'd still be a complete and utter moron. Bet you haven't even left the country, you flag waving buffoon, have you?

wow, and you're obviously so adept at analysis based on peoples' posts. in fact, i have left the US, to go to many places including parts europe and asia, even your little UK, and have lived outside the us for 4 years.

the revulutionary war? that's your defense of the french? we've payed em back.are you talking about WW2?

we entered the War because of Pearl Harbor... not because we wanted to help the French.

the revulutionary war? that's your defense of the french? we've payed em back.

Revolutionary. Hardly unreliable allies if they saved your ass then are they? Just because they refuse to blindly obey the US - on that basis the US are unreliable allies because they didn't go and help France in Algeria.


wow, and you're obviously so adept at analysis based on peoples' posts. in fact, i have left the US, to go to many places including parts europe and asia, even your little UK, and have lived outside the us for 4 years.

And you still maintain the bigoted, ultra nationalist view points that you have? Wow...you're either telling porkie pies or are extremely close minded. Either way, I feel a little sorry for you.

Oh, and i'm proud that a country as small as Britain has achieved so much and produced a disproportionate amount of great people. Mind you, it's a wonder how we ever lasted more than a generation since all brits are gay, right? :D

are you talking about WW2?

we entered the War because of Pearl Harbor... not because we wanted to help the French.

no one really enters a war just to help. there's always some motive.

but we did end up by saving them.

I would like to take the time to show you this link.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=american

It clearly shows that inhabitants of the two continents can be called "American", and inhabitants of the United States of America can be called "American".

Which term you are using is largely dependent upon context, but to avoid ambiguity it is best to always clarify.

If you were wondering, yes I do consider myself American, as an inhabitant of North America, in the country of Canada.

Also, you should not call the USians, because of other countries which are also called "US". For example Mexico, they are somewhat creative, unlike the inhabitants of the United States of America, and chose their name to be the United States of Mexico. If you refer to USians, you could also be referring to the Mexicans.

no one really enters a war just to help. there's always some motive.

but we did end up by saving them.

If anything the war saved the US from the great depression. Sure, Roosevelt was helping, but it was still in a bad way. WW2 both provided employment in weapons factories for anyone who wanted work, and simultaneously devastated the economies of America's competitiors. They could just sit back on the other side of the world, quietly building themselves up, before sending in the fresh army after most of the fighting had actually being done and nuking Japan. Even if America hadn't entered the war, Britain and Russia were never going to be conquered - all it would do is delay it and the first nuke would have being dropped on Berlin by the British.

Trying to claim credit for a war which was chiefly won by the British and Russians is pretty amusing though - continue your delusions.

If anything the war saved the US from the great depression. Sure, Roosevelt was helping, but it was still in a bad way. WW2 both provided employment in weapons factories for anyone who wanted work, and simultaneously devastated the economies of America's competitiors.

what, it's bad to profit from a war? hah!

Even if America hadn't entered the war, Britain and Russia were never going to be conquered - all it would do is delay it and the first nuke would have being dropped on Berlin by the British.

there's a laugh. the uk was having the shit bombed out of them by the germans. they would have been conquered very soon - especially if the us really wasn't helping and cut off supplies.

if anything, the russians would have made the first nuke, if not the us. they didi do it second, you might remember.

but we did end up by saving them.they were "on the way" to Berlin..

most british friends who accept to talk about it.. say that most US actions (or inactions) in WW2 were very selfish...
Discalimer: So where all other Countries. IMHO

they were "on the way" to Berlin..

most british friends who accept to talk about it.. say that most US actions (or inactions) in WW2 were very selfish...
Discalimer: So where all other Countries. IMHO

Damn straight they were. We may have needed you but we're still paying off the loans we had to use to get you to help. We don't owe you any favours over it and neither do France.

they were "on the way" to Berlin..


look. if we can agree on one thing here, it's that france is unimportant.

there's a laugh. the uk was having the shit bombed out of them by the germans. they would have been conquered very soon - especially if the us really wasn't helping and cut off supplies.

if anything, the russians would have made the first nuke, if not the us. they didi do it second, you might remember.

The russians used espionage on the USA to develop their nuke.

Uk beat the battle of Britain.
Up until the wait for DDay there werent many major fights.

And as a side note, the only country that succesfully accomplished all of their missions on DDay for taking a beach was Canada.

Secondly, Merkel is very more pro-American that Schroeder was. She was for the war in Iraq, promised to repair and make stronger German-American relations
Most Germans remain against the war in Iraq. Schroeder thought that he could exploit that when he had run out of good policies to attract voters. Fortunately that didn't work for him.

Merkel isn't much of a conservative anyway, if it's relevant at all. She's a little bit to the left of the Democrats.

Also, unless I'm mistaken she did recieve some sort of majority in the election, but it was a small majority and Schroeder just didnt wanna hand over the chanclership.
No, I think Merkel's party got 37% and Schroeder's got about 36%.

Thats because they have no pride of their own South American shitholes so they need to latch on to our country anyway they can.

And whats this garbage about Estados Unidos de America.....Its Estados Unidos Mexicanos...look at the CIA world fact book.
What a xenophobic, ignorant hick!

Hmm....logical arguement. I'm moving to Canada.
It's as much based on mindless nationalism as your arguments.

no, you see, the difference is that they're bashing America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, the last superpower, the greatest country in the world. you've probably heard of it.

we're bashing france, land of the crepe-eating-surrendermonkeys and the home of the least predictable "allies" in the world.
Do you actually say things like this with a straight face? Rest assured that France is equally full of brainless flag-wavers.

look. if we can agree on one thing here, it's that france is unimportant.
How do you quantify importance? Or is this just another piece of nationalist dick-waving on your part?

The problem is France is that they bitch about the USA being corporate whores, and says the war in Iraq was simply about oil, when France was making shitloads of money selling weapons to Iraq.

no. it's ours now.

"US-ian"? it's just stupid.

How about Yooessian?

Perhaps the whole continent should just be renamed in honour of its discoverer? Columbia is taken, but what about Leifia, or Leifhepnia? Then the people could be called Leifians or Leifhepnians. Or maybe it would probably be more accurate to name the continent Someeasternsiberianblokia and the people Someeasternsiberianblokians?

Without getting involved in the argument, a quick correction on historical fact...

The first atomic bomb was based in no small measure on the British project. When America finally joined the war, all the expertise from Britain, plus all those physicists who escaped Occupied Europe, were sent to get the Manhattan Project going.

What is more the German project was set back beyond hope of completion by... guess who... the British.

Before I defend my own nation too vigorously, let's look at the Russians. Of 400 German Army divisions, the Russians drove back 360 of them. The USA, UK, etc, faced a whole 40. So the Russians, being fair, really won the war. We just ripped the heart out of the German cities and industrial centres.

And German bombing reached its peak over the UK before the USA joined the war. So 'they would have bombed the shit out of you...' ... Nah mate.

Just to clarify...I have nothing against the US of A. I have nothing against the inhabitants of the US of A, whatever they choose to call themselves. I choose to take issue with self-aggrandizing rewriting of history by anyone. Frequent culprits are citizens of the United States of America, but I'm happy to have a pop at anyone else doing it as well.

yeah. but it would all be in german if it wasn't for us.

No, though it might have spent a few years re-classed as "Decadent Western thought pollution"


in fact, i have left the US, to go to many places including parts europe and asia, even your little UK, and have lived outside the us for 4 years..

Yet seem to have been made no wiser by the experience, armored as you must have been with flag-waving vitriol and stupid assumptions.

Without getting involved in the argument, a quick correction on historical fact...

The first atomic bomb was based in no small measure on the British project. When America finally joined the war, all the expertise from Britain, plus all those physicists who escaped Occupied Europe, were sent to get the Manhattan Project going.

What is more the German project was set back beyond hope of completion by... guess who... the British.

Before I defend my own nation too vigorously, let's look at the Russians. Of 400 German Army divisions, the Russians drove back 360 of them. The USA, UK, etc, faced a whole 40. So the Russians, being fair, really won the war. We just ripped the heart out of the German cities and industrial centres.

And German bombing reached its peak over the UK before the USA joined the war. So 'they would have bombed the shit out of you...' ... Nah mate.


Indeed - that's what most people forget. Britain did most of the preliminary work of the A bomb, and sent the US the research on the basis that they would share the technology after it had being built. Of course, the US didn't follow through with their share of the bargain - sub human foreigners don't deserve to be treated with respect and honesty, right?

After the Battle of Britain, there was no way Germany could invade. They had an inferiour air force and navy. They could have all the troops they wanted, didn't do them any good if they couldn't cross the channel.

It makes me laugh that the US goes around demanding credit for WW2 when they did the least amount of fighting of the allies and mostly just sold stuff to Britain to enable us to help the Russians win. Does that mean that the shop which sells a gun to a guy who shoots a rampaging maniac who has killed dozens already deserves more credit than the guy who fired the bullet?

what, it's bad to profit from a war? hah!
Generally it is.

there's a laugh. the uk was having the shit bombed out of them by the germans. they would have been conquered very soon - especially if the us really wasn't helping and cut off supplies.
No, the UK wasn't going to be conquered, and the US wouldn't have cut off supplies, they were too busy selling arms to both sides in the conflict.

if anything, the russians would have made the first nuke, if not the us. they didi do it second, you might remember.
And if you remember, the whole reason Einstein encouraged the american government to get to work on nuclear bombs was because he was afraid the germans would build them first.

Be fair, the US did win in Asia where us Brits took a right kicking.

But Europe? Or indeed Africa? Not a chance.

look. if we can agree on one thing here, it's that france is unimportant.
France was not unimportant in world war two. The French resistance movement was quite successful in sabotaging the germans, for instance.

Interesting how the French were all 'resistance' after the war. They did some good stuff, but compared with the Yugoslav partisans, for example?

1) I DOUBT when the U.S. came into WWII is the actual issue of this Forum.
2) The British held the idea of splendid isolation for HUNDREDS of years.
-This involves only doing what profits them.
3) Therefore you have no right to criticize America in that aspect.
4) The U.S. Foreign policy sucks. We clearly live in a greedy country. For the most part Americans come off as being arrogant and lacking in understanding of other peoples cultures. Basically we insult them.
5) Do not insult France. There history and culture far surpass America's.
-They have apartment buildings older than our country.
6) Insulting France makes people look like conservative nut jobs. Please have some class.

1) I DOUBT when the U.S. came into WWII is the actual issue of this Forum.
2) The British held the idea of splendid isolation for HUNDREDS of years.
-This involves only doing what profits them.
3) Therefore you have no right to criticize America in that aspect.
4) The U.S. Foreign policy sucks. We clearly live in a greedy country. For the most part Americans come off as being arrogant and lacking in understanding of other peoples cultures. Basically we insult them.
5) Do not insult France. There history and culture far surpass America's.
-They have apartment buildings older than our country.
6) Insulting France makes people look like conservative nut jobs. Please have some class.

Great post Salinth! Hats off to ya!

1) I DOUBT when the U.S. came into WWII is the actual issue of this Forum.
2) The British held the idea of splendid isolation for HUNDREDS of years.
-This involves only doing what profits them.
3) Therefore you have no right to criticize America in that aspect.


I don't criticise America for it's actions during WW2, it's just i'm not going to grovel at peoples feet for supposedly saving me at their demand. America of course did more than a lot of countries that could have done something...Ireland springs to mind...but they didn't do anywhere near as much as Britain and Russia, and so shouldn't go around saying "We saved you damn limeys, hyuck hyuck hyuck"

I reserve the right to diss France. I have liked every French person I have ever met, but 10 centuries of friendly and not so friendly rivalry have made their way into our very blood in England. We still diss the Welsh and we conquered them 800-odd years ago. The time you should worry is if we don't diss a nation, or have never been to war with them. That shows that we really don't care enough about them to have recognised their existence.

Also - splendid isolation. Yes, this was a policy that came of British arrogance at the height of Empire, when there weren't any wars in Europe that interested us. Until 1815 at the very least we were actively involved in preventing any nation dominating the European continent...entirely in our own interests, of course. After that, we were busy with the empire. When you rule 1/4 of the globe, it's forgiveable to be a little self-absorbed. The USA controls most of a continental landmass. It is equally understandable, especially after having their fingers somewhat burned in the First War, they would be disinclined to get involved. Britain felt much the same, and we were a good 3000 miles closer, plus we didn't have a substantial German ethnic minority to worry about.

Looks like America and its actions aren't the hot political issue that the Liberals had hoped it would be. Maybe the typical Canadian voter actually wants to hear about Canadian solutions to Canadian problems - not how much Bush sucks.
Yay!!!

Bully on us!

yeah. but it would all be in german if it wasn't for us.
Da hast du aber ganz schön versagt bei mir, Freundchen.

The problem is France is that they bitch about the USA being corporate whores, and says the war in Iraq was simply about oil, when France was making shitloads of money selling weapons to Iraq.
Actually, I'd think that at the time you're thinking of, the US was doing the exact same thing.
And then, later on, there was an embargo on trading weapons with Iraq, and so France didn't do so.

But we know where that sort of idea comes from, don't we? The liberal media, that's where!
http://mediamatters.org/items/200502240010

I don't criticise America for it's actions during WW2, it's just i'm not going to grovel at peoples feet for supposedly saving me at their demand. America of course did more than a lot of countries that could have done something...Ireland springs to mind...but they didn't do anywhere near as much as Britain and Russia, and so shouldn't go around saying "We saved you damn limeys, hyuck hyuck hyuck"
What could Ireland have done? We were poor, our population was small and our military was a joke in comparison with that of the European powers. If we had sided with the Brits we would have literally been bombed back to the stone age. That said, I think that Dev's message of condolence upon Hitler's death was fucking idiotic.

Also, note that although Britain got bombed more in WW2, America lost more soldiers.

The USA controls most of a continental landmass.

No they dont.

Looks like America and its actions aren't the hot political issue that the Liberals had hoped it would be. Maybe the typical Canadian voter actually wants to hear about Canadian solutions to Canadian problems - not how much Bush sucks.
Finally. :D

No they dont.
I got cho' back!

Not that I've bothered to read the thread or anything, but:

Largest Countries in the World by Square Kilometeres/Miles:
1. Russia
2. Canada
3. China
4. USA

If that's correct. I know the first two are.

I got cho' back!

Not that I've bothered to read the thread or anything, but:

Largest Countries in the World by Square Kilometeres/Miles:
1. Russia
2. Canada
3. China
4. USA

If that's correct. I know the first two are.

Doesn't look as if they were holding the most continental landmass... they're not even among the top 3

Da hast du aber ganz schön versagt bei mir, Freundchen.

Denken Sie, jetzt es ist alles auf englisch wegen Amerikas! :eek:

How did this become a WW2-who-saved-whoms-butt-when thread?

And what, exactly, is "anti-americanism"? Can someone define it for me, please?

Doesn't look as if they were holding the most continental landmass... they're not even among the top 3

Maybe if you include Canada they would be up there?

Maybe if you include Canada they would be up there?
Why the hell would Canada be included in how much territory the U.S. owns?

What could Ireland have done? We were poor, our population was small and our military was a joke in comparison with that of the European powers. If we had sided with the Brits we would have literally been bombed back to the stone age. That said, I think that Dev's message of condolence upon Hitler's death was fucking idiotic.

Also, note that although Britain got bombed more in WW2, America lost more soldiers.

Why would they bother flying all the way to Ireland over places of more major population in Britain?

American and British ships would have being able to use Irish ports as strategic positions and as resupply stations. Even if Ireland didn't send any troops, although some brave individuals did in fact volunteer to go and fight, they still could have done a lot more to help the war effort. In fact the IRA asked for a German invasion and promised support for Hitler in an invasion if they could then take control of a united Ireland.

Why the hell would Canada be included in how much territory the U.S. owns?
It was a piss-take comment

on the different ways that different people look at the same issue

And what, exactly, is "anti-americanism"? Can someone define it for me, please?
It's a strawman used by oversensitive US-Americans when confronted with criticism of their country's values or methods.

hey, where do you live? it doesn't really matter - we've either saved your ass or bombed you ass.

Slight problem with that - following the typical series of events triggered by US foreign policy & interferance:

You "save" the proverbial ass of another, by supporting the party that sucks up to you most/ buys the most weapons.

You then parade around that country/ and the world/ as "liberators" and announce that they owe you everything.

When that party turns against you in some form or another, you go interfering again, to replace the said leadership which will be more favo(u)rable to you during the next decade or so.

So long as you can steal oil, and sell refridgerators/ hollywood movies there you're happy. And yet again parade and congradulate yourselves. [Repeat Cycle]

I'm not anti-american. I'm Anti "United States Of America" 's foreign policy and arrogance. (and it's bullish, brutish behaviour - including that of some of its population - such as many on here).

1) I DOUBT when the U.S. came into WWII is the actual issue of this Forum.
2) The British held the idea of splendid isolation for HUNDREDS of years.
-This involves only doing what profits them.
3) Therefore you have no right to criticize America in that aspect.
4) The U.S. Foreign policy sucks. We clearly live in a greedy country. For the most part Americans come off as being arrogant and lacking in understanding of other peoples cultures. Basically we insult them.
5) Do not insult France. There history and culture far surpass America's.
-They have apartment buildings older than our country.
6) Insulting France makes people look like conservative nut jobs. Please have some class.

*awards you a golden spork"

I especially enjoyed reading:

5) Do not insult France. There history and culture far surpass America's.
-They have apartment buildings older than our country.

If those living in Britain insult the french - its usually for one of 3 reasons:
1) Jeremy Clarkson
2) French Arrogance. Like American Arrogance - but with a cultural background as opposed to hot headedness.
3) It's just a fun thing to do between rivals. The french insult british food. We make fun of everything else. :) Just harmless fun.

Someone should really explain the term" anti-americanism" 'cause is not so clear.
I don't really like the actual Us government, they're the worst Us gov.i've seen in years, they're harvesting hate throughout the world,causing no other effect then pain,...should i be called for that "anti-american"? :)

It's a strawman used by oversensitive US-Americans when confronted with criticism of their country's values or methods.
Nah, it's when people don't seem to realize the difference between the government and the people.

For instance...

Fucking Americans. I hope the whole damn nation burns in hell.
Anti-American (or leads to the quotee spouting worse stuff)

Fucking Bush. Fucking Condi. Fucking Rumsfeld. They're fucking up the world one day at a time.
Good stuff that I happen to agree with.

The line gets blurry a lot. That happens.

I'm from Cinci. Took a road trip to Austria and Germany recently with the BF. Every European we met - every single soul - once we got past the hellos, asked us, "How do you feel about Bush?"

In our case, one of us is very pro-Bush, and the other very anti-Bush, so by the time we got done answering their question, there was a lot of laughing going on.

Most Western Europeans we met were anti-Bush, and the Eastern Europeans pro-Bush.

No one we met seemed to be anti-American in the sense of feeling negative about American people. They just didn't understand our collective political rationale (surprise! we don't have one!) and wanted to hear for themselves what the "real truth" was about how Americans think and feel.

In the circumstances, I'm not sure my BF and I helped matters much. :D Except maybe to illustrate how sweeping statements about Americans are sure to be wrong.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/20/AR2006012001834_pf.html

Looks like America and its actions aren't the hot political issue that the Liberals had hoped it would be. Maybe the typical Canadian voter actually wants to hear about Canadian solutions to Canadian problems - not how much Bush sucks.


As fabulous as the cherrypicked opinions of two people noted in an article might be, I don't think that anyone has ever pretended that this is the primary issue in this election. Nor is it even the primary issue that the Liberals have targetted Harper with.


But it IS an issue to some, and campaigns use all of the ammo at their disposal to sway opinion.

In other words, this is a non-story.

But I'm happy that it gave you the warm fuzzies to know that Canadian's don't in fact hate Americans. Frankly, I think you've been told that enough - even if many people around here haven't been able to wrap their heads around the differences between being Anti-Bush and being Anti-American.

But I'm happy that it gave you the warm fuzzies to know that Canadian's don't in fact hate Americans. Frankly, I think you've been told that enough - even if many people around here haven't been able to wrap their heads around the differences between being Anti-Bush and being Anti-American.

I take comfort in the fact that Chuck Norris is an American.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/jtkwon/ChuckNorris-Motivator.jpg

I take comfort in the fact that Chuck Norris is an American.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/jtkwon/ChuckNorris-Motivator.jpg


Yeah, well, so is Carrot Top....

:p

It isn't selling in Germany, either. Didn't they just elect a president that campaigned on better relations with the U.S.? I think the rest of the world is coming around to the idea that we're mostly okay and usually right.

Allow me to lie down on the floor, and laugh very hard while rolling.

*lies down on floor and begins laughing and rolling*

Unfortunately Eastern Europeans often have an over-rosy view of the US. This will fade with time, however.

Why would they bother flying all the way to Ireland over places of more major population in Britain?

American and British ships would have being able to use Irish ports as strategic positions and as resupply stations. Even if Ireland didn't send any troops, although some brave individuals did in fact volunteer to go and fight, they still could have done a lot more to help the war effort. In fact the IRA asked for a German invasion and promised support for Hitler in an invasion if they could then take control of a united Ireland.

"Some" being approximately 40,000-50,000 from the South fighting in the British armed forces, with unknown numbers of immigrants in the US/Australian/New Zealand forces. Hence 4 VCs for Southern Irish during WW2.

Any IRA support for Germany needs to be seen in the context of a left wing organisation, taking the traditional Irish route to the continent to look to support from Britains enemies. rather than support of either Hitler or his ideology. Many of the most prominent IRA men of the time had actually fought against Franco in Spain for the republic.

Why would they bother flying all the way to Ireland over places of more major population in Britain?
They bothered to fly all the way to Belfast.

American and British ships would have being able to use Irish ports as strategic positions and as resupply stations. Even if Ireland didn't send any troops, although some brave individuals did in fact volunteer to go and fight, they still could have done a lot more to help the war effort. In fact the IRA asked for a German invasion and promised support for Hitler in an invasion if they could then take control of a united Ireland.
Point conceded. The dogmatic neutrality that was popular at the time was misguided.