NationStates Jolt Archive

I would like to see what people think about this issue. I find it hard to account for a "divine being" and I especially disagree with people that think we were created so give me some good facts in your defense.

I find it hard to account for the 500th thread with this title.

I find it hard to account for the 500th thread with this title.
I dont think ive seen a recent one so y don't u shut it and post a real response

I find it hard to account for the 500th thread with this title.

:D

It must prove the existance of god then. God's puppet nations are starting these threads, otherwise how could there be so many? ;)

:D

It must prove the existance of god then. God's puppet nations are starting these threads, otherwise how could there be so many? ;)
well he is anti-God so I dont know if that would apply. These debates can be a little pointless becuase I am about as likely to loose my faith as he is likely to become a devout Catholic-niether will happen and all that results is a pointless flame war.
but:fluffle:

I dont think ive seen a recent one so y don't u shut it and post a real response

Christains go right against the logical method. They say: "I'm going to believe in God until you prove he doesn't exist". As opposed to the traditional method of not making any assumptions, and only accepting a proposition once proof is first provided. No amount of debate is going to sway anybody. The religious nuts won't listen to reason, and the rest of us won't turn our back on it just so that we can live happier lives. Let the thread die.

Christains go right against the logical method. They say: "I'm going to believe in God until you prove he doesn't exist". As opposed to the traditional method of not making any assumptions, and only accepting a proposition once proof is first provided. No amount of debate is going to sway anybody. The religious nuts won't listen to reason, and the rest of us won't turn our back on it just so that we can live happier lives. Let the thread die.
Which is why the only logical position is agnosticism, since it is as impossible to prove that a supernatural deity doesn't exist as it is to prove that it does, since it is by definition beyond the natural world and its laws. So the best policy is not to start stupid threads meant solely to start a fight.

Christains go right against the logical method. They say: "I'm going to believe in God until you prove he doesn't exist". As opposed to the traditional method of not making any assumptions, and only accepting a proposition once proof is first provided. No amount of debate is going to sway anybody. The religious nuts won't listen to reason, and the rest of us won't turn our back on it just so that we can live happier lives. Let the thread die.
true, the bottom line is there is no god or higher being. End this childish discussion please

Aw jeez,
Not this shit again!

I can see where this is going so im going to change it to something that there is proof for, evolution. I don't understand why people still believe in creationism when evolution has been proven time and time again. Also if they start teaching creationism in biology classes i think im going to go insane.

Aw jeez,
Not this shit again!
We were supposed to leave this thread die.

We were supposed to leave this thread die.
boy i wish you could spell

Which is why the only logical position is agnosticism, since it is as impossible to prove that a supernatural deity doesn't exist as it is to prove that it does, since it is by definition beyond the natural world and its laws. So the best policy is not to start stupid threads meant solely to start a fight.

Atheism is also a logical position. Saying 'we cannot disprove whether God exists or not' sets a precedant. You'd have to have the same position on pixies, fairies, leprechauns and trolls. Saying I won't believe that god exists until it is proven beyond reasonble doubt is also logical.

boy i wish you could spell
Oh did I make a mispelling on an online forum? What a mistake! How low my IQ must be if I spelled a word wrong online! If you criticize some one for a mispelling, please at least use proper grammar when you do so.

boy i wish you could spell
I wish you could too. The word is 'you', not 'u'.;) In the original post you use that stupid text message language.

Wait....is this sarcasm? Well, your name has "Catholic" in it, so ill assume your not joking around about god. Bottom line: you use that logic with god, you might as well use that logic with "pixies, fairies, leprechauns, and trolls". Believe in them until proven otherwise. I also believe in flying rainbow pigs. I will call you an ignorant bastard if you try to reason with me and tell me they dont exist, even though theres no evidence that they don't exist.

I'm just going to ignore you from now on.:fluffle:

I dont think ive seen a recent one so y don't u shut it and post a real response
You haven't been here in a while, or so says your join date. We just finished a wave of these threads, so don't be surprised if people are irritated.

I dont think ive seen a recent one so y don't u shut it and post a real response

Also, don't be suprised if I think you're none too bright and will be weeded out shortly...

Oh did I make a mispelling on an online forum? What a mistake! How low my IQ must be if I spelled a word wrong online! If you criticize some one for a mispelling, please at least use proper grammar when you do so.
Wow way to shut me down when you f'd up mate. And don't think your smarter than me, because your not unless you've got an IQ of over 150.

Wow way to shut me down when you f'd up mate. And don't think your smarter than me, because your not unless you've got an IQ of over 150.
Everyone here has an IQ of at least 10^5.

Wow way to shut me down when you f'd up mate. And don't think your smarter than me, because your not unless you've got an IQ of over 150.


And here we go.....IM chat....quick to anger, and now sharing his IQ over the internet, next come some gun smilies, and generally being an @$$hat, before he leaves....

I would like to see what people think about this issue. I find it hard to account for a "divine being" and I especially disagree with people that think we were created so give me some good facts in your defense.


Start with the world, find yourself, start with yourself and end with the world.

We are divine. We are the will of divinity.

Wow way to shut me down when you f'd up mate. And don't think your smarter than me, because your not unless you've got an IQ of over 150.

IQ has little meaning. Everybody knows that potential is nothing unless it's used properly. And many people on this forum, including myself, have an IQ greater than 150. So don't appear arrogant until we know exactly how smart you are. Otherwise you'll make a lot of enemies. So why don't you demonstrate your wonderful intelligence for us. What is your position on God?

And here we go.....IM chat....quick to anger, and now sharing his IQ over the internet, next come some gun smilies, and generally being an @$$hat, before he leaves....
Here let me help him :mp5: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :sniper: :mp5:

Here let me help him :mp5: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :sniper: :mp5:
Brings back memories.

Brings back memories.
Rofl. Oh and I'm revising my belief on the existance or nonexistance of God.

He does exist.
His name is Chuck Norris :)

Rofl. Oh and I'm revising my belief on the existance or nonexistance of God.

He does exist.
His name is Chuck Norris :)
Amen, brother, amen.

God does exist, and he left a message in this Universe for us to find one day:

"We apologise for the inconvenience"

Err, if this is a vote or something, im going with a yes. After all, a car has to have a carmaker, a building has to have a builder, clothes have to have clothesmakers, I don't see why it can't follow that creation can have a creator.

Err, if this is a vote or something, im going with a yes. After all, a car has to have a carmaker, a building has to have a builder, clothes have to have clothesmakers, I don't see why it can't follow that creation can have a creator.

What if a brick factory explodes and the bricks fall into a neat little house? Does the house have a creator?

What if a brick factory explodes and the bricks fall into a neat little house? Does the house have a creator?
What about the cement that hold the bricks together. And yard work, so the house would have a Mexican creator probably...

What if a brick factory explodes and the bricks fall into a neat little house? Does the house have a creator?

If the brick factory exploded those bricks would go into shards, can't build no house with brick shardes, especially if its just a brick factory with no morter in it.

http://spamusement.com/index.php/comics/view/137

there is a god.
and he wants us to get married as many times as we want and have enough kids to repopulate the earth.

joseph smith had it right my friends.

-the holy empire of later day saints.

there is a god.
and he wants us to get married as many times as we want and have enough kids to repopulate the earth.

joseph smith had it right my friends.

-the holy empire of later day saints.

Well, quit wasting your time on the internet, son. Go out there and git some wives and make them live together in harmony and all that wonderful stuff. Maybe someday I'll be lucky enough to find a top hat with gold tablets in it or something.

What about the cement that hold the bricks together. And yard work, so the house would have a Mexican creator probably...

True. There wouldn't be any cement or grout. No nice lawn with lots of flowers. But it would look like a house if all the bricks fell neatly on top of each other. In the same way, we arise from the big bang. We aren't perfect. We have many weaknessess, but we still look like houses.

True. There wouldn't be any cement or grout. No nice lawn with lots of flowers. But it would look like a house if all the bricks fell neatly on top of each other. In the same way, we arise from the big bang. We aren't perfect. We have many weaknessess, but we still look like houses.

I'd say that the improvements are made by the people who LIVE in the houses. We hang up "home sweet home" in our caves, and we're in charge of how those houses develop.

I'd say that the improvements are made by the people who LIVE in the houses. We hang up "home sweet home" in our caves, and we're in charge of how those houses develop.

Yep.

Err, if this is a vote or something, im going with a yes. After all, a car has to have a carmaker, a building has to have a builder, clothes have to have clothesmakers, I don't see why it can't follow that creation can have a creator.
If so then who created the creator? Your logic is fallible to the binding laws of the universe that something cannot be created from nothing.

Christains go right against the logical method. They say: "I'm going to believe in God until you prove he doesn't exist". As opposed to the traditional method of not making any assumptions, and only accepting a proposition once proof is first provided. No amount of debate is going to sway anybody.

Logic tells us fuck all about what individual premises we should believe, it just tells us about how those beliefs interact with each other.

Does it realy matter weather or wheather or not there is a God. Why don't we all jsuut go about living our lives as is there was a God who didn't need us to acknowledgehim in any way. Infact, said God would smite you if youe even talked about him. Than everyone would be happy:)

God does exist, and he left a message in this Universe for us to find one day:

"We apologise for the inconvenience"
whew... thought for a moment it would've been "404 File not Found"
or howabout "The number you have reached has been changed. please check the number and try again" :D

I would like to see what people think about this issue. I find it hard to account for a "divine being" and I especially disagree with people that think we were created so give me some good facts in your defense.
Asking "Is there a god" is like asking, "Is there an XxxMenxxX?" We suspect there might be, but have no way of proving it. :p

whew... thought for a moment it would've been "404 File not Found"
or howabout "The number you have reached has been changed. please check the number and try again" :D
How about "Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated?" :D

I'm inclined to side with atheism, though I really don't hold a belief either way. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a god, but I highly doubt this god is anything like the Christian portrayal of "him".

I'm inclined to side with atheism, though I really don't hold a belief either way. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a god, but I highly doubt this god is anything like the Christian portrayal of "him".
Trying to portray a "super-natural being" would be like the classic story of four blind men trying to determine what an elephant looks like. Each one of us might be able to figure out some small aspect, but overall comprehension would be impossible, regardless of what religion we were.

Yes, you just so happen to be talking to him. What, mortal, do you bloody want?:p

Trying to portray a "super-natural being" would be like the classic story of four blind men trying to determine what an elephant looks like. Each one of us might be able to figure out some small aspect, but overall comprehension would be impossible, regardless of what religion we were.
for all we know; Islam, Jewish, Christianity... Heck, Buddism and others may be the same God as seen by many people.

I think an additional interesting question to the existence of God is - what do people want from God?

I suspect that strong motivating factor for commonplace belief in God is power. Few would believe in a God who does not communicate the desires of the believer.

right. i cant prove their is no god. to attempt so is folley, and visa versa.
BUUUt i can offer huuuuge evidence that religions are simply rubbish.
CHRISTIANITY
-The actual bible was written by constantinus 200 years after christs apparent birth, and the idea of the Virgin birth was taken from a Pagan God.
So... No. Christianity according to the current bible (Arianist) is Incorrect and was fabricated to make the bible more popular.
PAGANISM
well... although obviously this will be the easiest to disprove, heres why.
Pagans actually believed the gods lived among them on earth. do they? where are they then.
ZARATHUSTRAISM...ism...you knowthe one.
First religion to believe in heaven or hell and of free choice.
Therefore, if free choice exists then there cannot be an almighty being as you would HAVE to do what is desires.
ISLAM
Sort of dreading trying to disprove this one... cannot exist as an original religon as it takes ideas from Zarathurs... Z... that one.
Also believes in Free choice and as such no SUpreme being can exist.
BUDDISM
No god in Buddism
JUDAIISM.
No supreme being can exist by the Old Text of the bible if taken litterrally as it states that after Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge, if they had eaten the fruit of life they would become "Of equal stature as us."
also, god says "if they can create this tower with their unity and one language, they could challenge me one day!" tower of Babyl.
Ergo god according to Judaism is not Supreme

If so then who created the creator? Your logic is fallible to the binding laws of the universe that something cannot be created from nothing.
The Bible is quite clear in places such as 1 Kings 8:27 and 2 Chronicles 2:6 and I think a few more places that God cannot fit inside our universe. And if He cannot fit, for whatever reason, it seems to me that His existance outside our universe would render him immune to the binding laws of the universe He created....and im fairly certain there is some fundamental law out there that says we cannot logically comphrehend anything outside our universe since, well, logic might not even very well apply, not to mention the binding laws of our universe. Furthermore, through my wheelings and dealings in Wikipedia, it seems that the second law of thermodyamics was changed, once again, exibited here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Evolution/Archive_011 at the section saying "matter cannot organize itself" and at the beginning of the largest comment, so that apparently something can come from nothing. Personally, I think it's pretty ridiculous, but I don't change these laws, someone else does apparently.

The Bible is quite clear in places such as 1 Kings 8:27 and 2 Chronicles 2:6 and I think a few more places that God cannot fit inside our universe. And if He cannot fit, for whatever reason, it seems to me that His existance outside our universe would render him immune to the binding laws of the universe He created....and im fairly certain there is some fundamental law out there that says we cannot logically comphrehend anything outside our universe since, well, logic might not even very well apply, not to mention the binding laws of our universe. Furthermore, through my wheelings and dealings in Wikipedia, it seems that the second law of thermodyamics was changed, once again, exibited here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Evolution/Archive_011 at the section saying "matter cannot organize itself" and at the beginning of the largest comment, so that apparently something can come from nothing. Personally, I think it's pretty ridiculous, but I don't change these laws, someone else does apparently.

Leaving aside for the moment the oxymoron that is "outside the universe", it is nevertheless the case that if God were to act in our universe, he would have to obey our laws of physics and logic. Unfortunately, physics and logic don't leave a lot of room for a Godlike figure in the classical sense of the word: God cannot both be and not be at the same time, for instance, so there is some question about whether he is truly omnipotent, and it's difficult to see how God works wonders in a universe that obeys the Law of conservation of matter and energy.

This is of course not to say that God does not or cannot exist (I believe He does), but only that provided He exists, He is of a somewhat more limited nature than we make Him out to be.

The Bible is quite clear in places such as 1 Kings 8:27 and 2 Chronicles 2:6 and I think a few more places that God cannot fit inside our universe. And if He cannot fit, for whatever reason, it seems to me that His existance outside our universe would render him immune to the binding laws of the universe He created....and im fairly certain there is some fundamental law out there that says we cannot logically comphrehend anything outside our universe since, well, logic might not even very well apply, not to mention the binding laws of our universe. Furthermore, through my wheelings and dealings in Wikipedia, it seems that the second law of thermodyamics was changed, once again, exibited here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Evolution/Archive_011 at the section saying "matter cannot organize itself" and at the beginning of the largest comment, so that apparently something can come from nothing. Personally, I think it's pretty ridiculous, but I don't change these laws, someone else does apparently.
Inevitably u are the stupidest person i have ever talked to. If god is too "big" to fit inside of our universe how the hell does he interact witht things in this universe. Aslo the second law of thermodynamics disproves you (way to pick something that works against you) because it says how order goes to disorder (incorporate that to creation) and no process can be done without energy being used. So to "create" the universe energy would need to be used and where would that energy come from u say? Nothing! but oh wait my argument in the first place, Something cannot be created from nothing. Thus all the energy in the universe is, and has been, ever existent, and people like you are too close minded to understand infinity so you need to incorporate a creation date so your puny mind can handle it.

Inevitably u are the stupidest person i have ever talked to. If god is too "big" to fit inside of our universe how the hell does he interact witht things in this universe. Aslo the second law of thermodynamics disproves you (way to pick something that works against you) because it says how order goes to disorder (incorporate that to creation) and no process can be done without energy being used. So to "create" the universe energy would need to be used and where would that energy come from u say? Nothing! but oh wait my argument in the first place, Something cannot be created from nothing. Thus all the energy in the universe is, and has been, ever existent, and people like you are too close minded to understand infinity so you need to incorporate a creation date so your puny mind can handle it.

First, I don't see how being stupid is so bad, especially considering how increadibly relative that can be. I am probably extremely stupid compared to my classmates, and considering how smart they are, I think I deserve to be called stupid when compared to them, but that doesn't mean I can't say things that have some validity. Nextly, think of it this way, lets say you have a puddle that's only a few inches deep and you want to, say, grab something inside of it, do you have to somehow fit your entire body into that tiny puddle to pick up the object inside? Of course not, all you need to do is put only part of your hand in to pick it up, and likewise, God does not need to fit Himself into the universe to interact with it. As for the second law of thermodyamics, I was saying that because modern science has changed it so much like in that link so it fits evolution, technically speaking, nowadays God COULD of made the universe while under the second law of thermodynamics. Ridiculous you say that that law could be changed? Very yes. Preposterous to think that something can come from nothing? Also very yes. But as I pointed out, I don't change these laws, and I think it was ridiculous for it to be changed like that anyway, but the point I was making was that God, being outside the universe, does not have to be limited by any universal laws, and much of the time we're too busy re-writing them anyway for whatever reasons, so it's hard to tell what's what in the first place to be trying to limit the concept of God. Lastly, your right, I am too close-minded to understand infinite compleatly, so are you, along with every other person on the planet. In order to absolutly understand an infinite concept, I would need all knowladge. But when God comes and tells us He has these certain characteristics, and acts in a certain manner throughout history, we can assume that whatever He does is in line with these characteristics, and thusly we can at least paint a partial picture of what infinite goodness/justice/power/wisdom etc. etc. is, even if we don't understand it compleatly. Also, im not the one who made up the day creation was made, technically speaking, the Bible doesn't actually give a number, basically all that can be done is count through geneology trees and get approximations and stuff, I personally don't know exactly when creation was made, but it doesn't seem very relevant to this discussion anyway.