NationStates Jolt Archive

I mean, how could you make poeple stop looking at each others skin.
Like that they didn't even think about that, and looked further then that.
I mean like in terms of how to teach them that. Not some nutjobb idea of forcing people to inter marry each other;)

It's just a matter of time. Soon enough, we'll all be hispanic. :)

By telling them it's wrong. By showing them it's wrong. And by every time you see someone acting in a racist manner, standing up and talking against it. Do that for a century or so until all the racist bastards have died and your liberal buddies have been replenished by new people joining your ranks, as liberals tend to be, and Bob will be your uncle.

Kill them all.

Easy, simple, quick, and it gets rid of a lot of other problems too -- like overpopulation, war, poverty, rape... etc. ;)

It's just a matter of time. Soon enough, we'll all be hispanic. :)
KEWL! I love tequilla! And maraiachi bands, and spicy-hot foods, and ... and ... and! I'd make a great Hispanic! :D

It's just a matter of time. Soon enough, we'll all be hispanic. :)

I never understood the term Hispanic, does it refer only to latinos of indian oregin, or also to europeen latinos, anyways, I meant other the inter marrying people:p

By getting people of different races to work and hang out together. That way they get to know good, friendly, responsible people of other races which undermines racist stereotypes.

to europeen latinos

Why would someone not from Latin America be referred to as "latino?" Are you referring to Spanish people?

Why would someone not from Latin America be referred to as "latino?" Are you referring to Spanish people?

Yeah but I mean like, people who are decendents of europeans, who are stil from latin america...

Well never mind

Yeah but I mean like, people who are decendents of europeans, who are stil from latin america...

Well never mind

Most people from Latin America are descendants of Europeans, and Indians, and Africans and so on, in a wonderful blend. They weren't very keen on only bedding after origin, fortunately.

Anyway:

Main Entry: His·pan·ic
Pronunciation: hi-'spa-nik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin hispanicus, from Hispania Iberian Peninsula, Spain
: of, relating to, or being a person of Latin American descent living in the U.S.; especially : one of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin

It's just a matter of time. Soon enough, we'll all be hispanic. :)

Muy bueno! :D

I never understood the term Hispanic, does it refer only to latinos of indian oregin, or also to europeen latinos, anyways, I meant other the inter marrying people:p

Seeing as though I consider myself hispanic even though I'm only half puerto-rican (and even that's a stretch. My grandfather was spanish), I've given that alot of thought.

The 'Hispanic' ethnicity seems to generate a lot of pride. It's a quiet kind of pride, howver. Not like the relatively loud and flamboyant black pride. I've noticed that as latin-americans interbreed with caucasians, blacks and asians that most of the children consider themselves hispanic. Even if they are as little as 1/4 hispanic, they will still pick up, retain and pass on the hispanic culture to their children. The only real comparison are native americans.
And the comparison is an apt one. Native Americans and Hispanic americans have a lot in common. I can trace my ancestry back to the land bridge too.

That's probably why the hispanic ethnicity is the fastest growing race or ethnicity in the United States. And it's the foundation for my 'Everybody will be hispanic' joke. :)

What does it matter if people are racist? People are always going to hate other people. They either don't like the way they live their life, the way they dress, the way they act around you. What's the difference between hating any of these attributes of a person, and hating the colour of their skin? Hating someones skin colour isn't something that they've sat down and thought about rationally. It's purely emotional. People don't choose to be racist any more than they choose to like the taste of chocolate. But do we have a group of nuts going around finding ways of forcing people to stop liking chocolate because it's their opinion that chocolate tastes bad? Of course not. It would be infringing on the persons freedoms to force them to stop liking chocolate. In the same way, it's a violation of human rights to force somebody not to be racist. So you have your own anti-racist beliefs if you like. But don't find ways of forcing the world to adopt your values, because people don't like it when their freedoms are taken away.

It's as simple as taking a bag full of pennies to their faces.

:p

we'll all be hispanic if we all aren't chinese!

i know those gooks are planning something.......

By telling them it's wrong. By showing them it's wrong. And by every time you see someone acting in a racist manner, standing up and talking against it. Do that for a century or so until all the racist bastards have died and your liberal buddies have been replenished by new people joining your ranks, as liberals tend to be, and Bob will be your uncle.
Yeah. Right. That's obviously going to work perfectly... and people will do it because they have no ingrained prejudices... and one voice out of billions will make a big difference... :rolleyes:

Fass, I thought you were a sensible one.

What does it matter if people are racist? People are always going to hate other people. They either don't like the way they live their life, the way they dress, the way they act around you. What's the difference between hating any of these attributes of a person, and hating the colour of their skin? Hating someones skin colour isn't something that they've sat down and thought about rationally. It's purely emotional. People don't choose to be racist any more than they choose to like the taste of chocolate. But do we have a group of nuts going around finding ways of forcing people to stop liking chocolate because it's their opinion that chocolate tastes bad? Of course not. It would be infringing on the persons freedoms to force them to stop liking chocolate. In the same way, it's a violation of human rights to force somebody not to be racist. So you have your own anti-racist beliefs if you like. But don't find ways of forcing the world to adopt your values, because people don't like it when their freedoms are taken away.

What a bunch of crock. Nobody was talking about forcing anyone to do anything.

What a bunch of crock. Nobody was talking about forcing anyone to do anything.
... I didn't even understand what he's talking about ...

Yeah. Right. That's obviously going to work perfectly...

Well, it worked with slavery, and segregation, and discrimination in the extent that we no longer find any of them acceptable.

and people will do it because they have no ingrained prejudices... and one voice out of billions will make a big difference... :rolleyes:

Of course it will. Everything has a beginning.

Fass, I thought you were a sensible one.

I am. Changing attitudes is a long and laborious process. I have patience.

I believe that the flesh eating bacteria was created for this very purpose. I cant, for the life of me, remember why is was recalled though. It was much better than what we did with that Jackson lad :confused:

... I didn't even understand what he's talking about ...

Hence it being a bunch of crock.

What a bunch of crock. Nobody was talking about forcing anyone to do anything.

I must have interpreted the title of the thread "How Could You Get People To Stop Being Racist?" incorrectly. A thousand pardons.

... I didn't even understand what he's talking about ...

The title of the thread implied that the person wanted to find a way to stop people being racist. I made the point that they shouldn't find a way to stop people being racist, because it is a persons freedom to have their own beliefs and values.

I must have interpreted the title of the thread "How Could You Get People To Stop Being Racist?" incorrectly. A thousand pardons.

You did - see how the thread title contains nothing about forcing anyone to do anything, and how the OP clearly states "Not some nutjobb idea of forcing people"?

Pardon accepted. Next time, you will just have to read more carefully to avoid embarrassment.

Well, it worked with slavery, and segregation, and discrimination in the extent that we no longer find any of them acceptable.

You ever spent very much time in the American Deep South? I didn't think so. There are still ingrained attitudes and prejudices against African-Americans there... even some discrimination, especially in schools. For example, by a curious coincidence no-one except whites actually manages to get into the gifted classes....

Of course it will. Everything has a beginning.

That's idealistic thinking. The only reason why slavery and such things were abolished was because people were already mistrustful of them in the North, where the economy didn't rely on slave labor to keep functioning. And since the North was basically in control of the country, slavery and segregation and so on were outlawed. Since then the attitude has passed down through families that such things are unacceptable, but only in places with enough prejudice against them already.


I am. Changing attitudes is a long and laborious process. I have patience.
Pfft. To change peoples' attitude you need:

a) A heck of a lot of money.
b) Friends in high places (or a position in a high place yourself).
c) Your own TV show (see A or B).
d) A private army equivalent to the KKK to target only racists. (Kind of hypocritical, and not recommended.)

Or a combination of all of the above. And even that might not work.

The title of the thread implied that the person wanted to find a way to stop people being racist. I made the point that they shouldn't find a way to stop people being racist, because it is a persons freedom to have their own beliefs and values.

In the marketplace of ideas, it is a free for all to influence other people. Freedom to have your beliefs and values does not contain "freedom" from having them challenged or affected.

Just wait for the aliens to arrive, either they'll destroy us all, or we'll be united in destroying all of them.
Yay, outer-galaxical racism

its easy to get everyone to not be rascist anymore

tell them the truth

the first people came from africa, and spread all throughout the world.

You did - see how the thread title contains nothing about forcing anyone to do anything, and how the OP clearly states "Not some nutjobb idea of forcing people"?

Pardon accepted. Next time, you will just have to read more carefully to avoid embarrassment.

I see there's some confusion. I'm terribly sorry, sarcastic tone isn't transmitted particularly efficiently via the internet. To teach somebody to look past a persons skin colour is, in fact, the crock of shit. I believe I made the point that racism is purely emotional. You can't teach somebody to have a different emotion. They have to be willing to change their emotion themselves. If they want to, they will. If they don't want to, then they won't change no matter how much anyone else would like it to change. Tuition does absolutely nothing unless it's communicating a rational, logical, idea. Since tuition will do absolutely nothing, because emotion can't be taught, the only other possible way to stop somebody being racist is to force them. Which would be wrong.

its easy to get everyone to not be rascist anymore

tell them the truth

the first people came from africa, and spread all throughout the world.

People know that. It makes no difference.

You ever spent very much time in the American Deep South? I didn't think so. There are still ingrained attitudes and prejudices against African-Americans there... even some discrimination, especially in schools. For example, by a curious coincidence no-one except whites actually manages to get into the gifted classes....

So? You would deny the efficacy of the method into turning those people into fringe elements? Because that is just what they are.

That's idealistic thinking.

Of course it is. So?

The only reason why slavery and such things were abolished was because people were already mistrustful of them in the North, where the economy didn't rely on slave labor to keep functioning. And since the North was basically in control of the country, slavery and segregation and so on were outlawed. Since then the attitude has passed down through families that such things are unacceptable, but only in places with enough prejudice against them already.

Oh, dear, you think the only place that had slavery was the US, and that I somehow was US-centric? Please, rid yourself of that misperception, and ask yourself where those anti-slavery ideas in the North came from, and what would have happened to slavery if the ideas hadn't existed.

Pfft. To change peoples' attitude you need:

a) A heck of a lot of money.
b) Friends in high places (or a position in a high place yourself).
c) Your own TV show (see A or B).
d) A private army equivalent to the KKK to target only racists. (Kind of hypocritical, and not recommended.)

Or a combination of all of the above. And even that might not work.

Ghandi would beg to differ, as would most philosophers who have influenced our thoughts and attitudes throughout history.

People know that. It makes no difference.


oh right...Ignorance. As long as there is ignorance, there will be racism.

oh right...Ignorance. As long as there is ignorance, there will be racism.

No. As long as humans aren't robots, there will be racism.

I see there's some confusion. I'm terribly sorry, sarcastic tone isn't transmitted particularly efficiently via the internet. To teach somebody to look past a persons skin colour is, in fact, the crock of shit. I believe I made the point that racism is purely emotional. You can't teach somebody to have a different emotion. They have to be willing to change their emotion themselves. If they want to, they will. If they don't want to, then they won't change no matter how much anyone else would like it to change. Tuition does absolutely nothing unless it's communicating a rational, logical, idea. Since tuition will do absolutely nothing, because emotion can't be taught, the only other possible way to stop somebody being racist is to force them. Which would be wrong.

I challenge the assertion that racism is purely emotional, and also your entire "argument" fails with the possibility of making people want to change. You can never change anyone that doesn't want to change, but you can get them to want to change themselves. Your straw man as to forcing anyone to anything is just that - a straw man.

I challenge the assertion that racism is purely emotional, and also your entire "argument" fails with the possibility of making people want to change. You can never change anyone that doesn't want to change, but you can get them to want to change themselves. Your straw man as to forcing anyone to anything is just that - a straw man.

You challenge that assertion? You mean to say that there is a logical reason as to why somebody should be racist?

I don't understand the second part. Could you perhaps spell out in plain terms exactly what is wrong with my argument?

It's pretty hard for anyone who's racist to stop, no matter what measure of things you do. As long as there are racists, there will be more. If we just stopped talking about race altogether, and started referring to people as the human race, we might be doing ourselves a bit of good.

And destroy Hollywood. They thrive on sterotypes.

You challenge that assertion? You mean to say that there is a logical reason as to why somebody should be racist?

People who are racists reason around their racism. It's not purely emotional at all. Unless you by "purely" mean "not purely."

I don't understand the second part. Could you perhaps spell out in plain terms exactly what is wrong with my argument?

Your argument asserts, and I question it, that racism is purely emotional and that you cannot change people who don't want to change, while completely neglecting that you can indeed make people want to change. You argument only stands if this "purity" is unquestioned and only then when it is coupled with the omission to acknowledge that you can make people want to do something.

People who are racists reason around their racism. It's not purely emotional at all. Unless you by "purely" mean "not purely."
People feel the need to justify their emotions. Any argument produced is invariably easily countered. There is a Nietzsche quote I'd like to post, but I can't find it. It basically says that few people, particularly philosophers, are truly objective. They try to force what the feel to become truth. The logic, because it is motivated by emotion, is always flawed.



Your argument asserts, and I question it, that racism is purely emotional and that you cannot change people who don't want to change, while completely neglecting that you can indeed make people want to change. You argument only stands if this "purity" is unquestioned and only then when it is coupled with the omission to acknowledge that you can make people want to do something.

But that is the entire point. People that don't want to change won't. Hell, some people still believe that the earth is flat, despite irrefutable proof. So if a strong willed racist person is confronted with proof as to why racism is wrong, they'll still be racist because they trust their feelings more than logic. People like this though are few and far between. Most commonly are people who have feelings on a particular issue, but with the right amount of pressure, can be convinced that they are wrong. But making somebody change their mind through pressure constitutes force. Which was supposed to be avoided in the effort to stop racism. The point was that you can't stop it without applying some form of force.

Racism is at it's heart, a variant of stupidity. How do you get people to stop being stupid?

Racism is at it's heart, a variant of stupidity. How do you get people to stop being stupid?

I don't see how it's stupidity. Care to explain?

People feel the need to justify their emotions. Any argument produced is invariably easily countered. There is a Nietzsche quote I'd like to post, but I can't find it. It basically says that few people, particularly philosophers, are truly objective. They try to force what the feel to become truth. The logic, because it is motivated by emotion, is always flawed.

Irrelevant. If you can reason around it, the reasoning can be affected as to change the emotion, dull it, ignore it, and even annihilate it. Your "purity" is fictional.

But that is the entire point. People that don't want to change won't.

Again: You can make them want to change.

I don't see how it's stupidity. Care to explain?

It is more than "purely emotional." What exactly is a "racist emotion?" There isn't one. You can say racism is motivated by anger, or hurt - and perhaps it is. But that's not all it is, because not everyone who feels those things, even for a person of specific [race], becomes a racist. Racism is an intellectual concept in which everyone of a specific race becomes the object of those feelings of hatred, hurt, anger whatever. That generalization is an abstract, not concrete thought. It is the product of human illogical thinking. Racism is in many cases, an idealogy, which is againt an intellectualization.

And if you honestly can't see anything stupid about certain racist idealogies, it's no wonder why you can't see anything stupid about racism itself. But I tend to think you're just arguing to hear the sound of your own voice.

Irrelevant. If you can reason around it, the reasoning can be affected as to change the emotion, dull it, ignore it, and even annihilate it. Your "purity" is fictional.
Any of this supposed 'reasoning' you're on about is motivated by emotion. People apply reasoning that suits their feelings, which is invariably flawed. Proper objective analysis has been performed on the subject and it met the same ends as most other subjects. 'Racism is bad' cannot be shown to be logically correct because for such a statement we need a clear definition and proof of existance of 'bad'. Which we don't have because 'bad' has also been shown to be purely emotional. No proper reasoning can change peoples minds in any way because there isn't any proper reasoning. Our ideas on racism are motivated by our concept of good and bad (which has been shown to be purely emotional) and is therefore also purely emotional.


Again: You can make them want to change.
Again, that constitutes force. Which we are trying to avoid.

It is more than "purely emotional." What exactly is a "racist emotion?" There isn't one. You can say racism is motivated by anger, or hurt - and perhaps it is. But that's not all it is, because not everyone who feels those things, even for a person of specific [race], becomes a racist. Racism is an intellectual concept in which everyone of a specific race becomes the object of those feelings of hatred, hurt, anger whatever. That generalization is an abstract, not concrete thought. It is the product of human illogical thinking. Racism is in many cases, an idealogy, which is againt an intellectualization.

And if you honestly can't see anything stupid about certain racist idealogies, it's no wonder why you can't see anything stupid about racism itself. But I tend to think you're just arguing to hear the sound of your own voice.

Do you forget that an ideaology has to have a basis? A proper logical foundation. Is there one for racism? What is it?

Any of this supposed 'reasoning' you're on about is motivated by emotion.

There you go, blowing that purity of yours out of the water. Your argument fails by your own words.

Again, that constitutes force. Which we are trying to avoid.

Only if you have no idea what force is, which I am starting to believe you don't.

I mean, how could you make poeple stop looking at each others skin.
Like that they didn't even think about that, and looked further then that.
I mean like in terms of how to teach them that. Not some nutjobb idea of forcing people to inter marry each other;)

Simple...you kill them...stop them from breeding.... Kidding! (sort of) Honestly you probably need to submerge them in the conflicting culture. Ususally that opens their eyes. Unless they go crazy...then no one's happy...

Do you forget that an ideaology has to have a basis? A proper logical foundation. Is there one for racism? What is it?

It's the [stupid] idea that if something is true for [people of X race I have encountered or heard of] then it must be true for all [people of X race].

And an idealogy doesn't need to have a 'proper logical foundation.' By definition it only has to be 'systematic,' or even just a 'manner of thinking.' For example, a STUPID manner of thinking. ;)

There you go, blowing that purity of yours out of the water. Your argument fails by your own words.

Excuse me? No logical statement is used as the basis of the belief. The basis is emotioal. Making any rational idea after that void. Leaving just the emotion. Making it purely emotional. Just because some logic is thrown in the mix at some point doesn't make the belief any part logical.


Only if you have no idea what force is, which I am starting to believe you don't.
Telling somebody a logical proof is not force. Pressuring somebody to change their mind without any logical deduction does constitute force. Force isn't just something physical. It also decsribes the concept of psychological pressure.

It's the [stupid] idea that if something is true for [people of X race I have encountered or heard of] then it must be true for all [people of X race].

And an idealogy doesn't need to have a 'proper logical foundation.' By definition it only has to be 'systematic,' or even just a 'manner of thinking.' For example, a STUPID manner of thinking. ;)

If it doesn't have a logical basis then it is emotional.:headbang:

If it doesn't have a logical basis then it is emotional.:headbang:

Sure... if the only two things in the human mind were "logic" and "emotion." That's a flawed premise you'll have to work on, one of many, I suspect.

Sure... if the only two things in the human mind were "logic" and "emotion." That's a flawed premise you'll have to work on, one of many, I suspect.

A flawed premise. Are you joking. What else is there? Give me an example.
And stop insulting my intelligence when this is only the first time we've spoken.

By telling them it's wrong. By showing them it's wrong. And by every time you see someone acting in a racist manner, standing up and talking against it. Do that for a century or so until all the racist bastards have died and your liberal buddies have been replenished by new people joining your ranks, as liberals tend to be, and Bob will be your uncle.
Pretty much true. Education and propaganda are the best way, probably.

People don't choose to be racist any more than they choose to like the taste of chocolate.
Was this pun intended? ;)

The title of the thread implied that the person wanted to find a way to stop people being racist. I made the point that they shouldn't find a way to stop people being racist, because it is a persons freedom to have their own beliefs and values.
No one cares about the people who are racist and never say or do anything about it. It's the racists who make others suffer and be inconvenienced that I am against.

A flawed premise. Are you joking. What else is there? Give me an example.
And stop insulting my intelligence when this is only the first time we've spoken.

Let's see, there's non-logical thinking. There's dreams, which aren't emotions and which aren't logic. There's communication, which can be emotional or logical or neither. Etc etc. I'm sure you'll try to ramrod everything into an either/or case though.

And I'm not insulting your intelligence. I'm insulting your emotions! Emotions have the basis of your argument here, because you're a human not a robot, hence the only thing that counts is your emotions. Right? ;)

And would it really help to point out that technically we've 'spoken' several times so far? Would me insulting you be more acceptable in that case?

Kill them all.

Easy, simple, quick, and it gets rid of a lot of other problems too -- like overpopulation, war, poverty, rape... etc. ;)

lol its probably true

I mean, how could you make poeple stop looking at each others skin.
Like that they didn't even think about that, and looked further then that.
I mean like in terms of how to teach them that. Not some nutjobb idea of forcing people to inter marry each other;)
I always like the Barney Gumble approach...
One place for the French one place for the Chinese etc etc.
My second idea was intermarriage...

You know if we didn't have racisim there wouldn't be nearly as many wars.

Pretty much true. Education and propaganda are the best way, probably.

By extension, full scale indoctrination then...

Frankly, why bother?

Let's see, there's non-logical thinking. There's dreams, which aren't emotions and which aren't logic. There's communication, which can be emotional or logical or neither. Etc etc. I'm sure you'll try to ramrod everything into an either/or case though.

And I'm not insulting your intelligence. I'm insulting your emotions! Emotions have the basis of your argument here, because you're a human not a robot, hence the only thing that counts is your emotions. Right? ;)

And would it really help to point out that technically we've 'spoken' several times so far? Would me insulting you be more acceptable in that case?

We're talking about methods the human mind employs when deciding positions on debate topics.

I've yet to see or hear about a racist person. PErhaps you are confused and think there are several races of humans which is not true.
It's just a matter of time. Soon enough, we'll all be hispanic. :)
Please no.

I've yet to see or hear about a racist person. PErhaps you are confused and think there are several races of humans which is not true.

Please no.

Don't be pedantic.

KEWL! I love tequilla! And maraiachi bands, and spicy-hot foods, and ... and ... and! I'd make a great Hispanic! :D

You certainly would. :)

You want to stop people from being racist? Encourage minorities to adopt mainstream culture. There's nothing to be proud about being black, white, hispanic or asian. It's how people are born. Everyone has skin and there isn't one kind that's better than another.

As long as people insist on displaying pride in their race, there are going to be other people that insist on displaying predjudice towards that race.

*rips off his skin*

There. No one can possibly be racist against me!

*dies 5 minutes later from massive bacterial and viral infections as well as major loss of blood*

I mean, how could you make poeple stop looking at each others skin.
Like that they didn't even think about that, and looked further then that.
I mean like in terms of how to teach them that. Not some nutjobb idea of forcing people to inter marry each other;)
take an equal number of people from different ethnic backgrounds and leave them on an Island ala survivor. two or three generations later... see what happens.