NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060115/sc_nm/japan_whales_dc

Japanese whaler harpoon in near-miss with protesters

Sun Jan 15, 10:28 AM ET

CANBERRA (Reuters) - A Japanese whaling harpoon narrowly missed an inflatable boat carrying environmental protesters, causing one to fall into the freezing sea, as both sides warn their face-off is becoming increasingly dangerous.


:rolleyes: Next thing you know, people who set free lab animals will start complaining when the monkeys they released spread their deadly virus and turn us all into mindless zombies... :D

Stupid Greenpeace Protestor (Almost) Harpooned

And why not 'Stupid Whaler (Almost) Harpoons Protestor'?

And why not 'Stupid Whaler (Almost) Harpoons Protestor'?
Because the whaler is supposed to shoot harpoons. That's his job. It's like blaming a bus driver if some idiot protesting greyhoud decides to step in front of a bus.

Somebody put their life on the line to try and protect something that they care deeply about? What an idiot!

And why not 'Stupid Whaler (Almost) Harpoons Protestor'?

Because Whalers are expeced to throw harpoons? rather than floating out on sea in an inflatible boat to protest.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060115/sc_nm/japan_whales_dc



:rolleyes: Next thing you know, people who set free lab animals will start complaining when the monkeys they released spread their deadly virus and turn us all into mindless zombies... :D

i dont like the way you call greenpeace activists (like me, except i dont get the chance to try to save whales) stupid. i think they were putting themselves in danger in order to protect the whale. which is bravery in my eyes. well done to them.

Somebody put their life on the line to try and protect something that they care deeply about? What an idiot!

Well sure, maybe that could garner some kinda respect, but it doesn't make the actions any more intelligent.

i dont like the way you call greenpeace activists (like me, except i dont get the chance to try to save whales) stupid. i think they were putting themselves in danger in order to protect the whale. which is bravery in my eyes. well done to them.


Again, brave perhaps, but none too bright. Couldn't they maybe protest at the whaling company HQ or base of operations, or whale blubber processing plant or something?

What's the big deal about whales anyway?

Because Whalers are expeced to throw harpoons?

Do you really imagine that on Japanese whaling ships they still physically throw harpoons by hand? THose days are long dead and gone.

I agree with Greenpeace's mission... but, dang, what did they expect, exactly? If they really wanted to do something productive, they should have brought guns, boarded, took all the harpoons and whaling equipment, and sent them home.

What's the big deal about whales anyway?

they are amazing, precious, mysterious creatures just like everything else.

Because the whaler is supposed to shoot harpoons. That's his job. It's like blaming a bus driver if some idiot protesting greyhoud decides to step in front of a bus.

Or like standing in front of a tank in Tiannemen Square?

And why not 'Stupid Whaler (Almost) Harpoons Protestor'?
because we dont want whales or green peace members:p

Or like standing in front of a tank in Tiannemen Square?
*nods* peaceful resistance - it's a perfectly valid tactic

they are amazing, precious, mysterious creatures just like everything else.

Oh la de da!:rolleyes:

I assume you don't live near any chavs then....

Do you really imagine that on Japanese whaling ships they still physically throw harpoons by hand? THose days are long dead and gone.


Okay fire, launch, propell, expectorate, whatever you wanna call it, jeez.

Well sure, maybe that could garner some kinda respect, but it doesn't make the actions any more intelligent.




Again, brave perhaps, but none too bright. Couldn't they maybe protest at the whaling company HQ or base of operations, or whale blubber processing plant or something?


Most bravery is done because of the heart and not the mind. I can't think of any brave action that can be called "intelligent"

Again, brave perhaps, but none too bright. Couldn't they maybe protest at the whaling company HQ or base of operations, or whale blubber processing plant or something?

one of greenpeaces unwritten rules is 'action not words'. the organisation concentrates more on high profile, hands on activism.

Or like standing in front of a tank in Tiannemen Square?
he wasn't protesting. He was an OCD sufferer, and felt comfortable only when standing in front of large objects.

Oh la de da!:rolleyes:

I assume you don't live near any chavs then....
what, so you'd be cool if the japanese came along and harpooned them all?

Most bravery is done because of the heart and not the mind. I can't think of any brave action that can be called "intelligent"

Then the problem with calling them "stupid greenpeace protestors" is?...

Oh la de da!:rolleyes:

I assume you don't live near any chavs then....

yeah, i do, i teach some of them, and its amazing to see them transform and become interested and motivated about something.

:rolleyes: Next thing you know, people who set free lab animals will start complaining when the monkeys they released spread their deadly virus and turn us all into mindless zombies... :D

Yeah, all those people concerned about the Japanese whaling industry must be truly insane whackos who are far out there and marginalised on the edges of society. We will just conveniently ignore the repeated protests that the US government has made against the Japanese expansion of their whaling operations, won't we? It'll make the whole 'mock the pinkos' thang go a whole lot easier.

he wasn't protesting. He was an OCD sufferer, and felt comfortable only when standing in front of large objects.

Well, if you could convince him that you're constatly in front of the planet, he'd be cured! (b^_^)b

he wasn't protesting. He was an OCD sufferer, and felt comfortable only when standing in front of large objects.

10 points for the quality reference.

what, so you'd be cool if the japanese came along and harpooned them all?

Hmmm, honestly, yes I rather I think I would, as would most of middle England.:p

yeah, i do, i teach some of them, and its amazing to see them transform and become interested and motivated about something.

Do you teach petty crime, profanity use or lack of sartorial style then?:p

The only time I have ever seen a chav motivated is when fleeing the police.

Then the problem with calling them "stupid greenpeace protestors" is?...


I guess you could say it's okay as long as you dont object to calling policemen and firemen idiots for being in that line of work. Or calling anyone in the military retards for putting themselves in danger.

Some of us feel that callingn someone stupid for doing something noble and brave is a bit disheartening.

I thought it was norway that did far and away the most whaling, not japan. So why is it that it is always the japanese who get criticized for this? And why isn't greenpeace harassing the noggies.

Yeah, all those people concerned about the Japanese whaling industry must be truly insane whackos who are far out there and marginalised on the edges of society. We will just conveniently ignore the repeated protests that the US government has made against the Japanese expansion of their whaling operations, won't we? It'll make the whole 'mock the pinkos' thang go a whole lot easier.

Well, It would be more difficult to mock them if they were a bit more...strategic in their protests....As in, we wouldn't see an arcticle like this.

Do you teach petty crime, profanity use or lack of sartorial style then?:p

The only time I have ever seen a chav motivated is when fleeing the police.

no, im a student DT teacher, its an easier subject for them to get into.

i think you are displaying lots of chav characteristics myself.

Most bravery is done because of the heart and not the mind. I can't think of any brave action that can be called "intelligent"

Very true.

Well, It would be more difficult to mock them if they were a bit more...strategic in their protests....As in, we wouldn't see an arcticle like this.

Surely the articles like this one, which gets the matter noticed and some bizarre variety of debate going amongst us great unwashed shows the success of strategies such as this, rather than its shortcomings?

I thought it was norway that did far and away the most whaling, not japan. So why is it that it is always the japanese who get criticized for this? And why isn't greenpeace harassing the noggies.

im pretty sure we do, and definitely about overfishing.

Some of us feel that callingn someone stupid for doing something noble and brave is a bit disheartening.

Noble and brave indeed, interfering at every available oppurtunity, doind their damn best to oppose economic progress, and making a considerably amount of noise whenver, by virtue of their zeal, they are nearly killed.

I guess you could say it's okay as long as you dont object to calling policemen and firemen idiots for being in that line of work. Or calling anyone in the military retards for putting themselves in danger.
I don't object to that.
Fuck the whales and fuck anybody who gets in the way of their inevitable destruction!

no, im a student DT teacher, its an easier subject for them to get into.

i think you are displaying lots of chav characteristics myself.

Indeed, do elaborate, I'm all ears.....:)

Indeed, do elaborate, I'm all ears.....:)

bigotry, for one.

he wasn't protesting. He was an OCD sufferer, and felt comfortable only when standing in front of large objects.Large, pointy objects... OMG! Was it Fass?!?!

Seriously though, this is like blaming the death of St. Pancake (Rachel -gaak- Corrie) on Catepillar for selling bulldozers. :rolleyes:

Stand in front of my rifle during hunting season wearing a deerskin (faux fur of course) and see what happens. Mmmmm Long Pork.... :eek:

I thought it was norway that did far and away the most whaling, not japan. So why is it that it is always the japanese who get criticized for this? And why isn't greenpeace harassing the noggies.

Am I right in thinking that Norway pulled out of the IWC a few years back, thus making international protests more difficult to table?

I guess you could say it's okay as long as you dont object to calling policemen and firemen idiots for being in that line of work. Or calling anyone in the military retards for putting themselves in danger.

Some of us feel that callingn someone stupid for doing something noble and brave is a bit disheartening.


Well, sure, I'm just speaking from an objective position, one wouldn't puut themselves in mortal danger unless there were large benefits and doing so was the only way to reach said benefits. For policemen and firemen and anyone in the military there are, as a society, large benefits to putting oneself in such danger, and it's the only way to get the job done. For these protesters, they could have done the same thing, but a lot safer, it's like if a firefighter could stand outside a biuling and fire a hose at it, or go into the middle of the blaze, then start spraying.


Also, I don't use the word retard like that.

Large, pointy objects... OMG! Was it Fass?!?!

Seriously though, this is like blaming the death of St. Pancake (Rachel -gaak- Corrie) on Catepillar for selling bulldozers. :rolleyes:

If you support a military by supplying them in the full knowledge of the way they operate, then your hands are not clean when it comes to their actions.

Stand in front of my rifle during hunting season wearing a deerskin (faux fur of course) and see what happens. Mmmmm Long Pork.... :eek:

Are you labouring under the misapprehension that the protestors were disguised as some kind of pantomime whale?

they are amazing, precious, mysterious creatures just like everything else.
So then, cows are amazing, precious, mysterious creatures too? I'll think about that next time I go to Wendys for a classic triple with cheese and bacon.

bigotry, for one.

Bigot, moi? I demand satisfaction!:p

Seriously though, try living in suburban Essax for a month and guage how thoroughly deplorable and damnable the ingrates are, or, try being mugged twice and happy slapped four times in one annum, with a broken nose to boot. They deserve all the repression and scorn they accrue, degenerates.

Surely the articles like this one, which gets the matter noticed and some bizarre variety of debate going amongst us great unwashed shows the success of strategies such as this, rather than its shortcomings?


That would be buying into "any press is good press" sure, if most people spend the discussion insulting the protesters, that's gotta be great for the morale of the movement

Well, sure, I'm just speaking from an objective position, one wouldn't puut themselves in mortal danger unless there were large benefits and doing so was the only way to reach said benefits.

you hit the nail on the head!

For policemen and firemen and anyone in the military there are, as a society, large benefits to putting oneself in such danger, and it's the only way to get the job done. For these protesters, they could have done the same thing, but a lot safer, it's like if a firefighter could stand outside a biuling and fire a hose at it, or go into the middle of the blaze, then start spraying.


they could have, but that would have got NO attention.

So then, cows are amazing, precious, mysterious creatures too?

Yes.

For these protesters, they could have done the same thing, but a lot safer, it's like if a firefighter could stand outside a biuling and fire a hose at it, or go into the middle of the blaze, then start spraying.
but that's dramatic! ever seen Backdraft? "That's my brother". Unforgettable

Or like standing in front of a tank in Tiannemen Square?
Exactly. You want to protest the Chinese government? Build homemade shaped charge anti vehicle mines. You want to commit suicide stand in front of a Chinese tank. Shit, that government kills people for just being members of a religious group. It's insane to think that they won't kill you for directly protesting the government.

So then, cows are amazing, precious, mysterious creatures too? I'll think about that next time I go to Wendys for a classic triple with cheese and bacon.

yeah, i believe they are, and i wish that everyone was vegetarian. but it wont happen, i know.

That would be buying into "any press is good press" sure, if most people spend the discussion insulting the protesters, that's gotta be great for the morale of the movement

Let us not fall into the trap of taking the mainly teenaged and politically entrenched (whether soft-left or soft-right) denizens of NS General as being fair samples of those exposed to the news.

"I just have one question about whales: who cares? All I ever hear are people pissing and moaning about saving the whales. Why save the whales? Screw them, what have they done for me? How would you like to go to the beach one day and read a sign that says "Sorry, all out of water." Not likely? Think again. Here's a little fact about whales that not many people know:

Whales are drinking all our water and eating our sailors.

When they're not busy ravaging the high seas, they're getting beached and rotting to death out of spite so nobody can enjoy the beach.

Then there are the people who say whales are smart. If whales are so smart, then how come they still haven't learned to breathe under water like everything else that lives in the ocean? They've only had 40-million years to do it and they still don't have their act together. And now researchers are saying that they've found gay whales. Duh.

Is it too much to ask for a whale to save me for a change? When is the last time you procrastinated by putting up a stupid web page instead of studying and a whale saved your butt during the test? Never. In fact, when is the last time a whale did anything other than some stupid trick like jumping out of the water? Ooh, the whale can jump out of the water. Big deal. Try building an oil rig, then I'll be impressed."
- Slightly deviated from the words of The Great Maddox (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=whales_suck)

Bigot, moi? I demand satisfaction!:p

Seriously though, try living in suburban Essax for a month and guage how thoroughly deplorable and damnable the ingrates are, or, try being mugged twice and happy slapped four times in one annum, with a broken nose to boot. They deserve all the repression and scorn they accrue, degenerates.

what would you rather, that they were thrown into prison, or that they became useful members of society?

everyone deserves a second chance.

but we have got kind of off topic...

Yes.
Well they sure taste amazing. You might be on to something. Eat the Whales!

Exactly. You want to protest the Chinese government? Build homemade shaped charge anti vehicle mines. You want to commit suicide stand in front of a Chinese tank. Shit, that government kills people for just being members of a religious group. It's insane to think that they won't kill you for directly protesting the government.

Yeah, just like the Eastern Bloc killed all their protestors in the same year.

yeah, i believe they are, and i wish that everyone was vegetarian. but it wont happen, i know.

Then give up. We are, I am loathe to shatter you illusion, superior constituents in a food chain, we are compelled by our very indiosyncrasies to eat and slay animals, admittedly not to excess, and regulation is required, however it is incontravertibly malificient to be vegetarian, and a betrayal of human nature.

...we are compelled by our very indiosyncrasies to eat and slay animals...

Speak for yourself pal.

<snip>
Meanwhile, the whales say, "What have those damn humans ever done for us? They just kill us for our blubber and pollute our water! Who needs them? Certainly not us."

what would you rather, that they were thrown into prison, or that they became useful members of society?

everyone deserves a second chance.

but we have got kind of off topic...

One last point then, conscripted or imprisoned, since they will, for the most part, become benefit claiming leeches and unemployed sloths. Deterrence is always prefereable to rehabilitation.

"I just have one question about whales: who cares? All I ever hear are people pissing and moaning about saving the whales. Why save the whales? Screw them, what have they done for me? How would you like to go to the beach one day and read a sign that says "Sorry, all out of water." Not likely? Think again. Here's a little fact about whales that not many people know:

Whales are drinking all our water and eating our sailors.

When they're not busy ravaging the high seas, they're getting beached and rotting to death out of spite so nobody can enjoy the beach.

Then there are the people who say whales are smart. If whales are so smart, then how come they still haven't learned to breathe under water like everything else that lives in the ocean? They've only had 40-million years to do it and they still don't have their act together. And now researchers are saying that they've found gay whales. Duh.

Is it too much to ask for a whale to save me for a change? When is the last time you procrastinated by putting up a stupid web page instead of studying and a whale saved your butt during the test? Never. In fact, when is the last time a whale did anything other than some stupid trick like jumping out of the water? Ooh, the whale can jump out of the water. Big deal. Try building an oil rig, then I'll be impressed."
- Slightly deviated from the words of The Great Maddox (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=whales_suck)
:D

If you support a military by supplying them in the full knowledge of the way they operate, then your hands are not clean when it comes to their actions.



So? If you mine metals, knowing full well they can be fashioned into a tool for killing, your hands are not clean. If you buy paper knowing that creating it causes pollution and attributes to global warming and acid rain your hands are not clean. If you're a construction worker and don't spend every waking moment biulding a house, then some remains homeless beacuse of you , and your hand are not clean. If you stay alive, knowing full well that the exponential growth of the number of humans will cause gross overpopulation, you're hands are not clean




I'm just saying, you can make everyone's hands dirty if you really want to....

Speak for yourself pal.

I've been Veggie by force, it screwed me up completely, and frankly, its damn illogical.

F*ck Greenpeace and their damn hippies!

Meh, if the species being harpooned isn't endangered or a decent human I really don't give a crap. Bring on the whale burgers and Al Qaeda steaks.

F*ck Greenpeace and their damn hippies!

Wow!

I hope you didn't hurt yourself thinking that one up.

I've been Veggie by force, it screwed me up completely, and frankly, its damn illogical.

So when was the last time you killed an animal (insect kingdom excepted)?

I've been Veggie by force, it screwed me up completely, and frankly, its damn illogical.

How so?

they are amazing, precious, mysterious creatures just like everything else.

maybe. but then again - humans are more so, amking us more important. but fine - if those long haired idiots want to get harpooned, it's good news - there'll be less of 'em.

what, so you'd be cool if the japanese came along and harpooned them all?

yes. by atural selection, only thosee people who are not greenpeace members would reproduce, improving the gene pool.

yeah, i believe they are, and i wish that everyone was vegetarian. but it wont happen, i know.

why? meat tastes good and is neccessary in a complete diet - unless you wanna eat tons of rice and beans and still be undernourished.

no matter what model of the world you believe in (religious, secular), humans have the right to eat meat.

Then give up. We are, I am loathe to shatter you illusion, superior constituents in a food chain, we are compelled by our very indiosyncrasies to eat and slay animals, admittedly not to excess, and regulation is required, however it is incontravertibly malificient to be vegetarian, and a betrayal of human nature.

'admittedly not to excess' - thats why we will not give up. the west eats far too much meat and fish.

I'm just saying, you can make everyone's hands dirty if you really want to....

Yes, actions have results, and results carry responsibility. Well done.

Maybe their should be a whale breeding program? That way, the Norwegian and the Japanese can whale. we could still have regulations on other countries still and promote other whale breeding programs. Like panda breeding programs, only successful....

If i had the wings of a gull me boys
I'd spread them and fly home
I'd leave old greenland's icy grounds
For of white whales there is non
And the weather's rough and the winds do blow
And there's little comfort here
I'd sooner be snug in a deptford pub
A drinking up strong beer

Oh a man must be mad or want money bad,
To venture catching whales
For he may be drowned when the fish turns around
Or his head smashed by the tail
Though the work seems grand to the young green hand
In a very short burst he'll soon hear the curse
At the cry of there she blows

All hand on deck now for god's sake
Move briskly if you can
And he stumbles on deck both dizzy and sick
And for his life he don't give a damn
And high over head the great blue spread
And the mate gives the whale the iron
And soon they've blood in a purple flood
And from the spout hole comes a flame

These trials we bear for nigh four year
Till the flag she point for home
We're supposed for our toil to get a bonus on the oil
And an equal share of the bone
But we go to the agent to settle for the trip
And we find we've slaved away four years of our lives
And earned about three pounds ten

Somebody put their life on the line to try and protect something that they care deeply about? What an idiot!
Yes. Clearly they are so stupid for standing against something like that. I just wish everyone would lie down and accept bad things! /end sarcasim. Whaling sucks. Good on them for making a stand.

Maybe their should be a whale breeding program? That way, the Norwegian and the Japanese can whale. we could still have regulations on other countries still and promote other whale breeding programs. Like panda breeding programs, only successful....
Maybe we could breed the whales with the pandas and kill two birds with one stone. I mean killer whales have the same coloration as pandas. They're like the pandas of the sea except that they're not furry and they eat seals instead of bamboo. Oh, and they don't have a rudimentary thumb. Otherwise they're identical.

Meanwhile, the whales say, "What have those damn humans ever done for us? They just kill us for our blubber and pollute our water! Who needs them? Certainly not us."

yeah, but what are they gonna do? they're whales. we're humans

humans > whales.

we pwn them.

So when was the last time you killed an animal (insect kingdom excepted)?

Never, I happen to be a consumer, not producer.:p

Let us not fall into the trap of taking the mainly teenaged and politically entrenched (whether soft-left or soft-right) denizens of NS General as being fair samples of those exposed to the news.

Eh, I suppose this samle is a bit above the average.....well....the average american at leasst, I dunno about how intellegent British people are, on average...other countries too and stuff



"the west eats far too much meat and fish."

actually, we just eat far too much period.

if those long haired idiots want to get harpooned, it's good news - there'll be less of 'em.

youre exchanging pleasantries with a 'long haired idiot' now...

Yes. Clearly they are so stupid for standing against something like that. I just wish everyone would lie down and accept bad things! /end sarcasim. Whaling sucks. Good on them for making a stand.
I don't see anything wrong with whaling. It's been a ritual for many cultures and tribes for centuries. As long as it's regulated, it's fine.

If i had the wings of a gull me boys
I'd spread them and fly home
I'd leave old greenland's icy grounds
For of white whales there is non



True or false: the Greenland whale fisheries fell as a result of overfishing.*


* Yeah, I know, whales aren't technically fish, rather insects.

Maybe their should be a whale breeding program? That way, the Norwegian and the Japanese can whale. we could still have regulations on other countries still and promote other whale breeding programs. Like panda breeding programs, only successful....

The "breeding program" is supposed to be following the limits placed on catches as it is supposed to guide a substainable amount.

However, even with the limits set by the commission. Nobody could meet the numbers even if they do it 24/7 all year long.

Besides, it's little about culture and mostly about profit.

Bad business at that especially at their pace they are wiping out their sources.....

I don't see anything wrong with whaling. It's been a ritual for many cultures and tribes for centuries. As long as it's regulated, it's fine.
Ok. Maybe I should rephrase.. The way the Japanese do their whaling sucks.
I have no problems with tribes who do not indeed to rape the sea of any whale they see.

Never, I happen to be a consumer, not producer.:p

so that line about being 'compelled by our very indiosyncrasies to eat and slay animals' was just bullshit then?

yeah, but what are they gonna do? they're whales. we're humans

humans > whales.

we pwn them.
them whales are smarter than you think. They could ally with the rest of the fish world. Plankton and seaweed could stop making oxygen, fish could randomly nibble on people swimming in the ocean. Coral could learn to sprout legs and slice up anyone nearby, no telling what they could do!

so that line about being 'compelled by our very indiosyncrasies to eat and slay animals' was just bullshit then?

Nope, we have the producers and farnmers to perform such menial tasks in capitalism.

youre exchanging pleasantries with a 'long haired idiot' now...

Don't feed the trolls ;)

Yes, actions have results, and results carry responsibility. Well done.

Then what was the point of your statment? Your hand are dirty for something. I'm trying to say (and I believe the one you originally responded to was saying) don't keep sending the blame back to someone you wanna blame.


''Yes. Clearly they are so stupid for standing against something like that. I just wish everyone would lie down and accept bad things! /end sarcasim. Whaling sucks. Good on them for making a stand."

No see, there's standing in front of a logging mill, and standing in front of a bulldozer. Two kinds of stands one can make, only one warrants a "Good Job".

Don't feed the trolls ;)

oops i forgot :)

anyway bed now i have a full day of lectures tommorow.

I have never seen a good reason for whales. Sure, you might be "enlightened" and see all creatures as beautiful and wonderful, but you can't expect everyone else too follow your way of thinking.
There is nothing "moral" or "immoral" in whaling, a whale is just a (generally massive) collection of organs, nerves, fats and muscles covered with a skin. Once, this combination was a benefit for the whales survival, but now it makes them inconvenient to farm and a sought for food source by crazy Japanese people.
Face it, Greenpeace, whales are just lame.

Then what was the point of your statment? Your hand are dirty for something. I'm trying to say (and I believe the one you originally responded to was saying) don't keep sending the blame back to someone you wanna blame.

If I make bulldozers and sell them to a construction company who specialise, for example, in building orphanages, then it is a very different thing from selling them to a military who are known to carry out missile strikes on civilian areas and constantly tread the line between vaguely acceptable behaviour and that which receives international condemnation, no?

Nope, we have the producers and farnmers to perform such menial tasks in capitalism.

So, no single individual is compelled by their human nature to slay animals then?

Meh, if the species being harpooned isn't endangered or a decent human I really don't give a crap. Bring on the whale burgers and Al Qaeda steaks.

That's a good point - the thing is, not only are the Japanese hunting in an internationally recognised Whale Sanctuary (specifically set up to protect endangered species), the fin whale (which they are hunting) IS endangered.

And the whale meat/blubber processing plant is travelling with the killing ship.

So before slamming the Greenpeace protesters, ask yourself - who is breaking the law here? Who stands to profit? Why is the Australian Government wringing it's hands "Oh we can't do anything..." Let me assure you, if it was a poor Indonesian fisherman POACHING in our Northern Waters, they'd have the Navy out like a shot! Perhaps Greenpeace should smuggle some asylum seekers on board the whaling ship - the Aussie Govt would definitely bring out the big guns :sniper: for that!:headbang:

Or like standing in front of a tank in Tiannemen Square?

end of discussion.

end of discussion.

Hey, at least I didn't Godwin it.

Meh, if the species being harpooned isn't endangered or a decent human I really don't give a crap. Bring on the whale burgers and Al Qaeda steaks.
The species being harpooned almost certainly was endangered. I can't think of a single whale species that isn't endangered.

What I don't like about Greenpeace is that they have to resort to desperate attention seeking measures. Hanging around the whaling ship and protesting is perfectly fine, but other antics that they have used are just absolutely ignorant.

Instead of protesting just about the subject of whaling, Greenpeace has tried to do such things as stoping a Japanese sailor in need of surgery from docking and reaching hospital (it gives the impression that they're obsessed about animal rights while ignoring human rights), and trying to take advantage of the collision between the whaling ship and the Greenpeace ship are just disgraceful and not related to the subject of whaling at all (I don't care who's fault it was for the collision - but I care that Greenpeace made an ad hominem).

Because of these actions, Greenpeace has fulfilled the lefty, treehugging stereotype that environmental groups are associated with. Let's hope this reputation doesn't spread to other left-wing organisations.

What whales need to do is get mad!

I bet a couple whales could fuck one of those japanese fishing boats up but good. :)

Hey, at least I didn't Godwin it.

I am sure he would have a final solution for the protestors.

Greenpeace has fulfilled the lefty, treehugging stereotype that environmental groups are associated with. Let's hope this reputation doesn't spread to other left-wing organisations.

Does the standard definition of 'lefty, treehugging stereotype' include getting one of your ships blown up by the French secret service?

What whales need to do is get mad!
That plan didn't turn out so well for Moby Dick.

If I make bulldozers and sell them to a construction company who specialise, for example, in building orphanages, then it is a very different thing from selling them to a military who are known to carry out missile strikes on civilian areas and constantly tread the line between vaguely acceptable behaviour and that which receives international condemnation, no?

Okay....So it's the bulldozer making company's fault that people get killed in military missile strikes?




Cardikat, I really don't care about the whaling industry, and apparently these guys do, I don't have a problem with that, but could they not be stupid about how they express thier opinion?

Greenpeace has tried to do such things as stoping a Japanese sailor in need of surgery from docking and reaching hospital ...

Please get your facts right.

Greenpeace stated that, once the Japanese ship docked and unloaded the sick sailor, it would try to prevent the refuelling and the ship's return to whaling in the Southern Ocean. Others called for the Australian Government to detain the ship and call in the Japanese Ambassador. THAT'S why they didn't dock.

That plan didn't turn out so well for Moby Dick.

It did actually. It was Ahab that got the shitty end of the stick (along with all the rest of the crew of the Pequod save 'Ishmael').

Okay....So it's the bulldozer making company's fault that people get killed in military missile strikes?

No, but the company that produces a bulldozer and then sells it to such people are hardly blameless when such people use it in a similarly reckless manner.

No, but the company that produces a bulldozer and then sells it to such people are hardly blameless when such people use it in a similarly reckless manner.


Okay, now what's the point of that stament? The same is true for anyone...

Cardikat, I really don't care about the whaling industry, and apparently these guys do, I don't have a problem with that, but could they not be stupid about how they express thier opinion?

Well, Dinaverg, stupidity is in the eye of the beholder, methinks. There are many, many things happening in the world which I think are "stupid". But defining actions you don't agree with as "stupid" is ineffective. Calling someone's actions "stupid" automatically shuts them off from your point of view - they won't listen to you, regardless of what you say. Better to explain why you don't agree, put your point of view across than attack someone for theirs.

Okay, now what's the point of that stament? The same is true for anyone...

Not everybody sells to the Israeli military.

That plan didn't turn out so well for Moby Dick.

Didn't turn out too good for Captain Ahab, either. :p

It did actually. It was Ahab that got the shitty end of the stick (along with all the rest of the crew of the Pequod save 'Ishmael').
You want to spend your life with some crazy one-legged sailor trying to hunt you down so he can shove bits of pointy metal in your face. Yeah, sure, you can kill him, but in the process I suspect it would be something of an annoyance.

Please get your facts right.

Greenpeace stated that, once the Japanese ship docked and unloaded the sick sailor, it would try to prevent the refuelling and the ship's return to whaling in the Southern Ocean. Others called for the Australian Government to detain the ship and call in the Japanese Ambassador. THAT'S why they didn't dock.My apologies, you're correct. I will take this statement back.

However, I still believe that the ship had the right to refuel, as any other ship does. It's technically legal to do so, even if the reasons are flimsy. And detaining the ship is just preposterous. The ship has the legal right to whale.

You want to spend your life with some crazy one-legged sailor trying to hunt you down so he can shove bits of pointy metal in your face. Yeah, sure, you can kill him, but in the process I suspect it would be something of an annoyance.

Heck, they only got within striking distance of him once, and he slapped them hard enough to sink their toy boat. It was hardly as if the white whale was running scared.

Well, Dinaverg, stupidity is in the eye of the beholder, methinks. There are many, many things happening in the world which I think are "stupid". But defining actions you don't agree with as "stupid" is ineffective. Calling someone's actions "stupid" automatically shuts them off from your point of view - they won't listen to you, regardless of what you say. Better to explain why you don't agree, put your point of view across than attack someone for theirs.

There are many, many things happening in the world I think are stupid as well, but I have given reasons as to why I think these guys are stupid, It's not their point of view i have a problem with, it's the way they needlessly endangered themselves trying to get a point across, not what that point is, and if they don't listen to me because they feel insulted, they can go back out and get hit by the harpoon this time.



"Not everybody sells to the Israeli military."

Then blame the israli military then. I was trying to say "No one is blameless", you can't say that it's X's fault and not Y's fault because X keeps doing what it normally does, and Y goes where they don't normally and (almost) gets hurt.

Then what was the point of your statment? Your hand are dirty for something. I'm trying to say (and I believe the one you originally responded to was saying) don't keep sending the blame back to someone you wanna blame.


''Yes. Clearly they are so stupid for standing against something like that. I just wish everyone would lie down and accept bad things! /end sarcasim. Whaling sucks. Good on them for making a stand."

No see, there's standing in front of a logging mill, and standing in front of a bulldozer. Two kinds of stands one can make, only one warrants a "Good Job".Especially when the bulldozer is, quite obvioulsy, unable to see you standing in front of it, or hear you over the engine noise.

"Hey, I know! For the Next Event, let's stand under the wheel 18ft wheel of a peice of mining equipment and see if the driver notices us!"

Peh. http://www.somervillemejustice.com/rachels.html

My apologies, you're correct. I will take this statement back.

However, I still believe that the ship had the right to refuel, as any other ship does. It's technically legal to do so, even if the reasons are flimsy.

No worries HP. I'd disagree with you on the second point, however. It seems to me allowing the ship to refuel in an Australian port, when you KNOW it's going back out to undertake illegal activities in Australian waters, well... would you open the door for a burgler? (I know, a lame analogy, but...)

If I make bulldozers and sell them to a construction company who specialise, for example, in building orphanages, then it is a very different thing from selling them to a military who are known to carry out missile strikes on civilian areas and constantly tread the line between vaguely acceptable behaviour and that which receives international condemnation, no?

Sorry, I've decided to stop selling cheeseburgers to fat people because they annoy me.

What, how is that different? Catepillar is in no way responsible for what people do with their product, or responsible for when people jump in front of one.

It's not their point of view i have a problem with, it's the way they needlessly endangered themselves trying to get a point across, not what that point is...

Isn't that their choice? They are fully aware of the risks.

Dare I say, such extreme lengths wouldn't be necessary except many of us have short memories (out of sight, out of mind...) and the media won't report it unless it's exciting/dangerous/extreme, etc. Public opinion is a big driver of this issue (well, in Aus, anyway). Keep the issue in the media at nearly any cost?? Says a lot about the society... but that's another issue altogether...

Lol he almost got Harpowned!

No worries HP. I'd disagree with you on the second point, however. It seems to me allowing the ship to refuel in an Australian port, when you KNOW it's going back out to undertake illegal activities in Australian waters, well... would you open the door for a burgler? (I know, a lame analogy, but...)True, scientific whaling definitely has an ulterior motive, but what the Japanese whalers are doing is perfectly legal under IWC rules (to the best of my knowledge, in case I'm wrong again :headbang:). They are legally allowed to do this, no matter how fudged up their scientific research may be.

It's worrying, but ultimately the whalers aren't technically doing anything wrong. Morally they're committing a crime, but I don't really think that warrants what Greenpeace was trying to get the government to do.

It's the japanese whaling industry that's the stupid ones. They're driving tons of whale species to extinction. THey do need to be stopped, but it takes more than an annoying little raft.:sniper:

Isn't that their choice? They are fully aware of the risks.

Dare I say, such extreme lengths wouldn't be necessary except many of us have short memories (out of sight, out of mind...) and the media won't report it unless it's exciting/dangerous/extreme, etc. Public opinion is a big driver of this issue (well, in Aus, anyway). Keep the issue in the media at nearly any cost?? Says a lot about the society... but that's another issue altogether...

So, I'm fully aware than an actice stovetop will cause me pain with contact, that doesn't make it any more intelligent if I decide to put my hand on it. You know a safer way to get into the media? Talk to reporters. *gasp* An easy and safe way to do something? Never. If you really feel like staging an active protest, there's other ways and places to do it that gets you into the media without bringing your intellegence into question along with it.

i dont like the way you call greenpeace activists (like me, except i dont get the chance to try to save whales) stupid. i think they were putting themselves in danger in order to protect the whale. which is bravery in my eyes. well done to them.

I agree. I don't like being called stupid either.

It's the japanese whaling industry that's the stupid ones. They're driving tons of whale species to extinction. THey do need to be stopped, but it takes more than an annoying little raft.:sniper:

Gun smilie in the first post, Isn't there something about that here?

I agree. I don't like being called stupid either.


'Kay. I don't like being called kid. Doesn't make me any older.

True, scientific whaling definitely has an ulterior motive, but what the Japanese whalers are doing is perfectly legal under IWC rules (to the best of my knowledge, in case I'm wrong again :headbang:). They are legally allowed to do this, no matter how fudged up their scientific research may be.

It's worrying, but ultimately the whalers aren't technically doing anything wrong. Morally they're committing a crime, but I don't really think that warrants what Greenpeace was trying to get the government to do.


Sorry to burst your bubble, HP. I've just checked the IWC website (parts of which were a little out of date, but ended up helpful). The Japanese are whaling in the Southern Whale Sanctuary and whaling is prohibited. The Sanctuary has been in place since 1994 and is up for renewal again in 2014. So they are whaling illegally. For all the good it does us. And don't forget, they're also killing fin whales, an endangered species.:eek:

Greenpeace insists on an Inquisition-style forcing of their values on others just as execrable as the Spanish Church of the medieval era. [I]That[I] is what is so "stupid" about them. They are being just as bad if not worse than the organizations that they say are "oppressive" and "unfair."

So, I'm fully aware than an actice stovetop will cause me pain with contact, that doesn't make it any more intelligent if I decide to put my hand on it. You know a safer way to get into the media? Talk to reporters. *gasp* An easy and safe way to do something? Never. If you really feel like staging an active protest, there's other ways and places to do it that gets you into the media without bringing your intellegence into question along with it.

Ahhh, to be so innocent... trust me Dinaverg, if it bleeds, it leads.

You forget the objective of the anti-whaling fleet - to hinder/prevent whales being killed (as well as raise public awareness). Talking to reports might get in the papers (page 8, down the bottom??). Their activities have them on the front page with blaring headlines. Their actions achieve both objectives.

And, to be honest, your opinion on their intelligence is getting a little tired. YES, I know you think they're stupid. I GET IT. :headbang:

Heck, they only got within striking distance of him once, and he slapped them hard enough to sink their toy boat. It was hardly as if the white whale was running scared.
Yeah, but I still think it would be annoying. You break one boat, and then someone comes after you to avenge that boat, and then that breaks and someone eelse comes along, etc. Its like doing nice things for people, they just keep expecting you to perform and it gets tiring and dull so you kill them and bury them in the mountains somewhere.

Yeah, but I still think it would be annoying. You break one boat, and then someone comes after you to avenge that boat, and then that breaks and someone eelse comes along, etc. Its like doing nice things for people, they just keep expecting you to perform and it gets tiring and dull so you kill them and bury them in the mountains somewhere.

Sounds kind of fun to me. But then again, I like to tackle shrubbery. :p

Breaking little boats sounds fun too. *nod*

Sorry to burst your bubble, HP. I've just checked the IWC website (parts of which were a little out of date, but ended up helpful). The Japanese are whaling in the Southern Whale Sanctuary and whaling is prohibited. The Sanctuary has been in place since 1994 and is up for renewal again in 2014. So they are whaling illegally. For all the good it does us. And don't forget, they're also killing fin whales, an endangered species.:eek:
This is what I gathered from the IWC site:
At the 46th (1994) Annual Meeting the IWC adopted the Southern Ocean Sanctuary as another area in which commercial whaling is prohibited.

The ban only applies to commercial whaling, and not scientific whaling, which is what Japan is technically undertaking. Therefore, it's perfectly legal, although morally irresponsible, since the IWC has been urging Japan not to issue permits to whale in this area.

Ahhh, to be so innocent... trust me Dinaverg, if it bleeds, it leads.

You forget the objective of the anti-whaling fleet - to hinder/prevent whales being killed (as well as raise public awareness). Talking to reports might get in the papers (page 8, down the bottom??). Their activities have them on the front page with blaring headlines. Their actions achieve both objectives.

And, to be honest, your opinion on their intelligence is getting a little tired. YES, I know you think they're stupid. I GET IT. :headbang:


But then, you've gotta consider what the value of their actions really is, yeah they mess with some whalers and get a well-placed article, but It hurts there inflluence that they got the article for almost getting hit with a harpoon more than for the actual protest. An article on actions of "questionable intellegence" by a movement, isn't going to help 'em. It only make the ones that already support them either get louder or hng their heads in shame. Good press is good press, bad press is bad press.


''if it bleeds, it leads.''

Yeah....that's gonna hafta be less obscure.

''if it bleeds, it leads.''

First Law of news reporting.

"If it bleeds, it leads" refers to the prevalence of violence in the media and the fact that opening with a violent or tragic story keeps people from changing the channel.

First Law of news reporting.

"If it bleeds, it leads" refers to the prevalence of violence in the media and the fact that opening with a violent or tragic story keeps people from changing the channel.

Ah okay, thanks....although, what with all the stuff we have on the news now, I'd rather watch something non-violent for a change...

This is what I gathered from the IWC site:


The ban only applies to commercial whaling, and not scientific whaling, which is what Japan is technically undertaking. Therefore, it's perfectly legal, although morally irresponsible, since the IWC has been urging Japan not to issue permits to whale in this area.

Good point, HP. I stand corrected.

Ah okay, thanks....although, what with all the stuff we have on the news now, I'd rather watch something non-violent for a change...

True enough. But the news never opens up with a story about stray kittens being adopted and then into the devastating earhtquake that killed 2,000 people. :p

What's the big deal about whales anyway?
They are the very reason for which the sun rises, you illegitimate child!

True enough. But the news never opens up with a story about stray kittens being adopted and then into the devastating earhtquake that killed 2,000 people. :p

Wait, no one actually got hit by the harpoon...

Wait, no one actually got hit by the harpoon...

The whale did.

Save the whalers, eat the whales and to hell with (I.E. f***) Greenpeace!

I know it's not real PC but that's all I have to say about this for now. :)

People who put themselves in harm's way should accept responsibility for their actions. If you're going to try and play catch with a harpoon gun, don't blame the person trying to do their job for nearly hitting you. Know the expression "Don't cry over spilt milk"? How about "Don't cry over spilt milk when you threw the glass on the ground as hard as you could then stomped on it".

Greenpeace have lost track of the real issues, and all they've become is just a big media machine. They'll do anything, including risk their own members' safety, to get that tiny bit of news coverage. That is not activism, that's media-whoring. What use is trying to save the world if by your attempt you're only making it a worse place to live in anyway? Trying? Hitler was trying to make the world a better place too. (there really should be a hitler card smiley)


And think about this for a second: Some animals and plants eat meat. Is it fair to stop them from eating meat? Carnivores eat meat. Herbivores eat plants. Omnivores eat both. Guess what? We're animals too. Omnivores to be exact. Meat is an important component of our diet. *hands out iron pills to all the vegis/vegans* You'll be needing them, because you know so much better than "Mother Nature".

An elaboration of Japanese policy: The Truth Behind the Whaling Dispute (http://www.jfa.maff.go.jp/whale/document/whalebk.pdf)

they are amazing, precious, mysterious creatures just like everything else.

Last time I checked, the only thing Whales do is eat our sailors (Damn you, Mobey Dick!) and get beached.

Nuke the Whales!

youre exchanging pleasantries with a 'long haired idiot' now...

pleasantries? where?

The species being harpooned almost certainly was endangered. I can't think of a single whale species that isn't endangered.

it's called natural selection.

Hitler was trying to make the world a better place too. (there really should be a hitler card smiley)


I knew Godwin's Law would eventually apply to this debate, it always does... :D

An elaboration of Japanese policy: The Truth Behind the Whaling Dispute (http://www.jfa.maff.go.jp/whale/document/whalebk.pdf)

More info is always good. Thanks. I've only glimpsed over parts of the book, but I have one question. Please explain how killing endangered fin whales is sustainable?

The species being harpooned almost certainly was endangered. I can't think of a single whale species that isn't endangered.
In that case whaling should be stopped until the number of whales can increase enough to support the industry.

In that case whaling should be stopped until the number of whales can increase enough to support the industry.

In principle the correct notion, however it ought to be more gradual, such as drastically reduce (by 3 quaters) quotas per annum upon the average from the previous five years.

In principle the correct notion, however it ought to be more gradual, such as drastically reduce (by 3 quaters) quotas per annum upon the average from the previous five years.
Either way it will make whale burgers hard to come by. Oh well, at least Al Qaeda steaks are still cheap.

This is what I gathered from the IWC site:


The ban only applies to commercial whaling, and not scientific whaling, which is what Japan is technically undertaking. Therefore, it's perfectly legal, although morally irresponsible, since the IWC has been urging Japan not to issue permits to whale in this area.

Yes, it is technically legal because it is under the guise of 'scientific research'. However, I think most people understand that the 'scientific research' is actually research into how much money they can make by selling the meat on the Japanese market. It's bogus and everyone knows it, but closing that loophole is easier said than done.

...*hands out iron pills to all the vegis/vegans* You'll be needing them, because you know so much better than "Mother Nature".

You don't know much about diet, do you?

Because the whaler is supposed to shoot harpoons. That's his job. It's like blaming a bus driver if some idiot protesting greyhoud decides to step in front of a bus.

Should the whaler have really fired the harpoon if there was someone in the way or even near? Thats like a bus driver accelerating 'if some idiot protesting greyhoud decides to step in front of a bus.'

Couldn't they maybe protest at the whaling company HQ or base of operations, or whale blubber processing plant or something?

Would you have heard about it if they'd done that? It wouldn't be on the forums or wherever Lt_Cody found/saw/heard it. And they do, for instance they recentley occupied a piece of land in Japan or Korea, I can't remember which, that was going to be the location for a whale meat processing facility.


no matter what model of the world you believe in (religious, secular), humans have the right to eat meat.

What? no we don't. We have no right to do anything, we don't even have a right to exsist(tho' that is carrying the argument very far). What gives you that idea. Although im not a vegetarian, and I agree that it is certainley more sensible to have a well balanced diet than a sparse one, although this is possible with substitues like TVP, or Quorn.