NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.ctv.ca//servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060116/elxn_poll_060116/20060117?s_name=election2006&no_ads=
If the link doesn't work, tell me and I'll post it.
Anyway, as of January 16th the Tories have a 13 point lead over the Liberals (40%, 27%), and are within 3 seats of the 155 majority government mark. It is likely/possible that it will be a majority government. The point is the article I posted. 55% of Canadians are not bothered by a majority government, meaning the Tories' support is not likely to drop now that it's within majority range as people get freaked out. However, the percentage of people who would support a Tory majority in Alberta is 59%, and in Quebec it's 64%! What the hell is going on there? Quebec is apparently still up for grabs to the Tories?
Comment, please.

http://www.ctv.ca//servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060116/elxn_poll_060116/20060117?s_name=election2006&no_ads=
If the link doesn't work, tell me and I'll post it.
Anyway, as of January 16th the Tories have a 13 point lead over the Liberals (40%, 27%), and are within 3 seats of the 155 majority government mark. It is likely/possible that it will be a majority government. The point is the article I posted. 55% of Canadians are not bothered by a majority government, meaning the Tories' support is not likely to drop now that it's within majority range as people get freaked out. However, the percentage of people who would support a Tory majority in Alberta is 59%, and in Quebec it's 64%! What the hell is going on there? Quebec is apparently still up for grabs to the Tories?
Comment, please.

Torries are the Canadian conservative party yes, the opposition? I heard their party leader speak on Cspan over thanksgiving I'ld vote for them over the Liberal Party or the NDP.

I've read about this, I think. Is this where liberals are attacking a conservative candidate for being too pro-Bush with tactics that Bush used during both elections?

I've read about this, I think. Is this where liberals are attacking a conservative candidate for being too pro-Bush with tactics that Bush used during both elections?
No, not at all. There was a poll done asking Canadians whether they approved of a conservative majority government. 55% overall said yes, which is surprising in itself. But what's really surprising is that Quebec (64% Approval) approves of a Tory majority MORE than Alberta (59% approval) does! that's like the United States becoming Communist over night - totally bizarre.

I've read about this, I think. Is this where liberals are attacking a conservative candidate for being too pro-Bush with tactics that Bush used during both elections?Yes it is, and if the Liberals were a ship they would be the Titanic. It is all going gloriously wrong for Paul Martin, from scandals to infighting to backfiring ads, Mr Dithers is living up to his name, or down as the case may be. Mr Harper has learned his lesson from the last election and stayed on point with policy announcements and not risen to the baiting that the liberals have used to great effect in past elections. Be still my beating heart ,they are even winning support in Quebec, so much so that Bloc Quebecois have started taking them on instead of the Liberals. Oh, I am enjoying this immensely.It's still not in the bag yet but the writing is on the wall :) Bwa-ha -ha Die, Paul Martin ,die:)

Yes it is, and if the Liberals were a ship they would be the Titanic. It is all going gloriously wrong for Paul Martin, from scandals to infighting to backfiring ads, Mr Dithers is living up to his name, or down as the case may be. Mr Harper has learned his lesson from the last election and stayed on point with policy announcements and not risen to the baiting that the liberals have used to great effect in past elections. Be still my beating heart ,they are even winning support in Quebec, so much so that Bloc Quebecois have started taking them on instead of the Liberals. Oh, I am enjoying this immensely.It's still not in the bag yet but the writing is on the wall :) Bwa-ha -ha Die, Paul Martin ,die:)

Lol what a funny thing for an ontarian to say :)

I've read about this, I think. Is this where liberals are attacking a conservative candidate for being too pro-Bush with tactics that Bush used during both elections?
The conservatives are using the same sorts of ads.

It's part of why I really dislike both of them right now.


Go NDP, Go!

Go NDP, Go!
I agree, but unfortunately we're both dreaming; the NDP has gained .3% in the polls since last election. Bloody dismal.

No, not at all. There was a poll done asking Canadians whether they approved of a conservative majority government. 55% overall said yes, which is surprising in itself. But what's really surprising is that Quebec (64% Approval) approves of a Tory majority MORE than Alberta (59% approval) does! that's like the United States becoming Communist over night - totally bizarre.
Keep in mind that the sponsorship scandal greatly damaged the standing of the Liberal government in Quebec. It isn't too surprising. It doesn't mean that Quebeckers are going to vote for the Conservatives (far from it; the Conservatives will be lucky if they get a handful of seats, and may get none at all), but that they don't find a Conservative majority repugnant considering their other options, especially since it is numerically impossible for the Bloc to be anything but a minority party.

It should also be noted that, between the Liberals and the Conservatives, the Conservatives are more likely to work with the Bloc in Parliament, so that could also explain why Quebeckers approve of the Conservatives.

I agree, but unfortunately we're both dreaming; the NDP has gained .3% in the polls since last election. Bloody dismal.
Meh, polls don't generally mean too much.

It should also be noted that, between the Liberals and the Conservatives, the Conservatives are more likely to work with the Bloc in Parliament, so that could also explain why Quebeckers approve of the Conservatives.
How do you figure that? The Bloc are socially liberal, the conservatives (especially in their current incarnation) are far from it.

All I really hope is that Harper can't reverse the gay marriage legalization from last time. The rest can be fixed, but it will be awful to be the first country to make gay marriage illegal after making it legal.

It should also be noted that, between the Liberals and the Conservatives, the Conservatives are more likely to work with the Bloc in Parliament, so that could also explain why Quebeckers approve of the Conservatives.
Well yeah, they worked together last government (this government, technically, I suppose). Still weirds me out to find more of a Tory endorsement in Quebec than in Alberta.

How do you figure that? The Bloc are socially liberal, the conservatives (especially in their current incarnation) are far from it.

All I really hope is that Harper can't reverse the gay marriage legalization from last time. The rest can be fixed, but it will be awful to be the first country to make gay marriage illegal after making it legal.
What other choice would the Conservatives have? The Liberals will do nothing to make things easier for them and the NDP is farther from the Conservatives ideologically than the Bloc. Even if they have a majority, they're going to have to work with others, and the Bloc isn't nearly as socially liberal as it is sometimes portrayed to be; because its party platform is greatly based on Quebec's separation, it draws people from all across the political spectrum who believe in that ideal. And frankly, they're going to have to let the Bloc in because they need some representation in Quebec, especially if they get no seats in the province, which is entirely possible.

What other choice would the Conservatives have? The Liberals will do nothing to make things easier for them and the NDP is farther from the Conservatives ideologically than the Bloc. Even if they have a majority, they're going to have to work with others, and the Bloc isn't nearly as socially liberal as it is sometimes portrayed to be; because its party platform is greatly based on Quebec's separation, it draws people from all across the political spectrum who believe in that ideal. And frankly, they're going to have to let the Bloc in because they need some representation in Quebec, especially if they get no seats in the province, which is entirely possible.
Considering how much the conservatives have slammed the Bloc in the past when they took the opposing stance in votes... for instance, Harper was on about how gay marriage shouldn't be legal now because the vote was won by separatists... I don't think the Bloc will be too cooperative with him.

Considering how much the conservatives have slammed the Bloc in the past when they took the opposing stance in votes... for instance, Harper was on about how gay marriage shouldn't be legal now because the vote was won by separatists... I don't think the Bloc will be too cooperative with him.
I'm not saying they don't have their differences, but so do the Liberals and the NDP. The Bloc will cooperate with whoever is in charge because they want to have some say in how the government is run; the question is which party, Liberals or Conservatives, is more likely to court Bloc votes. The Liberals can suck up to the NDP if they want extra support; the Conservatives cannot. Their only other option is the Bloc. It's determined by the process of elimination.

Oh, yes, and the article gives other reasons, like the fact that the Conservatives are more friendly to provincial sovereignty in general than the Liberals, and thus Quebec is likely to get more autonomy out of them than out of the Liberals.

I'm not saying they don't have their differences, but so do the Liberals and the NDP. The Bloc will cooperate with whoever is in charge because they want to have some say in how the government is run; the question is which party, Liberals or Conservatives, is more likely to court Bloc votes. The Liberals can suck up to the NDP if they want extra support; the Conservatives cannot. Their only other option is the Bloc. It's determined by the process of elimination.
I know, but I really get the feeling that the Bloc might be unwilling to cooperate (they don't always cooperate with whoever is in charge) you forget, the Bloc will first and foremost, look out for the interests of Quebec. It doesn't matter if they have much of a say in parliment, so long as the interests they represent agree with the interests of the people of Quebec.

I really get the feeling that so many people support any sort of majority government because frequent elections suck ass.

Considering that Liberal campaign has been a total disaster, the Conservative party should be ashamed that it's not getting better results in the polls. Harper himself and his pathetic and flawed economic policy is what will probably keep them from a majority government.
Thankfully.

I know, but I really get the feeling that the Bloc might be unwilling to cooperate (they don't always cooperate with whoever is in charge) you forget, the Bloc will first and foremost, look out for the interests of Quebec. It doesn't matter if they have much of a say in parliment, so long as the interests they represent agree with the interests of the people of Quebec.

I really get the feeling that so many people support any sort of majority government because frequent elections suck ass.
Except that in order to represent those interests they naturally have to make nice with whoever is in charge. Sure, they can spout crap against the government all they want, but no one will listen, so that's not really helping Quebec, is it? If they want their constituents to get stuff, they have to play ball, and they know this. The problem is that the Liberals weren't too keen on playing with them because of the image working with separatists would give the party. The Conservatives, on the other hand, would be more desperate for allies than the Liberals, and the Bloc is the only party they could work with. Besides that, the Conservatives have very little presence in Quebec, so they need to make nice with the Bloc in order to have national representation.

Paul Martin was the over-eager author of his government's, not to mention his own personal political downfall from the moment he drew his long, cold sharp Tory-esque knife and stabbed Jean Chretien (remember Jean? Led the Grits to THREE back-to-back majorities a little while back?). Mr. Martin was very quick to pull a Brutus on ol' Jean. A little TOO quick, methinks. Thing is, Martin could've HAD the leadership of the Liberals.

But too much too soon was never quick enough for Paulie. I predict Mr. Martin will bow out rather than lead the Grits in Opposition. After all, he's accustomed to things being handed to him on silver platters. Regaining the PMO is too much work for a rich old man to dirty his hands with.

Enter Pierre Pettigrew, stage left.

I liked Cretien. He kept us out of Iraq, had either Martin or Harper been in charge at the time, we'd be in that mess right now.

Martin would not have agreed to the war in Iraq.

Martin would not have agreed to the war in Iraq.
Yes he would have. Don't you remember?

Remember what? :D

Remember what? :D
When they were discussing the possibility of sending canadian soliders to Iraq and Cretien was saying that we'd wait to see what the UN said and Martin and Harper were both gung ho to go anyways... Harper went as far as to deride our government in the american media, I think Martin just went on rants around here.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=464285

I'll put up a poll, just gimme some reasonable star candidates...

When they were discussing the possibility of sending canadian soliders to Iraq and Cretien was saying that we'd wait to see what the UN said and Martin and Harper were both gung ho to go anyways...No. You're interpretation of historical fact is mind boggling. If the UN gave the go ahead the war would've begun immediately and Canada not only would've supported it but they would have been ready for it. The UN didn't buy into the neocons' lies and Canada held back. Simple as that.

No. You're interpretation of historical fact is mind boggling. If the UN gave the go ahead the war would've begun immediately and Canada not only would've supported it but they would have been ready for it. The UN didn't buy into the neocons' lies and Canada held back. Simple as that.
But both Harper and Martin wanted to go to war anyways. I know why we didn't go to war, I wrote Cretien's office about it at the time. However, both politicians in question wanted to go anyways and badmouthed Cretien for not going. Martin just shut up about it a lot faster.

They didn't go for it because the UN didn't approve and there was no immediate humanitarian threat.

I am upset with the Conservatives, they are promising more spending then even the NDP, by the looks of things and will reduce some taxes while taking tax breaks away from others. The conservatives will win maybe a majority, but they are doing exactly what Chretien did.

He promised to take away the GST and honour the helicopter spending, but renegged on both.

If you are electing the Conservatives, until they own up to their deficit spending their promises are irresponsible.

I have voted NDP, they will not win the parliament, but like last election they will keep their promises. The liberals were renegging on their social spending promises of the election of 2004, but the NDP made them own up to their promises. I can only hope they do the same with the Conservatives though it may result in a spending deficit.

They didn't go for it because the UN didn't approve and there was no immediate humanitarian threat.
They didn't go for it because they weren't in power.

I liked Cretien. He kept us out of Iraq, had either Martin or Harper been in charge at the time, we'd be in that mess right now.Me too. Other than that, like it how he speaks, especially when he gets really mad. He sound like Donald Duck. :D

They didn't go for it because they weren't in power.
Chretien and Martin weren't in power in 2001-2003?

Chretien and Martin weren't in power in 2001-2003?
No, Martin wasn't in charge when it was time to get in on the ground floor of going to Iraq. By the time he got into power, things were already turning shitty there so he'd changed his mind and deceided to act like staying out of the war was what he had in mind the whole time.

Jean Chretien was an international embarassment, Iraq policy notwithstanding. A Corrupt, shameless embarassment.

Harper is simply the lesser of the many current evils facing the Canadian voters. Hell, he got my vote (advanced polling).

But both Harper and Martin wanted to go to war anyways. I know why we didn't go to war, I wrote Cretien's office about it at the time. However, both politicians in question wanted to go anyways and badmouthed Cretien for not going. Martin just shut up about it a lot faster.
That attitude was because they were both gunning for Chretien's place. It wasn't out of deeply held conviction in the part of Martin.

More like "they picked no so I'll say yes".

I'm not saying they don't have their differences, but so do the Liberals and the NDP. The Bloc will cooperate with whoever is in charge because they want to have some say in how the government is run; the question is which party, Liberals or Conservatives, is more likely to court Bloc votes. The Liberals can suck up to the NDP if they want extra support; the Conservatives cannot. Their only other option is the Bloc. It's determined by the process of elimination.
False.

Completely and utterly false.

Case in point: The Bloc didn't cooperate with the Martin government. Hell, they could have held the balance of power with the Liberals and get the same sweet deal the NDP got come budget time for Quebec. But no! They wanted to continue to whine and scream "not fair". Heck, they could have solved the fiscal imbalance they were so eager to point out by working with the government. Instead, they allied themselves with the Conservatives and brought down the government.

I see no reason to think that they won't do the same with the Conservative in charge. Remember, the goal of the Bloc is to demonstrate that Canada doesn't work. And what better way to do it than to have 3 elections in 2 years costing us millions and millions of dollars.

It's pretty obvious that if the Conservatives get close to a majority government they will lure some liberals to switch parties by promising them Cabinet Positions. I think that is pretty obvious. They could gain 3 maybe 4 seats by doing that.